What happened to the Bulldogs?

[Grantysghost]

Dan Lonergan

It's time for Brendan McCartney to decide what direction he wants the Bulldogs to go in.
In the split round 13, this wonderful AFL season was again turned on its head with a number of upsets. Those results included North Melbourne, after weeks of indifferent form, beating a top four contender in Adelaide to be one of five teams on six wins and only out of the eight on percentage.

Another shock result in some circles was Brisbane, which started the round in 15th spot, demolishing at the Docklands the disappointing Western Bulldogs, who were 13th. I tipped the Lions but I was in the minority, even though they were close to full-strength with the return of the great Simon Black and another veteran Ash McGrath. Not only that, they were also celebrating the club's inaugural Hall of Fame inductions that night.

The Dogs on the other hand had lost Will Minson to a club suspension, which meant the Lions' hard-bodied ruckman Ben Hudson - a former Dog himself - would have a decided advantage against the Bulldogs' greenhorn ruckmen Jordan Roughead, Ayce Cordy and debutant Tom Campbell.

I believed Brisbane had more outside midfielders and would be too fast for the Bulldogs, who rely too much on inside mids and have gone from being one of the fastest sides in the league to in my opinion, one of the slowest. So I couldn't understand why hardly anyone had picked the Lions and that their odds to win were well over $3.

More http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-25/what-happened-to-the-bulldogs/4092002?section=sport

[Grantysghost]

Found this to refelect alot of my views on where we are at, especially around leg speed/outside run and spread and delivery inside 50. Good analysis without the sensationalist traits of other outlets.

[G-Mo77]

Sums it up pretty well doesn't he?

[Grantysghost]

Certainly does - tagging Griffen observation spot on. Without him we have no line breaking midfielders capable of delivering 50+m accurately by foot. Dalhaus has the speed without the penetration and maybe the tank at this point although he is potentially anything. As others have said something we definitely need at draft/trade time. I dont understand why Sherman isn't at least tried in this role, he certainly has the speed. Others may have the answer.

[Mantis]

Very good summation... I was going to start a thread asking the very question that Dan raised, 'What do we stand for?'.... I have no *!*!*!*!ing idea anymore.

About time a bit of heat came on us... It's going to be a very interesting last 10 rounds to see how we respond.

[The Pie Man]

Very good summation... I was going to start a thread asking the very question that Dan raised, 'What do we stand for?'.... I have no *!*!*!*!ing idea anymore.

About time a bit of heat came on us... It's going to be a very interesting last 10 rounds to see how we respond.

Discussing this very point with the family yesterday - we seem to be getting a free ride.....why? Is it because McCartney's a good bloke?

I'm with you Mantis, I'm inviting the heat at the moment - there's too many on-field issues going unresolved to let slide.

[G-Mo77]

Discussing this very point with the family yesterday - we seem to be getting a free ride.....why? Is it because McCartney's a good bloke?

I'm with you Mantis, I'm inviting the heat at the moment - there's too many on-field issues going unresolved to let slide.

I think we'll feel some heat soon enough. As Lonergan said in the article look at the next 10 rounds and see if you think a win will come out of those. Right now you'd pencil us in for 10 straight losses but realistically we'll pinch one or two out of those which is still very poor.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Well let's forget this nonsense about a 'refresh' at least.

It will never happen in a trillion billion years, but the AFL should consider giving us a 'discretionary' compensation pick.

We lost two of our good young running players to the expansion teams which really tore a gaping hole in our list, as well as losing a possible future captain.
Our only ever number 1 pick is crippled, which everyone can see is a tragedy for the club and the player.

[bornadog]

Whilst I agree with most of the direction Macca is taking, I don't agree that all players must get their own ball by contested possession. Macca has tried to change guys like Sherman to go in and get the ball yet he seems to forget you need outside runners once the inside mids have got the contested ball.

The other area that needs to be assessed is this obsession with kicking the ball long into the forward 50 with the hope of a big bloke marking it? Starting Jones, Cordy and Roughead deep in the forward 50 is not working. Against Port there were times when all three flew for the ball together, and one stage, Minson had also wondered down there, so four giants all went up for the mark. and when it dropped there was no one to mop up.

We need to have only two talls in the forward line, some pacey mid size forwards, and inject some pace with the objective of positioning themselves outside the pack and the ability to spread quickly and run the ball into the forward line with accurate passing.

Guys like, Sherman, Tutt, DJ all have pace and need to be considered.

[G-Mo77]

Tutt is probably one guy who would have played a significant amount of games this year had it not been for injury. Hopefully in the second half of the year we'll see how he goes at AFL level again.

DJ has played more games than expected and has been out injured as well in recent weeks. I'd expect him back this week.

Sherman's in the doghouse right now and while does fit our needs his form in the VFL is hardly setting the world on fire. I'd rather players earn their spots on the field, do we reward him because of past traits?

[Dazza]

This article sums up my thoughts perfectly.

[Mantis]

Tutt is probably one guy who would have played a significant amount of games this year had it not been for injury. Hopefully in the second half of the year we'll see how he goes at AFL level again.



I'm not so sure as I don't see Tutt being able to fill the coaches mantra that they all have to 'crack in'.

But we could sure do with someone who can run & kick.

[Scorlibo]

Sherman should be playing every week. In his first four games for the season he played exceptionally well and performed precisely the role we need as a running half-forward capable of crumbing. He then played two ordinary games in Darwin and coming back from Darwin and was dropped.

[G-Mo77]

I'm not so sure as I don't see Tutt being able to fill the coaches mantra that they all have to 'crack in'.

But we could sure do with someone who can run & kick.

I think he's got to soften his stance on that. As much as they're shouted at we need outsiders. I don't see the point in having Tutt or Sherman going in for the ball and feeding it to an outside Cross or Boyd. That being said if it's your time to go, you go.

Can we find a young Eagleton somewhere?

[Grantysghost]

Can we find a young Eagleton somewhere?

Fair point - how many guys do we have that can kick goals from outside 50? Griffen, Gilbee, Howard, Hargrave maybe Picken. Dayne Beams would be very handy indeed. Pipedream though as the pies never lose players.

[bornadog]

Fair point - how many guys do we have that can kick goals from outside 50? Griffen, Gilbee, Howard, Hargrave maybe Picken. Dayne Beams would be very handy indeed. Pipedream though as the pies never lose players.

I would love Dane Beams, is it worth throwing him some big dollars?

[LostDoggy]

I would love Dane Beams, is it worth throwing him some big dollars?

Haven't they already locked him up?

[Eastdog]

Travis Cloke would be good to have but we are no longer in the race in getting him. I think he will sign a new contract with Collingwood.

[Grantysghost]

Haven't they already locked him up?

No he's still unsigned and would command a significant amount more on his last 5-10 games than Collingwood would've budgeted for. I guess it all depends on the Cloke deal. If its even a outside chance I would hope we'd be having a crack.

[Axe Man]

No he's still unsigned and would command a significant amount more on his last 5-10 games than Collingwood would've budgeted for. I guess it all depends on the Cloke deal. If its even a outside chance I would hope we'd be having a crack.

I would definitely offer him some decent dollars, even if it simply drives up the contract he ends up signing at the Pies, it may just force one of their other players out.

[BulldogBelle]

I would definitely offer him some decent dollars, even if it simply drives up the contract he ends up signing at the Pies, it may just force one of their other players out.



When was the last time a 'required' player at Collingwood left to come to us?

Especially now given we arent far from being cellar dwellers

Good idea to drive up Clokes salary and hopefully another player will slip out once they reach their cap

[LostDoggy]

No he's still unsigned and would command a significant amount more on his last 5-10 games than Collingwood would've budgeted for. I guess it all depends on the Cloke deal. If its even a outside chance I would hope we'd be having a crack.


This is all true, he should be earning twice as much as he will recieve at collingwood next year.

But lets not forget Beams has had he's fair share of off field troubles, Collingwood have stuck by him when they could have easily de-listed him. He probably feels he owes the club so will stay.

[azabob]

This is all true, he should be earning twice as much as he will recieve at collingwood next year.

But lets not forget Beams has had he's fair share of off field troubles, Collingwood have stuck by him when they could have easily de-listed him. He probably feels he owes the club so will stay.

Players owe clubs nothing, we of all clubs know this. Clubs never delist players who can play. Wellingham is the perfect example when he was rookie listed and got caught moving a car whilst drunk and it cost Collingwood a sponser. They kept him only cause they saw the huge potential in him.

[LostDoggy]

Players owe clubs nothing, we of all clubs know this. Clubs never delist players who can play. Wellingham is the perfect example when he was rookie listed and got caught moving a car whilst drunk and it cost Collingwood a sponser. They kept him only cause they saw the huge potential in him.

They obviously didn't think too highly of Beams considering they left him out of a Grand Final.

[Remi Moses]

Agree with the article, but I also reckon a first year Coach gets cut some slack.
Need some games into Tutt, also have to realise if we get matched in contested we have to have an outlet.Players should also realise when it's time your time you go, and judging by our attendances the whole "Refresh" line has been a failure.

[FrediKanoute]

I actually think the article is a load of shit. Its easy to sit in a commentary position or as a supporter and take pot shots at a non-existent game plan, but its equally easy to forget just how outside we were in the last few years and how short that game plan came in terms of winning finals football. Winning the constested footy has to be the basis on which our next flag tilt is based. The downhill skiers/outside runners will be added once the basic plan is instilled in the team as a non-negotiable.

The club spin on a refresh is just that this is a rebuild, but a rebuild from a solid base. The well at the club is not bare. We have an exciting pipeline of young talent that needs time. This is not a Melbourne rebuild where the old guys have been thrown out and young guys asked to do too much. We are overendowed with inside players, because this is the focus we need to take, but also a reflection that in 1 or 2 years guys like Cross and Boyd will be gone. Today it is too soon to ask Wallis, Libba and Smith to take on the hard inside work mantle without support. They need help, but in a season or two their bodies will have hardened and they will be better for this season.

As for our forwards, yes its dysfunctional, yes we could go the option of a smaller more productive forward line, but did that win us a flag, when arguably in Johnno, Aker and Welsh we had three of the best small/med forwards in the game? No. All premiership sides in the last 10 years have had effective big blokes in their forward line around which the small/med work. It is a tall dominated model, not a small dominated model. We have 2 really good tall prospects in Jones and Cordy, they need time to develop. Maybe a season, maybe 2, but they will both be exceptional players.

As for the off field. This is where the club I think is failing. The fans aren't stupid, they know that after 5 or so seasons of exciting competitive footy and eventual heartbreak with elimination in 3 prelims that the next few years are going to be lean. The trick is to use that to your advantage. By failing to acknowledge a rebuild they have failed to grasp the opportunity of using the next generation to fuel excitement. In tough times the thing that brings people through the gate, that gets sponsors names in the paper and on TV are the development of young kids - and we have some beauties - Dahlhaus, Jones, Cordy, Wallis, Tutt, Howard, Libba and Smith are the next generation - this is what the club should be using to generate the next batch of supporters and maintain the excitement.

[anfo27]

I actually think the article is a load of shit. Its easy to sit in a commentary position or as a supporter and take pot shots at a non-existent game plan, but its equally easy to forget just how outside we were in the last few years and how short that game plan came in terms of winning finals football. Winning the constested footy has to be the basis on which our next flag tilt is based. The downhill skiers/outside runners will be added once the basic plan is instilled in the team as a non-negotiable.

The club spin on a refresh is just that this is a rebuild, but a rebuild from a solid base. The well at the club is not bare. We have an exciting pipeline of young talent that needs time. This is not a Melbourne rebuild where the old guys have been thrown out and young guys asked to do too much. We are overendowed with inside players, because this is the focus we need to take, but also a reflection that in 1 or 2 years guys like Cross and Boyd will be gone. Today it is too soon to ask Wallis, Libba and Smith to take on the hard inside work mantle without support. They need help, but in a season or two their bodies will have hardened and they will be better for this season.

As for our forwards, yes its dysfunctional, yes we could go the option of a smaller more productive forward line, but did that win us a flag, when arguably in Johnno, Aker and Welsh we had three of the best small/med forwards in the game? No. All premiership sides in the last 10 years have had effective big blokes in their forward line around which the small/med work. It is a tall dominated model, not a small dominated model. We have 2 really good tall prospects in Jones and Cordy, they need time to develop. Maybe a season, maybe 2, but they will both be exceptional players.

As for the off field. This is where the club I think is failing. The fans aren't stupid, they know that after 5 or so seasons of exciting competitive footy and eventual heartbreak with elimination in 3 prelims that the next few years are going to be lean. The trick is to use that to your advantage. By failing to acknowledge a rebuild they have failed to grasp the opportunity of using the next generation to fuel excitement. In tough times the thing that brings people through the gate, that gets sponsors names in the paper and on TV are the development of young kids - and we have some beauties - Dahlhaus, Jones, Cordy, Wallis, Tutt, Howard, Libba and Smith are the next generation - this is what the club should be using to generate the next batch of supporters and maintain the excitement.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought the article was a load of crap. Please Lonergan, I think macca knows more about football than your simplistic views.

[Hotdog60]

Moles seems to be the forgotten outside runner. I know his disposal can be ordinary but he has a bit of pace and could be that foil for Griffen.
Is his card marked or could he be a chance in the second half.

[Remi Moses]

Glad I'm not the only one who thought the article was a load of crap. Please Lonergan, I think macca knows more about football than your simplistic views.

So why should any of us offer an opinion?
Do we have to all fall in line? Sydney and Brisbane smashed us in uncontested ball, hence when we break even or get done in that aspect we get poleaxed!

[anfo27]

So why should any of us offer an opinion?
Do we have to all fall in line? Sydney and Brisbane smashed us in uncontested ball, hence when we break even or get done in that aspect we get poleaxed!

never mentioned anything about any posters opinions Remi. I just said I don't agree with Dan Lonergan. Its fine if you agree with him so why can't it be fine for me not to agree with him?

it would seem like a pretty boring forum if everyone agreed with everyone.

[Remi Moses]

never mentioned anything about any posters opinions Remi. I just said I don't agree with Dan Lonergan. Its fine if you agree with him so why can't it be fine for me not to agree with him?

it would seem like a pretty boring forum if everyone agreed with everyone.

It's okay to have differing opinions. Just reckon he has a valid arguement.

[anfo27]

It's okay to have differing opinions. Just reckon he has a valid arguement.

Yeah just about everyone does but i think his arguments are poor. He sounds more like a big footy poster than a professional football journalist.

[Grantysghost]

I actually think the article is a load of shit. Its easy to sit in a commentary position or as a supporter and take pot shots at a non-existent game plan, but its equally easy to forget just how outside we were in the last few years and how short that game plan came in terms of winning finals football. Winning the constested footy has to be the basis on which our next flag tilt is based. The downhill skiers/outside runners will be added once the basic plan is instilled in the team as a non-negotiable.


Wow - load of shit? Im suprised you feel that way. Before reading this article these were very similar to the views I had formulated myself this season and the first time I had seen them put forward in a questioning synopsis of the season thus far. As for being an outside team in the last few years we ranked second in contested possessions for both 2009 and 2010, about midtable in 2011. Sure we lacked a decent forward press as Rocket was slow to adapt in this area as we all know. This year we are ranked first. I agree that if we create a solid base of inside players first we can then complement them with some more outside types later, but I would like to see them come through together so hopefully we can snare some in the upcoming draft/trade period.

I guess for me the theme of the article was where exactly are we at? Whats the plan? I think its easy for a new coach to arrive and say right you guys are soft lets toughen you up, I recall Rocket doing the same. However being beaten by the Lions by 10 goals at home without firing a shot is unacceptable and questions should be asked.

[FrediKanoute]

Wow - load of shit? Im suprised you feel that way. Before reading this article these were very similar to the views I had formulated myself this season and the first time I had seen them put forward in a questioning synopsis of the season thus far. As for being an outside team in the last few years we ranked second in contested possessions for both 2009 and 2010, about midtable in 2011. Sure we lacked a decent forward press as Rocket was slow to adapt in this area as we all know. This year we are ranked first. I agree that if we create a solid base of inside players first we can then complement them with some more outside types later, but I would like to see them come through together so hopefully we can snare some in the upcoming draft/trade period.

I guess for me the theme of the article was where exactly are we at? Whats the plan? I think its easy for a new coach to arrive and say right you guys are soft lets toughen you up, I recall Rocket doing the same. However being beaten by the Lions by 10 goals at home without firing a shot is unacceptable and questions should be asked.

We are rebuilding. We have a group of young players who are "Hot Prospects" and in some cases are beginning to showcase their talents. We have a group of ageing stars who have 150+ games of experience, have played finals, but who slowly, but surely are losing their ability to offset the deficiencies of the young guys.

We have a coach who has a strategy, which by definition is a long term plan, which means more than a couple of weeks. The LTP is centred around strong at the contest football. Because that basis is so central to the strategy, the coach has determined that all other aspects of the game will be sacrificed so that the team collectively win the contested ball as if it was a reflex/second nature. Once this is in place, other bits can be added to the game plan.

I bet that McCartney on Saturday was chuffed that the concept of winning the contested ball was so ingrained in the guys that they didn't waiver from winning it despite it not delivering the results. That is a sign that the message and the strategy is taking hold. No its not going to win games this year. yes we are going to have to endure games where it appears as though we don't fire a shot, but once embedded, a contested ball mentality will mean that the foundation of the strategy is in place.

I maintain that the article is a load of shit, because it fails to grasp the strategic element to what Macca is doing. he's not building a game plan which with play finals footy this year (seeing us scrape into the 8 and "over achieve", rather he's taking a much tougher option and building the foundations of a dynasty. Rome wasn't built overnight and funny enough neither was Geelong. We are 13 games into a season of change, it will get worse before it gets better, but it will get better.

There are things wrong with the footy club, but I don't think they are in the football department. I think the real problems the club has are elsewhere from Board level, to membership, to marketing/PR. You can say we are rebuilding and use it as an excuse for bad performances, or you can say we are rebuilding and use it as an opportunity to showcase the next generation of bulldog champions. The club has missed an opportunity.

[FrediKanoute]

So why should any of us offer an opinion?
Do we have to all fall in line? Sydney and Brisbane smashed us in uncontested ball, hence when we break even or get done in that aspect we get poleaxed!

I think the great thing about Woof is that we can all have differing opinions and air them. My take, tactically we were beaten, but strategically the guys did what the coach wants them to do.......win the contested ball. You can't deny that winning the contested ball didn't work against NM, Melbourne or the new sides. You can't deny that it almost worked against the Cats, Pies, WCE and Adelaide? So it hasn't worked in 3 games? %'s suggest that it is strategically the right approach to take.

[bornadog]

Interseting listening to Murphy on AFL 360 when Robbo asked him about winning contested balls and clearances and still losing. Bob said, there are clearances and there are clearances.

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks for posting this GG and some really good comments in this thread. The two standouts for me are;

"What do we stand for?" and " A huge challenge lies ahead".
I disagree that the brand of footy we have been playing is that bad to watch. It's not 'ugly' footy.
However, our blokes simply have to understand. For a struggling club like ours, one win is almost worth two for us - compared to clubs that are better off. We simply must compete, and our fans will stand by us if they see us keep at it, right to the line.

Huge bags kicked on us are heart breaking and the absolute worst thing for me is seeing valued fans, like Lantern, just walk away in disgust. It's time for a younger generation to take the reins and our marketing and decision making has to reflect that.
The thing that heartens me is I see a lot of kids at Bulldogs games.

[The Underdog]

We are rebuilding. We have a group of young players who are "Hot Prospects" and in some cases are beginning to showcase their talents. We have a group of ageing stars who have 150+ games of experience, have played finals, but who slowly, but surely are losing their ability to offset the deficiencies of the young guys.



I'm not sure I agree we have a group of "Hot Prospects". We definitely have some kids with promise but I'm not sure the upside in this group as it is is going to be the kind that will lead us back to top 4 without some further astute recruiting. This year's draft and trade period is going to be crucial to where we go in the next few years.

[Desipura]

Interseting listening to Murphy on AFL 360 when Robbo asked him about winning contested balls and clearances and still losing. Bob said, there are clearances and there are clearances.


And that is why you cannot take stats on face value.
You can win the clearances and kicking it forward to the opposition or you can win the clearances and run and carry and deliver it lace out to a forward.

[Grantysghost]

And that is why you cannot take stats on face value.
You can win the clearances and kicking it forward to the opposition or you can win the clearances and run and carry and deliver it lace out to a forward.

Maybe we need an effective clearances stat?

[Mantis]

Maybe we need an effective clearances stat?

Last night they showed the top 3 on AFL Insider for effective clearances for and against.

We were 17th for effective clearances against menaing we aren't all that good at denying the opposition easy passage away from the clearance area when they win the ball.

[Doc26]

Last night they showed the top 3 on AFL Insider for effective clearances for and against.

We were 17th for effective clearances against menaing we aren't all that good at denying the opposition easy passage away from the clearance area when they win the ball.

Ahh that old chestnut. After Griffen, we're very ordinary on the spread from stoppages going forward with effectiveness and even worse with our accountability going back the other way. It's just as well we are so good at contesting and 'cracking in' on the inside :rolleyes:. Oh for a Beams and Sidebottom right now.

[Desipura]

Ahh that old chestnut. After Griffen, we're very ordinary on the spread from stoppages going forward with effectiveness and even worse with our accountability going back the other way. It's just as well we are so good at contesting and 'cracking in' on the inside :rolleyes:. Oh for a Beams and Sidebottom right now.

Its obvious isnt it? We have a number of the same type slow midfielders with average skills who can win the clearances however do not have the leg speed to run and carry and deliver it to our advantage.
The lack of leg speed also enables the opposition to spread with virtually no pressure.

[boydogs]

Lol, apparently Melbourne and Gold Coast are ahead of us, with a combined 2 wins for the year. Our kids have taken us to 5 wins, but apparently they're worse.

[w3design]

Beyond a shadow of a doubt we need outside run and carry, plus leg speed, and we need it in spades.

We do have players with some pace in the squad.
Unfortunately that of itself is not enough. What we need is pace, but coupled with SKILL, talent, vision and daring.

What we need are at the very least, two [ or maybe ] three Griffins/Coons [ circa 2008] added to our line-up.

Pace on its own will not be, is not, sufficient, it must be coupled with class.

The future depends on the right options being taken during the upcoming trade and draft periods.

[LostDoggy]

I actually think the article is a load of shit. Its easy to sit in a commentary position or as a supporter and take pot shots at a non-existent game plan, but its equally easy to forget just how outside we were in the last few years and how short that game plan came in terms of winning finals football. Winning the constested footy has to be the basis on which our next flag tilt is based. The downhill skiers/outside runners will be added once the basic plan is instilled in the team as a non-negotiable.

The club spin on a refresh is just that this is a rebuild, but a rebuild from a solid base. The well at the club is not bare. We have an exciting pipeline of young talent that needs time. This is not a Melbourne rebuild where the old guys have been thrown out and young guys asked to do too much. We are overendowed with inside players, because this is the focus we need to take, but also a reflection that in 1 or 2 years guys like Cross and Boyd will be gone. Today it is too soon to ask Wallis, Libba and Smith to take on the hard inside work mantle without support. They need help, but in a season or two their bodies will have hardened and they will be better for this season.

As for our forwards, yes its dysfunctional, yes we could go the option of a smaller more productive forward line, but did that win us a flag, when arguably in Johnno, Aker and Welsh we had three of the best small/med forwards in the game? No. All premiership sides in the last 10 years have had effective big blokes in their forward line around which the small/med work. It is a tall dominated model, not a small dominated model. We have 2 really good tall prospects in Jones and Cordy, they need time to develop. Maybe a season, maybe 2, but they will both be exceptional players.

As for the off field. This is where the club I think is failing. The fans aren't stupid, they know that after 5 or so seasons of exciting competitive footy and eventual heartbreak with elimination in 3 prelims that the next few years are going to be lean. The trick is to use that to your advantage. By failing to acknowledge a rebuild they have failed to grasp the opportunity of using the next generation to fuel excitement. In tough times the thing that brings people through the gate, that gets sponsors names in the paper and on TV are the development of young kids - and we have some beauties - Dahlhaus, Jones, Cordy, Wallis, Tutt, Howard, Libba and Smith are the next generation - this is what the club should be using to generate the next batch of supporters and maintain the excitement.


We are rebuilding. We have a group of young players who are "Hot Prospects" and in some cases are beginning to showcase their talents. We have a group of ageing stars who have 150+ games of experience, have played finals, but who slowly, but surely are losing their ability to offset the deficiencies of the young guys.

We have a coach who has a strategy, which by definition is a long term plan, which means more than a couple of weeks. The LTP is centred around strong at the contest football. Because that basis is so central to the strategy, the coach has determined that all other aspects of the game will be sacrificed so that the team collectively win the contested ball as if it was a reflex/second nature. Once this is in place, other bits can be added to the game plan.

I bet that McCartney on Saturday was chuffed that the concept of winning the contested ball was so ingrained in the guys that they didn't waiver from winning it despite it not delivering the results. That is a sign that the message and the strategy is taking hold. No its not going to win games this year. yes we are going to have to endure games where it appears as though we don't fire a shot, but once embedded, a contested ball mentality will mean that the foundation of the strategy is in place.

I maintain that the article is a load of shit, because it fails to grasp the strategic element to what Macca is doing. he's not building a game plan which with play finals footy this year (seeing us scrape into the 8 and "over achieve", rather he's taking a much tougher option and building the foundations of a dynasty. Rome wasn't built overnight and funny enough neither was Geelong. We are 13 games into a season of change, it will get worse before it gets better, but it will get better.

There are things wrong with the footy club, but I don't think they are in the football department. I think the real problems the club has are elsewhere from Board level, to membership, to marketing/PR. You can say we are rebuilding and use it as an excuse for bad performances, or you can say we are rebuilding and use it as an opportunity to showcase the next generation of bulldog champions. The club has missed an opportunity.

A fantastic post, responded to and rebutted with yet another fantastic post. I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I can see why you're getting shot down. You can't defend a coach once the knives are out.

Your comment about it being a load of shit was spot on the mark. Any opinion on our game plan based on us playing finals at the moment is a load of shit, pure and simple. You walk before you run.


Thanks for posting this GG and some really good comments in this thread. The two standouts for me are;

"What do we stand for?" and " A huge challenge lies ahead".
I disagree that the brand of footy we have been playing is that bad to watch. It's not 'ugly' footy.
However, our blokes simply have to understand. For a struggling club like ours, one win is almost worth two for us - compared to clubs that are better off. We simply must compete, and our fans will stand by us if they see us keep at it, right to the line.

Huge bags kicked on us are heart breaking and the absolute worst thing for me is seeing valued fans, like Lantern, just walk away in disgust. It's time for a younger generation to take the reins and our marketing and decision making has to reflect that.
The thing that heartens me is I see a lot of kids at Bulldogs games.

I've said this before, but for me, this year more than any other, I'm getting really annoyed at the Bulldogs fans. Let them walk away. I'm sick of watching the club take the easy option to appease idiots, forsaking a strong long term strategy because the fans just won't come to the party no matter what we do. We were struggling as hard for members in 2009 as we are now. We need to build a base, and work from there. Every “fan” that tells me they're waiting until we win a flag before they sign up, well, let's just say the look of total disgust and disregard I give them probably doesn't make me many friends, but I'm just sick and tired of hearing the same old shit from “observers”, people who, like me, have never stood on the line and had a go at it themselves. I would consider that I have absolutely no right to ask Smorgon to stand down, as I couldn't do his job to save my life. Same goes for Macca. Same goes for every player out there.

(I'm not calling Lantern an idiot at all, by the way. Actually I'm quite surprised at hearing that.)

Come to the footy to support your team. Not to see them win.

[Dancin' Douggy]

A fantastic post, responded to and rebutted with yet another fantastic post. I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I can see why you're getting shot down. You can't defend a coach once the knives are out.

Your comment about it being a load of shit was spot on the mark. Any opinion on our game plan based on us playing finals at the moment is a load of shit, pure and simple. You walk before you run.



I've said this before, but for me, this year more than any other, I'm getting really annoyed at the Bulldogs fans. Let them walk away. I'm sick of watching the club take the easy option to appease idiots, forsaking a strong long term strategy because the fans just won't come to the party no matter what we do. We were struggling as hard for members in 2009 as we are now. We need to build a base, and work from there. Every “fan” that tells me they're waiting until we win a flag before they sign up, well, let's just say the look of total disgust and disregard I give them probably doesn't make me many friends, but I'm just sick and tired of hearing the same old shit from “observers”, people who, like me, have never stood on the line and had a go at it themselves. I would consider that I have absolutely no right to ask Smorgon to stand down, as I couldn't do his job to save my life. Same goes for Macca. Same goes for every player out there.

(I'm not calling Lantern an idiot at all, by the way. Actually I'm quite surprised at hearing that.)

Come to the footy to support your team. Not to see them win.

I'm right behind you. I buy a membership for me and my kids every year without thinking.
I told my kids we were in for a bad year and explained to them why. We go to the footy and if we lose they're not upset, they're disappointed.
They understand it's only a chapter in a long story.
If they saw a movie where only good things happens, and there's no challenges or battles it's a boring story. I, and my kids embrace the ride, I'm not selling them fairy floss, I'm giving them a good square meal, with HEAPS of fibre.
We played in 3 consecutive preliminary finals.
We had our window. We missed it.
Time to rebuild.
It's not a disaster, it's just the changing of the seasons.

I agree with what Chris Grant said, footy is about more than premierships.
When you support the Dogs it's more about family, community, loyalty and heart.

That's what sustains us.

I for one would hate to see the club trade for players and maintain a game plan that keeps us permanently competitive and mid table.
I'm prepared to take the pain and re build and then really enjoy the ride.
The roller coaster is more fun than the puffing billy. The puffing billy Grinds along, it's Reliable, makes lots of smoke and noise but when you're on it, the novelty wears pretty thin very quickly.

[AndrewP6]

I'm right behind you. I buy a membership for me and my kids every year without thinking.
I told my kids we were in for a bad year and explained to them why. We go to the footy and if we lose they're not upset, they're disappointed.
They understand it's only a chapter in a long story.
If they saw a movie where only good things happens, and there's no challenges or battles it's a boring story. I, and my kids embrace the ride, I'm not selling them fairy floss, I'm giving them a good square meal, with HEAPS of fibre.
We played in 3 consecutive preliminary finals.
We had our window. We missed it.
Time to rebuild.
It's not a disaster, it's just the changing of the seasons.

I agree with what Chris Grant said, footy is about more than premierships.
When you support the Dogs it's more about family, community, loyalty and heart.

That's what sustains us.

I for one would hate to see the club trade for players and maintain a game plan that keeps us permanently competitive and mid table.
I'm prepared to take the pain and re build and then really enjoy the ride.
The roller coaster is more fun than the puffing billy. The puffing billy Grinds along, it's Reliable, makes lots of smoke and noise but when you're on it, the novelty wears pretty thin very quickly.

But the roller coaster has the tendency to make you violently ill. ;)

[Dancin' Douggy]

Sure does.

[jeemak]

I tend not to place much value in what gets said about our club in the media when it comes to game plans and long term strategy.
Dan’s article is no different to any other article I read on a weekly basis. Basic truths, short term comments about strategy and ill-considered remedial actions to all of our woes seem to be a common thread within each of them.

What I will say is that our current “cracking in” strategy is clearly not going to win us many more games this year, on its own merits. Though, what has been misconstrued within the media since its conception is that all we will have to offer on a long term basis is “cracking in” and nothing else. It’s not that I’m a Macca fan, or a Western Bulldogs fanboy that allows me to determine this. Rather, I’m a reasonable person and I understand that the people involved with our football club, irrespective of their shortcomings, are not as naive as they have been presented to be within the media.

The “cracking in” strategy isn’t just about winning contested ball from a team perspective. Instead, it’s about being confident that each and every person within the team is capable of winning the ball, or at least providing a neutral contest when their time comes throughout the course of the game. Irrespective of our previous years tallies in contested ball count (which, after Rocket’s initial years was nothing to sneeze at) our current coach wants it to form the basis of our game plan moving forward. We as fans have to cop that, and allow him to instil it in to our playing group on his terms.

The real test will come in 2013, once he’s had some time to add to the foundations that are supposed to be built this year. We’re going to see a lot of commentary coming from all quarters within the media from this point on, about our “sub-standard” performances, and we’re just going to have to deal with it. It’s something every rebuilding team has to deal with.

As others have said we need to draft well this year to develop our list to supplement the ongoing game plan. Irrespective of what gets put forward by media hacks I’m prepared to wait and see it happen before me. Like many of you, I’m smart enough to know that four or five years or so building towards a tilt doesn’t come cheaply with respect to performance for a club like ours. Or any club for that matter, just wait and see.

[Ghost Dog]

I tend not to place much value in what gets said about our club in the media when it comes to game plans and long term strategy.
Dan’s article is no different to any other article I read on a weekly basis. Basic truths, short term comments about strategy and ill-considered remedial actions to all of our woes seem to be a common thread within each of them.

What I will say is that our current “cracking in” strategy is clearly not going to win us many more games this year, on its own merits. Though, what has been misconstrued within the media since its conception is that all we will have to offer on a long term basis is “cracking in” and nothing else. It’s not that I’m a Macca fan, or a Western Bulldogs fanboy that allows me to determine this. Rather, I’m a reasonable person and I understand that the people involved with our football club, irrespective of their shortcomings, are not as naive as they have been presented to be within the media.

The “cracking in” strategy isn’t just about winning contested ball from a team perspective. Instead, it’s about being confident that each and every person within the team is capable of winning the ball, or at least providing a neutral contest when their time comes throughout the course of the game. Irrespective of our previous years tallies in contested ball count (which, after Rocket’s initial years was nothing to sneeze at) our current coach wants it to form the basis of our game plan moving forward. We as fans have to cop that, and allow him to instil it in to our playing group on his terms.

The real test will come in 2013, once he’s had some time to add to the foundations that are supposed to be built this year. We’re going to see a lot of commentary coming from all quarters within the media from this point on, about our “sub-standard” performances, and we’re just going to have to deal with it. It’s something every rebuilding team has to deal with.

As others have said we need to draft well this year to develop our list to supplement the ongoing game plan. Irrespective of what gets put forward by media hacks I’m prepared to wait and see it happen before me. Like many of you, I’m smart enough to know that four or five years or so building towards a tilt doesn’t come cheaply with respect to performance for a club like ours. Or any club for that matter, just wait and see.


If cracking in was teamed with even a measure of flow, would be fine. But the chain links are broken and I don't think you can blame cracking in. It's called football for a reason. Foot skills reign supreme.

[Remi Moses]

I'm right behind you. I buy a membership for me and my kids every year without thinking.
I told my kids we were in for a bad year and explained to them why. We go to the footy and if we lose they're not upset, they're disappointed.
They understand it's only a chapter in a long story.
If they saw a movie where only good things happens, and there's no challenges or battles it's a boring story. I, and my kids embrace the ride, I'm not selling them fairy floss, I'm giving them a good square meal, with HEAPS of fibre.
We played in 3 consecutive preliminary finals.
We had our window. We missed it.
Time to rebuild.
It's not a disaster, it's just the changing of the seasons.

I agree with what Chris Grant said, footy is about more than premierships.
When you support the Dogs it's more about family, community, loyalty and heart.

That's what sustains us.

I for one would hate to see the club trade for players and maintain a game plan that keeps us permanently competitive and mid table.
I'm prepared to take the pain and re build and then really enjoy the ride.
The roller coaster is more fun than the puffing billy. The puffing billy Grinds along, it's Reliable, makes lots of smoke and noise but when you're on it, the novelty wears pretty thin very quickly.
Well thought out, we have to bunker down in the next 12 months for the inevitable calling for our club to be either moved or disbanded. We had a couple of shots in the locker and fell short and now it's time to rebuild.

[Mantis]

I've said this before, but for me, this year more than any other, I'm getting really annoyed at the Bulldogs fans. Let them walk away. I'm sick of watching the club take the easy option to appease idiots, forsaking a strong long term strategy because the fans just won't come to the party no matter what we do. We were struggling as hard for members in 2009 as we are now. We need to build a base, and work from there. Every “fan” that tells me they're waiting until we win a flag before they sign up, well, let's just say the look of total disgust and disregard I give them probably doesn't make me many friends, but I'm just sick and tired of hearing the same old shit from “observers”, people who, like me, have never stood on the line and had a go at it themselves. I would consider that I have absolutely no right to ask Smorgon to stand down, as I couldn't do his job to save my life. Same goes for Macca. Same goes for every player out there.

(I'm not calling Lantern an idiot at all, by the way. Actually I'm quite surprised at hearing that.)

Come to the footy to support your team. Not to see them win.

So why should I as a long time paying member of the club be subjected to being treated as a fool by our president?

The most poignant statement through the entire process of replacing the coach at the end of last year was that, ' We are going through a refresh and not a rebuild'.... What a load of shit!!! Be truthful with your members and the footy public and communicate that a rough patch could be a head, but we will ride it out and climb back up the ladder... but this statement was a lie and the respect I have for him will never be the same.

[Maddog37]

Mantis he was only doing what he thought was best for the club though. I do not respect him any less but I think he has opened himself up for questions on his judgement. I think he misjudged the state of the list. He is not the first and won't be the last.

[LostDoggy]

Mantis he was only doing what he thought was best for the club though. I do not respect him any less but I think he has opened himself up for questions on his judgement. I think he misjudged the state of the list. He is not the first and won't be the last.

Best thing for the club was to lie to the members?
Who is he to judge the state of the list? He is President not the Coach or the List manager.

[Maddog37]

Read what I said Chops. He made a statement based on his judgement of the list which he thought was accurate. He told what he thought was the truth. His fault was being too optimistic.

Why jump to the conclusion that he lied?

[Mantis]

Mantis he was only doing what he thought was best for the club though. I do not respect him any less but I think he has opened himself up for questions on his judgement. I think he misjudged the state of the list. He is not the first and won't be the last.

As the head of the club he shouldn't be making promises he cannot keep.

He of course needs to be across all parts of the club, but most importantly he needs to know how our team & list are placed or at least have staff under him feeding him correct information... While a few people, including some well resepected posters on here were bullish about our upcoming prospects the general consensus was that we were in for some pain, to make the statement he did, with the confidence he did was negligent within his duties.

[LostDoggy]

Read what I said Chops. He made a statement based on his judgement of the list which he thought was accurate. He told what he thought was the truth. His fault was being too optimistic.

Why jump to the conclusion that he lied?

And read what I wrote too.
Is he the list manager or coach now?

Why defend him when it obvious it was BS.

[jeemak]

If cracking in was teamed with even a measure of flow, would be fine. But the chain links are broken and I don't think you can blame cracking in. It's called football for a reason. Foot skills reign supreme.

Agreed. Unfortunately we barely have a player with decent foot skills.

Layers need to be added, no doubt, but that takes time and cattle.

[Maddog37]

And read what I wrote too.
Is he the list manager or coach now?

Why defend him when it obvious it was BS.

He is the president and was at a press conference. He was putting some spin on the Rocket sacking. It just seems harsh calling him a liar to me.

[Bulldog4life]

So why should I as a long time paying member of the club be subjected to being treated as a fool by our president?

The most poignant statement through the entire process of replacing the coach at the end of last year was that, ' We are going through a refresh and not a rebuild'.... What a load of shit!!! Be truthful with your members and the footy public and communicate that a rough patch could be a head, but we will ride it out and climb back up the ladder... but this statement was a lie and the respect I have for him will never be the same.

This is not just for you Mantis but for all the people who have a gripe. Go to the AGM. I've been to the last 4 and very few members get up to ask questions of the Board when they are invited to do so. So don't hide behind your computers guys to complain; as John Kennedy would say, 'do" something about it face to face with the Board. Be interested to know who does as I'll be there for the next one too.

[Mantis]

Agreed. Unfortunately we barely have a player with decent foot skills.



When was the last time we drafted a regular member of our team who is a better than average kick?

Almost need to go back to Higgins who has a nice action, but he isn't really an elite kick.

[Twodogs]

When was the last time we drafted a regular member of our team who was better than average kick?

Almost need to go back to Higgins who has a nice action, but he isn't really an elite kick.


Ryan Griffin for mine.

[LostDoggy]

He is the president and was at a press conference. He was putting some spin on the Rocket sacking. It just seems harsh calling him a liar to me.

Ok not liar just a bulldust artist.

[jeemak]

When was the last time we drafted a regular member of our team who was better than average kick?

Almost need to go back to Higgins who has a nice action, but he isn't really an elite kick.

I think Howard will turn out to be, though I take your point. Hopefully Tutt has a decent run at some senior football soon.

Higgins is a little hit and miss with his kicking, as is Griff. It's a pretty crap state of affairs at the moment.

[LostDoggy]

So when the club plays the meek and understated card we're weakling losers with a poor culture and don't know how to win, but when we puff out the chest and show a bit of arrogance we're negligent in our duties? Can't have it both ways. The point of my post was really that none of us are prepared to stand up and do it better, so who are we to knock em?

[Maddog37]

Ok not liar just a bulldust artist.

That I can agree with.

Most footy people seem to be that way when a microphone is in the vicinity unfortunately.

[LostDoggy]

That I can agree with.

Most footy people seem to be that way when a microphone is in the vicinity unfortunately.

The difference is he did to his own members.

[LostDoggy]

So when the club plays the meek and understated card we're weakling losers with a poor culture and don't know how to win, but when we puff out the chest and show a bit of arrogance we're negligent in our duties? Can't have it both ways. The point of my post was really that none of us are prepared to stand up and do it better, so who are we to knock em?
No problem having arrogance but when you cant walk the walk you are rightly criticized.
You get knocked down when it's proved wrong.

[bornadog]

That I can agree with.

Most footy people seem to be that way when a microphone is in the vicinity unfortunately.


The difference is he did to his own members.

The president also has to be political in what he says so that he doesn't put off people from renewing their memberships. Our supporters are so fickle.

[FrediKanoute]

But the roller coaster has the tendency to make you violently ill. ;)

and that's why you keep coming back for more.....I liken supporting the bulldogs to my golf game.....moments of genius interrupting long periods of frustration......that though is the reason I keep playing golf!

[FrediKanoute]

So why should I as a long time paying member of the club be subjected to being treated as a fool by our president?

Because you, like the rest of us are members of the Bulldog tribe. No matter how bad they do, how many times they disappoint, how much frustration they dish up, how many good players they lose and coaches you like they sack you will remain a member of the tribe.

Take it from me I escape to Brisbane and then London this website is still the first one I check to see if there is any snippet of new information re the Bulldogs. At the end of the day all supporters re fools, its just a matter of accepting that and moving on and enjoying being part of it.......lets face it, the highs as a Bulldogs fan are immense!

[FrediKanoute]

Best thing for the club was to lie to the members?
Who is he to judge the state of the list? He is President not the Coach or the List manager.

Lie? Its only a lie if you believed it. It was spin. Spin for the media. I would suggest that most here didn't believe it.

[FrediKanoute]

As the head of the club he shouldn't be making promises he cannot keep.

He of course needs to be across all parts of the club, but most importantly he needs to know how our team & list are placed or at least have staff under him feeding him correct information... While a few people, including some well resepected posters on here were bullish about our upcoming prospects the general consensus was that we were in for some pain, to make the statement he did, with the confidence he did was negligent within his duties.

I think the opposite. I think its his job to make promises he can't keep. The trick though is to cover them/smother them and spin them in a way so that the outcome is positive. If Smorgon has failed and I believe he has it is on the latter.....I've said it before, but I'll keep saying it, the club missed a real opportunity to present the refresh (rebuild, regeneration, reenergisation, re (insert word)) in a positive way......if he was negligent that he was negligent of doing this.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think the opposite. I think its his job to make promises he can't keep. The trick though is to cover them/smother them and spin them in a way so that the outcome is positive. If Smorgon has failed and I believe he has it is on the latter.....I've said it before, but I'll keep saying it, the club missed a real opportunity to present the refresh (rebuild, regeneration, reenergisation, re (insert word)) in a positive way......if he was negligent that he was negligent of doing this.

It's hardly a hangable offence.

[AndrewP6]

and that's why you keep coming back for more.....I liken supporting the bulldogs to my golf game.....moments of genius interrupting long periods of frustration......that though is the reason I keep playing golf!

Not me, I hate the things!

[azabob]

The president also has to be political in what he says so that he doesn't put off people from renewing their memberships. Our supporters are so fickle.

Agree supporters are fickle, but do the fickle ones wait to see how we perform anyway?

[Grantysghost]

Because you, like the rest of us are members of the Bulldog tribe. No matter how bad they do, how many times they disappoint, how much frustration they dish up, how many good players they lose and coaches you like they sack you will remain a member of the tribe.



So true - 30 years member me and will never stop going while I'm able. Shame not all of our supporters are as loyal as the woofers.
Surely If we can sit through two years of Peter Rohde we can sit through anything people!

Having said that I do believe raising questions on our direction is a healthy and functional part of being a member of the club. I dont feel Smorgon lied to us with the refresh line, I believe it was a clever way of saying we're in for some tough times. I think three years as cellar dwellars is about right. I keep whinging to my friends about 2005. If we had of stayed down another year to make it three down the bottom, we may have snatched a Pendlebury or Murphy! Cooney, Griffen, Pendlebury in 2009/10 may have been a different story..oh to dream. Time will come soon enough to begin dreaming again....

[SonofScray]

The point of my post was really that none of us are prepared to stand up and do it better, so who are we to knock em?

No one is above feedback. I disagree with the idea that you have to have a level of expertise to give it. The Club doesn't have to accept it or act on it, but fans have every right to discuss it, present observations and to want better. It is important to have an element of dissent within any group, someone has to play devil's advocate.

I know you aren't taking the extreme view here but it isn't a great outcome if the type of conditions you are putting on feedback and dissent become the norm. Its disempowering.

If I don't like something, I'll say it. In as many channels as I need to. Noone would want their Club to be worse off, all feedback from members at its heart is an attempt to improve our position.

[Sedat]

Agreed. Unfortunately we barely have a player with decent foot skills.

Layers need to be added, no doubt, but that takes time and cattle.
So then why was the senior coach the only casualty in our footy dept last season if our list management stunk and our recuiting was poor? Surely the head of football operations and the recuiter would have and should have been held into account.

[chef]

So then why was the senior coach the only casualty in our footy dept last season if our list management stunk and our recuiting was poor? Surely the head of football operations and the recuiter would have and should have been held into account.

He's doing his wonderful work at the GC now.

[LostDoggy]

The president also has to be political in what he says so that he doesn't put off people from renewing their memberships. Our supporters are so fickle.

Again, it all comes down to the club being forced to make shorter term decisions. Essendon or Collingwood, on the other hand, can afford to take the time to do it right. If the supporters can get behind the club and say, “We want you to make damned sure you're doing the right thing, and are on the right track, and stand up for what is right for us when wheeling and dealing, etc. but we are prepared to wait, so PLEASE plan for the future” then we'd be in a much better position. But instead, fans everywhere are calling for heads to roll. It's premature, and it's that mentality, rather than some mythical “losing culture” amongst the coaching and playing group, that keeps us from ever getting close to a premiership.


No one is above feedback. I disagree with the idea that you have to have a level of expertise to give it. The Club doesn't have to accept it or act on it, but fans have every right to discuss it, present observations and to want better. It is important to have an element of dissent within any group, someone has to play devil's advocate.

I know you aren't taking the extreme view here but it isn't a great outcome if the type of conditions you are putting on feedback and dissent become the norm. Its disempowering.

If I don't like something, I'll say it. In as many channels as I need to. Noone would want their Club to be worse off, all feedback from members at its heart is an attempt to improve our position.

I get what you mean, about it being disempowering, and on that I'll concede some ground. I don't want them not to listen to the fans. I just want the fans to have some measure of perspective when ranting and raving about sacking the president.

One of my favourite sayings is, “You have the right to an opinion, but the responsibility to ensure you've educated that opinion” if you want to be taken seriously.

I have no doubt in my mind that the club views many of its fans as a feral, uneducated mass. We are to blame for that as much as the club.