Ball Movement

[jeemak]

So I've been thinking a little bit about how we plan to move the ball in transition from defense. Of particular interest to me is how we plan to do it after the opposition has been able to set up the press after multiple contests in their forward/our defensive 50m.

If we can get Lake, Hargrave and eventually Morris fit and firing, along with an improving Williams I think we can handle the quick and high ball coming in and feed it to guys like Murphy and Wood, to me the area of concern is when we get bogged down and have to work our way through a wall of pressing forwards and midfielders.

From what I can gather from training reports to this point, there seems to be an emphasis on thriving on winning contested ball. This says to me the strategy could be to grind our way forward under the above mentioned conditions, which is fine however, are we fit enough physically or mentally to maintain this strategy for four quarters?

Once we have the opportunity to break free can we rely on Jones, Grant and the smaller to medium sized forwards to present options across wing and half forward, or will we be left short due to a lack of experience or quality in this area?

I'd be grateful if posters that watch training and have seen some match simulation over the last couple of weeks could shed some light on our strategy between half back and half forward, because due to a lack of genuine pace and polish in our midfield I think this is an area where we'll be exposed this year.

[stefoid]

One thing Ive been worried about under Eade is the ball carrier looking to dish off or evade a tackle, rather than wear a tackle to gain extra time to make sure of the disposal. Panic kicks and hospital handballs etc...

We will have a lot better chance of running the ball through or out of congestion, and getting useful clearances if we stand up in tackle more often. And Im sure this is one area Mac is concentrating on - big bodied mids can stand up in tackles.

So I reckon we will see a lot more kicking long over the press to a contest, then running it out of the congested area. Old school footy kicking long to big blokes is back in vogue.

This is also why I reckon we will play two ruckman with one playing foward rather than sitting on the bench - more long targets. We might end up splitting out goal kicking over multiple players, but it wont be a return to the mighty midget forward line, thats for sure.

[Mofra]

We will have a lot better chance of running the ball through or out of congestion, and getting useful clearances if we stand up in tackle more often. And Im sure this is one area Mac is concentrating on - big bodied mids can stand up in tackles.
Another aspect Geelong were quite good at - pace is secondary when it's simply a numbers game of find the free player. Mark Stevens (?) wrote an article a couple of years ago about how opposition teams have to be wary of having two players tackle the same Geelogn ball carrier as they are so good at getting one mid free to run the ball in for an inside 50 entry, and teh two on one scenario plays right into their hands.

[jeemak]

Another aspect Geelong were quite good at - pace is secondary when it's simply a numbers game of find the free player. Mark Stevens (?) wrote an article a couple of years ago about how opposition teams have to be wary of having two players tackle the same Geelogn ball carrier as they are so good at getting one mid free to run the ball in for an inside 50 entry, and teh two on one scenario plays right into their hands.

We've been guilty of not communicating effectively when pursuing the ball carrier, resulting in multiple players attacking rather than leaving one to cover the receiving option over the last few year. It's frustrating to see from the stands.

[stefoid]

Another aspect Geelong were quite good at - pace is secondary when it's simply a numbers game of find the free player. Mark Stevens (?) wrote an article a couple of years ago about how opposition teams have to be wary of having two players tackle the same Geelogn ball carrier as they are so good at getting one mid free to run the ball in for an inside 50 entry, and teh two on one scenario plays right into their hands.


Good point - Its the speed of the ball thats important.

[always right]

McCartney has said on several occasions that we should expect to see bulldogs players supporting each other in numbers. That makes sense in terms of dishing the ball off to a free players when tackled.

[jeemak]

McCartney has said on several occasions that we should expect to see bulldogs players supporting each other in numbers. That makes sense in terms of dishing the ball off to a free players when tackled.

Our skill level needs to match our ambition though. If we flood the contest with numbers and isolate opposition pressing players it only takes one poor decision or disposal and we're going to get scored against.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We've been guilty of not communicating effectively when pursuing the ball carrier, resulting in multiple players attacking rather than leaving one to cover the receiving option over the last few year. It's frustrating to see from the stands.

We were as bad as it gets in this area. Incredibly furstrating -- even in our good years. Last year was simply deplorable.


Our skill level needs to match our ambition though. If we flood the contest with numbers and isolate opposition pressing players it only takes one poor decision or disposal and we're going to get scored against.

This.

Contested ball and numbers to the contest is fine, but I am worried we'll be cut to shreds on the turnover/rebound.

[chef]

Good point - Its the speed of the ball thats important.

It's what made us a quick side under Eade.

[Dazza]

I just hope we can get it out of our back half after the opposition has scored a point. Major concern for us last year.

[stefoid]

It's what made us a quick side under Eade.

Unfortunately draw and chip doesnt work very good against a zone / rabid press.

[BulldogBelle]

I just hope we can get it out of our back half after the opposition has scored a point. Major concern for us last year.



This is where Harbrow's syle circa 2009-2010 suited Eade's game plan - same as giving Wood, Murphy etc the same remit

If we didnt run through the zone, we would kick the ball along the boundary line to a 50:50, at best win the contest, and most times the ball dribbled over for a throw in rugby style

[chef]

Unfortunately draw and chip doesnt work very good against a zone / rabid press.

Works for Hawthorn.

[Eastdog]

At times last season we tried playing the forward press. West Coast and Collingwood last season implemented this style very well. For the forward press to work you need maximum effort from the players and you saw this with Collingwood a few times when last season when that effort wasn't there and you saw of happened. St Kilda played the defensive press instead of the forward press in 2009 and 2010.

[jeemak]

At times last season we tried playing the forward press. West Coast and Collingwood last season implemented this style very well. For the forward press to work you need maximum effort from the players and you saw this with Collingwood a few times when last season when that effort wasn't there and you saw of happened. St Kilda played the defensive press instead of the forward press in 2009 and 2010.

You're right. From those seasons how did you view the teams you've mentioned opponents moving the ball against their respective presses? Who was most successful, and how did they do it? Can the Bulldogs do similar next year with the cattle we have?

[Eastdog]

You're right. From those seasons how did you view the teams you've mentioned opponents moving the ball against their respective presses? Who was most successful, and how did they do it? Can the Bulldogs do similar next year with the cattle we have?

We can only do it if all our players are fit. I believe if thats not the case I don't think we can sustain the forward press for the entire game. Before the forward press it used to be all about corridor football which was perfected by Geelong until other teams figured them out such as Collingwood in 2010.

[jeemak]

We can only do it if all our players are fit. I believe if thats not the case I don't think we can sustain the forward press for the entire game. Before the forward press it used to be all about corridor football which was perfected by Geelong until other teams figured them out such as Collingwood in 2010.

Eastdog, once again I kind of agree with you, but this thread is about us moving the ball out of defense against pressing teams.

I am asking you and other posters how you and they think we can combat the forward and defensive pressing teams when we're trying to move the ball from our backline to our forward line :).

[Eastdog]

Eastdog, once again I kind of agree with you, but this thread is about us moving the ball out of defense against pressing teams.

I am asking you and other posters how you and they think we can combat the forward and defensive pressing teams when we're trying to move the ball from our backline to our forward line :).

I understand what you mean jeemak. We would have to really have strong bodies around the ball and be very strong in tackling which we haven't been very good in recent times. A great example of this tackling pressure was when Collingwood beat Geelong by 86 points in 2008 where Collingwood tackled and pressured all night and shut down the might of Geelong. The players have to be committed for the entire game in order for it to work like with any plan.

[jeemak]

Eastdog, I feel like I'm swimming against the tide here man, but I'm still interested in your opinion.

I'm asking the forum how we would move the ball forwards from our backline to our forward line when we have the football.

What are your thoughts on that?

[Eastdog]

Sorry jeemak I am dancing around the question. I think we have to have strong bodies and fast players in the midfield for the back line to give the ball off and then they can get it inside 50 to our main forward target. Dalhaus would be a good crummer as he has a lot of speed. With the mids like Cross I think they need to kick more rather than handball. Some players (Cross and Boyd) in the midfield need to have better disposal efficiency. I hope this sought of answers the question jeemak.

[jeemak]

Thanks mate.

I think that you raise a valid point about our mids in Boyd and Cross needing to improve their disposal efficiency, but I think they're at a stage in their careers where only marginal improvement in that area will be experienced. So we need to accept their shortcommings in this area (and not discount their strengths and what they add to our structure) and find players that can supplement their in close contested output.

So who do you think can add some polish and run between half back and half forward when we're trying to find a target with that second or third kick out of defense? I personally think we're a bit lean in this area. Of course we have Murphy, but not many players in the league move and use the ball like he does.

[Eastdog]

Thanks mate.

I think that you raise a valid point about our mids in Boyd and Cross needing to improve their disposal efficiency, but I think they're at a stage in their careers where only marginal improvement in that area will be experienced. So we need to accept their shortcommings in this area (and not discount their strengths and what they add to our structure) and find players that can supplement their in close contested output.

So who do you think can add some polish and run between half back and half forward when we're trying to find a target with that second or third kick out of defense? I personally think we're a bit lean in this area. Of course we have Murphy, but not many players in the league move and use the ball like he does.

Murphy is great in that position. Do you think Dalhaus might be good there with his speed or do you think Dalhaus is much better suited in the forward line. What are your thoughts of Gilbee.

[jeemak]

For mine a fit Gilbee will be a player that can clear the ball quickly and effectively from defense with long precise kicking, only if Hargrave and Lake are playing well. While he was down on fitness last year, this year I don't see how he's going to find the space and time he needs to use the ball well unless Lake, Williams, Morris and Hargrave control the lofted ball coming in to our defense like they did in 2008-2009.

[Eastdog]

For mine a fit Gilbee will be a player that can clear the ball quickly and effectively from defense with long precise kicking, only if Hargrave and Lake are playing well. While he was down on fitness last year, this year I don't see how he's going to find the space and time he needs to use the ball well unless Lake, Williams, Morris and Hargrave control the lofted ball coming in to our defense like they did in 2008-2009.

You make a good point. There not the same kind of players they were a couple of years ago. I believe though that Morris is going to be out of action until around round 6.

[DragzLS1]

You make a good point. There not the same kind of players they were a couple of years ago. I believe though that Morris is going to be out of action until around round 6.

I wouldnt plan on Morris slotting straight back into his old position either.

The 1 upside about Gilbee is his kicking and with space can be very damaging. If he is fit I dont see why he cant have a go but needs to really show he is up to it. He will run out of time alot quicker then previously.

Cant wait for this season to start CMON!!

[Eastdog]

I wouldnt plan on Morris slotting straight back into his old position either.

The 1 upside about Gilbee is his kicking and with space can be very damaging. If he is fit I dont see why he cant have a go but needs to really show he is up to it. He will run out of time alot quicker then previously.

Cant wait for this season to start CMON!!

Gilbee definitely is a question mark as it will all depend on his fitness. Morris is a big loss for us and like you said even when he returns he might not play in his usual position and it will take time for him to really come back.

[stefoid]

Works for Hawthorn.

Well, not really any better last year for them than it worked for us when we were top 4 material. Hawks accounted for most teams, but failed consistantly against the cats and the pies (lost all of their 5 combined games against those clubs) And they fell over the line in a comback win against the weagles (a good pressing side) in their only game against the coasters in Tasmania, on the back of 3 goal heroics from franklyn in the last quarter.

Im all in favour of different styles of game, its part of what makes AFL a great game, but I feel its a mistake to rely on precision kicking as the key to a game plan.

p.s. and I reckon if the wheels hadnt fallen off for the saints last year, they also would have beaten the hawks due to their defensive pressure. As it was, the hawks win over the saints last year was their first in a H&A match since 2007.

[Mofra]

Im all in favour of different styles of game, its part of what makes AFL a great game, but I feel its a mistake to rely on precision kicking as the key to a game plan.
A precision kicking gameplan might actually work during the H&A season - I wouldn't have much faith in it when it really counts though.

Isn't there a stat floating around that shows that every year, the premiers are in the top few sides for contested possession?

[stefoid]

Isn't there a stat floating around that shows that every year, the premiers are in the top few sides for contested possession?

No doubt, but there is also always a team or three who does very well in the contested possies and then kicks it to the opposition and gets thumped.

[jeemak]

Geelong have been an excellent example of a team establishing a balance between grinding the ball forward with hard bodies, and using quick skillful players to find targets in space.

I want us to be versatile enough to pick our moments to take the game on with bold decision making and skill execution, but we will only be able to execute if players have protection and we have enough system and hard two way running to work a loose option. It's a big ask.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Gilbee's great value was his ability to take the kick outs with pin point accuracy.
Guerra with the Hawks and the Cats Josh Hunt provide similar value which has become a vital skill in setting up play. Murphy wasn't as effective as good as he was in 2011 when given this responsibility. Gilbee has the class to reclaim this role in what may well be his final year.