Pick 17- Clay Smith

[Greystache]

http://mm.afl.com.au/portals/0/2011/draft/smith-clay-2011.jpg

Former club:Gippsland Power/Lucknow
DOB:11/05/1993
Height:180cm
Weight:78kg
Position:Midfielder

Player assessment- Tough inside left footer with an insatiable desire to win the ball in the air or on the ground. He is relentless at the opposition when they are in possession. He also has the capacity to win contests when outnumbered, which was a feature of his play representing Vic Country in the NAB AFL U18 Championships, at which he won All Australian honours. He had an excellent year with Gippsland Power, averaging 26.3 disposals, 4.5 clearances

[chef]

Welcome to the Dogs Clay, I'm happier with this pick now that we have Talia.

[LostDoggy]

He is relentless at the opposition when they are in possession.

I like this.

[bornadog]

Pretty good CV, All Australian and looks like a Ward replacement.

[boydogs]

Should be a good player, welcome Clay

[stefoid]

Highlights show him unconcerned by attempts to tackle or impede him when he has the ball - shrugs them off and keeps going. I think this 'geelong way' is what our coach sees in him.

[the banker]

Clay, here's to a great career at The Bulldogs.

[bulldogsman]

I really like his aggression at the contest and intensity. His kicking is a bit of a flaw, but you can't fault his endeavour.

[Mantis]

I really like his aggression at the contest and intensity. His kicking is a bit of a flaw, but you can't fault his endeavour.

His efficiency going by TAC Cup stats seem quite good... is this more because he takes the easy option which improves the efficiency?

[GVGjr]

His efficiency going by TAC Cup stats seem quite good... is this more because he takes the easy option which improves the efficiency?

He doesn't move the ball down the field enough rather he often wants to chip it sideways.

[Mantis]

He doesn't move the ball down the field enough rather he often wants to chip it sideways.

A bit like Mitch Wallis does?

[LostDoggy]

He doesn't move the ball down the field enough rather he often wants to chip it sideways.

I hope McCartney gets that out of his game because that is the weakness in Mitch Wallis' game.

[bulldogsman]

His efficiency going by TAC Cup stats seem quite good... is this more because he takes the easy option which improves the efficiency?

Takes the easy option.

[Twodogs]

Dalrympile just said on SEN that he sees Smith as a good replacement for Cal Ward.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Reminds me a little of Scott West but probably has a bit more breakaway speed

[the banker]

Reminds me a little of Scott West but probably has a bit more breakaway speed

We wish.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Scotty West was a genius with space and angles. One of the best ever.
Those 7 best and fairests weren't Richmond best and fairests.

[LostDoggy]

Happy with this one. Sounds like just the type we need.

[Cyberdoggie]

Reminds me a little of Scott West but probably has a bit more breakaway speed

He seems to play a bit more like Maloney from the Dees.

More a physical player than West, and not as flashy.

[stefoid]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/clay-smith-sprints-up-the-order/story-fn7x8me2-1226199636227

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ball-at-the-feet-of-clay-smith/story-fnau1fjg-1226193510395

[Remi Moses]

Someone said he's like watching Nat Geo Wild on Foxtel.
Attacks his opponent like a lion on a gazelle :)

[the banker]

Given his attitude profile I think he will become one of our favourite players. We will love seeing him near the contest.

[anfo27]

I love the sound of Clay and we need more of this hard as nails type. People have queried his kicking and from his highlights its tough to get a gauge on it. On his highlights he is always kicking in congestion or aound the body so i'll have to wait to see him at training or practice games, he does have a different kicking style though.

[KT31]

Welcome to the Doggies and may you be loyal and a lot better than Judas Mark 2.

[Raw Toast]

I hope the kid goes well, but it annoys me when our recruiting staff speak of him as a replacement for Ward - Ward was on his way to becoming an elite kick (see his 2010 prelim as an example of the way he could dominate a game by foot).

Of course that said, it might be that his pressure skills and tacking are better than Ward's. But count me as concerned for now.

[stefoid]

Quigley did a writeup on Smith (Also, out of interest, I read somewhere that Smith switched from basketball to footy at age 15)

Clay Smith
DOB 11/5/93 Ht 180 Wt 82

Clay Smith I see as being a Mitch Robinson type player. He is smaller than Robinson but is that same kind of hard nut who commits himself to every contest. He also loves to hand out thumping tackles a lot like Robinson. I am not sure he is going to have the size to do that too much at AFL level but his tackling is good. Generally he just seems to thrive on the physical aspects of the game.

A lot like Robinson when he started one of the big problems with Smith is his kicking. He is a poor kick with a variable style that lets him down too often. He will occasionally have a two handed drop which just looks terrible and can go anywhere. This is the main reason he wasn't in my mock to start with. I find it hard to take guys who miss targets are crucial times.

He will strictly be an inside mid at the next level where his kicking can be disguised. In tight he is not hugely clean but he is serviceable and his hands are pretty quick. He has pretty good strength allowing him to break tackles but he does leave his feet a bit more than I would like. He tends to run at people at bit in the contest and gets buffetted around a bit and gets tackled more than I would be comfortable with if I was his coach. I think the coaching staff need to get him to concentrate a bit more on just trying to win the ball rather than being physical in the contest. His handballing is solid.

At the Combine he showed elite endurance with a fantastic 15.23 in the beep. His agility testing was also very good and his speed off the mark over the first 5 metres is elite. I think his top end speed is only average (he ran a 3 flat in the 20m) but he gets to that top end speed very quickly. He is not a jumper and showed that at Combine. He is never going to be a marking target and rarely even tries to be so preferring to wait down.

He is pretty good reading the ball off the hands of his forwards in crumbing situations but is a poor finisher often missing goals he should get. For someone with his endurance base I was also disappointed with his outside game at the Champs. He didn't get much in the way of uncontested possessions and finished with only 17 possessions a game. For someone who was onball as much as him that was a fairly pedestrian return.

Still after coming back from the Champs he played strongly in the TAC and had some very good games matched up on guys like Tyson who went right at the top of the draft. He has a great attitude and works very hard on and off the field. I think he interviewed very well at Combine and a lot of teams were interested in him coming into the draft. Like Robinson I see him as being a tough physical player with quite a few rough edges that are going to need polishing. He will be a presence in the middle though and combined with Libba and Wallis the Bulldogs could have a very strong clearance combination for years to come.

[immortalmike]

Interesting write-up by Quigley...
It's funny, Quigley states that Smith is not very good overhead and a poor kick for goal but an article linked to earlier stated that both of these were strengths of his. I'm confused as to who to believe...but as a Buldog supporter I'm inclined to believe the negative so Quigley it is...

[stefoid]

Interesting write-up by Quigley...
It's funny, Quigley states that Smith is not very good overhead and a poor kick for goal but an article linked to earlier stated that both of these were strengths of his. I'm confused as to who to believe...but as a Buldog supporter I'm inclined to believe the negative so Quigley it is...

Actually I like his bios because they specifically point out negatives. I mean, if you took most of the bios going around literally, the top 40 players are all future bronlow medalists.

I think if you re-read Quigleys report, he is saying that Smith cant jump and doesnt present himself as a marking target. Thats not to say that he cant mark the ball, but that he dosent play as a forward target, prefering to wait down. and on his kicking, he is talking specifcally about crumbing he ball and then kicking for goal, rather than a deliberate set shot. Perhaps given the time to take a deliberate set shot, he might be accurate enough, if you believe the other bios.

[Ghost Dog]

Actually I like his bios because they specifically point out negatives. I mean, if you took most of the bios going around literally, the top 40 players are all future bronlow medalists.

I think if you re-read Quigleys report, he is saying that Smith cant jump and doesnt present himself as a marking target. Thats not to say that he cant mark the ball, but that he dosent play as a forward target, prefering to wait down. and on his kicking, he is talking specifcally about crumbing he ball and then kicking for goal, rather than a deliberate set shot. Perhaps given the time to take a deliberate set shot, he might be accurate enough, if you believe the other bios.

I dunno. I mean I watch his reels and he looks good, but at that age, you could take any number of players you see on field. Alot of it has to do with their mental take on things, when interviewed and understanding of what they are getting themselves in for.
Hard for ordinary punters to gauge that stuff. pretty cool under pressure. Likes to break a tackle.

[immortalmike]

Actually I like his bios because they specifically point out negatives. I mean, if you took most of the bios going around literally, the top 40 players are all future bronlow medalists.

I think if you re-read Quigleys report, he is saying that Smith cant jump and doesnt present himself as a marking target. Thats not to say that he cant mark the ball, but that he dosent play as a forward target, prefering to wait down. and on his kicking, he is talking specifcally about crumbing he ball and then kicking for goal, rather than a deliberate set shot. Perhaps given the time to take a deliberate set shot, he might be accurate enough, if you believe the other bios.

I was referring to these quotes specifically

"He has a spring-heeled leap, with Power region manager Peter Francis noting opponents were forced to play tall midfielders on Smith to avoid being burned in overhead marking duels."

and

"But he's also able to get forward and kick goals from the midfield.

"That's his spark. His kicking for goal is actually really good."

So maybe you're right on his goal kicking but there is definitely a conflict with reports on his marking. I'm not saying Quigley is wrong (I have no idea) but rather that it's funny how players can be viewed differently from different lenses. And I agree with draft-time write ups being incessantly positive.

[bulldogsman]

I agree with Quigley's assessment.

He doesn't have a big leap on him at all.
He's a pretty accurate set shot, but when under pressure he can spray it a bit.
The Mitch Robinson comparison is spot on.

[LongWait]

Who do we believe... the kid's coach, or some anonymous "expert" on BigFooty? Not a hard question to answer for me.

[Dazza]

Like the look of this kid. We'll have a great clearance team in a couple years time.

[immortalmike]

Who do we believe... the kid's coach, or some anonymous "expert" on BigFooty? Not a hard question to answer for me.

Yeah, because the coach has absolutely no conflict of interest whatsoever and is sure to talk down his boy in the lead up to the draft. I think I'm going to take the information I've gained from both reports and keep an eye on young Clay this year and see for myself. I suggest that is a tack most of us should take.

[LongWait]

Yeah, because the coach has absolutely no conflict of interest whatsoever and is sure to talk down his boy in the lead up to the draft. I think I'm going to take the information I've gained from both reports and keep an eye on young Clay this year and see for myself. I suggest that is a tack most of us should take.

It's not that the coach is talking the boy up. Of course the coach will talk up the kid.

The point here is that the couple of strengths that the coach highlighted were the very things the internet expert highlighted as weaknesses. It's not that hard to work out that the internet dude is probably not the one to believe here. It wouldn't surprise me if he formed his opinions mainly from YouTube footage and BigFooty group think. But if you think that Quigly is right and the coach is therefore totally clueless, then go right ahead.

ps. Quigly is the guy who thought that Panos would be an amazing steal if he slipped to the second round. We picked him up in the Rookie Draft. Enough said.

[Raw Toast]

It's not that the coach is talking the boy up. Of course the coach will talk up the kid.

The point here is that the couple of strengths that the coach highlighted were the very things the internet expert highlighted as weaknesses. It's not that hard to work out that the internet dude is probably not the one to believe here. It wouldn't surprise me if he formed his opinions mainly from YouTube footage and BigFooty group think. But if you think that Quigly is right and the coach is therefore totally clueless, then go right ahead.

ps. Quigly is the guy who thought that Panos would be an amazing steal if he slipped to the second round. We picked him up in the Rookie Draft. Enough said.

Don't know about Quigly in particular, but many people who do detailed mock drafts (including some from this forum) spend a heap of time watching the players in person and on tape. The fact that bulldogsman agreed with Quigly leads me to suspect that the coach was at least gilding the lily a bit.

Of course there's a big leap from being an amateur draft watcher and a recruiter, and every year some players thought to be certainties are not drafted. But the recruiters have a heap more info and still get things disastrously wrong on a fairly regular basis.

I haven't followed the BigFooty mock drafts much the past few years, but before then it was clear to seasoned observers who was a decent judge of footy players. And I suspect Stefoid has good reasons for choosing to highlight his profile. In other words, Quigly is unlikely to be just a clueless internet guy - and it's better to not go off half-cocked.

[Remi Moses]

Yes and I am sure if he doesn't rip it up we'll get a Mitch Wallis type thread questioning whether he'll make it.
Let's just hope we give the kid some time before he's written off!!

[boydogs]

ps. Quigly is the guy who thought that Panos would be an amazing steal if he slipped to the second round. We picked him up in the Rookie Draft. Enough said.

Then Panos proceeded to dominate in the VFL finals and get promoted to the senior list. At the same age, he's ahead of Grant & Cordy who were 1st rounders.

[bulldogsman]

Smith was tested in the bottom 11% for the standing jump and the bottom 10% for the running jump. How does the coach explain that one?

[Sockeye Salmon]

If he played for Geelong Falcons Mick Turner would have said it was because of the kryptonite.

[LostDoggy]

If he played for Geelong Falcons Mick Turner would have said it was because of the kryptonite.

Wasn't Clay Smith the kid you said you would cry if we picked him up?

ps. I'm stoked we have WOOF.. I've been in Lusaka, Zambia for this last week (will be here for another month -- hey, and if you think the West of Melbourne has it bad haha) and missed the draft entirely, so will be catching up on it via reading everything on WOOF later tonight.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Wasn't Clay Smith the kid you said you would cry if we picked him up?



Yep. Not happy, Jan.

[craigsahibee]

We've lost cement(head) but struck Clay.

I should go to bed.

[chef]

Wasn't Clay Smith the kid you said you would cry if we picked him up?
ps. I'm stoked we have WOOF.. I've been in Lusaka, Zambia for this last week (will be here for another month -- hey, and if you think the West of Melbourne has it bad haha) and missed the draft entirely, so will be catching up on it via reading everything on WOOF later tonight.

I said that too, but picking up Talia with our next pick helped change my mind(plus giving it more thought we really do need more than one draft to fix all of our deficiencies).

I am happy now we have Clay and have a feeling he will be able to have an impact for us straight away.

[LongWait]

Then Panos proceeded to dominate in the VFL finals and get promoted to the senior list. At the same age, he's ahead of Grant & Cordy who were 1st rounders.

I have high hopes for Panos and I'm anything but a knocker, but with respect, he hasn't proven anything just yet. Where Panos is in his development relative to other players at the same age is irrelevant - what matters is how good he will be at his best. Refer the Daniel Rich/Steven Hill arguments for example.

The point I was making is that phantom drafts are sometimes interesting to read but you've got to take the assessments in them with a grain of salt. The coaches of the kids and the AFL club recruiting staff are more likely to have been able to identify each players' strengths and weaknesses than "Quigly" of the internet.

[stefoid]

Smith was tested in the bottom 11% for the standing jump and the bottom 10% for the running jump. How does the coach explain that one?

Unusual for someone who came from basketball until 15. Maybe thats why he gave up basketball - white man couldnt jump.

On the plus side, he has max 4 years of footy experience under his belt, so if youre the half-full type (and who isnt this time of year :) ) you could say he has a lot of potential for improvement as he is relatively new to the game.

[Mofra]

Unusual for someone who came from basketball until 15. Maybe thats why he gave up basketball - white man couldnt jump.

On the plus side, he has max 4 years of footy experience under his belt, so if youre the half-full type (and who isnt this time of year :) ) you could say he has a lot of potential for improvement as he is relatively new to the game.
If you're an optimist, you'd also point out that many very good inside midfielders have a basketball background (West, Tony Shaw & Ball come to mind).
The advantage in spacial awareness has to count for something.

[Bulldog Revolution]

He seems to play a bit more like Maloney from the Dees.

More a physical player than West, and not as flashy.

Fair call - he does look more physical,

I suppose it was the left footedness and the evasiveness with the footy, but also the hands that led me to think West

[stefoid]

If you're an optimist, you'd also point out that many very good inside midfielders have a basketball background (West, Tony Shaw & Ball come to mind).
The advantage in spacial awareness has to count for something.

Pendlebury

[Mofra]

Pendlebury
Ja cheers, there are a few blue-chips

[LostDoggy]

I like the look of his highlight reel he seems to have real pace and a hunger for the ball (or the guy who has it). We will have to wait and see but the fact that he lacks a little bit of polish dosn't worry me so much. Its easier to teach someone to improve their kicking than it is to teach someone to gain intensity.

[Greystache]

I had my first look at Clay this morning, he is one huge kid. He kept up with the elite running group, and got quite a bit of footy in the match drills, but his kicking looks a concern. His ball drop is very awkward.

Physically he looks ready to play AFL.

[ledge]

I had my first look at Clay this morning, he is one huge kid. He kept up with the elite running group, and got quite a bit of footy in the match drills, but his kicking looks a concern. His ball drop is very awkward.

Physically he looks ready to play AFL.

Grant and Cross look awkward too

[Hot_Doggies]

Grant and Cross look awkward too


Exactly!!

And they couldn't hit a barn from 40 yards

[Murphy'sLore]

Who is our kicking coach?

[ledge]

Who is our kicking coach?

Well its not Chuck Norris thats for sure.

[Ghost Dog]

Talia has a really weird ball drop too.
Re smith, Have to laugh at him in this video with his jumper all torn to bits, libba style

http://video.heraldsun.com.au/2166458967/2011-Draft-Pick-Clay-Smith

[Greystache]

Who is our kicking coach?

Rohan Smith