Ben Cousins again

[ledge]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/ben-cousins-arrested-on-drug-charges-report/story-fn7x8me2-1226312754015

Sadly its not improving, became a dad recently didnt he?

I was hoping that might have helped him and give him another direction in life.

[ledge]

With all this happening i have one question how did he stay off it for 2 years at the tigers?

[GVGjr]

With all this happening i have one question how did he stay off it for 2 years at the tigers?

It's a huge task for him to stay off them but maybe the routine of football at the Tigers, the support structure around him and the focus by the AFL and the media etc contributed to a more healthier Cousins.

I guess this is a an ongoing work in progress for him and that he will slip up from time to time for a long while yet. It must be heartbreaking for his family.

[Maddog37]

Sad. Ice etc is just a blight on humanity.

[ledge]

It's a huge task for him to stay off them but maybe the routine of football at the Tigers, the support structure around him and the focus by the AFL and the media etc contributed to a more healthier Cousins.

I guess this is a an ongoing work in progress for him and that he will slip up from time to time for a long while yet. It must be heartbreaking for his family.

From what I just read somewhere it seems it was an amount enough to be charged with importing and selling, not just his own use.

With him being all over the papers for near on 2 years about his addiction you imagine the last place he would have drugs would be at an airport.

[Greystache]

From what I just read somewhere it seems it was an amount enough to be charged with importing and selling, not just his own use.

With him being all over the papers for near on 2 years about his addiction you imagine the last place he would have drugs would be at an airport.

The amount of a drug a seasoned addict would use would be the equivalent of what would normally be considered a trafficable quantity.

Anyway lets stick to the Cousins aspect of this story.

[ledge]

The amount of a drug a seasoned addict would use would be the equivalent of what would normally be considered a trafficable quantity.

Anyway lets stick to the Cousins aspect of this story.

Well this time they have gone the trafficking charge it seems.

[chef]

Something he is going to have to deal with for the rest of his life unfortunately. Hopefully his will power is strong enough for the sake of his child.

[AndrewP6]

Just so sad the guy is so messed up. Let's not forget, he's also someone's brother, son and now, father.

[comrade]

Something he is going to have to deal with for the rest of his life unfortunately. Hopefully his will power is strong enough for the sake of his child.

Clearly it's not.

[Desipura]

Something he is going to have to deal with for the rest of his life unfortunately. Hopefully his will power is strong enough for the sake of his child.

He is coming from too far back regarding his addiction. Was reported he has been on drugs since he was 17 yo.

[jeemak]

I think a lot of people who have watched the story wanted the saga to be done and dusted by the time he finished up with competitive football.

Ice, amongst other drugs doesn't allow for that and Cousins is in a lot of trouble beyond what the judicial system in WA may or may not determine to be an adequate punishment.

As far as the charges he's facing are concerned, it's hard to know how seriously the intent to supply aspect will be taken until more comes out in the wash.

[Ghost Dog]

He is coming from too far back regarding his addiction. Was reported he has been on drugs since he was 17 yo.

That's a real blow for his family. Cruel for his many supporters; especially in the west and down there at tigerland.

[westdog54]

The amount of a drug a seasoned addict would use would be the equivalent of what would normally be considered a trafficable quantity.


If he has been charged with trafficking it would be based on more than just the quantity located.

[jeemak]

If he has been charged with trafficking it would be based on more than just the quantity located.

westdog54, are you sure? I've heard WA's intent to supply and trafficing are a little more onerous than other states (appreciate your username might infer you're from WA, so happy to be educated)?

[westdog54]

westdog54, are you sure? I've heard WA's intent to supply and trafficing are a little more onerous than other states (appreciate your username might infer you're from WA, so happy to be educated)?

No, I'm a Victorian Copper.

Not sure on legislation in WA but you have to have some sort of evidence of trafficking beyond the quantity in your possession (unless its an exceptionally large quantity, see below). You'd want to also find him with things like deal bags, scales, cutting agents, that sort of stuff, before you'd consider going after him for trafficking, unless he's made admissions in an interview.

Having said that, the Drugs Poisons and Controlled Substances Act also has defined Traffickable, Commercial and Large Commercial quantities of illegal substances. It would have to be a significant amount to prove a charge of trafficking.

[Sockeye Salmon]

They have been watching him for 8 months.

[SlimPickens]

No, I'm a Victorian Copper.

Not sure on legislation in WA but you have to have some sort of evidence of trafficking beyond the quantity in your possession (unless its an exceptionally large quantity, see below). You'd want to also find him with things like deal bags, scales, cutting agents, that sort of stuff, before you'd consider going after him for trafficking, unless he's made admissions in an interview.

Having said that, the Drugs Poisons and Controlled Substances Act also has defined Traffickable, Commercial and Large Commercial quantities of illegal substances. It would have to be a significant amount to prove a charge of trafficking.

Being reported that he had 4 grams on him, is that a substantial amount?

[chef]

Clearly it's not.

It's not ATM, but I've seen people come back from a lot worse places then Ben. We have a Teen Challenge here in Ky and they do fantastic work(Gary Ablett spent a fair bit of time there), but he has to want to change first.

[chef]

Being reported that he had 4 grams on him, is that a substantial amount?

I thought it was reported as over 4 grams.

[SlimPickens]

I thought it was reported as over 4 grams.

From the HUN "found carrying four grams", doesn't really matter.

[SlimPickens]

Just a horrible situation for Ben and family. The guy clearly needs help and the appropriate support structure around him.

Hopefully he is back in rehab before he is due in court.

[Maddog37]

Stashed in his rectum on the way to a rehab centre. Seems he was undermining himself in a big way.

[LostDoggy]

Just so sad the guy is so messed up. Let's not forget, he's also someone's brother, son and now, father.

So true Andrew - I think if you ask most addicts (be it drugs/alcohol) they would tell you they don't really wanted to be addicted! Incredibly sad now that he has a little one!

[Murphy'sLore]

So sad. Everyone wanted this story to have a happy ending - I guess that's still possible, it just seems a whole lot further away now.

[westdog54]

Being reported that he had 4 grams on him, is that a substantial amount?

2 Grams is a commercial quantity.

[Hotdog60]

Over Ben Cousins.......


The parents arer the ones suffering here and their son a DH who can't help himself.

[jeemak]

I found it pathetic that CH7 felt the need to get in his face at Perth Airport on Wendnesday (of Thursday, can't recall).

Firstly, the last thing I'd want to be doing for a job is antagonise and follow a meth addict with a microphone and camera. Particularly if the meth addict happened to have been stripped of over four grams of meth, arrested and charged with serious criminal offences. Asking for trouble IMO.

Secondly, the guy is clearly very ill. At what stage does the media say enough's enough?

[AndrewP6]

I found it pathetic that CH7 felt the need to get in his face at Perth Airport on Wendnesday (of Thursday, can't recall).

Firstly, the last thing I'd want to be doing for a job is antagonise and follow a meth addict with a microphone and camera. Particularly if the meth addict happened to have been stripped of over four grams of meth, arrested and charged with serious criminal offences. Asking for trouble IMO.

Secondly, the guy is clearly very ill. At what stage does the media say enough's enough?

Spot on. Their constant harassment of Cousins (and anyone else they are after a story on) is disgusting. I saw that and was kind of hoping he did lash out at them, they would have deserved it. Apparently he told one oin the plane she could ask two questions (which he then answered). But for the parasites following him, that wasn't enough:mad:

In answer to your next question, they likely won't stop until he's six feet under.:mad: And then they'll probably write about what a champion he was.Your right they are pathetic.

[ledge]

Spot on. Their constant harassment of Cousins (and anyone else they are after a story on) is disgusting. I saw that and was kind of hoping he did lash out at them, they would have deserved it. Apparently he told one oin the plane she could ask two questions (which he then answered). But for the parasites following him, that wasn't enough:mad:

In answer to your next question, they likely won't stop until he's six feet under.:mad: And then they'll probably write about what a champion he was.Your right they are pathetic.

He has to expect it, he has made big money out of the media, if you use it for your advantage at times you have to take the good with the bad.

Especially when he made a special about his drug addiction that was so popular people want to know the next episode.

Cold facts are if he doesnt want the media around him its too late when he is a human headline created by himself.

[AndrewP6]

Over Ben Cousins.......


The parents arer the ones suffering here and their son a DH who can't help himself.

A bit simplistic to say he "can't help himself". And the media, by doing this sort of thing, only make it worse for his parents.

As for being over him, welcome to the mainstream media's MO. Find someone, who for one reason or another, is in strife. Then hound them incessantly, until they reach, or come near to breaking point. Then go back to HQ and write a "story" of how he/she is at breaking point, or how they exploded into a fit of anger. Then having pecked at them like vultures, call yourself a journalist, and receive kudos for breaking the big story. Ben isn't calling the media and asking them to follow his every move.

[Eastdog]

Ben Cousins as we all know was a great player of course winning a Brownlow and a premiership but outside of football it has been a disaster for him. Cousins clearly needs help with this drug problem. Hopefully for himself and his family it can have a good ending like Murphy'sLore said. I heard though that it was possible that he could go to jail for up to 25 years but is that really the place where he should be? What happened with his rehab?

[Murphy'sLore]

Wasn't he on the way to rehab when he was caught this time? Which suggests he hasn't been taking it as seriously as he should be (to put it mildly).

[AndrewP6]

He has to expect it, he has made big money out of the media, if you use it for your advantage at times you have to take the good with the bad.

Especially when he made a special about his drug addiction that was so popular people want to know the next episode.

Cold facts are if he doesnt want the media around him its too late when he is a human headline created by himself.

Sorry but thats rubbish. The facts are that he's a retired footballer, and like many in the community, has a serious illness which he clearly is struggling to deal with. He made the special to highlight the dangers of drugs, and the public treated it like they were watching a soap opera, not a real story on the the horrific effects of drug addiction. Why is it his fault the public are so bloodthirsty they wanted another "episode"? Thats more of an indictment of the society we live in that people take joy out of the misery of others. And make no mistake, no one with an addiction is happy about it.

"It's too late"? Why is that? He's long been retired. He has the right, as he's not involved in sport, media to some privacy. But the vultures will surround him, until it actually is too late, then they'll eulogise him. Pathetic.

[G-Mo77]

Over Ben Cousins.......


The parents arer the ones suffering here and their son a DH who can't help himself.

This.

If it was an everyday person no one would care. Choice's are made in life if you make the bad one's it's on you. People try to steer you in the right direction if you continue to go the wrong way it's on you. People who don't want to be helped can't and Cousins fits that mold. Cousins has been given more help than most addicts and still continues down this path. I don't know why people should feel sorry for him.

[ledge]

Sorry but thats rubbish. The facts are that he's a retired footballer, and like many in the community, has a serious illness which he clearly is struggling to deal with. He made the special to highlight the dangers of drugs, and the public treated it like they were watching a soap opera, not a real story on the the horrific effects of drug addiction. Why is it his fault the public are so bloodthirsty they wanted another "episode"? Thats more of an indictment of the society we live in that people take joy out of the misery of others. And make no mistake, no one with an addiction is happy about it.

"It's too late"? Why is that? He's long been retired. He has the right, as he's not involved in sport, media to some privacy. But the vultures will surround him, until it actually is too late, then they'll eulogise him. Pathetic.

Because thats how it is.
And the media know it makes a story people will read and so does Ben.
Facts are he is a human headline built by the media and himself.
And yes they probably will eulogise him.

I didnt say it was right its just how it is and what to expect.
Flying in a plane with drugs being who he is and who he was, of course the media are going to be vultures its their job.
He is a live well known drug addict, the story will always be there until he conquers it (then its a feel good story) or if it all gets worse.

Its sad he is a drug addict, the whole affair is sad but he has no doubt had the best chances to get out of it too, he wont get the support he had at footy clubs because he isnt involved anymore.
Maybe prison time could help i dont know but the fact is he is a good story of following a drug addict and anything to do with it the vultures will be there he has to accept this.

[ledge]

Sorry but thats rubbish. The facts are that he's a retired footballer, and like many in the community, has a serious illness which he clearly is struggling to deal with. He made the special to highlight the dangers of drugs, and the public treated it like they were watching a soap opera, not a real story on the the horrific effects of drug addiction. Why is it his fault the public are so bloodthirsty they wanted another "episode"? Thats more of an indictment of the society we live in that people take joy out of the misery of others. And make no mistake, no one with an addiction is happy about it.

"It's too late"? Why is that? He's long been retired. He has the right, as he's not involved in sport, media to some privacy. But the vultures will surround him, until it actually is too late, then they'll eulogise him. Pathetic.

you answered your own question.

[AndrewP6]

This.
If it was an everyday person no one would care.

Nonsense. Maybe you wouldn't, maybe many wouldn't, but there are people that do.


Choice's are made in life if you make the bad one's it's on you. People try to steer you in the right direction if you continue to go the wrong way it's on you. People who don't want to be helped can't and Cousins fits that mold. Cousins has been given more help than most addicts and still continues down this path. I don't know why people should feel sorry for him.

Because he has an illness. He is a father, a son, a brother and a human being. Heaven help anyone who had/has a loved one in a similar situation. What's wrong with thinking about and feeling compassion for others?

Humankind really bothers me sometimes.

[AndrewP6]

you answered your own question.

Your responses say a lot about the world we live in today. No wonder people are trying to find ways to escape, with heartless, cynical people surrounding them every where they turn.

[G-Mo77]

Because he has an illness. He is a father, a son, a brother and a human being. Heaven help anyone who had/has a loved one in a similar situation. What's wrong with thinking about and feeling compassion for others?

Humankind really bothers me sometimes.

I feel compassion for those who deserve it. I feel compassion for the people that live with the threat of bombs falling on their homes every day, I feel compassion for the same people being treated like viruses when they try to flee their homes in search of a better life, I feel compassion for the starving, I feel compassion for the poor, I feel compassion for people who have lost loved ones and homes from fires, floods earthquakes etc. I could keep going.

What I don't have is compassion for someone who has had the world at his feet continued to make really bad choices and with all the help he has had continued to do the same.

[Eastdog]

Even though Cousins is very well known in the footballing world the media should not be reporting all the time on his drug problems. This issue is a personal one for him and for anyone else going through what he is going through well known or not as well known. That being said for who he is he will get media attention but at the end of the day he is not made from marble and granite he is human.

[AndrewP6]

I feel compassion for those who deserve it. I feel compassion for the people that live with the threat of bombs falling on their homes every day, I feel compassion for the same people being treated like viruses when they try to flee their homes in search of a better life, I feel compassion for the starving, I feel compassion for the poor, I feel compassion for people who have lost loved ones and homes from fires, floods earthquakes etc. I could keep going.

What I don't have is compassion for someone who has had the world at his feet continued to make really bad choices and with all the help he has had continued to do the same.

So you can't accept he has an illness?

[G-Mo77]

So you can't accept he has an illness?

So did he have an illness when he first tried drugs?

[JohnGentStand]

sub-editors have got it so easy.....

Bad Boy Benny Bolts on Bail for Bumming Banned Booty

[ledge]

Even though Cousins is very well known in the footballing world the media should not be reporting all the time on his drug problems. This issue is a personal one for him and for anyone else going through what he is going through well known or not as well known. That being said for who he is he will get media attention but at the end of the day he is not made from marble and granite he is human.

He did make a special on his drug addiction for everyone to see,for good intention no doubt but doing that has now made it media attention and brought it to the publics attention, of course he is going to be watched in the future especially if he goes the wrong way.

The football side of him has finished its the drug problem that is now in the spotlight and how it pans out, I think most people would hope to see a good ending but its just not happening at the moment.
Either way it goes he will be harrassed by media due to his coming out in a special he decided to do.

[Before I Die]

So you can't accept he has an illness?

You could pose the same question about every repeat offender of any crime. Clearly he has an illness. But does that mean he warrants pity or compassion? I have pity for him, though much more for his family and the others who he has hurt around him. I also believe he has been protected for far too long by others who stood to gain from his prowess and it is time he experienced some real and personal repercussions from his actions.

[Ghost Dog]

He did make a special on his drug addiction for everyone to see,for good intention no doubt but doing that has now made it media attention and brought it to the publics attention, of course he is going to be watched in the future especially if he goes the wrong way.

The football side of him has finished its the drug problem that is now in the spotlight and how it pans out, I think most people would hope to see a good ending but its just not happening at the moment.
Either way it goes he will be harrassed by media due to his coming out in a special he decided to do.

Disagree on that. he could become a fitness coach or given an opportunity to contribute in some minor way that would keep him busy. Demetriou and others come out and say 'Prison will be good for him' but these people have never been in a prison for any length of time I'd say.

[ledge]

Disagree on that. he could become a fitness coach or given an opportunity to contribute in some minor way that would keep him busy. Demetriou and others come out and say 'Prison will be good for him' but these people have never been in a prison for any length of time I'd say.

You think a club will hire him?

[Ghost Dog]

You think a club will hire him?

No, I didn't say a club would be. but, a community sports group with connections to correctional services would be very interested in someone with Ben's life experiences; provided he can get himself clean for some period before he has a go. That would be long term. In the short term, he has to take it very slow for some years I suspect.

[Bulldog4life]

Ben Cousins as we all know was a great player of course winning a Brownlow and a premiership but outside of football it has been a disaster for him. Cousins clearly needs help with this drug problem. Hopefully for himself and his family it can have a good ending like Murphy'sLore said. I heard though that it was possible that he could go to jail for up to 25 years but is that really the place where he should be? What happened with his rehab?

Yes if he is trafficking and ruining other people's lives.

[AndrewP6]

. Clearly he has an illness. But does that mean he warrants pity or compassion?
Yes, in my book, it does.


I have pity for him, though much more for his family and the others who he has hurt around him. I also believe he has been protected for far too long by others who stood to gain from his prowess and it is time he experienced some real and personal repercussions from his actions.

And you think he hasn't? Staggering.

[Eastdog]

Yes, in my book, it does.



And you think he hasn't? Staggering.

Do you think he could really go to jail or will he just go back to rehab.

[AndrewP6]

He did make a special on his drug addiction for everyone to see,for good intention no doubt but doing that has now made it media attention and brought it to the publics attention, of course he is going to be watched in the future especially if he goes the wrong way.
Him being watched isn't the issue, it is about him being hounded and harassed, and that journo going against his request.


Either way it goes he will be harrassed by media due to his coming out in a special he decided to do.

Because he had the courage to open up and bring his addictions into the public eye, gives them the right to follow him around, invading what little privacy he has left?

[AndrewP6]

Do you think he could really go to jail or will he just go back to rehab.

If he's found to have traficked, jail.

[AndrewP6]

So did he have an illness when he first tried drugs?

Many experts in the field will say yes, he did. Many believe the addiction is always present, it "appears" when the drug is used.

[Eastdog]

If he's found to have traficked, jail.

If he goes to jail he might come out a better person and realize the bad choices he made and make sure it doesn't happen again. Treating the addiction should be a priority if he does not go to jail but he has to be committed to it.

[AndrewP6]

I feel compassion for those who deserve it. I feel compassion for the people that live with the threat of bombs falling on their homes every day, I feel compassion for the same people being treated like viruses when they try to flee their homes in search of a better life, I feel compassion for the starving, I feel compassion for the poor, I feel compassion for people who have lost loved ones and homes from fires, floods earthquakes etc. I could keep going.

What I don't have is compassion for someone who has had the world at his feet continued to make really bad choices and with all the help he has had continued to do the same.

Having "the world at his feet" is largely irrelevant, it has absolutely no bearing on him having an addiction. Many addicts are highly successful business executives. Nor can it be simplified to "making bad choices". That could explain the first time he used, but addiction is a neurological disease, not a lifestyle choice.

[Eastdog]

Having "the world at his feet" is largely irrelevant, it has absolutely no bearing on him having an addiction. Many addicts are highly successful business executives. Nor can it be simplified to "making bad choices". That could explain the first time he used, but addiction is a neurological disease, not a lifestyle choice.

I agree AndrewP6. Drug addiction is real where as sex addiction I don't think there is such thing.

[AndrewP6]

If he goes to jail he might come out a better person and realize the bad choices he made and make sure it doesn't happen again. Treating the addiction should be a priority if he does not go to jail but he has to be committed to it.

I know what you mean, but addiction doesn't make one a bad person. We don't say all smokers are bad people, yet smoking is an addiction.He might also get access to drugs made in a backyard, and end up leaving in a jail in a wooden box.

[Eastdog]

I know what you mean, but addiction doesn't make one a bad person. We don't say all smokers are bad people, yet smoking is an addiction.He might also get access to drugs made in a backyard, and end up leaving in a jail in a wooden box.

Very true. These people who have an addiction are not all bad people like some people suggest.

[Eastdog]

I don't want to get to political but do you think decriminalizing drugs can decrease addiction and reduce crime.

[GVGjr]

I don't want to get to political but do you think decriminalizing drugs can decrease addiction and reduce crime.

Lets stick to the discussion about Ben thanks.

[Before I Die]

Yes, in my book, it does.

And so do I, as I stated in my post. Please don't quote out of context.


And you think he hasn't? Staggering.

Actually, I think he has, the problem is that he doesn't. Perhaps if I had said that "he has been protected by others for too long at his own expense" then you would have found the intent of my post clearer.


Cousins behaves like he is bullet proof and for most of his life he has been. Unless he realises very soon just how much harm is being done, then this will end badly.

[AndrewP6]

And so do I, as I stated in my post. Please don't quote out of context.

You stated you feel pity, I highlighted compassion. I view them differently.



Unless he realises very soon just how much harm is being done, then this will end badly.
We can agree on that.

[Topdog]

He should never have left Melbourne to go back to Perth. Really stupid thing to do.

[AndrewP6]

He should never have left Melbourne to go back to Perth. Really stupid thing to do.

Agreed, that was likely the wrong move. Perhaps he thought being nearer to home would be good, and chemical dependency impacts on your reasoning and judgment.. Still, it has been downhill since.

[Eastdog]

Agreed, that was likely the wrong move. Perhaps he thought being nearer to home would be good. Still, it has been downhill since.

What if Cousins stayed in football when he retired.

[AndrewP6]

What if Cousins stayed in football when he retired.

Still don't think the environment would've been conducive to recovery.

[Eastdog]

Still don't think the environment would've been conducive to recovery.

So pretty much either way it would not make a difference.

[AndrewP6]

So pretty much either way it would not make a difference.

Too complex an issue for an easy fix.

[Eastdog]

Too complex an issue for an easy fix.

Absolutely. It is not just a simple fix. It takes a long time and is very hard and if he wants to get better he has to do the recovery/rehab the right way.

[Desipura]

Absolutely. It is not just a simple fix. It takes a long time and is very hard and if he wants to get better he has to do the recovery/rehab the right way.

Sadly I think he is too far gone for there to be a recovery.

[Eastdog]

Sadly I think he is too far gone for there to be a recovery.

From where he is now if he did recovery then that would be a good story but as you said Desipura it is more likely he has beyond it now.

[LostDoggy]

From where he is now if he did recovery then that would be a good story but as you said Desipura it is more likely he has beyond it now.

He probably has done very well on many many days. Unfortunately now, maybe fortunately, he can't make a mistake without being caught. The quantity seems more like enough for a big party with 'friends'(parasites) than a commercial exercise.
Wagons are easy to fall off.

[jeemak]

Yes if he is trafficking and ruining other people's lives.

This is a pretty grey area.

Some say that Ben Cousins has exercised personal choice and doesn't deserve compassion, pity, a second chance or whatever. The same people might then say that if he's been dealing then he's ruining the lives of the people he sells drugs to and should go to jail. Where does the personal choice for those people come in to play? It wouldn't be as if they have had the drugs slammed down their throats (BTW, not singling you out B4L).

I suppose I can see why people might think that because Cousins has made a documentary highlighting his battle with drugs that he is somewhat exposed moving forward from that to scrutiny, and in some ways I agree. However, surely there has to come a time where the health of an individual, as well as the impact on associated family members and friends is considered prior to a media outlet milking a sad and sorry story.

I agree that we get the media we deserve, and if anything it's a sad reflection on ourselves as a collective that we are so interested in seeing people at their worst and shamed like Cousins was this week.

I personally doubt going to prison is going to help a guy that likes to party and carry a few grams of meth around with him. In fact, jail is a place mostly full of arseholes where drugs are easily accessible at the type of price you probably wouldn't have to pay on the street.

I'm extremely surprised Vlad felt the need to comment on the potential benefits of sending Ben Cousins to jail. Thoughtless and possibly ignorant move in my opinion and he would have helped the situation a lot more by keeping his mouth shut.

[Ghost Dog]

This is a pretty grey area.

Some say that Ben Cousins has exercised personal choice and doesn't deserve compassion, pity, a second chance or whatever. The same people might then say that if he's been dealing then he's ruining the lives of the people he sells drugs to and should go to jail. Where does the personal choice for those people come in to play? It wouldn't be as if they have had the drugs slammed down their throats (BTW, not singling you out B4L).

I suppose I can see why people might think that because Cousins has made a documentary highlighting his battle with drugs that he is somewhat exposed moving forward from that to scrutiny, and in some ways I agree. However, surely there has to come a time where the health of an individual, as well as the impact on associated family members and friends is considered prior to a media outlet milking a sad and sorry story.

I agree that we get the media we deserve, and if anything it's a sad reflection on ourselves as a collective that we are so interested in seeing people at their worst and shamed like Cousins was this week.

I personally doubt going to prison is going to help a guy that likes to party and carry a few grams of meth around with him. In fact, jail is a place mostly full of arseholes where drugs are easily accessible at the type of price you probably wouldn't have to pay on the street.

I'm extremely surprised Vlad felt the need to comment on the potential benefits of sending Ben Cousins to jail. Thoughtless and possibly ignorant move in my opinion and he would have helped the situation a lot more by keeping his mouth shut.

yeah look I agree totally. Andrew should be a bit more circumspect. It's like a CEO commenting on the personal life of an ex-employee in a branch company. they would never make a public statement about such a thing. It would be ' no comment'. What does AD know about being in Jail? or what is good for a drug addict? does he have a cert IV in drug and alcohol?

I'm not trying to excuse Mr Cousins from going to jail. The law is clear. It's pretty sad he was on the way back to a rehab camp for teens. Ruining other's lives most likely.

[ledge]

Okay so he is a drug addict, but that doesnt condone selling it if thats the case.
No sympathy if he is selling it, he knows its bad he cant get over his addiction so he makes it available to others and profits from it?
There goes the "he might be a good person" theory in my opinion.

[G-Mo77]

Having "the world at his feet" is largely irrelevant, it has absolutely no bearing on him having an addiction. Many addicts are highly successful business executives. Nor can it be simplified to "making bad choices". That could explain the first time he used, but addiction is a neurological disease, not a lifestyle choice.

Sorry but I find that complete rubbish. Years ago a few mates and I had a chance to try cocaine I declined, my friends didn't. At that point I could have said yes and it who knows it could have lead to an addiction. I made a choice and it was the right one. I had the same choice with cigarettes and alcohol. I tried both of those though, one I still dabble with.

Do cigarette smokers have an illness, alcoholics?

We all make choices in life and have to suffer the consequences for the bad ones.

[AndrewP6]

Sorry but I find that complete rubbish. Years ago a few mates and I had a chance to try cocaine I declined, my friends didn't. At that point I could have said yes and it who knows it could have lead to an addiction. I made a choice and it was the right one. I had the same choice with cigarettes and alcohol. I tried both of those though, one I still dabble with.
I find it strangely amusing that you can dismiss the notion of addiction as "rubbish". My point, which you've missed by a country mile, is that addiction is often revealed (for want of a better word) after making such choices. Once the decision is made, it triggers the addiction.


Do cigarette smokers have an illness, alcoholics?

If addicted, yes. An alcoholic is addicted to alcohol. Nicotine addiction is very real.


We all make choices in life and have to suffer the consequences for the bad ones.
And he most certainly has, is, and likely will be. That doesn't change the fact he has a serious illness - regardless of whether or not you personally don't believe addiction is real. There are countless sites you can visit to clear up your misconceptions.

[AndrewP6]

Okay so he is a drug addict, but that doesnt condone selling it if thats the case.
No sympathy if he is selling it, he knows its bad he cant get over his addiction so he makes it available to others and profits from it?
There goes the "he might be a good person" theory in my opinion.

Mind altering drugs are known to affect the addict's ability to reason and use logic.

[Topdog]

Okay so he is a drug addict, but that doesnt condone selling it if thats the case.
No sympathy if he is selling it, he knows its bad he cant get over his addiction so he makes it available to others and profits from it?
There goes the "he might be a good person" theory in my opinion.

Around about a 0.00001% chance he was selling it IMO.

[Topdog]

Okay so he is a drug addict, but that doesnt condone selling it if thats the case.
No sympathy if he is selling it, he knows its bad he cant get over his addiction so he makes it available to others and profits from it?
There goes the "he might be a good person" theory in my opinion.

Around about a 0.00001% chance he was selling it IMO.

[ledge]

Around about a 0.00001% chance he was selling it IMO.

Well I did say IF.

[Maddog37]

Close thread please. Not been about Cousins for a large part and nothing to do with footy or WBFC.

[AndrewP6]

Close thread please. Not been about Cousins for a large part and nothing to do with footy or WBFC.

It's completely about Cousins. He's a retired AFL player, and it's in the AFL Talk forum. No one has to read it.

[G-Mo77]

I find it strangely amusing that you can dismiss the notion of addiction as "rubbish". My point, which you've missed by a country mile, is that addiction is often revealed (for want of a better word) after making such choices. Once the decision is made, it triggers the addiction.

Decision, choices. Yep he could have just said no from the start couldn't he yet I'm the bad guy for not having any compassion for him.

[LostDoggy]

Sorry but I find that complete rubbish. Years ago a few mates and I had a chance to try cocaine I declined, my friends didn't. At that point I could have said yes and it who knows it could have lead to an addiction. I made a choice and it was the right one. I had the same choice with cigarettes and alcohol. I tried both of those though, one I still dabble with.

Do cigarette smokers have an illness, alcoholics?
We all make choices in life and have to suffer the consequences for the bad ones.

Yes, I believe that smokers and alcoholics have an illness. Some people are just predisposed to addictions. Of course we all have choices, and you should be especially pleased you made the choice to not try cocaine, which you admit yourself, may have lead to an addiction. With all due respect, personally, I don't think any of us has the right to judge another because we made "good" choices and they didn't. Sometimes life and choices aren't that simple - life isn't just black or white!

[Maddog37]

It's completely about Cousins. He's a retired AFL player, and it's in the AFL Talk forum. No one has to read it.

So if Robert Klomp starts making paper planes out of lettuce leaves and it's in the AFL Talk forum we will have an in depth discussion on it?

This discussion is now all about addiction and drug use and not about the AFL.

[ledge]

So if Robert Klomp starts making paper planes out of lettuce leaves and it's in the AFL Talk forum we will have an in depth discussion on it?

This discussion is now all about addiction and drug use and not about the AFL.

If people choose to , thats what a forum is, people choose what they want to talk about and discuss, if you dont wish to talk about the topic dont join it but obviously you are interested in this one because you have been reading it.:D

[AndrewP6]

So if Robert Klomp starts making paper planes out of lettuce leaves and it's in the AFL Talk forum we will have an in depth discussion on it?

This discussion is now all about addiction and drug use and not about the AFL.

As I said, no one's forcing you to read it. There are countless other threads and forums here that don't interest me in the slightest, but I'm not calling for their closure.

[AndrewP6]

Decision, choices. Yep he could have just said no from the start couldn't he yet I'm the bad guy for not having any compassion for him.

I've never said that first choice was a good one. He, like so many others, might have felt something was missing in his life (something that has nothing to do with money or material possessions), so he went looking - got himself into a mess that he couldn't (can't) get himself out of. And I have compassion for people in that situation.

[Ghost Dog]

I've never said that first choice was a good one. He, like so many others, might have felt something was missing in his life (something that has nothing to do with money or material possessions), so he went looking - got himself into a mess that he couldn't (can't) get himself out of. And I have compassion for people in that situation.

His family must be at their wits end. Perth is not such a big place y ou could hide, if you were related to the guy.

[AndrewP6]

His family must be at their wits end. Perth is not such a big place y ou could hide, if you were related to the guy.

Absolutely they are ( if that doco was any indication). And the times when he is cognisant Of that would be devastating for him too. That makes this whole thing even worse.

[KT31]

Cousins allegedly caught with Meth.

http://www.theage.com.au/wa-news/ben-cousins-reportedly-caught-with-meth-in-canning-vale-20161017-gs4l6c

[Dancin' Douggy]

Tragedy. That Eagles flag is as dirty as they get.

[bulldogtragic]

Tragedy. That Eagles flag is as dirty as they get.

Yep, they let him do things he shouldn't have been allowed to. I fear his story has a very said ending, I hope not. But I fear it never the less.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Its a shame he can't break free of the scourge of addiction that has it's claws into him.
I hope he can somehow get his life together, as I fear unless he changes course drastically we're going to read one more sad, final headline soon.

[AndrewP6]

This is beyond sad. Like others, I worry for the next headline.

[Throughandthrough]

Robert Dipierdomenico may yet go down as a Soothsayer

[Twodogs]

Tragedy. That Eagles flag is as dirty as they get.

I can't believe they carried so many party boys to a flag.


Yep, they let him do things he shouldn't have been allowed to. I fear his story has a very said ending, I hope not. But I fear it never the less.

It's Kurt Kobain all over again. Everyone knew that was coming



Robert Dipierdomenico may yet go down as a Soothsayer

What did Dipper say?

[GVGjr]

Guys, I've cleaned up a couple of posts. Lets keep it respectful and also importantly on topic.

[bulldogtragic]

Guys, I've cleaned up a couple of posts. Lets keep it respectful and also importantly on topic.

My bad G.

[Scraggers]

Quick update :-

Ben Cousins was supposed to appear in court yesterday but was a 'no-show'. He rang his lawyer and said he was sick and couldn't make it. There was a warrant for his arrest yesterday afternoon.

Last night 1:30am Perth time, Ben was involved in a car accident. He ploughed into the back of a truck on a suburban street. He is currently under police guard in hospital with minor injuries.

[ledge]

Need to take his licence off him, obviously not safe to be driving a car.
Maybe it's time he was locked up for everyone else's safety, I don't think this should be about him anymore but the people he could cause harm to.

[hujsh]

Need to take his licence off him, obviously not safe to be driving a car.
Maybe it's time he was locked up for everyone else's safety, I don't think this should be about him anymore but the people he could cause harm to.

Prison or a health/rehab facility?

[Greystache]

Prison or a health/rehab facility?

He's been to a dozen of these, it seems to have made no difference.

[1eyedog]

Said he was too sick to attend court but did not supply a medical certificate judge ordered his arrest. He's still way off the rails.

[Twodogs]

Quick update :-

Ben Cousins was supposed to appear in court yesterday but was a 'no-show'. He rang his lawyer and said he was sick and couldn't make it. There was a warrant for his arrest yesterday afternoon.

Last night 1:30am Perth time, Ben was involved in a car accident. He ploughed into the back of a truck on a suburban street. He is currently under police guard in hospital with minor injuries.

At least they know where he is.


Need to take his licence off him, obviously not safe to be driving a car.
Maybe it's time he was locked up for everyone else's safety, I don't think this should be about him anymore but the people he could cause harm to.

I'd be suprised if he held a license at the moment.


He's been to a dozen of these, it seems to have made no difference.

Yeah but there's rehab and yen there's rehab. Ben needs less of the luxurious resort beingseentogetstraightforamonth type rehab and more of the Tibetan monk extreme detox type rehab.


Said he was too sick to attend court but did not supply a medical certificate judge ordered his arrest. He's still way off the rails.


Addict will always be an addict. He probably was sick. One way or another.

[GVGjr]

Prison or a health/rehab facility?

Which ever keeps him and others safe but I'd lean towards sending him a prison based on the fact that the rehab hasn't worked in the past.

[jeemak]

I don't think prison's a good place for him. The best way to become a recidivist and be caught up in the system is to go to prison in the first instance.

Everything that can be possibly done should be to keep him out of the prison system.

[Twodogs]

I don't think prison's a good place for him. The best way to become a recidivist and be caught up in the system is to go to prison in the first instance.

Everything that can be possibly done should be to keep him out of the prison system.

In a lot of ways prison would be the worst place for him but some rules and structure and a bit of tough love in another form (not the army) would be the best thing at the moment.

[hujsh]

Has he ever been to a proper rehab clinic where he was made to stay until he was better or has it only been celebrity centers he can check out of when he's sick of it?

(Please excuse any ignorance on the topic on part of something I wrote just then was operating under false assumptions about how these things work)

[Danny the snakeman]

He should be up for a bit of coin once the tests come back with drugs in his system, no insurance and will lose license.

[jeemak]

In a lot of ways prison would be the worst place for him but some rules and structure and a bit of tough love in another form (not the army) would be the best thing at the moment.

He needs to go to a serious rehab first and foremost, and then find something he likes or wants to do (aside from hitting the glass BBQ as often as he can), earn an education and start a post football life.

I don't reckon a person like him is happy unless they're doing something they want to be doing and doing it well. He can't do football for the foreseeable future, he needs to get some clarity and find something else.

[AndrewP6]

Has he ever been to a proper rehab clinic where he was made to stay until he was better or has it only been celebrity centers he can check out of when he's sick of it?

(Please excuse any ignorance on the topic on part of something I wrote just then was operating under false assumptions about how these things work)

It's quite common for patients in rehab to check out, and has nothing to do with celebrity status. There are a number of factors leading to a patient deciding to take themselves out of rehab.

[GVGjr]

He needs to go to a serious rehab first and foremost, and then find something he likes or wants to do (aside from hitting the glass BBQ as often as he can), earn an education and start a post football life.

I don't reckon a person like him is happy unless they're doing something they want to be doing and doing it well. He can't do football for the foreseeable future, he needs to get some clarity and find something else.

While I see what you're suggesting as probably the right thing for Cousins I also think his reckless acts have the potential to harm someone innocent. With that in mind, if he stuffs around in a rehab facility because he has the scope to do so then a visit to the big house should be the next option. He's already been given more latitude than 98% of people that suffer from the same conditions and it's not right to just keep hoping he turns it around.

At some point, someone might have to make the hard decision because he clearly can't control things.

[jeemak]

I understand that perspective G, but you can't send someone to the big house unless they've earned the privilege. As soon as Cousins actually earns the privilege via a true test of the law then there's no point in opining about sending him there.

There's a significant amount of sociopaths and psychopaths getting around in society, alongside average or garden variety drink driving, petty or domestic offending types who are in the queue to the big house before him anyway, and if he wasn't a prolific footballer in one stage of his life he'd get no airplay at all and he'd take his place in that queue just like any other low profile punter would.

But, just like any other low profile punter, the same rules apply irrespective of his profile, and the same remedies apply to his addiction. We know that sending people to jail screws them up more than it helps them, I really don't understand how anyone within the public thinks that doing so more often will lead to a better society, and better outcomes for offenders on a long term basis (not having a crack G).

[Twodogs]

While I see what you're suggesting as probably the right thing for Cousins I also think his reckless acts have the potential to harm someone innocent. With that in mind, if he stuffs around in a rehab facility because he has the scope to do so then a visit to the big house should be the next option. He's already been given more latitude than 98% of people that suffer from the same conditions and it's not right to just keep hoping he turns it around.

At some point, someone might have to make the hard decision because he clearly can't control things.

The last time I did rehab it was in a no *!*!*!*!ing around type place that wasn't a million miles from a prison. Strict rules, bedtimes and getting up times, tasks, three levels of security between us and the square heads, roll call, bed checks, room searches and a release date. Spare time was program time. And while it was voluntary to start with once you started then you stayed until someone signed a form saying you could go. And we were locked in with some serious psychos

Anyway it worked is the point. Best thing I ever did.

[hujsh]

It's quite common for patients in rehab to check out, and has nothing to do with celebrity status. There are a number of factors leading to a patient deciding to take themselves out of rehab.

Well I'm aware of that and didn't mean to conflate the two. They were more two separate points of

1. Maybe the places he's been to have been more celebrity retreat type places than somewhere you go when you're really serious about getting clean (again no idea if that actually works that way) and

2. Maybe the decision of when it's time to check out should be placed in someone else's hands than his own.


Essentially it might be time for him to go to a place like what Twodogs just described

[Twodogs]

The last time I did rehab it was in a no *!*!*!*!ing around type place that wasn't a million miles from a prison. Strict rules, bedtimes and getting up times, tasks, three levels of security between us and the square heads, roll call, bed checks, room searches and a release date. Spare time was program time. And while it was voluntary to start with once you started then you stayed until someone signed a form saying you could go. And we were locked in with some serious psychos

Anyway it worked is the point. Best thing I ever did.


As a matter of interest today is 6.5 years clean of all drugs for me. No hard drugs, no 'recreational' (I hate that term so much-I was never told a bigger lie) drugs, no alcohol.

Thanks FDOTM you saved my life mate.

[Scraggers]

Good one Twodogs !!! Well done mate

[Topdog]

Congrats mate, that is awesome.

[Twodogs]

Thanks guys.

I've learned that you have to accept responsibility to move forward and making good choices is the most important thing in life. I don't think Ben is ready or capable of doing either of those things. There really is no simple answer be it locking him up or legalising drugs and letting him go free range. The guys got demons and they have to becalmed because his using is classic self medicating.

[bornadog]

As a matter of interest today is 6.5 years clean of all drugs for me. No hard drugs, no 'recreational' (I hate that term so much-I was never told a bigger lie) drugs, no alcohol.

Thanks FDOTM you saved my life mate.

Great Stuff Carl, keep at it. The bloody stuff stays in you forever craving it.

[jeemak]

Awesome Carl.

Congratulations mate.

[ledge]

Well we all have one thing we are addicted to .. The Western Bulldog football club and at the moment it is probably the best thing in the world to be addicted to !

[LostDoggy]

As a matter of interest today is 6.5 years clean of all drugs for me. No hard drugs, no 'recreational' (I hate that term so much-I was never told a bigger lie) drugs, no alcohol.

Thanks FDOTM you saved my life mate.

Sensational work TD! :)

Having been in a similar position myself about 16 years ago,I know the mental strength it takes
to be able to resist the hourly and daily urges and cravings that the mind and body constantly cry out for.
One day at a time brother,
One day at a time.

#Respect

[Twodogs]

Sensational work TD! :)

Having been in a similar position myself about 16 years ago,I know the mental strength it takes
to be able to resist the hourly and daily urges and cravings that the mind and body constantly cry out for.
One day at a time brother,
One day at a time.

#Respect


It's the only way to live, every morning is a good morning these days.

[merantau]

It's the only way to live, every morning is a good morning these days.
Thanks for sharing with us TD. It's educative for me to hear from someone who's been around the block because I'm guilty of rushing to judgment on Ben Cousins - taking the simplistic view that he is l totally self-centered by choice whereas the addiction has actually removed his choice.

[Scraggers]

LINK (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/ben-cousins-arrested-in-suburban-perth/news-story/2614d0362750c414e9d429db277a407f)

And again !!! This guy needs serious intervention !!!!

[bulldogtragic]

LINK (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/ben-cousins-arrested-in-suburban-perth/news-story/2614d0362750c414e9d429db277a407f)

And again !!! This guy needs serious intervention !!!!

He had an intervention, from the court by way of a violence intervention order, which he's breached. I'm not a fan of the prison system as a form of rehabilitation, but there's a lot more issues than that now. Imprisonment also has stated aims of punishing recidivist offending, ensuring community safety and deterrence to other would be offenders (they'll be a range of views about why, how etc). But at this point the story is get a good lawyer and you can run completely amok through Perth with impunity. His addiction is one angle of these circumstances but it's starting to encompass more and more other issues now. The last thing anyone wants to see is Cousins hurt himself or others and his life trajectory is equal part bad, equal part sad.

[Twodogs]

He had an intervention, from the court by way of a violence intervention order, which he's breached. I'm not a fan of the prison system as a form of rehabilitation, but there's a lot more issues than that now. Imprisonment also has stated aims of punishing recidivist offending, ensuring community safety and deterrence to other would be offenders (they'll be a range of views about why, how etc). But at this point the story is get a good lawyer and you can run completely amok through Perth with impunity. His addiction is one angle of these circumstances but it's starting to encompass more and more other issues now. The last thing anyone wants to see is Cousins hurt himself or others and his life trajectory is equal part bad, equal part sad.


Agree. It's gone past the point of him just getting busted for possession and drug related offences to really reckless offences against the person. At some stage it goes past "it doesn't make sense to lock me up because I'm off my guts all the time and prison is an awful place to detox". Anyway who are we kidding? Prison has the best drugs.

[ledge]

At least in prison he isn't going to hurt the innocent bystander or driver. At what stage do we worry about the general public more than him?
Let's face it if he seriously hurt someone now people will ask how many chances does this guy get .. All the signs have been ticked he isn't safe in the community anymore.
It becomes more about the innocent victim than him now.

[GVGjr]

He's ignoring all the warnings he's been getting and reprimands or fines aren't working.

I was listening to SEN today and apparently even he believes he will be in the big house by Xmas. Whatever it takes to keep him and most importantly others safe should be the main aim.

[LostDoggy]

At some point when a person's life has spiralled so much out of control, and the people that love you so much have done all they think they can for you,as a last resort to be locked up can be the most sobering realism.
Not only to avoid the harm towards others but also to oneself.
Hope and pray that Ben can get his life back on the track to redemption.

[The Pie Man]

In theory (and I'm sure practically in many cases) jail's not the answer - my late brother did a 6 month stint a few years before he passed away, and the day he got out he looked the best he had in years.

It only lasted hours, but I'll never forget how alive he looked and how clearly he could communicate the day he got out.

[Topdog]

Yesterdays breach could be nothing if his version of the story is correct. Suppose we find out today

[LostDoggy]

Yesterdays breach could be nothing if his version of the story is correct. Suppose we find out today

Correct and he has to get out of W.A.

[GVGjr]

The AFL has offered to put him into rehab. Fantastic of them to make the offer

[Twodogs]

The AFL has offered to put him into rehab. Fantastic of them to make the offer

From what he was saying yesterday then he sounds due. He sounded like a man who wants to escape.

[westdog54]

This has become a truly, truly sad story. He's gone from having the world as his oyster to a life virtually lived in the gutter.

He's virtually unemployable at the moment, a testament to poor management during his career.

The curse of Ricky Nixon strikes again. Extract maximum value for the now and *!*!*!*! the future, because that's not my problem.

He did it to Carey and now he's doing it to Cousins. He could have set Ben up for life. He set himself up for life instead.

[bulldogtragic]

This has become a truly, truly sad story. He's gone from having the world as his oyster to a life virtually lived in the gutter.

He's virtually unemployable at the moment, a testament to poor management during his career.

The curse of Ricky Nixon strikes again. Extract maximum value for the now and *!*!*!*! the future, because that's not my problem.

He did it to Carey and now he's doing it to Cousins. He could have set Ben up for life. He set himself up for life instead.

Unfortunately, the karma bus ran him over. Couldn't have been sweeter watching him sink.

[Twodogs]

Unfortunately, the karma bus ran him over. Couldn't have been sweeter watching him sink.

I've read that sentence a couple of hundred times and I don't get it. What was unfortunate about the karma bus running over Ricky Nixon? Was it the fact it didn't go into reverse and back over him again and again?

[Scraggers]

It's being reported over here that Ben will refuse the AFLs offer for paid rehab as he does not think he could cope with it. His close friends are asking that he is locked up instead of rehab.

[KT31]

This has become a truly, truly sad story. He's gone from having the world as his oyster to a life virtually lived in the gutter.

He's virtually unemployable at the moment, a testament to poor management during his career.

The curse of Ricky Nixon strikes again. Extract maximum value for the now and *!*!*!*! the future, because that's not my problem.

He did it to Carey and now he's doing it to Cousins. He could have set Ben up for life. He set himself up for life instead.

As much as I loath Nixon, they themselves are as much to blame or more for their diabolical decisions.

[ledge]

As a football manager I would imagine it's to get the best deal possible for a player .. Not sure they would be the financial advisor as well.
Carey shagged his ex captains wife and his career went down from their. How's that got anything to do with Nixon?
I don't see how Nixon has anything to do with how they spent their money.
All football managers would have seen clients go down hill, during and after their career, not a players manager job to plan their bank accounts.
I agree Nixon is a tool but with his own life not the players he managed. Unless he was involved in making them drug addicts.

[GVGjr]

I agree Nixon is a tool but with his own life not the players he managed. Unless he was involved in making them drug addicts.

In the Ben Cousins documentary Such is Life Nixon is trying to get him to stop associating with certain people in Perth and Cousins was clearly not accepting his advice. Cousins ignored a lot of advice from family, friends and managers and that is the nature of his illness.
Like you I'm not sure there is clear evidence that Nixon played a role in Cousins demise but maybe a better manager would have brought things to a head rather than reluctantly accepting it.

[ledge]

In the Ben Cousins documentary Such is Life Nixon is trying to get him to stop associating with certain people in Perth and Cousins was clearly not accepting his advice. Cousins ignored a lot of advice from family, friends and managers and that is the nature of his illness.
Like you I'm not sure there is clear evidence that Nixon played a role in Cousins demise but maybe a better manager would have brought things to a head rather than reluctantly accepting it.

In hindsight

[Ozza]

In the Ben Cousins documentary Such is Life Nixon is trying to get him to stop associating with certain people in Perth and Cousins was clearly not accepting his advice. Cousins ignored a lot of advice from family, friends and managers and that is the nature of his illness.
Like you I'm not sure there is clear evidence that Nixon played a role in Cousins demise but maybe a better manager would have brought things to a head rather than reluctantly accepting it.

Isn't that a bit like saying that; better parents would have brought it to a head - ?

[GVGjr]

Isn't that a bit like saying that; better parents would have brought it to a head - ?

Maybe. I'm saying that his manager knew there were issues and tried to talk to the player about it but once a defiant Cousins wouldn't listen I think Nixon just accepted it and I'm not that all other managers would have. I would have looked to terminate the relationship if you don't think you can help turn it around.

I wouldn't wish it upon anyone to have to endure what the Cousins family has and they seem like a great family.

[westdog54]

Maybe. I'm saying that his manager knew there were issues and tried to talk to the player about it but once a defiant Cousins wouldn't listen I think Nixon just accepted it and I'm not sure that all other managers would have. I would have looked to terminate the relationship if you don't think you can help turn it around.

I wouldn't wish it upon anyone to have to endure what the Cousins family has and they seem like a great family.

I'd expand on that by saying that if Nixon knew he had these issues but was still happy to make money off him in spite of them, it shows how concerned he really was about it all.

[KT31]

Lets forget Nixon, he is just an oxygen thief,.
While we are pointing fingers for Cousins poor choices and addictions a major part of blame must be placed on West Coke and their culture at the time, lets not forget Cousins is not the only player from them in that period who has major issues.

[Twodogs]

Maybe. I'm saying that his manager knew there were issues and tried to talk to the player about it but once a defiant Cousins wouldn't listen I think Nixon just accepted it and I'm not sure that all other managers would have. I would have looked to terminate the relationship if you don't think you can help turn it around.

I wouldn't wish it upon anyone to have to endure what the Cousins family has and they seem like a great family.

To be brutally honest his parents are just as much to blame as his manager. Maybe more so. They have looked the other way, refused to believe the evidence of their own eyes and been swayed by the bullshit stories and denials. They have enabled Ben's usage every bit as much as Nixon.

It might sound unfair but it's true of almost every addict. We are a manipulative breed and we will to lie and cheat anyone, no matter who they are-parents, partners, friends, cops, therapists, counsellors in order to get set. Tge thing about a junky is drugs control their life. Not for an hour a day, not for half the day but you're planning and scheming 24/7. You have no human friends, just fellow users and drugs.

People think they can help but they can only help in one way, and that's being there to pick up the pieces when the user wants help. They can't be corralled into stopping using. In fact most times if you try and force them to stop you're doing more harm than good because all that will achieve is a backlash and more usage.

Square heads try to look for sense in drug usage but there isn't any. It's a stupid, pointless thing to do but it's a compulsion that is uncontrollable for some of us. We don't really understand why we do it to ourselves so others aren't going to be able to work it out. I only stopped taking drugs because it I just got so sick of it, the illness, the tattooed *!*!*!*!wits, being broke all the time and I was so tired.

Somebody once said to me at AA that I still had plenty of highs left in me but that the next bout of coming down after would kill me. if Ben works that out for himself he will get better. I just hope he can survive until then.

[AndrewP6]

To be brutally honest his parents are just as much to blame as his manager. Maybe more so. They have looked the other way, refused to believe the evidence of their own eyes and been swayed by the bullshit stories and denials. They have enabled Ben's usage every bit as much as Nixon.

It might sound unfair but it's true of almost every addict. We are a manipulative breed and we will to lie and cheat anyone, no matter who they are-parents, partners, friends, cops, therapists, counsellors in order to get set. Tge thing about a junky is drugs control their life. Not for an hour a day, not for half the day but you're planning and scheming 24/7. You have no human friends, just fellow users and drugs.

People think they can help but they can only help in one way, and that's being there to pick up the pieces when the user wants help. They can't be corralled into stopping using. In fact most times if you try and force them to stop you're doing more harm than good because all that will achieve is a backlash and more usage.

Square heads try to look for sense in drug usage but there isn't any. It's a stupid, pointless thing to do but it's a compulsion that is uncontrollable for some of us. We don't really understand why we do it to ourselves so others aren't going to be able to work it out. I only stopped taking drugs because it I just got so sick of it, the illness, the tattooed *!*!*!*!wits, being broke all the time and I was so tired.

Somebody once said to me at AA that I still had plenty of highs left in me but that the next bout of coming down after would kill me. if Ben works that out for himself he will get better. I just hope he can survive until then.

Not having a go at you here, but I'm not sure I agree with the comment re: Ben's parents. After seeing that doco they appeared in, his troubles were very, very raw, so I don't see that as looking the other way. They've certainly picked up plenty of pieces along the way IMO.

[Twodogs]

Not having a go at you here, but I'm not sure I agree with the comment re: Ben's parents. After seeing that doco they appeared in, his troubles were very, very raw, so I don't see that as looking the other way. They've certainly picked up plenty of pieces along the way IMO.



Yeah fair point. Maybe not his parents but those close to him

[GVGjr]

To be brutally honest his parents are just as much to blame as his manager. Maybe more so. They have looked the other way, refused to believe the evidence of their own eyes and been swayed by the bullshit stories and denials. They have enabled Ben's usage every bit as much as Nixon.



I must admit that early on I thought Bryan was too focused on ensuring Ben was not lost to the AFL than he should have been.
There was a bigger problem that needed to be the focus.

[Twodogs]

I must admit that early on I thought Bryan was too focused on ensuring Ben was not lost to the AFL than he should have been.
There was a bigger problem that needed to be the focus.

Most parents first reaction to the news their child is taking drugs is "how will this make me look as a parent" when it should be "this isn't about me, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks I have to help my child" Quite often problem drug use at that age is a cry for help anyway.

Also it's important to distinguish between fairly normal curiosity on a kids behalf and long term problematic use. I watch my kids like a hawk (for the obvious reasons-that one is probably more about me than them) but thankfully haven't seen any signs. But if I notice long absences, unexplained illnesses, unusual sleeping patterns or anything similar then I will want to know what is going on. And I won't be getting fobbed off with tales where everybody else is at fault or circumstances prevailed. I'll be looking for responsibility being taken and then we can move forward.

When it comes to drugs and kids there are no easy convenient solutions. You have to break a few eggs.

[LostDoggy]

Most parents first reaction to the news their child is taking drugs is "how will this make me look as a parent" when it should be "this isn't about me, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks I have to help my child" Quite often problem drug use at that age is a cry for help anyway.

Also it's important to distinguish between fairly normal curiosity on a kids behalf and long term problematic use. I watch my kids like a hawk (for the obvious reasons-that one is probably more about me than them) but thankfully haven't seen any signs. But if I notice long absences, unexplained illnesses, unusual sleeping patterns or anything similar then I will want to know what is going on. And I won't be getting fobbed off with tales where everybody else is at fault or circumstances prevailed. I'll be looking for responsibility being taken and then we can move forward.

When it comes to drugs and kids there are no easy convenient solutions. You have to break a few eggs.

I'm all over my boys, two teenagers and my saying to them is you can't bullshit a bullshitter. There are 14-15yr olds getting around on some of the worst but it's all through the schools. I've been through a lot and seen a lot. I don't tolerate a second of shit It's all we can do but still it can mean nothing in the end.

[hujsh]

Most parents first reaction to the news their child is taking drugs is "how will this make me look as a parent" when it should be "this isn't about me, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks I have to help my child" Quite often problem drug use at that age is a cry for help anyway.

Also it's important to distinguish between fairly normal curiosity on a kids behalf and long term problematic use. I watch my kids like a hawk (for the obvious reasons-that one is probably more about me than them) but thankfully haven't seen any signs. But if I notice long absences, unexplained illnesses, unusual sleeping patterns or anything similar then I will want to know what is going on. And I won't be getting fobbed off with tales where everybody else is at fault or circumstances prevailed. I'll be looking for responsibility being taken and then we can move forward.

When it comes to drugs and kids there are no easy convenient solutions. You have to break a few eggs.

You'd have thought I was off my head with the weird hours I slept over holidays. (I wasn't and have never done anything worse than booze/pot)

[ledge]

I separated from my marriage when my kids were 5 and 10 , they both grew up being great kids .. Never touched drugs .. A compliment to their mother .,but we did have the discussion when they were first teenagers about drugs/alcohol and this is the best way I found to combat them. You may all not agree but my children have grown up very responsible and popular adults.
1 peer group . We always kept an eye on who their friends were and invited them to our house and got to know them.
Who they hang out with is the most important. You would sway them towards the good kids.
2 alcohol now this is where I could get slammed but it worked , my children at an early age grew up seeing me having a beer I let them have a sip if they asked , around 8 or 9 they started to ask.
I figured a sip was ok and at 18 when they got their licence drinking was something they didn't find new as they had been sipping out of my can for years..
Outcome .. My kids don't drink , only at parties and lucky if it's 3 cans a whole night , my daughter likes a white wine occasionally my son likes flavoured vodka.
They find beer isn't anything they enjoy and drinking isn't something they partake in on a regular basis at all.
I put it all down to the friends they have.
Strange thing is my son is in a pretty good hard metal band .. Tatts all
Over him doesn't smoke doesn't drink, beard down to his knees but the quietest most well mannered person you could ever meet.
My daughter is much the same but being a girl more vocal.
They are 25 and 20 now.
I guess the point is .. Keep a hold on who their close friends are and guide them on the "good friends " path.
This is where I fine the WCFC has neglected in their duties to keep an eye on the young players . If your going to take young kids from their parents we'll be like a parent and treat them as your own.

In the early 80s my parents took players in from the country the club had recruited . The idea from the club was they were kept in a good family environment .. I'm not sure it happens today but I do see a lot of footballers being roommates with other young players ,a recipe for problems if they aren't in a family environment in my opinion.

[bornadog]

Fallen Eagle Ben Cousins arrested on new stalking, drug and VRO charges (http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/ben-cousins-charged-with-new-offences-20170224-guki4a.html)

[Twodogs]

Geez. I dunno. This is just awful watching the guy hurtle toward immortality.

I wouldn't often say this but he needs locking up or strapping down or something dramatic.

[ledge]

Geez. I dunno. This is just awful watching the guy hurtle toward immortality.

I wouldn't often say this but he needs locking up or strapping down or something dramatic.

Before an innocent party gets hurt. If anyone I knew was caused Grief by him I would be trying to sue the courts / government they had the opportunity many times to see he was off the rails .. Should make the government or judges responsible for such blatantly obvious guy on a spiral being a danger to the public and keep letting him out or not putting him somewhere at least.

[bulldogtragic]

His lawyer wanted him to go rehab, but the judge said no, no, no.

1 year in the state's mandatory custody for Ben.

[LostDoggy]

Ben just got 12 months. 6 months non parole.

[Topdog]

He needs it

[Twodogs]

He needs it


He does. What he really needs is somebody to say no to him

Or at least that little voice that eggs him on to give him a break.

[GVGjr]

His lawyer wanted him to go rehab, but the judge said no, no, no.

1 year in the state's mandatory custody for Ben.

Absolute shame. I gather the judge just didn't trust him enough to go through and stick with another rehab process.

I hope there is some more assistance for him.

[merantau]

It's going to take a big effort, and some good people around him when he gets out, if he is going to turn it around. Why? Because, as I understand it, he's got nothing left. He's fallen a long way and it's going to be very difficult for him to lead an everyday life after what he's been used to all these years. I feel sorry for him and wish him well. I hope he gets the help he needs.

[bulldogtragic]

It's going to take a big effort, and some good people around him when he gets out, if he is going to turn it around. Why? Because, as I understand it, he's got nothing left. He's fallen a long way and it's going to be very difficult for him to lead an everyday life after what he's been used to all these years. I feel sorry for him and wish him well. I hope he gets the help he needs.

The news said WCE had offered him a full time job, and the AFLPA to fund his rehab costs (so he avoided debt and actually got the help) if he got on the straight and narrow before this last lot of offending. Apparently those offered were not enough to lead him in the right direction.

The whole leading a horse to water thing. With a supportive WCE job offer, financially supportive AFLPA and lenient/supportive judges repeatedly giving him 'one more chance with rehab', it doesn't seem to me to be a lack of support being offered. Hopefully this is his rock bottom because then it's only up from here.

[merantau]

The news said WCE had offered him a full time job, and the AFLPA to fund his rehab costs (so he avoided debt and actually got the help) if he got on the straight and narrow before this last lot of offending. Apparently those offered were not enough to lead him in the right direction.

The whole leading a horse to water thing. With a supportive WCE job offer, financially supportive AFLPA and lenient/supportive judges repeatedly giving him 'one more chance with rehab', it doesn't seem to me to be a lack of support being offered. Hopefully this is his rock bottom because then it's only up from here.

Thanks BT. I wasn't aware of all that.

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks BT. I wasn't aware of all that.

Apparently he was recorded on a recorded prison telephone call telling his father he had no intention of going to rehab or quitting his habit. Pretty hard to get around your own voice saying something contrary to what his lawyer was arguing (desire for no jail, but wanting rehab).

[merantau]

In that case there's little hope for anything other than an unhappy ending.

[AndrewP6]

Apparently he was recorded on a recorded prison telephone call telling his father he had no intention of going to rehab or quitting his habit. Pretty hard to get around your own voice saying something contrary to what his lawyer was arguing (desire for no jail, but wanting rehab).

That was recorded a while ago, he could well be thinking differently now. I hope so.

[Twodogs]

Absolute shame. I gather the judge just didn't trust him enough to go through and stick with another rehab process.

I hope there is some more assistance for him.

It doesn't sound like he's hit rock bottom yet.

Hopefully in jail the other prisoners can set him straight. Maybe they are the best guys for the job. They certainly won't *!*!*!*! around.


It's going to take a big effort, and some good people around him when he gets out, if he is going to turn it around. Why? Because, as I understand it, he's got nothing left. He's fallen a long way and it's going to be very difficult for him to lead an everyday life after what he's been used to all these years. I feel sorry for him and wish him well. I hope he gets the help he needs.

That often means that he will fall into the hands of an enabler. Someone who will control his supply and money and stuff and get to be Ben's best mate in return. Get some vicarious respect.

I understand that's what happens anyway. It's never happened to me or anything.p

[jeemak]

This is why upstream problem management is important. Communicating with users downstream is a nightmare.

[Mofra]

He does. What he really needs is somebody to say no to him
This.
He's basically been a rock star since age 15 - never really had to yield to others.

[Twodogs]

This.
He's basically been a rock star since age 15 - never really had to yield to others.


Yep. I'd hate to have had the problems I had while it was still in the interests of others to pump me up and send me out on stage. A bloke like Cousins makes money for plenty of people so it's not really in their interests to help him, they just want to keep him dancing and on centre stage. Whether he's clean and healthy doesn't really enter the equation from their POV.

Years ago I was backstage at a Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds gig (yes I was super cool-I was like a god!) when Nick got a bad case of the staggers halfway through a song and was having trouble remains upright. He walked side stage to where the mixing desk was and stuck his arm in front of the bloke at the desk who picked up a syringe and stuck it on Nick's arm-I guess he must have been the Coke/heroin/speed roadie. Anyway my point is nick cave was the coolest person in the world at the time and if he can be in thrall to drugs to that extent but it's in nobody's interests to help him then things are pretty *!*!*!*!ed up in the drug world

[KT31]

Yep. I'd hate to have had the problems I had while it was still in the interests of others to pump me up and send me out on stage. A bloke like Cousins makes money for plenty of people so it's not really in their interests to help him, they just want to keep him dancing and on centre stage. Whether he's clean and healthy doesn't really enter the equation from their POV.

Years ago I was backstage at a Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds gig (yes I was super cool-I was like a god!) when Nick got a bad case of the staggers halfway through a song and was having trouble remains upright. He walked side stage to where the mixing desk was and stuck his arm in front of the bloke at the desk who picked up a syringe and stuck it on Nick's arm-I guess he must have been the Coke/heroin/speed roadie. Anyway my point is nick cave was the coolest person in the world at the time and if he can be in thrall to drugs to that extent but it's in nobody's interests to help him then things are pretty *!*!*!*!ed up in the drug world

Ah makes sense now.:D

[Scraggers]

The news said WCE had offered him a full time job, and the AFLPA to fund his rehab costs (so he avoided debt and actually got the help) if he got on the straight and narrow before this last lot of offending. Apparently those offered were not enough to lead him in the right direction.

The whole leading a horse to water thing. With a supportive WCE job offer, financially supportive AFLPA and lenient/supportive judges repeatedly giving him 'one more chance with rehab', it doesn't seem to me to be a lack of support being offered. Hopefully this is his rock bottom because then it's only up from here.

He has had every opportunity under the sun ... but he needed to get clean first. That was the Eagles proviso on the job offer. (They wanted him to work with the future father/son prospects).

In his last arrest, he was caught with drugs and drug paraphernalia and had breeched his VRO by showing up at the house unannounced and sending over 2,000 texts to his ex (mother of his kids) in the space of two months ... that's over 30 texts a day.

[Twodogs]

Ah makes sense now.:D


Very good. Funny and fast.

You're probably right TBH. For one thing it makes no sense to mix the sound from side stage. You really wouldn't want to hear what most bands sound like from back/side stage out the front of the stage. What this guy gave to Nick seemed to be premixed though.

Nick Cave once told me he was a Footscray supporter. Something about a old uncle or cousin that played for us back in the day. He does have a weird sense of humour so he may have been taking the piss.

[GVGjr]

So nearly 6 and a half years on from when this thread was started and Ben is back in court and he really needs to be locked up for a long, long time if the charges of his threatening behavior to his former partner is even close to being the truth.

He's had more than enough chances.

[Twodogs]

So nearly 6 and a half years on from when this thread was started and Ben is back in court and he really needs to be locked up for a long, long time if the charges of his threatening behavior to his former partner is even close to being the truth.

He's had more than enough chances.


Silly boy only just got out. He must love it in there,

[westdog54]

Silly boy only just got out. He must love it in there,

I didn't realise he was even out. Surely will do a massive stretch.

[GVGjr]

I didn't realise he was even out. Surely will do a massive stretch.

Given his alleged threats to the mother of his children he shouldn't get out for a long time.

[Dancin' Douggy]

With all this happening i have one question how did he stay off it for 2 years at the tigers?

Because he didn’t

[Dancin' Douggy]

I agree. They are horrifying and just bone chilling. She’s the victim. Not him.

[Twodogs]

I didn't realise he was even out. Surely will do a massive stretch.

You'd think so. Unless he gets the good ol' boy treatment because he's the king of Perth? I'd suggest it's unlikely but you never know.

[Twodogs]

I agree. They are horrifying and just bone chilling. She’s the victim. Not him.


The kids too. It must be awful for them seeing their old man in that sort of state,

[westdog54]

You'd think so. Unless he gets the good ol' boy treatment because he's the king of Perth? I'd suggest it's unlikely but you never know.

I've said it before, the courts after looking dimly on Family Violence, and with him being a repeat offender its nitty looking good for him IMO.

[ledge]

A work colleague was in Perth for the interstate game drinking in a pub, looked over his shoulder and a hobo looking guy was sitting at a table having a beer, full beard scruffy hair, on his own , no one talking to him, one guess who it was.
I’m not sure he can ever recover, I wonder who gave him his first taste of drugs and how he was talked into it , because the warnings about drugs were definitely around when he got into them.

[jeemak]

The issue with Cousins isn’t drugs, it’s Cousins and his *!*!*!*!ed up life and his *!*!*!*!ed up perspective on life.

The majority of people who enjoy drugs don’t end up like Ben Cousins, and never will.

The sooner we acknowledge that, the better.

[azabob]

I've said it before, the courts after looking dimly on Family Violence, and with him being a repeat offender its nitty looking good for him IMO.

Yep. Shanon Grant another example.

[EasternWest]

The issue with Cousins isn’t drugs, it’s Cousins and his *!*!*!*!ed up life and his *!*!*!*!ed up perspective on life.

The majority of people who enjoy drugs don’t end up like Ben Cousins, and never will.

The sooner we acknowledge that, the better.

Sure, I think most people agree.

It's possible to hold Ben responsible and also feel sympathy for him.

[bornadog]

It's possible to hold Ben responsible and also feel sympathy for him.

I do.

[Twodogs]

Sure, I think most people agree.

It's possible to hold Ben responsible and also feel sympathy for him.


I do.


When he's using he's not Ben anymore. He's some horrible monster who doesn't appreciate or understand the result of his actions. Jeemak us right most people can have a night on the Persians and then not even think about them for days/weeks/months (that's how I am with alcohol, never had a problem with the grog, I can take it or leave it.) but a certain section of the community just can't walk away (that's me). But in AA we have a saying. If you have hay fever you don't go sniffing flowers, don't put yourself in harms way and you will be fine. Ben just can't stop sniffing the flowers.

[jeemak]

Sure, I think most people agree.

It's possible to hold Ben responsible and also feel sympathy for him.


I do.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm cold towards his struggles, the strong language in my post probably does though.

Do I have compassion for people in Cousins' situation from an addition perspective? Absolutely I do. I feel he's let himself down time and again, I feel many around him have let him down over the years through their mollycoddling and indulging of his behaviour. It's a horrible situation.

[Twodogs]

I don't want to give the impression that I'm cold towards his struggles, the strong language in my post probably does though.

Do I have compassion for people in Cousins' situation from an addition perspective? Absolutely I do. I feel he's let himself down time and again,I feel many around him have let him down over the years through their mollycoddling and indulging of his behaviour. It's a horrible situation.

Bingo. Some tough love at the start would have helped.

I'd hate to be a celebrity addict, the type that is too useful for the people around him to send off to rehab because it's in everybody else's interests to get you in a good enough state to dance but not to fix.

The big mistake most people make is looking for some sense to it all. There is no sense to it , it just happens to some people. There's no rhyme or reason, nobody does it to annoy anybody, it's not a party lifestyle (stumbling from one taste to the next is not a lifestyle) it's barely even a choice. I can tell you now Ben Cousins hasn't had an enjoyable moment in his life for years. Probably all of his post footy life I'll bet there isn't once that he's thought to himself "geez I'm kicking goals" and everybody wants to be kicking goals. Life is barely worth it otherwise.

[Ozza]

A work colleague was in Perth for the interstate game drinking in a pub, looked over his shoulder and a hobo looking guy was sitting at a table having a beer, full beard scruffy hair, on his own , no one talking to him, one guess who it was.
I’m not sure he can ever recover, I wonder who gave him his first taste of drugs and how he was talked into it , because the warnings about drugs were definitely around when he got into them.

According to his book, he was 16 when he first tried drugs (in that case ecstasy). So it started at least on some level, well before he was professional footballer.

[Twodogs]

A work colleague was in Perth for the interstate game drinking in a pub, looked over his shoulder and a hobo looking guy was sitting at a table having a beer, full beard scruffy hair, on his own , no one talking to him, one guess who it was.
I’m not sure he can ever recover, I wonder who gave him his first taste of drugs and how he was talked into it , because the warnings about drugs were definitely around when he got into them.


I doubt he was "talked" into it. Some of us are just like lemmings into the sea.

[bornadog]

According to his book, he was 16 when he first tried drugs (in that case ecstasy). So it started at least on some level, well before he was professional footballer.

A mate of mine has just found out his daughter is addicted to ice. She comes from a stable family, went to a private school and has had a privileged up bringing. However, she has mixed with people who gave her the taste.

He has been to a number of counselling sessions listening to other parents as well as to other sessions where addicts have told their story so he can learn a little about what he can do to support his daughter.

To his surprise most of the people there, first tried Ice at the age of 14, so not surprised by Ben trying it at age 16.

[Topdog]

damn thats terrible BAD.

[bornadog]

damn thats terrible BAD.

Very stressful for him, I was nearly in tears when he told me. I have known his daughter since she was about 7 years old, and she is now in her early 20s

[LostDoggy]

Bingo. Some tough love at the start would have helped.

I'd hate to be a celebrity addict, the type that is too useful for the people around him to send off to rehab because it's in everybody else's interests to get you in a good enough state to dance but not to fix.

The big mistake most people make is looking for some sense to it all. There is no sense to it , it just happens to some people. There's no rhyme or reason, nobody does it to annoy anybody, it's not a party lifestyle (stumbling from one taste to the next is not a lifestyle) it's barely even a choice. I can tell you now Ben Cousins hasn't had an enjoyable moment in his life for years. Probably all of his post footy life I'll bet there isn't once that he's thought to himself "geez I'm kicking goals" and everybody wants to be kicking goals. Life is barely worth it otherwise.


Agree fully, it does not discriminate.