Let them fear Western Bulldogs - new coach Brendan McCartney

[Greystache]

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/09/19/1226141/200286-brendan-mccartney.jpg

WESTERN Bulldogs coach Brendan McCartney has challenged his players to play "total footy".

In a stirring address at the club's best and fairest count on Friday night, McCartney promised a hard edge at the Whitten Oval.

"I think we'd like to be respected. I'd think we'd like to be admired and I think we'd like to be a little bit feared for how we play and how ruthless we are in the way we go about our business," he said.

"When opposition clubs play us they know they've got to prepare well ... to handle what we throw at them - and we will call that total footy.

"We hope to be good at all areas of the game and have people who can play their position really well ... who are big, strong ruthless animals who play to win.

"I'm quite serious about that. I'm deadly serious."

McCartney, who last month won a three-year contract to replace Rodney Eade, met the playing group for the first time on Friday morning, leaving them in no doubt about his philosophies.

The words ruthless and selfless were constants in his message. He said he was passionate about developing the young players and making it hard for the opposition.

"Playing the right way is tough, uncompromising footy around the footy ... a style of play where we can move the ball and, as importantly, work to get the ball back," he said.

"It will take a while to fix up one or two of those areas and I'm really looking forward to having a crack at it."

He also wanted to embrace past players and develop the current players to help them become coaches at the club and remain part of the "Bulldog family".


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/let-them-fear-western-bulldogs-new-coach-brendan-mccartney/story-e6frf9jf-1226162009376

[Greystache]

The new coach is certainly not shy to put himself and the club out there, I really like that.

[lemmon]

Saying all the right things, 'big, strong, ruthless animals' is enough to get the snarl on my face

[LostDoggy]

Saying all the right things, 'big, strong, ruthless animals' is enough to get the snarl on my face

Giddy up lil doggy!

[hujsh]

Saying all the right things, 'big, strong, ruthless animals' is enough to get the snarl on my face

Deadly serious made me giggle. Not sure why though. Bit over the top perhaps.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Saying all the right things, 'big, strong, ruthless animals' is enough to get the snarl on my face

BBBB Hall must be his prototype. What chance of Josh Hill making the transformation?
Seriously, McCartney seems exactly what the club needs with its developing youngsters, many of whom are yet to grab the bull by its proverbial.

[w3design]

He sounds exactly what is needed at the club very happy man go DOGGIES 2012

[bulldogsthru&thru]

he is saying everything i want and have wanted to hear for so long. He knows exactly what our weaknesses are. These are the aspects of our game we have lacked for so long yet never saw any improvement in. Time will tell how the players respond but with McC and our new jumper i seriously cannot wait for 2012! Haven't been this excited for a season ever and thats saying something considering how poorly we are/were looking after the previous season

[1eyedog]

Total Footy- can it be a Bulldogs TM?

[ratsmac]

He talks the talk but can he walk the walk, gee I really hope so!
Go doggies 2012

[LostDoggy]

The more I hear, the more I like! It seems we "dishlickers" have never had the mongrel to know how to bury another side - but it sounds as if we are on the way! Yay!

[Sockeye Salmon]

All I'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric

[Bulldog Revolution]

All I'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric

But in fairness publicly at the moment he can't do much more than sell a vision can he?

[ledge]

All I'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric

UMM what else would you like for him to do 1 month in and off season?
All he can do is put forward his plans and he is doing that.
Whether they work isnt going to be known until the seasons going.
He seems to be saying the things we want to hear, certainly is recruiting assistants that are good with young players.
It all takes time, please tell me what you expected?

[GVGjr]

All I'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric

He's hardly had a chance to put actions to the words. Lets judge him on that.

[boydogs]

All I'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric

What do you want him to do?

[Sockeye Salmon]

What do you want him to do?

Right now there's nothing for him to do.

But the only cliche I haven't heard him use is "we won't be accepting mediocrity"

[BulldogBelle]

"We hope to be good at all areas of the game and have people who can play their position really well ... who are big, strong ruthless animals who play to win.

If he can develop Grant, Higgins, Williams, Hill (erm) Roughead, Cordy, Howard etc into big, strong, ruthless animals then we will have found a great coach

The above mentioned are those at times who lack intensity, aggression, ruthlessness & strength..

If I think about back to '97 - Wallace did the same thing- he made the Dogs the team that opposition teams didn't want to play, due to our aggression at the football and at the man- granted in our team then we had the likes of Dent, Southern, Dimma, Romero, Wynd, Libba senior, Grant, M West, Kretiuk, Kolyniuk who were all a bunch of hard arses in the mould that McCartney wants to develop....

[immortalmike]

I mostly agree with Sockeye here. Not much he do at the moment but I've heard this all before. I hope Macca is the coach who can deliver though.

[Ghost Dog]

Right now there's nothing for him to do.

But the only cliche I haven't heard him use is "we won't be accepting mediocrity"

What would you prefer he say? I think that was the question.

Back to basics for the Dogs by the sounds of things.

[ledge]

I mostly agree with Sockeye here. Not much he do at the moment but I've heard this all before. I hope Macca is the coach who can deliver though.

Can you please tell me what you were wanting him to do or what else he could do?

[AndrewP6]

I agree that the words are just that, but also that we can't expect anything else of him ATM. I'll reserve my call until he's actually done something there.

[FrediKanoute]

Total Footy- can it be a Bulldogs TM?

No.....the concept of total football came from the johann Croyff led Dutch team of the 70's

[G-Mo77]

I agree that the words are just that, but also that we can't expect anything else of him ATM. I'll reserve my call until he's actually done something there.

Pretty much my thoughts. I certainly hope that everything goes to plan in 2012 but I have serious doubts that we're headed back to the top 8 next year. All I'm hoping for would be a nice transitional year and then a big push in 2013.

[1eyedog]

No.....the concept of total football came from the johann Croyff led Dutch team of the 70's

Damn! Can it be a Bulldog philosophy come real?

[Bulldog Revolution]

No.....the concept of total football came from the johann Croyff led Dutch team of the 70's

I saw that quote and thought we'd hear from you Fredi

What was Total Football about? Was it about as BMac seems to be interpreting for our purposes as being excellent at every element of the game?

Or did it just end up being spin from coaches?

[immortalmike]

Can you please tell me what you were wanting him to do or what else he could do?

Nothing apart from what he is doing (I'd like a couple less cliche' answers but otherwise not much). I'm taking a wait and see approach as we've been burnt by big promises and tough talk before (Peter Rhode). Is there something wrong with that?

[ledge]

Nothing apart from what he is doing (I'd like a couple less cliche' answers but otherwise not much). I'm taking a wait and see approach as we've been burnt by big promises and tough talk before (Peter Rhode). Is there something wrong with that?

Well your saying he is all words then your saying there is nothing else he could do.
So in affect your having a go at the bloke but then agreeing with what he is doing?
Your taking a wait and see approach ?
No your not your saying he is all words at the moment.
A wait and see approach would be no comment until you see.
Critisizing hiim being all talk, no one knows until the seasons in progress but most agree the things he says we lack is true.
You cant ask for more than a coach at this stage to recognize the weaknesses and he has been honest and said what he thinks they are.

[Mantis]

Pretty much my thoughts. I certainly hope that everything goes to plan in 2012 but I have serious doubts that we're headed back to the top 8 next year. All I'm hoping for would be a nice transitional year and then a big push in 2013.

I actually think we will be worse in 2013 than we are in 2012.

[Sedat]

I actually think we will be worse in 2013 than we are in 2012.
Tend to agree. It takes time for a new coach to implement his game style and phisophies to a playing group that has old habits in their game. Ross lyon went backwards in year 1, likewise Clarko really struggled early as well. And our playing group certainly has some old habits that will take time to shake off. For mine, 2012 is unimportant from a results perspective, so long as there is a uniformity and consistency in our game style that has all players on the same page I'll be content.

[bornadog]

I actually think we will be worse in 2013 than we are in 2012.


Tend to agree. It takes time for a new coach to implement his game style and phisophies to a playing group that has old habits in their game. Ross lyon went backwards in year 1, likewise Clarko really struggled early as well. And our playing group certainly has some old habits that will take time to shake off. For mine, 2012 is unimportant from a results perspective, so long as there is a uniformity and consistency in our game style that has all players on the same page I'll be content.

That's the negative view point. The positive is the debutantes from this year will be playing their 50th games in 2013 and starting to contribute on a more consistent basis. The last of the class of 1999 will be gone so we will need players to step up and fill some of those roles.

[Mantis]

That's the negative view point. The positive is the debutantes from this year will be playing their 50th games in 2013 and starting to contribute on a more consistent basis. The last of the class of 1999 will be gone so we will need players to step up and fill some of those roles.

Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to be super positive like you.

The results in our B&F give me every right to believe that we are in for some hard times over the next 2 or 3 years.

----

On the article it's a brave move by the coach to spruik such a positive message... I hope he has what it takes because there is little margain for error when making such bold promises.

[1eyedog]

That's the negative view point. The positive is the debutantes from this year will be playing their 50th games in 2013 and starting to contribute on a more consistent basis. The last of the class of 1999 will be gone so we will need players to step up and fill some of those roles.

Gia, Boyd, Cross, Murphy, Gilbee, Lake and Hargrave. It will be interesting to see what the these names can do in 2013. Bodies break down and deteriorate quickly.

Some of our young brigade will be approaching 50 games at the end of 2013, but to expect them all to step up and fill roles after 30 games is optimistic. Still, Hawthorn's and Geelong's kids did it I suppose.

[bornadog]

Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to be super positive like you.

The results in our B&F give me every right to believe that we are in for some hard times over the next 2 or 3 years.

----

On the article it's a brave move by the coach to spruik such a positive message... I hope he has what it takes because there is little margain for error when making such bold promises.

Never said I was super positive or you should be - read again what I did say.

[bornadog]

Gia, Boyd, Cross, Murphy, Gilbee, Lake and Hargrave. It will be interesting to see what the these names can do in 2013. Bodies break down and deteriorate quickly.

I wouldn't be relying on Gia, Gilbee, or Hargrave. Murphy may start to struggle, Cross, Boyd and Lake will be interesting.

[Mantis]

Never said I was super positive or you should be - read again what I did say.

You said that's the negative view point.

Regardless of how you perceive my view point to be I believe we are going to struggle over the short to mid term and I do not have the faith in the young players as you do.... especially when these younger players have to step up into more senior roles when the older players, who we heavily rely on, drop off.

[LostDoggy]

UMM what else would you like for him to do 1 month in and off season?
All he can do is put forward his plans and he is doing that.
Whether they work isnt going to be known until the seasons going.
He seems to be saying the things we want to hear, certainly is recruiting assistants that are good with young players.
It all takes time, please tell me what you expected?

I read it as a message to the playing group, not to the supporters. He could say anything he likes to the fans, it probably won't matter a bit — I still know people who won't buy memberships because we haven't won a flag in nearly 60 years.

But if he's talking to the playing group, then it's exactly what needs to be said. He might be cringing inwardly himself, but to use another cliche, the line needs to be drawn and the playing group needs to decide which side they stand on.


Pretty much my thoughts. I certainly hope that everything goes to plan in 2012 but I have serious doubts that we're headed back to the top 8 next year. All I'm hoping for would be a nice transitional year and then a big push in 2013.

Agree. I think starting our next tilt from 2013-14 onwards is a realistic expectation. Flag in 2014-16.


That's the negative view point. The positive is the debutantes from this year will be playing their 50th games in 2013 and starting to contribute on a more consistent basis. The last of the class of 1999 will be gone so we will need players to step up and fill some of those roles.

+1

[1eyedog]

I wouldn't be relying on Gia, Gilbee, or Hargrave. Murphy may start to struggle, Cross, Boyd and Lake will be interesting.

I would say out of all of them that Murphy is the most athletic and naturally gifted. I wouldn't be relying on any of them, except perhaps for Murph for that year.

[bornadog]

I would say out of all of them that Murphy is the most athletic and naturally gifted. I wouldn't be relying on any of them, except perhaps for Murph for that year.

Cross is the youngest and probably the fittest out of your list.

[1eyedog]

Cross is the youngest and probably the fittest out of your list.

Indeed, but he's also the slowest and least versatile.

[Desipura]

Cross is the youngest and probably the fittest out of your list.
Your positivity gets in the way of reality sometimes.

[LostDoggy]

I saw that quote and thought we'd hear from you Fredi

What was Total Football about? Was it about as BMac seems to be interpreting for our purposes as being excellent at every element of the game?

Or did it just end up being spin from coaches?

I don't know what BMac means when he uses the term (probably what you said), but I can answer the question about what it means in soccer terms -- written about it in plenty of essays over the years. From a pure tactical perspective, it was simply demanding that every player had the capacity to play every position at any time as required -- prior to that term, more conventional teams like England etc. had very static positions, a defender was a defender etc., and when you remember that soccer and rugby has shared roots, you see where that tendency comes from.

However, some soccer nations, notably Hungary, and then Brazil, had already been taking positional fluidity to new heights with attacking full-backs etc. in the 1960s and 70s.

"Total football" was taking that fluidity to the next level -- its invention as a term is generally credited to Rinus Michels as coach of Ajax and the Dutch team in the early 70s, but it was also developed at the same time by Valeriy Lobanovski of Dinamo Kyiv and Russia, which were both great, tactically advanced teams back in the day. It starts from the point of 'systems' theory, where the constant combination and recombination of the energy of 11 elements in real-time beats a static interpretation of energy -- so even though it looked a little bit like the fluid football of the Brazilians, it was a lot more systematic (the Brazilians played instinctively and systems covered for them, whereas Total Football was a commitment to a very, very developed system, with expression allowed within it).

In everyday speak, it just means that instead of starting with a 'formation' or with a 'position', every player starts with the ability to solve problems as a group, and they constantly adjust according to that. In reality, it wasn't a totally fluid system, but they did end up with a LOT more goalscoring defenders. If you watch the first half of the 1974 World Cup final (which they ended up losing), you'll see an amazing display of interchanging and passing, which the more rigid West Germans couldn't get close to. They just didn't actually score, unfortunately.

--

Some thoughts: The reality is, in footy, we have been practicing some tenets of Total Football for a long time anyway -- a lot of AFL players can play both forward and back as required, and we've had plenty of half-back flankers kicking goals on the run. However, if BMac intends it to be a tactical development, this bodes well for us -- after all, the zone and the press were developed in soccer as positional responses to Inter Milan's catenaccio (essentially an uberflood), just as it has happened in our game, and one of the tactical responses to the zone (and early press) in soccer was Total Football.

Everyone knows that the current Barcelona team is the most tactically sophisticated team in the history of soccer. Well, their footballing philosophy descends directly from that Cruyff Total Football team.. Cruyff played at Barca for years and was their director of football as well, and Michels also coached there, and they have had a massive Dutch influence over the years, especially at academy level. Barca's version of total football is far, far more developed though -- it incorporates a wide range of tactical developments, INCLUDING the press, and yes, they are so systemically dynamic that teams struggle to defend against them.

As a short-term tactical 'development', Total Football for AFL is well and fine, but the reality is, as it is for Barcelona -- truly mature tactical development takes YEARS. This is where AFL tactical development will eventually end up; after the tactical upheaval of the last 10 years (I call 1996, the year Rocket introduced the flood, 'year zero' of footy's postmodern era), where we have packed a lot of evolution into a short time after a century of stagnation, we'll end up with an entire palatte of stuff to choose from. In stockmarket parlance, tactical innovation in AFL still a growth stock, and anyone who can bring in some fully developed tactical innovation from another sport is going to get some short-term advantage and be able to sneak a flag before the game moves past you again. In five to ten years, this rate of innovation will slow down (a mature stock), and we'll only see incremental rather than revolutionary growth. At this point, teams will have to eke out marginal improvements and returns (maximise dividends) to gain advantages.

Hope I didn't bore anyone.

[bornadog]

Your positivity gets in the way of reality sometimes.

Sorry Desi thats just not true. If you and Mantis read my post carefully you will see what I wrote. I never said that the young guys will be any good or stars or anything. I said one positive is they will have more games in them and hopefully contributing on a more consistent basis - in 2013.

I would rather go through life being positive that constantly negative like some posters.

[immortalmike]

Well your saying he is all words then your saying there is nothing else he could do.
So in affect your having a go at the bloke but then agreeing with what he is doing?
Your taking a wait and see approach ?
No your not your saying he is all words at the moment.
A wait and see approach would be no comment until you see.
Critisizing hiim being all talk, no one knows until the seasons in progress but most agree the things he says we lack is true.
You cant ask for more than a coach at this stage to recognize the weaknesses and he has been honest and said what he thinks they are.

How is saying this "Not much he (can) do at the moment but I've heard this all before. I hope Macca is the coach who can deliver though." having a go at someone?

At no stage did I say he's all talk. At the very most I raised the possibility that he may not deliver on those words in the same way Peter Rhode didn't. I even ended my post with a sincere hope that he'll deliver. What more do you want? Am I not allowed to temper the backslapping and congratulating with the raising of this possibility?

Basically what I'm saying is that his words are good but they are only words at the moment, hopefully they can be put into action. Blind optimism and blind pessimism are both stupid and I don't subscribe to either.

[immortalmike]

Your positivity gets in the way of reality sometimes.

Just a small question how is saying that Cross is both the youngest (fact) and fittest (fact of the list comprising Gia, Boyd, Cross, Murphy, Gilbee, Lake and Hargrave, needlessly positive?

It seems that the statement is a verifiable fact. Unless you are referring to his entire argument...

[bornadog]

Just a small question how is saying that Cross is both the youngest (fact) and fittest (fact of the list comprising Gia, Boyd, Cross, Murphy, Gilbee, Lake and Hargrave, needlessly positive?

It seems that the statement is a verifiable fact. Unless you are referring to his entire argument...

There are certain posters who just like to comment for the sake of a comment instead of having something constructive to say.

[immortalmike]

There are certain posters who just like to comment for the sake of a comment instead of having something constructive to say.

I'd like to give Desi the benefit of the doubt on this but what you say can be sometimes true of all of us. We can be a little quick to shoot down opinions we either don't like or don't agree with. I maybe have harped on about this a bit recently but I really like this board and I don't want it to turn into facebook or the other board, where all I've been reduced to doing is making fun of other posters.

[bornadog]

I'd like to give Desi the benefit of the doubt on this but what you say can be sometimes true of all of us. We can be a little quick to shoot down opinions we either don't like or don't agree with. I maybe have harped on about this a bit recently but I really like this board and I don't want it to turn into facebook or the other board, where all I've been reduced to doing is making fun of other posters.

Yes I agree, overall, the board doesn't resort to this, and certainly Desi is not in that category.

[Desipura]

Yes I agree, overall, the board doesn't resort to this, and certainly Desi is not in that category.
You see what Cross brings to the table with his fitness and immense courage.

I do not see how his fitness is superior to any other footballer playing, but what I do see is a serious lack of pace (Leigh Brown beat him in a race) in a game that is at frenetic pace. I also see how turnovers are more costly in todays game than ever before, he certainly does not deliver the ball well and in fact slows down the play so he does not turn it over).
When Cooney and Griffen are up and running I believe it masks our deficencies (lack of pace and ball use) somewhat in the midfield.

[LostDoggy]

Sorry Desi thats just not true. If you and Mantis read my post carefully you will see what I wrote. I never said that the young guys will be any good or stars or anything. I said one positive is they will have more games in them and hopefully contributing on a more consistent basis - in 2013.

I would rather go through life being positive that constantly negative like some posters.
Here Here, I'am a glass half empty type, but when it come to my beloved dogs I'am the complete opposite. Having said that Bulldogs for the 2012 flag. One thing I will get good odds !

[Ghost Dog]

I actually think we will be worse in 2013 than we are in 2012.

To be expected in the short term., Bell shaped curve. got to readjust to new situation before you can shift gears.

[Ghost Dog]

I don't know what BMac means when he uses the term (probably what you said), but I can answer the question about what it means in soccer terms -- written about it in plenty of essays over the years. From a pure tactical perspective, it was simply demanding that every player had the capacity to play every position at any time as required -- prior to that term, more conventional teams like England etc. had very static positions, a defender was a defender etc., and when you remember that soccer and rugby has shared roots, you see where that tendency comes from.

However, some soccer nations, notably Hungary, and then Brazil, had already been taking positional fluidity to new heights with attacking full-backs etc. in the 1960s and 70s.

"Total football" was taking that fluidity to the next level -- its invention as a term is generally credited to Rinus Michels as coach of Ajax and the Dutch team in the early 70s, but it was also developed at the same time by Valeriy Lobanovski of Dinamo Kyiv and Russia, which were both great, tactically advanced teams back in the day. It starts from the point of 'systems' theory, where the constant combination and recombination of the energy of 11 elements in real-time beats a static interpretation of energy -- so even though it looked a little bit like the fluid football of the Brazilians, it was a lot more systematic (the Brazilians played instinctively and systems covered for them, whereas Total Football was a commitment to a very, very developed system, with expression allowed within it).

In everyday speak, it just means that instead of starting with a 'formation' or with a 'position', every player starts with the ability to solve problems as a group, and they constantly adjust according to that. In reality, it wasn't a totally fluid system, but they did end up with a LOT more goalscoring defenders. If you watch the first half of the 1974 World Cup final (which they ended up losing), you'll see an amazing display of interchanging and passing, which the more rigid West Germans couldn't get close to. They just didn't actually score, unfortunately.

--

Some thoughts: The reality is, in footy, we have been practicing some tenets of Total Football for a long time anyway -- a lot of AFL players can play both forward and back as required, and we've had plenty of half-back flankers kicking goals on the run. However, if BMac intends it to be a tactical development, this bodes well for us -- after all, the zone and the press were developed in soccer as positional responses to Inter Milan's catenaccio (essentially an uberflood), just as it has happened in our game, and one of the tactical responses to the zone (and early press) in soccer was Total Football.

Everyone knows that the current Barcelona team is the most tactically sophisticated team in the history of soccer. Well, their footballing philosophy descends directly from that Cruyff Total Football team.. Cruyff played at Barca for years and was their director of football as well, and Michels also coached there, and they have had a massive Dutch influence over the years, especially at academy level. Barca's version of total football is far, far more developed though -- it incorporates a wide range of tactical developments, INCLUDING the press, and yes, they are so systemically dynamic that teams struggle to defend against them.

As a short-term tactical 'development', Total Football for AFL is well and fine, but the reality is, as it is for Barcelona -- truly mature tactical development takes YEARS. This is where AFL tactical development will eventually end up; after the tactical upheaval of the last 10 years (I call 1996, the year Rocket introduced the flood, 'year zero' of footy's postmodern era), where we have packed a lot of evolution into a short time after a century of stagnation, we'll end up with an entire palatte of stuff to choose from. In stockmarket parlance, tactical innovation in AFL still a growth stock, and anyone who can bring in some fully developed tactical innovation from another sport is going to get some short-term advantage and be able to sneak a flag before the game moves past you again. In five to ten years, this rate of innovation will slow down (a mature stock), and we'll only see incremental rather than revolutionary growth. At this point, teams will have to eke out marginal improvements and returns (maximise dividends) to gain advantages.

Hope I didn't bore anyone.

Jeezus C***** I feel like a dimwit after that outstanding precis. Fine reading! I think I'm gonna....just...read for a bit?
too intimidated to post now ! :D

[G-Mo77]

I actually think we will be worse in 2013 than we are in 2012.

I can't agree or disagree as a lot of my thoughts rest on hope.

Libba and Wallis will have another season under their belts and I'm pretty positive both will be great footballers. Jones is really starting to come of age and natural progression should make him a much better footballer by 2013. Hopefully Grant (yes I still have hope), Roughead, Cordy and a few others prosper from having to shoulder a heavier load.

Sadly it all has the potential to go belly up as well and we may bottom out completely. I am concerned that we still rely on the older brigade far to much which is why 2012 we should be looking to give some of the younger players much more responsibility on the field than we have over the past few seasons.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

All I'm hearing is a lot of rhetoric
Do not underestimate rhetoric. The most powerful motivators of history have excellent rhetoric. Any great coach has it. It is essential for any leader.


I don't know what BMac means when he uses the term (probably what you said), but I can answer the question about what it means in soccer terms -- written about it in plenty of essays over the years. From a pure tactical perspective, it was simply demanding that every player had the capacity to play every position at any time as required -- prior to that term, more conventional teams like England etc. had very static positions, a defender was a defender etc., and when you remember that soccer and rugby has shared roots, you see where that tendency comes from.

However, some soccer nations, notably Hungary, and then Brazil, had already been taking positional fluidity to new heights with attacking full-backs etc. in the 1960s and 70s.

"Total football" was taking that fluidity to the next level -- its invention as a term is generally credited to Rinus Michels as coach of Ajax and the Dutch team in the early 70s, but it was also developed at the same time by Valeriy Lobanovski of Dinamo Kyiv and Russia, which were both great, tactically advanced teams back in the day. It starts from the point of 'systems' theory, where the constant combination and recombination of the energy of 11 elements in real-time beats a static interpretation of energy -- so even though it looked a little bit like the fluid football of the Brazilians, it was a lot more systematic (the Brazilians played instinctively and systems covered for them, whereas Total Football was a commitment to a very, very developed system, with expression allowed within it).

In everyday speak, it just means that instead of starting with a 'formation' or with a 'position', every player starts with the ability to solve problems as a group, and they constantly adjust according to that. In reality, it wasn't a totally fluid system, but they did end up with a LOT more goalscoring defenders. If you watch the first half of the 1974 World Cup final (which they ended up losing), you'll see an amazing display of interchanging and passing, which the more rigid West Germans couldn't get close to. They just didn't actually score, unfortunately.

--

Some thoughts: The reality is, in footy, we have been practicing some tenets of Total Football for a long time anyway -- a lot of AFL players can play both forward and back as required, and we've had plenty of half-back flankers kicking goals on the run. However, if BMac intends it to be a tactical development, this bodes well for us -- after all, the zone and the press were developed in soccer as positional responses to Inter Milan's catenaccio (essentially an uberflood), just as it has happened in our game, and one of the tactical responses to the zone (and early press) in soccer was Total Football.

Everyone knows that the current Barcelona team is the most tactically sophisticated team in the history of soccer. Well, their footballing philosophy descends directly from that Cruyff Total Football team.. Cruyff played at Barca for years and was their director of football as well, and Michels also coached there, and they have had a massive Dutch influence over the years, especially at academy level. Barca's version of total football is far, far more developed though -- it incorporates a wide range of tactical developments, INCLUDING the press, and yes, they are so systemically dynamic that teams struggle to defend against them.

As a short-term tactical 'development', Total Football for AFL is well and fine, but the reality is, as it is for Barcelona -- truly mature tactical development takes YEARS. This is where AFL tactical development will eventually end up; after the tactical upheaval of the last 10 years (I call 1996, the year Rocket introduced the flood, 'year zero' of footy's postmodern era), where we have packed a lot of evolution into a short time after a century of stagnation, we'll end up with an entire palatte of stuff to choose from. In stockmarket parlance, tactical innovation in AFL still a growth stock, and anyone who can bring in some fully developed tactical innovation from another sport is going to get some short-term advantage and be able to sneak a flag before the game moves past you again. In five to ten years, this rate of innovation will slow down (a mature stock), and we'll only see incremental rather than revolutionary growth. At this point, teams will have to eke out marginal improvements and returns (maximise dividends) to gain advantages.

Hope I didn't bore anyone.

Thanks that makes it easy to understand the development of tactics in soccer and footy. Its interesting how transferable these skills are between codes. Tactics would be more critical in soccer because of the difficulty in scoring, smaller goals and smaller playing field. The length of time it takes for a coach to develop or inculcate tactics in a playing group seems to be a few years, during which the team's results can actually go backwards.

[Mofra]

Thanks that makes it easy to understand the development of tactics in soccer and footy. Its interesting how transferable these skills are between codes. Tactics would be more critical in soccer because of the difficulty in scoring, smaller goals and smaller playing field. The length of time it takes for a coach to develop or inculcate tactics in a playing group seems to be a few years, during which the team's results can actually go backwards.
When kicking out, Terry Wallace adopted a system from basketball that worked quite well for a number of years - had it explained to me years ago by a (now) basketball hall of famer.
"Pitch & roll" or something similar was the name

[AndrewP6]

When kicking out, Terry Wallace adopted a system from basketball that worked quite well for a number of years - had it explained to me years ago by a (now) basketball hall of famer.
"Pitch & roll" or something similar was the name

Theres a basketball tactic called a "pick and roll", is that it?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Theres a basketball tactic called a "pick and roll", is that it?

What's that involve Andrew?

[Mofra]

Theres a basketball tactic called a "pick and roll", is that it?
That would most likely be it

[AndrewP6]

What's that involve Andrew?

THis could be hard without a diagram :) . Here goes:

Player A (often the ball carrier) is being closely guarded. Their teammate, Player B, moves up, and stands in a spot where Player A can move forward, 'running' the defender into the teammate (This is the 'pick'). If done effectively, this should leave the defender behind the play, and give an advantage to the offensive team. The "roll" is when Player B, after setting the pick, moves towards the basket, and then often receives a pass for an easy (or easier) shot. As an old mate of mine (an American born, adopted Aussie) would often tell me... "The one who sets the picks gets the chicks" :)

The theory being if you work to get your teammates free, it can result in you getting the shot.

There, clear as mud? :)

[hujsh]

Even knowing what a pick and roll is it's hard to see how it was applied to AFL.

[Mofra]

Even knowing what a pick and roll is it's hard to see how it was applied to AFL.
Was done via ball movement, involving a kick back to the player who kicked out.

Put Collingwood's illegal (but often unpaid) blocking of the man on the mark in 2010 & 2011 in a new light

[BornInDroopSt'54]

THis could be hard without a diagram :) . Here goes:

Player A (often the ball carrier) is being closely guarded. Their teammate, Player B, moves up, and stands in a spot where Player A can move forward, 'running' the defender into the teammate (This is the 'pick'). If done effectively, this should leave the defender behind the play, and give an advantage to the offensive team. The "roll" is when Player B, after setting the pick, moves towards the basket, and then often receives a pass for an easy (or easier) shot. As an old mate of mine (an American born, adopted Aussie) would often tell me... "The one who sets the picks gets the chicks" :)

The theory being if you work to get your teammates free, it can result in you getting the shot.

There, clear as mud? :)

Like double teaming to create a loose player and in the case of kicking out, gaining space to clear out of the defensive 50.
So a coach like McCartney really needs his players to be familiar with these tactics both to implement them and to be aware of the possibility of their opponents using them, in order to play 'total' football.