Travis Cloke?

[LostDoggy]

While we all know how reliable Damian Barret is in regards to player movements (Brian Lake to leave the Dogs anyone?), on the Footy Show last night he "revealed" that the Dogs have made inquiries about what it would cost to bring Travis Cloke to the Kennel. We all know that clubs have always looked into gun players coming out of contract, but I was just wondering what all your thoughts were on this story? It's pretty obvious we need a gun forward but do we want him given how much it is likely to set us back?

[The Underdog]

I'm not sure I could imagine anything less likely to happen in the world. We most likely can't offer what Collingwood could, we certainly couldn't offer what GWS can. Why would he possibly want to move to us? We'd have to trade Cooney, Lake and a couple of others to make cap room for a start. then convince him to leave the almighty Collingwood cash dollars.

[bornadog]

Its not going to happen so not worth thinking about.

[LostDoggy]

I agree Underdog, we'd have to trade a few guns to satisfy Collingwood and free up salary cap room. I have complete faith in Macca's ability to teach young players and we have more than enough young, talented KP prospects already. It might mean a few years of pain, but Jones, Panos and Hill all have great potential and by all reports Redpath and Campbell are competitive animals. Not worth it IMO.

[LostDoggy]

I,d take Bret "Who What" Thornton instead of Travis "The Snooze Missile" Cloke

.

[Mantis]

I,d take Bret "Who What" Thornton instead of Travis "The Snooze Missile" Cloke

.

Yeah ok. :eek:

[1eyedog]

I,d take Bret "Who What" Thornton instead of Travis "The Snooze Missile" Cloke

.

I assume this means that you are totally not interested in Cloke, rather than being serious.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah ok. :eek:

Oh come one , it would great to have the big kid around , sort of like having a more useful version of Chad Morgan expect we would be allowed to poke him with a stick , he's only 27 , can play forward or back , he would,nt be a big burden on the wages and is a Free Agent
( sounds like a kids game " I,ll swap you a Mossad Sniper for a Stasi Counter Intelligence Agent " )

.

[Remi Moses]

I'd rather Sigrid Thornton than Brett

[Remi Moses]

While we all know how reliable Damian Barret is in regards to player movements (Brian Lake to leave the Dogs anyone?), on the Footy Show last night he "revealed" that the Dogs have made inquiries about what it would cost to bring Travis Cloke to the Kennel. We all know that clubs have always looked into gun players coming out of contract, but I was just wondering what all your thoughts were on this story? It's pretty obvious we need a gun forward but do we want him given how much it is likely to set us back?

First sentence sums it up.
How is Brian Going at his new club?
Pie in the Sky stuff ( no pun intended)

[LostDoggy]

Oh come one , it would great to have the big kid around , sort of like having a more useful version of Chad Morgan expect we would be allowed to poke him with a stick , he's only 27 , can play forward or back , he would,nt be a big burden on the wages and is a Free Agent
( sounds like a kids game " I,ll swap you a Mossad Sniper for a Stasi Counter Intelligence Agent " )

.

You're kidding arent you?

[Ghost Dog]

I'd rather Sigrid Thornton than Brett

Well Melbourne were thinking of Olivia Newton John there for a while, just to add a bit of hardness to their midfield. So Sigrid may not be out of the question!

Come on seriously, Brett Thorton? Wasn't he playing for the Bullants for large parts of last season?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Travis Cloke is a bonefide superstar and we could only get him in our wildest dreams.

[Flamethrower]

Travis Cloke is an unrestricted free agent next year. We have a lot more room in our salary cap than Collingwood, especially after they had to fork out top dollar to Dane Swan, Scott Pendlebury and Dale Thomas.

The Giants will probably offer Cloke the most money - estimates have ranged from $1.3m to $1.5m per season. The Pies salary cap issues will limit their offer to something around $750K per season, while Fremantle are being rumoured to be offerring in the range of $1m/season.

If we have room in the salary cap to match Fremantle's offer, we are right in the hunt to secure Cloke IF he values cold hard cash over team loyalty.

Whether we should go down this road or not is a different question - I doubt we will because we are a fair way from challenging for a flag.

[Bulldog Revolution]

The club should be asking questions about the availability of a player like Cloke

But a lot of water will have to go under the bridge to actually get him to the Kennel

He's a fine player but his mental approach does concern me

[BulldogBelle]

We wouldn't land a player like Cloke from a club like Collingwood

If he goes anywhere it will be to a club like Freo who will pay him top dollar and may have reasonable finals prospects from 2013-2015

[Sedat]

This story reeks of the club responding to some cheap goading from a gutter scribe and being seem to be doing their due diligence on an out of contract player. Then our guys can at least say 'we exhausted all available options'. Nothing more than window dressing.

[Mantis]

This story reeks of the club responding to some cheap goading from a gutter scribe and being seem to be doing their due diligence on an out of contract player. Then our guys can at least say 'we exhausted all available options'. Nothing more than window dressing.

That's bullcrap... Fanta will be all over this one. :rolleyes:

[westdog54]

This story reeks of the club responding to some cheap goading from a gutter scribe and being seem to be doing their due diligence on an out of contract player. Then our guys can at least say 'we exhausted all available options'. Nothing more than window dressing.

Balls.

The club made no comment when Barrett went to them on the story.

Besides, even if they did, the conversation would have gone something along the lines of:

"We know Travis is out of contract, what will it take to get him to the club"

"Well, Freo are offering $1m, GWS can beat that"

"Fair enough, thanks for your time"

I'm no fan of Fantasia either but you're giving way too much thought to this story.

[LostDoggy]

Travis Cloke is a bonefide superstar and we could only get him in our wildest dreams.

Disagree. He is used very astutely by his coaching staff to maximise his abilities
but if we are calling travis cloke a superstar then what do you call EJ , Buddy, Matthews,
Grant, Both Ablett's etc (the list goes on) ? They must be a superhuman race from outer space if he is a superstar. He is not a superstar, and also he wears
a girly glove:D

[MrMahatma]

He's pretty, pretty, prettty, pretty good. IMO.

[Hotdog60]

I wouldn't want him, didn't like his attitude complaining to the umpires for ever contest he didn't win.

But hey what would I know, I was against B.Hall coming to our club.:o

[Bulldog4life]

Disagree. He is used very astutely by his coaching staff to maximise his abilities
but if we are calling travis cloke a superstar then what do you call EJ , Buddy, Matthews,
Grant, Both Ablett's etc (the list goes on) ? They must be a superhuman race from outer space if he is a superstar. He is not a superstar, and also he wears
a girly glove:D

I agree. The term superstar is too widely used these days.

[1eyedog]

I wouldn't want him, didn't like his attitude complaining to the umpires for ever contest he didn't win.

But hey what would I know, I was against B.Hall coming to our club.:o

Yep he's a sook, not a good look or example for the rest of our players. Could use his talents though ;)

[LostDoggy]

Travis Cloke!? Pfft we have Tory Dickson :p

[Sedat]

He's pretty, pretty, prettty, pretty good. IMO.
Thank you Larry David :)

[BulldogBelle]

Dogs, Demons in hunt for Cloke

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dogs-demons-in-hunt-for-cloke-20120516-1yrl8.html





The Bulldogs' interest in Cloke is based upon the club's desperate need for a power forward, the club having struggled to convert the deluge of opportunities created by its midfield in the wake of Barry Hall's retirement.

To date, the club's new list manager, Jason McCartney, has met with Carr to ascertain the All-Australian's situation, what Cloke is seeking and whether he is genuinely interested in leaving via free agency.

[Ghost Dog]

Dogs, Demons in hunt for Cloke

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dogs-demons-in-hunt-for-cloke-20120516-1yrl8.html





"The Bulldogs' interest in Cloke is based upon the club's desperate need for a power forward, the club having struggled to convert the deluge of opportunities created by its midfield in the wake of Barry Hall's retirement."

To date, the club's new list manager, Jason McCartney, has met with Carr to ascertain the All-Australian's situation, what Cloke is seeking and whether he is genuinely interested in leaving via free agency.

Under the new free agency system, Cloke is a restricted free agent at the end of this season, so Collingwood is allowed to match the best offer and retain him.

So why would he leave if Collingwood can match any offer? I guess they will have salary cap issues if it goes to high won't they. I'm really not sure about this one. He would be great, but would cost us the Smorgon family silverwear. Tory Dickson might get the job done!

[bornadog]

Under the new free agency system, Cloke is a restricted free agent at the end of this season, so Collingwood is allowed to match the best offer and retain him.

So why would he leave if Collingwood can match any offer? I guess they will have salary cap issues if it goes to high won't they. I'm really not sure about this one. He would be great, but would cost us the Smorgon family silverwear.

With the stars they have, like Swan, Pendles, Thomas, Beam etc they will have salary cap issues. Our Stars are ageing and we have a massive gap in the middle range, so not many on massive salaries. I would pay Griffen a lot of money, Lake is in his last years and will probably go on the vets list, Cooney is gone, Murphy at the end of his career as is Boyd, so no more A graders left.

I would have Cloke in a heartbeat if we can fit him in and he wants to play for us. He is still only 25 years old.

[The Coon Dog]

So why would he leave if Collingwood can match any offer? I guess they will have salary cap issues if it goes to high won't they.

You've hit the nail on the head. If another club offers Cloke a salary, Collingwwod is then compelled to match it if they wish to retain him. Clubs may look at this as a strategy in order to see middle to lower tier players squeezed out & as such be available, due to salary cap restraints.

[Mofra]

He's the best contested mark in the game and a genuine power forward. If GWS is out of the race as per media claims, there's no harm in asking the question.

[bornadog]

He's the best contested mark in the game and a genuine power forward. If GWS is out of the race as per media claims, there's no harm in asking the question.

I think the one issue for us, might be that Freo want to offer him a 5 year contract which is a huge risk. But then again you have to live in Perth:D

[Ghost Dog]

I think the one issue for us, might be that Freo want to offer him a 5 year contract which is a huge risk. But then again you have to live in Perth:D

Tarrant came out and highlighted that issue didn't he? You are right. It's a big commitment.

The other thing is - Is there not a slight advantage in developing our own key forwards?
It allows the younger players to gel with the younger forwards and work as a team.
All I'm saying is, necessity is the mother of invention and up pops Dickson - other solutions will come. Jones will come along,
as will Cordy. For the price of Cloke we can sure up our backline which is a concern as well. Williams has suspect shoulders.
Marko is a toiler but not a Lake. Lake is towards the end, more than the beginning.

[1eyedog]

We cannot possibly be in position to offer him more than 1M as suggested, if we are we are better off spending the money elsewhere and looking for someone half his wage to support Jones.

[bornadog]

The other thing is - Is there not a slight advantage in developing our own key forwards? .

In your years of following the dogs, how many great forwards have we developed?

Since 1970, I can think of Bernie Quinlan and we lost him, Kelvin Templeton and we lost him (thank god his knee was bung), and Chris Grant. So in 42 years three players.

Maybe I missed someone, but great forwards are a rarity.

I would love to see Jones and Cloke play together.

[bornadog]

We cannot possibly be in position to offer him more than 1M as suggested, if we are we are better off spending the money elsewhere and looking for someone half his wage to support Jones.

Why can't we for once in our history get a player of his calibre instead of someone at the end of their career. Who is this someone at half his wage and probably half his ability?

[Ghost Dog]

In your years of following the dogs, how many great forwards have we developed?

Since 1970, I can think of Bernie Quinlan and we lost him, Kelvin Templeton and we lost him (thank god his knee was bung), and Chris Grant. So in 42 years three players.

Maybe I missed someone, but great forwards are a rarity.

I would love to see Jones and Cloke play together.


Dickson and Jones + Cordy. Once they develop, that's a pretty gun forward line.

BUT on the other hand, what a PR coup for the club if they can get Cloke?

[Murphy'sLore]

Not worth it, we are a few years off having a real crack. The club would be better off spending the money elsewhere.

[bornadog]

Jones + Cordy. Once they develop, that's a pretty gun forward line. ?

If they develop, they are a long way off at this stage. Both are 20/21 years old and have loads of potential, But I have seen this so many times before. Fingers crossed. Dickson is not a KPF, he is a HFF.

Cloke is ready made and proven.

[Greystache]

In your years of following the dogs, how many great forwards have we developed?

Since 1970, I can think of Bernie Quinlan and we lost him, Kelvin Templeton and we lost him (thank god his knee was bung), and Chris Grant. So in 42 years three players.

Maybe I missed someone, but great forwards are a rarity.

I would love to see Jones and Cloke play together.

Simon Beasley was pretty handy.

I agree with your view though, we should be as well placed as any club in the AFL to get Cloke. Our vets are retiring or being put on the vets lists, our mid-age players bar one or two are average at best, and the rest of the list are kids who haven't done anything. Unless we're dramatically overpaying foot soldiers we should be able to get Cloke easily.

I just hope the group running the club don't have the same pauper outlook as many of our supporters- take 3rd best and hope one day we might end up with 2nd best.

[Greystache]

If they develop, they are a long way off at this stage. Both are 20/21 years old and have loads of potential, But I have seen this so many times before. Fingers crossed. Dickson is not a KPF, he is a HFF.

Cloke is ready made and proven.

Also in 5 years when Cloke is ready to retire those two will be 26 and just hitting the peak of their careers.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's an interesting one.

I'd absolutely love Cloke to play for us, naturally -- he's without doubt the best forward in the game. His work rate and contested marking is absolutely phenomenal.

My concern is that at 25 he isn't quite suited to us. We look like being 3 years off (at least), and at that age Cloke would be 28 going on 29. With the way he plays, I am not so sure he'll still be so dominant.

Riewoldt is a case in point. His body has tired considerably in the last 12 months and I assume he is around that 28-30 mark? It could be possible that because of the way these two play, Cloke will fall into a similar trap.

It's also a hell of a lot of money and it might be a short term fix to avoid doing what we desperately need to: rebuild the list.

[1eyedog]

Why can't we for once in our history get a player of his calibre instead of someone at the end of their career. Who is this someone at half his wage and probably half his ability?

I would have taken Setanta for nothing to support Jones/Cordy.

Good ordinary forwards like Minton-Connell and James Cook excelled with a strong midfield and provided strong foward targets in 1996 where we were a kick away from a Grand Final. Are we going to win a flag in the next three years with a Travis Cloke? I don't think so, he's not the answer, he's not a big goal kicker, his on-field body language is terrible, his best is the best in the competition but his worse is quite ordinary and I want him at my club about as much as I wanted Fevola.

Spend the money getting a promising young key back to support Williams (it's looking scary down there post Lake/Hargrave/Morris) and another outside mid to support Dahlhaus and options for Libba/Smith/Wallis in the centre, who are the future mids of the club. We have two key forward prospects now, down back is where the problem will be in two years.

[Mantis]

As per TBB's post he shouldn't be on our radar. If we were going to be a contender next year then it's a yes, but we won't be so at his age it's an expensive exercise.

We should be focusing on using our 2 x top 6 or 8 picks at this draft to get the 'A' grade types we need.

[bornadog]

Simon Beasley was pretty handy.

Beasley was great, I didn't include him because we didn't develop him, although he did come to us from a lesser competition, so debatable.



I just hope the group running the club don't have the same pauper outlook as many of our supporters- take 3rd best and hope one day we might end up with 2nd best. Reading the posts so far in this thread, I am afraid that will be the case:(

[Twodogs]

If they develop, they are a long way off at this stage. Both are 20/21 years old and have loads of potential, But I have seen this so many times before. Fingers crossed. Dickson is not a KPF, he is a HFF.

Cloke is ready made and proven.


Over the last few years our development of tall forwards has been abysmal. Taking a player who has already developed into the best KPP forward at the age of 25 is a no-brainer.

[LostDoggy]

Interesting to hear the idea that we are 3 years off challenging, which I agree with. But if you consider for example on the weekend we were pumping the ball in to forward 50 at will for no where near the results we should have received. Put a Travis Cloke there and I think our development would be considerably fast tracked.

We have future gems in Roughead Cordy and Jones but I am very happy to see Jason finding out about this. Austin has done exceptional since coming in, considering he had a shoulder operation and limited pre season, Markovic is a solid defender who competes and Williams can play. All of these are 25 of age or below not to mention our talls we are preparing at Williamstown. Our defense is going to be ok!

Our midfield is going to be more than ok. As many posters have stated I cant see how we wouldn't have salary room. It just makes sense. He's a jet and can help our club get better. For once we could offer him more than Collingwood could match I would imagine.

The fact is we DO NOT have to give up a Griffen or our 2 First rounders for this year to get him. We would get him for what we pay him. Have to go after him, I'm glad we appear keen :)

[Remi Moses]

We're playing under a salary cap system and our club clearly has the room.
The best key forward in the game, we'd be crazy not to entertain the prospect.
For mine Dad's trying to get a better deal from the Pies and reckon it's unlikely he'd go, however this will put pressure on their medium types .

[Remi Moses]

Over the last few years our development of tall forwards has been abysmal. Taking a player who has already developed into the best KPP forward at the age of 25 is a no-brainer.

Agree entirely. This notion we "can't afford him" is nonsense

[DragzLS1]

can we forget about Cloke really would not be happy seeing him come in.

Jones and Cordy to get games over the next 2 years and use the extra money to keep some of our young good players signed up ect..

[1eyedog]

A very divided board on this one.

[chef]

No brainer for me.

If we could pick up the best KPF in the league and not have to give up anything than salary cap room we should go for it a hard as we can. We would be a top 4 contender this year with Cloke in our forward line.

[bornadog]

No brainer for me. If we could pick up the best KPF in the league and not have to give up anything than salary room we should go for it a hard as we can.

I can't believe that if there was an opportunity to snag the best KPF in the AFL, some posters would say no.

In the past 20 years we have brought to the club many KPF's but all at the end of their career, yet here is an opportunity to put in a bid for a 25 year old.


We would be a top 4 contender this year with Cloke in our forward line.

We are currently 6th for inside 50's, Cloke would have a ball with that. Collingwood are 9th.

[Rocco Jones]

No brainer for me.

If we could pick up the best KPF in the league and not have to give up anything than salary room we should go for it a hard as we can.

This is the way I see it. The fact that we won't have to trade away anything is massive.

We are a side all about contested footy. Our kicing skils are poor and we mainly go with long kicks forward. He is the perfect key forward for us.

I don't expect us to get him but I full support the club chasing him. What is there to lose? Cap space? It's not like we are packed with mega stars demanding big bucks, if we are near the cap I would be worried. I am also a believer that you shouldn't have big space left in your cap as it is a great motive for agents to demand more from their individual clients.

[chef]

I can't believe that if there was an opportunity to snag the best KPF in the AFL, some posters would say no.

In the past 20 years we have brought to the club many KPF's but all at the end of their career, yet here is an opportunity to put in a bid for a 25 year old.



We are currently 6th for inside 50's, Cloke would have a ball with that. Collingwood are 9th.

And imagine how much Jones would improve if he didn't have the two best defenders from the opposition crashing into him at every contest.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Two questions for mine:

1) Does anyone see us challenging within the next 2 years? If not, then is it really a worthwhile exercise in getting Cloke to the club? He would see us jump up the ladder, but if we are in that 4-8 bracket then we're missing out on rebuilding the list with some early draft picks.

Unless we think we can challenge (I don't think we can) I think it's potentially more harmful.

2) All the above aside, does anyone think Cloke will leave Collingwood? Genuine question here. He's their best player and has had a great career there. Not many big stars on big pay packets are going to leave Collingwood. As we know, his father has held out on contract talks once or twice before to inflate his son's value.

I'd love to see Collingwood lose some of their best players, given they rarely lose anyone.

[bornadog]

Two questions for mine:

1) Does anyone see us challenging within the next 2 years? If not, then is it really a worthwhile exercise in getting Cloke to the club? He would see us jump up the ladder, but if we are in that 4-8 bracket then we're missing out on rebuilding the list with some early draft picks.

Unless we think we can challenge (I don't think we can) I think it's potentially more harmful.

Anything is possible and maybe we could challenge if there was improvement in the younger players.

I don't understand how it could be harmful?




2) All the above aside, does anyone think Cloke will leave Collingwood? Genuine question here. He's their best player and has had a great career there. Not many big stars on big pay packets are going to leave Collingwood. As we know, his father has held out on contract talks once or twice before to inflate his son's value.

There is a chance he would leave but being a Bulldogs supporter, I don't think he will come to us. But, I commend the club if they go for him as this is something we don't normally do.


I'd love to see Collingwood lose some of their best players, given they rarely lose anyone.

Imagine Eddie:D

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Anything is possible and maybe we could challenge if there was improvement in the younger players.

I don't understand how it could be harmful?

Harmful in the sense that we won't be able to properly rebuild the list with early draft talent. I've got no statistics, but generally the 'A' grade players come in the first 8 or so picks.

In 2 years time, our solid senior core will be effectively gone. Cooney, Lake, Morris, Hargrave, Murphy, Giansiracusa and Boyd are still very good players. It's difficult to see us being able to replace any of them given the current talent on our list. This is why these next 2-3 drafts are the most important in the club's history IMO.

We will need the early picks, but if we get Cloke, I feel it'll just paper over the serious cracks we have in the side. It'll elevate us into the 4th-8th position but we don't have the cattle (currently) to go further.

Although we are desperate for a good forward target (and Cloke is the best in the game), we have a fair few other holes too.


There is a chance he would leave but being a Bulldogs supporter, I don't think he will come to us. But, I commend the club if they go for him as this is something we don't normally do.

Imagine Eddie:D

He would have a public meltdown! ;)

[Hotdog60]

In your years of following the dogs, how many great forwards have we developed?

Since 1970, I can think of Bernie Quinlan and we lost him, Kelvin Templeton and we lost him (thank god his knee was bung), and Chris Grant. So in 42 years three players.

Maybe I missed someone, but great forwards are a rarity.

I would love to see Jones and Cloke play together.

Does Shane Loveless count.:D

[1eyedog]

Harmful in the sense that we won't be able to properly rebuild the list with early draft talent. I've got no statistics, but generally the 'A' grade players come in the first 8 or so picks.

In 2 years time, our solid senior core will be effectively gone. Cooney, Lake, Morris, Hargrave, Murphy, Giansiracusa and Boyd are still very good players. It's difficult to see us being able to replace any of them given the current talent on our list. This is why these next 2-3 drafts are the most important in the club's history IMO.

We will need the early picks, but if we get Cloke, I feel it'll just paper over the serious cracks we have in the side. It'll elevate us into the 4th-8th position but we don't have the cattle (currently) to go further.

Although we are desperate for a good forward target (and Cloke is the best in the game), we have a fair few other holes too.



He would have a public meltdown! ;)

Yes it will be made all the worse that the Pies put up with Jason and Cameron just to get Travis and then they lose him to us. :D

[Sockeye Salmon]

It's more important to be young than good.


Some people are saying they would rather Chris Knights and Jordan Russell. FFS.


I fundamentally disagree with trading and it can cause potential problems within the team if one player gets paid a fortune more than everyone else, but surely if we could get Cloke without having to pony up draft picks it's a no-brainer.

[Sedat]

We've got as much chance of getting Travis Cloke to the kennel as we have of getting Travis Bickle.

[Raw Toast]

We've got as much chance of getting Travis Cloke to the kennel as we have of getting Travis Bickle.

We might not have the chance, but gee, it's nice to dream of having him. I know lots of people think we're miles from contending, but what would our record for this season be if we had him in the forward line? I think you could make a decent argument that we'd be 5-2 with victories against the Crows and Pies.

Admittedly, this would only have us 7th on the ladder as it currently stands, but ;)

[LostDoggy]

Cloke is a Collingwood kid, isn't he .Even given that loyalty is dead etc etc, its hard to see how or why he would come to us. This is all pie in the sky.

Having said that, he is a huge presence and I'd be happy if we threw any amount of cash and players at him.

[Happy Days]

We've got as much chance of getting Travis Cloke to the kennel as we have of getting Travis Bickle.

We..can...not...touch...him he's under contract no? ;)

Seriously, as if this is even a debate. Cloke is a gun beyond a gun and would make our side so much better, and could play for another 8 years, more than enough time to not suck again. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[1eyedog]

It's more important to be young than good.


Some people are saying they would rather Chris Knights and Jordan Russell. FFS.


I fundamentally disagree with trading and it can cause potential problems within the team if one player gets paid a fortune more than everyone else, but surely if we could get Cloke without having to pony up draft picks it's a no-brainer.

It's only more important to be young than good to young people, and it depends how you define good to the old.

I fundamentally disagree with trading unless it's Travis Cloke, or any other A grade talent we can lure to the club with big bucks:D So it's less about a culture of trading and more about not giving up picks?

What is it you don't like about trading, the culture, jealousy amongst the playing group because the A grader is on big bucks or is it more that you have to give up picks?

Do you think that Melbourne's players are jealous of Clarke and that this is a problem, or do the Freo players resent Ross Lyon? I'm sure Sharrod Wellingham was livid when Luke Ball came over from St. Kilda on 200k more than him. It's all about money and 95% of players know that.

[1eyedog]

Cloke is a Collingwood kid, isn't he .Even given that loyalty is dead etc etc, its hard to see how or why he would come to us. This is all pie in the sky.

Having said that, he is a huge presence and I'd be happy if we threw any amount of cash and players at him.

It sure looks like it.

[Remi Moses]

Two things I like about this is
1) We're hopefully going to swim at the deep end of the pool.
( no Russell's Bates or other small fish)
2) we've got salary cap room for a big fish

[Sockeye Salmon]

It's only more important to be young than good to young people, and it depends how you define good to the old.

I fundamentally disagree with trading unless it's Travis Cloke, or any other A grade talent we can lure to the club with big bucks:D So it's less about a culture of trading and more about not giving up picks?

What is it you don't like about trading, the culture, jealousy amongst the playing group because the A grader is on big bucks or is it more that you have to give up picks?

Do you think that Melbourne's players are jealous of Clarke and that this is a problem, or do the Freo players resent Ross Lyon? I'm sure Sharrod Wellingham was livid when Luke Ball came over from St. Kilda on 200k more than him. It's all about money and 95% of players know that.

My issues with trading are:

How can you ask for and expect loyalty if you are happy to ship off a player when a better offer comes along?

How do you retain players when one player is taking up a disproportional amount of the salary cap (and potentially even ask players to except less than they deserve to stay)

Yes, I could see a Ryan Griffen fielding offers if he was winning B & F's and getting half of what someone else was getting.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's more important to be young than good.


Some people are saying they would rather Chris Knights and Jordan Russell. FFS.

I love how you like to pick and choose words to fit your context. :rolleyes:



but surely if we could get Cloke without having to pony up draft picks it's a no-brainer.

Simplistic way of looking at it.

[BulldogBelle]

Saying we are interested is very different to going through with the deal

Its smart of Jason McCartney to express 'interest' in Travis Cloke

Its also smart of Cloke's father to field offers from other clubs to drive up his sons salary

Hopefully by doing so it will drive up Cloke's asking price at Collingwood up by a few hundred thousand dollars

It may not yield us Travi$ Clok€ but hopefully it will further squeeze Collingwood's salary cap even further, which may preclude a desirable Victorian destination/club from competing with us for another player at the end of the season (eg a younger interstate player who wants to return home or another free agent who may be available)

[LostDoggy]

My issues with trading are:

How can you ask for and expect loyalty if you are happy to ship off a player when a better offer comes along?

How do you retain players when one player is taking up a disproportional amount of the salary cap (and potentially even ask players to except less than they deserve to stay)

Yes, I could see a Ryan Griffen fielding offers if he was winning B & F's and getting half of what someone else was getting.

Trading is a fact of life and any club which turns its back on it, is destined for failure. It is a fundamental avenue of recruiting and we need to be across it in the same way we are with resarching draft opportunities.

[LostDoggy]

It's more important to be young than good.


Some people are saying they would rather Chris Knights and Jordan Russell. FFS.


I fundamentally disagree with trading and it can cause potential problems within the team if one player gets paid a fortune more than everyone else, but surely if we could get Cloke without having to pony up draft picks it's a no-brainer.

There wouldnt even be a trade involved.

All those saying that we need another three years ... timeframe is all off. Firstly, one of the key reasons we would be competitive is Brian Lake. He cant wait another 8 years. If we get a bookend up front to complement Brian down back we would both the best FB and FF in the league. As for rebuilding we have a stack of first and second round picks this year... you can spend too many years trying to pick up early picks, look at melbourne. Lake is a massive reason we would be a premiership chance, we need to maximise our opportunity while he's still playing well.

With Cloke plus development of various young 'uns plus early draft picks this year, we'll be serious challengers in two years, not 4 to 8 years, when GWS and GC will be at their peak.

Having said all that, next to zero chance it'll happen.

[LostDoggy]

Saying we are interested is very different to going through with the deal

Its smart of Jason McCartney to express 'interest' in Travis Cloke

Its also smart of Cloke's father to field offers from other clubs to drive up his sons salary

Hopefully by doing so it will drive up Cloke's asking price at Collingwood up by a few hundred thousand dollars

It may not yield us Travi$ Clok€ but hopefully it will further squeeze Collingwood's salary cap even further, which may preclude a desirable Victorian destination/club from competing with us for another player at the end of the season (eg a younger interstate player who wants to return home or another free agent who may be available)

Jason Cloke's father showed no loyalty to his clubs as a player and will advise his son to act in the same way

A leopard never changes its spots

[1eyedog]

My issues with trading are:

How can you ask for and expect loyalty if you are happy to ship off a player when a better offer comes along?

How do you retain players when one player is taking up a disproportional amount of the salary cap (and potentially even ask players to except less than they deserve to stay)

Yes, I could see a Ryan Griffen fielding offers if he was winning B & F's and getting half of what someone else was getting.

I understand perfectly what you're saying. Personally speaking I know I feel in love with the romance of loyalty at our club in a climate where footballers were loyal, I just missed Dempsey, Round et al. but Kelvin Templeton broke my heart, even though I understood the reasons why he left. If we hadn't had this level of loyalty when I was a kid football would never have held me in the same way it did. I don't know how kids connect with broad scale trading today, there's no substance in it and a real sense of romance with game is lost once broad scale trading happens. This intangible is now lost, but the spectacle (theatre) of the game is what holds audiences now, just as it did in a Roman ampitheatre 2000 years ago. The idea of loyaly lingered far longer in the AFL than almost all other team sporting codes in the world, and this is what made it unique.

The problem with expecting loyalty and accepting trading is that our psychology has caught up with accepting trading as a natural beast in the contemporary AFL climate, but our expectation of loyalty is lagging behind that.

[Twodogs]

Jones and Cordy to get games over the next 2 years.


And imagine how much Jones would improve if he didn't have the two best defenders from the opposition crashing into him at every contest.


I too would like to see how much better Jones/Cordys development would be without them picking up elite defenders every week. With Cloke slotted in alongside them and taking the opposition's best backman it could only help.

[Ghost Dog]

Saying we are interested is very different to going through with the deal

Its smart of Jason McCartney to express 'interest' in Travis Cloke

Its also smart of Cloke's father to field offers from other clubs to drive up his sons salary

Hopefully by doing so it will drive up Cloke's asking price at Collingwood up by a few hundred thousand dollars

It may not yield us Travi$ Clok€ but hopefully it will further squeeze Collingwood's salary cap even further, which may preclude a desirable Victorian destination/club from competing with us for another player at the end of the season (eg a younger interstate player who wants to return home or another free agent who may be available)

So what you are saying is, shake the tree at the top and hope something falls out the bottom :D
It's going to be fun watching all the angst at Collingwod!

[Greystache]

We've ruled ourselves out of the running for Cloke

Article (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/138678/default.aspx)

[chef]

In all seriousness Cloke is never going to leave the Pies.

I'd prefer we stick to the draft and taking kids as we are still a long way off being a challenger again. Rebuild not refresh.

[AndrewP6]

Why does that article mention Cooney et al and then give no further info?

EDIT: Sorry folks, the page on my phone didn't show the video.

[azabob]

Why does that article mention Cooney et al amas then give no further info?

Say what?

There is video / audio and that is where the article gets its info. McCartney elaborates more in the video.

[chef]

Why does that article mention Cooney et al amas then give no further info?

'McCartney also canvassed the form of Adam Cooney, Liam Jones and Luke Dalhaus and offered a candid assessment of where Jarrad Grant is at with his football.'

Did you watch the video?

[Remi Moses]

Cloke isn't going to leave.
Papa Cloke is just playing hardball

[AndrewP6]

Say what?

There is video / audio and that is where the article gets its info. McCartney elaborates more in the video.

Oh. My phone didn't show those other options.

Oops.

[bornadog]

Cloke Means War - Eddie


COLLINGWOOD president Eddie McGuire has vowed to declare "war" on Fremantle if it successfully poaches star Magpie forward Travis Cloke, signalling that the Magpies would target Freo's best youngsters with the "war chest" freed up by Cloke's departure.

Speaking at Collingwood's president's function ahead of its clash against Fremantle at the MCG on Saturday, McGuire said Collingwood's negotiations with Cloke were ongoing.

McGuire also said Collingwood had this week finalised "probably the biggest deal that the football club has ever done" but did not give any further details and indicated the club would not be making any official announcements.

the rest continues here (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/140009/default.aspx)

This is the reaction I want our club to have when we lose good players.

[GVGjr]

This is the reaction I want our club to have when we lose good players.

No good huffing and puffing and sticking the chest out unless you are prepared to back it up. The difference is Eddie's comments are somewhat believable but I think ours would be.

[Ghost Dog]

No good huffing and puffing and sticking the chest out unless you are prepared to back it up. The difference is Eddie's comments are somewhat believable but I think ours would be.

Was very poor of him to discuss contracts on the footy show IMO.

[chef]

Was very poor of him to discuss contracts on the footy show IMO.

Why?

[Ghost Dog]

Why?

Hey everyone! I got offered a million a year by the Dockers. Look at me!
What are his fans supposed to think?

[Remi Moses]

Was very poor of him to discuss contracts on the footy show IMO.

Heard Leigh Matthews backing it up also.
Poor really confirming Freo have offered him over a million a year.
Should have not appeared and then straight batted the question.
Eddie's declared war, but they haven't got salary cap space to manouvere.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Heard Leigh Matthews backing it up also.
Poor really confirming Freo have offered him over a million a year.
Should have not appeared and then straight batted the question.
Eddie's declared war, but they haven't got salary cap space to manouvere.

Eddie clearly doesn't remember when Collingwood went to war with Richmond in the 80's and it just about destroyed them both.

[Remi Moses]

Eddie clearly doesn't remember when Collingwood went to war with Richmond in the 80's and it just about destroyed them both.

Sent both clubs broke with ordinary footballers being overpaid.

[Hotdog60]

Sent both clubs broke with ordinary footballers being overpaid.

Good, let them have at it.:)

[anfo27]

anyone think Carlton could be a suitor for Cloke. They desperately need someone like him down there & with Mick touted as being the coach there next year it would make for an interesting situation.
Eddie declaring war on Carlton would be great to sit back & watch the 2 heavyweights go toe to toe.
I know they have salary cap issues with Judds contract but they could back end Clokes contract & once Judd comes out of contract they might have the room.

[Ghost Dog]

Had to laugh at Cloke playing last night.
And he stank, all night. Every time he shanked it or dropped the pill, you could hear money falling out of the till, and the collective grinding of tens of thousands of feral Magpie supporters. They kept panning to his Dad in the crowd, and the pressure is on!. Suffer in yer jocks!

http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/2_21CoNM12DC0716.jpg

[Mofra]

He is horribly out of form, which is a little ironic considering the Magpies have reportedly put a performance clause in his contract which is the sticking point.

[Sedat]

He is horribly out of form, which is a little ironic considering the Magpies have reportedly put a performance clause in his contract which is the sticking point.
What I'm hearing is that Collingwood are sick and tired of Damir Cloke and his demands and have told him to piss off until the end of the season. They will then work on signing up everyone else (Wellingham, Harry O, etc..) and whatever is left over at the end of the season is what Cloke will be offered. If that's 600-700k a season so be it. The Clokes have played this one out extremely poorly, added to the fact that Cloke couldn't catch a cold right now on the field.

[Maddog37]

He will still be offered buckets of cash elsewhere.

[EasternWest]

Damir Cloke

Very nice Sedat.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Watching the Cloke 'brand' lose currency is somehow enjoying.
Don't know why but it is.
I like the Collingwood angle on this. "ok. we'll keep signing up all the other players who want to stay and whatever's left we'll give to you". Travis Cloke is the worst example of the future of our sport.
Self Centred 'professionals' who 'deserve' to get the best return for their short careers.

Good luck to you playing for GWS or GC or whatever the next GRFLN or HYDRP teams might be.

[GVGjr]

What I'm hearing is that Collingwood are sick and tired of Damir Cloke and his demands and have told him to piss off until the end of the season. They will then work on signing up everyone else (Wellingham, Harry O, etc..) and whatever is left over at the end of the season is what Cloke will be offered. If that's 600-700k a season so be it. The Clokes have played this one out extremely poorly, added to the fact that Cloke couldn't catch a cold right now on the field.


As much as we don't like them they are prepared to make the hard calls. I wonder how many clubs would have suspended Swan?

The Pies made the right call on putting all the discussions with Travis on hold until after the finals.

I wonder if Cloke will end of up Fremantle or Melbourne?

[Maddog37]

Or Richmond or Carlton......

[bulldogsman]

THE PROSPECT of both Mick Malthouse and Travis Cloke being at Carlton next year is growing stronger by the minute.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/145821/default.aspx

[Hotdog60]

THE PROSPECT of both Mick Malthouse and Travis Cloke being at Carlton next year is growing stronger by the minute.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/145821/default.aspx

Saw that, should there be another look into their salary cap.

[LostDoggy]

Saw that, should there be another look into their salary cap.

I thought the salary cap didn't apply to the Carlton Football Club?
Wouldn't matter if they did, all Cloke would have to do is sign a minimum wage contract, then do a Mars or Hyundai commercial for 2-3 million dollars. Simple.

[Mofra]

Not everyone wants him to stay (a couple of weeks old now):


Dear Travis,

I’m going to keep this brief, as wasting any more oxygen, emotion or brain cells on you than I already have will end up the same way as a paedophile attending a Wiggles concert. Not so good.

You have 256 peers that, like you, have played all four matches from rounds fourteen through seventeen. Defenders, midfielders, forwards big and small, first-gamers, mature-aged recruits, players new to the sport from overseas, players returning from injury, players rotated an inordinate amount of times, players that spend a lot less TOG than you, players affected by the red/green vests etc. 256 players. Of that number, you have touched the ball more times in the last month than only 8% of your peers. Eight per-cent. From watching you in the media throughout your career, I understand that maths may not be your strongest suit, hell, anything remotely academic past year eight is probably not your bread and butter, so I’ll try and make things easier for you. Grab eleven mates. Join them and line up against a wall in order of best to worst, from first to twelfth. Currently Travis, you are twelfth, you are the worst.

And it’s not as if the entire 92% above you is made up of your Swans, Abletts, Thompsons, Boyds and Stantons. No, veterans like Carlton’s Matthew Watson (10 games), West Coast’s Jacob Brennan (11), Bulldog Christian Howard (13), Gold Coast’s Charlie Dixon (17) and Port’s Andrew Moore (20) are all getting more of the pill than you. Let’s not even mention the teenagers who have been getting more touches, names like: Greene, Ellis, Hampton, Treloar, Bennell, Caddy, Atley and Dahlhaus.

“It’s not all about possessions”, I hear you plead. OK, I’ll cut you some slack. You’re a key forward, a marking forward, a power forward. You’ve taken fourteen marks (eight contested) in the last month. Again, almost three-quarters of the league have snaffled more marks in that time, so you’ll struggle to hang your hat on any marking-related stat.

Goal-kicking? You’ve kicked six in the last month, at 1.5 per game (down even on your 1.57 career average). But in reality, are you even a goal-kicker? Let’s chew on that for a moment and compare your career stats versus your (positional) peers – key/leading/power/marking forwards in Franklin, Podsiadly, Brown, Pavlich, Riewoldt (x2) and Roughead. Hell, I’ll even throw the tip-rat Milne into the equation, as even he has managed to pants you over 250+ games the little bugger. That’s you against eight others. I’ll highlight a handful of categories with the leading player’s stat, the second-worst (or 8th of 9) stat and yours. Here goes:

Goals Per game:
BEST – Franklin 3.22 from 156 matches.
8th of NINE – Roughead 1.90 from 151 matches.
CLOKE – 1.57 from 165 matches.

Goal-Kicking Accuracy (never mind Out Of Bounds!):
BEST – Milne at 64.3%
8th of NINE – Franklin at 57.6%
CLOKE – 53.4%

Bags of goals (5+):
BEST – Franklin with 43 x 5+ goal matches
8th of NINE – Podsiadly with 11 bags (from only 54 matches)
CLOKE – 9 x 5+ goal matches

Frequency of kicking a bag of 5+ goals:
BEST – Franklin with one 5+ goal haul every 3.6 matches
8th of NINE – Milne at 1 every 14.0 matches
CLOKE – 1 every 18.3 matches.

So it turns out you’re not really a goal-kicker of any note either.

You’re not taking marks, therefore you’re not getting touches and as a result (not surprisingly given your very average career stats) you’re not kicking goals. Yet Daddy thinks you’re worth $1m+ a year? Let’s re-visit the blokes that sat below you in the stats count recently.

There are twenty-two players that have racked up less than your forty-one touches over the last month. Six of these players have been wearers of the green vest in Lovett-Murray and Campbell (3), Young and Newman (2), Patrick and Harper (1), so it would be unfair to bundle these blokes alongside you due to reduced ground time. Jack Darling (9), Lindsay Thomas (9), Ahmed Saad (7) and Robbie Tarrant (6) have kicked as many or more goals than you have, so they get a tick. Nathan Wilson, Sam Day and Jamie Elliott are still teenagers so it would be unfair to judge them harshly at this stage of their careers. Nick Duigan and Paul Puopolo, in only their second seasons, can be excused using a similar judgement. That leaves only seven blokes (of 256) that you can fairly say you are going better than:

Mike Pyke – a Canadian import whose output includes 22+ hit-outs per match
Matthew Lobbe – a 17-game veteran holding his own with 18 hit-outs per match
LRT and Andrejs Everitt – part of a team that’s gone 4-0 in that period
Matthew Warnock (key defender in a side that gets smashed), Jared Rivers and Justin Koschitzke.

Not too many Brownlows, Colemans or All-Australians in that bunch. Just good, honest toilers. Yet I’d hazard a guess that Daddy is trying to get a contract signed that earns you as much as these seven blokes combined. Yes, you’re a massive unit. Yes, you have a tank that allows you to run all day. Yes, you’ve had one good year (hell, so did Allen Jakovich and Adrian McAdam). But what you have allowed to happen by letting Daddy handle your affairs has been sad/comical/farcical to watch unfold.

I hope you kick twelve against GWS and beat up on them like a flat-track bully. I hope that performance will push to one side the on-field petulance you have shown increasingly of late. I hope you finish the year with a Collingwood flag, but will not be holding my breath on the last one. I also hope that your actions (and Daddy's) this year either see you squeezed out of the club, or forced to take 'unders' like the majority of the Collingwood squad already has.

Actually, I'd prefer you to go to Carlton.



Jack

[azabob]

Mofra that is gold!

Where did you find it?

[Mofra]

E-Mail doing the rounds, also on BF

Pretty hard to argue with :D

[bornadog]

Cloke signs with Pies for 5 years.

[Mofra]

Cloke signs with Pies for 5 years.
That puts a few possible moves on the table - Q Lynch to Carlton, Wellingham to anywhere.

[SlimPickens]

Little surprised collingwood buckled and gave him 5. This will put stress on them keeping some of their young guns Wellingham and Goldsack particularly.

[LostDoggy]

Got no time for Goldsack, fumbles a lot imo.

[Remi Moses]

Collingwood buckled.
Totally derailed their whole season