Pre-season

[Bulldog Revolution]

Im seeing snippets of news of other clubs starting their pre-season

Given that this shapes as a very important pre-season for us I'm wondering if anyone knows when it starts?

[Murphy'sLore]

I thought I read somewhere 7th November.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Spoke to Brendon and he said definately Nov 7:)

Been down at the Pound quite a lot lately & quite a few players are coming to club and doing training, yesterday saw : Lukey D, Libba, Boyd, Coomey, Gia, Grant, Moles, Dale, Addison, Roughhead, Vespa, they all look good :)

[Cyberdoggie]

Spoke to Brendon and he said definately Nov 7:)

Been down at the Pound quite a lot lately & quite a few players are coming to club and doing training, yesterday saw : Lukey D, Libba, Boyd, Coomey, Gia, Grant, Moles, Dale, Addison, Roughhead, Vespa, they all look good :)

So i guess that tells us that we are keeping Addison on the list for next year?

Any sign of Stack?

[OLD SCRAGGer]

So i guess that tells us that we are keeping Addison on the list for next year?

Any sign of Stack?

Nope, no sign of Stack. He told my nephew after Willy grand final loss that he wanted out!!

[The Underdog]

Nope, no sign of Stack. He told my nephew after Willy grand final loss that he wanted out!!

Doesn't want to play AFL football anymore then I guess.

[Greystache]

Nope, no sign of Stack. He told my nephew after Willy grand final loss that he wanted out!!

In fairness to Brennan he probably found himself in a pressure situation and as usual chose the wrong option. I'm sure if you asked him at training unde no pressure he would've chosen the "I'm keen to stay at the club" option.

[bulldogsman]

It was mentioned last year Stack wanted to go back to WA but we couldn't get a trade done. I think he has a kid up there or something?

[chef]

In fairness to Brennan he probably found himself in a pressure situation and as usual chose the wrong option. I'm sure if you asked him at training unde no pressure he would've chosen the "I'm keen to stay at the club" option.

Pretty sure he wants to move back to WA to be closer to his son, which is understandable. More to life for some people.

[Greystache]

Pretty sure he wants to move back to WA to be closer to his son, which is understandable. More to life for some people.

It's called a bit of light humour.

[chef]

It's called a bit of light humour.

Sorry, I took it as bagging. My bad.

[westdog54]

In fairness to Brennan he probably found himself in a pressure situation and as usual chose the wrong option. I'm sure if you asked him at training unde no pressure he would've chosen the "I'm keen to stay at the club" option.

I LOLed.

On the serious side though, made our decision a lot easier and probably prolonged Mulligan's career for another season

[AndrewP6]

I LOLed.

On the serious side though, made our decision a lot easier and probably prolonged Mulligan's career for another season

I reckon that's only a positive for James!

[divvydan]

Last couple of years during preseason we've generally had 2-3 regular weekly sessions on the oval that people can get along to and watch. Obviously pre-season doesn't officially start until Monday but does anyone know if that's going to continue this preseason as well?

[westdog54]

Last couple of years during preseason we've generally had 2-3 regular weekly sessions on the oval that people can get along to and watch. Obviously pre-season doesn't officially start until Monday but does anyone know if that's going to continue this preseason as well?

Give the club a ring during the week and see what you can find out.

[MrMahatma]

I must say - our PR team are doing well. With a new coach, we've been in the paper a lot recently, and often for no other reason. Feels like we've been in the paper a lot more than other clubs with new coaches (Melb for example). Given all the board rumblings, sacked coach, Lake stuff this year, I think our PR guys have done an exeptional job to right the ship early on in the pre-season.

Looking forward to hearing a few blokes are having "Their best pre-season ever".

[The Coon Dog]

Looking forward to hearing a few blokes are having "Their best pre-season ever".

Already started with Boyd & Cross breaking the club recored for the beep test this morning.

[Greystache]

Already started with Boyd & Cross breaking the club recored for the beep test this morning.

Do you know what numbers they got TCD?

[The Coon Dog]

Do you know what numbers they got TCD?

No, just mentioned on the club's Facebook or Twitter.

[soupman]

Looking at the photo's one the clubs website today I've gathered the following:

-Mulligan is definitely still at the club.
-Barlow is nowehere to be seen in the photo's, which would indicate he is probably gone because usually he would feature strongly in a fitness based session.
-Tom Williams has one of the dirtiest mo's I've ever seen.
-Zephi Skinner looks thicker than I rmember and is also sporting a mo.
-Justin Sherman has what appears to be an atrocious tatt around his neck. I'm hoping it's just a dark necklace.

Also can anyone identify the Dahlhaus lookalike in the background of pic 14? It's not Wood because he has red runners, and I'm not sure who else would sport hair that long?

[The Coon Dog]

Some pics via Facebook:

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/387203_10150390073022487_356560647486_8402788_187099592_n.jp g

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/388038_10150390074657487_356560647486_8402804_233846781_n.jp g

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/382660_10150390074757487_356560647486_8402806_2807690_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/308684_10150390072557487_356560647486_8402783_429887389_n.jp g

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391171_10150390072672487_356560647486_8402785_1621808610_n.j pg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/387591_10150390073807487_356560647486_8402794_1812606770_n.j pg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/318579_10150390074122487_356560647486_8402798_397457391_n.jp g

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/393270_10150390075047487_356560647486_8402812_308576800_n.jp g

[Desipura]

Hooper looks bigger in the face.

[BulldogBelle]

Hooper looks bigger in the face.



Bigger in the face generally means more weight

Not a good thing for Andrew given his lack of agility, pace and endurance will kill his senior prospects

[Cyberdoggie]

Thanks for the pics CD,

Will be a good reference for before and after pre-season images. :)

I'd expect to see Cross bulk up a tad

[aker39]

-Justin Sherman has what appears to be an atrocious tatt around his neck. I'm hoping it's just a dark necklace.




It's a tatt, and a shocking one at that.

[Desipura]

Bigger in the face generally means more weight

Not a good thing for Andrew given his lack of agility, pace and endurance will kill his senior prospects
Thats what I was alluding to.

[bornadog]

Also can anyone identify the Dahlhaus lookalike in the background of pic 14? It's not Wood because he has red runners, and I'm not sure who else would sport hair that long?

Is it Johannissen ?

[Pickenitup]

Saw on Herald Sun website JJ is staying on our rookie list looks like Barlow and Prato have been cut

[ledge]

Bigger in the face generally means more weight

Not a good thing for Andrew given his lack of agility, pace and endurance will kill his senior prospects

Haha Hooper has a fat face so he is unfit and put on more weight.
Just for the record he has a fat face always has had.

Love it, okay dont pick anyone in the draft who has a fat face:D

Now we know why lukey D wasnt picked up earlier.. its all about the fat face.

[EasternWest]

Haha Hooper has a fat face so he is unfit and put on more weight.
Just for the record he has a fat face always has had.

Love it, okay dont pick anyone in the draft who has a fat face:D

Now we know why lukey D wasnt picked up earlier.. its all about the fat face.

He's also always had a fat body too. Coincidence? I think not.

I'd say looking at the pics, he's once again come back overweight.

[Mantis]

It's a tatt, and a shocking one at that.

They're all shocking aren't they?

[Mantis]

He's also always had a fat body too. Coincidence? I think not.

I'd say looking at the pics, he's once again come back overweight.

If he has he is a dill.

[The Pie Man]

Is Jarrad Grant finally putting on some weight?

[SlimPickens]

Thought Vez looked fairly cut from the pictures. I know there were some queries on his weight over the season, looks to have himself in shape for the pre-season which is good to see.

[EasternWest]

Is Jarrad Grant finally putting on some weight?

I don't see Grant in those pics. You're not referring to Mulligan are you?

[Ghost Dog]

Easton wood is an amazing looking athlete.
Had some good vision of the boys training on fox sports tonight. But couldn't hear it as I was in the gym.
Let's hope Mo-vember fundraising is to blame for that beast on your upper lip Tom Williams.

[w3design]

Oh god Tommy that is a terrible terrible effort. Worse than mine.

Zephi is obviously going for the early 90's Eddie Murphy look. But with a dirty rat-tail.

Shermo's tatt looks ok imo. Like a long cross necklace that finishes on his side as if being knocked about while running.

Vesz looks trim in the pic I saw.

[w3design]

Does anyone else think Panos looks a bit like Dale Morris?

[EasternWest]

Does anyone else think Panos looks a bit like Dale Morris?

Yep. I thought the same thing.

[Desipura]

If he has he is a dill.

A picture tells a thousand words.

[chef]

I don't see Grant in those pics. You're not referring to Mulligan are you?

Pic 27.

[EasternWest]

Pic 27.

Oh sorry. I thought you were referring to the pics on here. I'm not on Facebook. Cheers.

[Greystache]

Oh sorry. I thought you were referring to the pics on here. I'm not on Facebook. Cheers.

Neither am I, but you can still look at them.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150390072342487.383555.356560647486&type=1

[Happy Days]

Let's hope Mo-vember fundraising is to blame for that beast on your upper lip Tom Williams.

It's not. At least it makes him look the part of a dour, no-nonsense backman.

Can't find the photo of Hooper? Agreed that Sherman's tattoo is awful.

[divvydan]

It's not. At least it makes him look the part of a dour, no-nonsense backman.

Can't find the photo of Hooper? Agreed that Sherman's tattoo is awful.

Hooper is next to Williams in the Mo picture, riding the bike. Only one I can see of him.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

It's not. At least it makes him look the part of a dour, no-nonsense backman.

Can't find the photo of Hooper? Agreed that Sherman's tattoo is awful.

I LIKE IT myself

[chef]

Oh sorry. I thought you were referring to the pics on here. I'm not on Facebook. Cheers.

They are on the clubs website.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/season2011/photogalleries/tabid/16956/default.aspx

[Twodogs]

-Justin Sherman has what appears to be an atrocious tatt around his neck. I'm hoping it's just a dark necklace.


I dont think many players train in necklaces.



I was at training for a whle. After the players did high intensity running for what seemed like ages they got the footys out.

The one drill they practised over and over again was long kicking to a lead up forward. The playing group broke up into a few groups of six or seven. An assistant would kick it to a player who marked it just outside the fifty, another player would stand the mark and then a leading forward would make a break from the goal square to about 40-50 metres away. Most times the player with the ball would kick it to his lead but once in a whle another player would peel off then run to the pocket and the kick would be delivered in his direction while he ran with the flight of the ball.

From what I could gather it looks like we will take the ball along the wing and then bring the ball inwards to lead up forwards running straight up the middle. It makes sesnse with guys like Panos, Grant and Sherman likely to be our main targets. Every now and then we'll pop it over the top into the pocket to break it up.

If McCartney didnt like what he saw he'd take that group aside and explain what they were doing wrong in a calm and straightforward manner. No ranting or raving. He just quietly explained what he thought they were doing wrong and how he wanted it done. He's a lot more one on one than Rocket was

Having said that the player's kicking skils were a bit rusty. I know that it was the first session for the year but if we are going to rely on pinpoint passing as a cornerstone of our game plan then it's an area we are going to have to improve on. The guys were marking the ball pretty well though. The ball hit the ground a few times but that was more due to kicks landing short or missing their intended targets than anything else.

Rohan Smith can still kick a footy over distance with pinpoint accuracy though.

[chef]

Thanks for the write up Twodogs.

[ledge]

Gee I remember the days when early in pre season they wouldnt touch a footy, would be all about running, fitness and weights.

[The Doctor]

From what I could gather it looks like we will take the ball along the wing and then bring the ball inwards to lead up forwards running straight up the middle. It makes sesnse with guys like Panos, Grant and Sherman likely to be our main targets. Every now and then we'll pop it over the top into the pocket to break it up.


Were these guys the lead up forwards in the drill?

Did they deliver any long balls to the goal square looking for the big pack mark from a Roughead or Minson?

[EasternWest]

Bulldogs have just tweeted the TT results. No surprises Cross, Boyd and Gia 1,2,3. Pleasing to see Howard, DJ and Tutt in 4,5,6.

[bornadog]

Bulldogs have just tweeted the TT results. No surprises Cross, Boyd and Gia 1,2,3. Pleasing to see Howard, DJ and Tutt in 4,5,6.

Excellent to see some younger guys come in the top 6.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If McCartney didnt like what he saw he'd take that group aside and explain what they were doing wrong in a calm and straightforward manner. No ranting or raving. He just quietly explained what he thought they were doing wrong and how he wanted it done.

If he was ranting or rraving on day 1 of pre-season he'd have a heart attack by round 4

[Desipura]

Bulldogs have just tweeted the TT results. No surprises Cross, Boyd and Gia 1,2,3. Pleasing to see Howard, DJ and Tutt in 4,5,6.
The three slowest are the fittest. Agree it is pleasing to see 4,5,6. Where was Vez?

[EasternWest]

Dunno. They only gave top 6.

[stefoid]

tutt eh? Thats good. I wonder if he will be a suprise packet next year? God knows we need an midfielder who can break lines and kick the thing (besides Grif).

[LostDoggy]

The three slowest are the fittest. Agree it is pleasing to see 4,5,6. Where was Vez?

TTs are all about middle-distance fitness and suits aerobically fit guys like Crossy and Gia. Guys who are explosively quick over the first 5-10 metres tend to be anaerobically fit so TTs don't really suit them all that much (relatively speaking, of course), and conversely, middle-distance runners aren't going to look particularly quick on a footy field.

So in a sense, Crossy, Gia and Boydy aren't slow at all (they did finish in the top 3 of a running exercise) -- it just depends on the distances we're talking about. I guess what it does mean in a footy sense is that these guys will be running at the same pace in the fourth quarter as they did in the first (and so will be performing at the same consistent capacity over 4 quarters), while more explosive guys have to time their bursts.

[Mofra]

tutt eh? Thats good. I wonder if he will be a suprise packet next year? God knows we need an midfielder who can break lines and kick the thing (besides Grif).
One of our quicker mids also has a pretty good tank? That can only be a positive.

[LostDoggy]

Pic 27.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150390076067487&set=a.10150390072342487.383555.356560647486&type=3&theater

There is Grant's photo, he actually looks like he has finally put on a bit of weight

[Murphy'sLore]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150390076067487&set=a.10150390072342487.383555.356560647486&type=3&theater

There is Grant's photo, he actually looks like he has finally put on a bit of weight

A bit. Not much.

[Twodogs]

Were these guys the lead up forwards in the drill?

Did they deliver any long balls to the goal square looking for the big pack mark from a Roughead or Minson?


With all the new haircuts, jumpers, tatts, body shapes and necklaces it was a bit hard to tell who was who. The fact I took little interest in footy last year didnt help either. Griff was definitely in the group in front of me delivering the ball to the leading forward who I think was Panos. Vez was running ito the pocket for the occasional pop over the top.


This is pretty typical os the breakdown of the groups;

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/393270_10150390075047487_356560647486_8402812_308576800_n.jp g

[stefoid]

Hes grimacing slightly because he is massively tensing his right arm for the camera!

[ledge]

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video%20%20audio/tabid/8663/contentid/401790/default.aspx

Have a look at the scars on Ayces shoulders already.

[divvydan]

Bulldogs have just tweeted the TT results. No surprises Cross, Boyd and Gia 1,2,3. Pleasing to see Howard, DJ and Tutt in 4,5,6.

Just looking at the video of the TT, it looks like Picken was in 6th, with Tutt 7th, just ahead of Moles and Wood.

[azabob]

Bulldogs have just tweeted the TT results. No surprises Cross, Boyd and Gia 1,2,3. Pleasing to see Howard, DJ and Tutt in 4,5,6.

According to later tweet Howard came 3rd in the HIR that was done on Monday.

[w3design]

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video%20%20audio/tabid/8663/contentid/401790/default.aspx

Have a look at the scars on Ayces shoulders already.



They stick around mate. You should see my ankle.

[jeemak]

They stick around mate. You should see my ankle.

"Bro, the physical scars stick around Bro, but what I saw will stick with me inside forever"

Gus

[Bulldog Revolution]

Just looking at the video of the TT, it looks like Picken was in 6th, with Tutt 7th, just ahead of Moles and Wood.

Yep, thats what i saw

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

"Bro, the physical scars stick around Bro, but what I saw will stick with me inside forever"

Gus

Deep

[Greystache]

Does anyone know if there's training on at Whitten Oval tomorrow? I rang the club but they just told me to check the website, which is helpful, the website's about as useful as last weeks Herald-Sun.

[Dazza]

Looking forward to next year already. Great that the young kids seem to be building a tank. Even better that they have a bit of pace and kicking skills to go along with it.

Anyone know how Grant, Vespremi, Jones and cordy fared? Grant was always struggling with the ruckmen with these sort of things when he first started.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Does anyone know if there's training on at Whitten Oval tomorrow? I rang the club but they just told me to check the website, which is helpful, the website's about as useful as last weeks Herald-Sun.

Was told by club official last week that the boys ONLY have Thursdays & Sundays off until Christmas ..does that help?

[Greystache]

Was told by club official last week that the boys ONLY have Thursdays & Sundays off until Christmas ..does that help?

It does, thanks. Do you know what time sessions have been starting?

[bornadog]

Bulldogs have just tweeted the TT results. No surprises Cross, Boyd and Gia 1,2,3. Pleasing to see Howard, DJ and Tutt in 4,5,6.

Midfield workhorse Daniel Cross claimed line honours, while skipper Matthew Boyd and Daniel Giansiracusa rounded out the top-three places.

In pleasing signs, young talent Christian Howard, Nathan Djerrkurra, Liam Picken, Jason Tutt and Brodie Moles were the next to cross the line to complete the first eight places.

[Cyberdoggie]

If you get a chance watch the coach's interview from day 1 of training,
really worth the five minutes of your life.

McCartney just impresses me more and more with everything he says,
in particular a journalist asked him about Cooney, when he'll be back and is he our best player. McCartney didn't go as far as answer a yes but said he's a good player and that the sooner this club gets it's head around the fact that we aren't reliant on individual stars to win then we will be better for it.
I think he very much understands that we idolize indivual players so much because of the lack of success as a team.

McCartney also was asked about our first draft pick and what we'll target, he replied "a quality person", and wouldn't be lead to say whether it would be a midfielder or best available.

Perhaps we are targetting Markworth?

[Ghost Dog]

Midfield workhorse Daniel Cross claimed line honours, while skipper Matthew Boyd and Daniel Giansiracusa rounded out the top-three places.

In pleasing signs, young talent Christian Howard, Nathan Djerrkurra, Liam Picken, Jason Tutt and Brodie Moles were the next to cross the line to complete the first eight places.

despite calls to delist, moles remains strong in aspects of his game. looking forward to seeing more of b.m in 2012

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think Moles can be a good player, even if he's 26 and a late developer. It would seem much of his battle is mental, as I read not long ago he's still very nervous prior to games to the extent of often throwing up?

He's got pace, a big body, his skills are good and he runs with the ball. Especially given with where our list is at - he has something to offer.

[jazzadogs]

It does, thanks. Do you know what time sessions have been starting?
Does anyone have an answer for this? I was hoping to head down on Friday.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Was down there today. Boys out on track around 0945 until just after 1200. I'm guessing they are going to be out early most days to beat the heat of the day. Hope this helps :)

[jazzadogs]

Was down there today. Boys out on track around 0945 until just after 1200. I'm guessing they are going to be out early most days to beat the heat of the day. Hope this helps :)
Yep, that's great. I was planning on getting there around 10am, assumed it would be an early start. Thanks.

[LostDoggy]

I know my father was there today. Will pass on any good info if there was any. I think he spoke with Cooney.

[Greystache]

I went to training today, it was very interesting for this time of year. About 2 hours of running and competitive work with balls involved, then about 30 mins of interval running running. Much of the focus was around closing down space and forcing stoppages, along with working on basics like running hard to man the mark and being accountable for picking up your direct opponent.

McCartney also came over to talk to some of the fans. He mentioned how the focus was on working harder to bulk up the skinny players, playing more accountable footy, and focusing less on flashy fast ball movement that won't stand up against good teams. He was pretty adamant that players who weren't hard are not what he wants.

[ledge]

I went to training today, it was very interesting for this time of year. About 2 hours of running and competitive work with balls involved, then about 30 mins of interval running running. Much of the focus was around closing down space and forcing stoppages, along with working on basics like running hard to man the mark and being accountable for picking up your direct opponent.

McCartney also came over to talk to some of the fans. He mentioned how the focus was on working harder to bulk up the skinny players, playing more accountable footy, and focusing less on flashy fast ball movement that won't stand up against good teams. He was pretty adamant that players who weren't hard are not what he wants.

Whats your thoughts of him being a good coach from what you have seen?

[Greystache]

Whats your thoughts of him being a good coach from what you have seen?

I haven't seen a game or even match practice under McCartney yet, so I have no idea. But he seems adamant we need to change dramatically, focus heavily on areas that weren't a priority previously, and based on what I saw today I'm a lot more optimistic about next year than I was this year.

[ledge]

Well thats a good sign

[Ghost Dog]

I know my father was there today. Will pass on any good info if there was any. I think he spoke with Cooney.

Would be good to know how Coons is shaping up.

[LostDoggy]

Would be good to know how Coons is shaping up.

Sorry nothing much was said. My dad arrived late,Coons recognized him and asked how he(my dad) was going.

[SlimPickens]

Would be good to know how Coons is shaping up.

Didn't see him yesterday, must have been inside. Same with Lake and Higgins who didn't train with the main group.

[SlimPickens]

I haven't seen a game or even match practice under McCartney yet, so I have no idea. But he seems adamant we need to change dramatically, focus heavily on areas that weren't a priority previously, and based on what I saw today I'm a lot more optimistic about next year than I was this year.

From what BMac said yesterday it would be fair to say you won't get away with much in terms of a lack of defensive efforts.

[Cyberdoggie]

From what BMac said yesterday it would be fair to say you won't get away with much in terms of a lack of defensive efforts.

He just keeps saying all the right things, we need to be hard, we need to be better defensively and we need to get bigger. We all know it and we all can't wait to see the fruits of his labour come round 1.

[Mantis]

Would be good to know how Coons is shaping up.

Last time I checked there was no magic solution for a degenerative knee.

[stefoid]

Last time I checked there was no magic solution for a degenerative knee.

BMac will just have a word to it and educate it about what is required.

[Cyberdoggie]

Last time I checked there was no magic solution for a degenerative knee.

But surely if Warnie can grow back his own hair, then Cooney can grow back a knee cap and cartillage? :p

[stefoid]

But surely if Warnie can grow back his own hair, then Cooney can grow back a knee cap and cartillage? :p

Advanced knee? Oui, Oui!

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Advanced knee? Oui, Oui!

Love your work

[bornadog]

Training Wednesday at 9.40am

[KT31]

Training Wednesday at 9.40am

For us or the players ?:D

[Cyberdoggie]

Some new videos up on the WB website today, The coach and Robert Murphy in separate interviews re training and leadership group announcements.

[azabob]

Some new videos up on the WB website today, The coach and Robert Murphy in separate interviews re training and leadership group announcements.

Thanks for that.

[ledge]

Another one just popped up with the coach about the draft, they say Eade had a no dickhead policy watching the new coach he is really full on with having good people/players off the field.

[Ghost Dog]

Another one just popped up with the coach about the draft, they say Eade had a no dickhead policy watching the new coach he is really full on with having good people/players off the field.

Sherman must have blinded the recruiting boys with his charm and good looks.

[mjp]

He just keeps saying all the right things, we need to be hard, we need to be better defensively and we need to get bigger. We all know it and we all can't wait to see the fruits of his labour come round 1.

Why do we need to get bigger?

The whole 'pushed off the ball' thing? I am so tired of hearing about that. Dalhaus was a skinny whippet and seemed to cope just fine. Hooper looks like a key on legs and can't get near it...

What is the player type we are after? If Geelong is the model, Selwood played in a GF in his first year and was pretty darned skinny back then...it takes all kinds and all body shapes.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Why do we need to get bigger?

The whole 'pushed off the ball' thing? I am so tired of hearing about that. Dalhaus was a skinny whippet and seemed to cope just fine. Hooper looks like a key on legs and can't get near it...

What is the player type we are after? If Geelong is the model, Selwood played in a GF in his first year and was pretty darned skinny back then...it takes all kinds and all body shapes.

This is the one thing that I haven't particularly agreed with on McCartney's behalf.

I don't think body size is the problem -- hell, it was only two years ago we were one of the biggest bodied sides around.

Whilst we do need a few hardened bodies, I can't see why it's a priority over everything else.

[Ghost Dog]

This is the one thing that I haven't particularly agreed with on McCartney's behalf.

I don't think body size is the problem -- hell, it was only two years ago we were one of the biggest bodied sides around.

Whilst we do need a few hardened bodies, I can't see why it's a priority over everything else.

Ever noticed how Geelongs young kids, in recent times, look like full blooded players the moment they step on the field? In terms of size and confidence.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Ever noticed how Geelongs young kids, in recent times, look like full blooded players the moment they step on the field? In terms of size and confidence.

That's tripe.

As mjp said, Selwood was skinny, Christensen is skinny, Menzel is lean, Duncan is lean etc. The difference is, they have non-negociables as soon as they set foot in that side.

It's application - it's not body size. They all get bigger with time, and to pass over Crozier for Clay Smith (for example) would be stupid.

[Greystache]

Why do we need to get bigger?

The whole 'pushed off the ball' thing? I am so tired of hearing about that. Dalhaus was a skinny whippet and seemed to cope just fine. Hooper looks like a key on legs and can't get near it...

What is the player type we are after? If Geelong is the model, Selwood played in a GF in his first year and was pretty darned skinny back then...it takes all kinds and all body shapes.

Skinny?

I wish all of our young players were this "skinny"

http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images/AFL/AFL%20A-E/Joel_Selwood_RS_2007_L.jpg

[mjp]

Hmmm - look up the photos of him from 2006 (the year he was drafted) - he is skinny, skinny, skinny. Just type in 'Pictures of Joel Selwood playing for the Bendigo Pioneers in Google'.

I know I should know by now how to include an image but I don't and am too lazy to look it up.

[Greystache]

Hmmm - look up the photos of him from 2006 (the year he was drafted) - he is skinny, skinny, skinny. Just type in 'Pictures of Joel Selwood playing for the Bendigo Pioneers in Google'.

I know I should know by now how to include an image but I don't and am too lazy to look it up.

That photo is from his first season of AFL footy, if he wasn't built like that when drafted then that's a testament to the work the Geelong players put into their weights.

[Greystache]

This photo is Selwood in the lead up to the draft.

http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/6926/01658526387200ls1.jpg

This aqnd the on above are him during his first season in 2007.

http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images/AFL/Geelong/JoelSelwood_RS_Large.jpg

If anything, this proves how much of a focus it was for Geelong to get their players big quickly.

[mjp]

This photo is Selwood in the lead up to the draft.

If anything, this proves how much of a focus it was for Geelong to get their players big quickly.

Cheers GS...that is one of the images I was looking at.

Geelong provide the tools and systems...the player takes advantage and works hard. Selwood was skinny when he was drafted - and that was at the end of a year when he barely plated because of a knee and you would assume he would have been spending some time in the gym.

We shouldn't be scared to draft skinny players. 17yo males are very often skinny...they start putting on weight later on...

[Dancin' Douggy]

Listen, there's skinny and then there's very skinny, and then there's famished, then malnourished.
Murphy arrived in the malnourished class, which makes skinny 'normal'.
A normally built kid at the age of 16/17 is ripe for rapid muscle development.
Then there are freaks who are built like gorillas and have side burns in grade 6.

[Greystache]

Short, tough session today, had the boys working very hard. Mostly the younger guys training with a spattering of the fitter senior players. Mulligan, Williams, Hargrave, and Lake all did run throughs on the sidelines.

The standout in the match based drills was Dahlhaus, he was starting in the centre bounces and pushing forward and was everywhere. He finished a lot of the plays kicking goals on the run.

The player that really stood out in the running drills was Skinner, he was consistently at the front of the B group and looks to have increased his fitness dramatically.

[Maddog37]

Thanks Stache.

Good news on Skinner and I am excited to think what Dal might yet become. A player with his speed and instinct with added strength and fitness is a tantalising prospect.....

[stefoid]

Its not Clay's size specifically that Mac targeted - he is a bit under 6ft. Its his contested skills - he keeps his feet, fights to get the ball, fights to clear the ball, and fights to stop the opposition from doing either.

that is not crozier's bio - completely different players.

[dogman]

I went down for a quick peek today too. Boys working really hard.

I'm first to admit that I'm not Grant's biggest fan, but he looks like a changed man to me. Firstly looks bigger and secondly didn't look disinterested as he did during the year.

He ran hard the whole time. The last drill had him in a group of about 7, which inlcuded Dahlhaus doing 3 seperate sets of shuttle runs. Dahlhaus won the first set but Grant the last two.

It's make or break next season, so hopefully he has pulled his finger out.

[bornadog]

I went down for a quick peek today too. Boys working really hard.

I'm first to admit that I'm not Grant's biggest fan, but he looks like a changed man to me. Firstly looks bigger and secondly didn't look disinterested as he did during the year.

He ran hard the whole time. The last drill had him in a group of about 7, which inlcuded Dahlhaus doing 3 seperate sets of shuttle runs. Dahlhaus won the first set but Grant the last two.

It's make or break next season, so hopefully he has pulled his finger out.

He certainly has the talent, looking forward to seeing him next season.

[LongWait]

I went down for a quick peek today too. Boys working really hard.

I'm first to admit that I'm not Grant's biggest fan, but he looks like a changed man to me. Firstly looks bigger and secondly didn't look disinterested as he did during the year.

He ran hard the whole time. The last drill had him in a group of about 7, which inlcuded Dahlhaus doing 3 seperate sets of shuttle runs. Dahlhaus won the first set but Grant the last two.

It's make or break next season, so hopefully he has pulled his finger out.

I appreciate these insights Dogman - the stuff you can't get from media reports - honest observations from a hard marker are really great.

[KT31]

Cheers GS...that is one of the images I was looking at.

Geelong provide the tools and systems...the player takes advantage and works hard. Selwood was skinny when he was drafted - and that was at the end of a year when he barely plated because of a knee and you would assume he would have been spending some time in the gym.

We shouldn't be scared to draft skinny players. 17yo males are very often skinny...they start putting on weight later on...

Even SS and myself.:D

[DragzLS1]

If I recall its training tonight with the new draftees

Anybody going to have a look at them? if so can we get some feedback on how they go.

[stefoid]

Take your camera's, you bludgers!

[Greystache]

Brutal, brutal session today. The amount of contested footy, wrestling, and pressuring of the ball carrier was extreme. The focus on getting the players stronger and more competitive is there for all to see, McCartney was standing in the thick of it shout at players to keep their feet and not go to ground when they're tired.

A couple of the younger players are looking to have already starting bulking up, Tom Liberatore looks to have put on several kilos already, he was giving Sherman a hell of a time in the wrestling/contested ball drills. Pleasingling Howard was matched up against Boyd and held his own until fatigue really set in.

Clay Smith is a monster of a kid and was keeping up with the elite running group at the end. I expect him to be in contention for round one.

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks grey, great to hear.

[Dazza]

Next season is going to be an interesting one.

[Mofra]

Clay Smith is a monster of a kid and was keeping up with the elite running group at the end. I expect him to be in contention for round one.
Big call but there are precedents.

Cheers for the update

[stefoid]

Brutal, brutal session today. The amount of contested footy, wrestling, and pressuring of the ball carrier was extreme. The focus on getting the players stronger and more competitive is there for all to see, McCartney was standing in the thick of it shout at players to keep their feet and not go to ground when they're tired.
.

This is what has been lacking under Eade in my ignorant opinion. Under Eade, we developed a good hard attack on the footy to win the ball, but when pressured, our disposal dropped away, meaning we were essentially flat track bullies - knock off the lesser teams easy enough, but crumple under the pressure applied by the top teams and our scoring really dried up.

to stand up under pressure-match conditons you have to practice under pressure match conditions, surely?

[bornadog]

This is what has been lacking under Eade in my ignorant opinion. Under Eade, we developed a good hard attack on the footy to win the ball, but when pressured, our disposal dropped away, meaning we were essentially flat track bullies - knock off the lesser teams easy enough, but crumple under the pressure applied by the top teams and our scoring really dried up.

to stand up under pressure-match conditons you have to practice under pressure match conditions, surely?

We had no problems pressuring the ball carrier, our contested possessions and hard ball wins were in the top tier of the AFL, its the disposal that was the problem. Hopefully we can improve in that area.

[soupman]

We had no problems pressuring the ball carrier, our contested possessions and hard ball wins were in the top tier of the AFL, its the disposal that was the problem. Hopefully we can improve in that area.

Not sure if you are disagreeing with the quoted post or not but I believe he was saying that by practising pressuring the ball carrier we are also practicisng disposing the ball under pressure, so hopefully that aspect of our game that you mention as an issue does improve.

[azabob]

Brutal, brutal session today. The amount of contested footy, wrestling, and pressuring of the ball carrier was extreme. The focus on getting the players stronger and more competitive is there for all to see, McCartney was standing in the thick of it shout at players to keep their feet and not go to ground when they're tired.

A couple of the younger players are looking to have already starting bulking up, Tom Liberatore looks to have put on several kilos already, he was giving Sherman a hell of a time in the wrestling/contested ball drills. Pleasingling Howard was matched up against Boyd and held his own until fatigue really set in.

Clay Smith is a monster of a kid and was keeping up with the elite running group at the end. I expect him to be in contention for round one.

Thanks for the update.
How is Wallis going? From what you have seen how does his workrate on the training track compare to Liberatores?

[Greystache]

Thanks for the update.
How is Wallis going? From what you have seen how does his workrate on the training track compare to Liberatores?

I haven't noticed him to be honest, other than the hair he's not the type of player you'd really notice. He isn't in the elite running group, so it would appear Libba has gone past him in terms of fitness, but I've got no reason to think he would continue to be anything other than a highly committed trainer.

[bornadog]

Not sure if you are disagreeing with the quoted post or not but I believe he was saying that by practising pressuring the ball carrier we are also practicisng disposing the ball under pressure, so hopefully that aspect of our game that you mention as an issue does improve.

I am agreeing with the post, but I would be surprised if we hadn't practised the same previously. I just hope we are getting better at it.

[Greystache]

I am agreeing with the post, but I would be surprised if we hadn't practised the same previously. I just hope we are getting better at it.

Admittedly I didn't see every training session, but the lack of focus on this very issue was one of the reasons I was so disapointed in our preparation in 2011.

[Ovatheboarder]

Suffice to say many players have commented this is the hardest preseason they have done in years.
The emphasis on contested footy/weights/power can only be a good thing

[Cyberdoggie]

Suffice to say many players have commented this is the hardest preseason they have done in years.
The emphasis on contested footy/weights/power can only be a good thing

Isn't it the norm to say it's the hardest pre-season ever?

I guess if you say it's the hardest for a while, then questions get asked why the recent ones weren't as hard.

If you don't say it's as hard (never happens), then you will routinely get flogged for the rest of the pre-season.

[Ovatheboarder]

True, players routinely say This is the hardest yet, but let's just say if they are doing similar volumes of running/cross training to previous years but increased weights, especially legs, and increased contested situations then yes it IS the hardest.
Think you will see considerably bigger bodies come Round 1 and greater intent coming from those bodies

[Cyberdoggie]

True, players routinely say This is the hardest yet, but let's just say if they are doing similar volumes of running/cross training to previous years but increased weights, especially legs, and increased contested situations then yes it IS the hardest.
Think you will see considerably bigger bodies come Round 1 and greater intent coming from those bodies

Certainly hoping so, and i think that will be the case.

Perhaps we won't notice much of a change in the senior players but in particular i think Roughead, Cordy, Jones, Panos, Grant, Liberatore, Wallis, Dahlhaus, Skinner, Lake, Williams and Hooper need to and i would expect to see clear signs of physical development in their frames. Lake has been injured and lost weight and i can see already he looks much stronger in the arms again. If Williams is only going to be a negating key defender with little creativity and run then he needs to be able to match it physically with larger opponents, and i think his general and core strength isn't high enough.

Roughead Jones and Grant are the 3 players that clearly need to develop more. They have been in the system long enough and there should be no excuses if they don't look significantly different to the last game of footy.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I haven't noticed him to be honest, other than the hair he's not the type of player you'd really notice. He isn't in the elite running group, so it would appear Libba has gone past him in terms of fitness, but I've got no reason to think he would continue to be anything other than a highly committed trainer.

I was at training the other morning and Mitch was throwing his guts up.
A huge spew of gatorade. Got up and kept going.
So he's putting in.

[Ovatheboarder]

Skipper???????????

Wow what team are we talking about again.

[stefoid]

Skipper???????????

Wow what team are we talking about again.

Skinner.

[jeemak]

This is what has been lacking under Eade in my ignorant opinion. Under Eade, we developed a good hard attack on the footy to win the ball, but when pressured, our disposal dropped away, meaning we were essentially flat track bullies - knock off the lesser teams easy enough, but crumple under the pressure applied by the top teams and our scoring really dried up.

to stand up under pressure-match conditons you have to practice under pressure match conditions, surely?

Our scoring really dried up against the best teams throughout our prime, but which side was able to score freely in pressure games against us at the pointy end of 2008-2009 (exception to Hawthorn and Geelong in the qualifying finals of those seasons respectively - which was a mental issue anyway)?

In 2008 we weren't the most talented side in the competition, but we still restricted Geelong in a preliminary final. In 2009 we got massively butt slammed by the umpires which actually enabled St Kilda to kick a score. Sure we missed a few opportunities in a tight game, but our skill execution compared to St Kilda (without the help of the men in white or whatever the "F" they were wearing that night) was on par.

The "Flat Track Bullies" tag always irritated me throughout those years. Each of Hawthorn, Geelong and St Kilda were better than us for top end talent in each of them (especially when you consider the injuries we dealt with), and I think we did well to almost match them falling an inch short of playing in a GF in 2009. With the players we had, we accounted for ourselves very well.

Potentially there was some strategy and training areas that could have made a bit of a difference, but talent is key to executing under pressure for the most part. Eade wasn't a fool, he got a lot out of the players he had at his disposal and it would be foolish to suggest that if he had have trained them up differently leading in to the 2008-2010 season we would have performed better. Whether it be in disposing of the ball under pressure, zoning or any other area you can point a stick at.

At the moment the hallmark of the top sides seems to be pressure on the ball carrier and shutting down space well. Add a considered forward movement strategy on the back of turnovers and you're half way there, but you'll only ever get to half way if you aren't sublimely talented.

[stefoid]

Our record against the top teams over the last couple of year was consistantly poor. Citing a reason why we lost in one match here or another match there is just excuses.

OK, so just not good enough, but the question is: in what way? By succumbing to pressure from the opposition. Youve still got to be able to execute your game plan under pressure , and score, and we couldnt. Geelong, Hawks and Pies all managed to kick enough of a score under GF conditions to win.

The Saints, despite having the most defesnive gameplan of all time, did not manage to kick enough score themselves when the same level of pressure was directed at them.

Execution under pressure is key to winning the premiership.

[jeemak]

Agree that execution under pressure is key, but I think being able to do so is heavily dependant on talent - moreso than training.

[divvydan]

We've received permission to have Matt Jones (Labrador) train with us during the preseason. 188cm, 81kg. 23yo midfielder. Played 16 games for Labrador in the NEAFL in 2011, in the best 7 times.

[stefoid]

We've received permission to have Matt Jones (Labrador) train with us during the preseason. 188cm, 81kg. 23yo midfielder. Played 16 games for Labrador in the NEAFL in 2011, in the best 7 times.

From Labrador to Bulldog!

[EasternWest]

We've received permission to have Matt Jones (Labrador) train with us during the preseason. 188cm, 81kg. 23yo midfielder. Played 16 games for Labrador in the NEAFL in 2011, in the best 7 times.

It's about bloody time they noticed me too!

[Pickenitup]

Does anyone know what time we Train tomorrow?

[divvydan]

Permission to train list updated with the WB receiving permission to have Jordan Jones (ex-wce) train with us.

Listed on WCE site as 189cm, 90kg he is a midsized defender who only played 2 matches with WCE in three seasons, 21 years old.

Has played 47 WAFL games with Peel Thunder during his time at WCE, had 70 tackles and over 19 disp/game in 19 games this year with them, which suggests he might have been used differently in 2011.

[LostDoggy]

Mjp might know something about him.

[Ghost Dog]

Permission to train list updated with the WB receiving permission to have Jordan Jones (ex-wce) train with us.

Listed on WCE site as 189cm, 90kg he is a midsized defender who only played 2 matches with WCE in three seasons, 21 years old.

Has played 47 WAFL games with Peel Thunder during his time at WCE, had 70 tackles and over 19 disp/game in 19 games this year with them, which suggests he might have been used differently in 2011.

Jordan..... alert alert

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I played against Jordan Jones for a few years.

Do not want. He's slow, and the only reason he got drafted was because he matured physically by the age of 16 or so.

Once others caught up, and he was asked to play against quality big men - he was ordinary.

[azabob]

For the first part of the pre-season it appears we are concentrating on the game plan and the attack on the ball / man, which has to be done.

Is this being done at the expense of getting kilometres into the legs?

Will this have an adverse effect on the guys in running games out, and especially since we are going to play an aggressive physical brand of footy?

[LostDoggy]

For the first part of the pre-season it appears we are concentrating on the game plan and the attack on the ball / man, which has to be done.

Is this being done at the expense of getting kilometres into the legs?

Will this have an adverse effect on the guys in running games out, and especially since we are going to play an aggressive physical brand of footy?

Understand your concern but I'd like to think there's enough paid brains at the club to know what they're doing. Also, sounds like most of the boys have kept pretty fit of their own accord during the break.

[bulldogsman]

For the first part of the pre-season it appears we are concentrating on the game plan and the attack on the ball / man, which has to be done.

Is this being done at the expense of getting kilometres into the legs?

Will this have an adverse effect on the guys in running games out, and especially since we are going to play an aggressive physical brand of footy?

Perhaps we have been concentrating on the running side of things too much. Hall and Aker have both mentioned the dogs do a lot of running compared to their previous clubs.

Personally I'm glad they have brought the balls out earlier then in previous years, our skills level has declined quite a bit in the last 2 years.

[AndrewP6]

Perhaps we have been concentrating on the running side of things too much. Hall and Aker have both mentioned the dogs do a lot of running compared to their previous clubs.

Well the head of physical conditioning is a triathlon coach! ;)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Perhaps we have been concentrating on the running side of things too much. Hall and Aker have both mentioned the dogs do a lot of running compared to their previous clubs.

Personally I'm glad they have brought the balls out earlier then in previous years, our skills level has declined quite a bit in the last 2 years.

This.

Our ball has been terrible even from a few of our skilled players.

[jazzadogs]

For the first part of the pre-season it appears we are concentrating on the game plan and the attack on the ball / man, which has to be done.

Is this being done at the expense of getting kilometres into the legs?

Will this have an adverse effect on the guys in running games out, and especially since we are going to play an aggressive physical brand of footy?
It depends on how we are teaching the game plan etc. From what I saw at training, and from what I've read, the key to everything we've been doing is intensity. If you're doing skill work at a high enough intensity, then it will also lead to improvements in endurance. And as for the man-on-man, attacking the ball drills, they can be the most physically draining of all when done right.

I would prefer the team to be doing 30min of intense skills work/match practice than 30min of running. As much as we nees the team to be athletically capable of running out games, improving this in conjunction with improving our skills will be much more beneficial.

On top of all that, the players will enjoy themselves more and be better off mentally, which should not be understated.

[Greystache]

It depends on how we are teaching the game plan etc. From what I saw at training, and from what I've read, the key to everything we've been doing is intensity. If you're doing skill work at a high enough intensity, then it will also lead to improvements in endurance. And as for the man-on-man, attacking the ball drills, they can be the most physically draining of all when done right.

Agreed. There was a drill they were doing at training 2 weeks ago where a pair of players wrestled on the ground for a minute, then had a ball thrown to them and they had to try and win a one one one contest. They'd get a rest while two more pairs went, then they were on again. This went on for 20 minutes and is the most brutal training drill I've ever seen, even the most senior players looked pretty distressed by the end, yet they wouldn't have run more the 100 metres in total.

[Maddog37]

Match fitness is all important. I am loving reading about all of this competitive work. It is like the old favourite of a coach having full on competitive training the week after a team has performed poorly except we are doing it for a whole preseason.

[immortalmike]

Agreed. There was a drill they were doing at training 2 weeks ago where a pair of players wrestled on the ground for a minute, then had a ball thrown to them and they had to try and win a one one one contest. They'd get a rest while two more pairs went, then they were on again. This went on for 20 minutes and is the most brutal training drill I've ever seen, even the most senior players looked pretty distressed by the end, yet they wouldn't have run more the 100 metres in total.

That sounds very gruelling, no wonder some players have had to have time off due to soreness. I hope they're not being pushed too hard physically though, the last thing we need is pre-season injuries.

[LostDoggy]

That sounds very gruelling, no wonder some players have had to have time off due to soreness. I hope they're not being pushed too hard physically though, the last thing we need is pre-season injuries.

Whilst I don't want to see them injured, of course, I think a little bit of swim or sink can only be a good thing, especially with us not expecting to make finals next year (despite what Boydy reckons ;))

[immortalmike]

Whilst I don't want to see them injured, of course, I think a little bit of swim or sink can only be a good thing, especially with us not expecting to make finals next year (despite what Boydy reckons ;))

I honestly expect to make finals next year. And I think it's bad for teams to fall into the trap of rebuilding and having low expectations lest they end up like Melbourne and Richmond who have seemingly been rebuilding for a decade or more. I'd much rather go the Sydney or Geelong approach of trying to do your best every year whilst turning over your list.

[LostDoggy]

I honestly expect to make finals next year. And I think it's bad for teams to fall into the trap of rebuilding and having low expectations lest they end up like Melbourne and Richmond who have seemingly been rebuilding for a decade or more. I'd much rather go the Sydney or Geelong approach of trying to do your best every year whilst turning over your list.

Yeah, I hope we get there, of course I do, and I think Boyd was doing the right thing and is showing the right attitude in signalling our “intention” to make finals, but realistically, I'm not going to tear up the membership card if we don't, and if there's a time to flog the shit out of the boys that time is now.

[Cyberdoggie]

Agreed. There was a drill they were doing at training 2 weeks ago where a pair of players wrestled on the ground for a minute, then had a ball thrown to them and they had to try and win a one one one contest. They'd get a rest while two more pairs went, then they were on again. This went on for 20 minutes and is the most brutal training drill I've ever seen, even the most senior players looked pretty distressed by the end, yet they wouldn't have run more the 100 metres in total.

A good point.

If anyone has ever watched UFC (i'm guessing you have), then you can see how quickly a fighter can tire in such a short amount of time. You sit there thinking why don't they just do something, but they are too fatigued or need to recover to do so.


I think the extra work on game plan and contested work is necessary over running as Macca needs to instill his gameplan in the players minds. This is more important than them running out games as if they can't follow his directions then the wheels will fall off much sooner than us fading in the last quarter.

I would expect to see a lot of match simulation stuff come january/feb this pre-season, and it should be an interesting intra club, with spots available, a fresh new coach and everyone wanting to impress.

[jeemak]

Are they actually doing less running, or are they doing the same amount of running plus the drills with an extra emphasis on physical work and pressure?

That would explain the comments surrounding the extra loading, and some of the soreness.

With the talent at our disposal I think we should be aiming for finals. We were insipid for a number of reasons last year, and that insipidness was coupled with injury to key players. If we pull our fingers out of our backsides as far as attitude is concerned, then we should be competitive enough to make finals with a decent run with player fitness.

[Ghost Dog]

Are they actually doing less running, or are they doing the same amount of running plus the drills with an extra emphasis on physical work and pressure?

That would explain the comments surrounding the extra loading, and some of the soreness.

With the talent at our disposal I think we should be aiming for finals. We were insipid for a number of reasons last year, and that insipidness was coupled with injury to key players. If we pull our fingers out of our backsides as far as attitude is concerned, then we should be competitive enough to make finals with a decent run with player fitness.

People are getting excited about the new guys. But I cant wait to see how a young Liberatore or a Tutt are going to look after Bruiser McCartney has transformed them into gym monsters.

[Dry Rot]

I honestly expect to make finals next year. And I think it's bad for teams to fall into the trap of rebuilding and having low expectations lest they end up like Melbourne and Richmond who have seemingly been rebuilding for a decade or more. I'd much rather go the Sydney or Geelong approach of trying to do your best every year whilst turning over your list.

Having a couple of crap years and rebuilding didn't hurt the Pies or the Hawks, did it?

The Cats had/have the best recruitment guy and we got stuffed by Clayton. And IMO it will be long time before another Swans flag if they don't bottom and rebuild.

[immortalmike]

Having a couple of crap years and rebuilding didn't hurt the Pies or the Hawks, did it?

The Cats had/have the best recruitment guy and we got stuffed by Clayton. And IMO it will be long time before another Swans flag if they don't bottom and rebuild.

It's a fair point. I disagree on your assessment of the Swans but that's something better left to hindsight. Historically though I feel we have more in common with Richmond and Melbourne than Hawthorn and Collingwood, in that we can't really absorb a full rebuild (financially and as a supporter base) and we don't really have the resources to take advantage of one in the same way the Pies did. As for the Hawks, most of their good players (with the notable exceptions of Buddy and Roughead) were picked outside of their bottoming out period or were trades. I also generally have problems with supporters cheering on failure even if it's for what they perceive to be the greater good.


Also BAS mate, totally understand what you mean in your last post. I also won't be tearing my membership up if we fail to reach expectations.

[Ghost Dog]

It's a fair point. I disagree on your assessment of the Swans but that's something better left to hindsight. Historically though I feel we have more in common with Richmond and Melbourne ( !!!!!) than Hawthorn and Collingwood, in that we can't really absorb a full rebuild (financially and as a supporter base) and we don't really have the resources to take advantage of one in the same way the Pies did. As for the Hawks, most of their good players (with the notable exceptions of Buddy and Roughead) were picked outside of their bottoming out period or were trades. I also generally have problems with supporters cheering on failure even if it's for what they perceive to be the greater good.


Also BAS mate, totally understand what you mean in your last post. I also won't be tearing my membership up if we fail to reach expectations.

Both Melbourne and Richmond have had the ability to rebuild but for some reason, have stuffed up their picks and the back end of things at board level there have always been issues.
I suspect they have much deeper pockets than they let on.

[the banker]

I honestly expect to make finals next year. And I think it's bad for teams to fall into the trap of rebuilding and having low expectations lest they end up like Melbourne and Richmond who have seemingly been rebuilding for a decade or more. I'd much rather go the Sydney or Geelong approach of trying to do your best every year whilst turning over your list.

Agree

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I went down to training today, and whilst there's not much to report on, I have to echo the thoughts of previous posts. There's so much competitive work being done. A lot of match simulation, forcing players to make quick decisions with the ball in hand.

DJ did pretty well and used his pace, Panos found space and converted chances, Redpath is enormous, Roughead looks very good (killed Cordy in ruck contests) and Zeph also moved well (good defensive efforts).

It was pleasing to see Bubba spend a lot of time with Jones, Grant, Zeph and Dahl on their goal kicking. Not just one or two shots -- but one after the other for a good 10-15 minutes. Plenty of instruction and feedback.

[Pedro Sanchez]

I went down to training today, and whilst there's not much to report on, I have to echo the thoughts of previous posts. There's so much competitive work being done. A lot of match simulation, forcing players to make quick decisions with the ball in hand.

DJ did pretty well and used his pace, Panos found space and converted chances, Redpath is enormous, Roughead looks very good (killed Cordy in ruck contests) and Zeph also moved well (good defensive efforts).

It was pleasing to see Bubba spend a lot of time with Jones, Grant, Zeph and Dahl on their goal kicking. Not just one or two shots -- but one after the other for a good 10-15 minutes. Plenty of instruction and feedback.

Thanks for the update... Glad to hear Redpath is a big unit - hopefully he can get / stay fit and have an impact... Did you notice Tory Dickson at all? I wonder how he's shaping up given he was quite a wildcard selection.

Cheers again - Al Pedro

[Bulldog Revolution]

And IMO it will be long time before another Swans flag if they don't bottom and rebuild.

In a lot of sports the worst spot you can be in is mid-table and not playing players with scope for further improvement.

But the AFL draft is not quite as cut and dry as other sports where there are less guys on the table, but that said you can get lucky and bottom out when there is a Judd/Riewoldt available, but then if you pick well enough there are heaps of good/gun players that get throughout to rookie drafts every year.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Thanks for the update... Glad to hear Redpath is a big unit - hopefully he can get / stay fit and have an impact... Did you notice Tory Dickson at all? I wonder how he's shaping up given he was quite a wildcard selection.

Cheers again - Al Pedro

Redpath moves well and kicks the ball nicely, but he didn't participate in the match simulation so it'll be interesting to watch him play when given an opportunity.

I didn't notice Dickson during the match simulation, but he has neat skills from what I observed. I can't offer much else though based on today -- sorry.

Moles was moving well. I still think he can be a player.

[Go_Dogs]

Thanks for the update TBB, much appreciated.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Can't wait for the season to begin. It will be interesting to see how the change of coach and a different pre-season routine plays out.

[Desipura]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, there is an intra club scheduled for this Friday at 9.30am at the Whitten Oval of course.

[Rocco Jones]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, there is an intra club scheduled for this Friday at 9.30am at the Whitten Oval of course.

Can anyone confirm this? (I do trust you Desi).

[Desipura]

Can anyone confirm this? (I do trust you Desi).
I can confirm it. If I could not, I would have started the sentence with "I believe" ;)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'll probably get down to have a look. Thanks Desi.

[Greystache]

I should be able to get there too. I'll bring the camera since I won't be dog minding this week.

[Rocco Jones]

Sorry for semi-doubting you Desi!

I'm in for the intra club. Being a teacher is ever so rewarding.

[Greystache]

Sorry for semi-doubting you Desi!

I'm in for the intra club. Being a teacher is ever so rewarding.

You going to make it this time, or will you be rules out with a late night related hangover again? :D

[Rocco Jones]

You going to make it this time, or will you be rules out with a late night related hangover again? :D

Not sure which instance you're talking about (I guess that proves your point wonderfully!). Was it a Willi game?

I'm planning to spend a bit of time in the motherland. Dinner at Station tomorrow night, intra-club Friday morning before going off for a cheap hair cut and tax return thanks to my Vietnamese friends. It's always sunny in Footscray.

[Greystache]

Not sure which instance you're talking about (I guess that proves your point wonderfully!). Was it a Willi game?

I'm planning to spend a bit of time in the motherland. Dinner at Station tomorrow night, intra-club Friday morning before going off for a cheap hair cut and tax return thanks to my Vietnamese friends. It's always sunny in Footscray.

Yeah the Willi vs North Ballarat final, I'd hatched a brilliant scheme to rig TRJWNSS and you were a no show. Of course any logical approach taken to any aspect of the sweep would automatically have me disqualified so you may have in fact done me a service.

[Rocco Jones]

Yeah the Willi vs North Ballarat final, I'd hatched a brilliant scheme to rig TRJWNSS and you were a no show. Of course any logical approach taken to any aspect of the sweep would automatically have me disqualified so you may have in fact done me a service.

Haha. Probably disqualified then re-entered with some random player drawn.

[LostDoggy]

I can confirm it. If I could not, I would have started the sentence with "I believe" ;)

:)
I believe there was no official or even unofficial intra club today.

[LostDoggy]

Just a quick report from today.
Took me 30min to put names to faces. Squad looks a lot taller than previous years.
Lake ran laps, Cooney did some training by himself.
Didn't see hopper or Morris.
Not sure who was on crutches behind the goal.
Williams and murph had a kick to kick.

Did some forward line drills with jones, grant, redpath, panos and skinner. Defenders were talia, markovic, mulligan, hargrave and hill.

[Desipura]

Just a quick report from today.
Took me 30min to put names to faces. Squad looks a lot taller than previous years.
Lake ran laps, Cooney did some training by himself.
Didn't see hopper or Morris.
Not sure who was on crutches behind the goal.
Williams and murph had a kick to kick.

Did some forward line drills with jones, grant, redpath, panos and skinner. Defenders were talia, markovic, mulligan, hargrave and hill.
Correct me if I am wrong, the quarters only went for 12.5 minutes apparently? Half the game spent figuring out who was who. :)

[Pickenitup]

I was at Training Today and there was No Intra club Today.
I was really impresses with McCartney gee can he talk always giving instructions and not shy to give
players and the other coaches a bake!

[Desipura]

I was at Training Today and there was No Intra club Today.I was really impresses with McCartney gee can he talk always giving instructions and not shy to give
players and the other coaches a bake!
So there was no match simulation today?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It was just another training session. No intra club.

Pretty grueling session though. They were worked over fairly hard from both a physical and mental standpoint. As per usual, there was a lot of match simulation. Some of it was full ground, some of it was half ground, some of it was in extremely close quarters. Additionally, there was a lot of contested work being done too. Heaps of emphasis on tackling/wrestling, then giving repeated efforts. The players were stuffed, but kept digging in. It was pretty good to see. There's no doubt our training is far more aggressive than it has been in previous seasons. Players are giving and taking hits constantly, are being forced to make quick decisions with the ball by both foot and hand in various drills and are having a lot instruction from the coaches.

- Hargrave looked pretty good. In a few of the match simulation drills, he picked off passes and read the play really well. Seemed to be moving well, although I don't think he did the full session. Nice to see him out there though.

- Gilbee is still the best kick at the club. I don't think I saw him miss a target at all. They still looked to get the ball in his hands often, so maybe he's got a bit left in the tank. Let's hope so.

- Dahl is in super nick. He's extremely quick and agile, but most importantly, knows where to run. He wins so much of the ball because he reads the play. His hands are quick and his decision making is very good. Rarely missed a target by foot too. He's going to be a good player, but we already knew that.

- Moles is in good condition, ditto Veszpremi. Both look fit and run the lines well. Moles is a smooth mover and covers territory quickly. Stands up in tackles and does use the ball nicely. I said it last week, and I'll say it again. He can be a good player.

- Lot of the play was directed through Zeph, who looks much better than he did last season. However, he still has a long way to go. The effort is there, especially in winning his own ball and applying defensive pressure. He does take too long to make decisions with the ball in hand, and doesn't know where to lead. Boyd. Minson and the coaches were supportive of him, and are always barking instruction to keep working hard and moving around.

- Panos and Jones both look fit and strong. Both were running pretty well too. Neither featured heavily in the match simulation, but they are moving well.

- Tom Hill has a great pair of hands but his decision making was ordinary. Turned it over a few times, mainly due to kicking across the goal/ground. He's not slow and moves well for a big guy -- interesting year ahead for him.

- Howard still leaves me unconvinced. He just doesn't seem to get involved much, and when he does, he fumbles the ball or his passes drop short. His disposal by foot is drastically overrated at this stage, and Tutt IMO, is a far better user of the ball.

- Johanisson (sp?) has put on some good size and looks a lot fitter. He used the ball well, although I would like to see him back himself a little more. Took the safe option too often. There's something to work with here.

- I can't say I've seen Redpath's physical presence yet, but he kicks the ball very well. Low, hard, flat, straight.

- Tory Dickson is a good mover. He doesn't look quick, and he's not -- but he's got a good football brain and makes good decisions. He seems to have this uncanny ability to turn around and avoid being tackled. Did it a few times. I'm reluctant to say 'turn of speed', as it's more of a 'turn of avoidance'.

- Adam Cooney had an intense session by himself. He started off with a limp and really didn't look too good. However, by the end of it -- he was running more freely. He was pretty buggered too. Lots of short sprint/repeated effort type stuff. My expectations aren't high of Coons, but here's hoping his body is OK.

Overall, the squad is looking good. Training is interesting to watch, and I am positive we'll see a better side this year. Whether that means we'll make finals, I don't know. But we do look strong and committed, which is all you can ask for at this stage of the year. Once the intra club and NAB cup matches begin, then we'll see who has the ability to step it up in a game sense.

[The Coon Dog]

Thanks TBB, fantastic to read that write up, much appreciated.

[Maddog37]

Agreed. Very nice work TBB.

Helps us country folk stay informed outside of generic newspaper rubbish.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Rohan Smith said 1st Intra-club match will be 1st week of Feb (3rd I think?)

[stefoid]

- Tory Dickson is a good mover. He doesn't look quick, and he's not -- but he's got a good football brain and makes good decisions. He seems to have this uncanny ability to turn around and avoid being tackled. Did it a few times. I'm reluctant to say 'turn of speed', as it's more of a 'turn of avoidance'.


'Evasive' is the word youre looking for - look under 'robert murphy' in the dictionary. :)

thanks for the report.

[Raw Toast]

'Evasive' is the word youre looking for - look under 'robert murphy' in the dictionary. :)

thanks for the report.

True, but from the glance I had this morning, Dickson does it somewhere in between the elegant twirls of Murphy and the space-clearing shimmies of a Scott West.

Other brief notes from me:

Shaggy looked v good, Minson looked fit and strong, Vezpremi was moving well, the wrestling drill is fun to watch (and young Clay Smith looks to have good core strength already), Johannisen did some nice things, Lin Jong is a decent size, and from the bits I saw, Cooney was moving pretty nicely.

[KT31]

Thank you for the report TBB.
And to all others who file reports, it great to be able to keep in touch and listen to the progress.

[chef]

Thanks TBB.

[Redemption97]

I too went to training today. Great wrap up by The Bulldogs Bite. Here are a few of my observations...

- It was good to see Cooney moving around and Lake doing some running and kicking. Cooney especially was doing a lot of touch work and kicking with Bubba.

- Skinner showed some good hands on some leads in the drills but his finishing skills from set shots needs to be improved. He’s impressive though when the balls in front of him with that reach. They were looking to go to him too but I agree he needs to improve his positioning as he leads to some strange spots

- Redpath as mentioned by many is a big unit and has cult figure potential… moves well and looks great by foot with his passing and marked and goaled in one of the forward line drills.

- Pop Dahl in your dream team. He was busy in the drills and looks like he’ll build on last seasons efforts.

- Hargrave looked very good in the drills picking off plenty of long kicks into the forward line moving freely and out positioning his opponent. I noticed that him and Ayce finished off with just running when the others got into the physical stuff.

- Towards the end of the training session I really enjoyed watching the guys going at it in a body on body drill where they wrestle each other and take each other to ground then need to get up quickly for a contested pick up and bump. One pair that sticks in my mind is when Clay Smith and Wallis were paired up against each other. I thought Clay held his own and they were really going at it. There will be some healthy competition amongst those young midfielders this year.

- Physically I thought Tutt and Jones are looking a lot fitter /stronger. DJ too is looking really fit, was front running in the drills and looks comfortable with the ball. He might surprise this season.

- It was a very intense session, very physical, lots or contested work with repeat sprints…Vesz was working hard but by the end was struggling in the repeat sprints at the back of the pack. You could see he was working hard to get through, you can’t question the effort. He’s looking leaner but still needs to improve his endurance.

- Of the rookies and new kids… Talia looked solid in the defensive drills and Lin physically was matching it with the big boys and skills were ok, looks like a bit to work with.

- Fletcher Roberts is light on but was having a go. He’ll need a lot of time in the gym.

- Clay Smith has a real go, matching the big boys physically and although training is not always a true test his field kicking looked ok to me. Which I’ve heard was a knock on him.

- The guy on crutches looked to me like Alex Greenwood, he also had a moon boot on his left foot.

Overall my impressions were mostly that I was glad I was on the side of the fence that I was on, sipping on my latte! Bmac works them hard and was loving the hard stuff. You could hear him laughing and getting into the boys in the contested drills. Certainly the commitment was there and I don’t know how we’ll go this season but we’ll certainly make the better sides earn their wins on what I’m seeing. We’ll win a few clearances and contests if they keep training like that.

[The Coon Dog]

Thanks for that R97, always nice for us that are at work & consequently can't attend training to know what's going on.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Good write up R97.

Agree with you on Zeph -- he really does lead to bad spots. He'll lead to a deep forward pocket (no man's land), and then just stand there. This is where the coaches (and leaders) are constantly telling him to move. When he did, he usually ended up with the ball. His goal kicking needs a lot of work, but it's got better -- even though he's still missing. I saw him absolutely spray some shots last year. The technique is better.

Lin is very impressive from an athletic perspective, isn't he? He moves really well. His kicking was OK -- not good, but far from "unfixable". Will be interesting to see if he can find the ball at VFL level.

I agree that DJ did well. He used his pace and generally made good decisions. Tried to take Griff on, got pressured and kicked it out on the full but if he's going to make it, he needs to use his pace.

I haven't seen much of Clay or Talia yet -- I'll try focus on them next time.

[Go_Dogs]

Great work on the reports, much appreciated.

[Redemption97]

Thanks, it was a rare RDO for me so it was a nice way to start my day. I like you Coon Dog appreciate the training reports so its nice to pay one back.

[Cyberdoggie]

True, but from the glance I had this morning, Dickson does it somewhere in between the elegant twirls of Murphy and the space-clearing shimmies of a Scott West.


I've only seen his tube highlights but from that vision i think i know exactly what you mean. He looks to turn them inside out and run into goals, does it well so you would think he has some pace at least.

[the banker]

Greatly appreciate the reports, smelt the liniment and heard the body clashes and shouts. Felt like season has started with these.

All seem to have embraced the new story. Lock it in.

[jeemak]

Outstanding reports TBB and R97. Makes the pre-season bearable, so thanks for posting!

[AndrewP6]

- Redpath as mentioned by many is a big unit and has colt figure potential…


He could be a horse? :)

Thanks for the report, R97!

[Dancin' Douggy]

TBB. You know, this is gold. and this why people like me/us love woof. Thank you so very much for your thoughtful assessment of the session.

[w3design]

Thankyou everyone for the writeups.

[Greystache]

I went to training yesterday too. TBB has done a good write up, so here are some photos

Clay Smith
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/ClaySmith.jpg

Dahlhaus
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Dahlhaus.jpg

Grant
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Grant.jpg

Howard
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Howard.jpg

Jong
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Jong.jpg

Libba
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Libba-1.jpg

Talia
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Talia2.jpg

[Greystache]

Roberts
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Roberts.jpg

Redpath
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Redpath.jpg

Panos
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Panos.jpg

Markovic
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Markovic.jpg

Wallis
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Wallis.jpg

Tutt
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z455/Greystache/Tutt.jpg

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Nice snaps Stache.

You can really see the size we've put on IMO. Not too many skinny lads out there anymore.

[Hotdog60]

Wallis has got some guns, Gym work is working well

[ledge]

What worries me about bulking up is it was a huge thing in the 80s but then knee recos became a problem, too much weight on, knees give way when turning. I hope that Macca is aware of this.
eg Templeton.

[Mantis]

You can really see the size we've put on IMO. Not too many skinny lads out there anymore.

Through the years I don't think we have been under-sized in the weight division.

It was just that we played so many 1st & 2nd year players last year that it was noticeable, but it always takes 2 or 3 pre-seasons for these guys to fill out and mature which is what we are seeing now.

[bulldogsman]

Thanks for the reports and snaps.

How's Roughead coming along?

[jazzadogs]

Thanks for the reports and the photos...who is at the back in the Panos photo?

[Greystache]

Thanks for the reports and snaps.

How's Roughead coming along?

He certainly looks to have put on some size. He was monstering Cordy in the match simulations, but he needs to improve his kicking. He looks to be reaping the benefits of an uninterrupted preseason.

[Greystache]

Thanks for the reports and the photos...who is at the back in the Panos photo?

Tory Dickson

[w3design]

Thanks for the reports and the photos...who is at the back in the Panos photo?


Looks like Tory Dickson.

edit: didn't see Greystache's reply.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Through the years I don't think we have been under-sized in the weight division.

It was just that we played so many 1st & 2nd year players last year that it was noticeable, but it always takes 2 or 3 pre-seasons for these guys to fill out and mature which is what we are seeing now.

Definitely.

It's just nice to see Roughead, Panos, Jones, Tutt and co. with some good size to their frames now.

[Remi Moses]

Great job all concerned.
Can't get over how big our draftees are!
Smith and Tallia for 18 y/olds are huge.

[Dry Rot]

Tory Dickson

Looks like a big solid unit for his height.

[AndrewP6]

What worries me about bulking up is it was a huge thing in the 80s but then knee recos became a problem, too much weight on, knees give way when turning. I hope that Macca is aware of this.
eg Templeton.

I'm pretty sure he/they have done their research!

[w3design]

I'm pretty sure he/they have done their research!

Yes. But it is our job as hardcore fans to assume they might have overlooked it.

[AndrewP6]

Yes. But it is our job as hardcore fans to assume they might have overlooked it.

Hahaha.... good call!

[ledge]

Thanks for the back up Gus ;)

[stefoid]

What worries me about bulking up is it was a huge thing in the 80s but then knee recos became a problem, too much weight on, knees give way when turning. I hope that Macca is aware of this.
eg Templeton.

Not just size, but speed and athleticism of the game has improved out of sight as well.

[stefoid]

Definitely.

It's just nice to see Roughead, Panos, Jones, Tutt and co. with some good size to their frames now.

Tutt has filled out a lot - he is turning out to be a suprise packet.

[Mantis]

Tutt has filled out a lot - he is turning out to be a suprise packet.

In what way is he a surprise packet?

[Bulldog Revolution]

In what way is he a surprise packet?

He's been swinging on the pendulum

Under-rated - shouldn't have been drafted, not dominating VFL

Over-rated - great debut and now appears to be making progress

The only way for his stock is down from here

[stefoid]

In what way is he a surprise packet?

Flew under the radar for me. Also assumed he was going to stay a skinny weed for a while - maybe its the baby face.

[MrMahatma]

Loving the updates!!

[The Coon Dog]

From Twitter:

Jay Clark @ClarkyHeraldSun

Clay Smith turning heads at the kennel. Super-hard #dogs mid on track for an early-season debut. Get him on your SuperCoach radar.

[w3design]

I'm over the whole SC/DT thing but that still makes me smile.

I'm genuinely sick of talking footy with mates and talking about the Dogs playing hard footy this year and being shot down that we are "soft frontrunners".

Can't wait to see whether we can turn some heads.

[Greystache]

One pleasing thing about Clay Smith is his endurance, from the gut running sessions I've seen at training he is already elite. It's really only the top veterans like Boyd, Cross, and Gia that can out run him

[Mantis]

I'm genuinely sick of talking footy with mates and talking about the Dogs playing hard footy this year and being shot down that we are "soft frontrunners".

Can't wait to see whether we can turn some heads.

Haven't your mates watched us since 2004?

[w3design]

They still see us as the team that falls apart when it gets tough and physical in finals.

[LostDoggy]

They still see us as the team that falls apart when it gets tough and physical in finals.

That is utter rubbish and you should tell your so-called mates so.

Ask them to look at the 2009 preliminary final in particular and then say that the team falls apart when it gets tough and physical in finals.

it's one thing to be beaten and we have to cop that.

But we don't have to cop that we fell away because it got tough

[the banker]

That is utter rubbish and you should tell your so-called mates so.

Ask them to look at the 2009 preliminary final in particular and then say that the team falls apart when it gets tough and physical in finals.

it's one thing to be beaten and we have to cop that.

But we don't have to cop that we fell away because it got tough

Spot on.

[EasternWest]

That is utter rubbish and you should tell your so-called mates so.

Ask them to look at the 2009 preliminary final in particular and then say that the team falls apart when it gets tough and physical in finals.

it's one thing to be beaten and we have to cop that.

But we don't have to cop that we fell away because it got tough


Spot on.

I dunno. We were terrific that game.

But we were very poor against Geelong (though we didn't lose by much, it felt like an ordinary performance) and it took a while to get going against the Lions.

And that's one series.

In 06 against the Pies it could have gone either way at half time. Then we got pummeled at WC.
In 08 Hawthorn destroyed us and we then beat up on a poor Sydney before being easily beaten again by Geelong.
In 2010 we got smashed by Collingwood, just got over Sydney and then got overrun by the Saints.

I'm not saying I necessarily subscribe to the theory that we still fold in finals, but I am saying it's easy to see why outsiders might think that. Just looking at that list of finals, we were superb in the 09 Prelim, good in the 06 Elimination and poor for the rest.

So that's 8 out of 10 poor performances in recent times.

[DragzLS1]

I dunno. We were terrific that game.

But we were very poor against Geelong (though we didn't lose by much, it felt like an ordinary performance) and it took a while to get going against the Lions.

And that's one series.

In 06 against the Pies it could have gone either way at half time. Then we got pummeled at WC.
In 08 Hawthorn destroyed us and we then beat up on a poor Sydney before being easily beaten again by Geelong.
In 2010 we got smashed by Collingwood, just got over Sydney and then got overrun by the Saints.

I'm not saying I necessarily subscribe to the theory that we still fold in finals, but I am saying it's easy to see why outsiders might think that. Just looking at that list of finals, we were superb in the 09 Prelim, good in the 06 Elimination and poor for the rest.

So that's 8 out of 10 poor performances in recent times.

Soon to change brother ;) let them think and say what ever they like tell them to get over it and watch out for us in the coming years. Karma's a bitch and it will be ever soo sweeter if we beat your mates team in a finals series..

[LostDoggy]

I dunno. We were terrific that game.

But we were very poor against Geelong (though we didn't lose by much, it felt like an ordinary performance) and it took a while to get going against the Lions.

And that's one series.

In 06 against the Pies it could have gone either way at half time. Then we got pummeled at WC.
In 08 Hawthorn destroyed us and we then beat up on a poor Sydney before being easily beaten again by Geelong.
In 2010 we got smashed by Collingwood, just got over Sydney and then got overrun by the Saints.

I'm not saying I necessarily subscribe to the theory that we still fold in finals, but I am saying it's easy to see why outsiders might think that. Just looking at that list of finals, we were superb in the 09 Prelim, good in the 06 Elimination and poor for the rest.

So that's 8 out of 10 poor performances in recent times.
Nice Creative accounting?
We won 4/5 finals, robbed in a prelim, beaten by much better side in a few and undermanned in some others. How is that 8 poor performances out of 10?

[EasternWest]

Nice Creative accounting?
We won 4/5 finals, robbed in a prelim, beaten by much better side in a few and undermanned in some others. How is that 8 poor performances out of 10?

That's your take.

Mine is different. You'll need to accept that, like I accept yours. I'm not getting into yet another argument with you.

[Sedat]

In 08 Hawthorn destroyed us and we then beat up on a poor Sydney before being easily beaten again by Geelong.
Can't agree that we were easily beaten in the 2008 PF. But for several inexcusable misses in front of goal when we were dominating in the 3rd and 4th qtrs, we would have been in front of the Cats approaching time-on in the last qtr. As it was we were only a couple of goals down 20 minutes in when Rooke got away with mugging Johnno and kicked the sealer - at that stage we we still coming hard and were in it up to our eyeballs.

We played hard enough from week 2 onwards in September but our biggest problem has been the transition from H&A intensity to first week of finals. Our first finals from 08-10 were all incredibly disappointing from an intensity perspective and it put us behind the 8-ball thereafter in each finals campaign. That says to me it is a mental issue rather than a physical/hardness issue.

[EasternWest]

Can't agree that we were easily beaten in the 2008 PF. But for several inexcusable misses in front of goal when we were dominating in the 3rd and 4th qtrs, we would have been in front of the Cats approaching time-on in the last qtr. As it was we were only a couple of goals down 20 minutes in when Rooke got away with mugging Johnno and kicked the sealer - at that stage we we still coming hard and were in it up to our eyeballs.

We played hard enough from week 2 onwards in September but our biggest problem has been the transition from H&A intensity to first week of finals. Our first finals from 08-10 were all incredibly disappointing from an intensity perspective and it put us behind the 8-ball thereafter in each finals campaign. That says to me it is a mental issue rather than a physical/hardness issue.

Actually thanks for pointing that out. That did slip my mind. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how well we were performing because I do remember feeling underwhelmed even though we were closer than I remembered. Cheers Sedat.

[Greystache]

We played hard enough from week 2 onwards in September but our biggest problem has been the transition from H&A intensity to first week of finals. Our first finals from 08-10 were all incredibly disappointing from an intensity perspective and it put us behind the 8-ball thereafter in each finals campaign. That says to me it is a mental issue rather than a physical/hardness issue.

I agree with your assessment Sedat, but I suppose it all comes down to interpretation. Many people don't differentiate between being physically soft or mentally soft, they label it all under the umbrella of soft.

[EasternWest]

I agree with your assessment Sedat, but I suppose it all comes down to interpretation. Many people don't differentiate between being physically soft or mentally soft, they label it all under the umbrella of soft.

Not sure if you're referring to me. If you are my original post says I don't necessarily buy into it, but I can understand how outsiders see it that way. Saying poor was probably a poor choice of words on my account though. Unsuccessful? Mediocre? (ok, that one is a joke).

[Greystache]

To get the thread back on track, I went to training this morning, not much of a session.

Nothing to report really other than Morris was getting involved somewhat with the congested ball drills. Williams and Hooper were on the sidelines doing running drills, Cooney did a bit early then left the track, Lake was sighted only briefly, but most of the senior group were out there including Murphy and Hargrave

[Remi Moses]

The other website ( teeny bopper Footy) had Dale suffering a setback and Hooper had OP?
Any truth?