Match Committee - Round 2 vs Adelaide

[Greystache]

If you were on the match committee what changes would you like to see for next week against Adelaide?

A brief explanation for your changes would be good too.

[LostDoggy]

Out: Grant - What the hell was he doing?
Howard

In - Griff
Cordy - BoG at Willy and kicked 4 on Jamo

[Dry Rot]

We're up against Walker and Tippett next week. Any thoughts on Markovic v Talia?

[Rance Fan]

Out - Howard, Addison
In - Griffen, Cordy

[LostDoggy]

Out: Grant - What the hell was he doing?
Howard

In - Griff
Cordy - BoG at Willy and kicked 4 on Jamo

Yep agreed, is Griff def going to right for next week.

[Mofra]

Was DJ best for Willy with Cordy 2nd?

Out:
Howard, Addison

In:
Griffen, Vez

Tempted with Cordy but we were out-run today, Cordy won't help with that.

[AndrewP6]

OUT Grant- what does he offer the side?
Addison-like his toughness, but we need more skill.

IN- Griff, Cordy. We need Griff in for a bit of silk, and Cordy apparently did well at Wiili.

[jeemak]

In: Griffen, Sherman, DJ

Out: Howard, Dickson and Addison

For Dickson not to get a tackle in an entire game of football was disappointing. Now that he has had a taste of the game at the highest level it's time to go back to Willy, get fitter and learn how to work harder.

We need more run this week, so I've put forward DJ and Sherman. Cordy isn't as important on the large ground that is Football Park.

Jarrad Grant to start the game. He was treated poorly by midfield when he came on, and was on a hiding to nothing with the way we were moving the ball when we finally got it.

[Ghost Dog]

In: Griffen, Sherman, DJ

Out: Howard, Dickson and Addison

For Dickson not to get a tackle in an entire game of football was disappointing. Now that he has had a taste of the game at the highest level it's time to go back to Willy, get fitter and learn how to work harder.

We need more run this week, so I've put forward DJ and Sherman. Cordy isn't as important on the large ground that is Football Park.

Jarrad Grant to start the game. He was treated poorly by midfield when he came on, and was on a hiding to nothing with the way we were moving the ball when we finally got it.

The first ball kicked into the goal square should have been marked. dead set.
Now I don't want to judge the kid unfairly, but he didn't even look upset. His body language has no hunger for the contest in it for someone at the supposed elite level. And Im sorry, but his later kick in front of goal was not a tight angle and within range. He had chances to impact on a game.

[Remi Moses]

In- Griffen, DJ, Cordy
Out- Roughy or Minson Addison Grant
We need more run and a more mobile ruck division

[Rocco Jones]

Out: Dickson, Roughead, Howard (if injured)
In: Griffen, Cordy, Sherman (as sub)

Nothing against Roughy, just that he isn't a 2nd ruck type IMO. DJ in if Griff's not right.

[GVGjr]

Had a quick chat to Griffen today and he indicated he is 50/50 for next week. Lets hope he improves a lot in the next couple of days.

[LostDoggy]

Out: Dickson, Roughead, Howard (if injured)
In: Griffen, Cordy, Sherman (as sub)

Nothing against Roughy, just that he isn't a 2nd ruck type IMO. DJ in if Griff's not right.

Agree. Not sure how Roughie got in ahead of Cordy - Cordy looked good throughout pre-season expected a lock for round 1.

[DragzLS1]

Out: Howard if injured, Dickson

In: Griffen and either dj or Sherman

Drop wood back to cover half back and get Sherman up on the wing or up forward

Think we will take on Adelaide this week and catch them by surprise

Any important match ups anybody could think of?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

For me it is Griffen in for Dickson, just didn't do enough or show he wanted it bad.

DJ or Veszpremi in for Grant, though call but feel we need pace and although he has it he didn't seem to want to be out on the park IMO

Maybe Cordy for Roughy,

[jeemak]

The first ball kicked into the goal square should have been marked. dead set.
Now I don't want to judge the kid unfairly, but he didn't even look upset. His body language has no hunger for the contest in it for someone at the supposed elite level. And Im sorry, but his later kick in front of goal was not a tight angle and within range. He had chances to impact on a game.

There were certainly some faults in his game today. I would be silly to suggest there weren't.

I thought it was extremely silly of McCartney to start him on the bench, personally. His role in the side is one of the hardest to play, and it takes a lot of confidence to do it well. Coming on in the third quarter as your side is moving the ball terribly and everyone at the ground knows you're going to get pantsed is a pretty hard task IMO.

With respect to body language, I think most posters should be reasonable enough to understand that what you see on the outside isn't necessarily what's happenning on the inside. I don't see what good Grant engaging in what would probably be for him theatrics would achieve.

[soupman]

Why are people dropping any of Minson, Addison or Roughead?

Addison generally beat his man in a defence that was up against it today. I don't remember him screwing it up when he had the ball at all today. I feel peoples perception of Addisons performance today was always going to be negative, eventhough he actually held his own.

Minson battled well against West Coast ruck division, was useful around the ground and actually took a few marks. It's all well and good wanting a more mobile ruck division but we haven't got a Cox and Naitanui playing for Willy atm. This applies for Roughy as well.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Why are people dropping any of Minson, Addison or Roughead?

Addison generally beat his man in a defence that was up against it today. I don't remember him screwing it up when he had the ball at all today. I feel peoples perception of Addisons performance today was always going to be negative, eventhough he actually held his own.


Yes spot on I think Hill got two Goals from free kicks that IMO were not warranted. Addison did a good job and will be playing next week.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Grant really isn't suited to the sub role. I thought the effort was there, he covered the ground well and was quick, but he just struggled to get involved. I think it's understandable; it's not easy to come on in the last quarter, whilst your team's getting hammered, and have a positive impact.

A few in the crowd kept bagging Grant, but I think it was unwarranted.

We are desperate for run; DJ has to play, along with Griffen if he's right.

IN: DJ, Griffen
OUT: Howard (inj?), Wallis

Tempted to play Sherman or Tutt as a sub in place of Dickson.

[GVGjr]

Surely Skinner has to be added to the Cordy, Djerrkura and Sherman names being mentioned?
Would we lose much between Grant and Skinner at the moment?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Surely Skinner has to be added to the Cordy, Djerrkura and Sherman names being mentioned?
Would we lose much between Grant and Skinner at the moment?

I don't think we should be making wholesale changes after one defeat.

As I said above, Grant isn't suited to the sub role -- I was disappointed to see he was the sub in the first place. He deserves an opportunity to prove his worth in a full game next week, before entertaining the idea of Skinner IMO.

(I've been very impressed with Skinner and I feel he should have played round one)

[jeemak]

Surely Skinner has to be added to the Cordy, Djerrkura and Sherman names being mentioned?
Would we lose much between Grant and Skinner at the moment?

I'm not sure Skinner would have had any sort of impact, let alone one greater than Grant's today if he had have been given a quarter and a half when the Eagles were in the midst of a run on.

I chose Addison as an out because I think we'll need more run next week to be competitive and he just doesn't offer that. Sure, he tried hard and didn't make any mistakes.

I'd prefer to see Wood played out of defense and have some run come into the midfield. Looking at this week's team it's clear to me that Addison is the person that has to make way. He might be unlucky, but sometimes that's just how football is. Whether I think he's worth persisting with hasn't come in to it.

[gohardorgohome]

Jones is a great mark .... Shabby kick for goal......I'd play him in the back line to fill for Tom Williams,, and bring Cordy as a forward / ruck....

[Pickenitup]

I Like the idea of Jones going back think it will help his development as a forward.
In Griffen Cordy
Out Howard Addison
Against The Crows with their height we Must Play Cordy

[Dog54]

Ins

Vez can kick the footy play back or forward ( a good sub)
Cordy can add versatility
Griffin (if not fit then Sherman)

Outs

Dickson had zero impact
Mitch wallis too far behind other inside midfielders at the moment
Addison (gives it his all just lacks class

[chef]

IN

Cordy
DJ
Vez
Sherman


OUT
Roughead
Wallis
Howard
Addison


Give Griffen another week if he is only 50/50. No use risking him.

[GVGjr]

I don't think we should be making wholesale changes after one defeat.

As I said above, Grant isn't suited to the sub role -- I was disappointed to see he was the sub in the first place. He deserves an opportunity to prove his worth in a full game next week, before entertaining the idea of Skinner IMO.

(I've been very impressed with Skinner and I feel he should have played round one)

I'm not suggesting that either. I just think he might deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as some others. Panos anyone?

[Greystache]

In- Cordy, DJ

Out- Addison, Wallis

[Hotdog60]

Reports have Howard out for up to 4 weeks with medial ligament damage.

[G-Mo77]

I heard something about Howie injuring his ankle on the turf so I guess he could be one of the guys that miss next week. Griffen to take his spot if healthy if not Vez, DJ or Sherman.

Honestly I didn't think much of Roughead's game today. Weather he is dropped and replaced with Cordy or play all 3 rucks I guess depends on how the Crows line up. I'm not sure if we could roll out all 3 though.

[bornadog]

Dickson had zero impact

I thought for his first game he wasn't too bad. Remember this level is so much more fast paced. He had 4 inside 50's and kicked one and contributed to one goal and should have kicked one more.

I would give him more game time, he has some pace and can kick a ball.

I hope Griffen can play next week as he is some one we could really have used.

[Ghost Dog]

I heard something about Howie injuring his ankle on the turf so I guess he could be one of the guys that miss next week. Griffen to take his spot if healthy if not Vez, DJ or Sherman.

Honestly I didn't think much of Roughead's game today. Weather he is dropped and replaced with Cordy or play all 3 rucks I guess depends on how the Crows line up. I'm not sure if we could roll out all 3 though.

suspected Medial - out for 4 weeks

[Desipura]

In DJ and Cordy
Out Howard and Roughy

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

If you were on the match committee what changes would you like to see for next week against Adelaide?

A brief explanation for your changes would be good too.
.
I would make 5 changes against Adelaide and that doesn't include our two worst players today in Wood and Markovic. Markovic simply isn't good enough to play on the opposition's best key forward as we saw today on Kennedy. Wood makes too many mistakes and is to nervous as a defender. I would however retain his services as a wingman.
It was always going to be a risk in playing just Jones as one key forward and so these are my changes.
In. Cordy,Panos,DJ, Sherman and Griffen
Out. Howard,(inj), Dickson, Addison,Wallis and Grant.
I would start Cordy in defence and Panos at Full Forward.

[SlimPickens]

Has Griffen been ruled out for next week?
If not

In: Griffen
Out:Howard

[Mofra]

Jones is a great mark .... Shabby kick for goal......I'd play him in the back line to fill for Tom Williams,, and bring Cordy as a forward / ruck....


I Like the idea of Jones going back think it will help his development as a forward.
I really don't like the idea of Jones as a backman - he's a much better forward than backman, presents all day and can take a contested grab.

Composure in front of goal is a massive issue for him at the moment (probably his biggest problem) - one I think can come with time in the F50. He's sure as hell not going to gain it in the backline.

[GVGjr]

Has Griffen been ruled out for next week?
If not

In: Griffen
Out:Howard

He said today that he was 50/50 for next week.

[gohardorgohome]

I really don't like the idea of Jones as a backman - he's a much better forward than backman, presents all day and can take a contested grab.

Composure in front of goal is a massive issue for him at the moment (probably his biggest problem) - one I think can come with time in the F50. He's sure as hell not going to gain it in the backline.

You never know ....Jones might end up as one of the best backmen in the AFL......let's face it....we are not going to win the premiership this year so why not give Cordy a run....try to give Jones the oortunity to gain another facet to his game ...and let him play on the the best forwards in the game....

It's a great way to learn.. I know that Sheedy made Joey Misiti run with Greg Williams in one of his first ever games..... Playing on the best is a great way to learn how to be the best.

[LostDoggy]

We have f all up forward and the only one with any talent there we want as a backman?

[Dry Rot]

.
I would make 5 changes against Adelaide and that doesn't include our two worst players today in Wood and Markovic. Markovic simply isn't good enough to play on the opposition's best key forward as we saw today on Kennedy. Wood makes too many mistakes and is to nervous as a defender. I would however retain his services as a wingman.
It was always going to be a risk in playing just Jones as one key forward and so these are my changes.
In. Cordy,Panos,DJ, Sherman and Griffen
Out. Howard,(inj), Dickson, Addison,Wallis and Grant.
I would start Cordy in defence and Panos at Full Forward.

FWIW McCartney strikes me as someone who will give his players a go, and therefore is unlikely (at this stage anyway) to make wholesale changes.

[jeemak]

I Like the idea of Jones going back think it will help his development as a forward.
In Griffen Cordy
Out Howard Addison
Against The Crows with their height we Must Play Cordy

Who do we play forward instead of him?

Jones had an excellent opportunity to stamp his authority on the game this afternoon, in fact, he had three opportunities to do it in a single quarter. A set shot, and two dribbling kicks that went wide just at the moment when we could have kept level with the Eagles, really left us short from being competitive.

I like Jones, but there is no excuse for missing the opportunities he had today. He needs to work his arse off to ensure those misses don't become habitual throughout his career, because if he doesn't he'll only ever be a very good average footballer.

It might sound harsh, but that's the reality of it. If he had have kicked goals instead of missing them in the third quarter, we'd be talking about a much closer loss or a potential win. In the third quarter he had three chances to positively affect the game, and he didn't take one of them. It's about time he did, and it's about time he got judged on the same level some of our other forwards get judged on.

[Ghost Dog]

Who do we play forward instead of him?

Jones had an excellent opportunity to stamp his authority on the game this afternoon, in fact, he had three opportunities to do it in a single quarter. A set shot, and two dribbling kicks that went wide just at the moment when we could have kept level with the Eagles, really left us short from being competitive.

I like Jones, but there is no excuse for missing the opportunities he had today. He needs to work his arse off to ensure those misses don't become habitual throughout his career, because if he doesn't he'll only ever be a very good average footballer.

It might sound harsh, but that's the reality of it. If he had have kicked goals instead of missing them in the third quarter, we'd be talking about a much closer loss or a potential win. In the third quarter he had three chances to positively affect the game, and he didn't take one of them. It's about time he did, and it's about time he got judged on the same level some of our other forwards get judged on.

Rocket commented on commentary that Liam had fitness issues last year. His view. I'm hoping his accuracy issues are more related to fitness ability and a bit of poise. Boyd was another - ran himself into the ground and perhaps didn't have it in the legs to kick straight. In the presser, Liam was reported to have said he learned three things today he'll keep for the rest of his career. Let's hope those lost goals turn into many more in the future - with interest.

[Before I Die]

I don't understand all the Grant negativity. He was too unselfish and tried to let the ball go through for a goal when he could have marked it, and he missed a gettable goal, not that he was Robinson Crusoe in regard to this. He is clearly not an emotive fellow, after all he is Vulcan, and it seems that a lot of posters don't like this, but for the time he was on the field, he was far from our worst. I think he would have contributed more than Dickson if he had played the whole game.

Out: Howard, Dickson, Wallis

In: DJ, Sherman, Cordy (who I think is mobile enough to play as a Key Position swingman)

[jeemak]

Rocket commented on commentary that Liam had fitness issues last year. His view. I'm hoping his accuracy issues are more related to fitness ability and a bit of poise. Boyd was another - ran himself into the ground and perhaps didn't have it in the legs to kick straight. In the presser, Liam was reported to have said he learned three things today he'll keep for the rest of his career. Let's hope those lost goals turn into many more in the future - with interest.

I think it's concentration. And I think it's something he needs to rectify very shortly.

He was tired, granted. Though, good players at least take two or three out of four opportunities that are presented to them, rather than blowing all of them.

He has the talent to get the opportunity to score, he needs to make the most of them if he's going to be a good footballer. His time is now, and he needs to take responsibility for that.

[Ghost Dog]

I think it's concentration. And I think it's something he needs to rectify very shortly.

He was tired, granted. Though, good players at least take two or three out of four opportunities that are presented to them, rather than blowing all of them.

He has the talent to get the opportunity to score, he needs to make the most of them if he's going to be a good footballer. His time is now, and he needs to take responsibility for that.

Did you see the press conference? Come on man, He's more pissed off about those misses than all of us put together. Back him to make it good for us.

[jeemak]

Did you see the press conference? Come on man, He's more pissed off about those misses than all of us put together. Back him to make it good for us.

I haven't seen the press conference. But my point still stands. If he doesn't take those opportunities now, or in the future he will only be a good average player.

It's good that he feels that he should have made them. Though, any AFL standard player would feel the way he does, if they were serious.

His effort in making the most of his opportunities weren't good today, they may not be good tomorrow, and they may not be good in a few weeks time. If he starts taking those opportunities he'll be an absolute gun though, and as long as he keeps improving I'll be happy.

[Ghost Dog]

I haven't seen the press conference. But my point still stands. If he doesn't take those opportunities now, or in the future he will only be a good average player.

It's good that he feels that he should have made them. Though, any AFL standard player would feel the way he does, if they were serious.

His effort in making the most of his opportunities weren't good today, they may not be good tomorrow, and they may not be good in a few weeks time. If he starts taking those opportunities he'll be an absolute gun though, and as long as he keeps improving I'll be happy.

All these guys do is train day after day to succeed. to question if Liam is serious or not ...well, as the coach said, the kid is living with the label of being the next great hope for the club and puts himself under enormous pressure. That may be exactly WHY he missed those goals. The weight of expectation - who knows. People perform best when they are not too strung out. I'd hesitate to question if a player is serious after one game where they only failed at the last step. I'd prefer to encourage and cheer him on, seeing the 99% he did do right. Anyway, I'm sure Liam is very serious about wanting to kick goals and will improve. Very sure.

[Ozza]

Outs:

Howard injured....but I'm not sure he should be in the side right now anyway.
Addison (would prefer Veszpremi)
Roughead - You can't play a ruckman who shows no physicality.

In:
Griffen (hopefully back fit)
Vezspremi (to replace Addison).
Cordy - to replace Roughead.

Grant is a tough one. Its hard to get into the game as a sub....he looked lost though. Think Grant starting and Dickson as a sub may have been a better play.

[Ghost Dog]

Outs:

Howard injured....but I'm not sure he should be in the side right now anyway.
Addison (would prefer Veszpremi)
Roughead - You can't play a ruckman who shows no physicality.

In:
Griffen (hopefully back fit)
Vezspremi (to replace Addison).
Cordy - to replace Roughead.

Grant is a tough one. Its hard to get into the game as a sub....he looked lost though. Think Grant starting and Dickson as a sub may have been a better play.

What do you think about skinner as a sub? Saw him in Ballarat. Chases like a man possessed.

[jeemak]

All these guys do is train day after day to succeed. to question if Liam is serious or not ...well, as the coach said, the kid is living with the label of being the next great hope for the club and puts himself under enormous pressure. That may be exactly WHY he missed those goals. The weight of expectation - who knows. People perform best when they are not too strung out. I'd hesitate to question if a player is serious after one game where they only failed at the last step. I'd prefer to encourage and cheer him on, seeing the 99% he did do right. Anyway, I'm sure Liam is very serious about wanting to kick goals and will improve. Very sure.

GD, I wasn't questioning if Jones was serious. I was saying any AFL player if serious, would have been disappointed if he didn't make the shots he missed.

I'll encourage and cheer Jones on, but I'll also point out flaws that I see in his game. I'm not one to lambaste players, though in Jones' case yesterday he let himself and the team down with sloppy finishing. It's not the end of the world and I'm hopeful he'll improve, though I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging his finishing wasn't up to standard.

[Mofra]

If he starts taking those opportunities he'll be an absolute gun though, and as long as he keeps improving I'll be happy.
I'd hope most supporters are in the same boat - I still think with more time in the F50 he'll develop the poise & experience to be able to take those opportunities - which is why I think switching a guy who's been developed as a forward his whole career, and has played forward all of the NAB Caup, to defence after one game is sheer lunacy.

[LostDoggy]

My mother, a sweet old thing who knows very little about footy, came to the game on Sunday. In her words.... "That number 22 isn't very good is he and the blond mop is slow and keeps giving it to the other team.."

Wallis will hopefully get there but I'm now convinced Addison won't.

Out: Wallis, Addison, Howard (inj)
In: Cordy, Vezp, Skinner (who looked very good in the half he played in Geelong)

[DragzLS1]

Howard out for Griff


Dont know why everybody is wanting Addison out as he didnt really do much wrong :s competes hard and rarely gets beaten, only by Hill who got 1 infront of goal due to having a better leap then Addison and 1 was a shocking decision to give him a free..

Think he was 1 of the better on the day.

Why we would need to play 3 ruckmen against Adelaide when we didnt play them against West Coast? Think Roughead and Minno will get the job done this week and Boydy may have a Solid game!

Out: Wallis, Howard

In: Griff, Dj

and start Grant on the pitch give him game time and his speed against teh crows will be needed.

Clay Smith straight in the middle with young Libba! Liking these 2 and need to play as many games as possible this year (unless they need a rest)

[BulldogBelle]

A lot of talk about Jones missing those shots for goal on this thread, but there was something I saw in his game that was, in my opinion, a little more worrying and that was his lack of intensity in chasing opposition when he didn't have the ball. There were a couple of efforts throughout the game where he just went at the opposition at half pace.
Up until yesterday, I perceived Jones to be a tireless worker off the ball, and one that was always willing to chase down and put pressure on the opposition. I'm not suggesting that this one showing is indicative of a trend in his play, but I will keep an eye on this part of his game in coming weeks.
Interestingly, Mick Malthouse picked up on this on the 3AW call as well and made a point of it.

[robb]

In: Griff, DJ, Cordy Panos

Out: Howard, Dickson, Grant, Wallis

Why do we persist with Grant????

[Ozza]

What do you think about skinner as a sub? Saw him in Ballarat. Chases like a man possessed.

Its probably a bit hard on Skinner, to play him as a sub again after that was his only opportnity last year. I'd rather he was coming in to actually play once he has worked up a good run of form at Willy.

[Bulldog4life]

OUT: Howard, Wallis,
IN: Cordy (need another tall forward/backman), Djerrkura(for his pace)

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

FWIW McCartney strikes me as someone who will give his players a go, and therefore is unlikely (at this stage anyway) to make wholesale changes.

I believe you could well be right . Our lack of height was obvious yesterday with clearly a lack of marking power around the ground and up forward. To go with just one key forward in Jones is a fallacy. That is why I would like to see both Panos and Cordy included. Griffen is an automatic if fit to come back. Both DJ and Sherman would inject more pace into the side but I can quite understand BMC's reluctance to make too many changes.

[LostDoggy]

Why are people suggesting DJ? He runs quick in circles? I dont understand.

Anyway..
In: Griff, Sherms
Out: Howard, Dickson

[Desipura]

Why are people suggesting DJ? He runs quick in circles? I dont understand.

Anyway..
In: Griff, Sherms
Out: Howard, Dickson
As opposed to Sherman? Are you serious?

[gohardorgohome]

I have trouble understanding why so many people want Wallis to be dropped... i thought he showed a few signs on the weekend.... Playing at AFL level can only help his development......

The first question asked before anyone is selected is "Is a guy good enough to be a premiership player by 2014/15?" or "will a player help our younger players develop enough to be premiership players in 2014/15" ...... Dont pick them if the answer is no......

Wallis will be good enough in time....he seems to be finding it ball better at AFL level...... his disposal efficiancy was 72% (Not great but better than 13 others)....

I noticed that Addison is listed as 100% disposal efficiency...... Well done...... I hope you stick it to the doubters this year....

[Mofra]

I have trouble understanding why so many people want Wallis to be dropped... i thought he showed a few signs on the weekend.... Playing at AFL level can only help his development......
I though Wallis was terrible early but improved quiet a bit as the game wore on. Actually started to show some decent signs by the last quarter. I still think he is a bit of time away.

[LostDoggy]

We need to get rid of one less plodder in the midfield. Griffen will have an impact but I like the looks of DJ this season and Cross is my number one player to be moved on in this development year. He may be better than some of the kids right now but they need games to improve.

[bornadog]

Griffen set to play this week, following on from training.

[Mofra]

Griffen set to play this week, following on from training.
Excellent news, we badly missed him last week

[LostDoggy]

Excellent news, we badly missed him last week

Yep we are a match more dangerous side with Griff playing,

[LostDoggy]

As opposed to Sherman? Are you serious?

Are you saying DJ is better than Sherman?

[Mantis]

We need to get rid of one less plodder in the midfield. Griffen will have an impact but I like the looks of DJ this season and Cross is my number one player to be moved on in this development year. He may be better than some of the kids right now but they need games to improve.

But Cross is only one game into a 2 year contract... It would be a waste of money to have playing at Willi for all that time.

[Prince Imperial]

Are you saying DJ is better than Sherman?

Sherman looked better in 2011 for sure but I watched the VFL game on Saturday and DJ was far superior. His ball handling and disposal were very good. He was an emergency for the Dogs last week and would be a strong chance to play against Adelaide. If Griff doesn't pull up then I think he's a certainty.

[always right]

But Cross is only one game into a 2 year contract... It would be a waste of money to have playing at Willi for all that time.

And regardless of what any of us think on here, it is apparent that he is popular amongst his team mates and the coaches value what he brings to the team.

[Bulldog Revolution]

In: Griffen, DJ

Out: Howard, Wallis

If Griffen is not available then I need to rethink my changes

[Ghost Dog]

In: Griffen, DJ

Out: Howard, Wallis

If Griffen is not available then I need to rethink my changes

Medical report on the WB site says he's off their books. So good to go.

[GVGjr]

But Cross is only one game into a 2 year contract... It would be a waste of money to have playing at Willi for all that time.

Exactly. Cross still has plenty to offer us.

[Desipura]

Are you saying DJ is better than Sherman?
Are you saying Sherman does not run around in circles like DJ?

[azabob]

In: Griffen, DJ

Out: Howard, Wallis

If Griffen is not available then I need to rethink my changes


Medical report on the WB site says he's off their books. So good to go.

I'd be surprised if Griffen plays. No inside knowledge but haven't heard anyone from the club say yes Griffen will play.

[Mantis]

Exactly. Cross still has plenty to offer us.

But the point AW made is relevant in that it's going to be hard to fit all our one-pacers in the team .ie. Gia, Cross, Boyd, Libba, Smith, Wallis & Higgins.

At present Wallis probably misses, but if he performs well at Willi we need to get games into him for his own development.

[Ozza]

I have trouble understanding why so many people want Wallis to be dropped... i thought he showed a few signs on the weekend.... Playing at AFL level can only help his development......

The first question asked before anyone is selected is "Is a guy good enough to be a premiership player by 2014/15?" or "will a player help our younger players develop enough to be premiership players in 2014/15" ...... Dont pick them if the answer is no......

Wallis will be good enough in time....he seems to be finding it ball better at AFL level...... his disposal efficiancy was 72% (Not great but better than 13 others)....

I noticed that Addison is listed as 100% disposal efficiency...... Well done...... I hope you stick it to the doubters this year....

I'm with you on Wallis. Very harsh judgement on him so far by many. If you think back to Cross and Boyd's early careers - Cross spent his first 10 games running around not getting the ball at all, and Boyd was a fill in back flanker from the rookie list who only got a game when we had injuries. Both improved out of sight and have had very good careers. Wallis has plenty of time - and this is the time for him to develop.

We as supporters need to exercise a bit of patience, both with players, and the side as a whole. Its not so much about how we go this week, and this year - its about building towards our next strong side.

[Ozza]

I'd be surprised if Griffen plays. No inside knowledge but haven't heard anyone from the club say yes Griffen will play.

It was plastered on the Herald Sun website yesterday that Daniel Cross said Griffen will play.

[G-Mo77]

At present Wallis probably misses, but if he performs well at Willi we need to get games into him for his own development.

I'm happy to leave him in the team for his own development. He was yo-yoed last season and I'd rather let him have 4 - 5 games in a row at AFL level before even considering dropping him. Let the kid find his feet because he was taken high people don't seem to have as much patience.

[Mofra]

And regardless of what any of us think on here, it is apparent that he is popular amongst his team mates and the coaches value what he brings to the team.
No 1 for scoring involvements at the club last year.
Cross has limitations, but has attributes too that rarely seem to be acknolwledged by his own fans.

[azabob]

It was plastered on the Herald Sun website yesterday that Daniel Cross said Griffen will play.

Thanks.

That will teach me for not reading the herald sun.....

[SlimPickens]

I'm with you on Wallis. Very harsh judgement on him so far by many. If you think back to Cross and Boyd's early careers - Cross spent his first 10 games running around not getting the ball at all, and Boyd was a fill in back flanker from the rookie list who only got a game when we had injuries. Both improved out of sight and have had very good careers. Wallis has plenty of time - and this is the time for him to develop.

We as supporters need to exercise a bit of patience, both with players, and the side as a whole. Its not so much about how we go this week, and this year - its about building towards our next strong side.

Agree just re-watched the game and thought Wallis was far from our worst. Some of his contested work was very impressive as well as his use by hand. It was one of his better games so far and i'd like to see him get a good run at it with a number of games at AFL level.

I also agree that we need patience. We are no longer a contender but a developing side. We need to put game time into the players that are going to be taking us to our next tilt at the top four and hopefully a premiership.

[DragzLS1]

Agree just re-watched the game and thought Wallis was far from our worst. Some of his contested work was very impressive as well as his use by hand. It was one of his better games so far and i'd like to see him get a good run at it with a number of games at AFL level.

I also agree that we need patience. We are no longer a contender but a developing side. We need to put game time into the players that are going to be taking us to our next tilt at the top four and hopefully a premiership.


I think your right about Wallis. Even though he is nothing special atm (refer to Dahlhaus) we can all see an improvement in him and as you mentioned we are not a title contender. I dont mind him on the bench and getting game time as he isnt exactly our worst player and always tries his hardest.

[comrade]

I'm with you on Wallis. Very harsh judgement on him so far by many. If you think back to Cross and Boyd's early careers - Cross spent his first 10 games running around not getting the ball at all, and Boyd was a fill in back flanker from the rookie list who only got a game when we had injuries. Both improved out of sight and have had very good careers. Wallis has plenty of time - and this is the time for him to develop.

We as supporters need to exercise a bit of patience, both with players, and the side as a whole. Its not so much about how we go this week, and this year - its about building towards our next strong side.

Whilst I agree with you, the expectation on Wallis should be much higher due to the 'price' we paid to get him (first round pick). I think he'll turn out to be a good player and I was as bullish on him as anyone pre-draft, but it's another example of us having used a first round pick on a player with some significant deficiencies.

[stefoid]

out : wallis, howard, dickson
in: grif, DJ, cordy

[Mantis]

Whilst I agree with you, the expectation on Wallis should be much higher due to the 'price' we paid to get him (first round pick). I think he'll turn out to be a good player and I was as bullish on him as anyone pre-draft, but it's another example of us having used a first round pick on a player with some significant deficiencies.

But he wasn't a first rounder by choice, rather we were forced into it by the F/S bidding system.

If by this system we had taken Libba as the 1st rounder and Wallis as the 2nd rounder would we be questioning the decision?... Many recruiters rated them this way (it was rumoured Dalrymple did too), but in the end the order doesn't really matter.

[Ozza]

Whilst I agree with you, the expectation on Wallis should be much higher due to the 'price' we paid to get him (first round pick). I think he'll turn out to be a good player and I was as bullish on him as anyone pre-draft, but it's another example of us having used a first round pick on a player with some significant deficiencies.

He's played 7 games, and he is no longer the 'top dog' in terms of being the ball winner like he was at Calder. Different players adjust differently to moving up to the significantly higher level. When Boyd and Cross are getting it 70 times between them - there's only so much footy to go around. And Libba appears to have been more suited to the step up so far.

I don't think you can label him with 'significant deficiencies' after 7 games of AFL footy.

[SlimPickens]

Whilst I agree with you, the expectation on Wallis should be much higher due to the 'price' we paid to get him (first round pick). I think he'll turn out to be a good player and I was as bullish on him as anyone pre-draft, but it's another example of us having used a first round pick on a player with some significant deficiencies.

The price that we paid for Wallis was dictated by the other teams in the competition. Maybe as a general rule our expectations on first/second year players has increased due to immediate impact some are having (Selwood, Heppell etc). The majority however need time to develop and i put Mitch in that basket.

[LostDoggy]

In - Griffen, DJ

Out - Howard, Roughead

I think we go small for this one. Adelaide only have Jacobs rucking with Tippett giving him a chopout. Jones can play this role for us

They won't stretch us forward as much as West Coast did, Lake to take Tippet, Marko on Walker and Wood on Porps. Hargave on the third tall (Lynch/Henderson)

Dickson so start sub.

[bornadog]

Thanks.

That will teach me for not reading the herald sun.....

or the entire thread;)

[LostDoggy]

Sherman looked better in 2011 for sure but I watched the VFL game on Saturday and DJ was far superior. His ball handling and disposal were very good. He was an emergency for the Dogs last week and would be a strong chance to play against Adelaide. If Griff doesn't pull up then I think he's a certainty.


Are you saying Sherman does not run around in circles like DJ?

Thanks Prince. I haven't had the benefit of seeing the DJ and its great to hear he looks to have improved significantly. While he occasionally does look like a chook with its head removed, Sherman also is a proven AFL performer and goal kicker who runs in straight lines as well as in circles. My recollections of DJ in the AFL last year were of someone well below AFL quality who could get the ball but then had no idea what to do with it, running around in circles on the spot.

Des, why answer a question with a question? I was looking for an answer on why people were putting DJ up for selection, PI above had an intelligent crack at this. I have not seen the guy play this year. Your initial answer(another question) was also hard to fathom the point you were trying to make.




We as supporters need to exercise a bit of patience, both with players, and the side as a whole. Its not so much about how we go this week, and this year - its about building towards our next strong side.

I like what your saying.

[mighty_west]

Whilst I agree with you, the expectation on Wallis should be much higher due to the 'price' we paid to get him (first round pick). I think he'll turn out to be a good player and I was as bullish on him as anyone pre-draft, but it's another example of us having used a first round pick on a player with some significant deficiencies.

Many players, even highly rated juniors have significant defiencies when stepping up to the big league, Clay Smith also has some in regarding his skills,

i also remember a certain Dane Swan trying to find his feet for a long time, he turned out ok, some of these kids no matter on how they are rated as juniors just take longer than others.

[Desipura]

Thanks Prince. I haven't had the benefit of seeing the DJ and its great to hear he looks to have improved significantly. While he occasionally does look like a chook with its head removed, Sherman also is a proven AFL performer and goal kicker who runs in straight lines as well as in circles. My recollections of DJ in the AFL last year were of someone well below AFL quality who could get the ball but then had no idea what to do with it, running around in circles on the spot.

Des, why answer a question with a question? I was looking for an answer on why people were putting DJ up for selection, PI above had an intelligent crack at this. I have not seen the guy play this year. Your initial answer(another question) was also hard to fathom the point you were trying to make.




I like what your saying.
Ok, what I am saying is both run around in circles, maybe DJ runs an extra circle (I guess that could be called the figure eight)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I've been harsh on Wallis, and I am still very critical of his overall game ad what he actually brings to the table -- but he played OK on the weekend. He won a few contested balls and his disposal was better.

He just needs to keep it really simple with his disposal.

Sadly, so does three quarters of the team..

[jeemak]

The price that we paid for Wallis was dictated by the other teams in the competition. Maybe as a general rule our expectations on first/second year players has increased due to immediate impact some are having (Selwood, Heppell etc). The majority however need time to develop and i put Mitch in that basket.

The price we paid for Wallis was dictated by our football department, not the other teams. Perhaps you're right and I'm naive, though I really hope sentimentality didn't come into the selection.

[Greystache]

Agree just re-watched the game and thought Wallis was far from our worst. Some of his contested work was very impressive as well as his use by hand. It was one of his better games so far and i'd like to see him get a good run at it with a number of games at AFL level.

I also agree that we need patience. We are no longer a contender but a developing side. We need to put game time into the players that are going to be taking us to our next tilt at the top four and hopefully a premiership.

I thought it was probably his best game for the club, having said that I still think he should go back to Willi this week.

The problem is he's a player type we just have too many of at the moment, and of that player type he's producing the least (eg Boyd, Cross, Libba, Smith). The team is unbalanced and we need more run, and while giving young players game time and developing them is important, we can't have an unbalanced team where some players are having to play a role that doesn't suit them, eg Boyd trying to drill passes into the forward line.

If we're going to take a purely developmental approach we have to look to give players like Wallis game time in front of players who deserve it more. Personally I can't see a new coach taking that approach after 1 round of footy.

[DragzLS1]

Clay Smith and Wallis to have around 12-15 game this year (rotate, if 1 plays the other doesnt)

Even though we already are loving Smith I think it is important we dont throw him in too early. Limit the amount of games they play with more experienced player around them this year which should see them take another step by next season.

I think its jsut as important for the young guys to play with the experienced guys as they will learn a few things throughout the course of the year. Rather then playing all the kids as much as possible and letting them learn on their own. (e.g Richmond and Melbourne :p)

[azabob]

or the entire thread;)

Are you referring to your post yesterday? I was unsure were you got that info from.

[comrade]

I don't think you can label him with 'significant deficiencies' after 7 games of AFL footy.

I think you can, but he has time to overcome them just as Swan, Boyd and Cross have.

But, these guys weren't first round picks and you expect lower picks to have areas of their game that require serious work.

[LostDoggy]

But Cross is only one game into a 2 year contract... It would be a waste of money to have playing at Willi for all that time.

No club has ever wasted money on players? Regardless of contracts we need to pick the side that will take us forward. If Cross or any other senior players plays in the seconds to give players experience I can see no issue with that.

[SlimPickens]

The price we paid for Wallis was dictated by our football department, not the other teams. Perhaps you're right and I'm naive, though I really hope sentimentality didn't come into the selection.

That's not true, it's a bidding system. We said that we would take Wallis and Libba under father son selection it was than the other clubs which put a pick against them. Port Adelaide said they would use their first pick which meant we had to match it to get the player, exactly the same thing happened with Libba with Sydney offering their second pick.

[mighty_west]

No club has ever wasted money on players? Regardless of contracts we need to pick the side that will take us forward. If Cross or any other senior players plays in the seconds to give players experience I can see no issue with that.

Agreed, i'd much rather pump games into players like Wallis, we are clearly in a re-building phase, it's a no brainer regardless of players contracts, Mulligan was given a contract [for whatever reason] and has and will most likely play out most of this season at Willy.

[jeemak]

That's not true, it's a bidding system. We said that we would take Wallis and Libba under father son selection it was than the other clubs which put a pick against them. Port Adelaide said they would use their first pick which meant we had to match it to get the player, exactly the same thing happened with Libba with Sydney offering their second pick.

If we didn't think either were worth the picks other teams were willing to pay for them we weren't obliged to pick them. The rules provide for this as a safety net against teams bluffing to force clubs to use lower picks.

[SlimPickens]

If we didn't think either were worth the picks other teams were willing to pay for them we weren't obliged to pick them. The rules provide for this as a safety net against teams bluffing to force clubs to use lower picks.

Very true and all that implies is that we weren't the only team that rated Wallis highly.

[SlimPickens]

Anyways back to the thread topic, after re-watching the game i'd make 2 changes

Out: Howard, Roughy
In:Griffen, Cordy

[LostDoggy]

Anyways back to the thread topic, after re-watching the game i'd make 2 changes

Out: Howard, Roughy
In:Griffen, Cordy

I thought we were too small up forward so I would still have Roughead in. One of the small forwards to go and be replaced by Cordy. Who could play back if needed. Which gives us more flexibility. If not Cordy then Panos.

[stefoid]

He's played 7 games, and he is no longer the 'top dog' in terms of being the ball winner like he was at Calder. Different players adjust differently to moving up to the significantly higher level. When Boyd and Cross are getting it 70 times between them - there's only so much footy to go around. And Libba appears to have been more suited to the step up so far.

I don't think you can label him with 'significant deficiencies' after 7 games of AFL footy.

Its not how many times he gets it with Wally Jnr, its what he does with it thats the main issue. He turns it over.

I agree with greystache - DJ, Sherman or Tutt will offer something different to a midfield that is already groaning with one-paced bulldozers. I think the development of the TEAM demands we field a more balanced midfield.

Wallis will develop well enough at williamstown this year, and having less pressure on him may be good for him to add some flair to his game.

[Mofra]

I thought we were too small up forward so I would still have Roughead in. One of the small forwards to go and be replaced by Cordy. Who could play back if needed. Which gives us more flexibility. If not Cordy then Panos.
Does that rob us of run though?

West Coast spread from the contests and ran the ball through us, another tall in the F50 doesn't really address our main issue.

[1eyedog]

Was DJ best for Willy with Cordy 2nd?

Out:
Howard, Addison

In:
Griffen, Vez

Tempted with Cordy but we were out-run today, Cordy won't help with that.

Marko certainly didn't help. I would substitute Marko for Cordy and play Cordy on Tippett, find out some things about Cordy. Tippet could kick as many on Marko's inability to read the ball through the air as he could using his strength advantage against cordy.

Griff and Sherman to come in to add the run you're talking about at the expense of Howard and Addison. I'd leave Grant in.

[LostDoggy]

Does that rob us of run though?

West Coast spread from the contests and ran the ball through us, another tall in the F50 doesn't really address our main issue.

Do all forwards play in the middle? As all don't I don't see your point. Coast have 4 tall forwards so the reverse question applies. Why did they have more run with less mids. Simply they were fitter and quicker across the board and that makes it look like we need more players in the middle when simply the guys in there couldn't keep up. They also had a mid as there sub.

Another question. What happens if a tall back goes down? who plays on there talls then? We desperately need a utility type who can switch ends when needed.

[always right]

Marko certainly didn't help. I would substitute Marko for Cordy and play Cordy on Tippett, find out some things about Cordy. Tippet could kick as many on Marko's inability to read the ball through the air as he could using his strength advantage against cordy.

Griff and Sherman to come in to add the run you're talking about at the expense of Howard and Addison. I'd leave Grant in.

Lake normally plays on Tippett and I expect the same again this weekend.

[Ozza]

Anyways back to the thread topic, after re-watching the game i'd make 2 changes

Out: Howard, Roughy
In:Griffen, Cordy

Glad you're on board with this one Slim. Roughy is very frustrating in recent times. I can handle him being outclassed or out-hussled by superior ruckman - but get the big frame in the way of some other bodies occasionally Roughy!

[chef]

I thought we were too small up forward so I would still have Roughead in. One of the small forwards to go and be replaced by Cordy. Who could play back if needed. Which gives us more flexibility. If not Cordy then Panos.

How does Roughead help us get bigger up forward as he offers us nothing there.

[Ozza]

Its not how many times he gets it with Wally Jnr, its what he does with it thats the main issue. He turns it over.

Wallis will develop well enough at williamstown this year, and having less pressure on him may be good for him to add some flair to his game.

I can only remember one bad blunder on the weekend - and it was an inside 50 kick. And to be fair - Jones was orginally about 20 out for goal - and by the time Wallis kicked - Jones took off on the lead - so it was unfortunate.

[SlimPickens]

Glad you're on board with this one Slim. Roughy is very frustrating in recent times. I can handle him being outclassed or out-hussled by superior ruckman - but get the big frame in the way of some other bodies occasionally Roughy!

The one incident (of many) that really stood, was the lack of body contact on Nic Nat in the goal square. He lined him up for a bump and missed completely, this was bad enough as he should have tackled in the first place and his physicality was completely misplaced. He has a big frame and he needs to use it.

The other thing noted was his unwillingness to put himself in an effective position whether attacking or defensive as part of our structure, this may be partly to do with his engine but he needs to work on it.

[LostDoggy]

How does Roughead help us get bigger up forward as he offers us nothing there.

Disagree. He definatively had a bad game against West Coast however he looked very good against Geelong the week before. Not everyone is a Nic Nat walk in and play tall. Roughy is a more traditionally (read frustratingly) developing tall and he still needs time. We need to get games into him and he'll sometimes hit and sometimes miss. I think we'll see he's at least a 150 gamer. And whilst I say he's no Nic Nat nor is he an Ilija Grgic either....

[LostDoggy]

How does Roughead help us get bigger up forward as he offers us nothing there.

At-least read the whole post.



Originally Posted by Asylum Ward
I thought we were too small up forward so I would still have Roughead in. One of the small forwards to go and be replaced by Cordy. Who could play back if needed. Which gives us more flexibility. If not Cordy then Panos.


Roughead to stay as Ruck/Forward.

[BulldogBelle]

We will struggle while we have a 'best 22" mentality. Case in point - it's not 'who' we want at FF, but 'how' we want that position played. Lead up 190-193cm type, or a 200cm tall. We lack speed up forward - to many 184cm-ish medium paced guys that all play the same role (Gia, Dickson, Smith, Higgins), and only one genuine speedster.(D-haus). Need two. We need two key forwards, not one and a ruckman. I'd play Minson, Roughead and Cordy, Cordy at FF. Adelaide rotate Tippett through the midfield so we only need two key defenders. (Needed three last week - and we waste Shaggy as the 3rd tall defender year in-year out).
We need to be analysing our needs as far as structures go first, then put names to roles.

The team I would like to see this week -
Back six - Lake, Markovic, Hargrave, Addison, Wood, Murphy,
Midfield - Minson, Cross, Libratore, Boyd, Cooney, Griffin
Fwds - Jones, Cordy, DJ, Dalhaus, Gia, Roughead
Int - Higgins, Wallis, Picken, Smith,
Ins - Cordy, Griffin, DJ
Out - Dickson, Howard, Grant.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I thought it was probably his best game for the club, having said that I still think he should go back to Willi this week.

The problem is he's a player type we just have too many of at the moment, and of that player type he's producing the least (eg Boyd, Cross, Libba, Smith). The team is unbalanced and we need more run, and while giving young players game time and developing them is important, we can't have an unbalanced team where some players are having to play a role that doesn't suit them, eg Boyd trying to drill passes into the forward line.

If we're going to take a purely developmental approach we have to look to give players like Wallis game time in front of players who deserve it more. Personally I can't see a new coach taking that approach after 1 round of footy.

There is a tendency now to push young players up to quickly. Smith and Liberatore look stronger inside players and as such would be in front of Wallis at the moment. I think Wallis will eventually become a good player but may need more time. Both DJ and Sherman would add pace to our team which isn't quick enough amongst our midfielders. The run and efficiency of Griffen was sadly missing last week, which wasn't helped by Boyd's only 30 % effectiveness.

[JohnGentStand]

Ins, Griffen . Cordy
Outs, Howard . Roughy
I thought Roughy was in our worst 3 , with Marko & Wood
Not many posters want to drop Wood but he was bloody aweful on Sunday. I dont think he can stay in @ 1/2 back for much longer.

[bornadog]

Not many posters want to drop Wood but he was bloody aweful on Sunday. I dont think he can stay in @ 1/2 back for much longer.

Yep, I mentioned this in a previous thread/post can't remember. Last year I was calling for him to be dropped to learn more and Develop more at Willi and was was shot down, so you better watch it there:D

Do you think Vez should be given a go at HBF?

[LostDoggy]

Ok, what I am saying is both run around in circles, maybe DJ runs an extra circle (I guess that could be called the figure eight)

Nice! Maybe if we play them both we can really confuse the Adelaide Cows ;)

[Ghost Dog]

Nice! Maybe if we play them both we can really confuse the Adelaide Cows ;)

Stack used to do some nice circle work:D Ah those were the days.

[chef]

At-least read the whole post.




Roughead to stay as Ruck/Forward.

So you would play 3 rucks.

When ones forward and the other is rucking where do you hide the last one?

[G-Mo77]

So you would play 3 rucks.

When ones forward and the other is rucking where do you hide the last one?

Cordy has been playing back at Willy and did last season when he got injured you could possibly line him up there on one of the Crows talls. The advantage we have with Cordy is that he's pretty mobile so he's not as much of a liability in certain parts of the ground as much as Roughead or Minson.

[Desipura]

Stack used to do some nice circle work:D Ah those were the days.
Maybe these players were told to play like you train and took it literally? :D

[chef]

Cordy has been playing back at Willy and did last season when he got injured you could possibly line him up there on one of the Crows talls. The advantage we have with Cordy is that he's pretty mobile so he's not as much of a liability in certain parts of the ground as much as Roughead or Minson.

I agree with playing Cordy over Roughead as he is able to play(or pinch hit) in more than one position, something Roughie can't do IMO.

I just don't like the idea of playing 3 rucks and can't see it happening, the last thing we need is a ruckman resting on the bench all day.

[G-Mo77]

I agree with playing Cordy over Roughead as he is able to play(or pinch hit) in more than one position, something Roughie can't do IMO.

I just don't like the idea of playing 3 rucks and can't see it happening, the last thing we need is a ruckman resting on the bench all day.

I could have seen 3 rucks in last week. Cordy just plays back on the resting rucks. We were slaughtered because of the height they had down there and I think Cordy may have been helpful.

[chef]

I could have seen 3 rucks in last week. Cordy just plays back on the resting rucks. We were slaughtered because of the height they had down there and I think Cordy may have been helpful.

The only tall that gave us real problems was Kennedy and I couldn't see Cordy doing a better job on him than Marko.

[G-Mo77]

The only tall that gave us real problems was Kennedy and I couldn't see Cordy doing a better job on him than Marko.

Cordy on the resting rucks which frees up Brian to help out on Kennedy.

I'm not saying it would have worked but it's an argument for playing all 3. I wouldn't have gone all 3 anyway and rathered Cordy in instead of Roughead.

[bornadog]

The only tall that gave us real problems was Kennedy and I couldn't see Cordy doing a better job on him than Marko.

If you play Cordy as well as Minson and Roughead then one has to play a KPP role and not ruck.

[Ozza]

If we look to next week - who will get the job on Riewoldt. That almost needs to be decided this week by who plays on Taylor Walker who is more the CHF type than Tippett.

Scary prospect who gets the big St.Kilda sook.

[bornadog]

Scary prospect who gets the big St.Kilda sook.

Bwain

[Ozza]

Bwain

Well thats just frightening. I really do hope that the real(the old) Brian comes back soon - but he certainly wasn't on the ground on Sunday. He was hopeless. and he's going to need to get around on a motorbike to be within ear shot of Riewoldt.

With Morris out - the defence is pretty grim.

Lake is not the same player, Marko and Williams try hard - but lets face it - are ordinary footballers - and Shaggy is not suited to playing on tall, strong players.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If you play Cordy as well as Minson and Roughead then one has to play a KPP role and not ruck.

This.

Cordy's not really ready to play ruck at AFL level, anyway.

He's a KPF who can pinch hit in the ruck at VFL level. Translating that to AFL, I'd say Cordy should be played exclusively as a KPF who takes the ruck duties in the forward half and is given a license to push up the ground -- such is his mobility.

We should play all 3 of Minson, Cordy and Roughead.

Jones has been getting monstered all pre-season. A mobile Cordy could help a bit, and I think Skinner needs to be considered too.

[Rocco Jones]

Just on Roughead. It seems a lot of posters treat his role as if he primarily plays in the ruck and spends a bit of time pinch hitting as a ruckman where actually it is the opposite.

As a number 2 to Minson, you probably need to be able to spend at least twice as much up forward then you do in the ruck. I rate Roughy as a 1st ruck but the 2nd ruck role really doesn't suit him IMO as he gives us very little up forward.

Minson, Roughy, Cordy and Markovic in the same 22 shows an ignorance of the demands of the modern game.

[Cyberdoggie]

Just on Roughead. It seems a lot of posters treat his role as if he primarily plays in the ruck and spends a bit of time pinch hitting as a ruckman where actually it is the opposite.

As a number 2 to Minson, you probably need to be able to spend at least twice as much up forward then you do in the ruck. I rate Roughy as a 1st ruck but the 2nd ruck role really doesn't suit him IMO as he gives us very little up forward.

Minson, Roughy, Cordy and Markovic in the same 22 shows an ignorance of the demands of the modern game.

As does having Grant as a sub. :confused:

[bornadog]

Well thats just frightening. I really do hope that the real(the old) Brian comes back soon - but he certainly wasn't on the ground on Sunday. He was hopeless. and he's going to need to get around on a motorbike to be within ear shot of Riewoldt.

With Morris out - the defence is pretty grim.

Lake is not the same player, Marko and Williams try hard - but lets face it - are ordinary footballers - and Shaggy is not suited to playing on tall, strong players.

Well who do you suggest?

[Mofra]

Do all forwards play in the middle? As all don't I don't see your point. Coast have 4 tall forwards so the reverse question applies. Why did they have more run with less mids. Simply they were fitter and quicker across the board and that makes it look like we need more players in the middle when simply the guys in there couldn't keep up. They also had a mid as there sub.
No, but you mentioned "small forwards" in your post and only one (Dickson) didn't run through the middle. Effectively we lose a runner by losing one - even Dickson played a high forward role at times.

Run is more important to us at this stage IMO

[LostDoggy]

We will struggle while we have a 'best 22" mentality. Case in point - it's not 'who' we want at FF, but 'how' we want that position played. Lead up 190-193cm type, or a 200cm tall. We lack speed up forward - to many 184cm-ish medium paced guys that all play the same role (Gia, Dickson, Smith, Higgins), and only one genuine speedster.(D-haus). Need two. We need two key forwards, not one and a ruckman. I'd play Minson, Roughead and Cordy, Cordy at FF. Adelaide rotate Tippett through the midfield so we only need two key defenders. (Needed three last week - and we waste Shaggy as the 3rd tall defender year in-year out).
We need to be analysing our needs as far as structures go first, then put names to roles.

The team I would like to see this week -
Back six - Lake, Markovic, Hargrave, Addison, Wood, Murphy,
Midfield - Minson, Cross, Libratore, Boyd, Cooney, Griffin
Fwds - Jones, Cordy, DJ, Dalhaus, Gia, Roughead
Int - Higgins, Wallis, Picken, Smith,
Ins - Cordy, Griffin, DJ
Out - Dickson, Howard, Grant.

I like the look of that team as well. DJ needs to come in and as a forward who can play mid looks good to me.

[LostDoggy]

So you would play 3 rucks.

When ones forward and the other is rucking where do you hide the last one?

I think Cordy can play as a key position player and would play him at full forward and Jones at CHF. If needed he could have a stint in the ruck.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Just on Roughead. It seems a lot of posters treat his role as if he primarily plays in the ruck and spends a bit of time pinch hitting as a ruckman where actually it is the opposite.

As a number 2 to Minson, you probably need to be able to spend at least twice as much up forward then you do in the ruck. I rate Roughy as a 1st ruck but the 2nd ruck role really doesn't suit him IMO as he gives us very little up forward.

Minson, Roughy, Cordy and Markovic in the same 22 shows an ignorance of the demands of the modern game.

Ignorance is a bit much.

Roughy is still very young and inexperienced -- do you expect him to be dominating up forward? Jones shows a lot of promise, but he isn't exactly dominating either. Grant is borderline struggling.

In time, Roughead should be able to offer something up forward. We need to keep persisting and, more importantly, teaching.

To simply throw Roughy in the "too hard" basket is a cop out. Develop him in the role -- that's what the coaches are for, and that's what this season should be for.

[DragzLS1]

Just on Roughead. It seems a lot of posters treat his role as if he primarily plays in the ruck and spends a bit of time pinch hitting as a ruckman where actually it is the opposite.

As a number 2 to Minson, you probably need to be able to spend at least twice as much up forward then you do in the ruck. I rate Roughy as a 1st ruck but the 2nd ruck role really doesn't suit him IMO as he gives us very little up forward.

Minson, Roughy, Cordy and Markovic in the same 22 shows an ignorance of the demands of the modern game.

I would have Minno sitting up forward for most of the game and is better 1 on 1 then any of our other forwards imo, leave Roughead in the ruck for most of it.

Although Cordy has kicked 4 over the last 2 weekends if I recall correctly so may be another forward option rather then jones and roghead..

[Rocco Jones]

Ignorance is a bit much.

Roughy is still very young and inexperienced -- do you expect him to be dominating up forward? Jones shows a lot of promise, but he isn't exactly dominating either. Grant is borderline struggling.

In time, Roughead should be able to offer something up forward. We need to keep persisting and, more importantly, teaching.

To simply throw Roughy in the "too hard" basket is a cop out. Develop him in the role -- that's what the coaches are for, and that's what this season should be for.

I agree with a lot of that however I didn't say it was ignorant to pay him, I said it was ignorant to play him alongside Minson, Cordy and Markovic. Not to mention Lake as well, that's a lot of guys who aren't mobile + don't offer us much anyway.

[chef]

Has Roughie ever showed much as a forward at Willi?

[Bulldog4life]

We will struggle while we have a 'best 22" mentality. Case in point - it's not 'who' we want at FF, but 'how' we want that position played. Lead up 190-193cm type, or a 200cm tall. We lack speed up forward - to many 184cm-ish medium paced guys that all play the same role (Gia, Dickson, Smith, Higgins), and only one genuine speedster.(D-haus). Need two. We need two key forwards, not one and a ruckman. I'd play Minson, Roughead and Cordy, Cordy at FF. Adelaide rotate Tippett through the midfield so we only need two key defenders. (Needed three last week - and we waste Shaggy as the 3rd tall defender year in-year out).
We need to be analysing our needs as far as structures go first, then put names to roles.

The team I would like to see this week -
Back six - Lake, Markovic, Hargrave, Addison, Wood, Murphy,
Midfield - Minson, Cross, Libratore, Boyd, Cooney, Griffin
Fwds - Jones, Cordy, DJ, Dalhaus, Gia, Roughead
Int - Higgins, Wallis, Picken, Smith,
Ins - Cordy, Griffin, DJ
Out - Dickson, Howard, Grant.

I like this team.

[Ozza]

Well who do you suggest?

I'm not suggesting anyone - I'm just saying its pretty bloody dire back there right now!

[bornadog]

I'm not suggesting anyone - I'm just saying its pretty bloody dire back there right now!

Well lets hope Lake comes good.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

The only tall that gave us real problems was Kennedy and I couldn't see Cordy doing a better job on him than Marko.

Were you happy to concede 7 goals last week! It made sense for our best key defender Lake to have taken Kennedy allowing Markovic to handle the resting ruckmen. Even more puzzling was to leave Markovic on Kennedy after he kicked 4 goals in the opening quarter.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Has roughie ever showed much as a forward at willi?

Brief stints here and there, but much like the rest of his game -- it's all been inconsistent, as you would expect from a 20 y.o ruck.

[Mantis]

I'm not suggesting anyone - I'm just saying its pretty bloody dire back there right now!

Riewoldt isn't the same player he was so it's not as concerning as it would have been a few years back.

Of more concern will be nullifying Adelaide's big forwards this week.

[SlimPickens]

Riewoldt isn't the same player he was so it's not as concerning as it would have been a few years back.

Of more concern will be nullifying Adelaide's big forwards this week.

Yep, Marko on Walker and Lake on Tippet.

We need to have an affect on the delivery, if we give Adelaide as much time to deliver it as we did with WCE we're in trouble.

[chef]

Brief stints here and there, but much like the rest of his game -- it's all been inconsistent, as you would expect from a 20 y.o ruck.

Fair enough, thanks mate.

[LostDoggy]

FB.....Djerrkura.......Lake......Wood
HB.....Hargrave....Markovic...Murphy
C.......Picken......Liberatore...Higgins
HF.....Cooney........Jones......Dickson
FF.Giansiracusa.....Panos......Dahlhaus

FOLL..Minson..Boyd..Cross

INTERCHANGE ..Roughead..Smith..Wallis

SUB..Skinner

In..Panos..Djerrkura..Skinner

Out..Howard( inj )..Addison..Grant


.

[chef]

Were you happy to concede 7 goals last week! It made sense for our best key defender Lake to have taken Kennedy allowing Markovic to handle the resting ruckmen. Even more puzzling was to leave Markovic on Kennedy after he kicked 4 goals in the opening quarter.

I wasn't happy(obviously), but couldn't see Cordy doing much of a better job than Markovic as a KPD. Could you?

[1eyedog]

Lake normally plays on Tippett and I expect the same again this weekend.

Yeah I know, I'd like to see Cordy play on him.

[Cyberdoggie]

I don't see this coach as someone who will make mass changes, he seems quite stubborn and in intent on giving certain personnel a go and throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Obviously Howard is out.

I would like to see Panos come in and give some support to Jones but i don't think that will happen. We need more run, so i think DJ and/or Sherman will come in, Griffen if fit.

Not sure who he would drop unless there was an injury.

I guess Grant and Dickson would be likely maybe even addison. Can't see the coach dumping any of them, he has said publicly he has faith in Addison. Grant getting 1 quarter and getting dumped probably not what the coach wants to do. Dickson getting dumped after 1 game, also not ideal.

Will be interesting what moves they make.

[Mantis]

Official (7 news):

In - Griffen, DJ

Out - Howard (inj.), Wallis

[Remi Moses]

Official (7 news):

In - Griffen, DJ

Out - Howard (inj.), Wallis

Gee would have picked Cordy:eek:
In Cordy Out Roughy

[Mantis]

Full team:

Western Bulldogs

* B: Robert Murphy, Brian Lake, Dylan Addison
* HB: Ryan Hargrave, Lukas Markovic, Easton Wood
* C: Daniel Cross, Matthew Boyd, Ryan Griffen
* HF: Luke Dahlhaus, Liam Jones, Adam Cooney
* F: Daniel Giansiracusa, William Minson, Shaun Higgins
* Foll: Jordan Roughead, Thomas Liberatore, Liam Picken
* I/C: Jarrad Grant, Nathan Djerrkura, Clay Smith, Tory Dickson
* Emg: Ayce Cordy, Patrick Veszpremi, Mitchell Wallis

* In: Ryan Griffen, Nathan Djerrkura
* Out: Christian Howard, Mitchell Wallis

[LongWait]

Official (7 news):

In - Griffen, DJ

Out - Howard (inj.), Wallis

Good "ins".

I know some want Cordy in for Roughead but Roughy was up against the best ruck combo (or close to) in the comp. We need to give him a few opportunities given his quite good NAB Cup form.

Griffen and DJ will certainly add some run and carry and some spread from the stoppages, both of which were lacking on the weekend.

[LostDoggy]

Full team:

Western Bulldogs

* B: Robert Murphy, Brian Lake, Dylan Addison
* HB: Ryan Hargrave, Lukas Markovic, Easton Wood
* C: Daniel Cross, Matthew Boyd, Ryan Griffen
* HF: Luke Dahlhaus, Liam Jones, Adam Cooney
* F: Daniel Giansiracusa, William Minson, Shaun Higgins
* Foll: Jordan Roughead, Thomas Liberatore, Liam Picken
* I/C: Jarrad Grant, Nathan Djerrkura, Clay Smith, Tory Dickson
* Emg: Ayce Cordy, Patrick Veszpremi, Mitchell Wallis

* In: Ryan Griffen, Nathan Djerrkura
* Out: Christian Howard, Mitchell Wallis

From that side I would,nt be surprised if Veszpremi replaces Grant and is the Sub , Pat gives us better flexibility forward and back

.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Gee would have picked Cordy:eek:
In Cordy Out Roughy

I would have selected Cordy but not at the expense of Roughead. I would have tried Cordy at Chf and played Jones closer to goal where he is more likely to kick goals. Jones kicking lacks penetration further out.Dickson, Grant and Addison are probably all lucky to survive. Both Griffen and DJ are good inclusions.

[LostDoggy]

Well I was wrong and a lot of others were right! DJ in, good luck fella.

[jeemak]

I would like to see Dickson come out this weekend with a defensive mindset. To not have a single tackle while playing high and low forward in your first game is a touch disappointing.

I'm disappointed Wallis was given the flick, though I'm looking forward to seeing DJ's improvement over the preseason.

I'm really surprised people wanted Grant out. I thought playing him as a sub was a terrible start for McCartney, and I hope he doesn't make such a silly mistake again leaving a forward line bereft of leading options short. I'm glad McCartney had the sense not to drop him.

It's great to have Griffen back. We are so much more competitive with him in the side.

[G-Mo77]

Don't agree with Wallis getting dumped again. 7 games into his career and he's still treated like he's been out there for 100+ Let the kid learn the game!!!!

DJ would have to be sub looking at that bench, surely they won't make the same mistake 2 weeks in a row. Hopefully Grant starts on the ground.

[Cyberdoggie]

Don't agree with Wallis getting dumped again. 7 games into his career and he's still treated like he's been out there for 100+ Let the kid learn the game!!!!

DJ would have to be sub looking at that bench, surely they won't make the same mistake 2 weeks in a row. Hopefully Grant starts on the ground.

True he does seem to be the whipping boy but perhaps he shouldn't really be getting as many games as he has. I mean he hasn't really dominated at Williamstown before.

Mitch needs confidence. I want to see him get a steady run at Willy and learn to not worry about expectations. Learn to get the pill 30 times a game get the disposal efficiency up.

At the moment there isn't really a spot for him, as we need more run. I don't think DJ is the answer but perhaps he might surprise us.

[always right]

Don't agree with Wallis getting dumped again. 7 games into his career and he's still treated like he's been out there for 100+ Let the kid learn the game!!!!

DJ would have to be sub looking at that bench, surely they won't make the same mistake 2 weeks in a row. Hopefully Grant starts on the ground.

Wallis showed some improved signs last week but I struggle to see
who else should have made way for Griffen? Grant needs the opportunity to play a full match and Addison plays the lock down defensive role.

[mjp]

Don't agree with Wallis getting dumped again. 7 games into his career and he's still treated like he's been out there for 100+ Let the kid learn the game!!!!


I am disappointed with this as well. Has he EVER played 2 consecutive games? I was surprised as his selection in the R1 team, but once he was picked I would have thought two games at least??? He didn't cost us the game last week.

There is a famous story about Fraser Brown where David Parkin asked him what the problem was - he dominated in the 2's but was not the same player at league level. Brown replied that it was 'his (Parkin's) fault. Well, you and that other idiot who was here last year (Walls)'. When asked why, Brown replied that he had played 6 games and been dropped after every single one of them.

[G-Mo77]

Wallis showed some improved signs last week but I struggle to see
who else should have made way for Griffen? Grant needs the opportunity to play a full match and Addison plays the lock down defensive role.

Howard made way for Griffen, that is all that was needed. If I was to make any other changes it would have been Cordy for Roughead but I'm happy to leave it that way. DJ can and should have waited it out at Willy.


I am disappointed with this as well. Has he EVER played 2 consecutive games? I was surprised as his selection in the R1 team, but once he was picked I would have thought two games at least??? He didn't cost us the game last week.

There is a famous story about Fraser Brown where David Parkin asked him what the problem was - he dominated in the 2's but was not the same player at league level. Brown replied that it was 'his (Parkin's) fault. Well, you and that other idiot who was here last year (Walls)'. When asked why, Brown replied that he had played 6 games and been dropped after every single one of them.

He put together 2 last year, don't bother about counting his first as he only played one quarter of football and was thrown to the wolves. I'm really concerned with how we are handling Wallis. New coach I thought things would have improved.

[bornadog]

DJ can and should have waited it out at Willy.

Old Geelong Boy who was coached in the midfield by guess who.

[Mantis]

Old Geelong Boy who was coached in the midfield by guess who.

You really think this would play part?... Really :confused::confused:

[AndrewP6]

You really think this would play part?... Really :confused::confused:

Wouldn't surprise me if it did. He did bring Shannon Grant with him, and wouldn't be the first to look favourably upon someone he'd had previous involvement with.

[ledge]

Wouldn't surprise me if it did. He did bring Shannon Grant with him, and wouldn't be the first to look favourably upon someone he'd had previous involvement with.

And who was at Geelong whe DJ got the flick, the same with Moles could work against both of them.

[Rocco Jones]

Old Geelong Boy who was coached in the midfield by guess who.

You're speaking as if McCartney had a hand in recruiting DJ, like Grant with Campbell and Dickson where in fact, BMac was part of the team that traded him (and would have delisted him). If anything you would think it would be a bad thing for DJ to have a coach from a club that sent him packing.

[ledge]

I wonder what these players thought when Macca got the gig, looking at it so far DJ is getting another go but Moles has been completely left out.

[GVGjr]

I wonder what these players thought when Macca got the gig, looking at it so far DJ is getting another go but Moles has been completely left out.

It's not like injuries have played a part in that either.

[AndrewP6]

It's not like injuries have played a part in that either.

Hasn't Moles been injured?

[chef]

Hasn't Moles been injured?

I think GVG was being sarcastic;)

[GVGjr]

Hasn't Moles been injured?

I think you are right.

[always right]

This thread has become a bit like a Caroline Wilson article. All that's missing is the grassy knoll.

[AndrewP6]

I think GVG was being sarcastic;)

Damn it I missed it! :o

[Sockeye Salmon]

Moles was dumped by Thompson.

One of the Geelong assistants at the time rang Dalrymple and told he to have a look at Moles because he thought Moles could play.

We just don't know which assistant helped save Moles' career.

[Eastdog]

Moles was dumped by Thompson.

One of the Geelong assistants at the time rang Dalrymple and told he to have a look at Moles because he thought Moles could play.

We just don't know which assistant helped save Moles' career.

What do you think Moles role will be at our club seeing that he hasn't played that much footy for us.

[Hotdog60]

What do you think Moles role will be at our club seeing that he hasn't played that much footy for us.

If Moles could get more of the ball he could be a handy outside mid, shows glimpses of quality without quantity.

[Eastdog]

If Moles could get more of the ball he could be a handy outside mid, shows glimpses of quality without quantity.

How about Mulligan do you think he has a future or could he be delisted at season's end.

[azabob]

How about Mulligan do you think he has a future or could he be delisted at season's end.

Personally I think he will be delisted, he was lucky to make it off the rookie list.

What do you think?

[bornadog]

Personally I think he will be delisted, he was lucky to make it off the rookie list.

What do you think?

Don't know why we kept him

[always right]

Don't know why we kept him

Contracted

[Eastdog]

Personally I think he will be delisted, he was lucky to make it off the rookie list.

What do you think?

Yeah im not sure what value he is going to bring. I think though in this year's draft we are going to get a good deal. With recycled players it is all about luck whether they become good or not. Hopefully Austin who we picked up from Carlton bring something to the team.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Don't know why we elevated him

Edited for accuracy

[Sockeye Salmon]

If Moles could get more of the ball he could be a handy outside mid, shows glimpses of quality without quantity.

I think a bit more highly of him than most on here, but we have activated both concession picks which means we will have to turn over at least 6 players this year so unless he gets fit and starts to perform he will be in trouble.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I think a bit more highly of him than most on here, but we have activated both concession picks which means we will have to turn over at least 6 players this year so unless he gets fit and starts to perform he will be in trouble.

I think he may be OK based on his age and also the fact that he is not on much cash.

At the end of this year I think we will see the end of Cross, Gilbee, Hooper & Addison. Also with Murphy, Cooney & Hargrave there bodies may well about had enough by years end.

[bornadog]

I think he may be OK based on his age and also the fact that he is not on much cash.

At the end of this year I think we will see the end of Cross, Gilbee, Hooper & Addison. Also with Murphy, Cooney & Hargrave there bodies may well about had enough by years end.

There is no way we will see the end of Cross. Book mark this.!!

[LostDoggy]

There is no way we will see the end of Cross. Book mark this.!!

Why not? We wont need another inside mid in the team next year while we have Boyd, Libba and one of the other young up and comers. More so because he isn't fast and his disposal is not great and I reckon there will a knock on the door next year.

He would struggle to get a senior game in a top four side and our history shows we hang on to the "old favourites" for too long.

[bornadog]

Why not? We wont need another inside mid in the team next year while we have Boyd, Libba and one of the other young up and comers. More so because he isn't fast and his disposal is not great and I reckon there will a knock on the door next year.

He would struggle to get a senior game in a top four side and our history shows we hang on to the "old favourites" for too long.

Because he still racks up 30 disposals per game and is under 30 years old and brings alot of value to the side.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

There is no way we will see the end of Cross. Book mark this.!!

In a way I hope your right, but that really depends on the guys like Wallis, DJ, Sherman & Moles. If they come on and but pressure on him anything could be possible. If they don't apply themselves and he is still on the list they don't deserve a game.

That being said if Cross left we would have a very inexperienced midfield group with most under 50 games.

[LostDoggy]

And gets out run by big slow ruckmen and KPP's. It happened again last week against West Coast ..... and remember the final against Collingwood and Leigh Brown out sprinting him!

I dont care about how many possessions he gets .... it is what he does with them that is important .... and that is the difference between the Bulldogs and the other contenders in recent years.

[The Coon Dog]

I think he may be OK based on his age and also the fact that he is not on much cash.

At the end of this year I think we will see the end of Cross, Gilbee, Hooper & Addison. Also with Murphy, Cooney & Hargrave there bodies may well about had enough by years end.

Didn't he sign a 2 year extension in the off season?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Didn't he sign a 2 year extension in the off season?

I do not know but if he did, good luck to him, he is a smart businessman. The young kids would need to improve fair bit to push Cross out of the side on current form.

[AndrewP6]

Didn't he sign a 2 year extension in the off season?

Yep, last September I believe, along with Boyd.

[Mantis]

Yep, last September I believe, along with Boyd.

Cross & Gia signed for 2 years... after we had said that we would be pushing for 1 year deals.

Boyd signed for 3 years... after we had said that we would be pushing for a 2 year deal.

[G-Mo77]

And gets out run by big slow ruckmen and KPP's. It happened again last week against West Coast ..... and remember the final against Collingwood and Leigh Brown out sprinting him!

I dont care about how many possessions he gets .... it is what he does with them that is important .... and that is the difference between the Bulldogs and the other contenders in recent years.

Anyone can get run down when they are slowing down to kick the ball. Cross is not good by foot and is also slow by foot with his delivery like Boyd is. You'll see them run down again a few times before the end of their careers.

I still think Cross is a valuable player in this team though but I do get were you are coming from.

[soupman]

I think he may be OK based on his age and also the fact that he is not on much cash.

At the end of this year I think we will see the end of Cross, Gilbee, Hooper & Addison. Also with Murphy, Cooney & Hargrave there bodies may well about had enough by years end.

Can't agree on Cross, Addison, Murphy, Cooney or Hargrave.

Cross is contracted for 2013.
Addison hasn't done a thing wrong this season and looks like he'll spend most of the year in our best 22 under BMac.
Murphy was AA last year, is an established member of our best 22 and has just been elevated to the leadership group again.
Cooney is not yet 30, at his best is elite and I can't imagine is the type to want to rush into retirement.
Hargrave is comfortably in our best 22.

I do concede your point regarding their bodies, but aside from a Scott West style injury I can't see the club not giving them another year to try and get their body right.

I see the ones in the gun as:
Gilbee, has had poor form and injury issues.
Hooper, is not AFL quality at all.
Mulligan, see Hooper.
Veszpremi, needs to start performing at AFL level. Been in the system long enough.
Tutt, has had injury early but if he fails to play atleast semiregularly be seasons end could find himself unemployed.
Skinner, talented but needs to start showing he can do it at AFL level.
DJ, see Veszpremi.
Hill, see Skinner.
Moles, see Veszpremi.
Panos, see Skinner.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Can't agree on Cross, Addison, Murphy, Cooney or Hargrave.

Cross is contracted for 2013.
Addison hasn't done a thing wrong this season and looks like he'll spend most of the year in our best 22 under BMac.
Murphy was AA last year, is an established member of our best 22 and has just been elevated to the leadership group again.
Cooney is not yet 30, at his best is elite and I can't imagine is the type to want to rush into retirement.
Hargrave is comfortably in our best 22.

I do concede your point regarding their bodies, but aside from a Scott West style injury I can't see the club not giving them another year to try and get their body right.

I see the ones in the gun as:
Gilbee, has had poor form and injury issues.
Hooper, is not AFL quality at all.
Mulligan, see Hooper.
Veszpremi, needs to start performing at AFL level. Been in the system long enough.
Tutt, has had injury early but if he fails to play atleast semiregularly be seasons end could find himself unemployed.
Skinner, talented but needs to start showing he can do it at AFL level.
DJ, see Veszpremi.
Hill, see Skinner.
Moles, see Veszpremi.
Panos, see Skinner.

Gilbee, Mulligan and Hooper are almost certainly gone.

Hargrave has indicated he may retire, one more injury would probably make his decision easier but he is still only 31 not 34.



DJ is contracted for another year.

Cross, Murphy and Cooney will play on in 2013 unless Cooney's knee doesn't allow him to.

Tutt will certainly be retained.



That leaves Addison, Skinner, Veszpremi, Hill, Moles and Panos. Notwithstanding players being traded out, at least two or three of these guys will probably go.

[Mofra]

That leaves Addison, Skinner, Veszpremi, Hill, Moles and Panos. Notwithstanding players being traded out, at least two or three of these guys will probably go.
Addison is getting senior gametime which adds safety.
Skinner, Hill & Panos are young so in the "developing" bracket although is Fletcher imporves we may drop one of them to free up the list.
Vez & Moles would definately be make or break for mine - senior guys who have spent plenty of time in the system.

Wasn't Shaggy part of a boxing gym consortium with Hahn & Hall? His life after footy is already sorted if that's the case, may influence his decision.

[dogman]

I thought Fletcher already is on the main list. We picked him up in the pre season draft not on the rookie one.

[AndrewP6]

Gilbee, Mulligan and Hooper are almost certainly gone.

Hargrave has indicated he may retire, one more injury would probably make his decision easier but he is still only 31 not 34.
.

He's not 31 until July

[Topdog]

so he ends the season as a 31 year old.