How do you rate our pre-season?

[angelopetraglia]

How do you rate our pre-season?

Some observations;

-We have been competitive in every match without dominating a match.
-Our injury position is OK ... better than last year but far from perfect
-The new coaching staff are saying all the right things
-Some of our young guys have showed something (i.e. Libba, Cordy, Skinner, Dickson, Dalhaus, Smith, Wallis)
-Minson looks like he is set for a big year
-Lake is definitely in a better position than last year (let's be honest, it could not get any worse)
-The Williams injury is a serious concern
-Cooney's lack of match practice is still a concern albeit he has showed something when he has played
-Griffen looks set to join the absolute elite midfielders in the league (let's hope his wrist is OK)
-We look like we are playing a tougher brand of football
-Good to have the old Shaggy back

[LostDoggy]

How do you rate our pre-season?

Some observations;

-We have been competitive in every match without dominating a match.
-Our injury position is OK ... better than last year but far from perfect
-The new coaching staff are saying all the right things
-Some of our young guys have showed something (i.e. Libba, Cordy, Skinner, Dickson, Dalhaus, Smith, Wallis)
-Minson looks like he is set for a big year
-Lake is definitely in a better position than last year (let's be honest, it could not get any worse)
-The Williams injury is a serious concern
-Cooney's lack of match practice is still a concern albeit he has showed something when he has played
-Griffen looks set to join the absolute elite midfielders in the league (let's hope his wrist is OK)
-We look like we are playing a tougher brand of football
-Good to have the old Shaggy back

Yeah, you've summed it up pretty well.

[LostDoggy]

How do you rate our pre-season?

Some observations;

-We have been competitive in every match without dominating a match.
-Our injury position is OK ... better than last year but far from perfect
-The new coaching staff are saying all the right things
-Some of our young guys have showed something (i.e. Libba, Cordy, Skinner, Dickson, Dalhaus, Smith, Wallis)
-Minson looks like he is set for a big year
-Lake is definitely in a better position than last year (let's be honest, it could not get any worse)
-The Williams injury is a serious concern
-Cooney's lack of match practice is still a concern albeit he has showed something when he has played
-Griffen looks set to join the absolute elite midfielders in the league (let's hope his wrist is OK)
-We look like we are playing a tougher brand of football
-Good to have the old Shaggy back

Do we actually lose much by having Markovich instead of Williams? Their individual strengths and weeknesses don't seem add up much difference in total. We may see more consistency and continuity with Marko there for an extended period. As long as Lake is in there. The loss of Williams plus Morris is the greater concern as it leaves us short of options. Maybe a young tall can fill the breach.

[the banker]

I think it has been satisfying. There are strong indications of individuals improving, the coaching team seems to have made its natural transition. Lakes return is a massive plus let's hope he keeps on the park and improving. Cooney slower but every bit as important. I haven some optimism we may get more than what we were expecting from both of them. Clay Smith and Tom Campbell both presented as strong possibles. Cordy also advanced more than expected. Boyd, Griffen, Gia, will all came back strong. Shaggy came back strong.

All in all I think we are better placed than we thought. Mild optimism not out of place.

Underdogs but a chance in our first two..

[GVGjr]

Do we actually lose much by having Markovich instead of Williams? Their individual strengths and weeknesses don't seem add up much difference in total. We may see more consistency and continuity with Marko there for an extended period. As long as Lake is in there. The loss of Williams plus Morris is the greater concern as it leaves us short of options. Maybe a young tall can fill the breach.

I think we do. Aside from the issue of depth within the squad I think Williams can do better on the opposition better names than Markovic.

[ledge]

I suppose the question is this week GVGjr, with the Eagles do they have one of those better names seeings they have a serious loss to the forward line and Nicovski gone too.
He would be ok on Darling I would think while Lake takes Lynch or visa versa.

[GVGjr]

I suppose the question is this week GVGjr, with the Eagles do they have one of those better names seeings they have a serious loss to the forward line and Nicovski gone too.
He would be ok on Darling I would think while Lake takes Lynch or visa versa.

I think a Hargrave or Wood can cover Darling. The problem for us is if Kennedy is available.

[Pedro Sanchez]

A big plus is seeing Addison playing with some confidence and form. An important player in our team if he can command a spot. Can't beat natural hardness and leaving it to Picken alone is a big ask.

Overall happy with things and looking forward to good season.

[LostDoggy]

A big plus is seeing Addison playing with some confidence and form. An important player in our team if he can command a spot. Can't beat natural hardness and leaving it to Picken alone is a big ask.

Overall happy with things and looking forward to good season.

Every time Addison was free I cringed today. He needs to go
And play baseball or rugby league. Anywhere he can't be impacting our team anyway. I don't doubt his endeavor but he can't play. Pretty simple equation for me :(

[Desipura]

I think a Hargrave or Wood can cover Darling. The problem for us is if Kennedy is available.

With a limited preparation, I am not too concerned about Kennedy as
I do not believe he will be able to run out the game.

[ledge]

With a limited preparation, I am not too concerned about Kennedy as
I do not believe he will be able to run out the game.

Would Addison be ok one of these forwards of WC?

[The Coon Dog]

With a limited preparation, I am not too concerned about Kennedy as
I do not believe he will be able to run out the game.

Nothing more certain now, he'll kick 10! ;) If he does Desi, I'll lay the blame squarely at your feet.

[Go_Dogs]

Would Addison be ok one of these forwards of WC?

Does he perhaps play on Josh Hill?



It's been a solid pre-season and I'm more excited about our prospects now than I was at the close of the 2011 season. Agree with all the points raised in the OP.

[Mofra]

I said 7, could well have been 8.

B-Mac has contested ball winning as his mantra, and we have been winning the contested ball, even when we lose the match. That is worth a pass at least.

I am still very worried about our forwardline set-up - this forum is for the die-hards and you'd probably get 11 opinions on the make up for every 10 posters here.
I think F50 efficiency is going to be an important aspect of our play to watch.

[Hotdog60]

I think our forwards can do a reasonable job this year and will benefit from the experience.

The hurt factor will come from the delivery into the forward half, if we don't put the ball to our advantage it will not score enough to win.

[SonofScray]

We are looking better than I had expected on the back of those pre season games. Injury news has been mostly positive and we've seen the emergence of a few young players who are clearly good enough to make the best 22.

My expectations are much lower, but I have been really pleased with the fact we've got a very visible style change, players are more extroverted in their intent to win the footy, we are niggling and frustrating opponents etc.

Add some scoring prowess to it and we'll make the 8 I think. Without a decent forward set up we might still struggle.

[Rocco Jones]

We are looking better than I had expected on the back of those pre season games. Injury news has been mostly positive and we've seen the emergence of a few young players who are clearly good enough to make the best 22.

My expectations are much lower, but I have been really pleased with the fact we've got a very visible style change, players are more extroverted in their intent to win the footy, we are niggling and frustrating opponents etc.

Add some scoring prowess to it and we'll make the 8 I think. Without a decent forward set up we might still struggle.

Pretty much exactly the same as what I am thinking. The Williams injury on top of Morris being out really hurts as well but I think our game style will help make up for it.

[Maddog37]

I am worried that the nab cup form has got me suckered into thinking we will be ok. We have alot of kids who need to step up.

I think we are quite brittle and a few injuries would expose us.

[bornadog]

I am worried that the nab cup form has got me suckered into thinking we will be ok. We have alot of kids who need to step up.

I think we are quite brittle and a few injuries would expose us.

Yep, they are only practise matches with lots of experimentation, players on and off, playing only half games etc etc. We will know a little more in round one and within the first month of footy the picture will become clearer.

The one thing that to me is abundantly clear, we will struggle to kick big scores.

[GVGjr]

We had a slightly better than a poor pre-season from a NAB cup perspective. We struggled against GWS and weren't up to it against the Pies. In the 2nd round we had a good game against Carlton but we then fell short against North and Geelong. There was nothing to get too excited about from any one player expect for probably Liberatore's form and the return of Hargrave and Lake but at the moment we appear to be a vastly more competitive unit.

I'm not convinced we can keep the scoreboard ticking over enough during the season but lets see if there is more that can be extracted out of this side.

[LostDoggy]

I voted 7 but really it should probably be a 6. Coming in with low expectations and getting a few
pleasant surprises from some players probably inflated my vote higher than it should
be. Has the potential to be a very enjoyable year though, watching the kids develop and
maybe snag a few big scalps along the way. Finals would be a bonus.

[AndrewP6]

I voted 6. Good to see Libba's and Skinner's continued development, and nice to see Lakey back and seemingly in good nick. Like many, I think we'll struggle to put enough majors on the board.

[jazzadogs]

7/10 for me.

Was pretty much what I hoped for from the pre-season.

Experimented by giving most of the list game time, good form from key players (Griffen, Boyd, Cross, Minson, Lake, Libba), stuck to BMac's mantra of contested football, didn't get blown away in any games and (barring Williams) no major injuries.

Only disappointment is that the forward line is still dysfunctional, but we knew that anyway. Won the contested footy count in almost all of our games, which suggests we shouldn't get blown away too often.

[LostDoggy]

If we lose round 1 then I'd rate it 0.
If we win round 1 then 1 and increase it every week by 1 for a win.

How can you really tell? Like to get through uninjured and fully fit.
Whether every one is fully fit, in form and ready is anyones guess.

[Rocco Jones]

If we lose round 1 then I'd rate it 0.
If we win round 1 then 1 and increase it every week by 1 for a win.

How can you really tell? Like to get through uninjured and fully fit.
Whether every one is fully fit, in form and ready is anyones guess.

I think your system has a potential flaw come round 11

[LostDoggy]

7 for me also. We came through mostly unscathed (bar Williams).

We got to see plenty from the kids as already mentioned, Lake and Shaggy looking like their set for a big year. We didn't get flogged, we won plenty of contested possession and came close against both last years Grand Finalists. Can't be discouraged imo.

[bornadog]

I think your system has a potential flaw come round 11

No then he counts backwards so by round 22 we are back to zero because we didn't make the finals:D

[LostDoggy]

I think your system has a potential flaw come round 11

:) only if we go undefeated, each time we lose it resets back to 0.

[immortalmike]

:) only if we go undefeated, each time we lose it resets back to 0.

And if we go through undefeated it'd be worth an 11.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Do we actually lose much by having Markovich instead of Williams? Their individual strengths and weeknesses don't seem add up much difference in total. We may see more consistency and continuity with Marko there for an extended period. As long as Lake is in there. The loss of Williams plus Morris is the greater concern as it leaves us short of options. Maybe a young tall can fill the breach.

I think the main difference between the two is their decision making under pressure. Tommy has really improved in this aspect over the last 2-3 years. With Marko and Addo in the backline i think it makes for some 'Richmond' moments. :eek:

I gave the preseason a 7; i liked the experimentation and committment. My main concern is where are we going to get our run from? Griffin yes, Cooney maybe, then we have Higgins, Sherman, Tutt, Dahlhaus, Howard and maybe Wood. Just putting it out there...

[Remi Moses]

Better than I thought. I reckon a 7 out of 10
We need to load up on silky skilled types in the November draft.
One thing for certain they're going to have a crack!!

[SlimPickens]

I think the main difference between the two is their decision making under pressure. Tommy has really improved in this aspect over the last 2-3 years. With Marko and Addo in the backline i think it makes for some 'Richmond' moments. :eek:.

I'm reasonably confident with the ball in Markos hands, to me he is generally a smart player who uses it well. He seems to know his limitations which is extremely important coming out of defence. Agree with you on Addison.

I gave our preseason a 5, liked what I saw in a number of games and particularly the performances in some of the aforementioned kids. My disappointments were ball uses, issues with spreading from the contests and the injuries (not seeing Tutt, Sherman and obviously the LTI to Williams is not ideal).

[DragzLS1]

I gave our pre season a 9.

Cordy is doing alot better then anybody expected

Minson has stepped it up and looks like he will have a solid year

Our youngsters are winning the contested possesions.

Grant has increased his intencity

Recruits looking good (smith and dickson along with Cambell)

We are always going to have injuries (look at all the other teams) but we have most of those players coming back (Tutt, Sherman and DJ) and some already started (Lake going very well and Cooney slowly getting into it).

We look fit, and unpredictable and over the next month we will learn to spread quicker which comes with fitness and also get some of our passing and accuracy due to regular season pressure.

Everybody is rating us to finish bottom half of the table(12 - 15), if we are in with a chance for top 8 then cant really say we have had a bad pre season can we :) hopefully all this pre season work pays off.

Now bring on West Coast!

[neddie]

I am worried that the nab cup form has got me suckered into thinking we will be ok. We have alot of kids who need to step up.

I think we are quite brittle and a few injuries would expose us.

Nap Cup form was good.Our fowards will struggle against Glass and Co. Glass in particular was outstanding against the Crows.WE are a young side ,well coached,I,m confident we will be OK:):)

[LostDoggy]

If we lose round 1 then I'd rate it 0.
If we win round 1 then 1 and increase it every week by 1 for a win.

How can you really tell? Like to get through uninjured and fully fit.
Whether every one is fully fit, in form and ready is anyones guess.

I guess it all depends on your point of view. A long term point of view would rate our preseason very highly, as the young players have shown something and we're looking OK for the future. A short term, “I just want to win every week and play finals in 2012” point of view is going to rate the preseason about a 3 at most.

We are going to lose the vast majority of matches. Honourable losses perhaps, but the win-loss scorecard is not going to be in our favour.

Short term pain, long term gain.

[bornadog]

I guess it all depends on your point of view. A long term point of view would rate our preseason very highly, as the young players have shown something and we're looking OK for the future. A short term, “I just want to win every week and play finals in 2012” point of view is going to rate the preseason about a 3 at most.

We are going to lose the vast majority of matches. Honourable losses perhaps, but the win-loss scorecard is not going to be in our favour.

Short term pain, long term gain.

But we have had long term pain for a long time:D

[Bulldog Joe]

I guess it all depends on your point of view. A long term point of view would rate our preseason very highly, as the young players have shown something and we're looking OK for the future. A short term, “I just want to win every week and play finals in 2012” point of view is going to rate the preseason about a 3 at most.

We are going to lose the vast majority of matches. Honourable losses perhaps, but the win-loss scorecard is not going to be in our favour.
Short term pain, long term gain.

You must get rid of this pessimism.

There is no reason to concede the season. Get ready for a pleasant surprise as we win 8 of the first 10.

[chef]

You must get rid of this pessimism.

There is no reason to concede the season. Get ready for a pleasant surprise as we win 8 of the first 10.

What have you seen so far that makes you so optimistic about this year?

[Bulldog Joe]

What have you seen so far that makes you so optimistic about this year?

I have regularly posted that I expect us to win 8 of the 1st 10.

This is because our fixture is much kinder than I can recall previously.

The form of Lake, Minson, Griffen, Boyd, Dahlhaus and Libba for some has encouraged me further.

[Mantis]

I gave our pre-season a 3.

Our skills are terrible.

Having injuries to the likes of Sherman, Tutt, DJ, Moles and Cooney rob us having much of an outside game or pace around the ball.

Losing Williams hurts our structure big time as without Morris we are going to struggle to match leading forwards as this type of player isn't suited to Lake or Markovic.

Losing Griffen for any length of time would top it off.

[chef]

I have regularly posted that I expect us to win 8 of the 1st 10.

This is because our fixture is much kinder than I can recall previously.

The form of Lake, Minson, Griffen, Boyd, Dahlhaus and Libba for some has encouraged me further.

Wish I could share your optimism.

[AndrewP6]

You must get rid of this pessimism.

There is no reason to concede the season. Get ready for a pleasant surprise as we win 8 of the first 10.

Will the Tooth Fairy arrive at the same time?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

4 out of 10 for me.
We've lost Williams long term from a defense already missing Morris. Our forward line is very green, save for Gia.

As Mantis mentioned our skills look atrocious, in particular our disposal by foot.
We might be hard at the contest, and doing well in contested footy, but Lord only knows how this will compensate for the fact that we butcher the resulting ball we win, more often than not.

I'm not sold on our drafting approach with Smith. Yep he's tough as teak, but his kicking is defective. I would've been stoked to have picked him or similar type up as a late pick or rookie, but as our first pick?????
Wallis too is causing me to doubt his high selection.

On the plus side, its good to see Shaggy and Lake looking fit and heading in the right direction.
Libba and Dahl also look to be big improvers.
Other than that, I've not seen anything that would give me cause to raise my expectations in the short to medium term.

[Sedat]

I gave our pre-season a 3.

Our skills are terrible.

Having injuries to the likes of Sherman, Tutt, DJ, Moles and Cooney rob us having much of an outside game or pace around the ball.

Losing Williams hurts our structure big time as without Morris we are going to struggle to match leading forwards as this type of player isn't suited to Lake or Markovic.

Losing Griffen for any length of time would top it off.
Tad harsh I would have thought. If you were scoring on skill level alone, then 3 would be on the money. But our contested possession work has been almost elite - we have smashed 2 good midfields at near full strength in the last 2 weeks in this key area. Our run and spread hasn't been there because of the personnel missing, and our distribution of the ball has been undoubtedly sub-par once in space. Defensively we've held our own, with Shaggy and Lake making solid returns, but it has been a big blow losing Williams for 4 months. Our forward line hasn't functioned all that well either, in part due to the haphazard delivery from further upfield.

Add all the elemens together and I'd say our pre-season has been more like a 5 or 6. That still leaves significant scope for improvement in the areas of deficiency already highlighted.

[Bulldog Joe]

Wish I could share your optimism.

My apparent optimism is freely available to all.


Will the Tooth Fairy arrive at the same time?

No .... but if the good fairy arrives for you I can tell you the only thing you need to ask for.

[westbulldog]

How do you rate our pre-season?

Some observations;

-We have been competitive in every match without dominating a match.
-Our injury position is OK ... better than last year but far from perfect
-The new coaching staff are saying all the right things
-Some of our young guys have showed something (i.e. Libba, Cordy, Skinner, Dickson, Dalhaus, Smith, Wallis)
-Minson looks like he is set for a big year
-Lake is definitely in a better position than last year (let's be honest, it could not get any worse)
-The Williams injury is a serious concern
-Cooney's lack of match practice is still a concern albeit he has showed something when he has played
-Griffen looks set to join the absolute elite midfielders in the league (let's hope his wrist is OK)
-We look like we are playing a tougher brand of football
-Good to have the old Shaggy back

I reckon thats a good post angelo and I concur. I also rate Markovic. His style of play is uncomplicated ,he spoils effectively and I think he will develop and improve. Smith has a touch of class about him, give him a dozen games[/I]. Alas from what I have seen, albeit from afar, Grant and Higgins, both highly skilled and both potential matchwinners, are passengers at this point in time.

[Ghost Dog]

Certain players look a bit stronger. Skinner, Cordy all look like they belong. Love the way Skinner celebrates his goals. Yeah! need a bit more of that.
Ballarat was a great opportunity to sit at the boundary and see the players up close.
Really shocked at our kicking skills. Even in the warm up - shanking them all over the joint. Maybe it was just a bad day.
I don't really know how Hooper sits. He looks less tubby but does not seem to have improved much otherwise.
I'm not sure it is possible for Grant to get any bigger. His kicking is a big knock on his otherwise good efforts.
Love the new ethos of the coach. ' look after your younger mates'.
Not sure the team has had enough practice matches. Seemed to be a lot of confusion in Ballarat which resulted in some shocking turnovers. I guess that's what the NAB is for.
We have a midfield that does not tend to have a natural flair with the ball. I guess we have to accept this now and work to our limits in that area. Poor Tom. Just can't get a straight run at it.

[Mantis]

Tad harsh I would have thought. If you were scoring on skill level alone, then 3 would be on the money. But our contested possession work has been almost elite - we have smashed 2 good midfields at near full strength in the last 2 weeks in this key area. Our run and spread hasn't been there because of the personnel missing, and our distribution of the ball has been undoubtedly sub-par once in space. Defensively we've held our own, with Shaggy and Lake making solid returns, but it has been a big blow losing Williams for 4 months. Our forward line hasn't functioned all that well either, in part due to the haphazard delivery from further upfield.

Add all the elemens together and I'd say our pre-season has been more like a 5 or 6. That still leaves significant scope for improvement in the areas of deficiency already highlighted.

See I didn't see our contested work as being an area of great weakness so I'm not sure why such a massive focus has been placed on it.

For me the areas of concern were our inability to use the ball effectively, our forward set up and our inability to force turn overs. While our defensive efforts have been better, our skills look worse and our forward line set up is anyone's guess.

Perhaps 3 was harsh, but I don't believe our pre season has reached a pass mark, but if we start the season well all will be forgotten and forgiven.

[stefoid]

See I didn't see our contested work as being an area of great weakness so I'm not sure why such a massive focus has been placed on it.

For me the areas of concern were our inability to use the ball effectively, our forward set up and our inability to force turn overs. While our defensive efforts have been better, our skills look worse and our forward line set up is anyone's guess.

Perhaps 3 was harsh, but I don't believe our pre season has reached a pass mark, but if we start the season well all will be forgotten and forgiven.

Mantis I think in previous years, certain players shouldered too much of the contested workload, mac is trying to make sure we get a 100% solid and even contribution in the future.

And it looks to me like the emphasis is not so much on winning the hardball as clearing it effectively and under pressure. I think in the past this has been an area of weakness for us - where our clearances were technically clearances - as in getting the ball clear of the stoppage - but in reality they were poor quality and almost imemdaitely resulted in another contest and possible turnover or new stoppage, rather than a genuine forward thrust.

Effective clearances is a different thing to moving the ball forward and decent footskills IMO, but its also a pre-requisite. Get an effective clearance = to someone with a little time and space to move it downfield usefully, and thats half the battle.

And I reckon we are doing that better, but maybe our decision making and footskills once we get the ball clear is lacking due to personel and the fact that we have spent so much of our preseason concentrating on effective clearances (and preventing opposition effective clearances) that our ball movement has suffered.

But thas cool, you got to put the horse before the cart. Or as someone said, work from the inside out.

I think the first half of the year is going to see us in a lot of scrappy, low scoring contests where we beat up on rubbish teams and lose manfully to top 4 contenders, and then towards the end of the year, it might start clicking for us and we will give some top teams a real shake as our decision making and skills improve.

[Dazza]

I've really enjoyed the pre season so far.

Apart from our kicking skills we are probably ahead of where I'd thought we'd be this season.

Watching Ayce cordy go around and look like a genuine AFL player has been the highlight for me.

[Ghost Dog]

Mantis I think in previous years, certain players shouldered too much of the contested workload, mac is trying to make sure we get a 100% solid and even contribution in the future.

And it looks to me like the emphasis is not so much on winning the hardball as clearing it effectively and under pressure. I think in the past this has been an area of weakness for us - where our clearances were technically clearances - as in getting the ball clear of the stoppage - but in reality they were poor quality and almost imemdaitely resulted in another contest and possible turnover or new stoppage, rather than a genuine forward thrust.

Effective clearances is a different thing to moving the ball forward and decent footskills IMO, but its also a pre-requisite. Get an effective clearance = to someone with a little time and space to move it downfield usefully, and thats half the battle.

And I reckon we are doing that better, but maybe our decision making and footskills once we get the ball clear is lacking due to personel and the fact that we have spent so much of our preseason concentrating on effective clearances (and preventing opposition effective clearances) that our ball movement has suffered.

But thas cool, you got to put the horse before the cart. Or as someone said, work from the inside out.

I think the first half of the year is going to see us in a lot of scrappy, low scoring contests where we beat up on rubbish teams and lose manfully to top 4 contenders, and then towards the end of the year, it might start clicking for us and we will give some top teams a real shake as our decision making and skills improve.

there are some good observations there. Also - has anyone else noticed when opposition players try to pull any off the ball stuff, players are rushing right in there to fly the flag. Noticed Liam Jones, some other younger players doing more of this so far - as if a specific instruction. good on you boys.

[Mantis]

Mantis I think in previous years, certain players shouldered too much of the contested workload, mac is trying to make sure we get a 100% solid and even contribution in the future.

And it looks to me like the emphasis is not so much on winning the hardball as clearing it effectively and under pressure. I think in the past this has been an area of weakness for us - where our clearances were technically clearances - as in getting the ball clear of the stoppage - but in reality they were poor quality and almost imemdaitely resulted in another contest and possible turnover or new stoppage, rather than a genuine forward thrust.

Effective clearances is a different thing to moving the ball forward and decent footskills IMO, but its also a pre-requisite. Get an effective clearance = to someone with a little time and space to move it downfield usefully, and thats half the battle.

And I reckon we are doing that better, but maybe our decision making and footskills once we get the ball clear is lacking due to personel and the fact that we have spent so much of our preseason concentrating on effective clearances (and preventing opposition effective clearances) that our ball movement has suffered.

But thas cool, you got to put the horse before the cart. Or as someone said, work from the inside out.

So we go into the season with no idea of how we are going to move the ball effectively because as I pointed out we haven't had our 'outside' players running around to practice our ball movement patterns.

Instead we have the likes of Wallis, Smith, Boyd & Cross kicking it all over the place and undoing the good work of winning the ball in the first place.


I think the first half of the year is going to see us in a lot of scrappy, low scoring contests where we beat up on rubbish teams and lose manfully to top 4 contenders, and then towards the end of the year, it might start clicking for us and we will give some top teams a real shake as our decision making and skills improve.

The only 'rubbish' teams we play in the first 10 rounds are GWS & GC (are they the rubbish ones??), but both games are played interstate and while I expect us to have a good win against GWS I expect a pretty close clash against GC... much like last years game up there.

And I can't see it clicking this year, we just don't have the manpower just yet.

[dog town]

The biggest positive for me is that I can see a definitive game plan coming together that the players appear to be buying in to.

Some of the basic positioning and even things like where you receive the ball we appear to be better drilled at.

The skill level has been a let down but I can only remember one pre season where I went in thinking we were moving the ball brilliantly. We got smashed by Colliingwood in Round 1 that year so I will reserve judgement.

Williams is a huge blow.

Would have liked to have seen a bit more out of Grant and Jones.

[Ghost Dog]

The biggest positive for me is that I can see a definitive game plan coming together that the players appear to be buying in to.

Some of the basic positioning and even things like where you receive the ball we appear to be better drilled at.

The skill level has been a let down but I can only remember one pre season where I went in thinking we were moving the ball brilliantly. We got smashed by Colliingwood in Round 1 that year so I will reserve judgement.

Williams is a huge blow.

Would have liked to have seen a bit more out of Grant and Jones.

Oh I don't really see this at all. Don't get me wrong, I am optimistic. Despite the rhetoric however, the first NAB games I saw showed just lacked flow all the time. But physicality of the players looked good. Also didn't hear as much calling to each other as I expected.
It will take time for newer players to be trusted with the ball. Noticed at Ballarat, skinner more than once made great position, only to be ignored.
The biggest thing for me coming out of pre-season is Brian. He's back, master and commander of the backline. looked outstanding on field and it was worth the trip to Ballarat just to see him.

[stefoid]

So we go into the season with no idea of how we are going to move the ball effectively because as I pointed out we haven't had our 'outside' players running around to practice our ball movement patterns.

Instead we have the likes of Wallis, Smith, Boyd & Cross kicking it all over the place and undoing the good work of winning the ball in the first place.
.

Pretty much, yeah. If you're going to emphasise one thing you must be placing less emphasis on something else.

Seems we are focussing on winning and clearing the ball, and getting the ball back when we dont have it. A house needs a solid foundation and all of that.

[Mofra]

Seems we are focussing on winning and clearing the ball, and getting the ball back when we dont have it. A house needs a solid foundation and all of that.
That's where we will all reate things differently - some will rate the pre-season according to meeting the objectives set out at the start of the pre-season, some will have their own idea on what weakness we need to address as a team.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

We had a slightly better than a poor pre-season from a NAB cup perspective. We struggled against GWS and weren't up to it against the Pies. In the 2nd round we had a good game against Carlton but we then fell short against North and Geelong. There was nothing to get too excited about from any one player expect for probably Liberatore's form and the return of Hargrave and Lake but at the moment we appear to be a vastly more competitive unit.

I'm not convinced we can keep the scoreboard ticking over enough during the season but lets see if there is more that can be extracted out of this side.

Without question our forward line poses the biggest problem. We still haven't found a replacement for Barry Hall which maybe BMcC's way of looking to share the spoils in the hope we can still kick winning scores. A lot will depend on Grant stepping up and a Dickson or Skinner proving themselves to be better than average forwards. Liberatore has been very good and will go some of the way to covering the loss of Ward in the midfield. I hope that Roughead can take the next step as he is capable of being good overhead in attack as he was able to show against Geelong last week. I similarly have been impressed with their hardness at the ball in contested ball around the ground which augers well.

[LostDoggy]

We were such a skillful side in some of those prelim years, it's a shame we've dropped away so much in that area, partly because the game has simply changed and also some of our best ball users from that era are now either retired, have faded quite a bit, or are more injury prone.

However, my biggest sign that we were no longer a force was when we lost the contested possession count to GC17 in the first couple of rounds last year (despite handing out a 70 point belting). The score simply papered over the cracks that were so cruelly exposed over the rest of the year.

If we can win the contested possession count, even if we are crap by foot (and let's face it, we are), we give ourselves options with first use of the ball in terms of what kind of game we want to implement. At the very least, it will mean less blowouts as a contested ball winning side can shut a game down if necessary. It also means that we limit the other side's ability to impose their game on us, so we can actually mitigate our backline being outclassed sometimes (as will be the case in Round 1). This all means nothing if we keep turning the ball over, of course, so at some point we'll need to get precision into our game.

HOWEVER -- I don't think we can read anything into the contested possession stats of the NAB cup. We've clearly made it a priority, while other teams may be trying to protect themselves from injury, so there's not a lot that can be taken out of it. Still remains to be seen if our contested possession stats translate into the season proper.

[dog town]

Oh I don't really see this at all. Don't get me wrong, I am optimistic. Despite the rhetoric however, the first NAB games I saw showed just lacked flow all the time. But physicality of the players looked good. Also didn't hear as much calling to each other as I expected.
It will take time for newer players to be trusted with the ball. Noticed at Ballarat, skinner more than once made great position, only to be ignored.
The biggest thing for me coming out of pre-season is Brian. He's back, master and commander of the backline. looked outstanding on field and it was worth the trip to Ballarat just to see him. I guess we all see different things. The first game that I saw live this pre season was the first time I have known what we were trying to do for a long time. It was pretty distinctive to me. I have only seen 2 games though.

[westbulldog]

I share Ghost Dog's comment that The biggest thing for me coming out of pre-season is Brian. He's back, master and commander of the backline. looked outstanding on field and it was worth the trip to Ballarat just to see him.
. Brian Lake prior to his injury plagued 2011 was IMO the best fullback in the country, it is great to see him re-capturing some of that form and I wish him well for the coming season.

[jeemak]

We were such a skillful side in some of those prelim years, it's a shame we've dropped away so much in that area, partly because the game has simply changed and also some of our best ball users from that era are now either retired, have faded quite a bit, or are more injury prone.

However, my biggest sign that we were no longer a force was when we lost the contested possession count to GC17 in the first couple of rounds last year (despite handing out a 70 point belting). The score simply papered over the cracks that were so cruelly exposed over the rest of the year.

If we can win the contested possession count, even if we are crap by foot (and let's face it, we are), we give ourselves options with first use of the ball in terms of what kind of game we want to implement. At the very least, it will mean less blowouts as a contested ball winning side can shut a game down if necessary. It also means that we limit the other side's ability to impose their game on us, so we can actually mitigate our backline being outclassed sometimes (as will be the case in Round 1). This all means nothing if we keep turning the ball over, of course, so at some point we'll need to get precision into our game.

HOWEVER -- I don't think we can read anything into the contested possession stats of the NAB cup. We've clearly made it a priority, while other teams may be trying to protect themselves from injury, so there's not a lot that can be taken out of it. Still remains to be seen if our contested possession stats translate into the season proper.

I can't buy into the bolded comment. All sides in the pre-season (maybe apart from our set of dominators in 2010 :o) go in with bad skills and ball movement issues, though each and every player with exception to a few old timers know that the best way to demonstrate commitment to the coaching staff in preparation for round one is by going hard at it, and winning the ball. Our contested ball efforts need to be commended.

The point you raise about use by foot is an interesting one though. Many goals are scored on the back of turnovers, and less and less winning contested possession is going to be a means to even up the game IMO. With the game changing towards moving players forward to create a press in your offensive half to stifle opposition movement from defense, a turnover by foot in close is more likely to result in a goal scored against you on the fast break. It's at a point where only the teams that have good foot skills can be relied upon to hang on to the ball, and stop the easy goals from turnovers in the offensive half.

In lieu of our poor footskills I wouldn't be too surprised to see us play a softer press than a few of the hard pressing teams, and keep a few numbers available in the midfield and a bit behind that ready to block space in defense in case a turnover is created in our forward half.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

In lieu of our poor footskills I wouldn't be too surprised to see us play a softer press than a few of the hard pressing teams, and keep a few numbers available in the midfield and a bit behind that ready to block space in defense in case a turnover is created in our forward half.

I'm not sure if you saw the game against Geelong jeemak, butyou're right -- this is exactly what we were doing. A lot of our mids/half forwards were set up across that middle square of the ground. Roughly about 70m out from our attacking goal and 70m out from our defensive goal. This meant a couple of things:

1) We were out-numbered in our forward half. Long bombs to Jones/Roughead/Minson didn't work. Football is a numbers game, so naturally 2 v 4 etc. loses. Also, because we were out numbered, this often meant that around the 50-70m mark, we kept chipping the ball around to no advantage because we knew we couldn't kick it long.

2) Even though we had the bulk of our numbers from half forward to half back, Geelong were able to move the ball through the corridor with ease at times. They ran in waves from the back half with handball. A few times, two of our players would run to the player with the ball, creating space behind them for Geelong receivers to run into. At times, we also set up too wide, giving Geelong space in the corridor. This didn't work either, as Geelong rarely go down the wings. Geelogn really could have hammered us, they did have 9 more scoring opportunities)

Some things to work on. As I said in a previous thread, I can personally see us copping some floggings from sides with skill that use the corridor. We were very good in the contest, but our spread is poor. It will be interesting to see how our press develops. It looked really bad v Geelong at times, and yet other times, they got the balance between attack and defense right.

[jeemak]

No I didn't see the game, I just think the natural thing to do if you can't hang on to the ball going forward with short passing is not risk leaving your entire back half open.

It troubles me to learn that we could possibly set up too wide at Kardinia! The ground is much to narrow to fall into that trap, and the only space that should be conceded there is wide against square boundaries that leave very little room for error. From watching that particular game can you put it down to a new set up, if we had have pressed harder do you think the corridor would have been openned ever further?

The bi-product you mention is of course, not having enough players to contest the ball up forward, forcing us to chip the ball laterally rather than through or over the defense. I wouldn't be surprised if BMac tries to employ a very considered forward moving game plan that doesn't see us bomb or take higher risk short options. I fear we're likely to see some frustrating lateral short kicking football this year.

Having said that, I'd much rather see us hang on to the footy rather than do all the hard work to get it, only to slam it on the boot to low probability options.

[LostDoggy]

Having said that, I'd much rather see us hang on to the footy rather than do all the hard work to get it, only to slam it on the boot to low probability options.

This. I think it's what I meant when I said winning the contested count let's you have options in terms of how you want to play the game. If we win it we can then chip it around, but you have to have the ball in the first place to do this.

I actually don't mind chipping the ball around ad nauseum. It's probably my soccer background talking, but if you have possession the other side can't score, and if we can keep our discipline, teams don't like being out of possession too long so will start getting desperate and taking risks to get the ball back, which may open up opportunities to exploit.

I guess the big factor in this is how much supporters will hate the style of play. I still hear Saints fans hating Ross Lyon for his low-scoring gameplan despite him taking them to 2.5 grand finals, and some who even said that they would still hate him even if they had won both flags.

[DragzLS1]

This. I think it's what I meant when I said winning the contested count let's you have options in terms of how you want to play the game. If we win it we can then chip it around, but you have to have the ball in the first place to do this.

I actually don't mind chipping the ball around ad nauseum. It's probably my soccer background talking, but if you have possession the other side can't score, and if we can keep our discipline, teams don't like being out of possession too long so will start getting desperate and taking risks to get the ball back, which may open up opportunities to exploit.

I guess the big factor in this is how much supporters will hate the style of play. I still hear Saints fans hating Ross Lyon for his low-scoring gameplan despite him taking them to 2.5 grand finals, and some who even said that they would still hate him even if they had won both flags.

I agree and seeing I also have a soccer backround I know how important it is to have possession and control the game. Although I dont think we will play a St Kilda style. We may chip it around until it creates holes (other team gets desperate to win possesion back) which then needs precision with accurate kicking and runs that will carve up the other team. Lets hold possession and wait for an opening instead of bombing it long every time. Geelong do this at certain stages of the game and quite a few times last season came from behind to win the game (happend atleast 3 times throughout the season).

I think we will do very good in the contested possessions this season and think our let down will be that precise kicking I am talking about in tight games where a turn over will hurt. Our spread is not too bad and players running to support but if we can improve our hitting targets on the lead or in tight spots going into the forward 50 then we will be a dangerous side this year! Everything else is on track imo

[BulldogBelle]

I agree and seeing I also have a soccer backround I know how important it is to have possession and control the game. Although I dont think we will play a St Kilda style. We may chip it around until it creates holes (other team gets desperate to win possesion back) which then needs precision with accurate kicking and runs that will carve up the other team. Lets hold possession and wait for an opening instead of bombing it long every time. Geelong do this at certain stages of the game and quite a few times last season came from behind to win the game (happend atleast 3 times throughout the season).

I think we will do very good in the contested possessions this season and think our let down will be that precise kicking I am talking about in tight games where a turn over will hurt. Our spread is not too bad and players running to support but if we can improve our hitting targets on the lead or in tight spots going into the forward 50 then we will be a dangerous side this year! Everything else is on track imo




Fingers crossed as the season progresses our skills will improve from the increased match time and skills training under pressure

This preseason we didnt have the benefit of playing Tutt, Djurkera and Sherman who are 3 of our genuine outside players, so with those guys our run and spread will improve marginally

My concern is where are our goals going to come from

If our permanent forwards Grant, Gia, Jones and possibly Dickson can all kick > 1.5 goals per game each this season each i'd be over the moon. Gia is the only one who i'd have faith to do so based on current form.

Add Cooney to the forward line in a Steve Johnson type role and we look somewhat more dangerous going forward

[LostDoggy]

In theory , with Libba almost a top shelf inside mid already, along with Boyd, Cross, Smith, Picken etc at the coalface, this should free up Griff to play a much more outside role.
He has such a penetrating kick, and is very hard to tackle on the burst .
Add Cooney , Dollhouse, Sherman, Tutt etc running through there, we do have some real pace, and some good ball users in that group. We should be fine on the spread , in theory.