Trading...Tanking

[bulldogtragic]

Everitt, 1st rounder, 3rd rounder = Vez, Djek and Sherman = all not in the side. Why play the trading game?

[Bulldog4life]

Everitt, 1st rounder, 3rd rounder = Vez, Djek and Sherman = all not in the side. Why play the trading game?

Two of those have what we are lacking too.... leg speed.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Two of those have what we are lacking too.... leg speed.

Yes, but it seems that the midfield ethos favoured by our coaching departement favours having 8 midfielders in the team who can swarm and crack in at every ground contest, so they can win the contested ball and shovel it out quickly to one of several unattended opposition midfielders who have sat outside the contest.
Sadly Vez and Sherman aren't that type. outside run and carry is out of fashion at our club.
Sorry for being so cynical, but I am fast losing my patience with our style of play, and am just not able to see how such an unbalanced gameplan - that seems to be based around attacking the contest to the exclusion of everything else - is a sound tactical plan.
Maybe I just can't see the big picture.

[ReLoad]

I don't think I've seen a slower side than what we fielded today.

[Bulldog4life]

Yes, but it seems that the midfield ethos favoured by our coaching departement favours having 8 midfielders in the team who can swarm and crack in at every ground contest, so they can win the contested ball and shovel it out quickly to one of several unattended opposition midfielders who have sat outside the contest.
Sadly Vez and Sherman aren't that type. outside run and carry is out of fashion at our club.
Sorry for being so cynical, but I am fast losing my patience with our style of play, and am just not able to see how such an unbalanced gameplan - that seems to be based around attacking the contest to the exclusion of everything else - is a sound tactical plan.
Maybe I just can't see the big picture.

Unfortunately I'm starting to think the same way. Hopefully we don't draft more plodders.:eek:

[ReLoad]

Yes, but it seems that the midfield ethos favoured by our coaching departement favours having 8 midfielders in the team who can swarm and crack in at every ground contest, so they can win the contested ball and shovel it out quickly to one of several unattended opposition midfielders who have sat outside the contest.
Sadly Vez and Sherman aren't that type. outside run and carry is out of fashion at our club.
Sorry for being so cynical, but I am fast losing my patience with our style of play, and am just not able to see how such an unbalanced gameplan - that seems to be based around attacking the contest to the exclusion of everything else - is a sound tactical plan.
Maybe I just can't see the big picture.

I think the thing is, and it took the cats 18 months, they learnt contested footy first, then added/drilled/trained/pre seasoned for leg speed. the fact they had players capable of doing both; bartel, selwood, kelly, ablett etc all of course meant that it worked, us on the other hand.........

[Remi Moses]

I get the bang and crash, but we need run spread , link play. Need to be smarter going into the 50. Got a few talls but no point in bombing it in!

[GVGjr]

Everitt, 1st rounder, 3rd rounder = Vez, Djek and Sherman = all not in the side. Why play the trading game?

Other clubs have done OK with it so it's certainly not the problem. Rocket had a different approach that didn't nail it for us but hopefully Brendan McCartney can make the right decisions.

[KT31]

I think the thing is, and it took the cats 18 months, they learnt contested footy first, then added/drilled/trained/pre seasoned for leg speed. the fact they had players capable of doing both; bartel, selwood, kelly, ablett etc all of course meant that it worked, us on the other hand.........

Agree, even Swabb made sure the Hawks could play defence before they learnt to attack and had a tilt at a flag.
Admittedly they did have Buddy.

[azabob]

Sadly Vez and Sherman aren't that type. outside run and carry is out of fashion at our club.
Sorry for being so cynical, but I am fast losing my patience with our style of play, and am just not able to see how such an unbalanced gameplan - that seems to be based around attacking the contest to the exclusion of everything else - is a sound tactical plan.
Maybe I just can't see the big picture.

I recall when Eade first took over we were full of attack and very light on for defence and hunger for the physical contested ball.

This time around McCartney is addressing the contested ball first.

I guess you can't implement everything at once.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I guess you can't implement everything at once.

Why not its called a game plan,

[Rance Fan]

Time to tank!

[w3design]

Time to tank!

Agree the tank is calling get on board. The lower the better in a great draft.

[Remi Moses]

That was the only positive .
Think we're going to finish 14 or 15

[Max469]

someone to put through the middle of the big sticks would most definitely help.

too many weeks - too many points.

other clubs make it look so easy.

[Bulldog4life]

Time to tank!

Not sure we'll need to tank to lose.

[bulldogtragic]

Not sure we'll need to tank to lose.
Sorry and sad, but true.

[GVGjr]

Time to tank!

No thanks. We can't draw a decent crowd even when we are trying and I'll be stuffed if I will buy memberships if we aren't fair dinkum.

How does a coach ask players to dig deep when it counts if he has been manipulating results?

[Pickenitup]

We have To Draft Outside Mids Who Can kick Must Draft Them.
Still Wished We drafted Crozier Instead of Smith i think we have stuffed up there

[bornadog]

Time to tank!

WE don't need to tank, we already are at that level.

[Doc26]

No thanks. We can't draw a decent crowd even when we are trying and I'll be stuffed if I will buy memberships if we aren't fair dinkum.

How does a coach ask players to dig deep when it counts if he has been manipulating results?

Agree. Tanking is just a poor excuse for lacking enough smarts in recruitment, development and list management. Let's get our own backyard corrected first and then see how we fair.

[GVGjr]

Agree. Tanking is just a poor excuse for lacking enough smarts in recruitment, development and list management. Let's get our own backyard corrected first and then see how we fair.

The suggestions that some fans make along the lines of tanking games is most often done out of frustration after a bad loss which is understandable I suppose especially if the season is just slipping away but those who legitimately believe we should tank games either haven't thought it through or are prone to take short cuts in life.

Tanking is cheating nothing more and nothing less. It's the equivalent of taking drugs to gain an edge on the opposition in sports, cheating on your employer to gain a financial benefit that you don't deserve or haven't earned and in the case of the team I follow it's simply misleading the supporters who put their hard earned forward each season so it's effectively lying to your loved ones.
No one should be comfortable doing that.

I just don't see why people suggest it so much unless they want to take the short cuts in life.

We simply don't need to go down that road. All the points you have raised will benefit the club much more than sneaking up a few positions in the draft order.

[Remi Moses]

Let's be honest tanking can be defined in different ways.
Point 1 players don't "Tank" we all know that.
Are we tanking if we play younger players?
Are we tanking if we put injured players away for the season?
Gotta say I'd be annoyed if we have players who need post season operations and don't have them because we're in a battle for 13th!
Would we rather 10th or 14th 15th? Personally I'd rather 14 or 15.

[LostDoggy]

I'm going to attempt a glass half full attitude and say that I think this year the emphasis is squarely on drilling the players on contested footy as the foundation of any game plan. I hope that this will be followed by developing the other ingredients of that game plan I.e. spread and run and carry. The season in some ways has exceeded my expectations as I thought we would be smacked more than we have been. We rolled the dice yesterday with our forward set up and it didn't work, in fact unlike Port, Brisbane exploited it.

I can't see how we can play so many inside mids next year. Also, as much as I admire their guts and hardness, I'd say Crossy and Addison probably should depart.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Let's be honest tanking can be defined in different ways.
Point 1 players don't "Tank" we all know that.
Are we tanking if we play younger players?
Are we tanking if we put injured players away for the season?
Gotta say I'd be annoyed if we have players who need post season operations and don't have them because we're in a battle for 13th!
Would we rather 10th or 14th 15th? Personally I'd rather 14 or 15.

These are my sentiments on the matter exactly.

[The Underdog]

WE don't need to tank, we already are at that level.

This. And given Melbourne are still to play GWS twice and GC once, Port have a couple of easy ones and that we probably won't start favourites in any of our remaining fixtures we may still end up lower. It's tough to see us winning more than one or two more on paper.

Please, please pick up some mids with speed and footskills in the first round.

[GVGjr]

Would we rather 10th or 14th 15th? Personally I'd rather 14 or 15.

That's not the way to look at it. It's about teaching the players to place a premium on winning and that winning should be the aim every time you put on the club colors. As supporters we should be demanding it.
You are effectively asking the coach and players to pick and choose when they will or won't try and that cannot serve the club well over the longer term. Establishing a culture that sets high standards will serve the club far better than a bump in the draft order of a few positions.

[GVGjr]

I'm going to attempt a glass half full attitude and say that I think this year the emphasis is squarely on drilling the players on contested footy as the foundation of any game plan. I hope that this will be followed by developing the other ingredients of that game plan I.e. spread and run and carry. The season in some ways has exceeded my expectations as I thought we would be smacked more than we have been. We rolled the dice yesterday with our forward set up and it didn't work, in fact unlike Port, Brisbane exploited it.

I can't see how we can play so many inside mids next year. Also, as much as I admire their guts and hardness, I'd say Crossy and Addison probably should depart.

I like a lot of what you have posted. This year is about the coach teaching the players the type of football that is required to take the club forward and we must give the coach every chance to do that this year.

Brisbane were just too athletic for us yesterday plus their skill level, particularly their goal kicking, was superior. Hopefully we can put in far better performances for the balance of the season.

[chef]

That's not the way to look at it. It's about teaching the players to place a premium on winning and that winning should be the aim every time you put on the club colors. As supporters we should be demanding it.
You are effectively asking the coach and players to pick and choose when they will or won't try and that cannot serve the club well over the longer term. Establishing a culture that sets high standards will serve the club far better than a bump in the draft order of a few positions.

Winning or playing the right style of football?

I can't see us tanking, but I hope we can get more games into our kids rather than promote guys like Gilbee, Moles etc who aren't in the future of the team.

[GVGjr]

Winning or playing the right style of football?

Both. We want all players to be primarily focused on wining every game of football they play.
The coach must teach them to play the type of football that will achieve that.

[chef]

Both. We want all players to be primarily focused on wining every game of football they play.
The coach must teach them to play the type of football that will achieve that.

The way I see it is he needs to teach them the right way to play and if he's any good as a coach the results will take care of themselves. But he also needs the right cattle.

[LostDoggy]

The way I see it is he needs to teach them the right way to play and if he's any good as a coach the results will take care of themselves. But he also needs the right cattle.

Bingo - he needs the right cattle...

[LostDoggy]

Do we need to talk of tanking? Who are we actually odds on to beat for the rest of the year?

I Consoled myself yesterday that it was a good loss for the draft. I do hope we have a long term plan and the players can improve but those big guys can't seem to take marks or kick at the moment.

[Desipura]

The way I see our list at the moment is that we have a number of kids we do not know if they will be good players or great players by the end of their careers ie Libba and Jones.
If they all only become good players, our climb up the ladder might take longer.

We have only 2 players in Griffen and Lake that are great players. (I believe you need at least 6).
We especially need to nail our 1st round picks this year to ensure we have players who will become elite players in the competition.

[LostDoggy]

Yep some elite players doing special things supported by good players giving their maximum output and kids contributing - that's the mix and formula IMO

[GVGjr]

The way I see it is he needs to teach them the right way to play and if he's any good as a coach the results will take care of themselves. But he also needs the right cattle.

But essentially the approach you are suggesting is altered by the position on the ladder.

Every one can get vague by the way they carefully word things but it appears to be a roundabout way of disguising tanking. If we did it, and the coach won't mind you, I hope we get caught and pay a heavy price by losing early draft picks.

[bornadog]

Please, please pick up some mids with speed and footskills in the first round.

Weren't the foot skills of Brisbane great to watch yesterday (if you know what I mean). The long bomb by Rich from inside the square went through the goals on the full.

[GVGjr]

Weren't the foot skills of Brisbane great to watch yesterday (if you know what I mean). The long bomb by Rich from inside the square went through the goals on the full.

And the haven't done it just by getting early draft picks. Not only were the likes of Rich racking up important possessions around the midfield and making them count but Merrett was kicking them from all angles.

[Sockeye Salmon]

And the haven't done it just by getting early draft picks. Not only were the likes of Rich racking up important possessions around the midfield and making them count but Merrett was kicking them from all angles.

Have you ever seen an Irishman kick the ball like Hanley? Wow.

[bornadog]

And the haven't done it just by getting early draft picks. Not only were the likes of Rich racking up important possessions around the midfield and making them count but Merrett was kicking them from all angles.

Cooney had three shots all gettable and all points. 18.6 was very accurate compared to our 14 behinds.

[anfo27]

We have To Draft Outside Mids Who Can kick Must Draft Them.
Still Wished We drafted Crozier Instead of Smith i think we have stuffed up there

annoyed at this post. Give the kid a bloody chance before you give up on him. The kid played a quarter & a half yesterday & had 5 tackles, only 2 players had more tackles.

What has Crozier done in his 3 games to suggest he will be a better player than Clay?

Clay needs to improve his kicking but he is one tough mongrel & something we lack.

I know a lot of posters are questioning the way macca is going about it but look at Geelong. A lot of those players are not blessed with speed or exquisite kicking skills but they are all hard tough mongrels that are bloody hard to play against. I for one would love to see my side as a side everyone considers the hardest to play against.

[GVGjr]

Have you ever seen an Irishman kick the ball like Hanley? Wow.

It gets back to Doc 26's point, player development is a key area.

[Eastdog]

Do you think GVG that tanking can have long term benefits for a club or is it just a cop out in which in encourages teams to lose and try which is not good for the game.

[anfo27]

Have you ever seen an Irishman kick the ball like Hanley? Wow.

yeah i have, Zach Tuohy from the blues is great kick from both sides & is one of the best kicks at his club. You would never pick with his kicking technique that he has only played the game for a few years.

[mjp]

I for one would love to see my side as a side everyone considers the hardest to play against.

Not sure Brisbane or Sydney would suggest we are a difficult side to play against.

I am sorry but two out of our past three performances have been completely unacceptable and attendance is showing that either the fan base has completely lost hope or they have lost some hope and really don't enjoy watching us play at the moment. That Brisbane look to be a quicker, more skilled side yesterday despite their well chronicled drafting/trading snafus is not good...not good at all.

Personally, I am very tired of hearing about how Geelong go about it. If you think premierships in 2015 will be won playing the style of footy perfected by Geelong between 2007 and 2011 then I have a harbour bridge I would like to sell you.

[Remi Moses]

That's not the way to look at it. It's about teaching the players to place a premium on winning and that winning should be the aim every time you put on the club colors. As supporters we should be demanding it.
You are effectively asking the coach and players to pick and choose when they will or won't try and that cannot serve the club well over the longer term. Establishing a culture that sets high standards will serve the club far better than a bump in the draft order of a few positions.

Didn't infer that the players "Don't try". Merely saying if we have players that need post season surgery or playing guys like Howard instead of Gilbee. Just looking at the fixture I wouldn't say we'd have to many more wins anyhow.

[GVGjr]

Do you think GVG that tanking can have long term benefits for a club or is it just a cop out in which in encourages teams to lose and try which is not good for the game.

From what I can tell it's nothing more than a convenient under researched expression that appeals to people that are either frustrated with results or prone to taking short cuts in life. It's certainly not good for the game to have so many people willing their side to lose once they come to the realization that they won't make the finals.

The AFL introduced priority picks to try and help clubs that bottom out but this ended up with the public wanting their clubs to tank games to gain extra selections which isn't ideal.
The Hawks never dropped games to move up the order nor did the Swans. Well run sides don't need to cheat the system. Thankfully we have a coach that wants to prove himself and he wouldn't throw games to jump a few positions in the draft order.

It's a shame we don't have a relegation system like the EPL. No EPL fan wants to see their side lose and be dropped down a division. They don't have a draft that can be compromised by all this negative speculation either.

[The Underdog]

Personally, I am very tired of hearing about how Geelong go about it. If you think premierships in 2015 will be won playing the style of footy perfected by Geelong between 2007 and 2011 then I have a harbour bridge I would like to sell you.

It's the issue I have with picking Smith because he is a certain "type" that fits the contested game plan. I remember McCartney saying at the time that they needed to draft now to plan for the retirements of Boyd, Cross etc, but realistically what are Wallis and Liberatore if not pretty direct replacements for those guys? On the other hand we didn't draft at all to fill the hole of the massive lack of pace in our list. I'm actually starting to miss Nathan Eagleton's ability to run and carry and hit a target.

[Sockeye Salmon]

annoyed at this post. Give the kid a bloody chance before you give up on him. The kid played a quarter & a half yesterday & had 5 tackles, only 2 players had more tackles.

What has Crozier done in his 3 games to suggest he will be a better player than Clay?

Clay needs to improve his kicking but he is one tough mongrel & something we lack.

I know a lot of posters are questioning the way macca is going about it but look at Geelong. A lot of those players are not blessed with speed or exquisite kicking skills but they are all hard tough mongrels that are bloody hard to play against. I for one would love to see my side as a side everyone considers the hardest to play against.

Actually, Crozier has been pretty good for Freo.

[The Underdog]

It's a shame we don't have a relegation system like the EPL. No EPL fan wants to see their side lose and be dropped down a division. They don't have a draft that can be compromised by all this negative speculation either.

Unfortunately that's all most fans in the EPL can hope for because the majority of teams have no chance of winning it, unless their team get's bought by the right kind of billionaire. That's a worse issue than potential tanking in my view.

[Remi Moses]

Teams now either match us for contested stuff, or they wait until we stuff up and just run all over the place

[anfo27]

Not sure Brisbane or Sydney would suggest we are a difficult side to play against.

I am sorry but two out of our past three performances have been completely unacceptable and attendance is showing that either the fan base has completely lost hope or they have lost some hope and really don't enjoy watching us play at the moment. That Brisbane look to be a quicker, more skilled side yesterday despite their well chronicled drafting/trading snafus is not good...not good at all.

Personally, I am very tired of hearing about how Geelong go about it. If you think premierships in 2015 will be won playing the style of footy perfected by Geelong between 2007 and 2011 then I have a harbour bridge I would like to sell you.

not sure why you posted this? I said i would like to tough to beat, never suggested thats what we are now.

Well i'm tired of hearing people going on about getting pace. We used to be the quickest team years ago and that didn't win us anything. We need players that can play regardless of how quick they are.

[anfo27]

Actually, Crozier has been pretty good for Freo.

Never said he was rubbish. Has he done so much is 3 games that you can say he s a much better player than Smith? Smith didn't have a bad debut either.

[chef]

Actually, Crozier has been pretty good for Freo.

Yep and looks like the type we are crying out for.

[Greystache]

Actually, Crozier has been pretty good for Freo.

4.3 kicks a game, wow.

[Pickenitup]

Crozier Fitted our needs more than Smith.
We where very keen On Crozier that is Fact.
Not having a pot on Smith think he has been ok just saying that for such a high pick to 'pick
a player with Poor Skills when we needed outside pace and skill was staggering.

[mjp]

not sure why you posted this? I said i would like to tough to beat, never suggested thats what we are now.

Well i'm tired of hearing people going on about getting pace. We used to be the quickest team years ago and that didn't win us anything. We need players that can play regardless of how quick they are.

I posted it because I was curious about what elements of our style of play make you think we are going to be hard to play against. We win a stoppage then kick it straight to the other team...and by recruiting players with poor foot skills we are perpetuating a 'now' problem (Cross, Boyd et al) into a future problem (Smith).

Who cares if you are 'hard at it' if you cannot release the ball to a team-mate. I don't ever remember us being the 'quickest' team in it, but we did have leg-speed. Now we have very little and it hurts us...it hurts us even more because our lack of legspeed and poor kicking skills make it impossible to maintain possession of the ball.

Yes - we need players who can play. To me, the old adage that if you can't kick you can't play has never been truer and we have far too many players in our side in this category.

[Cyberdoggie]

I posted it because I was curious about what elements of our style of play make you think we are going to be hard to play against. We win a stoppage then kick it straight to the other team...and by recruiting players with poor foot skills we are perpetuating a 'now' problem (Cross, Boyd et al) into a future problem (Smith).

Who cares if you are 'hard at it' if you cannot release the ball to a team-mate. I don't ever remember us being the 'quickest' team in it, but we did have leg-speed. Now we have very little and it hurts us...it hurts us even more because our lack of legspeed and poor kicking skills make it impossible to maintain possession of the ball.

Yes - we need players who can play. To me, the old adage that if you can't kick you can't play has never been truer and we have far too many players in our side in this category.

I don't know how much of it is confidence or skill, but we were so bloody deplorable and kicking for goal and general passing it was embarrasing. It got so bad that you knew that we would miss every set shot, and every no pressure pass would either completely miss the target or hit the target and be dropped after getting first grabs.

[FrediKanoute]

Do you think GVG that tanking can have long term benefits for a club or is it just a cop out in which in encourages teams to lose and try which is not good for the game.

I'll have a go and point to teams like Carlton and Melbourne and Richmond and Freo who have all "tanked"/finished low on the ladder for an extended period of time. The have been blessed with some talented footballers, but it hasn't got any of them closer to a GF or a flag. Why? I think its to do with establishing a winning process and culture. Having the cattle is part of the battle, but if you take the Geelong model and the Brisbane model before that, the ingredient they had was a winning formula which became a winning mentality. Tanking doesn't get you that. If any thing it develops a culture where losing for short term gain is acceptable. In sport you win or you fail.

[Ghost Dog]

I don't know how much of it is confidence or skill, but we were so bloody deplorable and kicking for goal and general passing it was embarrasing. It got so bad that you knew that we would miss every set shot, and every no pressure pass would either completely miss the target or hit the target and be dropped after getting first grabs.

Are you just talking about the Brisbane game? Against Port we were not that bad.
Swans was a debacle.

[Ghost Dog]

From what I can tell it's nothing more than a convenient under researched expression that appeals to people that are either frustrated with results or prone to taking short cuts in life. It's certainly not good for the game to have so many people willing their side to lose once they come to the realization that they won't make the finals.

The AFL introduced priority picks to try and help clubs that bottom out but this ended up with the public wanting their clubs to tank games to gain extra selections which isn't ideal.
The Hawks never dropped games to move up the order nor did the Swans. Well run sides don't need to cheat the system. Thankfully we have a coach that wants to prove himself and he wouldn't throw games to jump a few positions in the draft order.

It's a shame we don't have a relegation system like the EPL. No EPL fan wants to see their side lose and be dropped down a division. They don't have a draft that can be compromised by all this negative speculation either.

My thoughts exactly. If I do suspect we tank, ( we won't ) I will immediately toss my card off the westgate.

[FrediKanoute]

Unfortunately that's all most fans in the EPL can hope for because the majority of teams have no chance of winning it, unless their team get's bought by the right kind of billionaire. That's a worse issue than potential tanking in my view.

Agree, the EPL and most football competitions are dominated by a few teams who win all the silverware. Its where the AFL is heading, because player development, player screening and free agency are directly correlated to clubs with money. In general (and 2012 was an exception), but the EPL title race is boring with the top 4 spots wrapped up by Christmas. The real excitement is seeing which teams avoid the drop. That isn't healthy.

[FrediKanoute]

I posted it because I was curious about what elements of our style of play make you think we are going to be hard to play against. We win a stoppage then kick it straight to the other team...and by recruiting players with poor foot skills we are perpetuating a 'now' problem (Cross, Boyd et al) into a future problem (Smith).

Who cares if you are 'hard at it' if you cannot release the ball to a team-mate. I don't ever remember us being the 'quickest' team in it, but we did have leg-speed. Now we have very little and it hurts us...it hurts us even more because our lack of legspeed and poor kicking skills make it impossible to maintain possession of the ball.

Yes - we need players who can play. To me, the old adage that if you can't kick you can't play has never been truer and we have far too many players in our side in this category.

I can't disagree with any of this, especially the last part. Being able to kick and kick accurately is a fundemental. I've on seen Smith in a few games and I find him underwhelming. Hard at it yes, but highly skilled no. Wasted high pick in my opinion.

[anfo27]

I posted it because I was curious about what elements of our style of play make you think we are going to be hard to play against. We win a stoppage then kick it straight to the other team...and by recruiting players with poor foot skills we are perpetuating a 'now' problem (Cross, Boyd et al) into a future problem (Smith).

Who cares if you are 'hard at it' if you cannot release the ball to a team-mate. I don't ever remember us being the 'quickest' team in it, but we did have leg-speed. Now we have very little and it hurts us...it hurts us even more because our lack of legspeed and poor kicking skills make it impossible to maintain possession of the ball.

Yes - we need players who can play. To me, the old adage that if you can't kick you can't play has never been truer and we have far too many players in our side in this category.

I don't pretend to be a footy guru & i don't have the footy background you do so there is no point getting into specifics about styles of play.I call it as i see it & our lack of pace had little if any effect on the final outcome of yesterdays game.
IMO we lost yesterday because we were not prepared to work hard enough defensively. We allowed them to pass the ball around, take uncontested marks at will & move the ball up the ground with little to no pressure.
That to me has nothing to do with pace but rather a unwillingness not to run hard enough to do your job defensively. This is a bad habit that we have had for years & one I'm sick to death of seeing.
We don't need to be drafting players because they are visually appealing, we need to get guys in that are unwavering & uncompromising in their approach & guys that are mentally tough. If these guys happen to be quick & kick the ball well, then thats great but that should not be the basis of why we pick these kids.
I for one like the direction Macca is taking.

[Sockeye Salmon]

4.3 kicks a game, wow.

We don't count handballs anymore?


16 touches (11 contested!) after coming on as a sub isn't too bad.

11 touches at 91% this week.

3 touches in less than a quarter as a sub on debut doesn't really count for much.

[Greystache]

We don't count handballs anymore?


16 touches (11 contested!) after coming on as a sub isn't too bad.

11 touches at 91% this week.

3 touches in less than a quarter as a sub on debut doesn't really count for much.

Because we desperately need players handling more...

If a young player on our list was averaging 10 touches a game you'd be screaming for them to be dropped, let alone using them as the poster boy for who we should have drafted.

You were smashing Smith for only getting a couple of touches when coming on as the sub for less than a quarter, but when it suits it doesn't really count.

[Sedat]

I don't necessarily have a problem with us getting Smith over a Crozier or McKenzie type (although I am concerned that you cannot deconstruct and reconstruct the kicking technique of an 18yo). After all, Brendan McCartney deserves the chance to mould and shape the team as he sees fit. I have a much bigger problem with needlessly losing Ward (obviously occurred before BMac's arrival), which necessitated the line of thought that we needed another hard-at-it midfielder as immediate replacement. Ward is an elite mid of the competition already and will be for another 8-10 years, whereas all of Smith, Crozier and McKenzie are unknown quantities at the minute. However it would stand to reason that retaining Ward would have meant less of a need for more inside midfield grunt at the draft table last year. Likewise losing Harbrow led us to believe that we needed to select a small defender the previous draft, and Jayden Schofield has already left the club. These issues in isolation don't mean an awful lot, but when added together they go a very long way to explaining the lopsided list that we currently have.

[w3design]

From my perspective there were two major problems yesterday.
First, it is all very well getting numbers in and around the ball, and getting first hands on the pill. But eventually it has to come out of the pack situation. When it did yesterday, the only players there to receive and distribute it were Lions.
Next, to many of our players were content to trot along in the wake of opponents running with the ball, rather than really chasing.
Then of course there was our old chestnut of allowing the opponent far to much room, and latitude.

[Bulldog4life]

Because we desperately need players handling more...

If a young player on our list was averaging 10 touches a game you'd be screaming for them to be dropped, let alone using them as the poster boy for who we should have drafted.

You were smashing Smith for only getting a couple of touches when coming on as the sub for less than a quarter, but when it suits it doesn't really count.

I agree with you and I like Smith. It is irritating to continually read "who we should have drafted". It is more constructive to comment on what type of player we should draft in the forthcoming draft. We've got Smith now let's support the lad.

[Remi Moses]

Watched a player the other night who wouldn't kick once upon a time.
One Jobe Watson. Let's wait and see before we make a conclusive judgement.

[Ghost Dog]

I agree with you and I like Smith. It is irritating to continually read "who we should have drafted". It is more constructive to comment on what type of player we should draft in the forthcoming draft. We've got Smith now let's support the lad.

Good point there Bulldog4life. Besides, will he be any worse than Boyd?

[LostDoggy]

We need an omen. Perhaps if we play Sherman each week we'll get the results some on this thread are looking for :)