Trade talk: club-by-club analysis

[bornadog]

Jon Pierik and Matt Murnane (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/trade-talk-clubbyclub-analysis-20111004-1l7gx.html)

Western Bulldogs

Trade potential: Brian Lake, Dylan Addison, Josh Hill, Andrew Hooper, Sam Reid, Christian Howard.
Draft picks to offer: 17, 36, 54, 72, 90.

In the market for: Big guys. Key forward, key defender and a ruckman.

What we think: Need to find goals now Barry Hall has gone and are expected to listen to offers for Brian Lake.

read the rest here (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/trade-talk-clubbyclub-analysis-20111004-1l7gx.html)

I wish they would stop banging on about Lake.

[LostDoggy]

Bah! Christian Howard. What the hell for??? Is he homesick?

[bornadog]

Bah! Christian Howard. What the hell for??? Is he homesick?

apparently

[bornadog]

Emma Quayle says on Twitter:

" Am hearing GWS is not interested in trading for players. They have a lot of NSW zone players and don't have many spots on their list left."

" Means the 17 yo mini draft will probably come down to draft picks. Lots to happen there next week."

[Mantis]

I wish they would stop banging on about Lake.

I would think that if a club came to us with a very good offer for Lake we would be crazy not to listen.

[Desipura]

I would think that if a club came to us with a very good offer for Lake we would be crazy not to listen.

Would you take Bower and a 3rd round pick for Lake?

[bornadog]

I would think that if a club came to us with a very good offer for Lake we would be crazy not to listen.

So after McCartney had a long discussion with Lake (I believe a couple of hours), and come out in public and say Lake is a wanted player, and he wants to keep playing with the Club, he would turn around and trade him:confused:

[Desipura]

So after McCartney had a long discussion with Lake (I believe a couple of hours), and come out in public and say Lake is a wanted player, he would turn around and trade him:confused:

I doubt he would as well. Its a clean slate when a new coach comes in as far as I am concerned, unless the players opently express that he is having a negative effect on the playing group.

[Mantis]

Would you take Bower and a 3rd round pick for Lake?

No.


So after McCartney had a long discussion with Lake (I believe a couple of hours), and come out in public and say Lake is a wanted player, and he wants to keep playing with the Club, he would turn around and trade him:confused:

Probably not, just saying that if Hawthorn or someone else offer up something to good to refuse then we should seriously look at it.

And I haven't heard Brian say he definitely wants to stay as yet.... but I haven't been paying much attention so he might have.

[LostDoggy]

I would think that if a club came to us with a very good offer for Lake we would be crazy not to listen.

And he would be crazy not to listen

[G-Mo77]

And he would be crazy not to listen

I've got to ask, is that you Brian? All you do is post on Brian Lake subjects on here and on BF. Hows the rehab going? :D



And I haven't heard Brian say he definitely wants to stay as yet.... but I haven't been paying much attention so he might have.

Pretty sure he hasn't said anything publicly only what McCartney said after their meeting. If a club came to us with a decent offer I'm sure we'd go into discussions. I can't imagine Lake having a problem with it either.

[Remi Moses]

Would you take Bower and a 3rd round pick for Lake?

I'm sure Carlton Would! Don't get the love for Bower on here!
He's an updated version of Craig Ellis, very uncoordinated and couldn't get a game.
Wouldn't think we're going to swap an AA defender for a Northern Bullants or Blues, whatever they're called

[Remi Moses]

And he would be crazy not to listen

Gotta love some people.
All of a sudden after an injury nightmare season we're flogging off class players!
McCartney's come out and reiterated that lake is staying and yet we're dumping him.

[LostDoggy]

Rediculous!!
Why would you trade the best back in the game?
Who we trading next Griffen!!?

[G-Mo77]

Rediculous!!
Why would you trade the best back in the game?
Who we trading next Griffen!!?

Griffen is not 30 years of age and coming from an injury plagued season. Who knows if Lake will fully recover or not?

I'm on Mantis' side on this one, we'd be crazy not to listen if someone came up with a good deal.

[bornadog]

Pretty sure he hasn't said anything publicly only what McCartney said after their meeting. If a club came to us with a decent offer I'm sure we'd go into discussions. I can't imagine Lake having a problem with it either.

That would make McCartney look pretty bad after what he said.

[bornadog]

Gotta love some people.
All of a sudden after an injury nightmare season we're flogging off class players!
McCartney's come out and reiterated that lake is staying and yet we're dumping him.

Yet some posters have a go at Ward and Harbrow for not being loyal.

[1eyedog]

Rediculous!!
Why would you trade the best back in the game?
Who we trading next Griffen!!?

Depends where we are at. Are we going to challenge for a top 4 spot over the next two years?

If yes, keep Lake.

If not, do we need to see if we can get any quality in for Lake from a club that needs a premier key back now, for our next tilt in 3-5 years?

This is a question.

I'm up for keeping Lake because I think he will make us a better side and hopefully put us in a position to at least play finals and give some of the younger players this exposure.

As for loyalty Lake was questioning whether he even wanted to be at club a few months ago.

[bornadog]

Depends where we are at. Are we going to challenge for a top 4 spot over the next two years?

If yes, keep Lake.

If not, do we need to see if we can get any quality in for Lake from a club that needs a premier key back now, for our next tilt in 3-5 years?

This is a question.

Lets get rid of anyone 28 to 30 years old like Richmond and Melbourne and see what happens then.:rolleyes:

This post is not directed at you, its directed at plenty of posters.

[Desipura]

Gotta love some people.
All of a sudden after an injury nightmare season we're flogging off class players!
McCartney's come out and reiterated that lake is staying and yet we're dumping him.
Who is flogging off players?
Personally I would only trade Lake if we got a very good deal that would benefit us long term.

[bornadog]

Who is flogging off players?
Personally I would only trade Lake if we got a very good deal that would benefit us long term.

Our second best player after Cooney:confused: We don't have many A graders.

[Desipura]

Our second best player after Cooney:confused: We don't have many A graders.

And for this reason I would not trade Lake unless we traded him for a potential A grader.

[bornadog]

And for this reason I would not trade Lake unless we traded him for a potential A grader.

ok, fair enough but that is a pipe dream. Everyone wants something good but not prepared to give up any one good.

[ledge]

Depends where we are at. Are we going to challenge for a top 4 spot over the next two years?

If yes, keep Lake.

If not, do we need to see if we can get any quality in for Lake from a club that needs a premier key back now, for our next tilt in 3-5 years?

This is a question.

I'm up for keeping Lake because I think he will make us a better side and hopefully put us in a position to at least play finals and give some of the younger players this exposure.

As for loyalty Lake was questioning whether he even wanted to be at club a few months ago.

You can love your club but not get on with certain people in it.
Plenty of players love a club but cant stay due to lots of different things, doesnt mean you arent loyal just means you probably exhausted all efforts to stay and be happy.

[Desipura]

ok, fair enough but that is a pipe dream. Everyone wants something good but not prepared to give up any one good.
This is true however if your premiership window is open and all you need is a fullback ie Hawthorn, you may be willing to part with a bit more.........

[G-Mo77]

That would make McCartney look pretty bad after what he said.

Not really. If all parties agree and are happy then why would it?


Lets get rid of anyone 28 to 30 years old like Richmond and Melbourne and see what happens then.

Not all our 28 - 30's are coming back from major injury concerns either. You can try and beat your positivity into anyone with out as much as you but it doesn't change the fact that Lake not recovering from all his injuries is a legitimate outcome for 2012 and beyond.

[chef]

Maybe we should trade Morris as he's going to have an injury interrupted season next year too:rolleyes:

[azabob]

Bah! Christian Howard. What the hell for??? Is he homesick?


apparently

Is this true?

[GVGjr]

I would think that if a club came to us with a very good offer for Lake we would be crazy not to listen.

Just about every player should be considered if someone else is prepared to pay over the odds.
Lake is no different but I do think it's going to be a hard deal to get done unless we are prepared to let him go well under his value.

[GVGjr]

Bah! Christian Howard. What the hell for??? Is he homesick?

He's just starting to hit his straps with us so he should want to stay. I don't think we should worry about if he is homesick or not.

[G-Mo77]

Maybe we should trade Morris as he's going to have an injury interrupted season next year too:rolleyes:

He possibly could come back worse off, who knows with those type of injuries but you know what, I'm 100% confident that Dale Morris will bust his arse and do absolutely everything possible to get back to his best and if he doesn't get there I'd give him another year to try again.

I don't have the same confidence in Lake nor the patience.

[1eyedog]

Lets get rid of anyone 28 to 30 years old like Richmond and Melbourne and see what happens then.:rolleyes:

This post is not directed at you, its directed at plenty of posters.

I understand what you are saying, but of all our 29 year olds, Lake probably has the most pull at the trade table. AA key backs are pretty hard to find and clubs might be willing to go that extra bit to secure the trade.

I would prefer Lake stay at the club purely because I love watching him play and as stated I think he will make us a better team, but I can understand why people are putting his name forward.

[Happy Days]

Apparently we're interested in Tom Gillies from Geelong.

[Remi Moses]

Apparently we're interested in Tom Gillies from Geelong.

God no, haven't we finished with the Geelong fringe player experiment yet?

[GVGjr]

Apparently we're interested in Tom Gillies from Geelong.

He hasn't done much. I understand the need to look at acquiring a tall defender but if we are interested in Gillies then we must want to use early picks on running players.

[Happy Days]

He hasn't done much. I understand the need to look at acquiring a tall defender but if we are interested in Gillies then we must want to use early picks on running players.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in Gillies, offers us nothing but depth for our depth players if they get called up. Just passing on what I've read.

Which of key backs or runners do you think is a more pressing need?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in Gillies, offers us nothing but depth for our depth players if they get called up. Just passing on what I've read.

Which of key backs or runners do you think is a more pressing need?

Key backs. Quality ones are rare.

I still believe the best strategy is to build a spine first. You can then 'add' a team around them. If you decide to try and pick up KPP's later, you throw yourself into a hole. It (probably) means you have a good midfield, and are able to beat 13-14 sides a year, but can't take that next step. It's then very difficult to secure KPP's as you don't have the earlier picks.

There's always a decent proportion of running players in every draft.

[Sedat]

God no, haven't we finished with the Geelong fringe player experiment yet?I don't mind pickng up fringe players so long as they fill a specific need and have untapped talent/upside. Carlton picked up a beauty from Geelong last year in Laidler.

[GVGjr]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in Gillies, offers us nothing but depth for our depth players if they get called up. Just passing on what I've read.

Which of key backs or runners do you think is a more pressing need?
I was aware that you were just reporting the reference in the paper.

We have many needs including a tall defender and a ruckman. If there is speculation we are looking to top up with someone like Gillies then I think that highlights we are placing a premium on getting running players early on.

[chef]

WESTERN BULLDOGS

HARD to know just how involved the Dogs will get.

Barry Hall is gone and Brian Lake has said he wants to remain.

But if another club came ultra-hard at Lake, would the Dogs release him given he probably only has three years left at most?

They are unlikely to win a flag in that period, so from a list-management strategy it wouldn't be the worst tactic.

Josh Hill will likely be traded or delisted, and Dylan Addison is crying out for more opportunities.

Sam Reid has been linked to GWS, but Christian Howard - raised as trade bait in The Age yesterday - ain't going anywhere.

He has shown encouraging form in the VFL and in small patches in the AFL, and the Dogs wouldn't be trading away a first-round pick.

The Dogs do need another tall forward given Jarrad Grant hasn't come on as he would have wanted.

They were mentioned as an interested party in the Jack Gunston discussion, but he wants to go to Hawthorn.

So is there anyone else out there to be a stop-gap until Liam Jones reaches his peak and Grant shows he will or won't make it?

The cupboard seems bare at the moment, but plenty more names will be flushed out in coming days.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/what-your-club-is-up-to-in-trade-week/story-fn6cisdj-1226159465055

[Hotdog60]

WESTERN BULLDOGS

HARD to know just how involved the Dogs will get.

Barry Hall is gone and Brian Lake has said he wants to remain.


The Dogs do need another tall forward given Jarrad Grant hasn't come on as he would have wanted.

They were mentioned as an interested party in the Jack Gunston discussion, but he wants to go to Hawthorn.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/what-your-club-is-up-to-in-trade-week/story-fn6cisdj-1226159465055

Grant maybe used back ( I think I read that here somewhere in another thread) so Panos can have a shot at FF, also if Tom Hill can keep his body in one piece he may get a taste this year. We still have some options up forward but we now lack the big hard body, we may see our forward structure go back to when Johnson was playing FF.

[Desipura]

He hasn't done much. I understand the need to look at acquiring a tall defender but if we are interested in Gillies then we must want to use early picks on running players.

I have not seen him play but can recall how he is a polular figure around the club. If McCartney rates him enough to want to pick him up, I am ok with that as he would know more than most if he could develop Tom into a regular senior player.

[always right]

Why are people giving any credit whatsoever to the article in The Age? It was filler stuff from two blokes with no particular insights just throwing up some random thoughts. Had it been in the Herald sun it would have been dismissed after the first post.

For a team in need of pace and good disposal there is no way we would be looking to trade Howard.

[LostDoggy]

Why are people giving any credit whatsoever to the article in The Age? It was filler stuff from two blokes with no particular insights just throwing up some random thoughts. Had it been in the Herald sun it would have been dismissed after the first post.

For a team in need of pace and good disposal there is no way we would be looking to trade Howard.

Wouldn't call Howard pacy.

[Mofra]

Yet some posters have a go at Ward and Harbrow for not being loyal.
Bingo - you can't expect loyalty if you're not prepared to show it.
I dare say the Crows' strategy of never offering anything more than a 1 year deal for their players turning 30 doesn't help their retention rate, which is a massive problem this end of season.

[Greystache]

Bingo - you can't expect loyalty if you're not prepared to show it.
I dare say the Crows' strategy of never offering anything more than a 1 year deal for their players turning 30 doesn't help their retention rate, which is a massive problem this end of season.

We've shown plenty of loyalty, it hasn't done us any good. We keep veterans on past their used by dates, we empower players to the point they're almost running the on field side of the club (see Ward playing round 24), and we consider the players feelings in almost every decision we make. Yet two new clubs with big cheque books come into the league and our two brightest young stars can't sign quick enough. We're the only club to have lost two young players to expansion clubs, our loyalty hasn't made one iota of difference to obtaining the loyalty of our players.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

We've shown plenty of loyalty, it hasn't done us any good. We keep veterans on past their used by dates, we empower players to the point they're almost running the on field side of the club (see Ward playing round 24), and we consider the players feelings in almost every decision we make. Yet two new clubs with big cheque books come into the league and our two brightest young stars can't sign quick enough. We're the only club to have lost two young players to expansion clubs, our loyalty hasn't made one iota of difference to obtaining the loyalty of our players.

Not true, Adelaide lost Bock & Davis !!!

[LostDoggy]

Bock wasn't a baby

[Greystache]

Not true, Adelaide lost Bock & Davis !!!

Nathan Bock's about to turn 29.

[jazzadogs]

I have not seen him play but can recall how he is a polular figure around the club. If McCartney rates him enough to want to pick him up, I am ok with that as he would know more than most if he could develop Tom into a regular senior player.
I believe I'm some sort of distant relation to Tom, so watched his first few games fairly closely. From what I saw he was actually quite strong with his defensive side (which you would expect to improve, as these judgements were last season) but his kicking may have let him down at times.

Scarlett, Taylor and recently Lonergan are a pretty tough bunch of KP defenders to kick out of a side, and I think he's come close in occasion. If we can get him for a late draft pick, when we would be drafting a speculative tall anyway, I don't see why not.

[bornadog]

Emma Quayle tweet:

Hearing that the Dogs are very keen on Gunston & that the Crows would like to deal with them. Can they twist his arm?

[LostDoggy]

Emma Quayle tweet:

Hearing that the Dogs are very keen on Gunston & that the Crows would like to deal with them. Can they twist his arm?

Read Crows want Howard.

[bornadog]

Read Crows want Howard.

Would you take it?

[LostDoggy]

Would you take it?

I have no idea on Gunston. As for Howard, he'll never be his draft place worth. If he is homesick for Adelaide(hehe) then I would cut our losses.

[LostDoggy]

I have no idea on Gunston. As for Howard, he'll never be his draft place worth. If he is homesick for Adelaide(hehe) then I would cut our losses.

What's wrong with Walkerville?

[LostDoggy]

What's wrong with Walkerville?

Full of coneheads. Is that where I stayed?

[Rocco Jones]

I have no idea on Gunston. As for Howard, he'll never be his draft place worth. If he is homesick for Adelaide(hehe) then I would cut our losses.

Me too.

The criticise I hear about Gunston is that he isn't a genuine KP forward. I agree with this but he can still be valuable. Another one I hear is we have Panos. Panos is far from guaranteed to make it and if they both make become quality players than I am sure it's a problem we can live with.

I think Gunston is a safer bet of making it than Howard and I see their potential upside as pretty similar. As Chops says, if he is homesick I would definitely take it.

[The Coon Dog]

I would be surprised if Howard cites homesickness as a reason for wanting out.

You get the feeling it might have been brought on by some sort of approach from the licorice allsorts! :rolleyes:

[OLD SCRAGGer]

IF we offerd GWS : San Reid, Josh Hill & Brennan Stack for Jager O'Mera do you think GWS would take that? I'd LOVE to get O'mera

[Rocco Jones]

IF we offerd GWS : San Reid, Josh Hill & Brennan Stack for Jager O'Mera do you think GWS would take that? I'd LOVE to get O'mera

Ahh the classic a whole bunch of crap we don't want for something we really want.

I have a heap of clothes I am about to drop off at a Salvo's bin, reckon if I go to Myer they will give me a really nice jumper or pair of jeans for them?

[Remi Moses]

Yet some posters have a go at Ward and Harbrow for not being loyal.

Totally honest Brian hasn't done himself any favours, mind you neither did Brett Montgomery.
Add to the mix the inflammatory comments from his manager.
The club's got a salary cap and has a duty to manage the list in it's parameters, yes we all love loyality but let's be honest in this industry, 30 is Paramount to 50 in the real world.

[bornadog]

Totally honest Brian hasn't done himself any favours, mind you neither did Brett Montgomery.
Add to the mix the inflammatory comments from his manager.
The club's got a salary cap and has a duty to manage the list in it's parameters, yes we all love loyality but let's be honest in this industry, 30 is Paramount to 50 in the real world.

Fletcher says hello

[Mantis]

Fletcher says hello

Does he?

His body shape is a little different to Lake's.

[bornadog]

Does he?

His body shape is a little different to Lake's.

Hello from Fletcher:)

[LostDoggy]

Full of coneheads. Is that where I stayed?

Yep.

[Topdog]

IF we offerd GWS : San Reid, Josh Hill & Brennan Stack for Jager O'Mera do you think GWS would take that? I'd LOVE to get O'mera

Why don't we just offer to kick Kevin Sheedy in the nuts in exchange for O'mera?

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Ahh the classic a whole bunch of crap we don't want for something we really want.

I have a heap of clothes I am about to drop off at a Salvo's bin, reckon if I go to Myer they will give me a really nice jumper or pair of jeans for them?

No need to be a total smart arse, it was just a question...:mad:

[G-Mo77]

I would be surprised if Howard cites homesickness as a reason for wanting out.

You get the feeling it might have been brought on by some sort of approach from the licorice allsorts! :rolleyes:

Disappointing. :(

I know a lot aren't that keen on Howard, I like him and think he has a very bright future.


I think Gunston is a safer bet of making it than Howard and I see their potential upside as pretty similar. As Chops says, if he is homesick I would definitely take it.

Would Adelaide take it though?

[Mofra]

We've shown plenty of loyalty, it hasn't done us any good. We keep veterans on past their used by dates, we empower players to the point they're almost running the on field side of the club (see Ward playing round 24), and we consider the players feelings in almost every decision we make. Yet two new clubs with big cheque books come into the league and our two brightest young stars can't sign quick enough. We're the only club to have lost two young players to expansion clubs, our loyalty hasn't made one iota of difference to obtaining the loyalty of our players.
That depends on your definition of shown plenty of loyalty - that's an opinion.
In any case, we have been far closer to a grand final berth than most sides over the past few years so we can't have been too far off striking the right balance.

I would suggest the club that has shown the least amount of loyalty to players is the Adelaide Crows - and they're struggling with an exodus.

The point still stands - you either preach loyalty and show it, or you don't preach it and don't show it. You can't have it both ways.

[EasternWest]

IF we offerd GWS : San Reid, Josh Hill & Brennan Stack for Jager O'Mera do you think GWS would take that? I'd LOVE to get O'mera


Ahh the classic a whole bunch of crap we don't want for something we really want.

I have a heap of clothes I am about to drop off at a Salvo's bin, reckon if I go to Myer they will give me a really nice jumper or pair of jeans for them?


No need to be a total smart arse, it was just a question...:mad:

The thing is it's the same question that's posted on here and every footy forum at this time of year, and the crux of what Rocco is saying is true. Look at your question again, and see it from the other side. Would you want three flaky (for various reasons) players for a young potential gun? Of course not. Of course you'd love to get him for those three, so would I.

I'd love to offer the Hawks Addison, Minson and Hooper for Buddy too. I wonder what Rocco's thoughts are about that?

Don't take Rocco's response too personally. He might feel bad about it and give you a free early pass in the sweep next year. In fact, by way of retribution, I order Rocco to do this for you. He usually listens to me. I think he fears me.

[GVGjr]

IF we offerd GWS : San Reid, Josh Hill & Brennan Stack for Jager O'Mera do you think GWS would take that? I'd LOVE to get O'mera

My understanding is that the mini draft works a funny way. Basically GWS field all the offers and then they allocate the draft order based on who gave them the best deal. They very well might accept a combination of draft picks and players from us but it might not guarantee us the player we want.
We might get pick 3 or 4 rather than 1.

[Remi Moses]

Fletcher says hello

One player over 30.Facts are 29 and over you're not going to get a long contract.
Fletcher, Michael Tuck and Robert Harvey and a few others are exception to the rule, you get old quickly playing this sport.

[Remi Moses]

Why are people giving any credit whatsoever to the article in The Age? It was filler stuff from two blokes with no particular insights just throwing up some random thoughts. Had it been in the Herald sun it would have been dismissed after the first post.

For a team in need of pace and good disposal there is no way we would be looking to trade Howard.

All the credibility of a Jon Ralph special in the Hun.
More gold from Ralph malph Addam Maric is leaving Adelaide!
Playing for Melbourne and Adelaide takes a special talent.
Do agree though the names thrown up with some of the clubs won't see the light of day.

[Pickenitup]

I would like us to look at the following players
Clinton Young
Brent Macaffer
I think these two could really help us Young Is A Great Kick who breaks the lines
Macaffer was great for the Pies Last year and would help with our Forward press

[azabob]

I would like us to look at the following players
Clinton Young
Brent Macaffer
I think these two could really help us Young Is A Great Kick who breaks the lines
Macaffer was great for the Pies Last year and would help with our Forward press

It appears as though Mcaffer is on offer to whoever wants him.

[westdog54]

Ahh the classic a whole bunch of crap we don't want for something we really want.

I have a heap of clothes I am about to drop off at a Salvo's bin, reckon if I go to Myer they will give me a really nice jumper or pair of jeans for them?

Harsh call but good call.

Is that Barry Morgan from the world of organs in your Avatar?

[kruder]

I have no idea on Gunston. As for Howard, he'll never be his draft place worth. If he is homesick for Adelaide(hehe) then I would cut our losses.

I disagree on Howard. For me he shows all the signs of an excellent AFL player.

I think next year will be the year he cements himself.

[divvydan]

Late August we had 7 pups and Williams sign new contracts but Howard wasn't one of them. It does have me a little concerned that they all did except him (and obv Ward).

[Maddog37]

Late August we had 7 pups and Williams sign new contracts but Howard wasn't one of them. It does have me a little concerned that they all did except him (and obv Ward).

When you put it like that it screams that something is on the nose.

[Rocco Jones]

Harsh call but good call.

Is that Barry Morgan from the world of organs in your Avatar?

The one and only.

[LostDoggy]

Why don't we just offer to kick Kevin Sheedy in the nuts in exchange for O'mera?

LMAO! We'd need to offer someone like Roughead or Wood and a decent draft pick to get close to O'meara I suspect. Given they've already stolen Ward can we just go kick Sheedy in the nuts anyway, and then forget about trading with these bandits.

[BulldogBelle]

Late August we had 7 pups and Williams sign new contracts but Howard wasn't one of them. It does have me a little concerned that they all did except him (and obv Ward).


Didn't Howard share a house with Ward and Reid?

Sounds like the cancer has spread

If he doesn't want to be at the club - and cant be convinced under any circumstances to stay in Melbourne, then trade him

So we would be trading pick #15 in the 2009 draft with 6 games under his belt directly for pick #29 in the same draft with 14 games under his belt

Fair trade?

[divvydan]

I should say I have no idea about where Howard's head is at and haven't seen anything to suggest he wants out, just a little concerned that he didn't sign up when his peers did.

[Maddog37]

Didn't Howard share a house with Ward and Reid?

Sounds like the cancer has spread

If he doesn't want to be at the club - and cant be convinced under any circumstances to stay in Melbourne, then trade him

So we would be trading pick #15 in the 2009 draft with 6 games under his belt directly for pick #29 in the same draft with 14 games under his belt

Fair trade?

Howard was a speculative pick at 15 and pick29 would be a more realistic value for him and even that could be viewed as generous if I recall correctly. Others will know better than me but we had to beat the Crows to him hence why we got him so early.

[Mantis]

I disagree on Howard. For me he shows all the signs of an excellent AFL player.

I think next year will be the year he cements himself.

All the signs?

His inability to compete in the air has to be a massive concern.

[LostDoggy]

I think we all agree we will not challenge for the premiership in the next three years, so why not give the list we have a chance to develop.Apart from the obvious delistings/trades Hill,Prato,Ried,Johannisson,Barlow,Addison,Hooper,Mulligan & maybe Stack.
What i can see not much on offer & the half decent players usually pick where they want to go.
I believe we should put faith in our recruitment & go for draft picks.
IMO some supporters are getting a bit carried away if it wasn't for injuries to key players we would of made & been competitive in the eight this year, but the bright side of that is we got games into young players which would not of got a look in.
LETS NOT THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER! Howard,Lake,Gia!? C'MON!

[Greystache]

I think we all agree we will not challenge for the premiership in the next three years, so why not give the list we have a chance to develop.Apart from the obvious delistings/trades Hill,Prato,Ried,Johannisson,Barlow,Addison,Hooper,Mulligan & maybe Stack.
What i can see not much on offer & the half decent players usually pick where they want to go.
I believe we should put faith in our recruitment & go for draft picks.
IMO some supporters are getting a bit carried away if it wasn't for injuries to key players we would of made & been competitive in the eight this year, but the bright side of that is we got games into young players which would not of got a look in.
LETS NOT THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER! Howard,Lake,Gia!? C'MON!

What have you seen in one season to suggest Johannissen is an obvious delisting?

[Sedat]

All the signs?

His inability to compete in the air has to be a massive concern.
Lacks a yard of pace as well, which will make it difficult to see him establish a place in our defensive unit. I was impressed by his competitiveness at ground level this season but his leg speed and inability to compete aerially will make it tough for him to become the rebounding defender we drafted him for - you could get by without one of these attributes down back (ie: Davis, Yarran) but not both.

I think he can have a solid AFL career, just not as a rebounding defender.

[anfo27]

I would like us to look at the following players
Clinton Young
Brent Macaffer
I think these two could really help us Young Is A Great Kick who breaks the lines
Macaffer was great for the Pies Last year and would help with our Forward press

no thankyou to both. Young is always injured and Macaffer is a terrible kick for goal and i'd rather try to draft some talented kids instead of picking up ok players that will never be stars, we have too many of those players already.

[bornadog]

Lacks a yard of pace as well, which will make it difficult to see him establish a place in our defensive unit. I was impressed by his competitiveness at ground level this season but his leg speed and inability to compete aerially will make it tough for him to become the rebounding defender we drafted him for - you could get by without one of these attributes down back (ie: Davis, Yarran) but not both.

I think he can have a solid AFL career, just not as a rebounding defender.

The funny thing Howard doesn't see himself as a defender, he prefers to play up the ground.

[LostDoggy]

Only player that seems to be getting publicity about the upcoming draft and even trade week is Jaeger O'meara, and how clubs will go after him.

Im confused as to why GWS would give him up that easily? Is he no good? They dont rate him? They would prefer the experience to the young "gun"?

[Greystache]

Only player that seems to be getting publicity about the upcoming draft and even trade week is Jaeger O'meara, and how clubs will go after him.

Im confused as to why GWS would give him up that easily? Is he no good? They dont rate him? They would prefer the experience to the young "gun"?

They're not allowed to keep any of the 17 year olds, they have to ontrade them to other clubs.

[bornadog]

They're not allowed to keep any of the 17 year olds, they have to ontrade them to other clubs.

Why have they got them in the first place

[LostDoggy]

Why have they got them in the first place

Im assuming its a part of their compensation? Heres a bunch of 17 year olds, if any club wants one they gotta give you one of their picks?

[Mantis]

The funny thing Howard doesn't see himself as a defender, he prefers to play up the ground.

Even so he seriously needs to improve his ability to compete in the air... it is a real weakness of his at present.

[bornadog]

Even so he seriously needs to improve his ability to compete in the year... it is a real weakness of his at present.

Not sure how he can do that. Harbrow was similar, and tried to improve in this area but just didn't have the leap. Some guys are very strong in the air, even for their size - Cross, Brad Johnson etc. Maybe its a training thing, but agree currently a weakness.

[divvydan]

Im assuming its a part of their compensation? Heres a bunch of 17 year olds, if any club wants one they gotta give you one of their picks?

Yes, GWS has access to up to 4 picks in total over this year and next. What happens is players who are Jan-Apr 1994 (1995 for next year's one) can nominate to be part of this mini-draft. GWS can then take bids from clubs and allocate pick #1 to the best offer. Once pick #1 is done, clubs can bid for pick #2, #3, #4.

It's likely that GWS will only offer two picks up this year and next for 4 in total.

With regards to O'Meara, he's one of the approx 25 or so players who have nominated to go into this mini-draft and is generally expected to be the player any club will choose if they have the #1 pick in the mini-draft.

GWS don't decide which players can nominate for the mini-draft or which players a club can draft from those that nominate. All they can do is allocated picks #1-4 based on who gives them the most.


The bidding must be finalised by Thursday of trade week and the draft will take place at the end of trade week.

Those players that nominated are otherwise eligible for the 2012 National Draft. If a club drafts a player through this "mini-draft" they cannot play AFL until 2013 (2014 for those done by the same method next year).

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Koby Stevens rumoured to want out of WCE for more opportunity.

If true, would we be interested? I know we don't need another inside midfielder at present, however, I rate him. I'm not convinced on Wallis, we've lost Ward and Cross has got a year (two max) left.

[LostDoggy]

Koby Stevens rumoured to want out of WCE for more opportunity.

If true, would we be interested? I know we don't need another inside midfielder at present, however, I rate him. I'm not convinced on Wallis, we've lost Ward and Cross has got a year (two max) left.
I thought I was being harsh on Howard. I would give Wallis a couple of year before writing him off.
I also thought we were off loading inside mids?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I thought I was being harsh on Howard. I would give Wallis a couple of year before writing him off.
I also thought we were off loading inside mids?

Who said they were writing off Wallis? I said I wasn't convinced he'd make it, and based on his first season, it's a fair assessment.

We're off loading average inside mids, but I would think there's always a place for quality. As I said, with Cross nearing the end, Ward gone, Cooney injured - we could perhaps do with another ball winner. Stevens is a nice size and has decent skills too.

[kruder]

All the signs?

His inability to compete in the air has to be a massive concern.

Excuse I didn't realise we were talking about a KPP. That would be the least of my concerns as I see him as a midfielder.

[kruder]

Lacks a yard of pace as well, which will make it difficult to see him establish a place in our defensive unit. I was impressed by his competitiveness at ground level this season but his leg speed and inability to compete aerially will make it tough for him to become the rebounding defender we drafted him for - you could get by without one of these attributes down back (ie: Davis, Yarran) but not both.

I think he can have a solid AFL career, just not as a rebounding defender.

Howard slow are u kidding?

[LostDoggy]

Howard slow are u kidding?

How are you Mrs Howard?
You need to take those rose colored glasses off.

[kruder]

Soyou think Howard is slow chops? Or are u just siding with other team of century posters for the sake of it?

[Happy Days]

Soyou think Howard is slow chops? Or are u just siding with other team of century posters for the sake of it?

Dude, Howard's not quick. It's not one of those subjective things with two sides to it, it just is.

[LostDoggy]

Soyou think Howard is slow chops? Or are u just siding with other team of century posters for the sake of it?

No one said he was slow, said he lacks a yard

[ledge]

No one said he was slow, said he lacks a yard

I am :confused:

[KT31]

No one said he was slow, said he lacks a yard

Isn't it the same thing, Chops ?
Unless you meant in other departments.;)

[LostDoggy]

Isn't it the same thing, Chops ?
Unless you meant in other departments.;)

If there were only 2 speeds.

Fast average slow I suppose.

[Greystache]

I would've thought there's some middle ground between slow and quick.

Cross, Gia, and Higgins are slow

Cooney, Griffen, and Tutt are quick

Boyd, Ward, and Howard are neither slow or quick.

[Desipura]

I would've thought there's some middle ground between slow and quick.

Cross, Gia, and Higgins are slow

Cooney, Griffen, and Tutt are quick

Boyd, Ward, and Howard are neither slow or quick.

I would put Higgins in the neither slow or quick category although a few seasons back he had a turn of speed over the first 5 metres with ball in hand.

[westdog54]

The one and only.

The video from his Spicks and Specks appearance is one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

[BulldogBelle]

I would put Higgins in the neither slow or quick category although a few seasons back he had a turn of speed over the first 5 metres with ball in hand.


Back when he was playing in the forward line, Higgins used to look like Carl Lewis at times when he looks like he was about the receive the ball from a teammate and a goal scoring opportunity may arise

[1eyedog]

Excuse I didn't realise we were talking about a KPP. That would be the least of my concerns as I see him as a midfielder.

You need a well-rounded skill set to survive in the modern game. KPs are expected to apply more defensive pressure at ground level and mids are expected to create contests on the deck and in the air. Howard is like a balloon in the air.


Howard slow are u kidding?

He's about as fast as Dal Santo. Is that fast?


I would've thought there's some middle ground between slow and quick.

Cross, Gia, and Higgins are slow

Cooney, Griffen, and Tutt are quick

Boyd, Ward, and Howard are neither slow or quick.

Is Tutt quick is he? Cool!


Back when he was playing in the forward line, Higgins used to look like Carl Lewis at times when he looks like he was about the receive the ball from a teammate and a goal scoring opportunity may arise

And that is why he should be played forward, because when in form and injury free, he is just so good at it.

[LostDoggy]

Back to the topic of Trading..can't believe they didn't cut trade week down this year. Its a longgg week with majority of deals done Weds-Friday just shorten it to 3 days! Now they apparently have til next Monday 2pm ?

Makes for one very non-productive week at work!

What deals are expected so far? And will any be put through Monday or am I dreamin'? From what I hear;

Tippett now not leaving Adelaide?
McGuane linked to Brisbane
Mitch Clark to Perth
Gunston to <insert Melbourne club>

Going to be one of those lackluster drafts with a couple of smaller names going to and fro it seems.

[Greystache]

Is Tutt quick is he? Cool!

Yep, he's about as quick as we have. He's also a long kick.

[G-Mo77]

Latest Tweet from Emma Quayle

So the #tradeweek craziness starts tomorrow. Dogs fans... GWS isn't very interested in trading for Sam Reid, can't see that happening.

[BulldogBelle]

Latest Tweet from Emma Quayle

So the #tradeweek craziness starts tomorrow. Dogs fans... GWS isn't very interested in trading for Sam Reid, can't see that happening.


Is Reid out of contract?

We dont get compensated if he is out of contract and is selected by GWS in the Pre Season Draft

[G-Mo77]

Is Reid out of contract?

We dont get compensated if he is out of contract and is selected by GWS in the Pre Season Draft

Pretty sure he is.

[LostDoggy]

Is Reid out of contract?

We dont get compensated if he is out of contract and is selected by GWS in the Pre Season Draft

They can't take more then one player from any club unless the club agrees to trade the player in this case Reid or the club delist the player

[BulldogBelle]

GWS isn't very interested in trading for Sam Reid, can't see that happening.

Maybe Sheedy gave Emma Q that information - reality is probably the opposite to that statement

[mighty_west]

If I was a betting man, Malcolm Lynch will be a Hawk tomorrow.

[azabob]

If I was a betting man, Malcolm Lynch will be a Hawk tomorrow.

Wonder what they will give GWS?

[bornadog]

If I was a betting man, Malcolm Lynch will be a Hawk tomorrow.

Good luck to Malcolm, always thought he had the talent but wasn't right mentally. He showed this year that if he knuckles down he can play good football and was very impressive in the Grand Final.

[The Underdog]

Not sure if anyone has seen this link or posted it but :eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/playerprofile/raphaelclarke/tabid/9150/playerid/14471/category/rookie/season/2011/selected/bio/default.aspx

[EasternWest]

Not sure if anyone has seen this link or posted it but :eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/playerprofile/raphaelclarke/tabid/9150/playerid/14471/category/rookie/season/2011/selected/bio/default.aspx

Dog I hope not. He's an ordinary footballer with less peripheral vision than Farren Ray. It still stuns me that he is an AFL player.

[chef]

Not sure if anyone has seen this link or posted it but :eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/playerprofile/raphaelclarke/tabid/9150/playerid/14471/category/rookie/season/2011/selected/bio/default.aspx

You are able to create that yourself(there was a Goddard one getting around too)

[Greystache]

Not sure if anyone has seen this link or posted it but :eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/playerprofile/raphaelclarke/tabid/9150/playerid/14471/category/rookie/season/2011/selected/bio/default.aspx

I wouldn't take any notice of it, you can manipulate the code on the AFL clubs websites to make any listed play appear to be on the website for any club.

Like this

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/playerprofile/scottpendlebury/tabid/9150/playerid/14101/category/rookie/season/2011/selected/bio/default.aspx

[The Underdog]

I wouldn't take any notice of it, you can manipulate the code on the AFL clubs websites to make any listed play appear to be on the website for any club.

Like this

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/playerprofile/scottpendlebury/tabid/9150/playerid/14101/category/rookie/season/2011/selected/bio/default.aspx

I figured it wasn't real, thought it was more likely a Telstra mistake, but the thought of it chills me

[EasternWest]

I wouldn't take any notice of it, you can manipulate the code on the AFL clubs websites to make any listed play appear to be on the website for any club.

Like this

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/players/playerprofile/scottpendlebury/tabid/9150/playerid/14101/category/rookie/season/2011/selected/bio/default.aspx

Ha! In that case, consider me sucked in. I was ready to tear up my membership if we signed Raph Clarke.

Yes, that's a joke.

[Pickenitup]

Heard we are keen On Macaffer from pies might get a draft pick in the 30's 40's to get it done

[The Adelaide Connection]

Fox Sports News had Brisbane officials stating they might make a play for Hudson, especially if Mitch Clark goes West. Would that be a Mal Michael type scenario where they could get him for nothing, or would they have to give us something?

[chef]

Fox Sports News had Brisbane officials stating they might make a play for Hudson, especially if Mitch Clark goes West. Would that be a Mal Michael type scenario where they could get him for nothing, or would they have to give us something?

He will be uncontracted by the time the draft starts so they can just pick him up for nothing. I can't see anyone else being interested so they won't have to trade.

[G-Mo77]

If we get something for Huddo, great, if we don't know biggie as he wasn't going to play here next year anyway.

I think Brisbane will give us something to keep the peace, won't be much though.

[divvydan]

Brisbane are better off trading some nominal pick if they want him. The primary reason is that if they wait until the preseason draft, Hudson will have missed about 6 weeks of preseason. Additionally, it allows them to sort out the rest of their list with something locked in that they can work around.

[GVGjr]

Brisbane are better off trading some nominal pick if they want him. The primary reason is that if they wait until the preseason draft, Hudson will have missed about 6 weeks of preseason. Additionally, it allows them to sort out the rest of their list with something locked in that they can work around.

Something nominal doesn't do a lot for us though. Would we be better served but just letting him into the PSD?

[G-Mo77]

Something nominal doesn't do a lot for us though. Would we be better served but just letting him into the PSD?

I don't know how. We get a pick that may or may not be of much use but in the process we get a good trading partner in Brisbane and give a player who gave us is all another year at AFL level. I don't think it helps anyone involved to just let him go in the PSD.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Something nominal doesn't do a lot for us though. Would we be better served but just letting him into the PSD?

With a bit of luck GC might decide that they too want Hudson and we can get a bit of a bidding war going.:)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Heard we are keen On Macaffer from pies might get a draft pick in the 30's 40's to get it done

How old is he?

He had a great year in 2010, but was quiet/injured this year?

At the right price, I'd consider it.

[1eyedog]

How old is he?

He had a great year in 2010, but was quiet/injured this year?

At the right price, I'd consider it.

He's a bits player who only does well in a team that's firing. We have enough bits players.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He's a bits player who only does well in a team that's firing. We have enough bits players.

If we effectively replaced Hill, Reid or Addison with McCaffer then I wouldn't mind.

He's a physical player and a hard worker. All depends on what sort of game plan we have in mind too.

[anfo27]

If we effectively replaced Hill, Reid or Addison with McCaffer then I wouldn't mind.

He's a physical player and a hard worker. All depends on what sort of game plan we have in mind too.

I don't mind him as a player but he is one of the worst kick for goals you have ever seen.

[EasternWest]

If we effectively replaced Hill, Reid or Addison with McCaffer then I wouldn't mind.

He's a physical player and a hard worker. All depends on what sort of game plan we have in mind too.

So we trade/delist Addison who's a physical player and hard worker for McCaffer, who's a physical player and hard worker?

I've got nothing against the kid, and anyone who knows me knows I'm a big Addison fan, but neither of them give us anything that makes our team better.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

So we trade/delist Addison who's a physical player and hard worker for McCaffer, who's a physical player and hard worker?

I've got nothing against the kid, and anyone who knows me knows I'm a big Addison fan, but neither of them give us anything that makes our team better.

We can't have 40 odd kids on the list.

Personally I don't think Addison isn't up to AFL level. For the talk of his competitiveness, he doesn't bring it very often. McCaffer is an upgrade, from my point of view.

[Topdog]

McCaffer > Addison by a long way.

[macca]

+ macaffer can kick goals

[EasternWest]

McCaffer > Addison by a long way.

That's not the point I'm making. A tough hardworking player is great. They set good examples and keep other players honest.

McCaffer is probably better than all of our fringe players, but will he make our team better, because that's all I care about.

If we were seriously looking at contention next year and a guy like McCaffer might give us that extra x percent, then maybe it's worth pursuing. But as it is, we've done our share of trading for fringe players, and our record isn't outstanding.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We have been reported to be interested in Farren Ray in the HS.

What would it take? I'd be slightly interested. He's a decent role player, but we wouldn't want him distributing the ball again.

Also, Toovey is on the move from Collingwood. Considering we need defenders - should we look at him, and what would he cost?

[LostDoggy]

When we even looking at these fringe players? So what if McAffer is better than some of our ones we should delisted. He won't improve the side by much.

[Desipura]

When we even looking at these fringe players? So what if McAffer is better than some of our ones we should delisted. He won't improve the side by much.
I know, lets get Franklin and delist Addison, will that improve it much?

[Bulldog Joe]

I don't think we should be seduced by fringe players.

They are generally on the fringe for a reason and those with an occasional game in top sides will look better than those getting games in poorer teams.

We need someone who will add something extra. That means someone filling a specific need who is unlikely to be a fringe player anywhere (Barry, Huddo etc) or someone who is ready to improve after 2 or 3 tears in the system.

Other than that we get game changers by finding and developing our own. Dahlhaus and Jones might develop into that and so might some of the other recent draftees.

[Bulldog Revolution]

We have been reported to be interested in Farren Ray in the HS.

What would it take? I'd be slightly interested. He's a decent role player, but we wouldn't want him distributing the ball again.

Also, Toovey is on the move from Collingwood. Considering we need defenders - should we look at him, and what would he cost?

Interesting wasn't it,

Ross Lyon found a way to use Ray in a far more constructive way, where he largely got the ball and handballed to guys behind him who set up the play. They rarely used him as a creative wingman.

He'd certainly come back a better player

Depends on the price and what he wants in salary

Will Toovey actually leave? - some heavy posturing on both sides it seems

[Rocco Jones]

I think fans are far too simplistic when dismissing fringe players. For me it comes down to the need for the role they can fill and especially about the price.

[Mofra]

Will Toovey actually leave? - some heavy posturing on both sides it seems
He would be best 22 at most clubs in the competition - I'd have him at the Bulldogs in a heartbeat.

[bulldogsman]

He would be best 22 at most clubs in the competition - I'd have him at the Bulldogs in a heartbeat.

I'd rather us look at run and carry offensive types. Not solid defensive players. At the right price he would be fine, but a club like Essendon are in big need of him meaning we will have to pay overs. No thanks.

[BulldogBelle]

I think fans are far too simplistic when dismissing fringe players. For me it comes down to the need for the role they can fill and especially about the price.

Agree

Matthew Bate to Western Bulldogs

Farren Ray to Western Bulldogs

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/saints-field-offers-for-gram/story-fn69a32t-1226163554972

I also heard that we were interested in Brock McLean - another hard and slow body

If we paid anything more than a 3rd round pick for Bate, and a 4th round pick for Ray I would be very disappointed

I wouldnt mind Bate in our forward line actually - he would add some experience, intensity and strength given Hall/Hahn's retirement and the fact that Jones and Panos and potentially Hill are still young and developing

Ray - if he comes super cheap (salary and pick) I wouldnt mind him back to play as a hard tag as mentoned above by another poster

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Bate and McLean? Please no.

[Sedat]

Bate and McLean? Please no.
Not only are we reverting back to the 1954 jumper, our playing list is being moulded into one with 1954 style athletic attributes.

They are only rumours at this stage - I hope they remain that way.

[LostDoggy]

I know, lets get Franklin and delist Addison, will that improve it much?

We might fluke an A grader in the draft. I highly doubt we will get one trading, especially trading for fringe players.

[LostDoggy]

He would be best 22 at most clubs in the competition - I'd have him at the Bulldogs in a heartbeat.

Rumours say Toovey wants 350K. Not sure he is worth that

[Desipura]

We might fluke an A grader in the draft. I highly doubt we will get one trading, especially trading for fringe players.
Trading a 3rd rounder for a player that may fit our needs (all be it not an A Grader) is not a bad thing.
Highly unlikely to get an A grader with a 3rd round pick in a compromised draft.

[anfo27]

Agree

Matthew Bate to Western Bulldogs

Farren Ray to Western Bulldogs

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/saints-field-offers-for-gram/story-fn69a32t-1226163554972

I also heard that we were interested in Brock McLean - another hard and slow body

If we paid anything more than a 3rd round pick for Bate, and a 4th round pick for Ray I would be very disappointed

I wouldnt mind Bate in our forward line actually - he would add some experience, intensity and strength given Hall/Hahn's retirement and the fact that Jones and Panos and potentially Hill are still young and developing

Ray - if he comes super cheap (salary and pick) I wouldnt mind him back to play as a hard tag as mentoned above by another poster

Someone is having a laugh here. This spud is on $400,000 at the blues and i wouldn't take him if Carlton offered to pay all of it.

[kruder]

Farren Ray???? Brock Mclean???Surely its a bad joke?????

[LostDoggy]

Someone is having a laugh here. This spud is on $400,000 at the blues and i wouldn't take him if Carlton offered to pay all of it.

This. I'd pay for his fare back to Carlton.

[LostDoggy]

Trading a 3rd rounder for a player that may fit our needs (all be it not an A Grader) is not a bad thing.
Highly unlikely to get an A grader with a 3rd round pick in a compromised draft.

All well and good if a fringe player at another club that could do a role for us costs us only a 3rd rounder. Call me cynical I don't see that happening. We got screwed last year, nothing will change this year if we go down the same path.

[The Adelaide Connection]

I would like to see us sign this bloke up:

http://www.cdfc.com.au/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=334:15-lee-spurr&catid=16:league-squad&Itemid=19

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/lee-spurr-takes-aim-at-afl-mature-age-draft/story-fn525un5-1226163415275

This from the AFL site last year. The highlights are all from last years grand final. In this years grand final his last quarter was phenomenal.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsartile/tabid/208/newsid/104507/default.aspx

[The Adelaide Connection]

Thought I should definitely add this:

NtCfyNpx7Kc

[Hotdog60]

At least he's in the right colours:)

[Remi Moses]

It's amazing that fringe list cloggers somehow garner currency in trade week.
Brock McLean looks to slow for suburban football, Bate couldn't get a game in an ordinary team,they even let Miller go who plays that role and Bate still couldn't get a gig!!
Paul Bower is Craig Ellis post 1997( uncoordinated)
I'd like to see us just use the draft and if we're going to do some trading bring in those 17 y/o GWS listed players. Marcus Drum aside just look an hour up the road for a template.

[Ghost Dog]

It's amazing that fringe list cloggers somehow garner currency in trade week.
Brock McLean looks to slow for suburban football, Bate couldn't get a game in an ordinary team,they even let Miller go who plays that role and Bate still couldn't get a gig!!
Paul Bower is Craig Ellis post 1997( uncoordinated)
I'd like to see us just use the draft and if we're going to do some trading bring in those 17 y/o GWS listed players. Marcus Drum aside just look an hour up the road for a template.

McClean was being touted as the Luke Ball of 2011 for a while there.

[azabob]

McClean was being touted as the Luke Ball of 2011 for a while there.

Ha! Thanks for the morning laugh! Was it Carlton supporters preaching this?

[Desipura]

All well and good if a fringe player at another club that could do a role for us costs us only a 3rd rounder. Call me cynical I don't see that happening. We got screwed last year, nothing will change this year if we go down the same path.

That a fair enough. I do agree that if we picked up a player from another club with our 3rd pick, we want to make sure he will become a permanent fixture to our side.

[LostDoggy]

That a fair enough. I do agree that if we picked up a player from another club with our 3rd pick, we want to make sure he will become a permanent fixture to our side.

Permanent fixtures like last year trades Vez and Dj?

[Desipura]

Permanent fixtures like last year trades Vez and Dj?
Vez could yet be a good pickup, next season is do or die for him.
DJ.....well I will reserve judgement.

[Topdog]

Interesting wasn't it,

Ross Lyon found a way to use Ray in a far more constructive way, where he largely got the ball and handballed to guys behind him who set up the play. They rarely used him as a creative wingman.

He'd certainly come back a better player

Depends on the price and what he wants in salary

Will Toovey actually leave? - some heavy posturing on both sides it seems

Disagree. He would be coming back exactly the same player and would be completely pointless with us.

[Topdog]

Permanent fixtures like last year trades Vez and Dj?

What did we give up for them? DJ IIRC was a third rounder which was a complete and utter waste and everyone here said it at the time.

McCaffer would not be a waste. Good age and a good player, would slot straight in.

There is a difference between trading for duds and trading for fringe players who are actually pretty good.

[LostDoggy]

Josh Hill's manager says Josh happy to goto West Coast

Their picks include 45,67. Could we take 45? I'd see them pushing for 67 or later.

Anyone be happy with that?

[The Doctor]

Josh Hill's manager says Josh happy to goto West Coast

Their picks include 45,67. Could we take 45? I'd see them pushing for 67 or later.

Anyone be happy with that?

if they offered 45 we should take it and send them a nice Christmas card.

[LostDoggy]

if they offered 45 we should take it and send them a nice Christmas card.

True. Don't think Hawks budged on late 30s pick last year. 1 Year on #45 would be a Godsend :rolleyes:

[BulldogBelle]

If we miraculously get 45 from WCE, Would that be enough to snare Macaffer? Guilt-free trade if true.

[Hot_Doggies]

Josh Hill could be handy for WCE. Play him forward, build his confidence , he could do some damage on Subi.

When firing Hill has very sticky hands, could see him floating infront of a few long kicks to Kennedy, Lynch, Darling etc

[ledge]

Vez could yet be a good pickup, next season is do or die for him.
DJ.....well I will reserve judgement.

Funny its looked at it that way as DJ has been the best of the two so far.
More games, odd glimpses of talent but Vez is a good pick up.
I personally think we did okay, We got DJ for a nothing pick and Vez who certainly has more going for him than Andrejas.

[LostDoggy]

45 is actually down around the late 60's anyway this season in reality.

[bornadog]

Hill has had a meeting with WCE and is waiting to see what happems as that is his preference.. According to his manager, BMcC rates Hill but if Josh prefers to go home so be it.

[Topdog]

45 is actually down around the late 60's anyway this season in reality.

Aren't there only 6 or 7 players out of it.

[LostDoggy]

What did we give up for them? DJ IIRC was a third rounder which was a complete and utter waste and everyone here said it at the time.

McCaffer would not be a waste. Good age and a good player, would slot straight in.

There is a difference between trading for duds and trading for fringe players who are actually pretty good.

McCaffer for a 3rd rounder is where you are dreaming and not sure we can't afford him at 350K pa.

[G-Mo77]

Josh Hill's manager says Josh happy to goto West Coast

Their picks include 45,67. Could we take 45? I'd see them pushing for 67 or later.

Anyone be happy with that?

Would love to get #45.

[bornadog]

Suns land O'Meara, Crows in box seat for Crouch (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/suns-land-omeara-crows-in-box-seat-for-crouch-20111012-1lkew.html)

Trade week's biggest dominoes appear set to be fall today with Gold Coast and Adelaide having secured prized 17-year-old players Jaeger O'Meara and Brad Crouch respectively.

The Suns will get O'Meara, beating off a strong bid by Melbourne which pulled out of contention earlier today.

Under the O'Meara deal, Gold Coast will give up its No.4 pick in this year's national draft and a mid-first round concession pick (obtained from Geelong last year) in return for the highly-touted Western Australian O'Meara who would certainly be selected in the top three of this year's draft if he was eligible. O'Meara is not draft age but can only be traded to another club by Greater Western Sydney.

[The Doctor]

Crouch looks certain to go to adelaide, think there is a pending announcement.

Looks like we're going to miss out.

[bulldogsman]

Matthew Haynes would fit our needs, I wonder if we will make an offer for the 3rd pick in the mini draft.

[Mantis]

Matthew Haynes would fit our needs, I wonder if we will make an offer for the 3rd pick in the mini draft.

Pretty sure GWS are offering up 2 picks this year and another 2 next year.. of their alloted 4.

[bornadog]

GWS now have the first 5 picks in the draft and 11 of the first 14

[bulldogsman]

Pretty sure GWS are offering up 2 picks this year and another 2 next year.. of their alloted 4.

Not if we give them an offer they can't refuse. I doubt it will happen but you never know.

[soupman]

Not if we give them an offer they can't refuse. I doubt it will happen but you never know.

I'm pretty sure it's actually written down that they can trade 2 this year and 2 next. They aren't allowed to do three this year, even if we offer Griffen with Liam Jones thrown in.

[LostDoggy]

No they can give them all away this year if they like

[bulldogsman]

I'm pretty sure it's actually written down that they can trade 2 this year and 2 next. They aren't allowed to do three this year, even if we offer Griffen with Liam Jones thrown in.

This is incorrect.

"The most likely scenario will see GWS auction off two picks to the highest bidders this year and then repeat the process next year in order to maximise their return.

However, if interest in this year's crop of players born in the eligibility window creates a bidding war, then the Giants can conceivably move on all four picks, which the successful clubs can then use on the player of their choice if he's still available."

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=117004

[SlimPickens]

Rumours say Toovey wants 350K. Not sure he is worth that

I think Toovey is fairly underated, he is rarely beaten and provides a good option when turning defence into attack. I'd imagine a club would be happy to pay that or possibly a mil over 3 years.

[SlimPickens]

Would love to get #45.

Would jump at this, to think what might have been last trade period.

[bornadog]

I think Toovey is fairly underated, he is rarely beaten and provides a good option when turning defence into attack. I'd imagine a club would be happy to pay that or possibly a mil over 3 years.

I would take him.

[LostDoggy]

I would take him.

ditto.

We are not exactly overflowing for defensive options and waiting three years for a draft pick who may or may not come on doesn't bode well for our ability to shut teams down.

[SlimPickens]

I would take him.

agree

[Greystache]

agree

Is he really able to shut down dangerous small forwards like Milne, Betts, Rioli etc?

[bornadog]

Is he really able to shut down dangerous small forwards like Milne, Betts, Rioli etc?

I don't think he is, he is more of an attacking HBF and a good replacement for Shaggy.

[Greystache]

I don't think he is, he is more of an attacking HBF and a good replacement for Shaggy.

Personally I think the attacking half back role is the easiest position to fill in an AFL team. Any team with an abundance of midfielders can play one or two there, or a half forward struggling to get into games can be thrown back there, I wouldn't be looking to pay overs to bring in a specialist attacking half back who's only a good ordinary player.

On the same topic we seem to be making a huge effort in the draft to recruit this skill set (Howard, Tutt, Schofield), when in reality drafting quick players with good kicking skills can play back there while developing so long as they have the required competitiveness.

If we're going to chase defenders I'd prefer to get one who can shut down a small crumbing forward. They're probably cheaper too due to be a less glamorous type of player.

[Sedat]

Is he really able to shut down dangerous small forwards like Milne, Betts, Rioli etc?
He would be in the best dozen one-on-one defenders in the competition IMO. He wasn't right in the last couple of months of 2011 after being bashed to a pulp running with the flight of the ball mid season, so I would take his late season drop away in form with a grain of salt.

I would get him to the kennel in a heartbeat.

[bulldogsman]

Is Toovey really an attacking HBF? Averaged 12 disposals for the year, not exactly damaging by foot. Am i missing something?

I was sure he was a defensive type.

[SlimPickens]

Is he really able to shut down dangerous small forwards like Milne, Betts, Rioli etc?

Looking for the stats to back me up but i seem to recall him having one of the lowest (in terms of goals against) totals in the collingwoods back line this year.

I think he would be a good player for us to get as our mid sized good defenders are lacking especially with Dale injured, Shaggy coming to the end of his career and Murphy basically carrying the defence all year.

I don't think we will get him but as Chops said he thought 350K a year was to high, i disagree.

[Maddog37]

GWS now have the first 5 picks in the draft and 11 of the first 14

They will be a touch deflated if the draft is as weak as suggested. Time will tell I guess.

Also I am relieved we did not get caught up in the 17 y.o. Auction. Seemed like everyone was getting a bit excited about these kids.

[LostDoggy]

They will be a touch deflated if the draft is as weak as suggested. Time will tell I guess.

Also I am relieved we did not get caught up in the 17 y.o. Auction. Seemed like everyone was getting a bit excited about these kids.

Our name was dropped around for Crouch but looks like Adelaide have come to terms with securing him. Besides Josh possibly moving to WC, can't see any trade action coming our way - which is not a bad thing, no one really out there that screams "Use the first round/ward pick and go get him!"

Hope we can pluck a couple of guns from the draft.

[Bulldog Revolution]

How much are the crows kidding themselves on Maric

If they really rated him why didn't they play him

Ridiculous posturing, taken the 2nd round pick and shut up

[KT31]

Is Toovey really an attacking HBF? Averaged 12 disposals for the year, not exactly damaging by foot. Am i missing something?

I was sure he was a defensive type.

I think Toovey is a case of having better cattle on the padock and having teammates relieve a lot offthe preasure.
If Brian is up and running and we have a solid backline, could he take on the role Harbrow once played ?

[G-Mo77]

Is Toovey really an attacking HBF? Averaged 12 disposals for the year, not exactly damaging by foot. Am i missing something?

I was sure he was a defensive type.

Just a fringe player who's able to adapt to certain role in a good side. Would have no currency if he played for us or any weaker teams.

[Mantis]

Just a fringe player who's able to adapt to certain role in a good side. Would have no currency if he played for us or any weaker teams.

Fringe? Yeah right.

He is a very good shut down player who would have currency regardless of the team he played for.

[SlimPickens]

Fringe? Yeah right.

He is a very good shut down player who would have currency regardless of the team he played for.

Of course he is fringe.... coach loved him, team mates loved playing with him and has played every game bar injury in the last two years.;)

[G-Mo77]

Fringe? Yeah right.

He is a very good shut down player who would have currency regardless of the team he played for.

OK we'll see how he goes at his new team then. ;)

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word fringe, had a few beers last night. Not as good as Collingwood supporters and media proclaim. Sound better?

[Desipura]

Personally I think the attacking half back role is the easiest position to fill in an AFL team. Any team with an abundance of midfielders can play one or two there, or a half forward struggling to get into games can be thrown back there, I wouldn't be looking to pay overs to bring in a specialist attacking half back who's only a good ordinary player.

On the same topic we seem to be making a huge effort in the draft to recruit this skill set (Howard, Tutt, Schofield), when in reality drafting quick players with good kicking skills can play back there while developing so long as they have the required competitiveness.

If we're going to chase defenders I'd prefer to get one who can shut down a small crumbing forward. They're probably cheaper too due to be a less glamorous type of player.
Anyone available?

[Mofra]

Is Toovey really an attacking HBF? Averaged 12 disposals for the year, not exactly damaging by foot. Am i missing something?

I was sure he was a defensive type.
Same as Wood; Easten averaged 12.1.
Toovey had a little more disjointed season and I still rate him highly - certainly more than Bower

[G-Mo77]

emmasq Emma Quayle
Believe the port-wc-gws deal for ebert-cornes-brogan might've been done without the Dogs, who weren't happy with the pick offered for Hill.

Shakes head.

[hujsh]

emmasq Emma Quayle
Believe the port-wc-gws deal for ebert-cornes-brogan might've been done without the Dogs, who weren't happy with the pick offered for Hill.

Shakes head.

Maybe we just overrate everyone. Bate's worth pick 39, Hill is worth more than 49, next Minson will be worth pick 5

[ledge]

Maybe we just overrate everyone. Bate's worth pick 39, Hill is worth more than 49, next Minson will be worth pick 5

This i think is because we are still happy to keep Hill and see how he goes under new coach.
We dont really want to get rid of him unless an offer is very attractive, so we ask for more if we dont get it big deal he stays.

[hujsh]

This i think is because we are still happy to keep Hill and see how he goes under new coach.
We dont really want to get rid of him unless an offer is very attractive, so we ask for more if we dont get it big deal he stays.

Does Hill have another year? I thought this would be the last year of his contract. If we really want to keep him then fair enough.

[ledge]

Does Hill have another year? I thought this would be the last year of his contract. If we really want to keep him then fair enough.

Not sure but from what I read we are happy to keep him.

[anfo27]

This i think is because we are still happy to keep Hill and see how he goes under new coach.
We dont really want to get rid of him unless an offer is very attractive, so we ask for more if we dont get it big deal he stays.

Agree with you here Ledge. To trade him for a pick that only upgrades us 3-4 spots in the 40's is a waste of our time. I'm not a big Hill fan as his intensity is below AFL standard but he has a lot of talent and still only 22 so we must be thinking Eade couldn't get the best out of him and if macca can we will have a good player on our hands.
I'm happy for macca to give him 12 months to try and work him out. I don't think we rate our players too much but rather how was that deal going to benefit us?
I think when Eade left Hill seem to play with more enthusiasm so change of coach might be exactly what changes his career around, i hope so.

[azabob]

Does Hill have another year? I thought this would be the last year of his contract. If we really want to keep him then fair enough.

He must have another year otherwise we would get what we could for him.

[bornadog]

He must have another year otherwise we would get what we could for him.

According to Emma Quayle he is uncontracted.

[azabob]

According to Emma Quayle he is uncontracted.

Interesting, wonder if he will walk then?

[G-Mo77]

I think when Eade left Hill seem to play with more enthusiasm so change of coach might be exactly what changes his career around, i hope so.

Did you watch him play in the VFL Grand Final? I thought the same thing as you up until then until I realised this is the same Josh Hill.

Look if we can keep him on the cheap and see how he goes then why not but if there is a pick there that we could use I'd rather grab that.

[ledge]

Interesting, wonder if he will walk then?

All depends if he wants to go to a club of choice or take a gamble.

[Topdog]

Hill will be good for the first month next year. Then he will stop trying again.

[azabob]

Hill will be good for the first month next year. Then he will stop trying again.

Likely. I just don't understand why doesn't want to work hard.

[G-Mo77]

Likely. I just don't understand why doesn't want to work hard.

He just doesn't have it mentally. Maybe a new coach can turn it around, I'm more than happy to give him a chance to do it but would prefer he's traded out for a pick we can use in the draft.

[LostDoggy]

Will Brisbane wave Pick 12 at the crows for Tippett? Would they budge or want much more?

Tippett and Clark worth the same? Theyve both played almost exact amount of games but Clark has been around longer. What would you do if you were the Adelaide recruiting manager, being offered pick 12? Surely you would have to push for more? Both 8 and 12?

[anfo27]

Will Brisbane wave Pick 12 at the crows for Tippett? Would they budge or want much more?

Tippett and Clark worth the same? Theyve both played almost exact amount of games but Clark has around longer. What would you do if you were the Adelaide recruiting manager, being offered pick 12? Surely you would have to push for more? Both 8 and 12?

I would take Clark over Tippett any day and if the Lions give up both picks for a player who has gone backwards for the last 2 years then Voss just hasn't learnt his lesson the first time.