Midfield 2012

[Go_Dogs]

OK, now the thread for the midfield.

Some of the names I expect we'll see as part of the midfield rotations:-

Boyd, Cross, Griffen and Libba will be the key components. These guys will drive our ball winning and clearance work.
Other more seasoned players who'll rotate through include Picken, Sherman, Giansiracusa, Moles and maybe Higgins.
Hopefully Cooney will spend some significant time in the middle.
The younger players including Wallis, Smith, along with DJ, Howard and Tutt will probably spend some time in the middle.
Dahlhaus may also get more opportunities further up the field.
I'm sure there are some others too.

As far as ruck, Minson should get the first crack and we'll probably rotate Roughead and Cordy as the support. I expect all 3 to play over 15 games, but will Minson stamp his authority? Can Roughead or Cordy have breakout years? Hopefully Jones and Williams don't do any ruck work in 2012.

So what are peoples thoughts on who may play in the middle this season? Who will be the surprise packet that breaks out?

[the banker]

Boyd, Griffen, Cross, Libba the core. Would like to see Picken spend time as an inside mid. Bonus if Smith can have a year like Libbas last year. Sherman, Tutt, Moles? As outside runners. If Cooney is fit enough he is a given, but I like the idea of him forward.

Hadn't envisaged Cordy getting 15 games. Round the ground mobility the biggest challenge for the rucks.

Think the mids will have to work very hard to keep up with the best outfits. We look short on talent.

[stefoid]

Would love to see Kingy and/or Barbie do significant things in the midfield. Tutt in particular could be a weapon with his talents.

We dont know yet if he can do what he did on debut with someone actually trying to stop him. If can - we got a player.

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=the banker;254727]

Think the mids will have to work very hard to keep up with the best outfits. We look short on talent.[

Without the class of Cooney to back up Griffen's A- abilities our midfield is pretty B grade. Boyd and Cross would die for the ball but silky ain't what comes to mind when referring to either. We need to use the Ward pick on a smooth slinky mid to back up the libba and (hopefully) wallis workhorses in the coming years. Fortunately we are three years ahead with our tall forward development so timing is pretty good to pull it all together. I don't think the midfield will be regularly smashed but on the times it does get opened up prepare for some very unpretty results. If Tutt and Libba take another step up then they can hopefully prove me wrong.

[Mantis]

Please delete

[Mantis]

Without the class of Cooney to back up Griffen's A- abilities our midfield is pretty B grade. Boyd and Cross would die for the ball but silky ain't what comes to mind when referring to either. We need to use the Ward pick on a smooth slinky mid to back up the libba and (hopefully) wallis workhorses in the coming years. Fortunately we are three years ahead with our tall forward development so timing is pretty good to pull it all together. I don't think the midfield will be regularly smashed but on the times it does get opened up prepare for some very unpretty results. If Tutt and Libba take another step up then they can hopefully prove me wrong.

I think that's being generous.

With no Cooney in decent touch our midfield wouldn't be in the best 12 or so in the comp, especially as we have to also cover the loss of Ward and Hudson.

[LostDoggy]

I think that's being generous.

With no Cooney in decent touch our midfield wouldn't be in the best 12 or so in the comp, especially as we have to also cover the loss of Ward and Hudson.

It's weird isn't it -- just three years ago, with Hudson, Coons, Griff, Boydy and Cross we were seen as one of the best units in the comp, and rarely lost to anyone on clearances stats-wise. Last year, with Hudson slowing up, Coons out and Crossy a liability in the modern possession/pressing game, suddenly we were losing clearance stats to the likes of the Gold Coast (which I was livid about).

I guess that shows how good Coons really is (and the exponential impact of having TWO guys -- Coons and Griff -- opponents have to put serious work into stopping instead of just one: imagine having three, oh wait, that's Geelong), but I think it's also that the sub rule changed the game significantly and moved past our group a bit, especially re: rucks who were BOTH first-class ruckmen AND top-drawer athletes and forwards. We never really settled on a ruck/sub strategy all year last year.

[Sockeye Salmon]

It's weird isn't it -- just three years ago, with Hudson, Coons, Griff, Boydy and Cross we were seen as one of the best units in the comp, and rarely lost to anyone on clearances stats-wise.


And we were all drooling over having a bunch of 23 and under midfielders to take over from them - Cooney, Griffen, Higgins, Ward and Picken with Libba and Wallis to come.

[stefoid]

Wait, Cross is a liability now?

Do not agree.

[LostDoggy]

Wait, Cross is a liability now?

Do not agree.

Personally, I had hoped Cross could take a role out of the backline by this year as he is still hard as nails. I'm simply lamenting the fact that with Ward gone and Cooney a question, our lack of classy depth in the mid's is suddenly pretty glaring based on last years exposed form. Beyond Griffin I can't spot a likely consistent game breaker and it's too easy in today's game to shut a single gamebreaker down. Griff single handedly killed North Round 17 2010 but he had a huge support cast. That's seems conspicuously absent. It'll come but our midline this year is unlikely to dominate and that is a bigger issue than our lack of a Barry or Lake that we faced last year in my opinion. Crossy is a great contributer but he's not the guy who can single-handedly smash an opposing spine wide open by a few consecutive brilliant goals.

[LostDoggy]

Wait, Cross is a liability now?

Do not agree.

Sorry should have been clearer... crossy's disposal, especially by foot, is a liability.

[stefoid]

Personally, I had hoped Cross could take a role out of the backline by this year as he is still hard as nails. I'm simply lamenting the fact that with Ward gone and Cooney a question, our lack of classy depth in the mid's is suddenly pretty glaring based on last years exposed form. Beyond Griffin I can't spot a likely consistent game breaker and it's too easy in today's game to shut a single gamebreaker down. Griff single handedly killed North Round 17 2010 but he had a huge support cast. That's seems conspicuously absent. It'll come but our midline this year is unlikely to dominate and that is a bigger issue than our lack of a Barry or Lake that we faced last year in my opinion. Crossy is a great contributer but he's not the guy who can single-handedly smash an opposing spine wide open by a few consecutive brilliant goals.

Ill keep saying this: despite what cross isnt (quick, a long kick) what he IS is EFFECTIVE. he wins hard ball, he gets involved in a lot of play that results in scoring shots, he helps out his teammates with 1%ers and lays a lot of tackles.

Thats a fair way from "liability".

[stefoid]

Sorry should have been clearer... crossy's disposal, especially by foot, is a liability.

Hes not a great kick and he plays within his limitations, chips to guys in space when he has to kick it. He is no turnover king.

But at the end of the day, he is in our top 2 or 3 at helping get a score on the board and stopping the opposition from scoring which is about as objective a measurement as you can get, I would think.

I have a feeling our game plan this year is going to be 'animals' around the stoppages, with chains of handballs until we get it to someone who can kick long to advantage. Crossy is going to be earlier in the chain than later, thats all.

[LostDoggy]

Hes not a great kick and he plays within his limitations, chips to guys in space when he has to kick it. He is no turnover king.

But at the end of the day, he is in our top 2 or 3 at helping get a score on the board and stopping the opposition from scoring which is about as objective a measurement as you can get, I would think.

I have a feeling our game plan this year is going to be 'animals' around the stoppages, with chains of handballs until we get it to someone who can kick long to advantage. Crossy is going to be earlier in the chain than later, thats all.

He has had some shocking clangrs especially when trying to kick into the forward 50, but yep, all good points you make there, especially about adjusting our game plan to suit our troops!

[craigsahibee]

Cross needs to improve his urgency when he has the ball from a mark or free kick situation. His deliberation over who and when to give it too (ultimately sideways) really hurt us at times last year. Our lack of run off half back (Harbrow) was a huge factor in this.

[bornadog]

Cross needs to improve his urgency when he has the ball from a mark or free kick situation. His deliberation over who and when to give it too (ultimately sideways) really hurt us at times last year. Our lack of run off half back (Harbrow) was a huge factor in this.

Well easy to be critical of Cross with the way he hesitates, but surely outside running players should be aware of Cross, so that when he has the ball they are running past him for the quick handball.

[Hotdog60]

How do we think Moles will go this year, he has pace although disposal is a problem at times. Could he hold a spot in the midfield.

[GVGjr]

How do we think Moles will go this year, he has pace although disposal is a problem at times. Could he hold a spot in the midfield.

There isn't a lot of differences he has over some other players. Hard at it but limited with his disposal skills. I don't mind him as a player if he can manage his injuries but I'm not sure which players he replaces in the midfield. Perhaps there is a spot form him on the IC bench.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

How do we think Moles will go this year, he has pace although disposal is a problem at times. Could he hold a spot in the midfield.

I'm not sure that Moles will be in our best 6 midfielders but I did like him as a Sub last year, he was IMO the best sub we used, I'm not sure that this will suit him as no one would want to play a as sub every week.

[mjp]

I'm not sure that Moles will be in our best 6 midfielders but I did like him as a Sub last year, he was IMO the best sub we used, I'm not sure that this will suit him as no one would want to play a as sub every week.

Best 6? We will play 12 or so each week, so he doesn't need to be in the best 6 to get a game!

[Mantis]

Well easy to be critical of Cross with the way he hesitates, but surely outside running players should be aware of Cross, so that when he has the ball they are running past him for the quick handball.

Opposition teams all know Cross doesn't like to kick. That's why they pick up their opponents and zone off Cross when he has the ball.

Crossy just needs to learn to back his skills and move the ball on quickly.... But I guess he hasn't done this in his first 10 years of senior footy so what's going to change now???

[stefoid]

Opposition teams all know Cross doesn't like to kick. That's why they pick up their opponents and zone off Cross when he has the ball.

Crossy just needs to learn to back his skills and move the ball on quickly.... But I guess he hasn't done this in his first 10 years of senior footy so what's going to change now???

I think he does the right thing - makes sure he doesnt cough it up - he can hardly kick over a jam tin, so asking him to hit a difficult target with his looping 40m kicks is asking for trouble.

Macca is aiming at trench warfare next season, remember, not blitzkreig.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Opposition teams all know Cross doesn't like to kick. That's why they pick up their opponents and zone off Cross when he has the ball.

Crossy just needs to learn to back his skills and move the ball on quickly.... But I guess he hasn't done this in his first 10 years of senior footy so what's going to change now???

This is my biggest problem with Cross.

He always plays on and then hesitates, dances in a little circle, and puts himself (and his team mates) under immense pressure.

His disposal isn't absolutely woeful, it's his decision making.

[craigsahibee]

Well easy to be critical of Cross with the way he hesitates, but surely outside running players should be aware of Cross, so that when he has the ball they are running past him for the quick handball.

Agree totally. That was my point. In 2010 we had Harbrow to run past him but last year we had a distinct lack of run. Murph was the only one running out of the back line which opposition teams were awake to after a month and a half. I didn't mean to be critical of Crossy, it's just that he needs the options running past him to help his effectiveness.

[LostDoggy]

Agree totally. That was my point. In 2010 we had Harbrow to run past him but last year we had a distinct lack of run. Murph was the only one running out of the back line which opposition teams were awake to after a month and a half. I didn't mean to be critical of Crossy, it's just that he needs the options running past him to help his effectiveness.

I'm really hopeful (nearly confident!) that Wood and Howard can to pick this up more this year. This is why I wanted cross off a half back flank. Cross does the grunt and passes off to that group plus murph running past. We still need him at the contest though until the younger tanks and game smarts develop further. I think we all agree he's not a liability - just has special needs positionally and a specific support cast required to get the most out of his strengths. He's the axel rose of our footy club: you have to pick all the blue jellybeans out into a bowl to make it work. Flip side is if you so, he'll belt out a hell of a tune....

[LostDoggy]

He's the axel rose of our footy club: you have to pick all the blue jellybeans out into a bowl to make it work. Flip side is if you so, he'll belt out a hell of a tune....

I don't even know if I agree completely with the rest of your post but it doesn't matter: this snippet above will go down as an all-time WOOF classic.

[stefoid]

I'm really hopeful (nearly confident!) that Wood and Howard can to pick this up more this year. This is why I wanted cross off a half back flank. Cross does the grunt and passes off to that group plus murph running past. We still need him at the contest though until the younger tanks and game smarts develop further. I think we all agree he's not a liability - just has special needs positionally and a specific support cast required to get the most out of his strengths. He's the axel rose of our footy club: you have to pick all the blue jellybeans out into a bowl to make it work. Flip side is if you so, he'll belt out a hell of a tune....

If you think Cross is getting exposed due to his speed in the midfield, moving him to the backline would be 100 times worse.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think he does the right thing - makes sure he doesnt cough it up - he can hardly kick over a jam tin, so asking him to hit a difficult target with his looping 40m kicks is asking for trouble.

Macca is aiming at trench warfare next season, remember, not blitzkreig.

The MC has erred on two accounts with Cross in the past, firstly to play him off a wing rather than the midfield at centre bounces where his attack on the ball is second to none. The other grave mistake is not to have our players being alert constantly to take a hand pass from Cross rather than to put up with his lack of kicking skills.Hopefully BMcC's teaching skills will ensure these changes are brought into play.

[chef]

The MC has erred on two accounts with Cross in the past, firstly to play him off a wing rather than the midfield at centre bounces where his attack on the ball is second to none. The other grave mistake is not to have our players being alert constantly to take a hand pass from Cross rather than to put up with his lack of kicking skills.Hopefully BMcC's teaching skills will ensure these changes are brought into play.

Just because he puts his head over he ball doesn't make him an inside mid.

[immortalmike]

Just because he puts his head over he ball doesn't make him an inside mid.

Exactly what I was going to say. Boyd, Cooney and Huddo have always been our clearance guys, Cross is more an accumulator.