Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

[BulldogBelle]

This is the discussion thread for our Friday night game against Collingwood at ES.

My predictions are:

The Dogs by 2 points
BOG : Robert Murphy
Matthew Boyd to kick the first goal

[SlimPickens]

Pies 17 pts
BOG-Cooney
First goal- Lukey D

[DragzLS1]

Pies by 32 points
BOG - Boydy
First Goal - DJ

[bornadog]

Draw

BOG: Murphy

First Goal: Dahl

[G-Mo77]

Pies by 68 Points.

BOG for us: Picken

First Goal for us: Jones

[LostDoggy]

I sound like a broken record, but the way that our members have been asked to relocate for the needs of Collingwood members is terrible. They shouldn't be treated like royalty, more like scum, and I hope we treat them like scum on the field tomorrow night!
Unusually but cautiously optomistic for the match!

Dogs by 5 after a Dahlhaus goal with seconds left.
Bog - Griff
First goal - Picken

[Greystache]

Collingwood by 28
BOG- Dahlhaus
First goal- Dahlhaus

[LostDoggy]

Colingwood by 34
BOG - Griff
First Goal - Dahlhaus

[Rance Fan]

Collingwood by 102
BOG - Swan
First Goal - Cloke

For Dogs
best - Picken
first goal - Dahlhaus


Hope Im very wrong!

[AndrewP6]

Pies by 100+ :eek:
BOG (for us) Murphy
First goal (for us) Griff

[Go_Dogs]

Collingwood by 19
BOG Griffen
First goal Jones

[LostDoggy]

No matter what, I can never tip another side.....so,

Dogs by 3 points
BOG = Griffen
First goal = Jones

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Filth by 50+
First dogs goal: Dahlhaus
BOG for dogs: Murphy

[Eastdog]

Im the same Magic Griffen. I can never tip against the Dogs.

Dogs by 4 points
BOG (for us): Ryan Griffen
First Goal (for us): Liam Jones

[1eyedog]

No matter what, I can never tip another side.....so,

Dogs by 3 points
BOG = Griffen
First goal = Jones

Same

Dogs by 11 points

Cooney will have to really offer something tonight

Higgins and Wood to have blinders

Gia first goal

[Flamethrower]

Early in the week I was predicting a massacre - I tipped a 103 point win for the Carringbush - but as the week has worn on I am feeling cautiously optomistic.....

Doggies by 13 points

BOG: Liam Jones

1st goal: Justin Sherman

[Daughter of the West]

Filth by 10 goals
Best for us: Dollhouse
First goal for us: Big Will

[westdog54]

Collingwood by 36.

Sherman First goal.

Griffen our BOG, Pendles theirs.

[The Pie Man]

Carringbush by 40 points...wouldn't be shocked to see it nudge past 10 goals at one point

Jones our first goal.

Griffen our best.

[G-Mo77]

Almost had kittens. Just about to leave and couldn't find my card. 1 hour later I finally find it under the keyboard I'm typing on. :o

[Doggy]

Collingwood by 90 points

BOG us Liberatore

Goal - Gia

[LostDoggy]

DOGS by 9

BOG - Sidebottom

First Goal - DJ

.

[DOG GOD]

Filth by a minimum of 56 pts.

Swan to do his usual job, and Cloke to kick 6

Bog for us- griff

[craigsahibee]

Just had a chat with Harvey Stevens at Mooroolbark Station while waiting for the train.

Both Harvey and his wife are heading to the game tonight as their grandson was named as an emergency. (I wasn't aware of that).

Harvey didn't think Talia is quite ready yet. I tend to agree.

[MrMahatma]

Not taking our chances.

Feels like a game we'll be there abouts for a while then get blown away.

[chef]

Very happy with our intent ATM

[Bulldog Revolution]

Really good start

good intensity around the footy, been impressed with our back line contesting, reading the play and overhead - Hargrave, Lake, Wood, Murphy all look sharp, nice grab by Austin,

Wood is repaying the faith by the coaching in Q1

[Go_Dogs]

Besides not capitalising as much as we would've liked, that was a pretty good quarter.

[Eastdog]

Very good first quarter. Griff has been great, Dalhaus has been in there a lot and we are winning the ball quite well. Hopefully we can keep it up and give the Pies a shock.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure what Sherman has done to himself , looks like an ankle injury , might have been kicked in the ankle

The pressure on their switches of play was great , they were able to find space several times but the pressure has slowed down their decision making and given us the time to close down any space

Austin holding his own so far , Cloke trying to get away from Lake , Picken put Swan in a garage bag

.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Wow.
That's certainly the best quarter of football we've put together this year.
Be interesting to see how long we can sustain it for.
Still sloppy going forward, but our pressure levels have been insane all over the ground.
Excellent start by our defenders, Hargrave, Wood and Murph especially have provided great run in addition to defenseive support for Lake.
Picken has padlocked himself to Dane Swan and held him to just 3 handballs.
Griff has been vital, Dahlhaus' run has been great as well. Minson and Rough are owning Wood (no great acheivement) and Higgins has been a contributor not only with his ball use and running but his pressure.
If only we could hit a forward lace out once in a while.
Well Done lads. I had us pegged for a pantsing, but we've come out like a different side to the one that was so pedestrian against GWS last weekend.

[westdog54]

Missed a few I would have liked to nail but loving the intensit. Decision making has been ok

[MrMahatma]

Austin a bit of a liability

[Eastdog]

I hope that was not the end of our great footy in the 1st quarter.

[MrMahatma]

Lake back to his cheeky best

[Go_Dogs]

What a goal by Wood - puts the afterburners on. Beautiful.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Great goal Wood

[Eastdog]

Great Goal Wood.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Great play and goal from Wood!

[Eastdog]

Great intensity from the boys so far. Very impressed tonight. Defensively we have looked really good.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Veszpremi soft. Backing back with flight...then stopped and Reid marks.

[MrMahatma]

A few errors, young team but we're playing good footy.

[Bulldog4life]

Boydy's handballs in the backline are precarious.

[Go_Dogs]

I thought Cross just about had a mark there, and Austin knocked it behind for Swan. Costly that one, still, another good effort overall in the 2nd - and time for another goal to keep a buffer.

[Eastdog]

Best half of footy in a while for Lake.

[Eastdog]

That hurts. Pies in the lead.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Disappointing fade out in the second half of that quarter to give up the lead.
I am not pleased with Veszpremi's efforts in particular, when it's got hot near him he's melted and his first reaction is not the team, it's just get rid of it.

[Stefcep]

1. Decision making, decision makinf, decision making.
2. Jones is not, will not ever be a KPF. Has not had a single effective possession. Doesn't help that..
3. We have no system going into the 50 other than kick it long, kick it high.

[ledge]

Jones isnt taking marks and is too slow with his hands, its like he doesnt know what to do with it if he doesnt mark it.

[Dog54]

Can we teach Vez to handball at halftime ?

[whythelongface]

1. Decision making, decision makinf, decision making.
2. Jones is not, will not ever be a KPF. Has not had a single effective possession. Doesn't help that..
3. We have no system going into the 50 other than kick it long, kick it high.

What about his kick to griff that lead to a goal.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. Decision making, decision makinf, decision making.
2. Jones is not, will not ever be a KPF. Has not had a single effective possession. Doesn't help that..
3. We have no system going into the 50 other than kick it long, kick it high.

Isn't point 2 a bit over the top considering the valid 3rd point you make..
You can't on the one hand blame Jones for not having an effective possession but then lament the supply inside 50?

Cloke has only marginally had more influence than Jones. Based on that do you think Cloke might not also ever hold down a KPF too?

[Stefcep]

The intent to handball at all costs resembles the Geelong game plan of a few years ago, of course nowhere near as well executed due to fumbling poor decision making when we have the ball, and no plan of what to do next. i can see what we're trying to do but not convinced we have the cattle.

[whythelongface]

Overall very happy with our first half. Good intensity and commitment. Didn't think we would be that close at half time.

[whythelongface]

The intent to handball at all costs resembles the Geelong game plan of a few years ago, of course nowhere near as well executed due to fumbling poor decision making when we have the ball, and no plan of what to do next. i can see what we're trying to do but not convinced we have the cattle.

Anything good that you have seen tonight?

[chef]

Veszpremi soft. Backing back with flight...then stopped and Reid marks.

He just doesn't go hard enough whether it's chasing someone, at the ball or into a pack. Plus he can't handball, not good enough for an AFL player.

[Eastdog]

One disappointing thing is we have only 5 goals so far for playing an excellent first half. Clearly our forward line is our weak area.

[LostDoggy]

Our intensity just dropped off and they made the most of any chances , just have keep the pressure up and in their face , Sherman must have just got a stinger on the ankle

The biggest danger is the Pies under pressure kick it high , this makes for a static contest and their midfielders push hard forward to capitalise on any quick handball or tap to advantage , Cloke and Dawes both tap to advantage very well , Austin may get caught by this a few times unless he forces a strong side contact or get more front on , Lake doing well to peel off and rebound looking good , Wood has actually backed himself with some run and carry good to see as well

Under pressure we have used handballs to make space , the Pies will adjust and start cutting them off , time to start hitting targets by foot

.

[Stefcep]

What about his kick to griff that lead to a goal.

One hurried kick. Enough from a KFP in a half of football?

He's not a KPF. He can't kick, he's decision-making is woeful when he gets the ball. Yes the delivery is poor but he's not a footballer, end of.

and re: Cloke versus Jones. Is that a joke? There are quarters off football that Cloke has played where he's done more than Jones has done in his life. Not tonight, but Bwian is playing a blinder.

[MrMahatma]

All in all, we're doing well in the midfield, well in defence, we just have no fwd line.

Better than I expected.

Roughead has been good.

[Stefcep]

Anything good that you have seen tonight?

Yeah. Effort and commitment. Lake. Dahlhaus. Roughhead.

[Stefcep]

And Picken.

[Eastdog]

And Picken.

What about Picken?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

One hurried kick. Enough from a KFP in a half of football?

He's not a KPF. He can't kick, he's decision-making is woeful when he gets the ball. Yes the delivery is poor but he's not a footballer, end of.

and re: Cloke versus Jones. Is that a joke? There are quarters off football that Cloke has played where he's done more than Jones has done in his life. Not tonight, but Bwian is playing a blinder.



Jones has had no chance tonight to show whether he can play or not.
Last year he took the 6th most contested marks in the league. He's got some potential.

I was not trying to compare Cloke v Jones, merely trying to highlight the hyperbole of your initial comment. That Jones has not had an effect tonight, ergo he must be crap. I was showing that Cloke too has not performed tonight.. that doesn't mean he's not a good player. They both have mitigating factors

[Go_Dogs]

Go you dogs!

[Stefcep]

What about Picken?

Good first half from him.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Really need to fight this one out.

Damn Easton Wood has done a hammy, subbed out for Wallis.
What bad luck, his best game for a couple of years.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Terrible by Addison, he needed to body Sinclair, not engage in a foot race he was never going to win.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

The Filth are starting to be able to find space, that was far too easy uncontested all the way from kick out to the entry up forward that enabled a one on one for Cloke.

[Stefcep]

Jones has had no chance tonight to show whether he can play or not.
Last year he took the 6th most contested marks in the league. He's got some potential.

I was not trying to compare Cloke v Jones, merely trying to highlight the hyperbole of your initial comment. That Jones has not had an effect tonight, ergo he must be crap. I was showing that Cloke too has not performed tonight.. that doesn't mean he's not a good player. They both have mitigating factors


My judgment is not based on tonight only. The guy is a headless chook.

You think he has potential, fair enough. He won't amount to anything but he'll play 150 games for us. Its what we do.

[Bulldog4life]

To beat a team such as Collingwood you can't afford inaccurate kicking. You have to make the very most of your opportunities. We haven't done that but we are still a chance.

[MrMahatma]

Hanging in there!

Come on boys!

[Go_Dogs]

Definitely take being 1 point down heading into the last. We're still right in this, we just need to keep our intensity up like we have for most of the night. Lot's of positives so far, sounds like the crowd is getting into it from the telecast too, which has been good to hear.

[whythelongface]

My judgment is not based on tonight only. The guy is a headless chook.

You think he has potential, fair enough. He won't amount to anything but he'll play 150 games for us. Its what we do.

He is only 20 and is our main go to man who every week has the best defender playing on him. Cut the guy some slack and give him a few years to at least show his wares.

[DOG GOD]

Need a good start to the last...bang on 2 or 3 quick ones....jones needs to step up here. Can't afford to miss any set shots this qtr.

[Eastdog]

We have really come out tonight. Let's hope we have a great last quarter and not fade away now because we have stuck with them. Cmon Doggies.

[LostDoggy]

Yes , it is possible to criticise a supposed lack of a forward line , just remember under Macca we only have two forwards , anyone else is rotated through the midfield , its made it hard for Jones some of those kicks to him have been horrible , if its down at his feet he can,t mark it on his chest , a few times the guys have kicked to him when he wan,nt in the right position , Jones is only 20 and still learning and there is a terrible amount of pressure on him

.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That contest that Dawes just won, soft, soft play by all those Dogs players around him.
Thank goodness O'Brien blew the ensuing shot on goal.
But that's a danger sign, we need everyone switched on.

[Eastdog]

Yes , it is possible to criticise a supposed lack of a forward line , just remember under Macca we only have two forwards , anyone else is rotated through the midfield , its made it hard for Jones some of those kicks to him have been horrible , if its down at his feet he can,t mark it on his chest , a few times the guys have kicked to him when he wan,nt in the right position , Jones is only 20 and still learning and there is a terrible amount of pressure on him

.

Thats right West-Dog about Jones.We tend to forget that Jones is only 20.

[Bulldog4life]

Murph should have passed to Djiti not the next guy!

[Bulldog4life]

I wish Sherman was greedier. Tried to do the team thing.

[KT31]

I wish Sherman was greedier. Tried to do the team thing.

Stupid thing.
The player he past off to was in a worse position than him.
One of the problems with our game.
Why wouldn't you want to go back and kick the tgoal and be a match winner ?

[Bulldog4life]

Maybe the coach wants him to be more team orientated so he tried to do the team thing.

[MrMahatma]

Fair effort. Shame Sherm didn't take that shot - things may have been different.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I fully expected us to get a 50 point pasting. I'm glad we did not get blown away, and tried very hard for the whole game.
We just do not have enough quality cattle to last a game.
We basically have a lot of low skilled triers, and only a few high skilled players.
Over a 4 quarter journey the low skills will cost you enough to make it very hard for you to consistently win games against good opponents.
We are going to see alot of these types of frustrating performances over the next couple of years I think, until we are able to turnover the list and inject enough quality across the lines.

[Ghost Dog]

Lacked polish. Too many turnovers. Good effort lads

[LostDoggy]

Fairly simple in the end , Wood off with a hamstring injury and we lose some rebound , two Murphy mistakes , two Sherman mistakes , we drop our intensity a bit and they sneak away , its like being groped by a poltergeist you know what happened but you can't blame anyone

.

[Hotdog60]

4 goals to turnovers

[Ghost Dog]

I fully expected us to get a 50 point pasting.
We just do not have enough quality cattle to last a game.
We basically have a lot of low skilled triers, and only a few high skilled players.
Over a 4 quarter journey the low skills will cost you enough to make it very hard for you to consistently win games against good opponents.
We are going to see alot of these types of frustrating performances over the next couple of years I think, until we are able to turnover the list and inject enough quality across the lines.

Come off it. They came off a nine day break and have some superstars in their team.
We played really well and turned up. A missed early shot from Picken and and two or three turnovers and we may have one that.
And besides, we are not cattle, we are DOGS. ^_^

enjoyed watching us play. Some great effort from the lads. Moving in the right direction for sure.

[Rance Fan]

Have to say it - we missed Easton Woods run when he went off!
Played well!
Great effort Bulldogs
Maybe Collingwoods longer paid off in the end?
Their key players stepped up in the end Pendlebury etc
Boyd, Griff, Dahl couldnt get us there in the last....
Encouraging but need to win em!

[Eastdog]

Despite the loss tonight I can't fault the effort from our guys. We stuck with them right to the end until they kicked away a bit. There were a lot of positives tonight. Collingwood I reckon are coming down and are not as strong as they were before.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Come off it. They came off a nine day break and have some superstars in their team.
We played really well and turned up. A missed early shot from Picken and and two or three turnovers and we may have one that.
And besides, we are not cattle, we are DOGS. ^_^

enjoyed watching us play. Some great effort from the lads. Moving in the right direction for sure.

That's precisely what I was trying to say. I wasn't unhappy with our effort (I actually edited my post before you posted your reply, highlighting that.
However I don't think you can gloss over the fact that the reason we lost tonight was due to repeated skill/decision errors, which reinforces my point. We do not have the cattle to win these sorts of games.
Dylan Addison ain't going to get any more skilfull, and it's not a knock on him. He can only be as good as he can be. He has a heart the size of the Lion, and exemplifies the type of effort you want to see from every player. Yet it cannot be denied that his skills are below AFL standard. We have lot of those types who under pressure do not have the skills required to consistently execute when it matters. And against quality teams it will show out.
We are going to be in for a sustained period of these 'good effort, but no cigar' type performances for this reason until we are able to address the dearth of quality in our side.

[LostDoggy]

Hmm.. we werent terrible but i reckon the pies arent all that flash... their backline can definitely be exposed one on one, and better forwardlines than our ramshackle one will take it to the cleaners. Pies on the slide as well... malthouse may have timed his exit perfectly.

[Ghost Dog]

Hmm.. we werent terrible but i reckon the pies arent all that flash... their backline can definitely be exposed one on one, and better forwardlines than our ramshackle one will take it to the cleaners. Pies on the slide as well... malthouse may have timed his exit perfectly.

Why do you call it ramshackle. Liam Jones is 20 years old. I prefer to think of it as ' maturing'.
Wasteful in front of goal. It cost us.

[Ghost Dog]

That's precisely what I was trying to say. I wasn't unhappy with our effort (I actually edited my post before you posted your reply, highlighting that.
However I don't think you can gloss over the fact that the reason we lost tonight was due to repeated skill/decision errors, which reinforces my point. We do not have the cattle to win these sorts of games.
Dylan Addison ain't going to get any more skilfull, and it's not a knock on him. He can only be as good as he can be. He has a heart the size of the Lion, and exemplifies the type of effort you want to see from every player. Yet it cannot be denied that his skills are below AFL standard. We have lot of those types who under pressure do not have the skills required to consistently execute when it matters. And against quality teams it will show out.
We are going to be in for a sustained period of these 'good effort, but no cigar' type performances for this reason until we are able to address the dearth of quality in our side.

Don't forget, the pies applied very good pressure. the turnovers happened late in the game. That's just footy. I thought Dylan did some good things and had a few shockers, but overall, did very well. I feel some players good acts just get totally ignored. We surprised a few tonight, so don't write the story of our season yet.

[chef]

Why do you call it ramshackle. Liam Jones is 20 years old. I prefer to think of it as ' maturing'.
Wasteful in front of goal. It cost us.

It looks thrown together and doesn't have much system ATM.

[Eastdog]

Great to see Lake having a good game. It had been awhile.

[Rance Fan]

Great to see Lake having a good game. It had been awhile.

The back half was fantastic for the most part.
Hope they can back it up next week.
Need to beat the Kangas!
We will have a bigger break and they be coming back from the west with a likely loss to WCE

[LostDoggy]

Great game for the scapegoats, Wood, Addison, Gia, Cross, Hargrave.
It was a pretty good effort all up.

Sherman, why? For someone that loves the glory,Mohave a crack mate! Kick that and it's o e point. Miss and it's one goal and the ball in our fifty. Any Paki bookmakers around?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Don't forget, the pies applied very good pressure. the turnovers happened late in the game. That's just footy. I thought Dylan did some good things and had a few shockers, but overall, did very well. I feel some players good acts just get totally ignored. We surprised a few tonight, so don't write the story of our season yet.

I admire your enthusiasm and positivity. I think over the years here, I could hardly be called a constant source of negativity. However in my opinion we have some serious shortcomings that I don't think will work themselves out over time without major changes tothe list.

I love the effort we show, but no matter how much effort we show with the list we have, we are more times than not, going to get beaten due to the dearth of quality on our list.
It reminds me of most of the 80's, where we would show all the effort in the world, but more times than not against the better teams it rarely see us win.
That's why games like the '84 last minute win against Collingwood was so great at the time, because we were a team of battlers, and we pinched one on effort alone.
I don't want us to remain like that. It's not sustainable. I want the effort + depth of skillful players that the top teams have.
I'm fully accepting of the fact that it is going to take some time to make the changes to the list to hopefully redress that imbalance on our list. Hopefully we can capitalise in the next coupld of years on what I think will be a poor ladder position by recruiting the types of players we dearly need.
I'm patient, and I'll still keep following the lads, hoping for the odd effort win ala the '84 game against the pies in the meantime.

[Eastdog]

The back half was fantastic for the most part.
Hope they can back it up next week.
Need to beat the Kangas!
We will have a bigger break and they be coming back from the west with a likely loss to WCE

The next 2 weeks a big chances for win as we come up against North Melbourne and Gold Coast.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Don't forget, the pies applied very good pressure. the turnovers happened late in the game. That's just footy. I thought Dylan did some good things and had a few shockers, but overall, did very well. I feel some players good acts just get totally ignored. We surprised a few tonight, so don't write the story of our season yet.

Actualy for most of the game I thought our pressure was fantastic, the best in has been all year. That for me was what I enjoyed the most tonight.

Our spread or lack thereof as it has been all year, at times got us in trouble.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Fairly simple in the end , Wood off with a hamstring injury and we lose some rebound , two Murphy mistakes , two Sherman mistakes , we drop our intensity a bit and they sneak away , its like being groped by a poltergeist you know what happened but you can't blame anyone
.

Love it!
Yeah it was a real shame that Wood went off, he was really showing why the club persists with him. He really has the ability to take his man and the game on. Tonight he was looking like a real influential player, and I too agree it was not coincidental we struggled after he exited the game.

[Ghost Dog]

Actualy for most of the game I thought our pressure was fantastic, the best in has been all year. That for me was what I enjoyed the most tonight.

Our spread or lack thereof as it has been all year, at times got us in trouble.

Yep and their smaller players were able to win the one on one chase into the goal square. Quick. They got some cheap ones. They had to play good footy to stay in the race for 3Q though.

[Remi Moses]

1. Decision making, decision makinf, decision making.
2. Jones is not, will not ever be a KPF. Has not had a single effective possession. Doesn't help that..
3. We have no system going into the 50 other than kick it long, kick it high.

Contradiction if ever I've heard

[angelopetraglia]

Just got back from the game. Really solid effort. Definitely not the demolition that many were tipping. Collingwood is far from the team that they were and we are not as bad as we showed last week.

In the end a few things ultimately cost us;

- some absolute shocking turnovers when it counted most that resulted in goals in the last quarter
-our inability to put on more scoreboard pressure when we were dominating the game, especially early
-they ran over the top of us in the last quarter too, the 10 day Vs 6 day break would have definitely helped them
-we lost any type of composure when going inside our own 50 in the last quarter and allowed the ball to rebound too quickly

[w3design]

Their effort and commitment was fantastic tonight. I expected to be crushed. I will take effort, intensity, bodies on the line every time. Yep we lacked skill, our forward line is makeshift, and our backs though very brave tonight just don't jell together .. A few misunderstanding about who would jump, who would spoil, were costly.

Great signs: good form at last from shaggy and lake. Wood showed heaps... Loved that goal. Griff just fantastic.

I'm proud of them tonight.

[LostDoggy]

I actually feel sorry for Jones, 20yo trying to develop in a side where he is the key forward, the #1 defender on him every week, with some of the worst delivery in the league coming at him.
I have actually turned a little. Never thought much of Jones but now I'm starting to get it.
On the other hand I have dropped off Higgins big time. I am starting to realise he is never going to be anything he had the potential to be. Having said that I wanted Woods contract for dunny roll last week, now I'm seriously gutted he is injured.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If Hall played tonight, he would have kicked 8.

Collingwood's back half is extremely suspect and they are lucky we have nobody capable of kicking multiple goals up there.

I think the Pies will struggle against the top 4-5 sides.

Great effort from our players, but senior players making th same mistakes and basic/costly errors still make it hard to watch at times.

Very pleased with Roughead -- thought he was great. Higgins had a good game aside from that one dreadful turnover, but positive signs for him moving forward, looked the best he has for 2 years.

Disappointed that Wallis was the sub.

[bornadog]

We are team with lack of skills, explemfied by guys like Addison. Nearly every kick to a player is high above his head, especially into the forward line.

in the end the Pies applied the forward pressure and we turned it over.

[Ghost Dog]

We are team with lack of skills, explemfied by guys like Addison. Nearly every kick to a player is high above his head, especially into the forward line.

in the end the Pies applied the forward pressure and we turned it over.

Dislike this.
It wasn't just these turnovers that cost us the game. It's a team game. The ball doesn't magically appear in our back half.

[bornadog]

turnovers were costly. But they were shared. Addison did work hard and his errors were not the only ones that resulted in goals.

Addison tries hard but he is not up to afl level. Ditto Vez

[EasternWest]

Addison tries hard but he is not up to afl level. Ditto Vez

I reckon you've got the Vez bit backwards. He's up to afl level, but doesn't try hard enough.

[Ghost Dog]

Addison tries hard but he is not up to afl level. Ditto Vez

Not correct. IMO. Murphy, others made some errors tonight. That doesn't make him not up to AFL level.
They have a lot to offer us.

[G-Mo77]

What can I say. I'm disappointed dropping this game but also very pleased. We lacked polish when it counted which they had a little more of. Very pleased with the style of play, a real hard nosed game which Macca's been preaching all season.

[AndrewP6]

I wish Sherman was greedier. Tried to do the team thing.


Stupid thing.
The player he past off to was in a worse position than him.
One of the problems with our game.
Why wouldn't you want to go back and kick the tgoal and be a match winner ?

People are always on his back for wanting to do just that.

[G-Mo77]

People are always on his back for wanting to do just that.

No their not. I'm sure everyone would have been happy if Sherman had a crack at it.

I was actually more upset with Higgins (?) for playing on after he marked it.

[AndrewP6]

No their not. I'm sure everyone would have been happy if Sherman had a crack at it.

I was actually more upset with Higgins (?) for playing on after he marked it.

I hear (not just on WOOF) things like "He's always trying to showboat", "He wants all the glory" etc. I feel if he'd have had a crack and missed, he'd be copping flak for not centring the kick.

[G-Mo77]

I hear (not just on WOOF) things like "He's always trying to showboat", "He wants all the glory" etc. I feel if he'd have had a crack and missed, he'd be copping flak for not centring the kick.

I think he does showboat too much. He could be running into open goal and try and make it as hard as possible. That's always been my beef with Sherman.

I think most people would have preferred he taken the shot.

[Greystache]

I think he does showboat too much. He could be running into open goal and try and make it as hard as possible. That's always been my beef with Sherman.

I think most people would have preferred he taken the shot.

I feel the same way about him, yet I wanted him to take the shot and wouldn't have blamed him if he missed.

[AndrewP6]

Pies by 100+ :eek:
BOG (for us) Murphy
First goal (for us) Griff

Boy am I glad I was wrong. Much better game to watch than I was anticipating.

[Sedat]

I think he does showboat too much. He could be running into open goal and try and make it as hard as possible. That's always been my beef with Sherman.

I think most people would have preferred he taken the shot.
It's not his showboating that pisses me off, it's his crap decision making. That set shot was another example. There wasn't anyone clear on, so he should have taken a deep breath and had a set shot from 20 instead of try to thread a pass that wasn't on. No composure, poor decision making - Sherman's career in a nutshell.

[DragzLS1]

It's not his showboating that pisses me off, it's his crap decision making. That set shot was another example. There wasn't anyone clear on, so he should have taken a deep breath and had a set shot from 20 instead of try to thread a pass that wasn't on. No composure, poor decision making - Sherman's career in a nutshell.

Unfortunately I would have to agree. Sherman just needs to know when to be a bit greedy and when not to be. If he can get this balance right then he will be a very good player. Well done dogs we will learn from our mistakes and the competition will not take us lightly anymore ;) let's rip up north Melbourne and gold coast over the next 2 weeks!

Well done to all of the players and even though there were a few turn overs and miss understandings let's not forget the team on the park havnt all really played together and will take a good season to gel.

[kruder]

It's not his showboating that pisses me off, it's his crap decision making. That set shot was another example. There wasn't anyone clear on, so he should have taken a deep breath and had a set shot from 20 instead of try to thread a pass that wasn't on. No composure, poor decision making - Sherman's career in a nutshell.

Shouldn't the so called senior player calling for the ball also realised he was in an inferior position and pointed to Sherman to have a shot??

If his decision making pisses u off how do u go watching a team of bad decision makers?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's not his showboating that pisses me off, it's his crap decision making. That set shot was another example. There wasn't anyone clear on, so he should have taken a deep breath and had a set shot from 20 instead of try to thread a pass that wasn't on. No composure, poor decision making - Sherman's career in a nutshell.

Higgins was in a fair bit of space and on a much better angle inside 50.

Higgins should have taken the set shot rather than play on, because it took the space away and it put pressure on himself. As a result, he put it across goal.

I would have preferred Sherman to take the shot, but let's not blow it up for the sake of it. If anything, Higgins showed the lack of composure you speak of.

[Djwilly]

I enjoyed that game. I was expecting a total whitewash but was pleasantly surprised. The Dogs are in a 'rebuild' stage & showed a load of promise. The boys IMO played like a completely different team then last week & for me, thats a positive! Go Doggies !!!!

[Sedat]

Higgins was in a fair bit of space and on a much better angle inside 50.

Higgins should have taken the set shot rather than play on, because it took the space away and it put pressure on himself. As a result, he put it across goal.

I would have preferred Sherman to take the shot, but let's not blow it up for the sake of it. If anything, Higgins showed the lack of composure you speak of.
Not sure that kicking the ball from 20m out to 55m out can ever be classed as good decision making, except when it is to maintain possession and ice the clock. We were behind, were really struggling to convert our forward 50 entries, and needed a cool head to take the free shot at goal. Higgins making a lead is fine but can and should be ignored if it means the ball is outside kicking distance. Sherman also didn't cover himself in glory when he blazed away from 50 earlier in the last qtr and kicked it out of bounds but that is just a skill error which the rest of the team wasn't short of last night.

I get that he is important to the team structurally, but it is infuriating that he has some really important tools (pace, line breaking) but continues to be such a poor decision maker at this level, and has been for 8 years.

[Stefcep]

Originally Posted by Stefcep View Post
1. Decision making, decision makinf, decision making.
2. Jones is not, will not ever be a KPF. Has not had a single effective possession. Doesn't help that..
3. We have no system going into the 50 other than kick it long, kick it high.
Contradiction if ever I've heard

Its not all just about the delivery. Barry Hall got some attrocious delivery with us yet managed 80 goals. He could out run his opponent by clever changes in direction, he knew where the goals weere

The ball could hit Jones laces on the chest 30 out and he's about 20-80 chance to kick the goal. Witness his kick on the full from a free kick: no pressure and he kick its about 25 over the boundary. Second year KPF AFL player kicking technique worse than players running around in the WDFL?

B y the end of the season we should be looking at 2.5 average per game from him, by the end of next season 3 or so goals per game if he is the KPF we need. But no he'll get 150 games because he is 6th highest in contested`marks, is only 20-21-22-23-24 with potnetial or some other inconsequential stat.

[Ghost Dog]

It's not his showboating that pisses me off, it's his crap decision making. That set shot was another example. There wasn't anyone clear on, so he should have taken a deep breath and had a set shot from 20 instead of try to thread a pass that wasn't on. No composure, poor decision making - Sherman's career in a nutshell.

Is it not true that he also made some good passes on the night? I think Sherman has some haters on here, no matter what he does or doesn't do.

[SonofScray]

We need more from Sherman and that give off to Higgins was ridiculous, not what we want from him at all. That being said in his game V the dees he showed a hardness and maturity that surprised me and gives me hope he will deliver as an important player.

[Greystache]

Originally Posted by Stefcep View Post
1. Decision making, decision makinf, decision making.
2. Jones is not, will not ever be a KPF. Has not had a single effective possession. Doesn't help that..
3. We have no system going into the 50 other than kick it long, kick it high.

Its not all just about the delivery. Barry Hall got some attrocious delivery with us yet managed 80 goals. He could out run his opponent by clever changes in direction, he knew where the goals weere

The ball could hit Jones laces on the chest 30 out and he's about 20-80 chance to kick the goal. Witness his kick on the full from a free kick: no pressure and he kick its about 25 over the boundary. Second year KPF AFL player kicking technique worse than players running around in the WDFL?

B y the end of the season we should be looking at 2.5 average per game from him, by the end of next season 3 or so goals per game if he is the KPF we need. But no he'll get 150 games because he is 6th highest in contested`marks, is only 20-21-22-23-24 with potnetial or some other inconsequential stat.

So a 21 year old (next season) should be kicking 60+ goals a year or they're no good?

[Sedat]

Is it not true that he also made some good passes on the night? I think Sherman has some haters on here, no matter what he does or doesn't do.
I'm one of his fiercest critics and don' t shy away from it. He could be a really valuable player at this level but I fear any level of improved output from Sherman will always have a ceiling because of his poor decision making. Making the right decisions with ball in hand has never been more crucial in the modern game .

[Ghost Dog]

I'm one of his fiercest critics and don' t shy away from it. He could be a really valuable player at this level but I fear any level of improved output from Sherman will always have a ceiling because of his poor decision making. Making the right decisions with ball in hand has never been more crucial in the modern game .

I understand what you are saying. I can remember also you were against us drafting him.
But as Easton Wood showed last night ( another who has made some shocking decisions, in past games), good coaching goes a long way. If there is one coach and coaching group who can turn it around for Sherman, I firmly believe it is ours, becausem despite the swagger, I believe it is a confidence thing. The pass off to Higgins showed this. Often in the right spot, keen enough, decision making a work in progress. And yes, as a teacher of adults, I do think that old dogs can learn to play to within their limitations, and learn new tricks.

Now, admittedly, I'm not a huge fan. But if you asked yourself, can Sherman be about as good as Steven Milne? You would look at him physically, mentally and have to say: Why not? What he may lack is that extra edge in intensity and our coach promises us he will instil this.

[MrMahatma]

Jones looked a bit crampy(?) at times. Struggled to bend in the last qtr, seemed to lack agility.

Wonder if he needs a week off from getting wacked 3 on 1.

[LongWait]

So a 21 year old (next season) should be kicking 60+ goals a year or they're no good?

Just to put your point another way - here is the record of Jones and a few guys who ended up pretty fair players:

Liam Jones - as a 20 year old - 20 games, 19 goals
Liam Jones - as a 21 year old - so far this season 6 games, 6 goals

Jason Dunstall - as a 20 year old - 0 games, 0 goals
Jason Dunstall as a 21 year old - 16 games, 36 goals

Barry Hall - as a 20 year old - 15 games, 14 goals
Barry Hall - as a 21 year old - 13 games, 6 goals

Gary Ablett Snr - as a 20 year old - 0 games, 0 goals
Gary Ablett Snr - as a 21 year old - 6 games, 9 goals

Wayne Carey - as a 20 year old - 14 games, 28 goals
Wayne Carey - as a 21 year old - 21 games, 46 goals

So, none of these gun players came close to achieving what some consider the pass mark for Liam Jones. I think a few have got lots of goals at a young age - Lockett, Lloyd and Richardson for a start. But to write off Jones for not looking like he's going to kick 60 goals in a season as a 21 year old is unrealistic. Not even the great Wayne Carey would get a pass mark if this standard were applied.

[azabob]

fiercest critics .

I know you point is directly related to Sherman but you appear to be quite a fierce critic all round these days. Which is fair to a point as we as supporters have a lot to be critical about. But on the positive side it is pretty much the same thing week in week out that we are critical about , our disposal and decision making. Hopefully overtime both these things improve, which Im sure they will, as I have seen improvement over the past six weeks.

We have the players we have for the next 17 odd weeks, we need to accept at stages our skills and decision making will be suspect and hope each week we can show the same application and output we did last night.

[Maddog37]

Bottom line is that you can see improvement which is all I really want.

Jones and Dalhaus look tired to me and need a rest. Maybe Dal as a sub would be handy for a week.

The players such as Austin, Vez, Addison need to continue to improve though as at present they are not fit/good enough.

Sherman has the ability to be a good player and we definely look better with his run in the side.

Morris instead of Addison, Williams instead of Austin and throw in Howard for Vez and we will be better.

[Sedat]

I think my criticism is based on player output and execution during a given week, and that I am just as effusive with my praise for players that execute. We did plenty right last night bit it doesn't mean that we should ignore areas of specific concern or point out instances where players didn't perform at the level required. Nobody is a bigger Bob fan than me but his turnover in the last qtr was as anchor worthy as anythins this season. Wood has been bloody awful this season but was exciting and dynamic off half back last night, everything we as supporters hoped to see from him. There's positive and negative every week and I think I offer levels of both in my posts.

[azabob]

I think my criticism is based on player output and execution during a given week, and that I am just as effusive with my praise for players that execute. We did plenty right last night bit it doesn't mean that we should ignore areas of specific concern or point out instances where players didn't perform at the level required. Nobody is a bigger Bob fan than me but his turnover in the last qtr was as anchor worthy as anythins this season. Wood has been bloody awful this season but was exciting and dynamic off half back last night, everything we as supporters hoped to see from him. There's positive and negative every week and I think I offer levels of both in my posts.

I think his mum disagrees. ; )

[whythelongface]

Originally Posted by Stefcep View Post
1. Decision making, decision makinf, decision making.
2. Jones is not, will not ever be a KPF. Has not had a single effective possession. Doesn't help that..
3. We have no system going into the 50 other than kick it long, kick it high.

Its not all just about the delivery. Barry Hall got some attrocious delivery with us yet managed 80 goals. He could out run his opponent by clever changes in direction, he knew where the goals weere

The ball could hit Jones laces on the chest 30 out and he's about 20-80 chance to kick the goal. Witness his kick on the full from a free kick: no pressure and he kick its about 25 over the boundary. Second year KPF AFL player kicking technique worse than players running around in the WDFL?

B y the end of the season we should be looking at 2.5 average per game from him, by the end of next season 3 or so goals per game if he is the KPF we need. But no he'll get 150 games because he is 6th highest in contested`marks, is only 20-21-22-23-24 with potnetial or some other inconsequential stat.

Big call comparing Barry Hall who had 15 -16 years experience to a 4th year player. Sure there ate some criticisms of Jones, but he is still very much in the development phase of his game. Not many key position players get lumbered with being the main go to man at 21 year of age. It is a huge ask and we need to give him time to develop.

To say that he will never make it is ludicrous at least give him a couple of seasons before you write him off.

[Stefcep]

Just to put your point another way - here is the record of Jones and a few guys who ended up pretty fair players:

Liam Jones - as a 20 year old - 20 games, 19 goals
Liam Jones - as a 21 year old - so far this season 6 games, 6 goals

Jason Dunstall - as a 20 year old - 0 games, 0 goals
Jason Dunstall as a 21 year old - 16 games, 36 goals

Barry Hall - as a 20 year old - 15 games, 14 goals
Barry Hall - as a 21 year old - 13 games, 6 goals

Gary Ablett Snr - as a 20 year old - 0 games, 0 goals
Gary Ablett Snr - as a 21 year old - 6 games, 9 goals

Wayne Carey - as a 20 year old - 14 games, 28 goals
Wayne Carey - as a 21 year old - 21 games, 46 goals

So, none of these gun players came close to achieving what some consider the pass mark for Liam Jones. I think a few have got lots of goals at a young age - Lockett, Lloyd and Richardson for a start. But to write off Jones for not looking like he's going to kick 60 goals in a season as a 21 year old is unrealistic. Not even the great Wayne Carey would get a pass mark if this standard were applied.

I think you're getting too hung up on the age. I prefer to look at the senior games they played in their third seasons. I am talking about Jones as KPF with 40-60+ games under his belt.

My expectations of KPF are higher than eg. a HBF. We know that without a good KPF we can't win a flag. We KNOW that. You think its unreasonable to expect 3 straight kick per game-ok cut him some slack for assists- from you a KPF in his third year (If you have expectations of winning a flag, which as a club is an issue we could debate till the cows came home ?

Question: Is Jones the KPF that we will win a flag with?

[always right]

I think you're getting too hung up on the age. I prefer to look at the senior games they played in their third seasons. I am talking about Jones as KPF with 40-60+ games under his belt.

My expectations of KPF are higher than eg. a HBF. We know that without a good KPF we can't win a flag. We KNOW that. You think its unreasonable to expect 3 straight kick per game-ok cut him some slack for assists- from you a KPF in his third year (If you have expectations of winning a flag, which as a club is an issue we could debate till the cows came home ?

Question: Is Jones the KPF that we will win a flag with?

With the right support and or forward structure.....potentially yes.
If we want him to be the go to man....probably no.

[Ghost Dog]

I think you're getting too hung up on the age. I prefer to look at the senior games they played in their third seasons. I am talking about Jones as KPF with 40-60+ games under his belt.

My expectations of KPF are higher than eg. a HBF. We know that without a good KPF we can't win a flag. We KNOW that. You think its unreasonable to expect 3 straight kick per game-ok cut him some slack for assists- from you a KPF in his third year (If you have expectations of winning a flag, which as a club is an issue we could debate till the cows came home ?

Question: Is Jones the KPF that we will win a flag with?

Compare apples and oranges. Look at the size of Hall? Jones is a different player. More mobile, faster, but probably not going to break the bench press record at the Bulldogs.
Jones took some very good contested grabs last week. What was wrong with those?

Even his harshest critics can't write him off 100% at this stage as a KPF. Ludicrous after just a handful of games.

[Stefcep]

Big call comparing Barry Hall who had 15 -16 years experience to a 4th year player. Sure there ate some criticisms of Jones, but he is still very much in the development phase of his game. Not many key position players get lumbered with being the main go to man at 21 year of age. It is a huge ask and we need to give him time to develop.

I remember watching Barry at the Saints when they were worse than we are now, which would have been early in his career. His leading was inteliigent, his kicking technique was natural. He had something.

I will however grant you that the possibility that the club is throwing him in the deep end too soon, possibly he should not be playing senior football at this stage of his career. Its possible but in my eyes i don't think he even has the fundamentals right.


To say that he will never make it is ludicrous at least give him a couple of seasons before you write him off.

Thats right, at the end of his third season, the club should make the call. But even if he's still shit, they won't. Because he will be "only 21".

[Greystache]

I think you're getting too hung up on the age. I prefer to look at the senior games they played in their third seasons. I am talking about Jones as KPF with 40-60+ games under his belt.

My expectations of KPF are higher than eg. a HBF. We know that without a good KPF we can't win a flag. We KNOW that. You think its unreasonable to expect 3 straight kick per game-ok cut him some slack for assists- from you a KPF in his third year (If you have expectations of winning a flag, which as a club is an issue we could debate till the cows came home ?

Question: Is Jones the KPF that we will win a flag with?

So 66 goals per season is the pass mark for you?

Using that argument only 2 KPF's in 2011 were any good (Franklin 82 and Hall 55)? No other player in the AFL averaged 3 goals a game, and no one under 24 managed it. So does that mean there's not one single good young KPF is the AFL in your view?

[Greystache]

I remember watching Barry at the Saints when they were worse than we are now, which would have been early in his career. His leading was inteliigent, his kicking technique was natural. He had something.


at the end of his third season, the club should make the call. But even if he's still shit, they won't. Because he will be "only 21".

Barry Hall's first 3 season of AFL football

4 games 2 goals 3 Behinds

15 games 14 goals 13 behinds

13 games 6 goals 4 behind


Goal kicking accuracy 55%

He should have been delisted before his career began, he was clearly "shit" and never going to make it.

Liam Jones career 31 goals 18 behinds, kicking accuracy 63%

[LostDoggy]

Prior the Murphy mistake, the ump paid the second in the back to Austin. Dawes then knocked him over and should have given away 50. Not sure how an ump can miss that.

We ran out legs but the pies had 3 extra days.

[Stefcep]

Compare apples and oranges. Look at the size of Hall? Jones is a different player. More mobile, faster, but probably not going to break the bench press record at the Bulldogs.

At his best Barry Hall was never about his bulk: he was a leading forward who marked and kicked true at the Swans. When he came to us, he had to rely on his strength because thats how we delivered to him


Jones took some very good contested grabs last week. What was wrong with those?

Irrelevant from a KPF if no score results. Going into last nights game we had kicked 44 goals this season....and we've played some of the worst clubs in the league



Even his harshest critics can't write him off 100% at this stage as a KPF. Ludicrous after just a handful of games.

I'll come back to this thread in 2 years time. I'll be delighted to eat my words: He won't make it.

[SonofScray]

Jones had a shocker. However we expect each KPF prospect to be a White Knight or even better, Chris Grant. He gets marked very harshly because elite hands aside he hasn't matched those expectations. We get frustrated because we think 'white knight KPF' = PREMIERSHIP.

It doesn't.

You have to put the structures in place, get the ball in quick and kick to advantage. If Jones keeps putting in shockers like last night with all that in place, then hang him out to dry.

[G-Mo77]

Jones had a shocker. However we expect each KPF prospect to be a White Knight or even better, Chris Grant. He gets marked very harshly because elite hands aside he hasn't matched those expectations. We get frustrated because we think 'white knight KPF' = PREMIERSHIP.

It doesn't.

You have to put the structures in place, get the ball in quick and kick to advantage. If Jones keeps putting in shockers like last night with all that in place, then hang him out to dry.

Well said.

I've got complete faith in Liam Jones. Not many 21 year olds take the best defenders each week and are double or triple teamed. He doesn't have much help down there to relieve that pressure and he doesn't have a real crumbing forward at his feet. He'll get there when it's in place.

If I remember I'll be happy to rub it in your face in 2 years time Stefcep. :)

[bornadog]

We need more from Sherman and that give off to Higgins was ridiculous, not what we want from him at all. That being said in his game V the dees he showed a hardness and maturity that surprised me and gives me hope he will deliver as an important player.

The pass that Higgin made to Sherman in the last and Harry intercepted and goaled is the one that pissed off the coach. Most supporters blame Higgins but he blamed Sherman for not hitting the ball hard enough.

[Stefcep]

Well said.

I've got complete faith in Liam Jones. Not many 21 year olds take the best defenders each week and are double or triple teamed. He doesn't have much help down there to relieve that pressure and he doesn't have a real crumbing forward at his feet. He'll get there when it's in place.

If I remember I'll be happy to rub it in your face in 2 years time Stefcep. :)

And I'll happy to admit I was a goose.

Especially if it stops the "54 and no more" shit stirring at work...

[SonofScray]

The pass that Higgin made to Sherman in the last and h
Harry intercepted and goaded is the one that pissed off the coach. Most supporters blame Higgins but he blamed Sherman for not hitting the ball hard enough.

Line ball on that one for me. The situation I was referring to was where Sherman should have had a set shot 20m out.

[bornadog]

Line ball on that one for me. The situation I was referring to was where Sherman should have had a set shot 20m out.

What I am saying is Macca saw it differently. He didn't think the Sherman pass to Higgins was that bad, and said maybe Higgins shouldn't have played on. He thought the effort by Sherman not to mark Higgins ball was not good enough.

[immortalmike]

Comparing Liam Jones to Barry Hall is incredibly stupid. One's a CHF and the other was a FFF. Completely different positions. Jones will get better when his fitness does.

[Maddog37]

The problem is that Jones needs to be heavier and fitter. It will take time. Simple as that.

I would not rule out the idea that he will be a future CHB either.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What I am saying is Macca saw it differently. He didn't think the Sherman pass to Higgins was that bad, and said maybe Higgins shouldn't have played on. He thought the effort by Sherman not to mark Higgins ball was not good enough.

Higgins marked it too far out to score. If he goes back to take his kick, Collingwood have time to set up and all Higgins would be able to do is put up a hail Mary to the top of the square.

Sherman should have kicked the goal

[bornadog]

Higgins marked it too far out to score. If he goes back to take his kick, Collingwood have time to set up and all Higgins would be able to do is put up a hail Mary to the top of the square.

Sherman should have kicked the goal

I agree he should have had a shot.

[Maddog37]

Sherman gets potted for lairising and trying to kick freakish goals and when we want him to do it he gets all team player and stuffs it up. Bizarre really but maybe a good sign the coaches message is getting through.

I think Sherman is improving and seems more honest in his play.

[KT31]

Is it not true that he also made some good passes on the night? I think Sherman has some haters on here, no matter what he does or doesn't do.

Nothing to do with hating or loving.
I have never posted a bad post on Sherman.
He was twenty metres out and should of had had a crack.
Instead he passed back 30 metres, Higgings played on, kick's, results in a turn over.
Collingwood run it down and kick a goal.
12 point turn around.:(

[AndrewP6]

Nothing to do with hating or loving.
I have never posted a bad post on Sherman.
He was twenty metres out and should of had had a crack.
Instead he passed back 30 metres, Higgings played on, kick's, results in a turn over.
Collingwood run it down and kick a goal.
12 point turn around.:(

I still think this was the dumber of the two.

[LostDoggy]

I still think this was the dumber of the two.

?
Dumber than Sherman not shooting from 20m out on an angle and passing to a guy that's 55 out?

[KT31]

I still think this was the dumber of the two.

Yes, but without the first dumb act there would have been no necessity for the second.

[chef]

?
Dumber than Sherman not shooting from 20m out on an angle and passing to a guy that's 55 out?

Maybe not dumber, but Higgins should have shown a bit more composure than he did.

[bornadog]

Maybe not dumber, but Higgins should have shown a bit more composure than he did.

He was a long way out and not confident he could kick it so saw the opportunity to try and run around and get closer.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Higgins looked within range to me, and I blame Shaun for the dreadful pass to Shemran in the back half too.

These 2 pieces of play were poor, but aside from that, I thought Higgins was pretty good.

I think Sherman has been pretty solid too.

[LostDoggy]

Higgins looked within range to me, and I blame Shaun for the dreadful pass to Shemran in the back half too.

These 2 pieces of play were poor, but aside from that, I thought Higgins was pretty good.

I think Sherman has been pretty solid too.

Sherman over cooked it anyway. Looked like Higgins had to go back.

[bornadog]

I blame Shaun for the dreadful pass to Shemran in the back half too.

Well the coach and also the commentators on 7 blame Sherman not Higgins. I guess we all focus on the bloke kicking it but surely Sherman should have been aware of O'Brien coming and turned his body to block him from the spoil.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Well the coach and also the commentators on 7 blame Sherman not Higgins. I guess we all focus on the bloke kicking it but surely Sherman should have been aware of O'Brien coming and turned his body to block him from the spoil.

Perhaps, but he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head and Sherman was basically flat footed whilst O'Brien was running with momentum. It's why the kick should not have gone to him at all, but if it did, the ball needed to be placed closer to the boundary line so that it favoured Sherman.

Instead, the ball was kicked closer to the corridor (Sherman's right side of his body) and this made it extremely easy for O'Brien to pick off.

Higgins is the one in control of the ball and can see (and make) the play, I think it's ridiculous to blame Sherman solely for that mistake.

[bornadog]

Perhaps, but he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head and Sherman was basically flat footed whilst O'Brien was running with momentum. It's why the kick should not have gone to him at all, but if it did, the ball needed to be placed closer to the boundary line so that it favoured Sherman.

Instead, the ball was kicked closer to the corridor (Sherman's right side of his body) and this made it extremely easy for O'Brien to pick off.

Higgins is the one in control of the ball and can see (and make) the play, I think it's ridiculous to blame Sherman solely for that mistake.

Ok, you disagree with the coach.

[EasternWest]

Perhaps, but he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head and Sherman was basically flat footed whilst O'Brien was running with momentum. It's why the kick should not have gone to him at all, but if it did, the ball needed to be placed closer to the boundary line so that it favoured Sherman.

Instead, the ball was kicked closer to the corridor (Sherman's right side of his body) and this made it extremely easy for O'Brien to pick off.

Higgins is the one in control of the ball and can see (and make) the play, I think it's ridiculous to blame Sherman solely for that mistake.


Ok, you disagree with the coach.


So does that make TBB wrong?

The coach can have all the experience in the world, but that doesn't remove the fact that the kick from Higgins was an absolute turkey.

Sherman may have attacked it more vigorously (and TBH, I can't remember what he did clearly enough so I'll happily concede that the coach could well also be right with his disappointment in Sherman on that occasion), but as soon as that kick came off Higgins' boot my first reaction was to think it was going to get picked off.

The coach can think what he will, as can you, as can I. It's not whether you agree with the coach or not that concerns me, and I'm not having a dig at you.

But that kick was very poor.

[bornadog]

So does that make TBB wrong?

Did I say that he TBB is wrong? I said he disagrees with the coach


So does that make TBB wrong?

The coach can have all the experience in the world, but that doesn't remove the fact that the kick from Higgins was an absolute turkey.

Sherman may have attacked it more vigorously (and TBH, I can't remember what he did clearly enough so I'll happily concede that the coach could well also be right with his disappointment in Sherman on that occasion), but as soon as that kick came off Higgins' boot my first reaction was to think it was going to get picked off.

The coach can think what he will, as can you, as can I. It's not whether you agree with the coach or not that concerns me, and I'm not having a dig at you.

But that kick was very poor.

If you don't remember why are you commenting. Every one sees it differently, and what I am saying is the coach saw it differently to most supporters.

Supporters just like to bag Higgins so I suspect thats why they say he did the wrong thing.

[EasternWest]

Did I say that he TBB is wrong? I said he disagrees with the coach

No, you didn't. It just seemed that by using that response you were inferring that TBB was incorrect and that the coach was right. Apologies if I upset you.



If you don't remember why are you commenting. Every one sees it differently, and what I am saying is the coach saw it differently to most supporters.

Supporters just like to bag Higgins so I suspect thats why they say he did the wrong thing.

I'm commenting for two reasons: 1) The kick stood out to me as the error in that piece of play. Even after seeing it replayed on Friday night, there was nothing about Sherman's actions that stood out to me as being the problem in that sequence of play. Ergo, I didn't remember his actions as clearly as the coach seems to. I only made the comment in parenthesis to highlight this fact, but am willing to acknowledge that the coach may have seen it differently. 2) This is a public forum, and driven by the thoughts and opinions of its users, of which I am one. Again, I apologise if any of this upset you. I tried to be clear that I wasn't potting you.

I thought Higgins played ok on Friday night, and I'm not one to sink players for one (or two, or three errors. They happen). But I did feel that his kick was poor, and should have either been more direct, or further out towards the boundary line.

Plenty of people bag Higgins. I'm not his biggest fan, but I don't let that influence what I say here. As I said, I thought he did ok against the Pies, but that kick was a howler IMO.

Out of interest BAD, do you think the kick was the problem or Sherman's efforts on the end of it? Not picking a debate, if you're opinion is different to mine that's cool of course, just curious.

[bornadog]

Out of interest BAD, do you think the kick was the problem or Sherman's efforts on the end of it? Not picking a debate, if you're opinion is different to mine that's cool of course, just curious.

No need to apologise because I wasn't upset, you misunderstood what I said to TBB and took it as a criticism of his post. I was just saying his point of view is different than the coaches. In fact the commentors on 7 as well.

In regards to your question, the kick was accurate and chest high, O'Brien made a great spoil and kicked the goal. Perhaps Higgins should have seen O'Brien coming and not kicked it there. On the other hand, Sherman shouldn't just stand there expecting the ball to fall into his arms. The coach said he should have made an extra effort to mark the ball.

There you go a bit of both ways.:D

[EasternWest]

No need to apologise because I wasn't upset, you misunderstood what I said to TBB and took it as a criticism of his post. I was just saying his point of view is different than the coaches. In fact the commentors on 7 as well.

In regards to your question, the kick was accurate and chest high, O'Brien made a great spoil and kicked the goal. Perhaps Higgins should have seen O'Brien coming and not kicked it there. On the other hand, Sherman shouldn't just stand there expecting the ball to fall into his arms. The coach said he should have made an extra effort to mark the ball.

There you go a bit of both ways.:D

No worries ;). I still say 90-10 Higgins, but appreciate reading your take on it. It always interest me that we can all see the same thing happen but take different views from it. Cheers.

[Greystache]

Watched the replay tonight, a couple of things I noted

- Gia had a very good last quarter
- Vez needs to be tougher with the ball in hand
- Higgins kick to Sherman was poor, kicked it to the advantage of O'Brien, gave him little chance
- Hargrave was excellent
- Lake was back to his best
- Walls made a big impact once on, was smart under pressure
- Collingwood won most of the contests after 3/4 time
- We had the better of the coaching battle, we played the match on our terms for most if it

disappointing finish but in a year or two we'd win that match

[LostDoggy]

- We had the better of the coaching battle, we played the match on our terms for most if it


Do you think Buckley is up to it? Collingwood's okay list got a lot of mileage out of Malthouse's wily tactical insight and game day smarts, especially their backline. (Whatever you think of him I think we can all agree that Malthouse is a top shelf coach.)

I really doubt that, for all his strengths, Buckley has anywhere near the same nous or basic rat cunning that Mick would have from a tactical perspective (the same rat cunning that Eade has -- I suppose that's what he brings to the coaching panel for Bucks.. I'll bet good money that the suggestion of O'Brien sneaking -- sneaking, not playing -- forward to kick a couple, just after being exposed as a defender in one-on-one in marking contests with Gia, came from Rocket, as he knew that it would be the best way to even up that individual duel as Gia wouldn't follow Harry down the ground).

[Ghost Dog]

Do you think Buckley is up to it? Collingwood's okay list got a lot of mileage out of Malthouse's wily tactical insight and game day smarts, especially their backline. (Whatever you think of him I think we can all agree that Malthouse is a top shelf coach.)

I really doubt that, for all his strengths, Buckley has anywhere near the same nous or basic rat cunning that Mick would have from a tactical perspective (the same rat cunning that Eade has -- I suppose that's what he brings to the coaching panel for Bucks.. I'll bet good money that the suggestion of O'Brien sneaking -- sneaking, not playing -- forward to kick a couple, just after being exposed as a defender in one-on-one in marking contests with Gia, came from Rocket, as he knew that it would be the best way to even up that individual duel as Gia wouldn't follow Harry down the ground).

Rat cunning! LOL, I spilled my breakfast when I read that.

[bornadog]

Do you think Buckley is up to it? Collingwood's okay list got a lot of mileage out of Malthouse's wily tactical insight and game day smarts, especially their backline. (Whatever you think of him I think we can all agree that Malthouse is a top shelf coach.).

A bit unfair to compare a coach with almost 30 years experience at senior level to a first year coach.

[1eyedog]

Ease up on Sherman and Higgins, we were within a goal of the filth going in to extra time with no idea how much longer was on the clock, these create high pressure situations which can create turnovers. I'm not about to get stuck in over these two mistakes after the effort we put in over four quarters. We need to be better in these situations no doubt and that was what Macca was on about on SEN the other day, but as always there were a hundred contingencies throughout the game that affected the final result. Boyd kicked it to the opposition twice, one resulted in a goal, Jones fumbled in the goal square in the second quarter, Toovey was let off the hook twice from half back one resulted in a goal by him the second a goal assist.

We could have been much closer or even in front in the second half of the last quarter if we all stuck to our role throughout the entire game.

[Greystache]

Do you think Buckley is up to it? Collingwood's okay list got a lot of mileage out of Malthouse's wily tactical insight and game day smarts, especially their backline. (Whatever you think of him I think we can all agree that Malthouse is a top shelf coach.)

I really doubt that, for all his strengths, Buckley has anywhere near the same nous or basic rat cunning that Mick would have from a tactical perspective (the same rat cunning that Eade has -- I suppose that's what he brings to the coaching panel for Bucks.. I'll bet good money that the suggestion of O'Brien sneaking -- sneaking, not playing -- forward to kick a couple, just after being exposed as a defender in one-on-one in marking contests with Gia, came from Rocket, as he knew that it would be the best way to even up that individual duel as Gia wouldn't follow Harry down the ground).

It's too early to tell, but having seen Collingwood's last 2 games live one thing I'm almost certain of is they're not as good as they were the past 2 years.

Their forward pressure and overall defensive intensity has really dropped off, and they are caught between wanting to take the game on through the corridor and applying fierce pressure on the ball carrier, and in effect doing neither really.

They seem caught between 2 game plans, which means they've lost the competitive edge they had previously, and haven't replaced it with anything that's as valuable. They actually remind me of the Bulldogs of 2011, but with a more balanced list they'll still be competitive.