Bulldogs crowds plunge 9000 in three years

[Sedat]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/bulldogs-crowds-plunge-9000-in-three-years/story-e6frexx0-1226408340167

Any of our supporters wanting to 'bottom out' for another season or two might want to reconsider. This significant crowd drop has occurred after barely 18 months out of the top 4 - imagine how magnified the issue would be with 4-5 consecutive seasons out of September action.

[LostDoggy]

Seem to be heading back to the dark days where every newspaper article about us was centred around no money, low crowds and low membership. North has taken that mantle from us over the last few years.

It's a sad reality that many fans are fickle and if the team is not winning and playing attractive football, they don't turn up. I wonder also whether neutrals who in the past enjoyed watching us when were quick and skillful have also stopped attending our games?? All in all, it's a worry and I don't think anyone has the answers. I just took a look at the fixture and we seem to have a lot of Sunday late games to come - that won't help our cause.

Anyway, I still pay my membership, my Nephew's membership and social club despite the fact I can't get to games and I will continue to do this (hopefully) until I die as I love the club. I will say one thing, I made a donation of $100 (not a lot I know) last month to the Bulldoze the Debt campaign and although I didn't do it for any recognition, I was surprised that I didn't at least receive some kind of acknowledgement from the Club to say thank you.

Dogs fans, I know we live in tough financial times but if you can get to games, please show your support. Listening to the game on the radio on Saturday sounded like we were playing at the GABBA - Embarrassing and surely doesn't do much for the players morale out on the field.

Cheers
Dan

[G-Mo77]

I will say one thing, I made a donation of $100 (not a lot I know) last month to the Bulldoze the Debt campaign and although I didn't do it for any recognition, I was surprised that I didn't at least receive some kind of acknowledgement from the Club to say thank you.


That's really disappointing. I remember back in 1989, I was 12 and donated all the pocket money I saved which was $20, it took me a long time to save so it was pretty significant. It took a while, which was understandable at the time but I received a thank you letter. It felt so good to get a piece of paper showing their appreciation.

Instead of articles like this why not focus on the members and supporters who have attended during these bad times, something positive. Maybe it's just me but it feels like there is the club and the members are a separate entity which it is in theory but members would like to feel they're apart of something and appreciated not just treated like revenue.

[Mantis]

Dogs fans, I know we live in tough financial times but if you can get to games, please show your support. Listening to the game on the radio on Saturday sounded like we were playing at the GABBA - Embarrassing and surely doesn't do much for the players morale out on the field.



There wasn't too much to cheer about on the weekend, especially in the 2nd half when it was 10 goals to 2... with one of those coming in the last minute.

[LostDoggy]

How does this drop in attendance compare in relation to the number of Sunday twilight games being scheduled? We are not dropping off we are getting pushed off.
The club doesn't seem to care, and it is flowing onto the supporters. You saw it again last week with what they did (or didn't do) to Minson and maybe the fans again responded to that???

[Sedat]

The club doesn't seem to care, and it is flowing onto the supporters. You saw it again last week with what they did (or didn't do) to Minson and maybe the fans again responded to that???I heard David Smorgon this morning on SEN and he sounded flat, almost resigned to our current situation. Clearly he cares deeply for our club, but perhaps the past 15 seasons at the helm has taken a toll.

[Cyberdoggie]

There wasn't too much to cheer about on the weekend, especially in the 2nd half when it was 10 goals to 2... with one of those coming in the last minute.

A lot of people walked out very early, my own father left a few minutes after half time.
Three other people i know of also walked out in the second quarter.


I think unfortunately the club is on a downward curve after the winning years recently, and i think many bulldog supporters invested so much into those years and the hope of finally winning a flag that it's all starting to pour out now in dissapointment.
Once we start to bottom out for a while and everyone accepts that those years have gone and it's time to forget and move on, then perhaps a new passion might begin to emerge.
Unfortunately i think we are all still suffering from the years of recent success (even though we didn't really win anything).

[Ozza]

How does this drop in attendance compare in relation to the number of Sunday twilight games being scheduled? We are not dropping off we are getting pushed off.
The club doesn't seem to care, and it is flowing onto the supporters. You saw it again last week with what they did (or didn't do) to Minson and maybe the fans again responded to that???

I think this is a bit of a cop out.

Of our Melbourne games - We've had 2 Sunday twilight games. We've also had 2 Friday night games. 2 Sunday 'day' games (1pm or 2pm starts), one Saturday 'day game' and we've had a Saturday night game.

There has been poor Bulldogs supporter/barracker attendances at all of these.

The fixture is blamed because its convenient. Our supporter numbers have been terrible because people are just choosing not to go.

And yes, there's plenty that have their reasons - they live in the country, interstate, have young families, can't afford it - so before 15 people reply with their own exact circumstances - I don't care - I'm talking about the supporter numbers overall.

The fixture is not particularly better or worse than it was in the past - we've always played plenty of Sunday games (I barely missed a game for a few years when I played footy on Saturdays) - we just don't get good attendances because people are choosing not to go.

And the same people will be blaming the AFL, the club, and Collingwood - if we ever fold or relocate. There were 75,000 people at Fitzroy's last game in Melbourne. Where were they all when they were needed?

[Dancin' Douggy]

The best way to get Crowds back and Morale up is with fresh exciting new young players.

Stars of the future.
We are going to bottom out whether we like it or not, it's not the supporter's fault.

The compensation FOR THAT is High draft picks.

We need to draft exciting talented players. Buddy Franklin, Nic Natanui types.
We are so well stocked now with dour one paced midfielders,
I really hope we don't throw our picks away on more of the same.
With our first two picks we need two superstars.

That will get supporters excited and get them back at the games,
Players that will even bring in 'neutrals' to watch them
PLEASE DON'T SCREW UP!!!

[bornadog]

The crowds this year have been down for most teams, I wonder whether live TV has contributed to it.

Here is a list showing the averages with half the teams either down or about the same. Only Richmond has had a large increase. (Note 2011 based on 22 games and 2012 12 games)


2011 2012
Collingwood 57,725 57,313 down
Carlton 49,553 44,867 down
Essendon 49,691 45,821 down
Geelong 39,223 35,128 down
Hawthorn 39,279 38,507 down
West Coast 33,113 34,028
Richmond 40,695 43,988
St Kilda 35,537 31,540 down
Melbourne 33,231 34,023
Sydney 27,359 26,942 down
Adelaide 30,559 31,380
Fremantle 30,108 30,392
WBulldogs 28,705 23,103 down
North Melb 28,074 21,922 down
Brisbane 25,190 25,156
Port Adelaide 23,065 24,139
Gold Coast 22,075 15,969 down
Average Total 34,893 33,189

[Ozza]

The crowds this year have been down for most teams, I wonder whether live TV has contributed to it.

Here is a list showing the averages with half the teams either down or about the same. Only Richmond has had a large increase. (Note 2011 based on 22 games and 2012 12 games)


2011 2012
Collingwood 57,725 57,313 down
Carlton 49,553 44,867 down
Essendon 49,691 45,821 down
Geelong 39,223 35,128 down
Hawthorn 39,279 38,507 down
West Coast 33,113 34,028
Richmond 40,695 43,988
St Kilda 35,537 31,540 down
Melbourne 33,231 34,023
Sydney 27,359 26,942 down
Adelaide 30,559 31,380
Fremantle 30,108 30,392
WBulldogs 28,705 23,103 down
North Melb 28,074 21,922 down
Brisbane 25,190 25,156
Port Adelaide 23,065 24,139
Gold Coast 22,075 15,969 down
Average Total 34,893 33,189


I would have thought that poor crowds for GWS and Gold Coast games would be impacting the averages also.

North Melbourne, for instance, have played Gold Coast twice, GWS once - and have also played Port Adelaide who pull bad crowds.

[Sockeye Salmon]

With so many clubs having falling attendances perhaps in part it is a response to the AFL ripping the heart and soul out of the game.

That the main reason I've missed matches this year.

[LostDoggy]

I think this is a bit of a cop out.

Of our Melbourne games - We've had 2 Sunday twilight games. We've also had 2 Friday night games. 2 Sunday 'day' games (1pm or 2pm starts), one Saturday 'day game' and we've had a Saturday night game.

There has been poor Bulldogs supporter/barracker attendances at all of these.

The fixture is blamed because its convenient. Our supporter numbers have been terrible because people are just choosing not to go.

And yes, there's plenty that have their reasons - they live in the country, interstate, have young families, can't afford it - so before 15 people reply with their own exact circumstances - I don't care - I'm talking about the supporter numbers overall.

The fixture is not particularly better or worse than it was in the past - we've always played plenty of Sunday games (I barely missed a game for a few years when I played footy on Saturdays) - we just don't get good attendances because people are choosing not to go.

And the same people will be blaming the AFL, the club, and Collingwood - if we ever fold or relocate. There were 75,000 people at Fitzroy's last game in Melbourne. Where were they all when they were needed?

What is your explanation for it then?
For those that live in Melbourne I can tell you almost any interstate AFL fan will schedule in a game (Any Game) when spending a weekend there. Especially those from towns that don't have an AFL team. They don't care who they see, but it will almost certainly be who ever is playing at the MCG on a Fiday night, Saturday arvo or Saturday night. Couple that with form, a few years ago all the people I'd talk to in Tassie would all state that the Bulldogs were their favourite team to watch aside from thier own. With their free flowing running it was exciting to them. When these types of people go to Melbourne, they don't want to see a flat side run around on a Sunday afternoon.

Or could it be that the AFL bubble has burst?

[Dazza]

I'll be pissed if the club didn't budget for a fallout.

Nothing is more certain than crowds dropping off when you are going through a rough patch.

They'll be back up when we are playing finals again.

[LostDoggy]

I heard David Smorgon this morning on SEN and he sounded flat, almost resigned to our current situation. Clearly he cares deeply for our club, but perhaps the past 15 seasons at the helm has taken a toll.

I'm totally disillusioned with him.
He seems to be only spinning the BS these days.
Preseason it was refresh not rebuild, today it's we have played interstaters.
I don't buy the hard financial times argument either. We have 30K members who have paid up yet less than 20K of those are turning up.

[LostDoggy]

I know one thing, I can't bare going back to the struggling club just happy with surviving kind of mentality that we endured for so long. We lack a superstar to get people through the gates imo. We have some good solid players but they don't have profiles and I'm not sure that anyone on our list is a game changer. Closest would be Griff, Lakey and Bobby if you ask me, but I think the average AFL fan loves to watch an exciting forward or explosive midfielder these days.

I think as financial members we have the right to ask what OUR club stands for and demand more. We seem to walk on egg shells around the AFL, kind of a don't bite the hand that feeds you mentality, and quite frankly I'm sick of it. We're like the ACCC, a toothless tiger (or toothless bulldog in this case!) How about we write the club a collective letter stating our concerns and asking for clarification on where we are trying to get to and how we plan on getting there?

On a side note, We simply must address our list issues in this draft and I'm confident that Jason McCartney knows what he's doing. If 20'000 fans can see our deficiencies, surely the well paid people at the club should also see them. Drafting well is so important and when you waste early picks it can set you back for years. I can't remember the exact number that these players were taken, but names like Sam Power, Tim Walsh, Farren Ray, Andrjes Everitt, Jordan McMahon were all high picks and haven't worked out for us. I'm sure there are other names to and I'd be interested if someone could come up with some more for me.

Apologies for my rant!

[Mantis]

On a side note, We simply must address our list issues in this draft and I'm confident that Jason McCartney knows what he's doing. If 20'000 fans can see our deficiencies, surely the well paid people at the club should also see them. Drafting well is so important and when you waste early picks it can set you back for years. I can't remember the exact number that these players were taken, but names like Sam Power, Tim Walsh, Farren Ray, Andrjes Everitt, Jordan McMahon were all high picks and haven't worked out for us. I'm sure there are other names to and I'd be interested if someone could come up with some more for me.



What are you basing your sense of confidence on?

[LostDoggy]

What are you basing your sense of confidence on?

Have a good mate on the Dockers fitness staff who knows Jason well and speaks very highly of him.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I would have thought that poor crowds for GWS and Gold Coast games would be impacting the averages also.

North Melbourne, for instance, have played Gold Coast twice, GWS once - and have also played Port Adelaide who pull bad crowds.

Our draw hasn't helped with matches so far against West Coast, Melbourne, GWS, North Melbourne, Gold Coast, Port Adelaide and Brisbane. The next 5 games will include Essendon, Hawthorn, Carlton and St. Kilda and providing our form improves should see bigger attendances against the stronger Melbourne based clubs.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Our draw hasn't helped with matches so far against West Coast, Melbourne, GWS, North Melbourne, Gold Coast, Port Adelaide and Brisbane. The next 5 games will include Essendon, Hawthorn, Carlton and St. Kilda and providing our form improves should see bigger attendances against the stronger Melbourne based clubs.

Really? I would've thought in a season where we are struggling to get wins, that it is against the perceived weaker clubs we should expect to see a bigger pro Dogs turnout. At times on the TV it sounded like we were playing the Lions at the GABBA.
The week prior against Port was a disaster. I don't care what time the match was on, or who the opposition were, if it was a Collingwood legend who was being sent off like Charlie Sutton was for us, 50,000 pies nuffies would've been out in force.

Which gets back to some of the larger issues at play, that others here have mentioned, concerning a disconnect between the club and its fanbase, and how we have a weak 'tribal' culture that we somehow have to find a way to address.

I would suggest, as a starting point, the club not patronise its members, like it did, by announcing at the end of last season when appointing a new coach that we need a 'refresh', not a rebuild. I think it was clear to most Dogs members we were in for a rough season, probably a rough few seasons. Pronouncing otherwise to the footy public in my opinion says my club doesn't think its supporters are very smart. It also sets the club up for a backlash by those supporters who did believe them, when we dish up performances like we did on the weekend several times.

When we come up against the bigger clubs over the remaining rounds I think we will be even more drowned out by opposition supporters than usual.

[LostDoggy]

Our draw hasn't helped with matches so far against West Coast, Melbourne, GWS, North Melbourne, Gold Coast, Port Adelaide and Brisbane. The next 5 games will include Essendon, Hawthorn, Carlton and St. Kilda and providing our form improves should see bigger attendances against the stronger Melbourne based clubs.

Sorry but that's a load of bollocks.
We play those games every year.

[westdog54]

Sorry but that's a load of bollocks.
We play those games every year.

The stat provided is based on whole year attendances vs attendances to date though.

Its a valid point.

[GVGjr]

To be honest when I talk to Bulldogs supporters now it would appear that unless it's Saturday afternoon, we have a great chance to win and we are playing against a stronger Melbourne side people are looking for reasons not to go. They have been doing this for at least two years.

Some use the cold or wet conditions as a reason despite that we play so many games under the cover of Etihad.

We can blame the AFL, the rules committee, the draw, the new sides and the strength of the playing list etc all we like but a high number of our supporters have just lost their passion for a scrap. So many supporters just aren't as passionate about the club as they once were.

[Hotdog60]

To be honest when I talk to Bulldogs supporters now it would appear that unless it's Saturday afternoon, we have a great chance to win and we are playing against a stronger Melbourne side people are looking for reasons not to go. They have been doing this for at least two years.

Some use the cold or wet conditions as a reason despite that we play so many games under the cover of Etihad.

We can blame the AFL, the rules committee, the draw, the new sides and the strength of the playing list etc all we like but a high number of our supporters have just lost their passion for a scrap. So many supporters just aren't as passionate about the club as they once were.

That's because us older folk are made of sterner stuff. No roof over our heads as we sat freezing our nuts off at the WO for 3 games of football in the one day, then only to leave dejected with another loss. :)

[SonofScray]

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showpost.php?p=206024&postcount=18

Post I made last season. I think it is ringing true for many, there is some extra sting to this slip down the ladder. I had a more in depth version of it on BF but I can't find it. Basically, we've invested heavily in recent seasons as fans and the 'failure' to get the reward has us struggling to gear up for what, if we accept the 'success cycle' that is popular thought is going to be a long stretch. For potentially nothing to show for it again.

[SonofScray]

To be honest when I talk to Bulldogs supporters now it would appear that unless it's Saturday afternoon, we have a great chance to win and we are playing against a stronger Melbourne side people are looking for reasons not to go. They have been doing this for at least two years.

Some use the cold or wet conditions as a reason despite that we play so many games under the cover of Etihad.

We can blame the AFL, the rules committee, the draw, the new sides and the strength of the playing list etc all we like but a high number of our supporters have just lost their passion for a scrap. So many supporters just aren't as passionate about the club as they once were.

Good point. The follow up I have is, why are we not as passionate?

The Club has contributed to a real narrowing of what we think it is about. The stuff that shies away from our identity, that can be abrasive to the AFL our admin's desire to be seen as a slick organisation has a bit to answer for. We've been sold a false dream in some respects, that you tick certain boxes, get things working in an AFL endorsed way and the success comes as a matter of course.

The stuff we used to value was spat on, derided as loser history, poor culture etc. The W on the weekend and a flag was all that mattered.

Now we have nothing. Not wise.

We need to look at what C Grant said on Open Mike about what footy really is and reset our thinking, it is about people ad relationships and identity and all sorts of stuff that can be easily written off when we look through an analytical, business lens only.

[FrediKanoute]

Sorry but that's a load of bollocks.
We play those games every year.

Yeah, but if you have had all of those in H1, then it disproportionately affects the numbers. Have a look at the end of season figures and then jump up and down.

[LostDoggy]

Good point. The follow up I have is, why are we not as passionate?


Personally It's the game that is loosing me. Soft rule changes, 3 man interchange with a sub, defenders are barely allowed to defend, the players with the most possessions are gods to the media, Brownlows only go to midfielders, players so unprofessional they can no longer handle sledging cause it puts them off their game etc etc. everyone has their breaking point and I'm getting to mine.

[Remi Moses]

I'll be pissed if the club didn't budget for a fallout.

Nothing is more certain than crowds dropping off when you are going through a rough patch.

They'll be back up when we are playing finals again.

Spot on ! Have to face the fact we're a small market club and when we're struggling people drop off ( as they do with most clubs)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

When we come up against the bigger clubs over the remaining rounds I think we will be even more drowned out by opposition supporters than usual.

I'm going this week with a few Dons, and I fully expect to be one of about 500 Dogs fans there.

Our crowds have been really disappointing this season, regardless of who we have played. We have the most fickle supporters in the competition -- yes, our club could do more, but let's not forget that our supporters only ever turn up when we are a good side.

[Remi Moses]

I'm going this week with a few Dons, and I fully expect to be one of about 500 Dogs fans there.

Our crowds have been really disappointing this season, regardless of who we have played. We have the most fickle supporters in the competition -- yes, our club could do more, but let's not forget that our supporters only ever turn up when we are a good side.

Let's be honest TBB every club has fickle fans.
Even every sporting club has, and every club's had issues in this regard.
Hawthorn mid naughties had 11,000 to a game against Port.
North would be pushing up daisies now if they had our rubbish history!

[GVGjr]

Personally It's the game that is loosing me. Soft rule changes, 3 man interchange with a sub, defenders are barely allowed to defend, the players with the most possessions are gods to the media, Brownlows only go to midfielders, players so unprofessional they can no longer handle sledging cause it puts them off their game etc etc. everyone has their breaking point and I'm getting to mine.

I don't believe the majority of reasons you have outlined are a contributing factor. If a 3 man IC bench and a sub plus Brownlows going to midfielders is contributing to you being lost to the game then I'm sorry but that is just soft reasons.

[LostDoggy]

The stat provided is based on whole year attendances vs attendances to date though.

Its a valid point.

I dont have the figures but I bet the corresponding matches over the past 3 year tell a different story.
I doubt we got as low as 20K in the last Brisbane game at Etihad.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I don't believe the majority of reasons you have outlined are a contributing factor. If a 3 man IC bench and a sub plus Brownlows going to midfielders is contributing to you being lost to the game then I'm sorry but that is just soft reasons.

HM's post is still valid.

Not allowing defenders to defend, free kicks for being too rough and political correctness

[chef]

I dont have the figures but I bet the corresponding matches over the past 3 year tell a different story.
I doubt we got as low as 20K in the last Brisbane game at Etihad.

I remeber a game at the G, we would have got close to 40,000. That was 4-5 years ago.

[bornadog]

I'm going this week with a few Dons, and I fully expect to be one of about 500 Dogs fans there.

Our crowds have been really disappointing this season, regardless of who we have played. We have the most fickle supporters in the competition -- yes, our club could do more, but let's not forget that our supporters only ever turn up when we are a good side.

I am going this week but only because a mate who I have known for a long time is an Essendon supporter and I only see him a couple of times a year. I am really not looking forward to it if we are going to dish up the same as last weeks effort.

[Daughter of the West]

I am going this week but only because a mate who I have known for a long time is an Essendon supporter and I only see him a couple of times a year. I am really not looking forward to it if we are going to dish up the same as last weeks effort.

I think the perceived "effort" is a big part of it. Who wants to commit an afternoon/evening to watching a match where the Dogs just roll over and get completely belted? Sure, losing in a tight match is damn frustrating, but at least it gives you some hope. The drubbings that we've recently received where only one player (at best) has stood up and kept fighting just leaves you feeling depressed and apathetic. And then the apathy spreads to not even bothering to turn up.

And let's be honest, our supporters wouldn't be amongst the most finanically flush in the league. You've slogged it out all week at a job that you hate, and when your recreation time comes around, what do you want to do? Engage in something that makes you even more angry, frustrated and upset, or spend that money on something that might make your week a little rosier? Unfortunately, the dogs aren't providing that escape for us at the moment.

[Ghost Dog]

And let's be honest, our supporters wouldn't be amongst the most finanically flush in the league. You've slogged it out all week at a job that you hate, and when your recreation time comes around, what do you want to do? Engage in something that makes you even more angry, frustrated and upset, or spend that money on something that might make your week a little rosier? Unfortunately, the dogs aren't providing that escape for us at the moment.

Well put D.O.W.

[LostDoggy]

The stat provided is based on whole year attendances vs attendances to date though.

Its a valid point.

3000 down from the Brisbane and Saints games last year.
Yes a load of bollocks.

[Maddog37]

I think the perceived "effort" is a big part of it. Who wants to commit an afternoon/evening to watching a match where the Dogs just roll over and get completely belted? Sure, losing in a tight match is damn frustrating, but at least it gives you some hope. The drubbings that we've recently received where only one player (at best) has stood up and kept fighting just leaves you feeling depressed and apathetic. And then the apathy spreads to not even bothering to turn up.

And let's be honest, our supporters wouldn't be amongst the most finanically flush in the league. You've slogged it out all week at a job that you hate, and when your recreation time comes around, what do you want to do? Engage in something that makes you even more angry, frustrated and upset, or spend that money on something that might make your week a little rosier? Unfortunately, the dogs aren't providing that escape for us at the moment.

Nice post DOTW.

The number one thing for me in terms of losing interest is the lack of fight in the team when things go wrong. They hang their heads and don't chase etc etc. Why spend your leisure time trying to be passionate about a team that shows no passion?

Whilst we are ranting about negatives I am really starting to despise the celebrity nature of the journalists. They think they are the stars of the show. That chap Robinson keeps calling people weak and suggesting they are acting like dogs or doing dog acts if they show any sort of roughness in their game. He seems to think he is the moral arbitrator on all things football. Drives me nuts.

[LostDoggy]

I don't believe the majority of reasons you have outlined are a contributing factor. If a 3 man IC bench and a sub plus Brownlows going to midfielders is contributing to you being lost to the game then I'm sorry but that is just soft reasons.

Individually they are soft, I'll agree with you there. However for me it is death by a thousand cuts. I'm sure if I had the time I could put up tons of reasons why the game is slipping away from my interest, I just named a few before. Back in the day I use to watch any game I could. When I lived in Melbourne I even use to go to quite a few non Bulldog matches, but now I can barely watch a top 4 game on TV. If the Dogs where ever bumped out of the comp' that would be it for me at an AFL level interest.

The media is a big problem too. As I said 30 cheap possesions will dominate the headlines over 17 hard fought possesions. Brownlow votes are a midfield exclusive. If you compare brownlow votes between players like Boyd to Lake to Morris over the years, the contrast is a joke!