Form and free agency could send Western Bulldogs ruckman Will Minson's stocks soaring

[G-Mo77]

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/04/24/1226337/482963-mark-jamar.jpg

RUCKMEN remain in hot demand, with Mark Jamar, Will Minson, Trent West and Robbie Warnock all coming out of contract and pricking the interest of rival clubs.

The big-man scenario is even more intriguing because two of the most likely suitors - Hawthorn and Collingwood - are in the premiership window.

The Jamar and Warnock situation has been well publicised, but the stocks of once-maligned Western Bulldog Minson have also risen.

Minson, who has thrived in the No.1 ruck role since the departure of Ben Hudson, is out of contract and an unrestricted free agent.

The Bulldogs are keen to retain the 27-year-old, who was almost traded to Gold Coast at the end of 2010, and a new deal is on the radar.

But his size and presence may appeal to the Hawks, who would like another mature ruckman to support Max Bailey. Collingwood is also on the hunt for a ruckman in the mid-20s age bracket.

Minson's manager Dan Richardson made it clear yesterday he was open to talks with the Dogs, even though free agency is providing extra options and bargaining power.

"The short answer, it's not necessarily one that will be put on hold. There is no reason to do that," Richardson said.

"I'm sure there will be some discussion with the club at some point but, at this point in time, there is no update."

As an unrestricted free agent, Minson can walk to the club of his choice without the Dogs having the opportunity of matching the bid. They would receive compensation.

Warnock has been linked to Greater Western Sydney and Collingwood and his manager Colin Young has stated the former Fremantle player, lured to Carlton on about $400,000 a season, wants an opportunity to play senior AFL.

Jamar, an All-Australian ruckman in 2010, will be 29 in August, but has currency for premiership challengers. A new deal with the Demons still appears some way off.

If a club such as Hawthorn offered three years and the opportunity to play in a flag, it may tempt - even if Jamar has said he would be happy to re-sign if Melbourne put a contract in front of him.

Like Minson, Jamar is an unrestricted free agent.

The management of Geelong's West has indicated he is also in no hurry to sign as suitors circle.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/form-and-free-agency-could-send-western-bulldogs-ruckman-will-minsons-stocks-soaring/story-e6frf9jf-1226350395331

[G-Mo77]

I'd rather not get in a bidding war with suitors although I don't want to lose him either. Can Roughy, Cordy and even Campbell hold down our ruck position if we lose him?

[ledge]

How do they work out the compensation?

[G-Mo77]

How do they work out the compensation?

Not sure mate. I did read something about it the other day. I'll have to find it or hope that someone in here can hold their memory for more than a day.

[ledge]

I like Minson but I am not sure we would fight that hard to keep him if the compensation is reasonable.

[G-Mo77]

This is what Minson falls under. I didn't realise he'd been with us 10 years until today. :eek:

A player has served ten or more seasons of AFL football at one club, has already come out of contract once in the period after serving his first eight or more seasons at his club, and is now out of contract. (Unrestricted free agent)
The player is eligible to field offers from all rival clubs.
If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.
His club does NOT have the right to match the presented offer, and the player can move AUTOMATICALLY to the new club of his choice.
His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

I'm assuming the compensation is similar to whats going on now with GC and GWS.

[Flamethrower]

If the compensation is based on other free agency models such as the NFL and MLB, then it will be similar to what has been done with free agents that have signed with the 2 expansion clubs. The main difference is that for the top rated players the new team's 1st or 2nd round draft pick is given to the team losing the free agent.

For example in Major League Baseball all free agents are rated as Class A (top 20% of all players judged of stats from last 2 seasons), Class B (21-40%) and the rest.

When a Class A free agent signs with a new team the old team receives the new team's 1st or 2nd round draft pick (the top 15 picks are protected, so if the new team's 1st pick is in the top 15 then their 2nd pick is traded) AND a supplementary selection after the 1st round has been completed.

When a Class B free agent signs with a new team, the old team only receives the supplementary draft pick after the 1st round.

If a team loses any other free agent (outside the top 40%) there is no compensation.

The system in the NFL is lot more complicated, as teams are only compensated if the value of players lost exceeds the value of players gained during the free agency period each year. The value of players is determined by a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason awards. It seems that it is rare that a team gains a compensatory selection before the 3rd round, with most in the last 2 rounds of the draft.

[LostDoggy]

Would anybody be surprised if the Dogs were the first to lose a player to free agency?

[The Coon Dog]

Would anybody be surprised if the Dogs were the first to lose a player to free agency?

Not Sedat :D

[bornadog]

Fantasia on SEN NOW 12.12pm

[bornadog]

Fantasia on SEN NOW 12.12pm

Didn't say much just that Will is a required player:rolleyes:

Didn't give me any confidence that he will be made an offer soon.

[Bulldog4life]

Will has had a good season so far. If he keeps it up I hope he stays with us.

[ledge]

Didn't say much just that Will is a required player:rolleyes:

Didn't give me any confidence that he will be made an offer soon.

Interesting, will the dogs wait to see what other offers he gets or do we make an offer first, either way his manager will be looking around whether we make first offer or not.

[w3design]

How do they work out the compensation?

If the League's previous performances re compensation for losing players is any guide. I would say Very Badly!!!!
May the Rich get stronger, and Hell take the poorer seems their clear motto.

[chef]

Would anybody be surprised if the Dogs were the first to lose a player to free agency?

Nope.

[LostDoggy]

Load up on the picks if Minnow wants out. Cordy and Roughie should be able to shoulder some more of the load in 12 months time. If you ask me whether Minnow or a late first or early second round pick in 2012 will be worth more in 4-5 years I'll tell you it's the pick (as long as we get it right).

All that said, if the AFL is going to screw us over and give us a late third-rounder I'll drive to AB's house myself and tell him where to shove it.

[bornadog]

if the AFL is going to screw us over and give us a late third-rounder I'll drive to AB's house myself and tell him where to shove it.

I would love to see that:D

[Rocco Jones]

I have been really impressed by Will this year and I am really glad we didn't get the trade down with GC.

It really goes to show the enormous difference between the 1st ruck and 2ndr ruck roles. Now that he is in the role that suits him full time, he is really showing his value.

I understand how fans if may still be dismissive and not wanting to get in a bidding war but I truly fear that if he goes, we will be talking about Roughy/Cordy in the same way that we talk about Jones. I guess our insurance is that Campbell is physically mature.

[Hotdog60]

I have been really impressed by Will this year and I am really glad we didn't get the trade down with GC.

It really goes to show the enormous difference between the 1st ruck and 2ndr ruck roles. Now that he is in the role that suits him full time, he is really showing his value.

I understand how fans if may still be dismissive and not wanting to get in a bidding war but I truly fear that if he goes, we will be talking about Roughy/Cordy in the same way that we talk about Jones. I guess our insurance is that Campbell is physically mature.

CG got this wrong they opted for Fraser and Will was always a better player. A gift selection to the wobbles on a player they could have got in the draft after he was delisted.

[LostDoggy]

Will is one of those players we could have gotten rid of instead of letting him develop into what we saw Friday Night. Big Will just wouldn't be the same at any other club

Still, gotta admit I never expected to see the headline "Western Bulldogs ruckman Will Minson's stocks soaring" kudos to him, lets hope he stays right where he is.

[Drunken Bum]

We should be doing everything we can to sign Will and let him know that if he wants to go to another club we will be more than happy to organise a FAIR trade for him. We are going to get shafted by any compo and not get anywhere near market value for a decent ruckman. Didn't the filth give up something like pick 11 for Wood?
I would prefer to keep him personally as i have always thought he would be at least a good solid number one ruck but if we were able to get a good draft pick for him, not a crap one plucked out of thin air pushing our other picks back, i wouldn't have any issues if he left. I'll be gutted if he goes as a free agent and would be another nail in the coffin of me as a passionate supporter.


The big fella is doing well as my smokey in supercoach too btw, just a shame i partnered him with Mummy :/

[GVGjr]

My mail is that we are very interested in offering Tom Campbell a two or three year before the end of the season so I wonder given the strength of our list and where we are likely to finish over the next couple of years if we would like to listen to offers for Will.

My preference is to keep him but for the right offer that might change.

[Drunken Bum]

My mail is that we are very interested in offering Tom Campbell a two or three year before the end of the season so I wonder given the strength of our list and where we are likely to finish over the next couple of years if we would like to listen to offers for Will.

My preference is to keep him but for the right offer that might change.

I think we would be mad not to listen to offers but first we must re-sign him to do that otherwise anyone can take him as a free agent and we get shafted with the compensation. Does anyone here believe that we will get anywhere near what we could get in a trade as compensation if he went as a free agent? The so called formula will not take into account that clubs are prepared to pay well over for an established decent number one ruck

[Desipura]

My mail is that we are very interested in offering Tom Campbell a two or three year before the end of the season so I wonder given the strength of our list and where we are likely to finish over the next couple of years if we would like to listen to offers for Will.

My preference is to keep him but for the right offer that might change.
If we do offer Tom Campbell a 2 or 3 year contract, that tells me they rate him very highly as he is still only a rookie.
We could potentially get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Minson given ruckman are in huge demand.
Imagine having 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders and 2 third rounders in this years draft?
I would jump at that!

[Sedat]

Didn't say much just that Will is a required player:rolleyes:

Didn't give me any confidence that he will be made an offer soon.
I'm obviously a critic of Fantasia but that interview was utterly appalling. It was almost as though he didn't give a toss that our clear no.1 ruckman could well be lost at the end of the season. The perception that we roll over and let the opposition gouge the eyes out of our playing list was not exactly refuted by today's interview.

"Whatever happens will happen" is flippant, dismissive and embarrassing. Could you imagine Balme talking about the loss of a Trent West in the same flippant manner? That is just garbage coming from the person entrusted to head our footy dept. As Rocco has pointed out, Minson is one of the best performed ruckmen in 2012 to date - losing him will hurt the club because Roughead and Cordy are nowhere near ready to ruck full-time against the monsters in the AFL, and Campbell is good insurance but nothing more at this stage.

[w3design]

It is nice to see big Will getting some support on this forum now. Anyone who watched his year at VFL level last year could see quite clearly he was a mile better than anyone at that level as a first ruck. Clearly a class above.
And I have heard all the arguments about the differences between the two levels, but sorry, I just don't buy that. The best at that level are invariably good enough to make it at AFL level, Pods., Mos., Picken etc etc. You could name many.

As a first ruck Will brings a level of aggression as well, and while I really like Roughy and Ayce, they don't have that bit of mongrel in them. Campbell just might though in a couple of years time.

I say lets tie Will up ASAP.

As for Fantasia, isn't Jason Mc the list manager now? I would hate to think we appointed him only to have him roll over as easily as some have in the past. His history suggests he is no body's toy poodle, so hopefully he will be proactive, and really play hard ball on the clubs behalf.

[bornadog]

I'm obviously a critic of Fantasia but that interview was utterly appalling. It was almost as though he didn't give a toss that our clear no.1 ruckman could well be lost at the end of the season. The perception that we roll over and let the opposition gouge the eyes out of our playing list was not exactly refuted by today's interview.

"Whatever happens will happen" is flippant, dismissive and embarrassing. Could you imagine Balme talking about the loss of a Trent West in the same flippant manner? That is just garbage coming from the person entrusted to head our footy dept. As Rocco has pointed out, Minson is one of the best performed ruckmen in 2012 to date - losing him will hurt the club because Roughead and Cordy are nowhere near ready to ruck full-time against the monsters in the AFL, and Campbell is good insurance but nothing more at this stage.

I felt the same as you; what is wrong with our Head of the Football Department?

Did you see Eddie today talking about Cloke, went off his head of any suggestions that he would leave Collingwood.

[MrMahatma]

Shows how long it takes to develop/peak as a tall. 10yrs before becoming the number 1 man. He possibly would've got there earlier if given the chance. But 10 years... Why draft a ruck? Just trade for one. 10 yrs is a long time to put into a guy.

[Greystache]

Shows how long it takes to develop/peak as a tall. 10yrs before becoming the number 1 man. He possibly would've got there earlier if given the chance. But 10 years... Why draft a ruck? Just trade for one. 10 yrs is a long time to put into a guy.

That's a really pertinent point, one that I think will become more and more relevant. I can see less ruckmen being drafted out of the under 18's and the state leagues becoming the place where clubs source ruckmen who've had a couple of years to mature. Campbell could be the prototype.

[Remi Moses]

Been solid will, no doubt. Pretty disappointing after finally being the number 1 Banana he ups and leaves.

[Remi Moses]

I felt the same as you; what is wrong with our Head of the Football Department?

Did you see Eddie today talking about Cloke, went off his head of any suggestions that he would leave Collingwood.

Like to see a little more passion with our club, they seem to be meek.
Mind you Eddie making the " Hacking scandal " remark was way over the top!

[chef]

I think we would be mad not to listen to offers but first we must re-sign him to do that otherwise anyone can take him as a free agent and we get shafted with the compensation. Does anyone here believe that we will get anywhere near what we could get in a trade as compensation if he went as a free agent? The so called formula will not take into account that clubs are prepared to pay well over for an established decent number one ruck

Is he restricted or unrestricted though?

[Ghost Dog]

Shows how long it takes to develop/peak as a tall. 10yrs before becoming the number 1 man. He possibly would've got there earlier if given the chance. But 10 years... Why draft a ruck? Just trade for one. 10 yrs is a long time to put into a guy.
You and Paul Roos Mahatma
He made the exact same point in a recent article. The Swans never developed rucks under his tenure and always traded for them. They take too long to develop, in his view.

[LostDoggy]

I felt the same as you; what is wrong with our Head of the Football Department?

Did you see Eddie today talking about Cloke, went off his head of any suggestions that he would leave Collingwood.

Agree, it's poor form to blow off a comment of "whatever happens, happens!". Just how unprofessional do we sound?