Murphy to forward line

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

What did appear obvious from our opening NAB Cup games was our ineffective attack. I would welcome your comments regarding moving Murphy to half forward to provide some badly needed class and experience, combined with goal kicking ability.At face value we do not have enough proven goalkickers to kick enough goals. Panos, Jones and Dalhaus are still inexperienced leaving Giansircusa as our one reliable and consistent goalkicker. There will be many who will think that we need Murph's brilliance down back and that is hard to argue against. The loss of Barry Hall is a huge one and the presence of Murphy on the forward line might just be the tonic required to lift our flagging spirits.

[Greystache]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul is always a gamble. Moving Murphy to the forward line might be viable if Hargrave can stay fit, and even more so Veszpremi can make the role of running and kicking halfback his own. Early signs are good, but it's very early.

[GVGjr]

I posted something along this line a few weeks back NBP.
While no one can argue how terrific Murphy has been as a defender over the last few seasons I think the combination of Wood, Howard and maybe Veszpremi needing to occupy the mid sized defender positions and the fact that our forward line is very inexperienced for leaders means that a move forward for Murphy should be given serious consideration.
Both Grant and Jones need someone to organise things up forward and with Giansiracusa probably anchored to the forward pocket we need someone across half forward as well.
Murphy is so gifted that he doesn't need a lot of possessions to make an impact and he doesn't appear to have lost any of his zip so I think it's an easy transition.

When I consider what we should be trying to get out of the season in terms of developing the younger guys on our playing list I think Murphy to the forward line makes some sense.

[GVGjr]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul is always a gamble. Moving Murphy to the forward line might be viable if Hargrave can stay fit, and even more so Veszpremi can make the role of running and kicking halfback his own. Early signs are good, but it's very early.

I'm trying to consider the bigger picture. The season ahead is one of development as far as I am concerned.

Murphy moving forward frees up a spot and more importantly provides the opportunity for someone like Howard to become that creative defender. Over the longer term this has to be a positive for us.

This might be classed as a gamble but I think it should be a strong consideration.

A back line of
Hargrave - Lake - Wood
Howard - Williams - Veszpremi

until Morris gets back should be OK and we can play Markovic when we have to.

I'd like to have two Robert Murphy's but I think he could be a huge benefit to Jones and Grant.

[Rocco Jones]

I agree with GVG that Bobby up forward is better for our team development wise but how will his body stand up to it?

[Greystache]

I'm trying to consider the bigger picture. The season ahead is one of development as far as I am concerned.

Murphy moving forward frees up a spot and more importantly provides the opportunity for someone like Howard to become that creative defender. Over the longer term this has to be a positive for us.

This might be classed as a gamble but I think it should be a strong consideration.

A back line of
Hargrave - Lake - Wood
Howard - Williams - Veszpremi

until Morris gets back should be OK and we can play Markovic when we have to.

I'd like to have two Robert Murphy's but I think he could be a huge benefit to Jones and Grant.

I appreciate that, but if Lake doesn't get back to his best and Morris isn't available that leaves our backline pretty exposed. Wood is raw, Williams is a battler, and Hargrave needs senior players around him. Either way we look likely to be exposed, the question is whether it's better to throw the defence or the forwards to the wolves?

[jeemak]

This old chestnut! :)

I'm of the belief that he is one of the best CHF's in the league (albeit an unconventional example of one), and I, like others really wish we had two of him.

I'm resigned to him playing in defense, but time and time again, particularly on the bigger grounds I get frustrated by the lack of smart leading presenting to our ball movers out of defense, and Murphy is the perfect player to remedy this issue.

On a smaller ground like Docklands, a running Murphy off half back is able to assist the ball being pumped deep in to our forward line though. The need to have that linking player leading from half forward is somewhat diminished.

Can any of you see him playing CHF when needed, and in defense at other times? Do we need to have the same back/forward six each week?

[stefoid]

The better the delivery, the better the forwards will fare.

We have enough forward options, we just need to play them - panos, grant, jones, dickson, hill, dal, sherman, redpath, skinner.

Lets play these guys and see who stands up.

[jeemak]

Agree with some of that Stefoid, but I've always thought that players develop better when their area of the ground isn't one that is being spanked week in week out.

I'm not sure the players you've mentioned will get by suffiently to develop without a little help. I don't mind throwing them in the deep end early on, but if it turns out they need a hand then Murphy could play a role in making their area more competitive.

[Ghost Dog]

His body looks ok. Put him up forward then rest him down back. Swingman.
Tend to agree with Stefoid though. We have enough firepower in our forward line.
But none of these guys can really replace Bob down back.

[Sockeye Salmon]

We have enough firepower in our forward line.


OMG
Did you really write that? We have the worst forward line in the league (give or take)

[chef]

I agree with GVG that Bobby up forward is better for our team development wise but how will his body stand up to it?

I don't think it can and we would be lucky to get half a season out of him as a forward.

[LostDoggy]

OMG
Did you really write that? We have the worst forward line in the league (give or take)

If it was written "we have enough potential firepower..." it might be fairer. I agree on paper our forward line is as bad as it get however we need to give these guys a year to show us who can actually play down there. Hill might even get games. This year is in the bin IMO except for giving the new coaches and the new players an opportunity to gel and experiment. Throwing Murphy forward might even win us a couple more mid-level games than we would otherwise have won but that doesn't equate to a premiership. I'd rather get games into a structure that has potential to win the flag in the next 3-5 years. If it's 3 years then Murph might still be around to have a crack at it with us but I think we need to keep him down back to give him that chance.

[BulldogBelle]

I don't think it can and we would be lucky to get half a season out of him as a forward.



Murphy would be playing on a flank at half forward and floating up to the wings

Jones will still gain the most attention from the opposition teams gorilla defenders, so I cant see that Murphy would take a massive battering

With Wood, Vespremni, Higgins, Gilbee and Howard all capable of playing the small creative defenders we have quite a few options if Murphy was moved forwards

The same debate about developing our forwards can be applied to developing our backs - by playing a senior player are we going to slow their development...

[stefoid]

The same debate about developing our forwards can be applied to developing our backs - by playing a senior player are we going to slow their development...

Maybe, but an elite rebounding defender will help the young forwards more than a good half forward flank will help the young defenders.

Also, a steady back six is going to stabilize the team -- not let scores blow out so much. Vezpremi, Howard and Wood will all get their chances to play and develop. Even Williams still has a lot to learn.

[Mofra]

With Wood, Vespremni, Higgins, Gilbee and Howard all capable of playing the small creative defenders we have quite a few options if Murphy was moved forwards
I remained unconvinced.

Wood - doesn't get enough of it to be classed as a rebounding type
Vez - hopefully, but did get carved up by Gia in the intra-club so we lose some defensive capacity
Higgins - will play mid/forward going by pre-season comments
Gilbee - will he regain even his average form? Not convinced
Howard - doesn't provide body-pressure as a backman, better suited to a Cross-endurance type role on the wing

Even if Shaggy gets back to his best all year, we'll need more than one genuine rebounder - for me, Murphy is it. He's one of the best in the competition and one of our few genuine A-graders

[Ghost Dog]

OMG
Did you really write that? We have the worst forward line in the league (give or take)

Yes I really did write that - meaning 'potentially'

Remember the days we had multiple kickers of goals? An even spread of goals from smaller running players like Eagleton, Brad, Gia, That was a very productive time for us. Why can't we re-create this with Sherman, Gia, Grant, Dahlhaus, Murphy, Gilbee, Vezpremi, then throw in Panos, Liam Jones, Skinner, Ayce Cordy or even Will to help get the ball to ground? We might have the worst forward line on the park today, but not the worst forward line players. Give it 6 months to a year and see how we are.

Banking on a fresh set of eyes in the coaching dept to help our players re-form.

[LostDoggy]

Murph's knees cannot stand a full season up forward. He has 1, 2 seasons at best left as a forward, at least 3 left as a HBF.

I think the obvious solution is to start him at HBF and swing him up forward for 10-30% game time for impact bursts, probably switch hitting with Sherman (who starts up forward but drops back to cover for Murph). Any more than that and he may not even last the season.

[Ozza]

Its nice to think of Bobby running around up forward - unfortunately I don't think its a luxury we can afford. We need his poise and pace down back at the moment.

Plus, he was All Australian Half Back last year, and he has stated its his preference to play there....I'd say he should be almost permanent 'back' - with the occasional time forward if we can afford it match up wise in defence at the time.

[Doc26]

Maybe, but an elite rebounding defender will help the young forwards more than a good half forward flank will help the young defenders.

Also, a steady back six is going to stabilize the team -- not let scores blow out so much. Vezpremi, Howard and Wood will all get their chances to play and develop. Even Williams still has a lot to learn.

Can see value in Murph moving forward although Stefoid's comment is a very good summation and why Bobby is better served running off half back.

[always right]

We got a full season out of Murphy last year. That tells me we need to keep him in defence with the occasional foray forward to create a mis match.

There is no question that our disposal skills have diminished across the ground in the last couple of years and it's critical we have someone running ut of defence who can deliver the ball with some precision. I fear he could be killed by some of the passes coming into him if he plays most of his time up forward.

I want the joy of watching him play for as long as possible. That means he must play back for the rest of his career.

[Rocco Jones]

His body looks ok. Put him up forward then rest him down back. Swingman.

IMO his body looks ok because he isn't playing forward.

[Ghost Dog]

IMO his body looks ok because he isn't playing forward.

That's a fair call. But ask yourself. 10-20% game time in the forward 50 during critical moments in a game is worth the throw of a dice. Is it not?

No player goes on forever. Don't put him in cotton wool. He wouldn't want that.

[Rocco Jones]

That's a fair call. But ask yourself. 10-20% game time in the forward 50 during critical moments in a game is worth the throw of a dice. Is it not?

No player goes on forever. Don't put him in cotton wool. He wouldn't want that.

I have no problem with 10-20% TOG forward when situation calls for it, he still spent patches there last year. Just replying to your suggestion for him to be a forward first.

I don't think you can cotton wool anyone these days (cue Shaun Higgins) just that the rigours of half back suit him a lot more than anywhere else.

[Ghost Dog]

I have no problem with 10-20% TOG forward when situation calls for it, he still spent patches there last year. Just replying to your suggestion for him to be a forward first.

I don't think you can cotton wool anyone these days (cue Shaun Higgins) just that the rigours of half back suit him a lot more than anywhere else.

It serves no purpose to have him dedicated in the FWD line for any length of time, body issue aside; opposition coaches would put a big red circle around him on their whiteboards . Switching him in and out, as we have been doing, is far more effective anyway IMO.

[Mofra]

That's a fair call. But ask yourself. 10-20% game time in the forward 50 during critical moments in a game is worth the throw of a dice. Is it not?
If they were critical moments of the game, I'd want him near the ball. It's not like we're blessed for outside mids/wingmen with pace.

Having said that, is there value to changing the team around if we're close to winning? It could upset the reason we're in the position to take the game in the first place.

[Ghost Dog]

If they were critical moments of the game, I'd want him near the ball. It's not like we're blessed for outside mids/wingmen with pace.

Having said that, is there value to changing the team around if we're close to winning? It could upset the reason we're in the position to take the game in the first place.

There are lots of factors involved. but you have to come back to Paul Roos comments in 2011 when interviewed at a Canberra game ( IIRC ). He said he always felt much relived when Murph started in the back line. It's certainly food for thought.

[SlimPickens]

Maybe, but an elite rebounding defender will help the young forwards more than a good half forward flank will help the young defenders.

Also, a steady back six is going to stabilize the team -- not let scores blow out so much. Vezpremi, Howard and Wood will all get their chances to play and develop. Even Williams still has a lot to learn.

Great point, i agree 100%. For me Murphy is best suited behind the ball and not only for his ball use but also for his ability to defend and nullify his direct opponent

His ability to shut down a player whilst still impacting a game, is right up there with the elite defenders in the competition.