Adam Cooney could spend more time in forward line

[GVGjr]

Adam Cooney could spend more time in forward line (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/adam-cooney-could-spend-more-time-in-forward-line/story-e6frf9jf-1226284390425)

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2011/05/16/1226057/072639-adam-cooney.jpg

WESTERN Bulldogs Brownlow medallist Adam Cooney is poised to spend more time as a leading forward this season.

Cooney, set to play his first game for the Dogs this season against Carlton in Sunday's NAB Cup clash, could be eased back as a dangerous mid-sized target.

Football manager James Fantasia indicated the forward role could be Cooney's most regular position early in the season as he returns from post-season surgery on a chronic knee problem.

"Early in the piece, it might be more of his position (forward). If he is able to maintain and keep his conditioning, that could reverse later in the year," Fantasia said.

Cooney made his name as an explosive midfielder, but was severely restricted by knee issues last season. His speed off the mark and strength overhead could make him a genuine threat coming out of the goalsquare.

The Dogs will tomorrow make a final call on whether to play Cooney or Brian Lake, another whose 2011 season was wrecked by injury, against the Blues.

[SlimPickens]

I like the idea of Cooney playing forward. I can see him playing as a Steve Johnson type, hopefully he can get his body right and we see a lot of Adam this season.

[Maddog37]

As long as we get to see him play I don't care what the position is.

I would also like to see him enjoying his football and play with that bit of strut he used to have.

[Cyberdoggie]

Playing forward is no easier on the knees.

If he doesn't have an impact up forward it will be tough going for him.
We all remember how he struggled to even kick the ball last year when his knee was
bothering him.

If only they could fix Cooney's knee.

[Mantis]

Let's hope his goal kicking improves as it was poor last year.

If his body allows it he still needs to spend large chunks of time in the guts as we sorely missed his explosiveness last year.

[G-Mo77]

Let's hope his goal kicking improves as it was poor last year.

If his body allows it he still needs to spend large chunks of time in the guts as we sorely missed his explosiveness last year.

Does he have any explosiveness left?

[Sockeye Salmon]

All that article makes me think is that his knees aren't as good as they are making out and they're hoping they can get some games out of him by nursing him deep forward.

[Greystache]

Playing forward is no easier on the knees.

If he doesn't have an impact up forward it will be tough going for him.
We all remember how he struggled to even kick the ball last year when his knee was
bothering him.

If only they could fix Cooney's knee.

It's not, but the fitness required to play there isn't as high, so he can take it easier on the training track, in theory allowing him to be able to play more than if he was in the midfield.

[LostDoggy]

Coons is/was a gun forward, but for his longevity he, like Murph, has to go behind the ball. I've mentioned this before, but McLeod towards the end of his career should be the blueprint for how we use Coons and Murph -- McLeod's knees were gone, probably worse then Coons's, but playing on a HBF, running forward in straight lines with a little bit of weaving is a lot different to playing with you back to goal and having to twist and turn to get a shot off.

Playing behind the ball also allows these superb football brains to see the whole game in front of them and read the play and set up the game and control the tempo, especially since they are such sublime kicks of the Sherrin. There are parallels in soccer, with Beckenbauer creating the 'sweeper/libero' position (what footy people like to call the 'quarterback' position even though it actually has more parallels with soccer theory) when he got older and slower. He was able to control games from the back and push forward to score when necessary. This is a transition a lot of smart midfield soccer players make later in their careers as they lose a step of speed.. very few of them go forward, where MORE, not less, explosiveness is required.

This is especially true in AFL as the role of a forward has been redefined to include a lot of pressing, defensive work. You can't have someone resting, struggling or coasting up there. 'Hiding' a player up forward isn't possible anymore -- it's not 1985.

Coons or Murph pushing forward from a deep position to create an overload in terms of numbers and being able to sneak a goal or two from being free of a marker is far more productive than having them waste away up forward with a defender breathing down their neck or worse, a defender running away from them to coast out of their defensive 50.

[Ghost Dog]

Coons is/was a gun forward, but for his longevity he, like Murph, has to go behind the ball. I've mentioned this before, but McLeod towards the end of his career should be the blueprint for how we use Coons and Murph -- McLeod's knees were gone, probably worse then Coons's, but playing on a HBF, running forward in straight lines with a little bit of weaving is a lot different to playing with you back to goal and having to twist and turn to get a shot off.

Playing behind the ball also allows these superb football brains to see the whole game in front of them and read the play and set up the game and control the tempo, especially since they are such sublime kicks of the Sherrin. There are parallels in soccer, with Beckenbauer creating the 'sweeper/libero' position (what footy people like to call the 'quarterback' position even though it actually has more parallels with soccer theory) when he got older and slower. He was able to control games from the back and push forward to score when necessary. This is a transition a lot of smart midfield soccer players make later in their careers as they lose a step of speed.. very few of them go forward, where MORE, not less, explosiveness is required.

This is especially true in AFL as the role of a forward has been redefined to include a lot of pressing, defensive work. You can't have someone resting, struggling or coasting up there. 'Hiding' a player up forward isn't possible anymore -- it's not 1985.

Coons or Murph pushing forward from a deep position to create an overload in terms of numbers and being able to sneak a goal or two from being free of a marker is far more productive than having them waste away up forward with a defender breathing down their neck or worse, a defender running away from them to coast out of their defensive 50.

Like

[DragzLS1]

Coons is/was a gun forward, but for his longevity he, like Murph, has to go behind the ball. I've mentioned this before, but McLeod towards the end of his career should be the blueprint for how we use Coons and Murph -- McLeod's knees were gone, probably worse then Coons's, but playing on a HBF, running forward in straight lines with a little bit of weaving is a lot different to playing with you back to goal and having to twist and turn to get a shot off.

Playing behind the ball also allows these superb football brains to see the whole game in front of them and read the play and set up the game and control the tempo, especially since they are such sublime kicks of the Sherrin. There are parallels in soccer, with Beckenbauer creating the 'sweeper/libero' position (what footy people like to call the 'quarterback' position even though it actually has more parallels with soccer theory) when he got older and slower. He was able to control games from the back and push forward to score when necessary. This is a transition a lot of smart midfield soccer players make later in their careers as they lose a step of speed.. very few of them go forward, where MORE, not less, explosiveness is required.

This is especially true in AFL as the role of a forward has been redefined to include a lot of pressing, defensive work. You can't have someone resting, struggling or coasting up there. 'Hiding' a player up forward isn't possible anymore -- it's not 1985.

Coons or Murph pushing forward from a deep position to create an overload in terms of numbers and being able to sneak a goal or two from being free of a marker is far more productive than having them waste away up forward with a defender breathing down their neck or worse, a defender running away from them to coast out of their defensive 50.

It has been said before, we need a LIKE option when somebody has a good post!

I like the way you think! Cooney is a good size and is super quick, I think playing him off half back is a top idea with murphy on the other side doing the same. That is how you run it out of the defensive 50 and that is how you beat the press :)

[ledge]

My worry is Cooney is a go getter, as a backman you are lead to the ball, you have a man you are responsible for.
Cooney tagging I dont see.
If I was opposition coach I would tell my forward lead away take him out of the game.
Remember if your a backmen the opposition are delivering the ball it wont be delivered to Coons advantage it could be a terrible move.

[LostDoggy]

My worry is Cooney is a go getter, as a backman you are lead to the ball, you have a man you are responsible for.
Cooney tagging I dont see.
If I was opposition coach I would tell my forward lead away take him out of the game.
Remember if your a backmen the opposition are delivering the ball it wont be delivered to Coons advantage it could be a terrible move.

Hi Ledge all good points, but the way defences are set up now in zones, you play space as much as you play opposition players.. very few HBFers in the modern game play a tagging role (McLeod wasn't a tight defensive player by any stretch of the imagination, nor is Johncock, for that matter). In these types of systems, an ability to read the game and predict the direction of the attack two, three phases ahead of everyone else means that interceptions, as much as tackling or spoiling, become an important part of modern day defending.

Look at the way Brian defends (or defended, in 2008-2010). For every contested mark he was taking in the backline he was also taking 2 or 3 uncontested marks around the wing or halfway by reading the play, leaving his man etc. to cut opposition passes off one, two kicks away from the forward 50.

If we play the modern press, when the ball is in our forward 50 our half-back line is probably past the halfway line, or at least sitting on or close to it. A modern day HBF takes as many marks (or makes as many spoils) from opposition defensive clearing kicks (see Fisher and Glibert for examples) as they do from forward 50 entries, so they are an attacking force as much as they are a defensive one. Of course, this all depends on our forwards and mids creating proper pressure. If opposition mids are just strolling through and delivering entries lace out, it doesn't matter that Coons and Murph aren't 'defenders' in the pure sense of the word, SOS+Lake+Jakovich combined wouldn't be able to stop a decent AFL forward from making the play.

Finally, in this day and age of ensuring loose players behind the ball, one would of course work our structures and plays running out from the back so that the ball end up in Coons or Murph's hands as often as possible. I've seen Cooney go behind the ball in general play. His vision and kicking (and ability to create time in possession), like Murph's, is so damn good that with one, two touches he can sweep the ball across the ground and out of the danger zone, and get it into the hands of a runner, turning defence into attack in a flash.

Cooney, like Murphy, is a brilliant, smart, thinking footballer. These guys solve problems on the football field in real-time, which is why you rarely see Murph get smashed even though he's not a natural 'defender', and I doubt that the same challenge is beyond Cooney.

[ledge]

But how many players in the back line do you have doing that, we already have Wood, Murphy and Lake backing themselves, running up the ground, who is staying back, could Murphy and Cooney be one too many and getting in each others way?
I wonder what the balance is in the backline, runners/taggers
I think our problem is more the actual forward line, kicking goals wins games.
Good thinking on maybe back line and a good point on turning with his knee etc but I would prefer we tried him forward first.
Interesting season , new coach and how he will play older players, Gilbee is another runner too.

[jeemak]

Coons is/was a gun forward, but for his longevity he, like Murph, has to go behind the ball. I've mentioned this before, but McLeod towards the end of his career should be the blueprint for how we use Coons and Murph -- McLeod's knees were gone, probably worse then Coons's, but playing on a HBF, running forward in straight lines with a little bit of weaving is a lot different to playing with you back to goal and having to twist and turn to get a shot off.

Playing behind the ball also allows these superb football brains to see the whole game in front of them and read the play and set up the game and control the tempo, especially since they are such sublime kicks of the Sherrin. There are parallels in soccer, with Beckenbauer creating the 'sweeper/libero' position (what footy people like to call the 'quarterback' position even though it actually has more parallels with soccer theory) when he got older and slower. He was able to control games from the back and push forward to score when necessary. This is a transition a lot of smart midfield soccer players make later in their careers as they lose a step of speed.. very few of them go forward, where MORE, not less, explosiveness is required.

This is especially true in AFL as the role of a forward has been redefined to include a lot of pressing, defensive work. You can't have someone resting, struggling or coasting up there. 'Hiding' a player up forward isn't possible anymore -- it's not 1985.

Coons or Murph pushing forward from a deep position to create an overload in terms of numbers and being able to sneak a goal or two from being free of a marker is far more productive than having them waste away up forward with a defender breathing down their neck or worse, a defender running away from them to coast out of their defensive 50.

Like what you're saying for the most part, although I think having Cooney up forward will provide us with a viable goal kicking option, in a team that is going to struggle for diversity in this area. He's also going to play in the midfield, and rotating from the forward line is easier to do than it is from the backline where continuity and predictability of a defensive six or so is a must.

As an aside, your comments with respect to the use of "quarterback" in modern football is spot on. The term became famous after Ben Cousins perfected the first ball receive and kick from a stoppage in the early to mid 2000's, and now for some reason any player who gets a lot of the ball behind the congested midfield is described as such, when "sweeper" is more apt.

[Go_Dogs]

But how many players in the back line do you have doing that, we already have Wood, Murphy and Lake backing themselves, running up the ground, who is staying back, could Murphy and Cooney be one too many and getting in each others way?

Wood to the midfield/forward line? He can take a mark.

I actually don't mind the idea of playing Cooney off half back. He did play back in the SANFL - and if it was sold to him like playing the McLeod role he just might go for it :D

He must be under a huge amount of pressure and I'm sure it's more frustrating for him and his teammates than anyone else. He's such a good player there a positives playing him just about anywhere - let's just hope he's able to a play a full season somewhere.

[Mofra]

Hi Ledge all good points, but the way defences are set up now in zones, you play space as much as you play opposition players..
Bingo - it also allows "slower" defenders a chance to not get cut up on the lead (think Markovic, Hurley).
Cooney as a defender could work - I guess since he hasn't been on the paddock, we wont know if that has been mooted over the summer by B-Mac.


I've seen Cooney go behind the ball in general play.
In games against Collingwood setting Griffen up a few metres behind the midfield pack worked wonders - he had the nous, vision & explosiveness to give us effective clearances whilst stopping their quick mids from getting away. Cooney could play this role when pinch hitting through the middle, leaving the grunt work for the insiders.

[Mofra]

Wood to the midfield/forward line? He can take a mark.
He can, but can he read the play well enough? He doesn't get alot of possessions in the backline - a position where he's getting led to the ball.

[Dazza]

Don't like the cooney down back idea.

His kicking wasn't up to it last year and turnovers down back is the last place you want them.

[strebla]

Don't like the cooney down back idea.

His kicking wasn't up to it last year and turnovers down back is the last place you want them.

He shouldn't have been on the park in most games last year I think you wil see a much different player this year. Unfortunately I think there will be little time in the middle but I can see him playing the Robbie Flower HBF role .

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Don't like the cooney down back idea.

His kicking wasn't up to it last year and turnovers down back is the last place you want them.

This.

If Cooney is fit and his disposal is OK, he needs to play midfield and rest forward.

If he's at 70%, he plays forward.

I don't think there will ever be a time that we/he would benefit from playing in the back half. We don't really have that luxury in the midfield or up forward of even trialing it.

[LostDoggy]

This.

If Cooney is fit and his disposal is OK, he needs to play midfield and rest forward.

If he's at 70%, he plays forward.

I don't think there will ever be a time that we/he would benefit from playing in the back half. We don't really have that luxury in the midfield or up forward of even trialing it.

I understand where you're coming from TBB, but the concept of 'resting forward' just doesn't exist anymore in 2012 football. If anything, the physical demands on a forward are increasing, and from an explosiveness perspective (the stop-start nature of which causes the most wear and tear on the knee) is probably the most demanding on the ground, even more so than in the midfield.

Multiple leads, bending down at speed to crumb, spinning on a dime, changing direction to chase, repeated tackling, lunging to spoil, crashing packs, leaping, snapping shots off at goal -- these aren't the activities that you would associate with 'resting', and if he really IS resting up forward, he will be the first player an opposition coach will exploit going the other way (ie. he will be a defensive liability as a forward).

Thoughts?

[Sockeye Salmon]

I understand where you're coming from TBB, but the concept of 'resting forward' just doesn't exist anymore in 2012 football. If anything, the physical demands on a forward are increasing, and from an explosiveness perspective (the stop-start nature of which causes the most wear and tear on the knee) is probably the most demanding on the ground, even more so than in the midfield.

Multiple leads, bending down at speed to crumb, spinning on a dime, changing direction to chase, repeated tackling, lunging to spoil, crashing packs, leaping, snapping shots off at goal -- these aren't the activities that you would associate with 'resting', and if he really IS resting up forward, he will be the first player an opposition coach will exploit going the other way (ie. he will be a defensive liability as a forward).

Thoughts?

I hope that when they go to 2 interchange and 2 subs (and I think they will) the resting forward will come back.

Without the ability to rest as many players on the bench, midfielders and ruckmen will return to resting and actually have to rest. Or die.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I understand where you're coming from TBB, but the concept of 'resting forward' just doesn't exist anymore in 2012 football. If anything, the physical demands on a forward are increasing, and from an explosiveness perspective (the stop-start nature of which causes the most wear and tear on the knee) is probably the most demanding on the ground, even more so than in the midfield.

Multiple leads, bending down at speed to crumb, spinning on a dime, changing direction to chase, repeated tackling, lunging to spoil, crashing packs, leaping, snapping shots off at goal -- these aren't the activities that you would associate with 'resting', and if he really IS resting up forward, he will be the first player an opposition coach will exploit going the other way (ie. he will be a defensive liability as a forward).

Thoughts?

Good post Lantern.

I think it all comes back to Cooney's physical condition. If he isn't fit enough, then he really shouldn't be played. He has to be at least 90% fit, in which case he should resume full (or close to) midfield duties. He will still be required to play a portion of the game up forward, but you're right in that it's not the type of "rest" as it was a few years ago.

If his knee is giving him any kind of trouble, then he just can't play. The modern game won't allow it, and it's not good for his confidence (and life after footy) either.

Players with injuries will be exploited in any position on the ground these days, no matter how good they are.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

FWIW I think Cooney's case is likely to go one of two ways.

1) He's able to consistently play at around 80-90%, perhaps becoming more of an inside player than he already is.

or

2) He retires in the next 2 or so years.

[bornadog]

2) He retires in the next 2 or so years.

I heard him say early last year that he will probably not play beyond 30.