Match Committee- Round 12 vs Port Adelaide

[Greystache]

If you were on the match committee what changes would you make for the game against Port Adelaide at Etihad Stadium in 2 weeks time, baring in mind we have the bye next week?

A brief explanation for your changes as always would be good.

[Greystache]

How many changes can one team make?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Hmm, given how we played this week, I'm even concerned with how many changes we need to make to ensure we don't lose against the bye, let alone Port!

[GVGjr]

How many changes can one team make?

We don't have a lot of players knocking the door down plus we don't know the injury status
of guys like Grant and DJ. Difficult decisions to make especially with a bye next week.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

You can't really make wholesale changes when the entire side plays so poorly. The break takes some of the 'edge' off it, too.

Hard to say who will return but I would think we'd see around 3 changes.

[Greystache]

I'll give it a crack,

In- Panos, Smith
Out- Roughead, Pearce

Time to see if Panos can offer anything going forward, plus we desperately need someone who can convert. Smith was good for Willi this week and deserves a call up, he actually would have been well suited this week.

Cordy can play forward/2nd ruck in place of Roughead, so Panos can play deep forward. I'd like to see Vez forward as well and see if Higgins can offer us anything in defence.

[GVGjr]

I'd look to bring Howard into the side to replace Pearce and I agree that Veszpremi could move forward.
Grant has to come back into the side so that means we need to lose either Cordy or Roughead. At this stage I'd drop Roughead.

Skinner isn't ready. Will Wood be better for the run?

[bornadog]

I'd look to bring Howard into the side to replace Pearce and I agree that Veszpremi could move forward.
Grant has to come back into the side so that means we need to lose either Cordy or Roughead. At this stage I'd drop Roughead.

Skinner isn't ready. Will Wood be better for the run?

I hope Wood didn't tweak his hammy chasing Jetta.

We need to start seriously looking at the team and the future. We are getting no run from the backline with Murphy having to play too defensively every week and he is not in good form.

My changes based on if players are available:

In: Grant, Howard,

Out: Pearce, Gia

Libba had a shocker but not sure if he will be dropped. If he is, then Smith comes in.

[GVGjr]

I hope Wood didn't tweak his hammy chasing Jetta.

We need to start seriously looking at the team and the future. We are getting no run from the backline with Murphy having to play too defensively every week and he is not in good form.

My changes based on if players are available:

In: Grant, Howard,

Out: Pearce, Gia

Libba had a shocker but not sure if he will be dropped. If he is, then Smith comes in.

You still want the three ruckman?

I agree we can't (shouldn't) drop Liberatore.

[Mantis]

Its hard to know what the MC will do after such a shocking performance..... I had hoped we had moved past these after the St.Kilda game, but obviously we haven't.

For me I think one of Higgins, Gia & Dickson have to go, maybe 2.... Too alike and aren't performing consistently enough.

Pearce goes, and one of the young tall fowards too.

All of Grant, Jones, Sherman and Howard would be up the front of the list for my likely ins.

[neddie]

I hope Wood didn't tweak his hammy chasing Jetta.

We need to start seriously looking at the team and the future. We are getting no run from the backline with Murphy having to play too defensively every week and he is not in good form.

My changes based on if players are available:

In: Grant, Howard,

Out: Pearce, Gia

Libba had a shocker but not sure if he will be dropped. If he is, then Smith comes in.

Wood was kneed in the back and as a result was subbed off .

[LostDoggy]

I'd like to see a bit more pace in the side. Sherman and/or DJ at the expense of a tall.

[GVGjr]

Its hard to know what the MC will do after such a shocking performance..... I had hoped we had moved past these after the St.Kilda game, but obviously we haven't.

For me I think one of Higgins, Gia & Dickson have to go, maybe 2.... Too alike and aren't performing consistently enough.

Pearce goes, and one of the young tall fowards too.

All of Grant, Jones, Sherman and Howard would be up the front of the list for my likely ins.

Good suggestions, we just don't have a lot knocking the door down for selections at the moment.

[Maddog37]

Would we look better with Vez and Tory up front or Gia and Higgins?

[Evel]

Would we look better with Vez and Tory up front or Gia and Higgins?

If one had to go I would like to see Dickson stay in. He has shown he can take a contested mark when body on body and leads to the ball. Higgins and Gia seem to play from behind these days when played forward and try work their opponents under the ball.

[The Underdog]

Would we look better with Vez and Tory up front or Gia and Higgins?

Dickson didn't have much impact today. Vez at least looked like a forward but I get the feeling the MC don't have a great deal of faith in him. Gia was inexplicably awful and his chasing efforts were deplorable. It was the first time I'd really thought he looked past it. I'm not sure where Higgins fits at this point. He seems to be less than the sum of his parts.
I think if fit Grant needs to be in there. We're in the unfortunate position of needing to get games into Cordy, Jones, Grant and Roughead and not being able to play them all together for balance.

I'd definitely look at getting Howard in for Pearce. Grant to come in if he's ready. Probably for Dickson.

[FrediKanoute]

Out: - Gia - experienced player who didn't have any impact today. To me he, Dickson and Higgins offer much of the same. 3 in the one side?

- Pearce - not quite ready.

In: - Grant - if fit he should come in. Offers something different.

- Howard/Panos/DJ - all worth a chance

[Remi Moses]

Hmm, given how we played this week, I'm even concerned with how many changes we need to make to ensure we don't lose against the bye, let alone Port!

If we don't stick to our structures the bye will get us.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure what the Selectors are thinking. Jones plays his best game of the year and out he goes?

Higgins has to go. He simply can't get away with constantly playing from behind.

[Mofra]

For me I think one of Higgins, Gia & Dickson have to go, maybe 2.... Too alike and aren't performing consistently enough.
It's very hard to have both Gia & Higgins playing in the forwardline - both fairly slow, who get by on smarts. Higgins has outperformed Gia this year, the Sydney game showed a stark difference bewteen the two.

[Mantis]

It's very hard to have both Gia & Higgins playing in the forwardline - both fairly slow, who get by on smarts. Higgins has outperformed Gia this year, the Sydney game showed a stark difference bewteen the two.

Yep.

I thought Gia struggled too against Geelong, but ended with 3 goals, gained mainly by his smarts. His ability to influence a contest and apply pressure is very poor.

Can't believe we gave him a 2yr contract last year.

[Ozza]

Yep.

I thought Gia struggled too against Geelong, but ended with 3 goals, gained mainly by his smarts. His ability to influence a contest and apply pressure is very poor.

Can't believe we gave him a 2yr contract last year.

Yeah, he's definitely just getting by on smarts this year. Easy to say in hindsight, I know, but a wet day at the SCG, against a quick running backline like Sydney's - he really shouldn't be playing.

I think the coaches should be considering being selective on when he plays.

[Desipura]

Yep.

I thought Gia struggled too against Geelong, but ended with 3 goals, gained mainly by his smarts. His ability to influence a contest and apply pressure is very poor.

Can't believe we gave him a 2yr contract last year.
So we have not learnt from previous mistakes?

[G-Mo77]

Yep.

I thought Gia struggled too against Geelong, but ended with 3 goals, gained mainly by his smarts. His ability to influence a contest and apply pressure is very poor.

Can't believe we gave him a 2yr contract last year.

Who do you put in his place? I still think he is one of our better if not best option up forward. He's usually pretty reliable for a couple of goals and some assists. In a weak forward line he's pretty valuable. Unless there is some sort of shuffle from the current team we have no one who could play that role from the VFL.

[Mofra]

Who do you put in his place? I still think he is one of our better if not best option up forward. He's usually pretty reliable for a couple of goals and some assists. In a weak forward line he's pretty valuable. Unless there is some sort of shuffle from the current team we have no one who could play that role from the VFL.
Higgins is playing that role, and Dickson is playing in a similar fashion as others have mentioned.

The question isn't who plays that role, the question is how many play that role - for mine, the answer is 1 or 2, not 2 or 3.

For mine, Grant plays a crumbing role, DJ comes back (although he sometimes has handling issues) or Dahlhaus plays closer to the goal-line. Heck, I'd have DJ in push up then push Dahl closer to goal as a first option.

Ayce brings the ball to ground well and is presenting enough for us to kick it to him constantly, and his efforts to chase for a 203cm player are very good.
Another crumbing quick would help us no end.

[stefoid]

Can someone tell me what has become of Grant and Cambell - they arent listed as injured but they havent been playing for the gulls either?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

McCartney seems to really like Higgins, so I am not sure he will be in the gun -- but he should be. As a poster above said, he plays from behind almost on every occasion. It's so frustrating to watch because he doesn't have any kind of pace to make up the distance either.

He's been able to finish a few in recent weeks but aside from that he has been pretty lacklustre.

[G-Mo77]

Good points Mofra. I don't disagree entirely about this particular subject either, just wanted some thoughts on it. Maybe there isn't room for all 3 in the forward half. I see Gia and Dickson as forward only options but Higgins can be played across the HB line IMO.

[LostDoggy]

I'd make none. Dropping 10 players isn't going to solve our forward woes, or the issues with intensity and form. I'd play every single one of them again, give them nowhere to hide.

Besides, I'm a little sick of the “Bring in Panos!” hysterics. If he warranted a spot he should have it by now.

[G-Mo77]

Besides, I'm a little sick of the “Bring in Panos!” hysterics. If he warranted a spot he should have it by now.

Can I change Panos to Grant then?

He's one definite change I would make if available.

[Mofra]

Besides, I'm a little sick of the “Bring in Panos!” hysterics. If he warranted a spot he should have it by now.
Ditto - he is a good kick of the football but I haven't seen much to suggest he'll get it very much at AFL level.

[bulldogsman]

What's everyones thoughts on Moles? If he has another good game on the weekend, I think he deserves another crack.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What's everyones thoughts on Moles? If he has another good game on the weekend, I think he deserves another crack.

I seem to go on record for saying that I rate him, but he's fallen off the radar. He did, however, have a big second half in the Williamstown game last week.

The game kind of emphasized why he's a frustrating player. He was really sloppy at times, but after he KO'd that big bloke, he went on to have a ripping game.

He's what we need, but effort seems inconsistent and he struggles to find enough of the ball at AFL level. If he puts in another good performance, he'd have to be close though.

[LostDoggy]

Out: Higgs boson(as yet unsighted) or Gia, Pearce

In: Sherman or Grant or DJ or Howard

Maybe some rotation policy between Cordy, Rough and Jones should be put in place.
Grant shouldn't be considered a tall.

[Mofra]

What's everyones thoughts on Moles? If he has another good game on the weekend, I think he deserves another crack.
I think he plays like and AFL player for up to 3/4s then plays like a VFL player for 1/4+.
We may use him this year because he does provide some run, yet is not too outside for B-Mac to shun him.

[DOG GOD]

No way Gia will get dropped...too much of a love child...only way he's out of the team is if he's injured...won't ever get dropped regarding form.

[LostDoggy]

Yep.

I thought Gia struggled too against Geelong, but ended with 3 goals, gained mainly by his smarts. His ability to influence a contest and apply pressure is very poor.

Can't believe we gave him a 2yr contract last year.

I have always stood up for Gia, I really believe he has been underrated in what he has done the last few years by not only other clubs supporters, but also some of most passionate and loyal fans.

Just last year Gia was copping alot of flack, but when you look at his stats for last year compared to Milne who made the All Australian Team.
Gia 45 Goals (2.3 Ave) Milne 56 Goals (2.4 Ave), Gia Ave Dispoals 18.2 Milne 14.4, both had 20 goal assists. Gia played 3 less games.
Not saying he deserved a spot over Milne in the side, however he should have atleast been in the top 40.

Given this form i'm not at all suprised he recieved a 2 year deal last year. Truth be told he probably deserved it.

Onto this year however, boy has he really gone downhill. He is officially cooked. Stick a fork in him, he's done.
I can no longer defend him. If he doesn't mark the ball in a contest then it's all over. Given our inability to look where we are kicking into the forward 50, he has no hope.

I also notice he seems to be sucking in the big ones basically half way through the first quarter. Then for the remainder of the match after any contest. He's fitness during pre season was still pretty good i thought? Perhaps he's carrying some sort of injury.

Injury or no injury, he shouldn't be playing.

[Ghost Dog]

I have always stood up for Gia, I really believe he has been underrated in what he has done the last few years by not only other clubs supporters, but also some of most passionate and loyal fans.

Injury or no injury, he shouldn't be playing.

He played well against Collingwood. Gave Harry O a few grey hairs in that black mop of his. However, watching him jog well behind flying swans last week made for bitter viewing.

[Mantis]

I have always stood up for Gia, I really believe he has been underrated in what he has done the last few years by not only other clubs supporters, but also some of most passionate and loyal fans.

Just last year Gia was copping alot of flack, but when you look at his stats for last year compared to Milne who made the All Australian Team.
Gia 45 Goals (2.3 Ave) Milne 56 Goals (2.4 Ave), Gia Ave Dispoals 18.2 Milne 14.4, both had 20 goal assists. Gia played 3 less games. Not saying he deserved a spot over Milne in the side, however he should have atleast been in the top 40.

Given this form i'm not at all suprised he recieved a 2 year deal last year. Truth be told he probably deserved it.

Onto this year however, boy has he really gone downhill. He is officially cooked. Stick a fork in him, he's done.
I can no longer defend him. If he doesn't mark the ball in a contest then it's all over. Given our inability to look where we are kicking into the forward 50, he has no hope.

I also notice he seems to be sucking in the big ones basically half way through the first quarter. Then for the remainder of the match after any contest. He's fitness during pre season was still pretty good i thought? Perhaps he's carrying some sort of injury.

Injury or no injury, he shouldn't be playing.

On form he did deserve a 2yr extension, but at 28 or 29 and with his physical make-up we had to go conservative and give him a 1yr deal with the option of another year if he met some key criteria.

There was talk that we had initially offered a 1yr deal, but we didn't close out the deal and are now in the position where we have to nurse him through for another 18 months.

Another case of poor list management.

[Desipura]

On form he did deserve a 2yr extension, but at 28 or 29 and with his physical make-up we had to go conservative and give him a 1yr deal with the option of another year if he met some key criteria.

There was talk that we had initially offered a 1yr deal, but we didn't close out the deal and are now in the position where we have to nurse him through for another 18 months.

Another case of poor list management.
Well I saw this being an issue before we signed him (mentioned it at the time), surely those in the know could see the writing on the wall?
Its not as if clubs were lining up to sign him up?

[JohnGentStand]

Ins - Grant , Sherman , Moles

Outs - Pierce , Gia , Libba

- all form based selections, Grant aside ( not sure why he is out ?)
It's the 1st time I have ever called for the axe on Gia, but it is deserved.
I would love to elevate Jones, but boy he was average for Willy. Redpath showed plenty more.
I think we can cover the ground a lot better with these inclusions and still be good inside.
Smith an option also for Moles but he kicks 9 irons.

[Sedat]

Ins - Grant , Sherman , Moles

Outs - Pierce , Gia , Libba

Libba out on form? Are you kidding? He was one of our best against Geelong (I actually voted for him as BOG in the Marmo) and has been in very good form the month prior after a slowish start in the first couple of weeks. He was poor on Sunday but he had about 20 mates.

[JohnGentStand]

Libba was uber poor against Sydney. He looked like a boy who needs a rest. If we are a young list then form should dictate selection. Dahlhouse looked tired also, but gave a tad more than Tom.

[Sedat]

Libba was uber poor against Sydney. He looked like a boy who needs a rest. If we are a young list then form should dictate selection. Dahlhouse looked tired also, but gave a tad more than Tom.
He was rested/injured for the Melbourne game and then came back as the sub against GWS and played less than half that game. He doesn't need another rest, and he'll be getting one with the bye in any event.

Even though he was poor on Sunday, he still extracted some quality clearances by hand in the 2nd half - I much prefer these clearances than the 'throw it on the boot and make it someone else's problem' style preferred by pretty much everyone else in our midfield on Sunday.

[hujsh]

Libba was uber poor against Sydney. He looked like a boy who needs a rest. If we are a young list then form should dictate selection. Dahlhouse looked tired also, but gave a tad more than Tom.

Would the bye not suffice as a rest?

[Sockeye Salmon]

I did hear that the 2nd year was on bargain basement rates

[azabob]

I did hear that the 2nd year was on bargain basement rates

Gia? - GVGjr said something similar.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

The split round has come at a perfect time for us and the rest will slot in beautifully.

The outs for me this week would be Higgins and Gia. I would send a message that if you go to ground your going to Willie.

If I was coaching I would announce these now and then have a look at Willie on the weekend and see who really puts their hand up to play. I know we got smashed but a few changes are better then wholesale changes for me.

[Rocco Jones]

Gia and Higgins just won't be dropped.

Pearce and Roughy should go out before them anyway. I would bring in Howard and Jones. I know Howard wasn't great for Willy but the conditions really didn't suit and I think he kept on having a dip. We desperately need to improve our foot skills too.

The last selection is harder. I know Gia and Higgins don't look great but neither does Dickson. At least one really should do. I am definitely not a fan of Higgins but I think his ability to go back gives him a bit more versatility. Gia at least shows an ability to nab a couple of goals in the pristine conditions at ES. Dickson has more pace them the pair and applies more defensive pressure but outside of his cracking 1st half vs North, he has done very little.

Thing is, even if we are clear on who to drop, who do we bring in?

Grant would be ideal but he has seemingly dropped off the face of the earth. Even if he is back, that's 3 weeks without match practice. That's a bit much for a fringe player without going back to Willy first.

Smith could come in as a sub or spend more time up forward but it seems like he suffered a pretty bad concussion on Saturday. Is it worth not taking the opportunity to rest a first-year rookie from that. We are also very top heavy for his type, only thing we have really.

I didn't want Sherman out of the side as we really need his type but if we dropped him for onfield attitude issues or the like, how can we bring him in after two sub-par performances for Willy?

I guess we might just have to play Dickson!

[Ghost Dog]

Good suggestions, we just don't have a lot knocking the door down for selections at the moment.

Liam Jones looked very good against Box Hill. What do you think?
We need players who can be moved around the ground a bit more and multi-task. For this reason I like Fletcher Roberts. Looks good down back and has a history of forward line performance. I'd be keen to give him a crack.



That's also why I would keep Roughead in. Can ruck, play forward or back.

In: Jones, Roberts
Out: Dickson, Pearce.

[Remi Moses]

In- Howard, Jones ( bit retro, what happened to Howard Jones?)
Out- Pearce and either Ayce or Roughy.
Think Roberts isn't to far off getting a crack

[AndrewP6]

In- Howard, Jones ( bit retro, what happened to Howard Jones?)
Out- Pearce and either Ayce or Roughy.
Think Roberts isn't to far off getting a crack

He's on tour!

http://www.howardjones.com/

[Remi Moses]

Yep.

I thought Gia struggled too against Geelong, but ended with 3 goals, gained mainly by his smarts. His ability to influence a contest and apply pressure is very poor.

Can't believe we gave him a 2yr contract last year.

Agree, his efforts this year have been poor.
But he deserved a 2 year on his form of last season, having said that on bargain basement contract he'll be gone at years end

[Remi Moses]

He's on tour!

http://www.howardjones.com/

Caught him on Rage Countdown retro during the summer.Gee he was massive in 84 85

[Desipura]

Caught him on Rage Countdown retro during the summer.Gee he was massive in 84 85
In the Wa Wa nee era.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Liam Jones looked very good against Box Hill. What do you think?
We need players who can be moved around the ground a bit more and multi-task. For this reason I like Fletcher Roberts. Looks good down back and has a history of forward line performance. I'd be keen to give him a crack.



That's also why I would keep Roughead in. Can ruck, play forward or back.

In: Jones, Roberts
Out: Dickson, Pearce.

I really like Roberts and West-thingy (what's his name?) would be a good matchup. While I would love to give him a go , it would probably mean Austin would have to be left out.

[Rocco Jones]

I really like Roberts and West-thingy (what's his name?) would be a good matchup. While I would love to give him a go , it would probably mean Austin would have to be left out.

I like Roberts too but as you mention we have Austin. Shaggy has a good record on Westhoff (maybe I am just remembering one game where he ripped him apart!).

[Greystache]

I like Roberts too but as you mention we have Austin. Shaggy has a good record on Westhoff (maybe I am just remembering one game where he ripped him apart!).

I'm with you. I think Roberts is having a good season and looks a likely player, but I don't think we need to rush him in this year. Maybe give him a taste towards the end of the season, but next year with a full preseason I think he can push for games. He seems to have a frame you can really build on, in a couple of years time he could be a monster.

There was actually people criticising his selection because he was too skinny, you have to wonder where that sort of garbage comes from sometimes.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm with you. I think Roberts is having a good season and looks a likely player, but I don't think we need to rush him in this year. Maybe give him a taste towards the end of the season, but next year with a full preseason I think he can push for games. He seems to have a frame you can really build on, in a couple of years time he could be a monster.

There was actually people criticising his selection because he was too skinny, you have to wonder where that sort of garbage comes from sometimes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbSSekMu-CQ

Check this out. It's a 2011 video. How different he looks already. Loves a goal. Do we always have to play blokes out of position?

[GVGjr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbSSekMu-CQ

Check this out. It's a 2011 video. How different he looks already. Loves a goal. Do we always have to play blokes out of position?

Do you think he cares?

We drafted him specifically with the view of developing him as a defender and from the few times I saw him play my question marks on him were around if he wasn't good enough on the lead to become an AFL forward. At 193cm IMO he wasn't going to be able to take those type of marks in the clip you added at the senior level.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm with you. I think Roberts is having a good season and looks a likely player, but I don't think we need to rush him in this year. Maybe give him a taste towards the end of the season, but next year with a full preseason I think he can push for games. He seems to have a frame you can really build on, in a couple of years time he could be a monster.

There was actually people criticising his selection because he was too skinny, you have to wonder where that sort of garbage comes from sometimes.

I liked the selection but I remember commenting on how skinny he was. I certainly didn't expect him to be in contention for a senior game this year.

[Ghost Dog]

Do you think he cares?

We drafted him specifically with the view of developing him as a defender and from the few times I saw him play my question marks on him were around if he wasn't good enough on the lead to become an AFL forward. At 193cm IMO he wasn't going to be able to take those type of marks in the clip you added at the senior level.

Quiz questions (drumroll )

How tall are the current AFL forwards.

1.Le Cras?
2.Gia?
3.Higgins?
4. Josh Hill?

Answers
1. 185
2.182
3. 184
4. 186

How can you say players don't care where they play? Of course they won't say it, but everyone has a preferred position on field.

[GVGjr]

Quiz questions (drumroll )

How tall are the current AFL forwards.

1.Le Cras?
2.Gia?
3.Higgins?
4. Josh Hill?

Answers
1. 185
2.182
3. 184
4. 186

How can you say players don't care where they play? Of course they won't say it, but everyone has a preferred position on field.

And listing some other players heights is the response to what I have written? I don't see the relevance. I said Roberts wasn't going to be able to take the type of marks he did in the clip that you added and you have hardly changed my view of that. He needs to be able to take some marks on a lead and he won't be able to consistently just pluck some marks over the top of AFL senior players like he was in that YT clip.

If it wasn't for Schofield leaving us Roberts was going to be a rookie player so we took him in the pre-season draft because we had one additional spot to fill He would be as happy as he could just to make the senior list and he wouldn't care less where he gets his first senior game. No I don't think he would care where he is being played. After he has played 40 or 50 games he might start to want to be played in a specific position but at the moment it's all about getting a game or two anywhere he can be fitted in.

[Ghost Dog]

And listing some other players heights is the response to what I have written? I don't see the relevance. I said Roberts wasn't going to be able to take the type of marks he did in the clip that you added and you have hardly changed my view of that. He needs to be able to take some marks on a lead and he won't be able to consistently just pluck some marks over the top of AFL senior players like he was in that YT clip.

If it wasn't for Schofield leaving us Roberts was going to be a rookie player so we took him in the pre-season draft because we had one additional spot to fill He would be as happy as he could just to make the senior list and he wouldn't care less where he gets his first senior game. No I don't think he would care where he is being played. After he has played 40 or 50 games he might start to want to be played in a specific position but at the moment it's all about getting a game or two anywhere he can be fitted in.

It was said that he was too short to take grabs above the head so yes, the height of above players disproves that. Just disagree. Take the Melbourne Collingwood game yesterday. Lots of players that short or shorter taking high grabs across the ground. A hunch and that only; the handfull of games played show a young bloke with a good footy brain, speed great balance,poise, nice kicking action both sides and has put on good weight in the last 12 months. Then also, something else yet that's hard to define.

Listening to where players enjoy playing is good coaching. will be an excellent backman as well; Good place to cut his teeth. Our ability to score, on the other hand, haunts us.

[GVGjr]

It was said that he was too short to take grabs above the head so yes, the height of above players disproves that. Just disagree. Take the Melbourne Collingwood game yesterday. Lots of players that short or shorter taking high grabs across the ground. A hunch and that only; the handfull of games played show a young bloke with a good footy brain, speed great balance,poise, nice kicking action both sides and has put on good weight in the last 12 months. Then also, something else yet that's hard to define.

Listening to where players enjoy playing is good coaching. will be an excellent backman as well; Good place to cut his teeth. Our ability to score, on the other hand, haunts us.

You seem to create arguments to suit your views but I think they are just urguments not fact based at all. I never said that he was too short to take marks, that's how you obviously chose to read it to suit your argument, what I said was the he was too short to consistently take the type of marks at the senior level the YT clip highlighted by playing from behind.
He isn't the most athletic of guys either and his Draft Combine results support that. Again that is fact based.

He's a good young prospect and learning how to play football in a variety of positions should be seen as a positive but while you want everything written about the players by everyone here to be ultra positive some of us are also capable of acknowledging flaws in players game in a non negative manner.

[Ghost Dog]

You seem to create arguments to suit your views but I think they are just urguments not fact based at all. I never said that he was too short to take marks, that's how you obviously chose to read it to suit your argument, what I said was the he was too short to consistently take the type of marks at the senior level the YT clip highlighted by playing from behind.
He isn't the most athletic of guys either and his Draft Combine results support that. Again that is fact based.

He's a good young prospect and learning how to play football in a variety of positions should be seen as a positive but while you want everything written about the players by everyone here to be ultra positive some of us are also capable of acknowledging flaws in players game in a non negative manner.

I think this part is a bit unfair and now you are playing the man.
I didn't say it to suit my argument. You said he was too short to take 'those' sort of marks in the video. Which I don't think is true. I'm talking about his ability to read the ball and kick goals. His tank will come in time.
Am I not allowed to express a view?
I think the second part here is also not correct as I have criticized aspects of players games in the past. See my views on Hill, Higgins, Gia, and others.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I think this part is a bit unfair and now you are playing the man.
I didn't say it to suit my argument. You said he was too short to take 'those' sort of marks in the video. Which I don't think is true. I'm talking about his ability to read the ball and kick goals. His tank will come in time.
Am I not allowed to express a view?
I think the second part here is also not correct as I have criticized aspects of players games in the past. See my views on Hill, Higgins, Gia, and others.

OK, GD. Time to put up.

We have activated the Reid compo pick so we intend to use at least 5 draft picks (possibly even 6 if Hunter is rated 4th round).

Jong, Johannesen, Campbell and Austin are all upgrade possibilities.


How many do you upgrade and who gets delisted?

[Ghost Dog]

OK, GD. Time to put up.

We have activated the Reid compo pick so we intend to use at least 5 draft picks (possibly even 6 if Hunter is rated 4th round).

Jong, Johannesen, Campbell and Austin are all upgrade possibilities.


How many do you upgrade and who gets delisted?

I'm on to it. Give me a sec to get back to you on that one.

Wouldn't be surprised if Jong gets upgraded as he has the 'hard at it' ethos the coach loves. But his decision making needs so much work I can't see him making it. So far I've seen one of his games at a ground and two on TV.

[azabob]

We have activated the Reid compo pick so we intend to use at least 5 draft picks (possibly even 6 if Hunter is rated 4th round).

Jong, Johannesen, Campbell and Austin are all upgrade possibilities.


How many do you upgrade and who gets delisted?

5 selections. That is a lot considering we have quite a few very early on.

We have two first round picks, a second round pick, and the Ried pick which is either a 2nd or 3rd round, I can't recall. Again all this depends on how the rookies on players on the cusp of being delisted perform for the remainder of the season.

Either way none of the players above are worthy of a first, second or third round pick especially considering our current ladder position. (Which may or may not improve)

The more I think about it, we will be active in the trade period either in the "under 17's draft mini draft" or a ready made player.

[soupman]

The more I think about it, we will be active in the trade period either in the "under 17's draft mini draft" or a ready made player.

This is actually a very good point and one I haven't seen discussed here much. Could we make a play for one of the 17 year olds available? Who are they and is this our chance to secure a gun player, and also saves his spot for next season.

Also are GWS allowed to pre-list and then trade mature agers again this season?

[azabob]

This is actually a very good point and one I haven't seen discussed here much. Could we make a play for one of the 17 year olds available? Who are they and is this our chance to secure a gun player, and also saves his spot for next season.

Also are GWS allowed to pre-list and then trade mature agers again this season?

On the 17 year olds not sure who they are, I do know like last year there is only 2 available.

[GVGjr]

I think this part is a bit unfair and now you are playing the man.
I didn't say it to suit my argument. You said he was too short to take 'those' sort of marks in the video. Which I don't think is true. I'm talking about his ability to read the ball and kick goals. His tank will come in time.
Am I not allowed to express a view?
I think the second part here is also not correct as I have criticized aspects of players games in the past. See my views on Hill, Higgins, Gia, and others.

Roberts was simply too tall for his opponents on the YT clip you added. He plucked the marks from behind with little to no body contact on him which of course won't happen at the senior level and by the way this is not an issue about his tank.
I don't know of many AFL forwards who can consistently kick goals by playing from behind. Most get there by wrestling their way to the front of their opponent or by beating them on the lead. These are simply not traits that Roberts exhibited as a forward in the junior level. The answer the club decided to explore is to use him as a defender where he will simply have to learn to get in front and be prepared to wrestle with his opponents or run the risk of having multiple goals kicked on him. I think the club has done a good job at developing him.

As for the accusations of me playing the man not the ball and if you are not allowed to express a view to me you couldn't be further off the mark.

[GVGjr]

How can you say players don't care where they play? Of course they won't say it, but everyone has a preferred position on field.

Just on this point, I was a player sponsor of Callan Ward for four years and we used to have some good conversations especially at the players sponsors night. I never once got the impression from him that he was telling me anything other than the truth.

Year 1) Ward had been displaying some good form for Williamstown but hadn't made his debut. On the night (Bornadog can confirm) we talked about him making his senior debut.
My question about where he might play received a typically succinct response, "I don't care they can play me anywhere because I just want to play"

Year 2) Ward was going through a bit of a bad patch and was struggling to hold his spot where I posed a similar question to the previous year "Where do you think you might perform best?" His response was something along the lines of "I'm not sure, wherever they need me" I added a suggestion that players struggling with some form can sometimes run themselves back into it by being played as a defender and having just one opponent to beat. He was very open to that suggestion in fact he mentioned how much he enjoyed playing in the back half as a junior for the Jets. Again he just wanted to play and didn't really care where.

Year 3) Ward was now a regular player and gaining some confidence and thought his best position was in the midfield.

I rate Ward as a typical youngster who from year one would have done anything he was asked to by the coach and it wasn't until his 3rd year he felt confident that he could put his hand up for specific roles within the side.

I see no reason to think Roberts has a preference to play in any position until he establishes himself as a senior footballer within the side. The vast majority of youngsters just want to play and don't care where the coach plays them.

[Ghost Dog]

Just on this point, I was a player sponsor of Callan Ward for four years and we used to have some good conversations especially at the players sponsors night. I never once got the impression from him that he was telling me anything other than the truth.
.

That's a good story and thanks for that. Different players say different things I guess, and he was always going to be a midfielder at the end of the day. But as you hint at, the best thing is to have multi position, unselfish players in the modern game.

[SlimPickens]

Ok my selections for this weeks game

In: Jones- Performance at Willy warrants selection and our best option at CHF IMO.
DJ- Forward pressure has been missed.

Out: Pearce
Roughead- Team balance

[azabob]

Ok my selections for this weeks game

In: Jones- Performance at Willy warrants selection and our best option at CHF IMO.
DJ- Forward pressure has been missed.

Out: Zephi- Can't see what he offers ATM
Roughead- Team balance

Slim, Skinner was a late withdrawal against the swans.

[SonofScray]

I rate Ward as a typical youngster who from year one would have done anything he was asked to by the coach and it wasn't until his 3rd year he felt confident that he could put his hand up for specific roles within the side.



And beyond.

[SlimPickens]

Slim, Skinner was a late withdrawal against the swans.

Cheers for that... Pearce out

[bulldogsman]

On the 17 year olds not sure who they are, I do know like last year there is only 2 available.

There's 3 standouts for mine

Jesse Hogan - Key forward. Could be the next Jonathon Brown and plays a lot like him. Love his attack on the ball
Jack Martin - Key forward. Only seen highlights, Skinny and fast. Lance Franklin type. Looks to be a pretty special player.
Matt Crouch - Midfielder. Plays a lot like his brother Brad. Very good on the inside, but he has the class to play on the outside. Has a nice burst of speed.

The question is what would you give up for one of these? GWS may need ruckman, would you give up Roughead + pick? I'd like us to have a good go at Hogan, I think he will be a great player.

[bulldogsman]

In Jones, Smith
Out Roughead, Pearce

I'd let DJ come back through Willy, he's missed too much footy.
Wanted Howard in, but I have not liked his last two games for Willy.
Jones and Smith I think are the two most deserving ins.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

In Jones, Smith
Out Roughead, Pearce

I'd let DJ come back through Willy, he's missed too much footy.
Wanted Howard in, but I have not liked his last two games for Willy.
Jones and Smith I think are the two most deserving ins.

I second this, although will Smith be right to go after his concussion?

[Ghost Dog]

Roberts was simply too tall for his opponents on the YT clip you added. He plucked the marks from behind with little to no body contact on him which of course won't happen at the senior level and by the way this is not an issue about his tank.
I don't know of many AFL forwards who can consistently kick goals by playing from behind. Most get there by wrestling their way to the front of their opponent or by beating them on the lead. These are simply not traits that Roberts exhibited as a forward in the junior level. The answer the club decided to explore is to use him as a defender where he will simply have to learn to get in front and be prepared to wrestle with his opponents or run the risk of having multiple goals kicked on him. I think the club has done a good job at developing him.

[B]As for the accusations of me playing the man not the ball and if you are not allowed to express a view to me you couldn't be further off the mark.

It's one bit of vision and I think you are rather overemphasizing one marking passage. Just like the even spread of his skills and the amount of weight he has put on is impressive in such a short space of time. 5 goals in a TAC grand final is nothing to sneeze at. I really don't understand the last sentence as the grammar doesn't make sense. Anyway, moving forward, as Julia would say.

[AndrewP6]

It's one bit of vision and I think you are rather overemphasizing one marking passage. Just like the even spread of his skills and the amount of weight he has put on is impressive in such a short space of time. 5 goals in a TAC grand final is nothing to sneeze at. I really don't understand the last sentence as the grammar doesn't make sense. Anyway, moving forward, as Julia would say.

He's saying your claims of him 'playing the man', and of people not being allowed to express an opinion, are untrue.

[w3design]

It's one bit of vision and I think you are rather overemphasizing one marking passage. Just like the even spread of his skills and the amount of weight he has put on is impressive in such a short space of time. 5 goals in a TAC grand final is nothing to sneeze at. I really don't understand the last sentence as the grammar doesn't make sense. Anyway, moving forward, as Julia would say.

I was there for that GF, and if I recall correctly, he spent the first half of the match at half back. Then moved up forward to kick the 5 goals that turned and sealed the match for his side. A really good performance all round.

[Ghost Dog]

He's saying your claims of him 'playing the man', and of people not being allowed to express an opinion, are untrue.

GVG can stand up for himself don't you think AP6?



while you want everything written about the players by everyone here to be ultra positive some of us are also capable of acknowledging flaws in players game in a non negative manner.


I never said he played the man with 'people'. With Great respect to GVG, who is our moderator, and I respect that, I said he did it in a specific post above FYI. I do not want everything written about the players by everyone to be positive. That is incorrect and in referring to a person's posting in general rather than sticking to the argument at hand, that's playing the man. 'some of us' above refers I assume to ' we who know better' , ' we who are in the know'. Well ' some of us' are welcome to have their opinion and I'm welcome to mine. I have donate money, am involved in Bulldogs events and am a member. So if I think Fletcher Roberts could be a fantastic forward chance, I'll say it, based on what I've seen at Willy, and what I've heard about him. Others rate him highly and I've noticed one poster above who also thinks the same.

[AndrewP6]

GVG can stand up for himself don't you think AP6?

.

I'm certain he can, I was just trying to clear the air.

[Greystache]

Thankfully the round of footy is coming and this thread may move on.

3 players added to the squad- Jones, Smith, Skinner

[GVGjr]

It's one bit of vision and I think you are rather overemphasizing one marking passage. Just like the even spread of his skills and the amount of weight he has put on is impressive in such a short space of time. 5 goals in a TAC grand final is nothing to sneeze at. I really don't understand the last sentence as the grammar doesn't make sense. Anyway, moving forward, as Julia would say.

It's the clip you added to defend your statement about why we don't play footballers where they were drafted ie drafted as a forward and played asap defender. While you are now minimizing what the clip contains (because it now suits argument) I actually saw Roberts play on 4 or 5 occasions last season and the clip is indicative of him often playing from behind and out marking his opponents with his height. I'm sure the coaches at Williamstown will be teaching him how they want him to play and I see him being used as a defender this year as a positive.

As for you seeing Williamstown a lot would it be fair to say that it's mostly the televised games you are basing your views on that and maybe one game in Ballarat?

[GVGjr]

GVG can stand up for himself don't you think AP6?

I never said he played the man with 'people'. .
You obviously think I targeted you and you are wanting me to 'stand up' for myself and respond but I've already tried to explain that I didn't target you and I wasn't playing the man (you). It's up to you if you accept that but your statement above would indicate that you're still feeling like a victim. I'm not sure what more I can do to convince you otherwise but if you are still set in that view then that's your choice.

For someone who went to great lengths to explain their contributions to the club and how that gives you the right to express your views, your little dig at AndrewP6 isn't actually one that encourages discussions.

[bornadog]

Thankfully the round of footy is coming and this thread may move on.

3 players added to the squad- Jones, Smith, Skinner

Is that official?

[LostDoggy]

Is that official?

If he got that from the footy show then no it's not official.

I doubt we would have named our squad yet.

[G-Mo77]

Is that official?

Nope.

They have to get past Channel 7's 6:20pm announcement before any other media outlet gets them.

[LostDoggy]

Nope.

They have to get past Channel 7's 6:20pm announcement before any other media outlet gets them.

Yep! They show about 3 games teams at most.

[G-Mo77]

Yep! They show about 3 games teams at most.

If you're lucky. :)

[LostDoggy]

In Jones Smith Roberts Howard
Out Pearce

[LostDoggy]

Jones straight in.
Bench ATM is Libba, Vezpremi, Higgins, Roberts, Smith and Howard

[Sockeye Salmon]

Jones straight in.
Bench ATM is Libba, Vezpremi, Higgins, Roberts, Smith and Howard

And Roughead.

I'd love to see Roberts get a go.

[azabob]

And Roughead.

I'd love to see Roberts get a go.

Who does he replace?

[bornadog]

Who does he replace?

you would think Roughead.

[bulldogsman]

you would think Roughead.

Then who does Jones replace?

[Eastdog]

Channel 7 sports report tonight did not even mention the in and outs for our game or the Hawthorn v Brisbane game.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Then who does Jones replace?

Roughead needs to spend more time rucking which is his natural position. Both Roughead and Cordy appeal more as ruckmen than playing as key forwards.Our forward line badly lacks experience and skill and the time might be right to play Murphy across half forward. Murphy has the extra class to lift others in attack

[Eastdog]

Roughead needs to spend more time rucking which is his natural position. Both Roughead and Cordy appeal more as ruckmen than playing as key forwards.Our forward line badly lacks experience and skill and the time might be right to play Murphy across half forward. Murphy has the extra class to lift others in attack

Is it possible if the game is relatively close that Lake could play forward for a bit?

[Rocco Jones]

I would go with a bench of Higgins, Libba, Vez and Howard as the sub.

[G-Mo77]

I would go with a bench of Higgins, Libba, Vez and Howard as the sub.

Yeah I think that is how it will go as well. Would love to get a game or two into Roberts soon. Would he be a chance to make the 22?

[jeemak]

In Jones Smith Roberts Howard
Out Pearce

For mine:

In - Jones, Smith

Out - Roughead, Pearce

Roberts and Howard a bit unlucky, as is Roughead. Gia to get one more chance to prove he doesn't have old man's OP.

[Eastdog]

Sorry channel 7 sport last night didn't mention it because the teams aren't out of our match yet. Was a bit confused.

[jeemak]

Sorry channel 7 sport last night didn't mention it because the teams aren't out of our match yet. Was a bit confused.

Lift Eastdog, LIFT :)

[Ozza]

Relieved to see Jones straight back in.

[Ghost Dog]

Relieved to see Jones straight back in.

Congrats also to Fletch

[Ozza]

Congrats also to Fletch

Is there any chance he'll play? I've got to be quite honest - I couldn't pick him out of a line up - has he been playing exceptionally well for Willy?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Is there any chance he'll play? I've got to be quite honest - I couldn't pick him out of a line up - has he been playing exceptionally well for Willy?

He has been more of a negating player than an attacking one but his disposal is very good and he often takes the kick ins.

Two weeks ago v Bendigo, Gumbleton was doing some damage on Talia so Roberts got the job just before 1/4 time and despite Bendigo giving us a bit of a touchup, Gumbleton barely got another touch.

Last week against Box Hill he kept Sam Grimley to 3 kicks and 4 hb.


Officially he's listed as 193cm but I don't believe it. He must be at least another 3-4cm taller than that.

[Greystache]

Officially he's listed as 193cm but I don't believe it. He must be at least another 3-4cm taller than that.

On some sites he's listed as 196cm just to make it a bit more confusing, but at the draft camp he measured at 193.1cm, he may have grown a little bit since then but I wouldn't think it would be much.

[LongWait]

On some sites he's listed as 196cm just to make it a bit more confusing, but at the draft camp he measured at 193.1cm, he may have grown a little bit since then but I wouldn't think it would be much.

IIRC my son grew a little more than 5cm between his 17th and 19th birthdays. Could be that Fletcher is now around 196cm.

[Mantis]

Gia to get one more chance to prove he doesn't have old man's OP.

It's pretty obvious that Gia's body is failing him... Lets hope his 'smarts' allow him to be a valuable contributior.

[Greystache]

IIRC my son grew a little more than 5cm between his 17th and 19th birthdays. Could be that Fletcher is now around 196cm.

It could be, but 3cm since October would be very unusual. It would be a bonus if he had grown that much.

[G-Mo77]

Western Bulldogs
Ins: Jones, Howard
Outs: Pearce, Veszpremi

Port
Ins: Thomas, Logan
Outs: Carlile, Hitchcock

[chef]

Western Bulldogs
Ins: Jones, Howard
Outs: Pearce, Veszpremi
Port
Ins: Thomas, Logan
Outs: Carlile, Hitchcock

Don't like that one. Thought he showed a bit once moved forward in the second half against the Swans and would rather he stay there and one of Gia or Higgins come out.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How can we drop another runner and play another tall!? Veszpremi was OK against Sydney, too.

Minson, Roughead, Cordy and Jones.

That's incredibly top heavy!

[chef]

How can we drop another runner and play another tall!? Veszpremi was OK against Sydney, too.

Minson, Roughead, Cordy and Jones.

That's incredibly top heavy!

Why we play 3 rucks is beyond me, I see Cordy as a ruck/forward so we really only one of Minson or Roughead.

[Remi Moses]

Roughy, Ayce and Liam .
Way to top heavy, and a lack of run

[Ozza]

Yep - going in slow again.

[The Pie Man]

Assuming Ves is part of the random player rotation...bewildering

[The Underdog]

Assuming Ves is part of the random player rotation...bewildering

Saw Macca chewing him out on the bench at one stage and figured this might be coming. Fairly hard done by in my opinion. Shame he isn't more of a leader.

[Mantis]

Saw Macca chewing him out on the bench at one stage and figured this might be coming. Fairly hard done by in my opinion. Shame he isn't more of a leader.

Vez actually gave us a bit when he went forward.. Strange move.

[The Underdog]

Vez actually gave us a bit when he went forward.. Strange move.

I get the feeling he's not a favourite for one reason or another. He's got deficiencies for sure but I think his attributes are the ones that we struggle for which elevates his value slightly. He certainly showed some good nous up forward against the Swans and to me he's a player who'll continue to benefit from more senior football.

[LongWait]

I get the feeling he's not a favourite for one reason or another. He's got deficiencies for sure but I think his attributes are the ones that we struggle for which elevates his value slightly. He certainly showed some good nous up forward against the Swans and to me he's a player who'll continue to benefit from more senior football.

I don't think BMac rewards "poor behaviour". Grant has been sent to boot camp and Ves will be a borderline best 22 player and will play a fair bit at Willi until they prepare themselves better and are physically capable of repeat efforts and adhering to team structures. (Just my take on Ves given the recent interviews with the coach.)

[Ghost Dog]

Is there any chance he'll play? I've got to be quite honest - I couldn't pick him out of a line up - has he been playing exceptionally well for Willy?

Has shown great poise down back. As SS said, has been taking the kick-ins and doing a good job of that. We do lack a few of those 'all round', 'basketball pysique' types a coach can slot in all over the ground. A reasonably fast, mid sized player with a reliable foot, getting up around 195cm - we need more of those. Fletcher I very much like as a player but I find it hard to define. A good mix of attributes?

Vezpremi missed some straight forward shots on goal last week. He'll be made redundant if he can't kick those. Should be his bread and butter, wet or not, 45m out straight on. He's not young by AFL standards and been in the system a while. Hope he stays up forward and is made to assume a bit more responsibility. If he gets outscored by Andjres Everitt this season I'll be filthy!!:D

In all, hope we can explore a few new mixes as we build up: happy to see Gia have a run in the midfield or Roughy to go down back. Mix it up a bit and see who shines in different roles.

[The Underdog]

Vezpremi missed some straight forward shots on goal last week. He'll be made redundant if he can't kick those. Should be his bread and butter, wet or not, 45m out straight on. He's not young by AFL standards and been in the system a while. Hope he stays up forward and is made to assume a bit more responsibility. If he gets outscored by Andjres Everitt this season I'll be filthy!!:D



He also kicked one and managed to show enough smarts to put himself in good positions to get the ball in the first place, which put him ahead of a few guys I can think of. He may not be uber young but is still relatively inexperienced at AFL level on total games. I seem to rate him a little higher than most just on basic talent level but regardless I would have liked to see him given a forward role this week.

[Ghost Dog]

He also kicked one and managed to show enough smarts to put himself in good positions to get the ball in the first place, which put him ahead of a few guys I can think of. He may not be uber young but is still relatively inexperienced at AFL level on total games. I seem to rate him a little higher than most just on basic talent level but regardless I would have liked to see him given a forward role this week.

Yes, Fair points. He looks much better in the forward line doesn't he? McCartney seems unconcerned about players missing shots on goals. I think the standard line is ' The little things will take care of themselves'.