Who gets delisted?

[The Coon Dog]

Now that trade week has concluded, who gets delisted?

For me Mulligan would, but I understand he's contracted, likewise Hooper, so they gain a reprieve.

I'd elevate both Dahlhaus & Panos.

I'd delist Addison & Prato.

So, how does that pan out?

Off: Reid, Hill, Hudson, Hall, Hahn, Addison & Prato.

On: Panos, Dahlhaus & draftees.

[EasternWest]

For mine I'd take the hit and delist Mulligan and Hooper. Being out of contract, Addison and Stack are no brainers.

With Ward, Hudson, Hill and Hall gone that means eight new players required. Dahlhaus already elevated, and Panos deserving due to good VFL form and doing everything asked of him. Barlow stays on rookie list. Six new inclusions. That's enough for this year I reckon, with the view to another 7 or so next year.

I'm done with sentimentality. Let's get them young, train them right and build our own premiership team. If they're not going to get us there, get rid of them. Harsh, but I'm tired of missing out.

[soupman]

I'd give Stack another year. I think he actually could be a capable AFL player, and is still suffering from confidence issues. Whether or not he achieves what i think he can remains to be seen, but worst case scenario is his spot opens up pick 83 next year instead of pick 83 this year.

Addison however is gone, so I'd have my outs reading as:

Out: Ward, Hudson, Hall, Reid, Hill, Addison, Prato (rookie), Hahn (rookie)

In: Dahlhaus, Panos, draftees.

Therefore the same as TCD

[Greystache]

Excluding the players traded out and retired

Main list- Addison, Stack

Rookies- Prato, Hahn

Promote Dahlhaus and Panos.

That leaves 5 draft selections and 4 rookie selections.

Mulligan and Hooper need to go, but I'd cut deeper next year in an umcompromised draft and use our compensation picks.

[bornadog]

Excluding the players traded out and retired

Main list- Addison, Stack

Rookies- Prato, Hahn

Promote Dahlhaus and Panos.

That leaves 5 draft selections and 4 rookie selections.

Mulligan and Hooper need to go, but I'd cut deeper next year in an umcompromised draft and use our compensation picks.

Would you leave Barlow as a Rookie ie for one of the 4?

[Greystache]

Would you leave Barlow as a Rookie ie for one of the 4?

Yep, I'd keep him and Johannissen on the rookie list.

[The Doctor]

My take would be

Out: Ward, Hall, Reid, Hudson, Hill, Skinner (Prato and Hahn from rookie list)

Upgrade: Panos, Dalhaus

that would give us 4 picks, 17, 39, 49 & 57

-----------------------------------------------------

If any of Gilbee, Hooper and Mulligan are uncontracted then they go too and we use any remaining picks for the ND or PSD.

-----------------------------------------------------

One more chance for Addison & Stack.

[Drunken Bum]

If it were up to me

Out: Ward, Hall, Reid, Hudson, Hill, Hooper, Mulligan.
Yes i am aware that the last two are contracted but i don't believe they do or will offer us anything, they would be on minimum wage or close to it and we have room to move in the salary cap so it won't affect us there paying them out.

I would offer both Stack and Addison a one year contract, take it or leave it, if one or both leave, Hooper and/or Mulligan see out their contract before delisting.

Upgrade: Panos, Dalhaus

that would give us 4 picks, 17, 39, 49, 57 & 70

Barlow and Johannson(sp?) retained on rookie list

[bornadog]

My take would be

Out: Ward, Hall, Reid, Hudson, Hill, Skinner (Prato and Hahn from rookie list)

Upgrade: Panos, Dalhaus

that would give us 4 picks, 17, 39, 49 & 57

-----------------------------------------------------

If any of Gilbee, Hooper and Mulligan are uncontracted then they go too and we use any remaining picks for the ND or PSD.

-----------------------------------------------------

One more chance for Addison & Stack.

This sounds sensible and gives us on top of Panos and Dahlhaus another 4 fresh players, plus Tom Hill hasn't debuted, and still having ND and PSD for more possibles.

[Bulldog Joe]

I am inclined towards retiring Gilbee. Perhaps give him Hahn's rookie spot to coach at Willi and a specialist kicking coach for the team.

That could honour his contract and free up a spot. It would also allow Lake onto the veteran's list for salary cap space if we still need it.

On the playing field I think Stack and Addison both have more to offer than Gilbee.

I also see limited hope for Mulligan and Hooper. If the contracts are an issue perhaps they can go back to the rookie list.

Uograde for Dahlhaus and Panos.

[bulldogsman]

Out - Hudson, Hall, Hill, Reid, Ward, Mulligan, Addison
Upgrade - Panos, Dahlhaus
Retain - Barlow, Johannissen

Gives us 5 picks.

I don't see a long term future with Hooper either, but he had a few reasonable games and gives us some depth.

[anfo27]

Out: Hudson, Hall, Reid, Ward, Hill, Hahn, Prato & Stack
Upgrade: Panos & Dollhouse

Leave us with 4 picks and next year cut deeper with Gilbee & Shaggy retiring, Hooper, Addison, Mulligan delisted with possibly Skinner & Moles to join them.

[ReLoad]

Out: Hudson, Hall, Ward, Reid, Hill, Hahn, Prato, Addison, Stack, Barlow and Mulligan.

There is no value whatsoever in hanging onto any of them, they are not going to improve over the next 12 months. We are better of getting a look at some kids who at least have the potential to be something, rather than those who do not.

Upgrage of Panos (he is worth a roll of the dice) and Dollhouse is a lock in.

Johan is a coin toss, he really didnt set the world on fire, but has shown glimpses. (so hang onto him.
Whilst Barlow is great cover, I would rather us be giving a kid a game, as opposed to someone who we have already seen the best of.

11 changes, that's probably too many, but I do not see the value in holding onto turnips.

[Mantis]

I don't see a long term future with Hooper either, but he had a few reasonable games and gives us some depth.

But is only a one position player so what cover does he really add?

At least with someone like Stack or Addison they can play a number of roles.

[stefoid]

Tell me about Skinner and Prato. Why are they gone?

Stack, I would keep and let Bmac see what he can do with him. Upside.

Skinner still contracted.

I think Addison is the one I would cut. Just cant see his disposal getting any better.

Take 4 picks in the ND

Two new rookies. three is we delist prato.

[AndrewP6]

Tell me about Skinner and Prato. Why are they gone?


Skinner, apart from some nice leaps here and there, hasn't shown much. Looks lost, doesn't threaten a lot, and lacks a tank. Prato from all accounts has the build but that's about it.

[LostDoggy]

Geez, Skinner fell out pretty quickly. Unless he's massively homesick why delist him? He's only been here for one season. I think he's shown plenty this season for his relative draft position, besides, he's still got a year left at least. DA, Mulligan, Hooper and Stack have had their go.

[G-Mo77]

Out
Hall
Hudson
Josh Hill
Callan Ward
Sam Reid

Delist
Mulligan

In
Matthew Panos
Luke Dahlhaus

Rookie List
Ed Barlow
Jason Johannissen

4 picks in the Draft which I think is enough.

[Cyberdoggie]

Geez, Skinner fell out pretty quickly. Unless he's massively homesick why delist him? He's only been here for one season. I think he's shown plenty this season for his relative draft position, besides, he's still got a year left at least. DA, Mulligan, Hooper and Stack have had their go.

It was always going to be very tough for him this year.
That showed with some reasonable form early in the year before tailoring off as winter came. I think he also had to go home a couple of times as well, might need to confirm that.

If he's refreshed after a break he may be a more mature person next year and his football may also improve.

Certainly not worth delisting him just yet.

Prato hasn't shown anything, Addison should go, and i would look at promoting Panos, Barlow and Dahlhaus. I can't see us drafting too many players this year, especially with those late picks.

[w3design]

But is only a one position player so what cover does he really add?

At least with someone like Stack or Addison they can play a number of roles.

In super coach Hooper is listed in 2 position's Back and forward could he play on the small forwards as a back pocket shut down role.

[LostDoggy]

Out: Hall, Hudson, Ward, Reid, Hill

Delist: Addison or Stack - depends what Macca thinks he can get out of them. Hooper if we afford it.

In: Dahlhaus, Barlow (for depth)

Rookie: Panos and Johannissen

Skinner also hurt his knee towards the end of the year. Missed a couple of weeks, brought back into Willy via the two's. I think he played one reserves game then was back in the one's, but may have only played one final (?). Doesn't quite read the play well enough yet but is worth another go around.

Prato hasn't really shown anything. Panos showed that he could play forward and back - only saw one match of his in the backline and it wasn't too bad, would look at another rookie year, he's still young and developing.

Johannissen started showing a bit towards the end of the year, managed to break into Willy's ones and retain his spot.

Hooper just doesn't offer enough. He's quick, but then are a couple of the 1-2 yr players (plus Sherman) so I don't see him having a role to play - pity he is still contracted.

Always feel sorry of Addison, is such a hard worker and versatile but just doesn't have it to go at AFL level. How is it we end up with so many players who are superstars at VFL level but do diddly squat in the AFL. May be worth keeping for depth.

Stack has confidence issues. Generally that's not something that can be fixed. But he offers a bit as a back flanker - when his disposel is up, or as a forward. With moving Hill on he may have a position there.

As for Mulligan - someone at the club must have seen something. You don't give a guy 3 years because he's tall and and built.... if he's contracted may as well keep him and see what happens.

[Mantis]

In super coach Hooper is listed in 2 position's Back and forward could he play on the small forwards as a back pocket shut down role.

At the minute I can't see Hooper being able to play on any of our oppositions small forwards.

He needs a massive pre-season, needs to drop some weight and build his tank.

[Greystache]

In super coach Hooper is listed in 2 position's Back and forward could he play on the small forwards as a back pocket shut down role.

Not only is he so short he would be exposed in the air, but for a player so short he also really lacks agility. He runs in straight lines and straight lines only.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Out
Hall
Hudson
Josh Hill
Callan Ward
Sam Reid

Delist
Mulligan

In
Matthew Panos
Luke Dahlhaus

Rookie List
Ed Barlow
Jason Johannissen

4 picks in the Draft which I think is enough.

This.



Mulligan has been on the senior list for two years and there is simply no possibility that he got three. He simply must be out of contract.

Gilbee, Hargrave, Addison, Skinner & Hooper all go next year.

We'll have 4 picks in the top 40 and we should have our major cleanout then.

[LostDoggy]

According to a list (http://www.fanfooty.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=22296.0)on FanFooty Mulligan is out of contract. It seems pretty accurate on all other out of contract names, although it does list Jarrad Boumann and Shane Thorne.

[GVGjr]

According to a list (http://www.fanfooty.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=22296.0)on FanFooty Mulligan is out of contract. It seems pretty accurate on all other out of contract names, although it does list Jarrad Boumann and Shane Thorne.


Yes, I believe he is out of contract.

[Ghost Dog]

At the minute I can't see Hooper being able to play on any of our oppositions small forwards.

He needs a massive pre-season, needs to drop some weight and build his tank.

BMac will sort the little guy out. I'm sure.

[Scraggers]

According to a list (http://www.fanfooty.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=22296.0)on FanFooty Mulligan is out of contract. It seems pretty accurate on all other out of contract names, although it does list Jarrad Boumann and Shane Thorne.

Thanks for the link ... I question its accuracy though; it still lists Everitt as a Bulldog.

[Remi Moses]

I'm with G Mo's selection. Put Dylan Addison in the out tray

[chef]

Skinner, apart from some nice leaps here and there, hasn't shown much. Looks lost, doesn't threaten a lot, and lacks a tank. Prato from all accounts has the build but that's about it.

Hasn't done a real pre season yet, hope they hang onto him for at least another season.

[Raw Toast]

Not only is he so short he would be exposed in the air, but for a player so short he also really lacks agility. He runs in straight lines and straight lines only.

I'm not a fan of Hooper's but he did play most of his junior footy as a defender, and won an award for it, so in a compromised and apparently shallow draft, I'm happy to give him another year (which he's contracted for anyway), and to see if he can do anything down back. Picken isn't suited to the role down there, so can't hurt to trial another option.

[Mantis]

I'm not a fan of Hooper's but he did play most of his junior footy as a defender, and won an award for it, so in a compromised and apparently shallow draft, I'm happy to give him another year (which he's contracted for anyway), and to see if he can do anything down back. Picken isn't suited to the role down there, so can't hurt to trial another option.

You find many more very short players in the TAC Cup than you do at AFL level which is probably why he did well.

Who from other clubs would you be happy to see Hooper stand next too?

[GVGjr]

Out
Hall
Hudson
Josh Hill
Callan Ward
Sam Reid

Delist
Mulligan

In
Matthew Panos
Luke Dahlhaus

Rookie List
Ed Barlow
Jason Johannissen

4 picks in the Draft which I think is enough.

I agree with Sockeyes view on this however, I still think we need to delist at least one more given what we might be looking at in another 12 months. I'm not sure if it should be Hooper, Addison, Moles or Gilbee but we need to cut a little deeper now.

[G-Mo77]

I agree with Sockeyes view on this however, I still think we need to delist at least one more given what we might be looking at in another 12 months. I'm not sure if it should be Hooper, Addison, Moles or Gilbee but we need to cut a little deeper now.

I think Moles is safe, I'm pretty sure he has another year on his contract same goes with Hooper.

Addison was shopped according to some of the media outlets so he could be the other.

[GVGjr]

I think Moles is safe, I'm pretty sure he has another year on his contract same goes with Hooper.

Addison was shopped according to some of the media outlets so he could be the other.


There are a few considerations in determining if we cut a bit deeper but with what we are faced with again in 12 months I don't think it's worth waiting another year.

[bornadog]

I agree with Sockeyes view on this however, I still think we need to delist at least one more given what we might be looking at in another 12 months. I'm not sure if it should be Hooper, Addison, Moles or Gilbee but we need to cut a little deeper now.

Gilbee's age is against him as well as his poor performance over the past two years. I would be looking at Gilbee or Addison, however, the jury is still out on Hooper and Moles as AFL footballers.

[G-Mo77]

Gilbee, Moles and Hooper are all under contract. (I'm pretty sure)

Only chance out of that to part ways with is Gilbee if he retires.

I'm pretty sure Stack is out of contract as well so he's another name that could be put on the chopping block.

[Dancin' Douggy]

At the risk of sounding like 'tanking'. We should cut hard while we still have the live compensation pick.

[bulldogsman]

But is only a one position player so what cover does he really add?

At least with someone like Stack or Addison they can play a number of roles.

I realise he doesn't add much, but he's still contracted for next year and I'm hoping he proves me wrong.

[Mantis]

I realise he doesn't add much, but he's still contracted for next year and I'm hoping he proves me wrong.

I hope the coaching staff get in his ear pretty hard and demand he changes his body shape over the coming months. Matt Panos was told to lose his chunky rear end over last years pre-season, which he did, and we saw a much more versatile player this year.

If Hooper can drop a few kilo's it might help him improve his endurance and agility which will give his game a needed boost.

[soupman]

I hope the coaching staff get in his ear pretty hard and demand he changes his body shape over the coming months. Matt Panos was told to lose his chunky rear end over last years pre-season, which he did, and we saw a much more versatile player this year.

If Hooper can drop a few kilo's it might help him improve his endurance and agility which will give his game a needed boost.

That's Hoopers only chan ce to make it really. His body atm limits him so much that we may never see him anywhere other than a pocket, and players who are purely forward/back pockets a pretty much dead these days, if not already. Especially one's who don't regularly kick goals.

[GVGjr]

I wonder if both/either Gilbee and Hargrave intend to go on and how much that will shape the departures?
I think we can get a more than decent season from Hargrave but I'm more skeptical about what we might get out of Gilbee. Gilbee proved in one game up forward that he's still a dangerous player with the footy in his hand but with a few other small forwards already replacing one of them won't be easy.

[gohardorgohome]

Hooper has kicked six goals in six games ( 1 per game) ....thats really about par for a small forward. Some doggies supporters rated Steve Kolynuik and he kicked 198 goals in 177 games (average 1.11 per game).

He is not a world beater. However he is only 20 and rated highly by some people I have met from Ballarat area. Worth one more year to prove himself.

[stefoid]

Hooper has kicked six goals in six games ( 1 per game) ....thats really about par for a small forward. Some doggies supporters rated Steve Kolynuik and he kicked 198 goals in 177 games (average 1.11 per game).

He is not a world beater. However he is only 20 and rated highly by some people I have met from Ballarat area. Worth one more year to prove himself.

Needs to commit his body to the ball at ground level. An insane attack on the man and the ball may save his career.

[Bulldog4life]

I wonder if both/either Gilbee and Hargrave intend to go on and how much that will shape the departures?
I think we can get a more than decent season from Hargrave but I'm more skeptical about what we might get out of Gilbee. Gilbee proved in one game up forward that he's still a dangerous player with the footy in his hand but with a few other small forwards already replacing one of them won't be easy.

After his 6 goal display against Richmond I thought it was strange that he was never played in that position again, especially since he was struggling down back.

[GVGjr]

After his 6 goal display against Richmond I thought it was strange that he was never played in that position again, especially since he was struggling down back.

Pretty sure he played there the following week and copped the hard tag and was ineffective.
I stand to be corrected though

[Mantis]

Hooper has kicked six goals in six games ( 1 per game) ....thats really about par for a small forward. Some doggies supporters rated Steve Kolynuik and he kicked 198 goals in 177 games (average 1.11 per game).

He is not a world beater. However he is only 20 and rated highly by some people I have met from Ballarat area. Worth one more year to prove himself.

Goals per game isn't the issue as he has a knack of popping up and kicking a few... it's what else he brings to the table that's the concern.

And isn't it amazing that a Ballarat boy is highly rated by the locals. ;)

[mjp]

There are a few considerations in determining if we cut a bit deeper but with what we are faced with again in 12 months I don't think it's worth waiting another year.

It is not where we start cutting that is the problem...it is how do you stop?

For me, there is really not much point in continuing with Addison, Moles, Skinner, Hooper, Mulligan or Prato...or, being really harsh - Gilbee.

I think Stack will survive, I think Moles will survive and I think (because he is contracted) that Hooper survives.

[bornadog]

It is not where we start cutting that is the problem...it is how do you stop?

For me, there is really not much point in continuing with Addison, Moles, Skinner, Hooper, Mulligan or Prato...or, being really harsh - Gilbee.

I think Stack will survive, I think Moles will survive and I think (because he is contracted) that Hooper survives.

It would be interesting to see what impact in dollars this would have if we cut this deeply, but as you say its what needs to happen.

[bulldogtragic]

Do we then go youth, or look at a Bower or Satanta or the like with a late pick.

[LostDoggy]

It's hard to find a spot for Hooper. Could he be reinvented as an extraction midfielder. He'd have to work on his endurance massively. Cons would be he'd join our elite in that area of average kicks.

As I said, hard to find anywhere else for him with Tutt, Wallis, Libba and Schoey coming along, DJ predominately playing his position and Moles already having the role just described.

[bulldogtragic]

It's hard to find a spot for Hooper. Could he be reinvented as an extraction midfielder. He'd have to work on his endurance massively. Cons would be he'd join our elite in that area of average kicks.

As I said, hard to find anywhere else for him with Tutt, Wallis, Libba and Schoey coming along, DJ predominately playing his position and Moles already having the role just described.
Wasn't Hooper VicMetro captain out of the back pocket - fair chance i could be wrong. But why not try him along the lines Harbrow used to be played?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Hooper has kicked six goals in six games ( 1 per game) ....thats really about par for a small forward. Some doggies supporters rated Steve Kolynuik and he kicked 198 goals in 177 games (average 1.11 per game).

He is not a world beater. However he is only 20 and rated highly by some people I have met from Ballarat area. Worth one more year to prove himself.

Hooper. Kolyniuk. Same sentence. No.

[Rocco Jones]

When I think of delistings I try to imagine whether I would look twice at some of our players if they were playing state league footy or at another team and were available for nothing.

Imagine Stack and Addison weren't on our list, would we even consider picking either one with our last selection? I would think not. If we wouldn't even look at them, let alone want them, why keep them on?

I have mentioned it on WOOF before but I would also let go of Moles. I know it's harsh but I don't really see what he offers us. At his best maybe some running depth but his role is also probably perfect for kids who can at the very least go close to producing the same.

I'd let go of Shaggy, Gilbee and Hopper as well if they weren't contracted. My point is, don't keep guys you don't actually want because there's too many of them. If you wouldn't draft them, delist them! (unless it's a rewarding loyalty thing).

Do we think Moles, Addison and/or Stack will get picked up? We can always just rookie them.

[Mofra]

Wasn't Hooper VicMetro captain out of the back pocket - fair chance i could be wrong. But why not try him along the lines Harbrow used to be played?
Hooper doesn't have the same agility/lateral speed at Harbrow so would play more lockdown, and it seems Picken has been playing that role quite a bit.

He's actually quite quick over the 20m in a straight line; he basically has to find a way of making it as either a small forward (Dalhaus coming from nowhere last year makes this hard) or a hard running high forward type (a fit Sherman and/or Vez and/or Tutt make this difficult too) his opportunities are going to be limited. Realistically he's behind quite a few in the pecking order.

[LostDoggy]

Any chance we can delist James Fantasia because he doesnt appear to be capable of negotiating deals during trade week.

After listening to his interview on SEN, he wasnt able to achieve any of the dealings he said they were aiming for.

[ReLoad]

Any chance we can delist James Fantasia because he doesnt appear to be capable of negotiating deals during trade week.

After listening to his interview on SEN, he wasnt able to achieve any of the dealings he said they were aiming for.

What deal in particular didn't he get through thats grabbed your attention?

[Mantis]

Wasn't Hooper VicMetro captain out of the back pocket - fair chance i could be wrong. But why not try him along the lines Harbrow used to be played?

Harbrow wasn't a great defender, did ok until his shoulders gave way, but he was quick (staright line speed is ok I guess), agile, creative and could run all day - Hooper doesn't do any of those all that well.

edit - Gazumped by Mofra.

[GVGjr]

Any chance we can delist James Fantasia because he doesnt appear to be capable of negotiating deals during trade week.

After listening to his interview on SEN, he wasnt able to achieve any of the dealings he said they were aiming for.

Trading doesn't always work out perfectly. According to our coach before the draft week the aim was minimal changes so to that end it's roughly what we expected. We didn't have a lot of currency other than the Ward compensation pick and maybe our aim is to use that next year.

[Ghost Dog]

Hooper doesn't have the same agility/lateral speed at Harbrow so would play more lockdown, and it seems Picken has been playing that role quite a bit.

He's actually quite quick over the 20m in a straight line; he basically has to find a way of making it as either a small forward (Dalhaus coming from nowhere last year makes this hard) or a hard running high forward type (a fit Sherman and/or Vez and/or Tutt make this difficult too) his opportunities are going to be limited. Realistically he's behind quite a few in the pecking order.

His best chance IMO is to try and go all out and be a contested ball winner.
If you can get your hands first on the footy, you're in.
With Boyd, Cross getting on, maybe he could be the new Libba?
However, extremely doubtful at this stage. The games I went to, he looked pretty shakey and lacked confidence.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

It is not where we start cutting that is the problem...it is how do you stop?

For me, there is really not much point in continuing with Addison, Moles, Skinner, Hooper, Mulligan or Prato...or, being really harsh - Gilbee.

I think Stack will survive, I think Moles will survive and I think (because he is contracted) that Hooper survives.

Stack told my nephew he didn't want to stay:eek:

[Mofra]

We have the new Libba - his name is Libba :cool:

[stefoid]

Stack told my nephew he didn't want to stay:eek:

Well that simplifies things greatly

[Bulldog4life]

Excluding the players traded out and retired

Main list- Addison, Stack

Rookies- Prato, Hahn

Promote Dahlhaus and Panos.

That leaves 5 draft selections and 4 rookie selections.

Mulligan and Hooper need to go, but I'd cut deeper next year in an umcompromised draft and use our compensation picks.

If true that Stack wants to go this is how I would go too. This gives us a good number (9) of new players to the list.

[Maddog37]

I think it is too early to tell with Skinner.

Hooper is only worth persisting with if he changes his body shape. Easier said than done though you would think by looking at him. There is alt of Gary Moorcroft about him.

[Maddog37]

Any chance we can delist James Fantasia because he doesnt appear to be capable of negotiating deals during trade week.

After listening to his interview on SEN, he wasnt able to achieve any of the dealings he said they were aiming for.

So he should of handed over first round pick for Bate to get the deal done?

[Remi Moses]

So he should of handed over first round pick for Bate to get the deal done?

Agree, it's amazing how datsun 180 B's become ferari's in trade week.
Couldn't get Crouch because we didn't have a pick High enough for him.
Wouldn't give a 1St rounder for a Fringe player
Caddy only wanted Essendon( lesson for GC, it's impossible to deal with them)
The rest are just canon fodder. We got picks for 2 players who would have been delisted

[G-Mo77]

Stack told my nephew he didn't want to stay:eek:

Beggars can't be choosers.

Bye bye Brennan.

[LostDoggy]

Caddy only wanted Essendon( lesson for GC, it's impossible to deal with them)
The rest are just canon fodder. We got picks for 2 players who would have been delisted
I found that one strange. I heard the manager speak like a politician trying to explain how Essendon was the only club Caddy prepared to deal with.
I find it hard to believe. Would like to hear from Clayton.
If he is as good as they say he could be, I would have offer our ward compo and 17(or a player).

[azabob]

I found that one strange. I heard the manager speak like a politician trying to explain how Essendon was the only club Caddy prepared to deal with.
I find it hard to believe. Would like to hear from Clayton.
If he is as good as they say he could be, I would have offer our ward compo and 17(or a player).

Chops, according to Emma Quayle and Marcus Ashcroft we did try and get Caddy.

This is from today's article.



Suns football manager Marcus Ashcroft yesterday expressed frustration that the club had been asked to deal solely with Essendon, as Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs made fruitless last-hour inquiries, however the Caddy camp believed the club had preferred this option all along because neither of them wanted to give the impression that he was available for auction.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-fail-to-snare-caddy-20111017-1ltds.html

[Hotdog60]

Chops, according to Emma Quayle and Marcus Ashcroft we did try and get Caddy.

This is from today's article.



Suns football manager Marcus Ashcroft yesterday expressed frustration that the club had been asked to deal solely with Essendon, as Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs made fruitless last-hour inquiries, however the Caddy camp believed the club had preferred this option all along because neither of them wanted to give the impression that he was available for auction.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-fail-to-snare-caddy-20111017-1ltds.html

So if it was just to get back to Melbourne because of he's father health wasn't all of the story, it was more of a case of wanting to play for the Bombers otherwise he would have entertained any Melbourne based club.

After reading that I wouldn't want him as I would query his commitment.

[LostDoggy]

According to Emma Quayle's article (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/national-draft-looming-small-for-most-clubs-20111018-1lyr3.html) we will be making 4 selections plus rookie upgrades. So if we only upgrade Dahlhaus we won't need to delist anybody (Five spots currently available due to loss of Hill, Reid, Hudson, Hall and Ward). But if we upgrade more then one rookie we will need to delist someone.

[Sockeye Salmon]

According to Emma Quayle's article (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/national-draft-looming-small-for-most-clubs-20111018-1lyr3.html) we will be making 4 selections plus rookie upgrades. So if we only upgrade Dahlhaus we won't need to delist anybody (Five spots currently available due to loss of Hill, Reid, Hudson, Hall and Ward). But if we upgrade more then one rookie we will need to delist someone.

Straight choice - Mulligan or Panos

Pretty easy decision

[Greystache]

According to Emma Quayle's article (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/national-draft-looming-small-for-most-clubs-20111018-1lyr3.html) we will be making 4 selections plus rookie upgrades. So if we only upgrade Dahlhaus we won't need to delist anybody (Five spots currently available due to loss of Hill, Reid, Hudson, Hall and Ward). But if we upgrade more then one rookie we will need to delist someone.

I'd think we'd upgrade Panos too. To me that means Stack or Addison will go as well.

[Remi Moses]

I found that one strange. I heard the manager speak like a politician trying to explain how Essendon was the only club Caddy prepared to deal with.
I find it hard to believe. Would like to hear from Clayton.
If he is as good as they say he could be, I would have offer our ward compo and 17(or a player).

Not doubting the kids motives, but if he was keen to return to Melb why didn't he want to join anyone else? Hopefully they'll start falling out of the trees up there.
Little revenge for Harbrow would be nice.

[Desipura]

I found that one strange. I heard the manager speak like a politician trying to explain how Essendon was the only club Caddy prepared to deal with.
I find it hard to believe. Would like to hear from Clayton.
If he is as good as they say he could be, I would have offer our ward compo and 17(or a player).

We tried to negotiate for Caddy in the final hours however they would not let us.

[westdog54]

I'd think we'd upgrade Panos too. To me that means Stack or Addison will go as well.

Do you think Mulligan would be in the gun before either of Stack or Addison?

[soupman]

Do you think Mulligan would be in the gun before either of Stack or Addison?

I think the vast majority will argue that he should be, but as he is a impressively athletic (and yes, unimpressively hopeless) tall player we may believe that he is worth giving another chance to ahead of the other two.

[Greystache]

Do you think Mulligan would be in the gun before either of Stack or Addison?

In terms of ability he should be, I just think we might keep him one more year as cover for Lake/Morris/Williams who have injury concerns. Unless the recruiters have a state league player in mind we think we can get.

[Mantis]

In terms of ability he should be, I just think we might keep him one more year as cover for Lake/Morris/Williams who have injury concerns. Unless the recruiters have a state league player in mind we think we can get.

Would moving Barlow onto the main list instead of renewing Mulligan be an option?

Over the last few games Barlow played a key role in defence and wasn't horrible... well not Mulligan horrible anyway. In Barlow's favour is that he can also fill-in in other roles when/ if required.

[Greystache]

Would moving Barlow onto the main list instead of renewing Mulligan be an option?

Over the last few games Barlow played a key role in defence and wasn't horrible... well not Mulligan horrible anyway. In Barlow's favour is that he can also fill-in in other roles when/ if required.

Not for me. It's easy to be seduced by Barlow's height, but he possess no physical presence at all. I was standing next to him in the huddle at a Williamstown final and felt that I could take him on physically. Mulligan is horrible, but I think he's the marginally less horrible of the two options. Barlow remaining on the rookie list still offers that injury cover anyway i suppose.

[ledge]

Barlow was a good get and their are worse on our list, he has done more in one season as a rookie than some who have been on our list longer, we know he can compete at AFL level so I would be keeping him on.

[LostDoggy]

We tried to negotiate for Caddy in the final hours however they would not let us.

If you look at how Melbourne snagged Clark despite his first preference being Freo players' minds are always there to be changed. The kid wanted to come home, Essendon wouldn't budge -- if we really wanted him we could have made it happen. If we were good enough.

Would probably have run out of time though.

[Mantis]

Not for me. It's easy to be seduced by Barlow's height, but he possess no physical presence at all. I was standing next to him in the huddle at a Williamstown final and felt that I could take him on physically. Mulligan is horrible, but I think he's the marginally less horrible of the two options. Barlow remaining on the rookie list still offers that injury cover anyway i suppose.

Good for you.

Barlow isn't a crash & bash type, but he competes when he has to and is a far more talented player than Mulligan who looks out of place at VFL level.

[always right]

Not for me. It's easy to be seduced by Barlow's height, but he possess no physical presence at all. I was standing next to him in the huddle at a Williamstown final and felt that I could take him on physically. Mulligan is horrible, but I think he's the marginally less horrible of the two options. Barlow remaining on the rookie list still offers that injury cover anyway i suppose.

What a bizarre statement.

I think neither Barlow or Mulligan have a future with us, although if you had to choose one then Barlow has shown marginally more ability. You're talking about a choice between two duds though.

[Greystache]

Good for you.

Barlow isn't a crash & bash type, but he competes when he has to and is a far more talented player than Mulligan who looks out of place at VFL level.

I'm not big enough to be an AFL kpf, so good luck to him.

Again, he has no physical presence at all. Talent aside (which he has a limited amount of) he'd get rag dolled.

[Greystache]

What a bizarre statement.

I think neither Barlow or Mulligan have a future with us, although if you had to choose one then Barlow has shown marginally more ability. You're talking about a choice between two duds though.

Great post as usual. :rolleyes:

[Mofra]

Would moving Barlow onto the main list instead of renewing Mulligan be an option?
I might be one of the few here that say yes.

Mulligan is behind Lake, Williams, Markovic & Morris as a tall backman, assumign Barlow plays elsewhere most of teh tiem and we don't draft someone or take a mature rookie that is ready to go.

Barlow pinch hits there, is the only bloke on our list with a bigger tank than Cross, played with a broken finger for most of the year and actually runs hard to get to contests - never mind the fact that he's much more versatile.

I don't even think a comparison between the two is fair - Barlow is so far ahead of Mulligan is pretty much every aspect of the game it isn't funny.

[BulldogBelle]

Its pretty doubtful that Mulligan will ever develop average foot skills, or show any attacking flair, his decision making is poor (even at VFL level), and makes some stupid defensive mistakes at times - and its pretty doubtful these traits will ever improve

He is only on the list for his physical size and probably good attitude- he has had 2 years already, and not shown anything when given the opportunities

He isnt going to make it

Lets find a decent key position player in the draft to replace him with

He is not an AFL footballer, just doesnt have the football smarts for it. Lets stop trying to develop athletes into footballers.

[1eyedog]

Great post as usual. :rolleyes:

Not an overly becoming reply from a mod, always right makes good points at times, regardless of how annoying his username is.
I get the meaning in your post, but Barlow is not a physical one on one player who thrives on contested situations. Just because he's tall doesn't mean he needs to be physical. He is hopeless in the air for his height and really is probably 3-4 inches too tall for the way he plays, the best we can hope for him in the air is to be an effective defensive third man up.

He's a tall Sam Power:eek: who also needs to work on his fitness.

He is versatile enough to fill a gap where required but he is not a long-term viable option IMHO.

He has more tricks in his bag than Mulligan though that's for sure.

[Greystache]

Not an overly becoming reply from a mod, always right makes good points at times, regardless of how annoying his username is.

Without wanting to derail the thread. Always right is WOOF's equivalent of a social commentator, his posts are almost exclusively comments on other posters comments, rather than adding to the topic of the thread. A post in relation to a football related discussion would be a welcome change.

[Prince Imperial]

I might be one of the few here that say yes.

Mulligan is behind Lake, Williams, Markovic & Morris as a tall backman, assumign Barlow plays elsewhere most of teh tiem and we don't draft someone or take a mature rookie that is ready to go.

Barlow pinch hits there, is the only bloke on our list with a bigger tank than Cross, played with a broken finger for most of the year and actually runs hard to get to contests - never mind the fact that he's much more versatile.

I don't even think a comparison between the two is fair - Barlow is so far ahead of Mulligan is pretty much every aspect of the game it isn't funny.

I totally agree with this post.

[soupman]

So we have:

Option a) Keep Mulligan for another year as depth.

Option b) Delist Mulligan and promote Barlow as the defensive cover.

Could there be an option c though? Get rid of Mulligan, do what you like with Barlow and draft O'Hailpin? I know he has been spoken aboutin other threads, but surely he represents as good an option as either of the other two, and unlike Mulligan and barlow can offer more in other roles too (Barlow can play as a key forward or ruck, but is more of a flanker type than Setanta who could actually give us somebody more physical).

[always right]

Great post as usual. :rolleyes:

So now you're the arbiter of what constitutes a good post are you? I'm so impressed.

[Greystache]

So we have:

Option a) Keep Mulligan for another year as depth.

Option b) Delist Mulligan and promote Barlow as the defensive cover.

Could there be an option c though? Get rid of Mulligan, do what you like with Barlow and draft O'Hailpin? I know he has been spoken aboutin other threads, but surely he represents as good an option as either of the other two, and unlike Mulligan and barlow can offer more in other roles too (Barlow can play as a key forward or ruck, but is more of a flanker type than Setanta who could actually give us somebody more physical).

I agree with option C, if the club is happy to take on O'hAilpin then I'd happily delist Mulligan (I mentioned I'd only keep Mulligan if we didn't pick up a mature defender) I don't rate O'hAilpin as a defender but he is miles ahead of Mulligan or Barlow.

[Sockeye Salmon]

There is no possible justification for keeping Mulligan.

Barlow is poo, too.

[bornadog]

There is no possible justification for keeping Mulligan.

Barlow is poo, too.

Delist both then.

[Remi Moses]

Rather O'hailpan than Mulligan or Barlow.
He's probably that 2nd ruckman than backman though.

[mjp]

I cannot believe I just spent 15 minutes reading through a debate about Barlow and Mulligan and occasionally nodding my head in agreement...

When do the games start again? When we have reached this point we all need something more to talk about! Neither of these players are going to give us much assistance - though I accept both are tall and Barlow seems a likely candidate to make next years team - as a 1500m runner at the London Olympics.

[stefoid]

Rather O'hailpan than Mulligan or Barlow.
He's probably that 2nd ruckman than backman though.

While I agree with you, I dont know if reaplcing big spuds with a large tuber is the road to a premiership.

[azabob]

Not an overly becoming reply from a mod, always right makes good points at times, regardless of how annoying his username is.
I get the meaning in your post, but Barlow is not a physical one on one player who thrives on contested situations. Just because he's tall doesn't mean he needs to be physical. He is hopeless in the air for his height and really is probably 3-4 inches too tall for the way he plays, the best we can hope for him in the air is to be an effective defensive third man up.

He's a tall Sam Power:eek: who also needs to work on his fitness.

He is versatile enough to fill a gap where required but he is not a long-term viable option IMHO.

He has more tricks in his bag than Mulligan though that's for sure.

Isn't Barlow's greatest strength is his fitness and ability to run out games?

[LostDoggy]

While I agree with you, I dont know if reaplcing big spuds with a large tuber is the road to a premiership.

Leigh Brown retired this year with a premiership to his name. If the coaching staff think he can provide a contest at chf I think he us worth a shot if only to protect our younger forwards and provide some intimidation. I am a little concerned that teams may target our youth next year and the role of an enforcer can often be underrated.

[bornadog]

Leigh Brown retired this year with a premiership to his name. If the coaching staff think he can provide a contest at chf I think he us worth a shot if only to protect our younger forwards and provide some intimidation. I am a little concerned that teams may target our youth next year and the role of an enforcer can often be underrated.

Lee Brown is now an assistant coach at Melbourne I think.

[LostDoggy]

Few more delistings today with Adelaide and Melbourne..

Sorry if it had been asked but any idea when ours will be? likely in the next 2 days?

[azabob]

Few more delistings today with Adelaide and Melbourne..

Sorry if it had been asked but any idea when ours will be? likely in the next 2 days?

First list lodgement isn't due till October 31st.

[1eyedog]

Isn't Barlow's greatest strength is his fitness and ability to run out games?

He looked positively knackered at the end of some of the games he played last season, maybe it's because he works so hard, although I failed to see the fruit of those efforts.

[LostDoggy]

Lee Brown is now an assistant coach at Melbourne I think.

Sorry I wasn't very clear. I was Comparing O'hailpin to Brown. Both not overly talented but if competitive these types of players fill a role. Our forward line will probably be fairly green next year and an old pack splitter that can pinch in the ruck might be valuable

[Mofra]

He looked positively knackered at the end of some of the games he played last season, maybe it's because he works so hard, although I failed to see the fruit of those efforts.
Because he works hard- he does get to alot of contests.
He is the only player on our list that can beat Cross in the endurance timetrial - to suggest he needs work on his fitness is like saying Boyd needs to take football more seriously.

[The Underdog]

Does anyone doubt that with our history of rookie promotions over the last couple of years that Barlow will be promoted? I don't agree with it but I'll be astounded given we promoted Hooper and Mulligan on less.
I just hope it's not at the expense of Panos.

[bornadog]

Sorry I wasn't very clear. I was Comparing O'hailpin to Brown. Both not overly talented but if competitive these types of players fill a role. Our forward line will probably be fairly green next year and an old pack splitter that can pinch in the ruck might be valuable

Sorry, I misunderstood and understand your point. Can Minson play this role when he is resting. Minson should become our Leigh Brown.

[The Underdog]

Sorry, I misunderstood and understand your point. Can Minson play this role when he is resting. Minson should become our Leigh Brown.

Brown was more versatile than Minson though. I'm not sure Minson adds much value as a forward, and despite his size I don't think he particularly intimidates anyone. Minson playing forward screams out to be exploited by the opposition as far as I'm concerned.

[soupman]

Sorry, I misunderstood and understand your point. Can Minson play this role when he is resting. Minson should become our Leigh Brown.

I think we've tried that already though. We've seen that Minson struggles as a forward who spends brief periods in the ruck, which is the role Leigh Brown played. Next year is our chance to see if he can do it the other way around, playing as a ruck who ocassionally rests forward.

[bornadog]

I think we've tried that already though. We've seen that Minson struggles as a forward who spends brief periods in the ruck, which is the role Leigh Brown played. Next year is our chance to see if he can do it the other way around, playing as a ruck who ocassionally rests forward.

I think thats what I said, so we agree

[1eyedog]

Because he works hard- he does get to alot of contests.
He is the only player on our list that can beat Cross in the endurance timetrial - to suggest he needs work on his fitness is like saying Boyd needs to take football more seriously.

Fair enough.

[jeemak]

It's funny how a player's reputation can change depending on how their team has gone for the year, who they happen to be competing for spots with or playing alongside and how they might be used by the coaching staff.

Here's a link that might make you consider the value added by Leigh Brown in the forward/ruckman role versus Will Minson in the ruckman/forward role. I've chosen their best years in these respective positions, which for Brown was 2010 and for Minson was 2008:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=5&pid1=142&tid2=8&pid2=1421&type=T&fid1=P&fopt1=2010&fid2=P&fopt2=2008

Key points for mine are goals kicked (Brown 21, Minson 19), hitouts (Brown 93, Minson 313) and tackles (Brown 78, Minson 58). Mark stats (Brown 86, Minson 88) probably don't differentiate between those taken up the ground in the ruckby Minson, versus those setting up goals in the forward line by Brown.

I'd argue that Minson probably caught a few sides by surprise up forward in 2008, and they learned to counter his effectiveness over the following two or three years. With our game style moving to a less free flowing one in 2009 and beyond he was also facing one or two more defenders to deal with in 2009. Barry arriving in 2010 didn't help his cause as a target either.

What made Brown so effective last year was his defensive pressure, and due to his extra mobility compared to Minson he was extremely valuable to the Pies when they perfected their forward defensive strategy and learned to attack through it. This is an area where he was far superior to Minson.

Minson isn't a slouch up forward, he just relies on quick ball movement and plenty of forward entries. He's not going to get that in 2012, so can't be relied upon to kick goals for us, beyond what a standard ruckman might be able to.

He might contribute one goal a game if lucky, but that doesn't mean he won't still make a quality ruckman over the coming years.

Get the ball movement right, and the frequency of forward entry right then just about any tall lugg with half an ounce of ability can be effective.

[Mantis]

Herald Sun reporting that Stack will probably get delisted, but Addison will stay on... I would be swapping these 2.

No word on Mulligan.

[Mofra]

If we are talking about our equivalent to Leigh Brown, I would have though Roughead is a better candidate than Minson.
Roughy is a better mark and looks more dangerous forward, and a Minson/Roughy Combo I'd have Minson doing the bulk of the ruckwork (70% +) and have Roughy play as a tall forward offering ruck relief.

[Desipura]

Herald Sun reporting that Stack will probably get delisted, but Addison will stay on... I would be swapping these 2.

No word on Mulligan.
Agree especially now that McCartney is with us. He likes players with a harder edge.

[The Underdog]

Agree especially now that McCartney is with us. He likes players with a harder edge.

You'd be keeping Stack for his harder edge?
Edit - Sorry thought you were agreeing with Mantis, but guess you're agreeing with the keeping of DFA and the purge of Stack

[Bulldog Revolution]

Herald Sun reporting that Stack will probably get delisted, but Addison will stay on... I would be swapping these 2.

No word on Mulligan.

Perhaps done more on attitude and application

I am wondering if McCartney can do for Addison what the Bombers did for Sam Lonergan this year - thoughts?

I'd always thought Lonergan was a good ordinary footballer but they got some real impact out of him this year until injured

To be fair to Addison after making significant strides in 2010 did not get many opportunities this year. He played 4 games and never two in a row.

[stefoid]

Leigh Brown retired this year with a premiership to his name. If the coaching staff think he can provide a contest at chf I think he us worth a shot if only to protect our younger forwards and provide some intimidation. I am a little concerned that teams may target our youth next year and the role of an enforcer can often be underrated.

We arent pushing for a GF in the next couple of years though.

I dont think its the right time to fill our holes with stop-gap players. Id rather play the good young players we have in those holes and take the short term pain, for longer term gain = more experience for the young players and better draft picks next year.

Bring Setanta into the side means pushing one young potential forward back to the Willi seniors (Panos, Cordy, Vezpremi) which pushes another younger player back to the Willi reserves (Hill, Skinner)

[GVGjr]

We arent pushing for a GF in the next couple of years though.

I dont think its the right time to fill our holes with stop-gap players. Id rather play the good young players we have in those holes and take the short term pain, for longer term gain = more experience for the young players and better draft picks next year.

Bring Setanta into the side means pushing one young potential forward back to the Willi seniors (Panos, Cordy, Vezpremi) which pushes another younger player back to the Willi reserves (Hill, Skinner)

I also don't think we are at the stage where throwing young players into the deep end is the right way to go for us. The "Play the kids" approach is an easy out and one that most supporters will accept if you aren't going to contend but if you can add an experienced guy to the mix that assists guys like Jones and Grant then it can also be a positive. I don't think we will land Setanta but give he is a physical presence and capable of playing a few positions including a good spell in the ruck when we decided to go into games with just one then I see the appeal if he can be added cheaply.

[Mantis]

Perhaps done more on attitude and application

I am wondering if McCartney can do for Addison what the Bombers did for Sam Lonergan this year - thoughts?

I'd always thought Lonergan was a good ordinary footballer but they got some real impact out of him this year until injured

To be fair to Addison after making significant strides in 2010 did not get many opportunities this year. He played 4 games and never two in a row.

My main concern with Dylan is his lack of pace, agility and awareness which are all traits which are holding him back in terms of being a regular senior player and a good contributor at that.

Lonergan has a bit of toe and has some agility which make him useful around the ball and I don't think this comparison is fair.

I guess we know what we will get from Addison (hardness, competitive) which makes him useful as player number 30 on the list, but I don't think that's enough to keep him on-board.

[stefoid]

I also don't think we are at the stage where throwing young players into the deep end is the right way to go for us. The "Play the kids" approach is an easy out and one that most supporters will accept if you aren't going to contend but if you can add an experienced guy to the mix that assists guys like Jones and Grant then it can also be a positive. I don't think we will land Setanta but give he is a physical presence and capable of playing a few positions including a good spell in the ruck when we decided to go into games with just one then I see the appeal if he can be added cheaply.

We threw Jones into the deep end last year. This year is for him to build on that.

Which other forward/ruck players are going to struggle playing seniors without Setanta around? Roughead? Panos?

[The Doctor]

We threw Jones into the deep end last year. This year is for him to build on that.

Which other forward/ruck players are going to struggle playing seniors without Setanta around? Roughead? Panos?

Setanta would provide cover in several positions and add a lot of grunt. Let the younger guys worry about getting a kick and let the irishman do the physical stuff.

Additionally, it doesn't hurt for Jones, Roughead, Grant, Panos have some experienced competition for a spot in the side.

[GVGjr]

Setanta would provide cover in several positions and add a lot of grunt. Let the younger guys worry about getting a kick and let the irishman do the physical stuff.

Additionally, it doesn't hurt for Jones, Roughead, Grant, Panos have some experienced competition for a spot in the side.

Agreed, they benefited by having Hall in the forward line and while Setanta is no Hall replacement at the very least it means not having to throw Jones into the ruck. Adding someone like Setanta also means that Jones and Grant can still develop as key forwards because he won't command the ball like Hall did.

[stefoid]

Agreed, they benefited by having Hall in the forward line and while Setanta is no Hall replacement at the very least it means not having to throw Jones into the ruck. Adding someone like Setanta also means that Jones and Grant can still develop as key forwards because he won't command the ball like Hall did.

The team benefitted, but how did Jones and Grant benefit? 70% of our forward entries were directed to Hall, and Hall prevented Grant from playing FF which I believe his his natural position.

I dont think we will see Jones at FF or in the ruck next year, regardless - CHF up the ground is his best position.

[BulldogBelle]

The team benefitted, but how did Jones and Grant benefit? 70% of our forward entries were directed to Hall, and Hall prevented Grant from playing FF which I believe his his natural position.

I dont think we will see Jones at FF or in the ruck next year, regardless - CHF up the ground is his best position.



Setanta o'hailpin isnt a focal point like Hall was - we are comparing a 700+ career goal kicker with a fella who has kicked less than 70 goals

Agree that Jones' best football will be played up the ground, chasing pack marks and leading in the centre of the ground

In the forward 50 our key posiiton prospects are Grant, Panos and Roughead/Minson (resting ruckman)

Grant isnt a pack marker and with his speed is better suited to playing up the ground (provided he can develop a tank over the summer), and Panos is a 19/20 years old (?) and probably only 192cms or so - so he will get the oppositions #1 stay at home defender - not a great way to develop a young forward from a confidence perspective

I think GWS will jump at setanta - so I think this conversation is slightly redundant

[Cyberdoggie]

Agreed, they benefited by having Hall in the forward line and while Setanta is no Hall replacement at the very least it means not having to throw Jones into the ruck. Adding someone like Setanta also means that Jones and Grant can still develop as key forwards because he won't command the ball like Hall did.


I think Setanta would offer 2 very big positives.

* Marking power: I'm not saying he's Wayne Carey, just saying he's tall and he's a strong contested mark, we have very little in this area.

* Backup ruck option: With Hudson gone, our options are Minson and/or Roughead. If Roughie can't command a dual role as forward/ruck then we may not be able to have both in the side. Setanta could enable having just the 1 of them and not being too tall/slow.

Negatives:
* can't kick: Jones already struggles to kick the ball, add Setanta, and an inconsistent and bizarre looking Grant, not much confidence in those 3 to kick clutch goals.


Worth a look though, guess it depends on what the new coach's plans are.

[GVGjr]

The team benefitted, but how did Jones and Grant benefit? 70% of our forward entries were directed to Hall, and Hall prevented Grant from playing FF which I believe his his natural position.

I dont think we will see Jones at FF or in the ruck next year, regardless - CHF up the ground is his best position.

They benefited by not having to be the key target and playing a lot of games alongside of a good one. Next year they will still need some support.

[BulldogBelle]

They benefited by not having to be the key target and playing a lot of games alongside of a good one. Next year they will still need some support.



Agree

I think some supporters are expecting Panos to have a breakout rookie season like Chris Grant did in 1990 - he is 20 years old and has never played an AFL game - and will need support

[stefoid]

Lets not pretend Setanta is some great player just because we havent seen his deficiencies up close like we have with Minson. Minson/Roughhead combo will do just as well close to goal as him.

[The Doctor]

Lets not pretend Setanta is some great player just because we havent seen his deficiencies up close like we have with Minson. Minson/Roughhead combo will do just as well close to goal as him.

And if one of Minson/Roughead breaks down then what?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Our compensation picks improve in value

[Topdog]

The team benefitted, but how did Jones and Grant benefit? 70% of our forward entries were directed to Hall, and Hall prevented Grant from playing FF which I believe his his natural position.

I dont think we will see Jones at FF or in the ruck next year, regardless - CHF up the ground is his best position.

What was Grant doing when Hall missed 7 games?

[Bulldog Revolution]

My main concern with Dylan is his lack of pace, agility and awareness which are all traits which are holding him back in terms of being a regular senior player and a good contributor at that.

Lonergan has a bit of toe and has some agility which make him useful around the ball and I don't think this comparison is fair.

I guess we know what we will get from Addison (hardness, competitive) which makes him useful as player number 30 on the list, but I don't think that's enough to keep him on-board.

I accept your views on Dylands pace and agility, and I've listened when you've said it previously, but I cant say its really something that stands out on the ground to me. He never looks blistering but he's always looked quick enough to play.

I didn't think the athletic comparison with Lonergan was that far off the mark - I don't think either are lightning quick, nor slow.

I think Dylans issues are making a position or role within the team his, and confidence. That said I'm not entirely sure what is a great role for him.

I dont think that he is a confident enough ball user to play as a small defender. Does he win enough of it to be a midfielder? Is the defensive small forward his best hope?

I like him in terms of effort but I'm unsure what the future holds and was merely wondering what McCartney's plan might have a plan to remake him.

[GVGjr]

Lets not pretend Setanta is some great player just because we havent seen his deficiencies up close like we have with Minson. Minson/Roughhead combo will do just as well close to goal as him.

I'm not sure why you're reading significantly more into what people are saying about him but along the way, most are acknowledging his deficiencies. I've not reading anything that resembles anyone is saying he's great.
He meets a few of our needs for the next 2 years ie taking a spell in the ruck and providing a physical presence up forward.

[Greystache]

I accept your views on Dylands pace and agility, and I've listened when you've said it previously, but I cant say its really something that stands out on the ground to me. He never looks blistering but he's always looked quick enough to play.

I didn't think the athletic comparison with Lonergan was that far off the mark - I don't think either are lightning quick, nor slow.

I think Dylans issues are making a position or role within the team his, and confidence. That said I'm not entirely sure what is a great role for him.

I dont think that he is a confident enough ball user to play as a small defender. Does he win enough of it to be a midfielder? Is the defensive small forward his best hope?

I like him in terms of effort but I'm unsure what the future holds and was merely wondering what McCartney's plan might have a plan to remake him.

I think Addison's best position is as a forward. He's strong overhead, is a reliable set shot for goal, will scrap hard to keep the ball inside forward 50m, and will be accountable to his opponent on the rebound.

He may well not make it as an AFL player, but I'd like to see him given at least an extended run. Our previous coach wasn't big on finding roles for players who didn't fit neatly in a box, hopefully McCartney can get more out of Dylan.

[1eyedog]

My main concern with Dylan is his lack of pace, agility and awareness which are all traits which are holding him back in terms of being a regular senior player and a good contributor at that.

Lonergan has a bit of toe and has some agility which make him useful around the ball and I don't think this comparison is fair.

I guess we know what we will get from Addison (hardness, competitive) which makes him useful as player number 30 on the list, but I don't think that's enough to keep him on-board.

I agree, I would rather we draft Urquart and have a crack at him than persist with a player who, as you say, lacks pace, agility and awareness.


The team benefitted, but how did Jones and Grant benefit? 70% of our forward entries were directed to Hall, and Hall prevented Grant from playing FF which I believe his his natural position.

I dont think we will see Jones at FF or in the ruck next year, regardless - CHF up the ground is his best position.

I disagree. I think we will see Jones play deep forward. I think BMac will recognise Jones' ability to take strong contested marks and play forward. CHF are more suited to lead up types (except perhaps J. Brown) and I would rather see Grant use his speed across half forward along with smaller forwards than see Jones continually get get pushed under high balls 50-70 metres out from goal. Jones does not have a tank for the modwern CHF position. Let's not feed Jones to the Wolves outside 50 just yet. I think his best football is inside 50 where he can use his contested marking ability to advantage (too bad the lad can't kick).


I think Setanta would offer 2 very big positives.

* Marking power: I'm not saying he's Wayne Carey, just saying he's tall and he's a strong contested mark, we have very little in this area.

* Backup ruck option: With Hudson gone, our options are Minson and/or Roughead. If Roughie can't command a dual role as forward/ruck then we may not be able to have both in the side. Setanta could enable having just the 1 of them and not being too tall/slow.

Negatives:
* can't kick: Jones already struggles to kick the ball, add Setanta, and an inconsistent and bizarre looking Grant, not much confidence in those 3 to kick clutch goals.


Worth a look though, guess it depends on what the new coach's plans are.

Setanta couldn't catch a cold, the ball alaways seems to fall into his hands, still, he will be a useful decoy for our developing forwards. He will get smashed in the ruck but behind Minson I agree that we have nothing but a 6'8 feather in Roughead.

[stefoid]

And if one of Minson/Roughead breaks down then what?

If we need a depth player, then do a 'marcovic' and pick a younger mature rookie that could possibly have a future. There must be a 22/23 yo 2nd tier player out there that would do at least as good a job as Setanta but have possible improvement in them.

Cox entered the system for similar reasons in a a similar way.

We arent going for a premiership so if someone breaks down, we make do - play Prato if he is still around, or whoever we replace him on the rookie list with.

Its just not the right time to be adding 28yo hacks to the list.

[immortalmike]

I think Addison's best position is as a forward. He's strong overhead, is a reliable set shot for goal, will scrap hard to keep the ball inside forward 50m, and will be accountable to his opponent on the rebound.

He may well not make it as an AFL player, but I'd like to see him given at least an extended run. Our previous coach wasn't big on finding roles for players who didn't fit neatly in a box, hopefully McCartney can get more out of Dylan.

So, Harbrow, Higgins, Stack and Hill off half back, Murphy at CHF, Gilbee at HFF, Ward as a high HF, Cross as a tagger, and Everitt everywhere on the damn park weren't enough for you? I think you're selling Eade very short with that description. The funny thing is I seem to remember Dylan being trialled as a forward last year with uninspiring results.

[Greystache]

So, Harbrow, Higgins, Stack and Hill off half back, Murphy at CHF, Gilbee at HFF, Ward as a high HF, Cross as a tagger, and Everitt everywhere on the damn park weren't enough for you? I think you're selling Eade very short with that description. The funny thing is I seem to remember Dylan being trialled as a forward last year with uninspiring results.

Harbrow- gone
Higgins- a couple of games in defence before going back to his unaccountable forward role
Stack- going
Hill- gone
Murphy- playing back in defence
Gilbee- 2 games forward, one successful then straight back to defence. Should be gone
Ward- High half forward is just another midfielder
Cross- has tagged on and off his whole career
Everitt- gone

Hardly a compelling list.

Not sure where you were during the 2010 preliminary final, Dylan was very good, it's also the last time he played forward.

[immortalmike]

Harbrow- gone. Not Eade's fault.
Higgins- a couple of games in defence before going back to his unaccountable forward role He played there until he was towelled up by Bird
Stack- going The fact remains a new role was found.
Hill- gone same as Stack
Murphy- playing back in defenceInjuries
Gilbee- 2 games forward, one successful then straight back to defence. Should be gone Had one of the worst games in history against West Coast
Ward- High half forward is just another midfielder fair enough
Cross- has tagged on and off his whole career not as much as this year
Everitt- goneNot Eade's fault

Hardly a compelling list.

Not sure where you were during the 2010 preliminary final, Dylan was very good, it's also the last time he played forward.

Answers in bold
Overall your charge that Eade didn't try to find a role for players in the team is blatantly wrong. What you would have been right about was that Rodney did not keep players in those roles long enough. But then again his persistence with Stack, Hill, Everitt and Harbrow can't be completely ignored. It wasn't Rocket's fault that Harbrow left and the other three were just not up to it.
And, really 10 disposals a goal and one tackle is a good game? I was there and I remember thinking he wasn't our worst but certainly wasn't good. Mitch Hahn had a better game and we delisted him. Maybe Dylan should be trialled forward (again) but I'd hardly be using that game as a reason.

[bornadog]

Answers in bold
Overall your charge that Eade didn't try to find a role for players in the team is blatantly wrong. What you would have been right about was that Rodney did not keep players in those roles long enough. But then again his persistence with Stack, Hill, Everitt and Harbrow can't be completely ignored. It wasn't Rocket's fault that Harbrow left and the other three were just not up to it.
And, really 10 disposals a goal and one tackle is a good game? I was there and I remember thinking he wasn't our worst but certainly wasn't good. Mitch Hahn had a better game and we delisted him. Maybe Dylan should be trialled forward (again) but I'd hardly be using that game as a reason.

Lets face it, you can try Addison in any role you want but he is just not up to AFL standard.

[immortalmike]

Lets face it, you can try Addison in any role you want but he is just not up to AFL standard.

Yeah but I can see what Greystache is trying to say in that Dylan has some AFL qualities, i.e., he has very good hands overhead, can kick a goal and is tough and hard in the contest. The problem is that when he gets to AFL level he is way too inconsistent and probably didn't get enough continuity of game time under Eade.

[soupman]

Yeah but I can see what Greystache is trying to say in that Dylan has some AFL qualities, i.e., he has very good hands overhead, can kick a goal and is tough and hard in the contest. The problem is that when he gets to AFL level he is way too inconsistent and probably didn't get enough continuity of game time under Eade.

But his weaknesses are becoming more apparent as the game evolves. ATM his decision making is too slow and poor, and he struggles to impact the game enough in any roles given thus far. He's probably too slow to play the defensive forward type, too badly skilled to be a danger coming out of defence, and unable to get enough of it to have an impact in the middle. If we keep him it'll be interesting to see if he can overcome these deficiencies to be a servicable player for us.

[Mofra]

Yeah but I can see what Greystache is trying to say in that Dylan has some AFL qualities, i.e., he has very good hands overhead, can kick a goal and is tough and hard in the contest. The problem is that when he gets to AFL level he is way too inconsistent and probably didn't get enough continuity of game time under Eade.
I think the main problem is that he is being tried in every position except the one thing he can do at AFL level - play as an inside midfielder.
We have too many inside mids in front of him.
I don't think he's not up to the task; I think he is, sadly, surplus to our needs as others are in front of him.

[Ghost Dog]

I think the main problem is that he is being tried in every position except the one thing he can do at AFL level - play as an inside midfielder.
We have too many inside mids in front of him.
I don't think he's not up to the task; I think he is, sadly, surplus to our needs as others are in front of him.

New coach, might just find his fortunes change. Who knows.

[Remi Moses]

Goes to ground to often for mine. He has a crack, but his skill level is not AFL Standard.

[jazzadogs]

Don't our delistings need to be announced by today. Despite our hypothesising, there hasn't been anything official from the club yet?

[G-Mo77]

Nope nothing yet.

Stack looks to be the only one.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

After today, when is the NEXT date for delistings??

[The Coon Dog]

After today, when is the NEXT date for delistings??

Found this on the AFL website:

Key 2011 Draft Dates (http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=121152)

[Cyberdoggie]

Found this on the AFL website:

Key 2011 Draft Dates (http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=121152)

Thanks Coon Dog,

Doesn't really clear it up unfortunately, not sure what list lodgement 1 and 2 are but i'm assuming something has to be lodged today.

[GVGjr]

Thanks Coon Dog,

Doesn't really clear it up unfortunately, not sure what list lodgement 1 and 2 are but i'm assuming something has to be lodged today.


My understanding is the first list lodgement is about confirming the rookie promotions so you need to have made some spots available. You also have to confirm if you are retaining any rookies for 2nd or 3rd years. If you have any International players then these need to be confirmed as well.

Other than that, you don't have to do too much but most clubs get their lists ready early.

[divvydan]

From AFL tweet

Bulldogs. Ins - L Dahlhaus, M Panos. Outs - B Hall, J Hill, B Hudson, S Reid, B Stack, C Ward.

So Panos officially elevated and Stack officially delisted.

[Desipura]

From AFL tweet

Bulldogs. Ins - L Dahlhaus, M Panos. Outs - B Hall, J Hill, B Hudson, S Reid, B Stack, C Ward.

So Panos officially elevated and Stack officially delisted.
Stack a go go.

[Mofra]

From AFL tweet

Bulldogs. Ins - L Dahlhaus, M Panos. Outs - B Hall, J Hill, B Hudson, S Reid, B Stack, C Ward.

So Panos officially elevated and Stack officially delisted.
Giving us 4 picks so far in the draft proper - I'm guessing Ed Barlow gets re-rookied instead of promoted, and Shaggy & Gilbee haven't pulled the pin (yet)

[chef]

From AFL tweet

Bulldogs. Ins - L Dahlhaus, M Panos. Outs - B Hall, J Hill, B Hudson, S Reid, B Stack, C Ward.

So Panos officially elevated and Stack officially delisted.

And Mulligan stays on our list:confused:

[The Doctor]

And Mulligan stays on our list:confused:

Must be contracted???

[GVGjr]

And Mulligan stays on our list:confused:

More to come later perhaps. Is he still under contract? I'm guessing he isn't but I'm not sure.

My understanding is that the first list lodgement is more around confirming your rookie list promotions so there might be some more changes.

[chef]

Must be contracted???

I don't think he is as he received a 2 year contract at the end of 2009.

[chef]

More to come later perhaps. Is he still under contract? I'm guessing he isn't but I'm not sure.

My understanding is that the first list lodgement is more around confirming your rookie list promotions so there might be some more changes.

Fair enough, I would rather keep drafting the kids than hanging on to players who aren't going to make it.

[GVGjr]

Fair enough, I would rather keep drafting the kids than hanging on to players who aren't going to make it.

Our record of clearing out players in favor of youngsters even before the compromised drafts wasn't flash but at least this year they now have a reasonable excuse.
I think they need to cut a little deeper than what they have so far.

[chef]

Our record of clearing out players in favor of youngsters even before the compromised drafts wasn't flash but at least this year they now have a reasonable excuse.
I think they need to cut a little deeper than what they have so far.

Agree, Addison and a couple others should be feeling very lucky.

[anfo27]

Just glad to see the back of Stack.

[bornadog]

Final List

ADDITIONS
Luke Dahlhaus - Elevated Rookie
Matthew Panos - Elevated Rookie

DELETIONS
Barry Hall - Retired
Josh Hill - Traded to West Coast
Ben Hudson - Traded to the Brisbane Lions
Sam Reid - GWS Uncontracted Player
Brennan Stack - Delisted
Callan Ward - GWS Uncontracted Player
__________________

[Ghost Dog]

Just glad to see the back of Stack.

Fair enough. Won't be surprised if he's given another chance elsewhere though.
If I had to choose him over Addison, might cause some prolonged deliberation.

[LostDoggy]

Just glad to see the back of Stack.

So, who is going to be everyones favourite target next season?

[G-Mo77]

So, who is going to be everyones favourite target next season?

Djerrkura....

Nathan Djerrkura.

[LostDoggy]

Would rather have kept Stack than Mulligan or Addison, but i guess at 26 he might not have much improvement left in him

[Happy Days]

So, who is going to be everyones favourite target next season?

Now that he's officially been cut from the AFL, can we move on from Stack being "unfairly dealt with" and just come to the conclusion that he isn't very good, like the club did?

[anfo27]

Would rather have kept Stack than Mulligan or Addison, but i guess at 26 he might not have much improvement left in him

At least Addison will put his body on the line for his team mates something Stack refused to do. I'd rather a witches hat than Mulligan.

[Remi Moses]

Now that he's officially been cut from the AFL, can we move on from Stack being "unfairly dealt with" and just come to the conclusion that he isn't very good, like the club did?

Exactly right for some bizarre reason the Club sees the same player the members do!
One not up to it as an AFL player. Personally hope every one of our listed players is good enough, but some aren't!

[Remi Moses]

Djerrkura....

Nathan Djerrkura.

If he doesn't perform he'll get critiqued like every listed player does!

[1eyedog]

But his weaknesses are becoming more apparent as the game evolves. ATM his decision making is too slow and poor, and he struggles to impact the game enough in any roles given thus far. He's probably too slow to play the defensive forward type, too badly skilled to be a danger coming out of defence, and unable to get enough of it to have an impact in the middle. If we keep him it'll be interesting to see if he can overcome these deficiencies to be a servicable player for us.

This. He had a role two or three years ago but the game moves so fast now and demands so much that I fear it has gone past him. If Cross does not redefine his role and get forward more to use his ability overhead he will be in strife too.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Would rather have kept Stack than Mulligan or Addison, but i guess at 26 he might not have much improvement left in him

Is Stack 26?

Wow. Thought he was about 23.

[LostDoggy]

Marty Pask tweeted about a week ago that he was on his way to Whitten oval to sign up Addison for a further year.

So i gather he will be given one more year

[KT31]

Marty Pask tweeted about a week ago that he was on his way to Whitten oval to sign up Addison for a further year.

So i gather he will be given one more year

Don't see the reasoning behind this, a years development could be put into a kid instead of delaying his delistment.

[Cyberdoggie]

Is Stack 26?

Wow. Thought he was about 23.

Shows you how long he has been there and not really achieved much.

His time was up, good luck to him in the future though.

[azabob]

Is Stack 26?

Wow. Thought he was about 23.


Shows you how long he has been there and not really achieved much.

His time was up, good luck to him in the future though.

Stack is only 23, 24 next year. Born 1988.

[GVGjr]

Shows you how long he has been there and not really achieved much.

His time was up, good luck to him in the future though.

Stack is just 23. I think the reference to 26 was about Will Minson's age

[Maddog37]

Dont you have to give two years to new signings? Maybe that is part of why we have kept some guys for one more year rather than delist, draft and not have enough spots next year for picks.

[Greystache]

Is Stack 26?

Wow. Thought he was about 23.

He is 23, born May 1988.

[The Doctor]

I really think we have delisted one short. I'd like to see either a 5th pick in the ND or a pick kept for the PSD.

Next year we could see a huge overhaul of the list with the following players (at this stage) under the pump for next year;

* Hooper, Skinner, Mulligan, Moles, Addison, Gilbee, Hargrave

7 in total and possibly several more could join them. That would be too many for one draft.

Even if all our players are now contracted I still think we could let one drop off the main list and we could rookie them with our last pick in that draft. I doubt anyone would draft Hooper or mulligan for instance so what have we to lose?

[KT31]

]I really think we have delisted one short[/B]. I'd like to see either a 5th pick in the ND or a pick kept for the PSD.

Next year we could see a huge overhaul of the list with the following players (at this stage) under the pump for next year;

* Hooper, Skinner, Mulligan, Moles, Addison, Gilbee, Hargrave

7 in total and possibly several more could join them. That would be too many for one draft.

Even if all our players are now contracted I still think we could let one drop off the main list and we could rookie them with our last pick in that draft. I doubt anyone would draft Hooper or mulligan for instance so what have we to lose?

I think we are still a couple short.
Mulligan should have been a certainty to go and DFA should consider himself very lucky.

[GVGjr]

I really think we have delisted one short. I'd like to see either a 5th pick in the ND or a pick kept for the PSD.

Next year we could see a huge overhaul of the list with the following players (at this stage) under the pump for next year;

* Hooper, Skinner, Mulligan, Moles, Addison, Gilbee, Hargrave

7 in total and possibly several more could join them. That would be too many for one draft.

Even if all our players are now contracted I still think we could let one drop off the main list and we could rookie them with our last pick in that draft. I doubt anyone would draft Hooper or mulligan for instance so what have we to lose?

Good call all round Doc. I guess the compromised draft is a consideration for us retaining players this year plus having a couple of additional selections next year as well but I'd be more than happy to go a little harder at it again this year. There still might be another delisiting or retirement but it's probably unlikely.

[Mantis]

Dont you have to give two years to new signings? Maybe that is part of why we have kept some guys for one more year rather than delist, draft and not have enough spots next year for picks.

Thorne was only given 1 year so I don't think that rule applies.

[Maddog37]

Is there an age clause with the rule Mantis? I am sure I read about minimum two years somewhere.......

[stefoid]

I really think we have delisted one short. I'd like to see either a 5th pick in the ND or a pick kept for the PSD.

Next year we could see a huge overhaul of the list with the following players (at this stage) under the pump for next year;

* Hooper, Skinner, Mulligan, Moles, Addison, Gilbee, Hargrave

7 in total and possibly several more could join them. That would be too many for one draft.


Why too much? 5 picks goes to round 5 this year.

7 picks would go out to round 5 next year because we have two 1st rounders and 2 3rd rounders. And its a deeper draft.

[LostDoggy]

Is there an age clause with the rule Mantis? I am sure I read about minimum two years somewhere.......

Depends how old they are

If they are under 21 ( i think that is the age) then they get 2 years mature aged players can be given a 1 year contract.

Thorne was 23 i think

[Happy Days]

Is there an age clause with the rule Mantis? I am sure I read about minimum two years somewhere.......

Getting drafted in the ND guarantees you a 2-year contract, but not neccesarily 2 years on the list (i.e: Tom Lee at Adelaide); it's the club's prerogative on whether or not to keep players on for the full two years or pay out their contract if they feel they totally aren't up to it.

[azabob]

Depends how old they are

If they are under 21 ( i think that is the age) then they get 2 years mature aged players can be given a 1 year contract.

Thorne was 23 i think


Getting drafted in the ND guarantees you a 2-year contract, but not neccesarily 2 years on the list (i.e: Tom Lee at Adelaide); it's the club's prerogative on whether or not to keep players on for the full two years or pay out their contract if they feel they totally aren't up to it.

I understand the rule as WOW has said it above. It is age dependent or if you have nominated for the draft previously.

[Bulldog Revolution]

... and DFA should consider himself very lucky.

Lots of people are saying this and its not that I disagree with you KT but geez the guy had a tough run last year. Played 4 games and never two in a row - clearly out of favour.

I have some hopes that Dylan can be re-invented by a new coach.

I dont blame Eade but a new coach may have a different vision of what he can contribute.

[GVGjr]

Lots of people are saying this and its not that I disagree with you KT but geez the guy had a tough run last year. Played 4 games and never two in a row - clearly out of favour.

I have some hopes that Dylan can be re-invented by a new coach.

I dont blame Eade but a new coach may have a different vision of what he can contribute.

What position do you think he could fill?
I agree it wasn't an Eade problem and a new coach might have different idea's but I struggle to find a position or than just a depth player for him.

[The Doctor]

It would not surprise me if the new coach tries Addison in that Enright style of half back.

Addison is similar in size and grunt, perhaps not as skilled. Never know what a new lease of life will give someone.

[Maddog37]

It would not surprise me if the new coach tries Addison in that Enright style of half back.

Addison is similar in size and grunt, perhaps not as skilled. Never know what a new lease of life will give someone.

That is like comparing Mr Ed to Phar Lap.

[The Doctor]

That is like comparing Mr Ed to Phar Lap.

I wasn't making a direct comparison. it was the positional style.

[The Doctor]

Why too much? 5 picks goes to round 5 this year.

7 picks would go out to round 5 next year because we have two 1st rounders and 2 3rd rounders. And its a deeper draft.

I don't think putting all our eggs in one basket is the way to go. As I stated there is a chance that more than 7 could go next year.

Further I could guarantee you we could find a better player than mulligan in the 5th round of any draft, or the 7th round or 100th.

[Bulldog Revolution]

What position do you think he could fill?
I agree it wasn't an Eade problem and a new coach might have different idea's but I struggle to find a position or than just a depth player for him.

I've thought about that a bit and its not easy because he hasn't made any position his own yet clearly

He spent most of the year in the VFL as a small defender, but Im not convinced thats his spot. I think really he is an inside midfielder who we've been searching for another spot for because we have lots of them who we rate higher.

That said I think he probably has to set himself to take Callan Wards role midfield whilst also playing forward, which wont be easy with Libba and Wallis emerging, and hopefully Cooney coming back in, but I think its got to be Addisons plan.

I still believe that some of his issues are confidence related, and that the coaching staff need to find a way to get him playing with real belief. If you watch the final against Sydney in 2010 he actually kicks the ball beautifully, which is one of the most consistently leveled criticisms of him. When I watch him kick it just seems like a lack of confidence in where the ball should go, and that he needs to play more instinctively.

In another thread I'd wondered aloud whether he could have a Sam Lonergan like breakout year under a change of coach. Others felt that it wasn't a realistic comparison.

I dont know if its possible but the summer is the time for wondering isn't it?

Nobody would have suggested Markovic would have finished top 10 in our B&F last summer, and so whilst its easy to write guys off I'm hoping Addison can surprise us all. At least we know with Dylan it wont be through lack of effort.

[Ghost Dog]

I've thought about that a bit and its not easy because he hasn't made any position his own yet clearly

He spent most of the year in the VFL as a small defender, but Im not convinced thats his spot. I think really he is an inside midfielder who we've been searching for another spot for because we have lots of them who we rate higher.

That said I think he probably has to set himself to take Callan Wards role midfield whilst also playing forward, which wont be easy with Libba and Wallis emerging, and hopefully Cooney coming back in, but I think its got to be Addisons plan.

I still believe that some of his issues are confidence related, and that the coaching staff need to find a way to get him playing with real belief. If you watch the final against Sydney in 2010 he actually kicks the ball beautifully, which is one of the most consistently leveled criticisms of him. When I watch him kick it just seems like a lack of confidence in where the ball should go, and that he needs to play more instinctively.

In another thread I'd wondered aloud whether he could have a Sam Lonergan like breakout year under a change of coach. Others felt that it wasn't a realistic comparison.

I dont know if its possible but the summer is the time for wondering isn't it?

Nobody would have suggested Markovic would have finished top 10 in our B&F last summer, and so whilst its easy to write guys off I'm hoping Addison can surprise us all. At least we know with Dylan it wont be through lack of effort.

Good point.
Let's face it. In 2011, we could have swapped Dylan for Higgins, Grant, stack or plenty of others and had a similar or better result.

[BulldogBelle]

I don't think putting all our eggs in one basket is the way to go. As I stated there is a chance that more than 7 could go next year.

Further I could guarantee you we could find a better player than mulligan in the 5th round of any draft, or the 7th round or 100th.

So if Minson + Roughead go down with injuries, and Cordy isnt deemed to be ready, could we be keeping Mulligan as a ruck backup? - given Prato may not be retained on the rookie list?

I have never seen him ruck, but being 199cms he would definately have the size to at least compete

I'd prefer to use Mulligan rather than but Jones or Williams as cannon fodder

Possibly he is being kept as a ruck backup, and not just a key defender backup...

[Sockeye Salmon]

[/B]

So if Minson + Roughead go down with injuries, and Cordy isnt deemed to be ready, could we be keeping Mulligan as a ruck backup? - given Prato may not be retained on the rookie list?

I have never seen him ruck, but being 199cms he would definately have the size to at least compete

I'd prefer to use Mulligan rather than but Jones or Williams as cannon fodder

Possibly he is being kept as a ruck backup, and not just a key defender backup...

If he's only there as a backup ruck we should delist him and draft Currie from the Swans. At least he's a real ruckman.

[Cyberdoggie]

I've thought about that a bit and its not easy because he hasn't made any position his own yet clearly

He spent most of the year in the VFL as a small defender, but Im not convinced thats his spot. I think really he is an inside midfielder who we've been searching for another spot for because we have lots of them who we rate higher.

That said I think he probably has to set himself to take Callan Wards role midfield whilst also playing forward, which wont be easy with Libba and Wallis emerging, and hopefully Cooney coming back in, but I think its got to be Addisons plan.

I still believe that some of his issues are confidence related, and that the coaching staff need to find a way to get him playing with real belief. If you watch the final against Sydney in 2010 he actually kicks the ball beautifully, which is one of the most consistently leveled criticisms of him. When I watch him kick it just seems like a lack of confidence in where the ball should go, and that he needs to play more instinctively.
.

Some good points here.

I think you are right that Addison's game has been affected by his confidence, however i think it's been more that his all round game hasn't shown a lot of improvement throughout his career, and some injuries and negative roles he has had to play have also had an affect on his strengths and weaknesses.

When we drafted him i thought his run and carry and general play was similar to perhaps Schofield's. Since then he has been molded into a defensive tagger or defender with little attacking flair. He was described as being pacey competitive onballer before being drafted.

Dylan is no longer this type of player. Watching him in the VFL GF is a good example, he plays behind the ball across defence and basically passes the ball sideways to someone else and then jogs forward into a position where he's not going to receive the ball back again. Rarely decides to take the game on and back himself, and that is quite likely confidence related but i think more so that he doesn't have the ability to do it.

[LostDoggy]

Some good points here.

I think you are right that Addison's game has been affected by his confidence, however i think it's been more that his all round game hasn't shown a lot of improvement throughout his career, and some injuries and negative roles he has had to play have also had an affect on his strengths and weaknesses.

When we drafted him i thought his run and carry and general play was similar to perhaps Schofield's. Since then he has been molded into a defensive tagger or defender with little attacking flair. He was described as being pacey competitive onballer before being drafted.

Dylan is no longer this type of player. Watching him in the VFL GF is a good example, he plays behind the ball across defence and basically passes the ball sideways to someone else and then jogs forward into a position where he's not going to receive the ball back again. Rarely decides to take the game on and back himself, and that is quite likely confidence related but i think more so that he doesn't have the ability to do it.

His biggest problem is he loses his feet. Once you go to ground you're gone. And I doubt whether that can be taught.

[bulldogsman]

[/B]

So if Minson + Roughead go down with injuries, and Cordy isnt deemed to be ready, could we be keeping Mulligan as a ruck backup? - given Prato may not be retained on the rookie list?

I have never seen him ruck, but being 199cms he would definately have the size to at least compete

I'd prefer to use Mulligan rather than but Jones or Williams as cannon fodder

Possibly he is being kept as a ruck backup, and not just a key defender backup...

If we're so concerned about back up, Setanta O'Hailpin is a much better option. He's better a forward, defender and ruckman IMO.

By the way, I remember someone saying Mulligan was struggling in the ruck. That was when he was playing for Willi 2nd's. By the sound of it, he's a much worser ruckman then defender. That's bad.

[Before I Die]

I haven't got it in front of me, but I am sure he was described as 'one of the big improvers this year" in the the final Bulldogs Magazine. If this is a genuine club view, then he was promoted to the senior list from a very, very low point. Looks like Lindsay Gaze (see GVRjr signature)and the Bulldogs coaching committee share a common view on the time given to big men before they are deemed not good enough.

Please don't shoot the messenger on this one.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I haven't got it in front of me, but I am sure he was described as 'one of the big improvers this year" in the the final Bulldogs Magazine. If this is a genuine club view, then he was promoted to the senior list from a very, very low point. Looks like Lindsay Gaze (see GVRjr signature)and the Bulldogs coaching committee share a common view on the time given to big men before they are deemed not good enough.

Please don't shoot the messenger on this one.

I read it too and nearly choked on air.

Mulligan would get hammered in local leagues, let alone VFL/AFL.

[Mantis]

I haven't got it in front of me, but I am sure he was described as 'one of the big improvers this year" in the the final Bulldogs Magazine. If this is a genuine club view, then he was promoted to the senior list from a very, very low point. Looks like Lindsay Gaze (see GVRjr signature)and the Bulldogs coaching committee share a common view on the time given to big men before they are deemed not good enough.

Please don't shoot the messenger on this one.

Does it say who was doing commenting for the write-ups?

[LongWait]

Is Mulligan the victim of a bit of group-think here? Obviuosly the club sees something in him that the WOOF members don't.

[Before I Die]

I am home now with the magazine on my lap. It is in an article headed "Development Squad" on page 23, written by Chris Maple (Development Manager). There is a paragraph on each of 20 players. Interesting to note that the paragraph on Brennan Stack starts off with; "2011 was a very good year for Brennan".

Apparently not quite good enough. :D Though I guess we don't know how much the desire to go home impacted on our decision to delist.

[Ghost Dog]

I am home now with the magazine on my lap. It is in an article headed "Development Squad" on page 23, written by Chris Maple (Development Manager). There is a paragraph on each of 20 players. Interesting to note that the paragraph on Brennan Stack starts off with; "2011 was a very good year for Brennan".

Apparently not quite good enough. :D Though I guess we don't know how much the desire to go home impacted on our decision to delist.

he wanted out, didn't someone mention? Was made an offer but walked. Correct?

[G-Mo77]

Is Mulligan the victim of a bit of group-think here? Obviuosly the club sees something in him that the WOOF members don't.

I don't think you'll find too many that will rave about him. I think he should have been delisted but he hasn't and that's the way it goes. I remember a similar theme directed at Markovic last year and he turned out alright in 2011. Mulligan may surprise us all.

[GVGjr]

Is Mulligan the victim of a bit of group-think here? Obviuosly the club sees something in him that the WOOF members don't.

Perhaps it's just the contract that has kept him on the list. He had two years as a rookie and and two on the senior list so far.
Have you seen enough in him to warrant a 5th season with us?

[LongWait]

Perhaps it's just the contract that has kept him on the list. He had two years as a rookie and and two on the senior list so far.
Have you seen enough in him to warrant a 5th season with us?

No I haven't seen enough of him playing to judge whether he deserves another contract. The critiques of Mulligan border on vitriolic at times though. I'm a bit surprised at the strength of feeling expressed by some.

[GVGjr]

No I haven't seen enough of him playing to judge whether he deserves another contract. The critiques of Mulligan border on vitriolic at times though. I'm a bit surprised at the strength of feeling expressed by some.

I get to see Williamstown a lot and whilst there has been a few good games I'm still yet to see something that says he can transition to the senior side for more than the occasional cameo.
I also don't think I've expressed my views on Mulligan in a vitriolic or a scathing manner and I don't recall too many people being overly critical of him. He's had 4 years at the club and he may be getting a 5th year so I'm sure people will be casting a critical eye on him if doesn't progress.

[LostDoggy]

No I haven't seen enough of him playing to judge whether he deserves another contract. The critiques of Mulligan border on vitriolic at times though. I'm a bit surprised at the strength of feeling expressed by some.
You obviously never read big footy and/or just disagreeing to be different.

[Go_Dogs]

I dont know if its possible but the summer is the time for wondering isn't it?

Haven't quoted the whole post, but I agree with all of it. I'm hopeful he can kick on. He does some of the things you need to do to win finals. If he can just improve his decision making/disposal under pressure he should still become a solid player for us.

Hopefully he can get an extended run early in the season. Will be interesting to see what role the new coaching team will use him in.


I get to see Williamstown a lot and whilst there has been a few good games I'm still yet to see something that says he can transition to the senior side for more than the occasional cameo.

Agree with that.

He played a couple of absolute stinkers at AFL level, but also played a few games where he did a couple of good things. One kick doesn't make a career, but I remember one long ball he kicked to a forwards advantage (against who I can't remember) that was all class. The concern is he seems to lack nous as a defender, and often got out-bodied and positioned by smaller opponents.

If he has a massive pre-season, something clicks and he becomes a reliable defender that would be great, but on what we've seen so far it doesn't seem likely. He's only 22, so although him being retained isn't a clear-cut (or popular) choice, he's shown improvements (albeit small) over his 4 years and must be doing what is asked of him to earn another chance (perhaps a different coaching panel also helps him somewhat).

[Maddog37]

Mulligan was embarrassing in the GF. He gets beaten by anyone with the slightest amount of natural ability.

I tend to be a positive type on forums but he is terrible.

[LongWait]

I get to see Williamstown a lot and whilst there has been a few good games I'm still yet to see something that says he can transition to the senior side for more than the occasional cameo.
I also don't think I've expressed my views on Mulligan in a vitriolic or a scathing manner and I don't recall too many people being overly critical of him. He's had 4 years at the club and he may be getting a 5th year so I'm sure people will be casting a critical eye on him if doesn't progress.

I wasn't referring to you or anyone specifically, but if you think that not too many are overly critical of Mulligan here's a smattering that I dug up from just the past month:

I'd rather a witches hat than Mulligan.

Mulligan is horrible

Mulligan who looks out of place at VFL level

Its pretty doubtful that Mulligan will ever develop average foot skills, or show any attacking flair, his decision making is poor (even at VFL level), and makes some stupid defensive mistakes at times - and its pretty doubtful these traits will ever improve

There is no possible justification for keeping Mulligan

Mulligan is simply nowhere near up to it

But Mulligan........I mean really

I wonder what we see in Mulligan? I'm not 100% sure what else he brings to the table - poor decision making, poor disposal, simply not a footballer...

Irrespective of his contract status, he should not be on our list in 2012 full stop. Dead wood.

Apparently he has a much older and some say extremely attractive girlfriend. I wonder whether this is the reason he is still on the list?
I cannot think of any other reason.

how long they spend on the rookie list before they are elevated successfully (as opposed to unsuccessfully like Mulligan)

Mulligan and Prato are absolute wastes.

Mulligan has lived all our dreams for three + years. Time for it to end. He's an imposter.

He offers so much more than Mulligan it is not funny (which is not saying much - Mulligan cannot play the game, simple as that).

He is hopeless and will never amount to anything when it comes to football.

I mean, we upgraded Mulligan FFS.

[LostDoggy]

Maybe most of the statements are true?

[Before I Die]

I have only seen the televised Williamstown games, and in the GF he was terrible. However, given where he was at when he was promoted, this year probably was a significant improvement. I guess the question is, did he improve to the level the coaches hoped he would and do they see it as part of a continuing upward trend? Or he did he fail to reach the required level, in which case delisting could be just around the corner or possibly as much as 12 months away. Only time, perhaps a matter of weeks, will tell. My guess is that he will be there in 2012, but not beyond.

[bornadog]

I wasn't referring to you or anyone specifically, but if you think that not too many are overly critical of Mulligan here's a smattering that I dug up from just the past month:

I'd rather a witches hat than Mulligan.

Mulligan is horrible

Mulligan who looks out of place at VFL level

Its pretty doubtful that Mulligan will ever develop average foot skills, or show any attacking flair, his decision making is poor (even at VFL level), and makes some stupid defensive mistakes at times - and its pretty doubtful these traits will ever improve

There is no possible justification for keeping Mulligan

Mulligan is simply nowhere near up to it

But Mulligan........I mean really

I wonder what we see in Mulligan? I'm not 100% sure what else he brings to the table - poor decision making, poor disposal, simply not a footballer...

Irrespective of his contract status, he should not be on our list in 2012 full stop. Dead wood.

Apparently he has a much older and some say extremely attractive girlfriend. I wonder whether this is the reason he is still on the list?
I cannot think of any other reason.

how long they spend on the rookie list before they are elevated successfully (as opposed to unsuccessfully like Mulligan)

Mulligan and Prato are absolute wastes.

Mulligan has lived all our dreams for three + years. Time for it to end. He's an imposter.

He offers so much more than Mulligan it is not funny (which is not saying much - Mulligan cannot play the game, simple as that).

He is hopeless and will never amount to anything when it comes to football.

I mean, we upgraded Mulligan FFS.

Whats so negative about that:D:D

[Remi Moses]

I wasn't referring to you or anyone specifically, but if you think that not too many are overly critical of Mulligan here's a smattering that I dug up from just the past month:

I'd rather a witches hat than Mulligan.

Mulligan is horrible

Mulligan who looks out of place at VFL level

Its pretty doubtful that Mulligan will ever develop average foot skills, or show any attacking flair, his decision making is poor (even at VFL level), and makes some stupid defensive mistakes at times - and its pretty doubtful these traits will ever improve

There is no possible justification for keeping Mulligan

Mulligan is simply nowhere near up to it

But Mulligan........I mean really

I wonder what we see in Mulligan? I'm not 100% sure what else he brings to the table - poor decision making, poor disposal, simply not a footballer...

Irrespective of his contract status, he should not be on our list in 2012 full stop. Dead wood.

Apparently he has a much older and some say extremely attractive girlfriend. I wonder whether this is the reason he is still on the list?
I cannot think of any other reason.

how long they spend on the rookie list before they are elevated successfully (as opposed to unsuccessfully like Mulligan)

Mulligan and Prato are absolute wastes.

Mulligan has lived all our dreams for three + years. Time for it to end. He's an imposter.

He offers so much more than Mulligan it is not funny (which is not saying much - Mulligan cannot play the game, simple as that).

He is hopeless and will never amount to anything when it comes to football.

I mean, we upgraded Mulligan FFS.

Like a few others at the Dogs I don't think he'll make it.
Paraphrase that by saying I hope he does, but it has to be called as it's seen.I do agree on not getting personal

[Sockeye Salmon]

I wasn't referring to you or anyone specifically, but if you think that not too many are overly critical of Mulligan here's a smattering that I dug up from just the past month:

I'd rather a witches hat than Mulligan.

Mulligan is horrible

Mulligan who looks out of place at VFL level

Its pretty doubtful that Mulligan will ever develop average foot skills, or show any attacking flair, his decision making is poor (even at VFL level), and makes some stupid defensive mistakes at times - and its pretty doubtful these traits will ever improve

There is no possible justification for keeping Mulligan

Mulligan is simply nowhere near up to it

But Mulligan........I mean really

I wonder what we see in Mulligan? I'm not 100% sure what else he brings to the table - poor decision making, poor disposal, simply not a footballer...

Irrespective of his contract status, he should not be on our list in 2012 full stop. Dead wood.

Apparently he has a much older and some say extremely attractive girlfriend. I wonder whether this is the reason he is still on the list?
I cannot think of any other reason.

how long they spend on the rookie list before they are elevated successfully (as opposed to unsuccessfully like Mulligan)

Mulligan and Prato are absolute wastes.

Mulligan has lived all our dreams for three + years. Time for it to end. He's an imposter.

He offers so much more than Mulligan it is not funny (which is not saying much - Mulligan cannot play the game, simple as that).

He is hopeless and will never amount to anything when it comes to football.

I mean, we upgraded Mulligan FFS.

The truth is a defence against slander

[LostDoggy]

LW. I've watched Mulligan in probably around 50% of his games since being at the club (Willy 2nds and seniors).

At the beginning of the season I thought he could be useful due to his height and weight and due to the fact that Lake was injured, markovic was essentially a rookie defender playing in a KP role and Williams was injury prone.

I defended Mulligan for these reasons. he'd played predominantly Willy 2nds and hadn't totally been found out before this season. He'd also spent much of his time at the club early on the sidelines with injury.

In the later part of the season I zeroed in on specifically watching him during his games, be they Willy or the Bulldogs.

It became apparent to me that he has not got a developed football brain. He cannot read the play at all and regularly gets out positioned by players with natural football abilities listed above.

He would get murdered in most suburban and country leagues. We don't have the time to attempt to teach him how to play for the next three/four years. He's already been there four years from memory.

Everything you've quoted above is correct by posters. Nothing is vitriolic. It's based on spending time watching Mulligan.

[Desipura]

I wasn't referring to you or anyone specifically, but if you think that not too many are overly critical of Mulligan here's a smattering that I dug up from just the past month:

I'd rather a witches hat than Mulligan.

Mulligan is horrible

Mulligan who looks out of place at VFL level

Its pretty doubtful that Mulligan will ever develop average foot skills, or show any attacking flair, his decision making is poor (even at VFL level), and makes some stupid defensive mistakes at times - and its pretty doubtful these traits will ever improve

There is no possible justification for keeping Mulligan

Mulligan is simply nowhere near up to it

But Mulligan........I mean really

I wonder what we see in Mulligan? I'm not 100% sure what else he brings to the table - poor decision making, poor disposal, simply not a footballer...

Irrespective of his contract status, he should not be on our list in 2012 full stop. Dead wood.

Apparently he has a much older and some say extremely attractive girlfriend. I wonder whether this is the reason he is still on the list?
I cannot think of any other reason.

how long they spend on the rookie list before they are elevated successfully (as opposed to unsuccessfully like Mulligan)

Mulligan and Prato are absolute wastes.

Mulligan has lived all our dreams for three + years. Time for it to end. He's an imposter.

He offers so much more than Mulligan it is not funny (which is not saying much - Mulligan cannot play the game, simple as that).

He is hopeless and will never amount to anything when it comes to football.

I mean, we upgraded Mulligan FFS.
I am very diappointed in you. Where is my quote about his much older partner probably being the reason he is still on the list?

[KT31]

I am very diappointed in you. Where is my quote about his much older partner probably being the reason he is still on the list?

It got a mention.

[Mofra]

I don't think you'll find too many that will rave about him. I think he should have been delisted but he hasn't and that's the way it goes. I remember a similar theme directed at Markovic last year and he turned out alright in 2011. Mulligan may surprise us all.
Markovic to me was always the opposite to Mulligan - good kick, excellent body positioning one on one, smart footballer, just gets beaten on the lead when the ball comes into the backline quickly.
Between his ability to cut the angles and with zone defences, he has been able to cover deficiencies and allow his attributes to come to the fore.

Mulligan is an excellent athlete, but lacks in every department Markovic excels at. Even earlier in the year I was hopeful his development woudl continue, but the VFL GF when a bloke who is both slower and a foot shorter than him took him apart was the final straw.

As soon as a player stops improving and they are not in the best 22, is it worth keeping them on the list?

[GVGjr]

I am very diappointed in you. Where is my quote about his much older partner probably being the reason he is still on the list?

You obviously did not read the quoted posts.

[1eyedog]

Markovic to me was always the opposite to Mulligan - good kick, excellent body positioning one on one, smart footballer, just gets beaten on the lead when the ball comes into the backline quickly.
Between his ability to cut the angles and with zone defences, he has been able to cover deficiencies and allow his attributes to come to the fore.

Mulligan is an excellent athlete, but lacks in every department Markovic excels at. Even earlier in the year I was hopeful his development woudl continue, but the VFL GF when a bloke who is both slower and a foot shorter than him took him apart was the final straw.

As soon as a player stops improving and they are not in the best 22, is it worth keeping them on the list?

Most backs get beaten on a lead. I agree with you though, I would prefer a smart footballer who has good disposal than a taller athlete who can't think or kick.

[soupman]

I wasn't referring to you or anyone specifically, but if you think that not too many are overly critical of Mulligan here's a smattering that I dug up from just the past month:

I'd rather a witches hat than Mulligan.

Mulligan is horrible

Mulligan who looks out of place at VFL level
Its pretty doubtful that Mulligan will ever develop average foot skills, or show any attacking flair, his decision making is poor (even at VFL level), and makes some stupid defensive mistakes at times - and its pretty doubtful these traits will ever improve
There is no possible justification for keeping Mulligan

Mulligan is simply nowhere near up to it

But Mulligan........I mean really

I wonder what we see in Mulligan? I'm not 100% sure what else he brings to the table - poor decision making, poor disposal, simply not a footballer...Irrespective of his contract status, he should not be on our list in 2012 full stop. Dead wood.

Apparently he has a much older and some say extremely attractive girlfriend. I wonder whether this is the reason he is still on the list?
I cannot think of any other reason.

how long they spend on the rookie list before they are elevated successfully (as opposed to unsuccessfully like Mulligan)

Mulligan and Prato are absolute wastes.

Mulligan has lived all our dreams for three + years. Time for it to end. He's an imposter.

He offers so much more than Mulligan it is not funny (which is not saying much - Mulligan cannot play the game, simple as that).

He is hopeless and will never amount to anything when it comes to football.

I mean, we upgraded Mulligan FFS.

I'm not sure too many of the above are that bad, and the bolded are actually quite accurate. It's not like he's Giansiracusa who continually gets bagged despite having played over 200 games with many of them being very good.

I don't think he'll make it, and I'm not sure keeping him on the list is worthwhile. I'd rather we picked up a mature age defender who might be able to make it (like Jack Frost for example) who would be just as useful as a backup and may actually develop into something more.

[The Doctor]

when you look at Mulligan at training he looks terrific. his physical and athletic attributes are very good. His work in the drills is also quite good. He kicks well and marks well. This is what the club sees almost everyday and must think there is a lot of "upside".

Unfortunately on matchday he doesn't know how to compete or how to contest. He just gets lost in general play and doesn't know what to do. he hasn't learnt how to use his physical & athletic attributes even for VFL level at this stage. Clearly he was drafted as an athlete first hoping to turn him into a footballer.

i thought Peter Dean was a good defensive coach so if he couldn't get him to AFL standard over the last 4 years I can't realistically see how anyone else will. Happy to be proven wrong though.

[LongWait]

I am very diappointed in you. Where is my quote about his much older partner probably being the reason he is still on the list?

No need to be disappointed Desi - you score about 2/3rds the way down the list!

[LongWait]

To those who think that I'm defending Mulligan - I'm not.

I stated earlier in the thread that I haven't seen enough of Mulligan play live to form a judgement, however I observe an extremely strong anti-Mulligan feeling on here (and yes, on BigFooty as well) which, so far, the club has not acted upon and presumably doesn't share to the same extent.

The above list was simply backing up my observations.

[stefoid]

From the thread on the rookie list, Ive come around to thinking we should move rookies and late, speculative draft picks on quicker - keep turning them over if they dont show significant improvement each year.

Get a higher rate of turnover of players on the fringes of the list so we get more chances to uncover those nuggets of gold who can play AFL if given half a chance.

According to this theory, I would be turning over Mulligan, Prato, Barlow and possibly Johanison - I dont dont really know anything about his rate of improvement.

Get 6 new rookies in this year and you have a much better chance of finding that suprise packet who will be able to play AFL than if you only take two rookies like we are this year.

[bornadog]

when you look at Mulligan at training he looks terrific. his physical and athletic attributes are very good. His work in the drills is also quite good. He kicks well and marks well. This is what the club sees almost everyday and must think there is a lot of "upside".

Unfortunately on matchday he doesn't know how to compete or how to contest. He just gets lost in general play and doesn't know what to do. he hasn't learnt how to use his physical & athletic attributes even for VFL level at this stage. Clearly he was drafted as an athlete first hoping to turn him into a footballer.

i thought Peter Dean was a good defensive coach so if he couldn't get him to AFL standard over the last 4 years I can't realistically see how anyone else will. Happy to be proven wrong though.

Even though Peter Dean has tried, do you think he can be taught to compete better and use his physical and athletic abilities? Coming from Queensland and not playing footy as a youngster maybe against him but he is 22 years old so, still young enough to learn more.

[The Doctor]

Even though Peter Dean has tried, do you think he can be taught to compete better and use his physical and athletic abilities? Coming from Queensland and not playing footy as a youngster maybe against him but he is 22 years old so, still young enough to learn more.

thats the problem. not playing footy as a youngster he hasn't developed a good game sense or doesn't have instinctive footy skills. He is a reactionary footballer but because he can't read the game very well he reacts too slowly.

he is playing one of the most demanding positions on the field and is easily exposed in one on one contests. We may see some incremental improvements but as i said I doubt any new coach will be able to develop him into an AFL standard footballer let alone a premiership standard defender. If McCartney can then he's a genius!!

[GVGjr]

when you look at Mulligan at training he looks terrific. his physical and athletic attributes are very good. His work in the drills is also quite good. He kicks well and marks well. This is what the club sees almost everyday and must think there is a lot of "upside".

Unfortunately on matchday he doesn't know how to compete or how to contest. He just gets lost in general play and doesn't know what to do. he hasn't learnt how to use his physical & athletic attributes even for VFL level at this stage. Clearly he was drafted as an athlete first hoping to turn him into a footballer.

i thought Peter Dean was a good defensive coach so if he couldn't get him to AFL standard over the last 4 years I can't realistically see how anyone else will. Happy to be proven wrong though.


It's his marking that holds him back. For a guy off 199cm he gets outmarked too often. Was it Nicoski who outmarked him in a straight up one on one contest on his debut?
He's got pace and can compete with leading forwards like he showed against Fevola in a VFL game but unless he can learn to be a bit stronger in marking contests it will hold him back

[The Doctor]

It's his marking that holds him back. For a guy off 199cm he gets outmarked too often. Was it Nicoski who outmarked him in a straight up one on one contest on his debut?
He's got pace and can compete with leading forwards like he showed against Fevola in a VFL game but unless he can learn to be a bit stronger in marking contests it will hold him back

i think a lot of that is he doesn't know how to position himself when competing for a mark. he gets lost in the contest or on the journey to the contest which renders any physical advantage useless. He probably has trouble reading the ball in flight.

[Desipura]

It got a mention.
Oh damn, it is to....sorry:o

[Sockeye Salmon]

From the thread on the rookie list, Ive come around to thinking we should move rookies and late, speculative draft picks on quicker - keep turning them over if they dont show significant improvement each year.

Get a higher rate of turnover of players on the fringes of the list so we get more chances to uncover those nuggets of gold who can play AFL if given half a chance.

According to this theory, I would be turning over Mulligan, Prato, Barlow and possibly Johanison - I dont dont really know anything about his rate of improvement.

Get 6 new rookies in this year and you have a much better chance of finding that suprise packet who will be able to play AFL than if you only take two rookies like we are this year.

Hargrave and Cross were two who were drafted late and took a few years to come good.

[immortalmike]

Hargrave and Cross were two who were drafted late and took a few years to come good.

Brian took a while also.

[Ghost Dog]

What was he before an AFL player. Basketballer or somesuch?

[stefoid]

Hargrave and Cross were two who were drafted late and took a few years to come good.

Crossy would have been punted after his first two years under a 'turn em over' policy. Hargrave, Im not sure. Did he show continual improvement each year? My memory fails.

Lake also came on slowly, but improved year on year, so he would have stayed.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Crossy would have been punted after his first two years under a 'turn em over' policy. Hargrave, Im not sure. Did he show continual improvement each year? My memory fails.

Lake also came on slowly, but improved year on year, so he would have stayed.

Hargrave had the twisted bowel and went back to WA for his first year.

[chef]

Jack Frost is a better option than Mulligan, so I would he have his spot of the main list as I don't think he will be left come Rookie draft time.

[Mitcha]

Jack Frost is a better option than Mulligan, so I would he have his spot of the main list as I don't think he will be left come Rookie draft time.
It seems as though Jack Frost has had some fairly serious surgery and is doubtful to play at all until mid 2012.

[Dancin' Douggy]

That is like comparing Mr Ed to Phar Lap.

I don't even care if I agree or not. THAT'S FUNNY.

[chef]

It seems as though Jack Frost has had some fairly serious surgery and is doubtful to play at all until mid 2012.

On his hips?

Apparently only going to miss the first few rounds and shouldn't stop us from grabbing him IMO.