Game Day 2012 - R10 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

[bornadog]

but it really is time to trim the fat and find some speed .

This will take a long time.

[Mantis]

This will take a long time.

It should have started last year.

We needed to add speed at the draft and didn't... Bad move.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm not saying he is. To say he offers nothing, however, I can't agree with. He gets as much of the ball as any other mid apart from Boyd and a bit under a goal a game.

Which players at Williamstown offer more?

Strongly Agree with this post.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm not saying he is. To say he offers nothing, however, I can't agree with. He gets as much of the ball as any other mid apart from Boyd and a bit under a goal a game.

Which players at Williamstown offer more?

But what does he actually do with these possessions? I couldn't give a stuff about the possession statistic, it's critically overrated in an over-possession game anyway.

The opposition sides don't give a stuff about Cooney because they know it is VERY rare he will impact a game. That should tell you all you need to know.

He won't be here in 2 years time IMO.

FWIW I am not angry at Cooney, it's not his fault and I really feel for him given I've had injuries that have also stopped me from playing football for good. It's a tragic story for him and our club.

[FrediKanoute]

Re Cooney, could we move him to the backline and essentially clone him as the next R Murphy/L Gilbee?

[LostDoggy]

Re Cooney, could we move him to the backline and essentially clone him as the next R Murphy/L Gilbee?

It's ridiculous that we can't think of another way to use a player as talented as Cooney. If he plays in the midfield, yes, his lack of pace is sad and makes him limited.

However, a limited Cooney pace-wise is still more talented than 90% of players in the AFL. If Jason Blake, Farran Ray and Josh Hill can still have AFL careers in 2012, a smart coach (and for all his strengths, I really doubt Macca's canniness) will still be able to design a role for a player of Coon's football intelligence.

I've long advocated for a move to the HBF a-la Andrew McLeod, where speed isn't as important as the ability to weave through traffic and set up play with his vision and game reading. Playing behind the ball also allows the game to be in front of him, requires less turning around, and let's him run in straight lines forward. Coons is also a vastly underrated overhead mark.

Perhaps that's not the answer, but playing him out of the middle is certainly the worst possible thing to do to his body, and destroy his confidence while denting the expectations of supporters who will continue to compare him to his previous incarnation. Giving him a new role will at least take away the comparisons.

[LongWait]

If Jason Blake, Farran Ray and Josh Hill can still have AFL careers in 2012, a smart coach (and for all his strengths, I really doubt Macca's canniness) will still be able to design a role for a player of Coon's football intelligence.


Wow. What is your evidence for this statement?

[hujsh]

But what does he actually do with these possessions? I couldn't give a stuff about the possession statistic, it's critically overrated in an over-possession game anyway.

The opposition sides don't give a stuff about Cooney because they know it is VERY rare he will impact a game. That should tell you all you need to know.

He won't be here in 2 years time IMO.

FWIW I am not angry at Cooney, it's not his fault and I really feel for him given I've had injuries that have also stopped me from playing football for good. It's a tragic story for him and our club.

That's fair enough. I agree that possessions as a stat isn't worth much but I certainly would still prefer Cooney with the ball in hand than Boyd or Cross in a majority of circumstances.

For what it's worth Cooney's disposal efficiency is poor at 65% though it's the same as Griffen, Boyd and Dahlhaus' who play in a similar role.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

That's fair enough. I agree that possessions as a stat isn't worth much but I certainly would still prefer Cooney with the ball in hand than Boyd or Cross in a majority of circumstances.

For what it's worth Cooney's disposal efficiency is poor at 65% though it's the same as Griffen, Boyd and Dahlhaus' who play in a similar role.

I am surprised Dahl is at that, but I guess a lot of his kicks can be rushed.

Griffen's disposal has been disappointing for a while, I feel he rarely ever tries to spot up a target. When he does, he genuinely hits it, but he's a huge culprit for just slamming it on the boot as far as he can get it.

I think Lantern's point about a move to the HBF is a great idea for Cooney. Not so long ago, Murphy was really struggling up forward (body wise, like Coons) and he turned his career around as a HBF. It's worth a try because Adam cannot have a meaningful impact in the midfield or up forward.

[Ghost Dog]

But what does he actually do with these possessions? I couldn't give a stuff about the possession statistic, it's critically overrated in an over-possession game anyway.

The opposition sides don't give a stuff about Cooney because they know it is VERY rare he will impact a game. That should tell you all you need to know.

He won't be here in 2 years time IMO.

FWIW I am not angry at Cooney, it's not his fault and I really feel for him given I've had injuries that have also stopped me from playing football for good. It's a tragic story for him and our club.

Just not correct. Not according to McCartney. He'll play a role, and it's disappointing to hear fans write him off. Can you say with any certainty who will be in our list in 2 years time?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Just not correct. Not according to McCartney. He'll play a role, and it's disappointing to hear fans write him off. Can you say with any certainty who will be in our list in 2 years time?

Right.

Go and watch Cooney tapes of 08, and then re-watch his last two seasons.

[Eastdog]

How many more seasons do you guys think Cooney will play from this point on.

[azabob]

How many more seasons do you guys think Cooney will play from this point on.

Do we know when his contract is up?

[Ghost Dog]

Right.

Go and watch Cooney tapes of 08, and then re-watch his last two seasons.

Be realistic about how you judge players or just forget about it. We are talking about Adam Cooney circa 2012 not 2008.

Can offer valuable cover for younger players as they develop and is in our best 22. Deny that if you will.

Brian, Gia, Higgo had a filthy day on Sunday. Why not climb into the attic of negativity, drag out their tapes and add them to your basket of peanuts?

[hujsh]

I think Lantern's point about a move to the HBF is a great idea for Cooney. Not so long ago, Murphy was really struggling up forward (body wise, like Coons) and he turned his career around as a HBF. It's worth a try because Adam cannot have a meaningful impact in the midfield or up forward.

We could also use a bit more run and sure disposal from down back as well, especially when Murphy is struggling like he has been recently. It certainly wouldn't hurt to try and better now than later.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I am surprised Dahl is at that, but I guess a lot of his kicks can be rushed.

Griffen's disposal has been disappointing for a while, I feel he rarely ever tries to spot up a target. When he does, he genuinely hits it, but he's a huge culprit for just slamming it on the boot as far as he can get it.

I think Lantern's point about a move to the HBF is a great idea for Cooney. Not so long ago, Murphy was really struggling up forward (body wise, like Coons) and he turned his career around as a HBF. It's worth a try because Adam cannot have a meaningful impact in the midfield or up forward.

So Boyd at 65% is a ball butcher but Dahlhaus at 65% is 'rushed'?

[Eastdog]

So Boyd at 65% is a ball butcher but Dahlhaus at 65% is 'rushed'?

Dahlhaus brings that excitement factor to our team. He may not be in the best form right now but he is still young and from what I've seen so far he will be a quality player. We should not judge these kids too soon.

[1eyedog]

Be realistic about how you judge players or just forget about it. We are talking about Adam Cooney circa 2012 not 2008.

Can offer valuable cover for younger players as they develop and is in our best 22. Deny that if you will.

Brian, Gia, Higgo had a filthy day on Sunday. Why not climb into the attic of negativity, drag out their tapes and add them to your basket of peanuts?

Because they haven't suffered near career ending injuries which have been the catalyst of a severe slump in what they can or cannot do on the football field.

The names you have presented are either out of form, have never lived up to their potential (or expectations) or are simply becoming to old to play the game.

[jeemak]

Watching Footy Classified right now, and this loss briefly came up in conversation to the extent to which the majority of our good or bad performances do, and I think Gary was hoping to sink the boots in a little.

From what I could gather, he believes we shoud be hurting a little more as a result of the drubbing, and copping a bit more heat as a result of it, from the football public and media I suppose.

I think Wilson or Hudson mentioned in comparison to Neeld, Bmac has had a consistent message and demeanour throughout his press work, which is a contributing factor to us going under the radar.

Within the segment a graphic showing our wins for the year was put up, and I think he was attempting to cheapen our results, while commenting we could have beaten Geelong. It was as if he was trying to say we should be a better team than we are, underperforming, and should be scrutinised as such.

FWIW, apart from the margins against St Kilda and Sydney I think we're probably right about where we should be in terms of results. I think due to our profile, which Lyon stated was disappointingly low considering some of our performances to this point, many in the media are using guesswork to measure us.

It's probably because they can't be bothered watching our games, irrespective of that, I found it to be a bit of a strange spot.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Be realistic about how you judge players or just forget about it. We are talking about Adam Cooney circa 2012 not 2008.

Can offer valuable cover for younger players as they develop and is in our best 22. Deny that if you will.

Brian, Gia, Higgo had a filthy day on Sunday. Why not climb into the attic of negativity, drag out their tapes and add them to your basket of peanuts?

Brian's had a couple of off weeks, but he's still a major component of the side and a quality player. I think it has been well documented that Gia is struggling physically, but his smarts enable him to stay somewhat dangerous for now.

I've voiced my opinion on Higgins. Look for them if need be.

I'm glad you're happy with Cooney and his football, GD. You're about the only one. As I said previously, take notice of the opposition -- do they pay him any attention? Answer is very little and there's reason for that.

I've never said he shouldn't be playing, but the reality is he's really only a good ordinary player now due to his injuries.

Accept it.


We could also use a bit more run and sure disposal from down back as well, especially when Murphy is struggling like he has been recently. It certainly wouldn't hurt to try and better now than later.

Murph is really struggling with a) extra attention and b) playing on some serious quality.

He needs some help, which maybe Cooney could assist with (it's worth trying) or perhaps a stint back up forward as Sheehan suggested tonight on The Couch.

I think we need to try a few things with these two, though.


So Boyd at 65% is a ball butcher but Dahlhaus at 65% is 'rushed'?

Poor choice of words on my behalf.

I think Dahl's last few weeks have been a bit disappointing, so it would be interesting to compare his DE from the first few rounds to his last 3 or 4.

[bornadog]

I think Dahl's last few weeks have been a bit disappointing, so it would be interesting to compare his DE from the first few rounds to his last 3 or 4.

Starting from Round 1, 65%,84, 64, 70, 71, 50, 57, 63,63,50 average 65%

[Ghost Dog]

I've never said he shouldn't be playing, but the reality is he's really only a good ordinary player now due to his injuries.

Accept it


Poor choice of words on my behalf.
.

You said he adds nothing to the side. The only way to paraphrase that is, he shouldn't be in the side. I don't accept it.



I agree with this bit.

[Ghost Dog]

I've never said he shouldn't be playing, but the reality is he's really only a good ordinary player now due to his injuries.

Accept it






You said he adds nothing to the side. The only way to paraphrase that is, he shouldn't be in the side. I don't accept it. Neither does the coaching staff, neither does the club.








Poor choice of words on my behalf.


I agree with this bit.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

You said he adds nothing to the side. The only way to paraphrase that is, he shouldn't be in the side. I don't accept it. Neither does the coaching staff, neither does the club.




I agree with this bit.

I'm glad for you that you will gobble up everything the club will feed you.

Of course we are going to play him -- we have little else -- but his output DOES NOT impact games of football, as evidenced by the severe lack of attention he gets from opposition clubs. This is why Griffen, Dahlhaus and Murphy are copping all the attention.

Also, please learn how to quote/post properly.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Starting from Round 1, 65%,84, 64, 70, 71, 50, 57, 63,63,50 average 65%

I think this probably highlights what I was thinking, in that since he's received close attention from opposition, he's finding it harder to gain space. His disposal seems to be pretty rushed lately, so it's a bit of a byproduct of the added attention.

Hopefully he can consistently lift it to back up to 70%+.

[bornadog]

I think this probably highlights what I was thinking, in that since he's received close attention from opposition, he's finding it harder to gain space. His disposal seems to be pretty rushed lately, so it's a bit of a byproduct of the added attention.

Hopefully he can consistently lift it to back up to 70%+.

I am not too worried about those figures, he will hopefully learn with experience.

[Maddog37]

Cooney needs to be a role player and not the star of the show. All we need to do is find the right role for him. Easier said than done but doable none the less.

[Mantis]

Cooney needs to be a role player and not the star of the show. All we need to do is find the right role for him. Easier said than done but doable none the less.

But aren't they trying to find a role for him?

It's just that we already have quite a few so-so flanker/ pocket types and this is the bracket that Adam fits into at present... and I can't see his body allowing him to be anything more.

[Ghost Dog]

But aren't they trying to find a role for him?

It's just that we already have quite a few so-so flanker/ pocket types and this is the bracket that Adam fits into at present... and I can't see his body allowing him to be anything more.

Strong, smart, tall, team focused. Plenty to offer. Make a prediction that Adam will actually provide good service to the club this season, despite his knee issue, and surprise many.

On another note, Seems the young lad Matty Boyd crunched in the swans game had his collar bone broken in three places. Was a textbook bump. Too bad for the kid.

[Mantis]

Strong, smart, tall, team focused. Plenty to offer. Make a prediction that Adam will actually provide good service to the club this season, despite his knee issue, and surprise many.



So what role is he playing/ going to play?

At present he is floating around and not offering too much at all.

[stefoid]

So Boyd at 65% is a ball butcher but Dahlhaus at 65% is 'rushed'?

Dal is getting tagged though.