Starting over

[Ghost Dog]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/starting-over-20120421-1xe4r.html

Matthew Lloyd
April 22, 2012

The longer you go without a win, the more the doubts start to mount. More important than any game style is the team's energy and the will to compete. Both clubs have served up below-par efforts over the first three rounds.

Neeld and McCartney served long apprenticeships under successful coaches Mick Malthouse and Mark Thompson.

They have both brought game styles that are in the mould of their mentors and I think that they are making a big mistake by doing so.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/starting-over-20120421-1xe4r.html#ixzz1sinfEugT


McCartney is a no-frills coach who has stripped the Dogs' game plan right back to instil a harder edge in his players based around winning the contested footy and demanding that each individual player just plays their role.

The Dogs look to be precise by hand and foot backward of centre, but go long to the top of the square once in the front half.

Unfortunately for McCartney, there is no Cameron Mooney, Paul Chapman or Stevie Johnson at his disposal and as a result the Dogs score a goal from just 17 per cent of their forward entries, which is the worst in the competition. It is hard to comprehend that they are worse than Greater Western Sydney in that area of the ground.

The skill level of the Dogs has been poor for a number of years now and in recent times the recruitment of Clay Smith, Mitch Wallis and Tom Liberatore has added more grunt but not the polish or leg speed that the Dogs desperately require. Robert Murphy spent last Saturday night manning Stephen Milne in the back pocket, which Saints coach Scott Watters would have loved considering Murphy is the only elite ball-user in the Dogs defence. The Dogs need to become less predictable going forward and Murphy needs to be used through the middle of the ground or forward to improve their efficiency.

Liam Jones and Clay Smith lead the Dogs' goalkicking with four goals apiece after three rounds which is a poor return, Sam Fisher and Brendon Goddard of the Saints had a field day last week with the high balls coming in. That's unforgivable against the Saints as playing through their men and the likes of Shaun Higgins and Daniel Giansiracusa would have been a more viable option.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/starting-over-20120421-1xe4r.html#ixzz1sinXHcSB

[MrMahatma]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/starting-over-20120421-1xe4r.html

Matthew Lloyd
April 22, 2012

The longer you go without a win, the more the doubts start to mount. More important than any game style is the team's energy and the will to compete. Both clubs have served up below-par efforts over the first three rounds.

Neeld and McCartney served long apprenticeships under successful coaches Mick Malthouse and Mark Thompson.

They have both brought game styles that are in the mould of their mentors and I think that they are making a big mistake by doing so.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/starting-over-20120421-1xe4r.html#ixzz1sinfEugT


McCartney is a no-frills coach who has stripped the Dogs' game plan right back to instil a harder edge in his players based around winning the contested footy and demanding that each individual player just plays their role.

The Dogs look to be precise by hand and foot backward of centre, but go long to the top of the square once in the front half.

Unfortunately for McCartney, there is no Cameron Mooney, Paul Chapman or Stevie Johnson at his disposal and as a result the Dogs score a goal from just 17 per cent of their forward entries, which is the worst in the competition. It is hard to comprehend that they are worse than Greater Western Sydney in that area of the ground.

The skill level of the Dogs has been poor for a number of years now and in recent times the recruitment of Clay Smith, Mitch Wallis and Tom Liberatore has added more grunt but not the polish or leg speed that the Dogs desperately require. Robert Murphy spent last Saturday night manning Stephen Milne in the back pocket, which Saints coach Scott Watters would have loved considering Murphy is the only elite ball-user in the Dogs defence. The Dogs need to become less predictable going forward and Murphy needs to be used through the middle of the ground or forward to improve their efficiency.

Liam Jones and Clay Smith lead the Dogs' goalkicking with four goals apiece after three rounds which is a poor return, Sam Fisher and Brendon Goddard of the Saints had a field day last week with the high balls coming in. That's unforgivable against the Saints as playing through their men and the likes of Shaun Higgins and Daniel Giansiracusa would have been a more viable option.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/starting-over-20120421-1xe4r.html#ixzz1sinXHcSB
What's he saying? Change the game plan to suit your cattle, where as we're trying to change the cattle to suit the game plan?

[AndrewP6]

What's he saying? Change the game plan to suit your cattle, where as we're trying to change the cattle to suit the game plan?

That's how I read it. IMO hard to argue with most of it.

[Rocco Jones]

What's he saying? Change the game plan to suit your cattle, where as we're trying to change the cattle to suit the game plan?

I agree with what he is (trying to) say, perhaps not very well worded. I think he is mainly questioning how we deliver the ball forward. The 'game plan' comment is a bit of a bundle job with Melbourne. As poorly as we are going at least some elements of our game plan are positive whereas Melbourne just look terrible and completely confused.

[Maddog37]

I think he has unrealistic views about how long it takes for a new coach to impart their own mark on a team. Especially a rookie coach.

[ledge]

How bad were Geelong the year before they became good under Thompson? WC under Worsfold last year and they had both coached a few years.
Ratten at Carlton still yet to be proved after many years, your giving some coaches years to come good but our coach gets only 3 games?

[comrade]

I wouldn't bother creating a game plan around our cattle. It would take a coaching panel comprising Leigh Matthews, John Kennedy and Norm Smith to craft a winning game plan with a list that is too slow, panics under the slightest pressure and can't kick.

Our cattle are heading to the abattoir. Better to instill a game plan early, flush out the players who aren't suited and get guys in who are. He needs 3 years, minimum. If we're going nowhere, time to reassess.

He just needs to draft some bloody elite kickers.

[The Coon Dog]

He just needs to draft some bloody elite kickers.

Which makes the decision to draft Clay Smith all the more puzzling.

[ledge]

Which makes the decision to draft Clay Smith all the more puzzling.

Not if the coach has only just come on board.
He will draft players he thinks will suit his game plan and build from there.

[Desipura]

I wouldn't bother creating a game plan around our cattle. It would take a coaching panel comprising Leigh Matthews, John Kennedy and Norm Smith to craft a winning game plan with a list that is too slow, panics under the slightest pressure and can't kick.

Our cattle are heading to the abattoir. Better to instill a game plan early, flush out the players who aren't suited and get guys in who are. He needs 3 years, minimum. If we're going nowhere, time to reassess.

He just needs to draft some bloody elite kickers.
Your post is 100 per cent spot on! We need to get this draft right otherwise the pain will be longer.

[The Coon Dog]

Your post is 100 per cent spot on! We need to get this draft right otherwise the pain will be longer.

Assuming we have 3 picks inside the top 25 (lets assume we don't trade an early pick or use one on Lachie Hunter), what would our requirements be in terms of type of players (perhaps as a guide use a current AFL player)?

[Hotdog60]

Assuming we have 3 picks inside the top 25 (lets assume we don't trade an early pick or use one on Lachie Hunter), what would our requirements be in terms of type of players (perhaps as a guide use a current AFL player)?

A Cooney without a bung knee.:D

[Maddog37]

A Goddard, an Enright and a Pendlebery (spelling?)

[Dancin' Douggy]

I wouldn't bother creating a game plan around our cattle. It would take a coaching panel comprising Leigh Matthews, John Kennedy and Norm Smith to craft a winning game plan with a list that is too slow, panics under the slightest pressure and can't kick.

Our cattle are heading to the abattoir. Better to instill a game plan early, flush out the players who aren't suited and get guys in who are. He needs 3 years, minimum. If we're going nowhere, time to reassess.

He just needs to draft some bloody elite kickers.

Our cattle are stewing steak

[Greystache]

2 quick outside midfielders with elite skills and perhaps a key defender.

[Ghost Dog]

Our cattle are stewing steak

Logic, reason, argument, debate, qualified opinion. None contained in the above.

[AndrewP6]

A Goddard, an Enright and a Pendlebery (spelling?)

Pendlebury ;)

[LostDoggy]

Fyfe, pendlebury and another bob murphy....

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Generally those top five or so mids have the ability to play 'inside' and 'outside' ala Griffen/Cooney.

So:

- A Dustin Martin
- A Griffen
- Best available with the third pick. Shouldn't pick the best KPD if there's a better player available.

Sounds easy in theory :D

[The Coon Dog]

Generally those top five or so mids have the ability to play 'inside' and 'outside' ala Griffen/Cooney.

So:

- A Dustin Martin
- A Griffen
- Best available with the third pick. Shouldn't pick the best KPD if there's a better player available.

Sounds easy in theory :D

That was my thinking too.

[Desipura]

Assuming we have 3 picks inside the top 25 (lets assume we don't trade an early pick or use one on Lachie Hunter), what would our requirements be in terms of type of players (perhaps as a guide use a current AFL player)?
A Pendlebury type a Luke Hodge type and a Ben Reid type.

[BulldogBelle]

Assuming we have 3 picks inside the top 25 (lets assume we don't trade an early pick or use one on Lachie Hunter), what would our requirements be in terms of type of players (perhaps as a guide use a current AFL player)?



Simply the 3 best available picks at the time

If the 3 picks fail to address our current/future perceived required 100% then we can always augment our playing stocks with trades, rookies, state league players and later national draft picks

Lets find simply the best available players and bring them to our club

I'd doubt that the 3 best available picks would be slow running, hard at in inside midfielders with 'reasonable' kicking skills (given Smith, Libba and Wallis fit this mould and will all be on our list hopefully for the next > 10 years - not taking into account the disparity between the 3 players 'kicking' skills)

[chef]

I would like a Stephen Hill type, a Fyfe type and a Sam Reid type for me.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Simply the 3 best available picks at the time

If the 3 picks fail to address our current/future perceived required 100% then we can always augment our playing stocks with trades, rookies, state league players and later national draft picks

Lets find simply the best available players and bring them to our club

I'd doubt that the 3 best available picks would be slow running, hard at in inside midfielders with 'reasonable' kicking skills (given Smith, Libba and Wallis fit this mould and will all be on our list hopefully for the next > 10 years - not taking into account the disparity between the 3 players 'kicking' skills)

This is exactly what got us in this predicament in the first place.

You can't re-balance your list with trades, rookies and VFL players.

Who gets traded? Battlers usually, if you want to trade for a decent player he will cost you the earth and you'll have to pay him a fortune.

Rookies and state leaguers are what they are because they have flaws. Occasionally you hit the jackpot but you draft 6 rookies a year and 1 makes it every 2nd year (if you're lucky) - and you have no say in which ones do and don't!

[DragzLS1]

Ablett senior
Ablett jnr
Abletts cousin

[Dazza]

3 Goddards would help.

One for each area of the ground.

[FrediKanoute]

I stopped reading after this paragraph:

The skill level of the Dogs has been poor for a number of years now and in recent times the recruitment of Clay Smith, Mitch Wallis and Tom Liberatore has added more grunt but not the polish or leg speed that the Dogs desperately require. Robert Murphy spent last Saturday night manning Stephen Milne in the back pocket, which Saints coach Scott Watters would have loved considering Murphy is the only elite ball-user in the Dogs defence. The Dogs need to become less predictable going forward and Murphy needs to be used through the middle of the ground or forward to improve their efficiency".

The skill level at the dogs in 2010 was still regarded as high and last year everyone expected the Dogs to go on and win the flag.

As for Murphy forward - its docuemtned that if we wanted to fninsh Murphy's career that's what we should do.

[Pedro Sanchez]

Ablett senior
Ablett jnr
Abletts cousin

Agreed, although Judd's little brother, 3rd cousin and infant son should not be glossed over lightly either...

[Sockeye Salmon]

Ablett senior
Ablett jnr
Abletts cousin

You mean Luke, the one that was at Sydney? Why would you want him?

[chef]

You mean Luke, the one that was at Sydney? Why would you want him?

Or the Tuck brothers:eek: