Wallis

[stefoid]

Hi Willi watchers - what are WallyJnrs pros and cons? What has prevented him from playing as many games as Libba for instance?

[GVGjr]

Probably a clogged midfield meant that there was only room for one of the draftees.

His kicking his is main weakness mainly around that his kicks have a tendency to float. Not every draftee makes it in the first season but Wallis should be a better option in 2012

[Sockeye Salmon]

The worry for me is his lack of a weapon. Even if he gets enough of it he goes backwards more often than forwards.

A poor man's Daniel Cross, perhaps, without the marking or the rabid attack on the ball.

The best we could hope for would be a Matt Priddis type, right down to the hair.

[The Doctor]

Hi Willi watchers - what are WallyJnrs pros and cons? What has prevented him from playing as many games as Libba for instance?

he's not as good and thought that before they were drafted.

still I think he'll be a good player I just think Libba will be an excellent player.

[GVGjr]

he's not as good and thought that before they were drafted.

still I think he'll be a good player I just think Libba will be an excellent player.

Given the emotion of Father/Son selections were you comfortable with the first round pick price?

[The Coon Dog]

I always felt that with Wallis it would take a little while. Ever since he was a kid he has played in the thick of it on the ball. This should have been seen as a development year at Williamstown where he learnt to play elsewhere (HBF) as he was hardly going to get a game ahead of a fit Cooney, Griffen, Boyd, Cross, Ward etc... in the Bulldogs midfield.

[The Doctor]

Given the emotion of Father/Son selections were you comfortable with the first round pick price?

yes I am.

I thought Libba was a steal for us.

[LostDoggy]

Wallis is too footy smart and too hardworking&dedicated to not make it.
The downside is he's a step slow and has a short floating kick.

Not sure whether you can put speed or a bullet kick on a player. If you can, he'll be excellent, if you can't he'll still make it but probably more as workhorse type. Workhorse types generally rely on strength and being fearless and as a result are late bloomers.

[Remi Moses]

Just a tad early to make a conclusive judgement.
All I'll say is gotta reckon he's going to get more midfield chances now that moneybags has departed.

[jeemak]

The worry for me is his lack of a weapon. Even if he gets enough of it he goes backwards more often than forwards.

A poor man's Daniel Cross, perhaps, without the marking or the rabid attack on the ball.

The best we could hope for would be a Matt Priddis type, right down to the hair.

Surely this is a touch over the top after one season and at 19?

[Maddog37]

Wallis is too footy smart and too hardworking&dedicated to not make it.
The downside is he's a step slow and has a short floating kick.

Not sure whether you can put speed or a bullet kick on a player. If you can, he'll be excellent, if you can't he'll still make it but probably more as workhorse type. Workhorse types generally rely on strength and being fearless and as a result are late bloomers.



Luke Ball springs to mind.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Surely this is a touch over the top after one season and at 19?

Me comparing someone to Cross isn't really a slight

[LostDoggy]

I was thinking Sam Mitchell, his work ethic means he will make it, he needs time to develop. Got lots of it in the finals for Willy, thinks very quick and usually puts it to a good place.

Its hard to get and inside mid roll at our club atm, he is a natural replacement for cross, same attitude and might even be a bit better footballer in the long run.

[bornadog]

Wallis needs to develop into a spot that suits his style of play (whatever that is). In his first year he seemed to be able to get the ball a bit so he will eventually be racking up possessions. He has the footy smarts, but needs to work on decision making and his disposal.

[Ghost Dog]

He's just a kid. nuff said.

[bulldogsman]

Its hard to get and inside mid roll at our club atm, he is a natural replacement for cross, same attitude and might even be a bit better footballer in the long run.

This is what I've said all along.

I thought he would get games ahead of Libba, but I'm not concerned that he didn't. It was always going to be one or the other.

I haven't seen much of him this year, but from a junior perspective I found his ball use was ok. His kicks do float but they generally hit their mark. Perhaps it could be a confidence issue or he's struggling to come to terms with the extra pressure at the moment.

[stefoid]

Thanks. I was kind of hoping to hear that he had great disposal, at least by hand, but was still coming to terms with the speed of the game or fitness or something.

Didnt want to hear his disposal was anything less than great.

Really, wallis and Libba came as a package. Which one went round 1 and which round 2 was academic.

[The Cowshed]

I think he'll be right once he finds his natural position in the centre but for the moment he is way too slow, is too soft (can't handle a one on one situation) and he wants to handball all the time. I hope somenone takes him aside and works on a few of these aspects to bring him up to speed. His opportunity will probably arise when Cross retires.

[Go_Dogs]

I haven't seen much of him this year, but from a junior perspective I found his ball use was ok. His kicks do float but they generally hit their mark. Perhaps it could be a confidence issue or he's struggling to come to terms with the extra pressure at the moment.

I tend to agree. He's not going to be a Gilbee-like user by foot, but he's good enough and certainly should be a better user by foot than Cross is.

I think Mitch will be fine and I expect him to play quite a lot of senior footy next year. I see him developing into a player that can keep his direct opponent quiet, do the defensive stuff, but also work hard to create an option going forward.

[jeemak]

Me comparing someone to Cross isn't really a slight

No, but saying they're a "poor man's" version of him might be!

[Desipura]

I think he'll be right once he finds his natural position in the centre but for the moment he is way too slow, is too soft (can't handle a one on one situation) and he wants to handball all the time. I hope somenone takes him aside and works on a few of these aspects to bring him up to speed. His opportunity will probably arise when Cross retires.

Wallis is not too soft, every time the ball was too be won in a one on one contest he would not shirk the issue.
You have been making some outlandish statements, some true and much with little foundation.

[Topdog]

I think he'll be right once he finds his natural position in the centre but for the moment he is way too slow, is too soft (can't handle a one on one situation) and he wants to handball all the time. I hope somenone takes him aside and works on a few of these aspects to bring him up to speed. His opportunity will probably arise when Cross retires.

Don't confuse strength with softness. He simply isn't strong enough yet but will be.

[ledge]

Wallis is not too soft, every time the ball was too be won in a one on one contest he would not shirk the issue.
You have been making some outlandish statements, some true and much with little foundation.

I think he meant needs a bit more harder body, Liberatore is lucky in the way he has a natural hard body his dad was stocky and solid his uncle an olympic bodybuilder, its in the genes.
Where Wallis has a not so solid gene.

[LostDoggy]

The worry for me is his lack of a weapon. Even if he gets enough of it he goes backwards more often than forwards.

A poor man's Daniel Cross, perhaps, without the marking or the rabid attack on the ball.

The best we could hope for would be a Matt Priddis type, right down to the hair.

Sockeye, this comes across as a bit harsh on a 19 year old.
Cowshed.. Too soft? You are wrong.

Let's see the steps the guy makes this year and better still.. Judge him at 22.

[Ghost Dog]

Sockeye, this comes across as a bit harsh on a 19 year old.
Cowshed.. Too soft? You are wrong.

Let's see the steps the guy makes this year and better still.. Judge him at 22.

Agreed. there can be a massive difference in development in one y ear of footy. The kid is practically just a first year uni kid. Harsh.

[The Cowshed]

Wallis is not too soft, every time the ball was too be won in a one on one contest he would not shirk the issue.
You have been making some outlandish statements, some true and much with little foundation.

I think he is being found out for pace at the moment and this affected his confidence this year, particularly in winning the ball when caught out in a one on one situation in open space (he doesn't have the speed to break away). Hopefully, with a pre-season or two under his belt and some opportunities we will see his pace increase and the creative side of him come to the fore.

And yes, I can be harsh, but hey, I been going to the footy since the mid 70s and have seen every game for the last 30 years and the premiership count sits at Nil, zero, zippo, nothing...so I am a little harder to please as I have seen and heard it all before. I just tell it as I see it. Hopefully though, once in our lifetime, our fortunes will turn around.

P.S Maybe I'm a little harder on Wallis because one day I think he will captain the side down the track.

[Ghost Dog]

I think he is being found out for pace at the moment and this affected his confidence this year, particularly in winning the ball when caught out in a one on one situation in open space (he doesn't have the speed to break away). Hopefully, with a pre-season or two under his belt and some opportunities we will see his pace increase and the creative side of him come to the fore.

And yes, I can be harsh, but hey, I been going to the footy since the mid 70s and have seen every game for the last 30 years and the premiership count sits at Nil, zero, zippo, nothing...so I am a little harder to please as I have seen and heard it all before. I just tell it as I see it. Hopefully though, once in our lifetime, our fortunes will turn around.

P.S Maybe I'm a little harder on Wallis because one day I think he will captain the side down the track.


Tell it like it is eh? measuring a 19 year old's debut year as if he were a regular. That ain't telling it like it is...
What you want to avoid is exactly that, setting him up as the future captain of the club before our eggs are hatched

[The Cowshed]

I guess there are two camps. those to who a premiership is everything and those who just want to enjoy and win the next game.

Well this is true Ghost Dog, but our club will not survive into the future if we continue to enjoy the next game. We don't have a god given right to continually play in this competition and I for one do not accept poor performance, I want to win and win premierships. Our very survival counts on it.

The gulf between the have's and have not's will continue to get bigger and who know's there may well be a break away formed as in 1897. Our club as it is doing needs to strive to attain premierships and the relentless pursuit of excellence otherwise, one day, we will find ourselves left behind. Premierships attract supporters, sponsors, money etc and we need to keep ourselves in the top bracket so we will always have our club to support.

[Desipura]

I think he is being found out for pace at the moment and this affected his confidence this year, particularly in winning the ball when caught out in a one on one situation in open space (he doesn't have the speed to break away). Hopefully, with a pre-season or two under his belt and some opportunities we will see his pace increase and the creative side of him come to the fore.

And yes, I can be harsh, but hey, I been going to the footy since the mid 70s and have seen every game for the last 30 years and the premiership count sits at Nil, zero, zippo, nothing...so I am a little harder to please as I have seen and heard it all before. I just tell it as I see it. Hopefully though, once in our lifetime, our fortunes will turn around.

P.S Maybe I'm a little harder on Wallis because one day I think he will captain the side down the track.

I too have been going to the footy since the 70s. Many will tell you I am not easy to please either.
Interesting that you did not defend your soft statement rather pointing to his lack of pace? Not too sure how his lack of pace is related to him being labelled unfairly by you as soft?

Wallis may not end up being the most talented player at the end of his career.
Given how professional he is reported to be in his approach/attitude to the game, I would not be surprised if he becomes a true leader in the years to come.
We all know we have a shortage of TRUE leaders who deliver when we really need them. I'm confident he will leave no stone unturned to become a very good long time AFL footballer.

[Remi Moses]

Can't believe wallis is even being discussed!
FFS the kid's 19 years old! We all want a flag and let's be honest if flags were nourishment we would have fair dinkum starved to death 40 years ago.

[mjp]

Can't believe wallis is even being discussed!
FFS the kid's 19 years old! We all want a flag and let's be honest if flags were nourishment we would have fair dinkum starved to death 40 years ago.

I am surprised you are surprised! Cooney was killed by supporters in his first year!

I don't like him being called soft. I am a bit like SS though in that I wonder if he has a single elite skill - he is good at most everything but just lacks the 'WOW'...Libber has one - he wins stoppages. I wonder what sort of player young Mitch will end up as?

He does remind me a lot of Daniel Cross at this stage though. I think that is a good thing (the attack at the contest will come) and if all of our draft picks turned into 200-game players we would be in a pretty good spot.

[chef]

The worry for me is his lack of a weapon. Even if he gets enough of it he goes backwards more often than forwards.

A poor man's Daniel Cross, perhaps, without the marking or the rabid attack on the ball.

The best we could hope for would be a Matt Priddis type, right down to the hair.

This is who he reminds me of in the way he plays, moves and looks. He is Priddis's doppelganger.

If he ends up anywhere near as good I will be very happy.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Wallis' game is better suited to at least 3 pre-seasons under the belt. As others have noted, he doesn't have an elite skill - but he's solid in most areas. He needs to develop a hard, competitive edge and then other areas of his game will float to the surface. However, because he hasn't got the physicality/body/endurance yet, he's a little bit in limbo as he can't play inside or outside at the moment. As a result, his confidence perhaps took a little beating.

Could Wallis be played off a half back? Purely from a learning perspective, of course.

[Ghost Dog]

Well this is true Ghost Dog, but our club will not survive into the future if we continue to enjoy the next game. We don't have a god given right to continually play in this competition and I for one do not accept poor performance, I want to win and win premierships. Our very survival counts on it.

The gulf between the have's and have not's will continue to get bigger and who know's there may well be a break away formed as in 1897. Our club as it is doing needs to strive to attain premierships and the relentless pursuit of excellence otherwise, one day, we will find ourselves left behind. Premierships attract supporters, sponsors, money etc and we need to keep ourselves in the top bracket so we will always have our club to support.

I understand your frustration and concern.
Agree that by the time cross retires, he should have developed to a level where we can really scrutinize his game. He wasn't AFL standard this season and that's why we didn't see much of him. That's also why I feel it's a bit early to be looking for a scapegoat for our wayward season amongst youngsters.

[Before I Die]

Well this is true Ghost Dog, but our club will not survive into the future if we continue to enjoy the next game. We don't have a god given right to continually play in this competition and I for one do not accept poor performance, I want to win and win premierships. Our very survival counts on it.
The gulf between the have's and have not's will continue to get bigger and who know's there may well be a break away formed as in 1897. Our club as it is doing needs to strive to attain premierships and the relentless pursuit of excellence otherwise, one day, we will find ourselves left behind. Premierships attract supporters, sponsors, money etc and we need to keep ourselves in the top bracket so we will always have our club to support.

I want a Premiership as much as the next person, however, these statements that winning premierships guarantee everything else will be rosie are just not valid. Port Adelaide won a premiership, Nth Melbourne won a number of them, where is their guaranteed rosieness? The day I get no joy from a Bulldog victory is the day I think about giving it away.

Re Wallis, I get the feeling the club is very happy with his progress.

[immortalmike]

I am surprised you are surprised! Cooney was killed by supporters in his first year!

I don't like him being called soft. I am a bit like SS though in that I wonder if he has a single elite skill - he is good at most everything but just lacks the 'WOW'...Libber has one - he wins stoppages. I wonder what sort of player young Mitch will end up as?

He does remind me a lot of Daniel Cross at this stage though. I think that is a good thing (the attack at the contest will come) and if all of our draft picks turned into 200-game players we would be in a pretty good spot.

One question. Did Scott West have an elite skill (especially as a 18-19 year old)?
From the relatively few times I've seen him play I thought young Wally has fantastic hands/vision, is extremely tough and is actually a pretty good field kick. With some more time he can be anything.

[GVGjr]

One question. Did Scott West have an elite skill (especially as a 18-19 year old)?
From the relatively few times I've seen him play I thought young Wally has fantastic hands/vision, is extremely tough and is actually a pretty good field kick. With some more time he can be anything.

You can always find exceptions from the past but it often has little relevance. If someone had a questionable training ethic or was a bit of a larrikin but an otherwise very talented player surely we can't use the Doug Hawkins example to minimise the initial observation?.
If someone is slow do we automatically say lets ignore that point because of Greg Williams?
The demands of the game change and while great players from the past could cover their flaws it doesn't mean all players now can do the same.

I'm more than OK with how Wallis is progressing but like every other youngster he does need to improve in a number of area's.

[Ghost Dog]

You can always find exceptions from the past but it often has little relevance. If someone had a questionable training ethic or was a bit of a larrikin but an otherwise very talented player surely we can't use the Doug Hawkins example to minimise the initial observation?.
If someone is slow do we automatically say lets ignore that point because of Greg Williams?
The demands of the game change and while great players from the past could cover their flaws it doesn't mean all players now can do the same.

I'm more than OK with how Wallis is progressing but like every other youngster he does need to improve in a number of area's.

Yeah, but the midfield position is one area where all things are forgiven if you can actually get the thing. I can think of a dozen Luke ball types in modern footy.
So, when discussing this role, I think you can safely support the above point with examples and say, give the kid a break.

[LostDoggy]

What is his elite skill?

Poise...............and with that he can overcome issues such as elite pace. Think Mitchell, Ball and Bartels.

[The Doctor]

One question. Did Scott West have an elite skill (especially as a 18-19 year old)?

yes, he could get it more often than anyone else

[immortalmike]

You can always find exceptions from the past but it often has little relevance. If someone had a questionable training ethic or was a bit of a larrikin but an otherwise very talented player surely we can't use the Doug Hawkins example to minimise the initial observation?.
If someone is slow do we automatically say lets ignore that point because of Greg Williams?
The demands of the game change and while great players from the past could could their flaws it doesn't mean all players now can do the same.

I'm more than OK with how Wallis is progressing but like every other youngster he does need to improve in a number of area's.

Fair point and I'm definitely not disagreeing that Wallis needs to improve. Of course he does! But my point was can we really judge such things as elite weapons at AFL level from a teenager who plays such a tough role. And that with the right work ethic these perceived issues can be worked around (thus my Scottie West example). Surely that's not unreasonable.


yes, he could get it more often than anyone else

At 19? Really because I remember a small, slowish goalsneak.

[1eyedog]

Well this is true Ghost Dog, but our club will not survive into the future if we continue to enjoy the next game. We don't have a god given right to continually play in this competition and I for one do not accept poor performance, I want to win and win premierships. Our very survival counts on it.

The gulf between the have's and have not's will continue to get bigger and who know's there may well be a break away formed as in 1897. Our club as it is doing needs to strive to attain premierships and the relentless pursuit of excellence otherwise, one day, we will find ourselves left behind. Premierships attract supporters, sponsors, money etc and we need to keep ourselves in the top bracket so we will always have our club to support.

No it doesn't. Look at the flags North won during the 90s and then the AFL tries to roll them out in the mid 2000s. Send them to Tassie, merge them etc.


One question. Did Scott West have an elite skill (especially as a 18-19 year old)?
From the relatively few times I've seen him play I thought young Wally has fantastic hands/vision, is extremely tough and is actually a pretty good field kick. With some more time he can be anything.

Uncanny ability to read the play and create space in an area the ball was going to be before the play unfolded. He carried this ability through his entire career and racked them up as a result.

This is who he reminds me of in the way he plays, moves and looks. He is Priddis's doppelganger.

If he ends up anywhere near as good I will be very happy.

This.

[LostDoggy]

What is his elite skill?

Poise...............and with that he can overcome issues such as elite pace. Think Mitchell, Ball and Bartels.

This.

He will be an accumulator in time (with size -- he was a big accumulator in his junior days), but his decision making is the big weapon in his arsenal that is not as obvious to observers looking for more flashy attributes. James Hird didn't have any particular weapons either other than a super football brain. Conversely, someone like a Justin Sherman looks a million dollars on the surface compared to a Wallis type, but the good decision makers (once physically mature) are rarer and more precious, and is what makes the current Geelong side great more than any specific physical attribute.

And I'm sure most of us on WOOF have been as long-suffering as Cowshed thinks he is, am I right EJ? ;)

[Raw Toast]

Good thread.

Wallis should go ok, the question we're interested in is will he be elite. As a junior he was elite because he got a heap of the ball, used it to advantage, and stood up in the big games. Some recruiting types noted that while his kicking was not technically excellent, he almost always put the ball to the advantage of his team-mate.

This year Wallis struggled to deal with the pace of the game, and to find a clear role. He also might have felt a bit prematurely that he already belonged and so ruffled a feather or two. I think his workrate is excellent, and that he'll get a clear role soon enough and then his ball-winning and poise will start to shine through more.

Young Libba clearly projects better at the moment, but I think Wallis will become a very valuable player fairly soon, not sure it will be this year though.

[Remi Moses]

Young Mitch was on SEN tonight stock standard interview until my ears pricked that there had been a senior group and junior group that had happened and that the younger players didn't get much of a say. In fact they were seen and not heard,and under McCartney everyone was equal and will get a say.

[ledge]

Young Mitch was on SEN tonight stock standard interview until my ears pricked that there had been a senior group and junior group that had happened and that the younger players didn't get much of a say. In fact they were seen and not heard,and under McCartney everyone was equal and will get a say.

Im confused did you mean under Eade they had the split meeting or today?

[azabob]

Young Mitch was on SEN tonight stock standard interview until my ears pricked that there had been a senior group and junior group that had happened and that the younger players didn't get much of a say. In fact they were seen and not heard,and under McCartney everyone was equal and will get a say.


Im confused did you mean under Eade they had the split meeting or today?

I read it as under Eade they were in two groups.

Now they are one group and will each get a say.

[w3design]

Fair point and I'm definitely not disagreeing that Wallis needs to improve. Of course he does! But my point was can we really judge such things as elite weapons at AFL level from a teenager who plays such a tough role. And that with the right work ethic these perceived issues can be worked around (thus my Scottie West example). Surely that's not unreasonable.



At 19? Really because I remember a small, slowish goalsneak.
Me too, and just to show how misleading early impressions can be, Scott West was constantly bagged in his first few seasons as 'soft'.

I haven't been dazzled by Wallis just yet, but I remember many other players that have either surpassed early expectations, or failed to live up to early hype. We just don't know yet, but he seems such a quality kid, and I'm looking forward to watching him next year.

[Ghost Dog]

Me too, and just to show how misleading early impressions can be, Scott West was constantly bagged in his first few seasons as 'soft'.

I haven't been dazzled by Wallis just yet, but I remember many other players that have either surpassed early expectations, or failed to live up to early hype. We just don't know yet, but he seems such a quality kid, and I'm looking forward to watching him next year.

"It's the bloodlines"

Phar Lap - The movie

[Remi Moses]

Im confused did you mean under Eade they had the split meeting or today?

Under Eade.
Sounded a bit clicky

[immortalmike]

Me too, and just to show how misleading early impressions can be, Scott West was constantly bagged in his first few seasons as 'soft'.

I haven't been dazzled by Wallis just yet, but I remember many other players that have either surpassed early expectations, or failed to live up to early hype. We just don't know yet, but he seems such a quality kid, and I'm looking forward to watching him next year.

I agree remember how much better Ray looked than Cooney in the early days. I also agree with your whole post, said it much better than I could...

[LostDoggy]

.

And I'm sure most of us on WOOF have been as long-suffering as Cowshed thinks he is, am I right EJ? ;)

Try 50 $%#&$%@ years:eek:

[Remi Moses]

Some of us have been traumatized for a long long time

[Hotdog60]

43 years for me, can I see us win the big one before I bite the big one.:D

[strebla]

Only 28 years from me but even if its 50 as long as I am here to see one I don't care would prefer sooner rather than later though!!

[LostDoggy]

As would we all!!!

[jeemak]

I read it as under Eade they were in two groups.

Now they are one group and will each get a say.

Maybe that's how it was under Eade, although it could also be a comment from the perspective of a guy who's spent his entire career to the start of 2011 being a leader and gun player who's voice was always heard and considered, only to find out things are different in the big league.

I'm not an Eade apologist by any stretch, but I take with a grain of salt these sorts of comments from potentially naive players. Especially when a new sherriff has just walked into town.