Bankers and Anchors - Round 14

[westdog54]

This is the round 14 edition of the Weekly Bankers and Anchors Thread. Once the game against Essendon is concluded post your nominations for:

The Bankers = 3 guys that you we banked on to do the right thing during the game
The Anchors = 3 guys that weighed us down by their errors or poor play

Please limit it to no more than three of each, but feel free to make honourable/dishonourable mentions. As usual try to make it constructive criticism.

The thread is named in honour of a popular WOOF Contributor, The Banker, who passed away (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=10557)on 22/04/2012 after a six month battle with cancer.

[LostDoggy]

1st Banker is 7mate Brisbane for showing a Saturday night Melbourne game.

[Rance Fan]

Bankers

Too few again to choose

Minson
Libba
Dahl

Anchors

Most of the others!
The future of the team is a worry..
Sherman
Roughead
Jones
Howard
Addison

And the senior leaders are ordinary
Lake
Boyd
and so on

Over it! Night!

[The Underdog]

Bankers:
Lukey Dahlhaus - Hands down our best player. Gave non stop effort and never gave up on trying to win the ball back.
Clay Smith -Slow start but worked his way into it. Excellent 3rd quarter.
Will Minson - Came back with a strong effort and looked our most dangerous tall up forward

Anchors:
Justin Sherman - For a guy as important as he could be to us his game was really poor
Christian Howard - Some seriously non competitive efforts at times
Coaching staff - Roughhead as a sub. You've got to be *!*!*!*!ing kidding me. That's amateur stuff and I wouldn't rule it out as a factor in our fade out at the finish. Oh and if I hear the words teaching or development in another commentary of one of our games this year I'll spew up. It's an easy narrative that doesn't really apply to a good percentage of our team.

[Ghost Dog]

Bankers: four straight goals that lifted our confidence - for a while
McCartney - for actually firing up and giving the players some 'strong feedback'.

Anchors: Our spread, kicking ability and lack of pressure.
Saw a few blokes giving each other a spray on the ground for various things. A bad sign.

[LostDoggy]

Bank:
Libba
Dahl
Jobe Watson, (I turned on to watch the Dogs, I left it on to watch Jobe)

Ank:
Sherman
Jones (I had more second efforts tonight)
This weeks media that will rate Boyd BOG for 30+ possessions

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Bankers,
Dahl, Libba and Minson's game and Clay Smith's 3rd quarter.
Griff's efforts - I really feel for him, the lack of support see's him cop a bashing most weeks from the opposition.

Anchors -
Brian Lake- When the game or moments aren't going his way, is there a bigger head dropper amongst our team?
Higgins- for someone so long earmarked for a leadership role he really sets a poor example alot of times.

[The Underdog]

This weeks media that will rate Boyd BOG for 30+ possessions

I'm growing more disenchanted with him by the week

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm growing more disenchanted with him by the week

As he has evolved into playing the prolific onballer role , we have become a poorer team for it. When he was a support act for Cooney, Griff he was a more accountable and valuable player for us. As soon as we started expecting him to play exapnd his role he has moved further and further out of his skill range and his deficiencies have become amplified.

[always right]

Staggered by some of the criticism of Boyd tonight. How many of you went to the game and how many watched on TV? Say what you like about the quality of his possessions but he did all he could to drag our team into the game. Wasn't our best but he was honest....as always. You only appreciate his effort when you are closer to the action.

Bankers:
Dahl.....so impressed with his effort tonight. Nearly won every contest he was involved in.
Minson.....strong contribution when he could have easily gone into his shell
Boyd....see above
Libba.....one of our more constructive midfielders
Smith......for his second half


Anchors:
Lake was half hearted
Sherman.....was ineffective
Jones......some promising signs in the first half but poor in the second half
Umpiring in the first half.....deadset disgraceful

[Remi Moses]

Let's face it Boyd's a supercoach dream team star. His disposal is ordinary.

Bankers- Dahlhaus (great game)
Minson- thought he was good
Libba - that goal was about two of his old man's kicks

Anchors- the disasterous recruiting of 1st round picks. The 06 draft is killing us
Addison - yes love his desperation, but how he was re- signed is baffling
3 Rucks - why are we persisting with this? The forwards don't know where to lead , and they can't find space!The coach made a serious mistake not tagging Watson.
Sherman - career is over at our club
Higgins- See above . Can we surgically remove Addison's intensity into Shaun's body ?
The corridor - can we please plug it up!

[Remi Moses]

Staggered by some of the criticism of Boyd tonight. How many of you went to the game and how many watched on TV? Say what you like about the quality of his possessions but he did all he could to drag our team into the game. Wasn't our best but he was honest....as always. You only appreciate his effort when you are closer to the action.

Bankers:
Dahl.....so impressed with his effort tonight. Nearly won every contest he was involved in.
Minson.....strong contribution when he could have easily gone into his shell
Boyd....see above
Libba.....one of our more constructive midfielders
Smith......for his second half


Anchors:
Lake was half hearted
Sherman.....was ineffective
Jones......some promising signs in the first half but poor in the second half
Umpiring in the first half.....deadset disgraceful
Crameri's first two goals were a disgrace! Brian Lake's zoning off is very annoying

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Staggered by some of the criticism of Boyd tonight. How many of you went to the game and how many watched on TV? Say what you like about the quality of his possessions but he did all he could to drag our team into the game. Wasn't our best but he was honest....as always. You only appreciate his effort when you are closer to the action.

Bankers:
Dahl.....so impressed with his effort tonight. Nearly won every contest he was involved in.
Minson.....strong contribution when he could have easily gone into his shell
Boyd....see above
Libba.....one of our more constructive midfielders
Smith......for his second half


Anchors:
Lake was half hearted
Sherman.....was ineffective
Jones......some promising signs in the first half but poor in the second half
Umpiring in the first half.....deadset disgraceful

Fair enough, but you don't think Boyd bears any responsibility for the smashing Watson gave him when it was up for grabs in the first quarter? I can never criticise his ability to keep running and trying all night, but his lack of accountability over a long period of time, is a worry is it not?

[LostDoggy]

Staggered by some of the criticism of Boyd tonight. How many of you went to the game and how many watched on TV? Say what you like about the quality of his possessions but he did all he could to drag our team into the game. Wasn't our best but he was honest....as always. You only appreciate his effort when you are closer to the action.


I don't mind being corrected.

On TV all I saw was no effort, no tackles, 7-9 Boyd midfield snap kick to Essendon players.
Look I'm not saying he was worst on field, however I saw nothing to praise him over and the media (looking at his 30 touches) will say he was our only positive.

If you went to the game AR, what was he doing behind he camera?

[always right]

I don't mind being corrected.

On TV all I saw was no effort, no tackles, 7-9 Boyd midfield snap kick to Essendon players.
Look I'm not saying he was worst on field, however I saw nothing to praise him over and the media (looking at his 30 touches) will say he was our only positive.

If you went to the game AR, what was he doing behind he camera?

His defensive game is not a strength but in a game where we lacked players who could impose themselves I thought he was one of a handful who tried to do this.

On a separate matter......where were the bulldogs supporters tonight? I could have had a conversation with each of them tonight. No twilight game excuse either.

[LostDoggy]

On a separate matter......where were the bulldogs supporters tonight? I could have had a conversation with each of them tonight. No twilight game excuse either.

I was in Brisbane, sorry.:D

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

His defensive game is not a strength but in a game where we lacked players who could impose themselves I thought he was one of a handful who tried to do this.

On a separate matter......where were the bulldogs supporters tonight? I could have had a conversation with each of them tonight. No twilight game excuse either.

That's a real concern isn't it. It seems as if our supporter base is just shell shocked.
My wife and I usually get down to Melbourne once a year for a game, and we had earlier pencilled this weekend as the one to fly down for, but circumstances will now probably mean we wont be able to come down at all this year and will have to be content with just the one game when the Dogs come up here to Brissy in Rnd 22.

[LostDoggy]

His defensive game is not a strength but in a game where we lacked players who could impose themselves I thought he was one of a handful who tried to do this.

On a separate matter......where were the bulldogs supporters tonight? I could have had a conversation with each of them tonight. No twilight game excuse either.

They have not even been turning up at home games, so not surprised did not turn up tonight.
I was there as usual, I know how tough it is at the moment, but now is when they need it most.

[bornadog]

Staggered by some of the criticism of Boyd tonight. How many of you went to the game and how many watched on TV? Say what you like about the quality of his possessions but he did all he could to drag our team into the game. Wasn't our best but he was honest....as always. You only appreciate his effort when you are closer to the action.

Couldn't agree more, sick of the Boyd Bashers. If some of the others players put their hearts and guts in like Boyd we would be a better team.

[Greystache]

I went tonight and almost never miss a game, but honestly we are virtually unwatchable at the moment. I watched most of the first half, saw exactly what I expected, and barely kept an eye on the second half while I was chatting with some friends.

Our skill level is below a lot of state level teams.

[Sedat]

Saw a few blokes giving each other a spray on the ground for various things. A bad sign.Traffic cop Higgins sure was busy pointing his fingers here, there and everywhere at his teammates tonight. If Champion Data had stat for finger-pointing, Higgins would be leading all-comers in the AFL.

Dahl's fantastic effort in beating Hurley and Heppell on the wing was sensational and deserved so much more than the wobbly point that eventuated.

As for anchors, Howard's passive effort in the 2nd qtr to give up on the contest deep in defence and cough up a simple goal was as bad as I've seen this season.

[Greystache]

Couldn't agree more, sick of the Boyd Bashers. If some of the others players put their hearts and guts in like Boyd we would be a better team.

They do, just some of them expend that effort when we don't have the ball which makes it less obvious. They also use the ball in a similar fashion, which is one of the reasons we are barely competitive.

[comrade]

I went tonight and almost never miss a game, but honestly we are virtually unwatchable at the moment. I watched most of the first half, saw exactly what I expected, and barely kept an eye on the second half while I was chatting with some friends.

Our skill level is below a lot of state level teams.

It means little, but we would smash every state level team in the country. The difference between the two standards is gigantic.

I'm more worried that we're almost on the same level as the expansion teams.

[Greystache]

.As for anchors, Howard's passive effort in the 2nd qtr to give up on the contest deep in defence and cough up a simple goal was as bad as I've seen this season.

I thought the whistle must have gone, he simply stopped on the spot and gave up a goal.

[Greystache]

It means little, but we would smash every state level team in the country. The difference between the two standards is gigantic.

I'm more worried that we're almost on the same level as the expansion teams.

We'd beat them for fitness and physically, but for pure skill we're no better, but as you said it means f all anyway.

[AndrewP6]

Staggered by some of the criticism of Boyd tonight. How many of you went to the game and how many watched on TV? Say what you like about the quality of his possessions but he did all he could to drag our team into the game. Wasn't our best but he was honest....as always. You only appreciate his effort when you are closer to the action.


I was there, and yes his effort is commendable. His use of the ball, however, on the whole is woeful. And he's captain, so he gets marked harder. Often when he's about to dispose of it, I'm wondering "Where the hell is this going to go?". And yes, I know it was up tonight.

[westbulldog]

Bankers

Too few again to choose

Minson
Libba
Dahl

Anchors

Most of the others!
The future of the team is a worry..
Sherman
Roughead
Jones
Howard
Addison

And the senior leaders are ordinary

.
Lake
Boyd
and so on

Over it! Night!

Agree entirely. I thought Campbell, Smith and Dickson are doing ok, as was Austin before he was dropped. A few hard calls need to be made though otherwise it is oblivion for the next few years.

[Sedat]

Staggered by some of the criticism of Boyd tonight. How many of you went to the game and how many watched on TV? Say what you like about the quality of his possessions but he did all he could to drag our team into the game. Wasn't our best but he was honest....as always. You only appreciate his effort when you are closer to the action.
I went tonight and I thought he was absolutely pantsed head-to-head by a far superior midfielder in every facet of the game. Boyd has always consistently struggled against the real top quality midfielders (eg: Ablett, Swan) and tonight was no exception. When all is said and done, he is a b-grader compared to these guys. That is not to discredit him - it's just where he sits in the pecking order. There was virtually no hurt factor when he had the ball in his hands, and he allowed his direct opponent to become the critical playmaker for the opposition.

He racks up the big numbers because he is supremely fit and knows how to win the ball, but he has all but forgotten the defensive instincts that first gave him the opportunity at this level. Despite his big possession haul, I thought he was very poor tonight.

[LostDoggy]

On a separate matter......where were the bulldogs supporters tonight? I could have had a conversation with each of them tonight. No twilight game excuse either.

I rarely go to Essendon games. To go and see them serve up what they did is a major turn off.
I didn't even watch it.
Once I heard we were losing, I was almost barracking for a thrashing as to me that means it will drive major changes quicker.

[LostDoggy]

I rarely go to Essendon games. To go and see them serve up what they did is a major turn off.
I didn't even watch it.
Once I heard we were losing, I was almost barracking for a thrashing as to me that means it will drive major changes quicker.

I sat through it on tv and it was very painful but we all support the club in a different manner I guess. So what "major" changes are you hoping for?

[LostDoggy]

I sat through it on tv and it was very painful but we all support the club in a different manner I guess. So what "major" changes are you hoping for?

Top down. Mainly Off and some on field

[Ghost Dog]

Agree entirely. I thought Campbell, Smith and Dickson are doing ok, as was Austin before he was dropped. A few hard calls need to be made though otherwise it is oblivion for the next few years.

Well I thought Campbell gave it a crack. For a twenty year old kid, he kicked a goal and threw himself into the ruck.

[LostDoggy]

I went tonight and almost never miss a game, but honestly we are virtually unwatchable at the moment. I watched most of the first half, saw exactly what I expected, and barely kept an eye on the second half while I was chatting with some friends.

Our skill level is below a lot of state level teams.

I get asked my a lot of my people (non-bulldogs) why I turn up to game when we are struggling. I usually mention that I like watching the kids and get excited about the future - despite a few exceptions (Dahl, Campbell, Libba) there has not been much to be happy about on this front in the last 2 weeks.

Our development, maintenance and retention of talent needs to be seriously looked at. We have been decimated by expansion team raids, lack of talent living up to potential and curtailed careers through injuries. Why? Don't give me the small club BS excuse either.

[chef]

Well I thought Campbell gave it a crack. For a twenty year old kid, he kicked a goal and threw himself into the ruck.

Another player that 'cracks in', let's hope thats not all he can do as we have enough of those sort of players all ready.

I think we are mad to be playing more than 1 of Roughead, Minson and Campbell at a time and should be looking to off load one at the end of the season.

[chef]

I get asked my a lot of my people (non-bulldogs) why I turn up to game when we are struggling. I usually mention that I like watching the kids and get excited about the future - despite a few exceptions (Dahl, Campbell, Libba) there has not been much to be happy about on this front in the last 2 weeks.

Our development, maintenance and retention of talent needs to be seriously looked at. We have been decimated by expansion team raids, lack of talent living up to potential and curtailed careers through injuries. Why? Don't give me the small club BS excuse either.

We turn up/watch when we're winning, so we should still be there when we are losing. We have to take the good with the bad that's what being a supporter is all about IMO.

[Sedat]

Well I thought Campbell gave it a crack. For a twenty year old kid, he kicked a goal and threw himself into the ruck.He has some really good tools to work with but he's nowhere near ready to play 120 minutes every week at this level. He blew up about halfway through the 2nd qtr. He's a keeper but I think playing a meaningful role at this level for the rest of the season is beyond him.

[G-Mo77]

We turn up/watch when we're winning, so we should still be there when we are losing. We have to take the good with the bad that's what be a supporter is all about IMO.

Yep. I had some Essendon supporter glowing last night and asking me if I'll cut up my membership my reply was along these lines but through in a barb about how he and about half the other Essendon members wouldn't have even turned up during the Knights days. The no response was deafening.

[SonofScray]

Traffic cop Higgins sure was busy pointing his fingers here, there and everywhere at his teammates tonight. If Champion Data had stat for finger-pointing, Higgins would be leading all-comers in the AFL.

Dahl's fantastic effort in beating Hurley and Heppell on the wing was sensational and deserved so much more than the wobbly point that eventuated.

As for anchors, Howard's passive effort in the 2nd qtr to give up on the contest deep in defence and cough up a simple goal was as bad as I've seen this season.

It looks terrible doesn't it.

[Rance Fan]

Campbell took a few contested marks, palmed the ball down in the ruck well.
Hit a few bodies also!

Tapped a great one down to Libba for a goal which was nice.

I have him and Minson as our one two ruck forward combo

[SlimPickens]

Bankers

Dahl

Libba

Smith

All gave everything they had from siren to siren.

Anchors
Our Lack of leadership and leaders when shit hits the fan.

Howard- WTF?

Jones- needs a spell at VFL level. Has to earn his place back in the side with multiple good performances for Willy.

[Desipura]

If Boak is a strong leader as they say. I would think we must make a play for him!

[Remi Moses]

Yep. I had some Essendon supporter glowing last night and asking me if I'll cut up my membership my reply was along these lines but through in a barb about how he and about half the other Essendon members wouldn't have even turned up during the Knights days. The no response was deafening.

Where were they Round 22 2010? They were awful 2 seasons ago and it shows things can turn.

[GVGjr]

If Boak is a strong leader as they say. I would think we must make a play for him!

I wonder what we would need to offer? I'm not sure a 1st round pick will be enough to get the deal done.

[azabob]

If Boak is a strong leader as they say. I would think we must make a play for him!

Leadership aside is he the type of player we need? Wallis has leadership potential and Libba has it on field in spades (not sure off field).

[bornadog]

Traffic cop Higgins sure was busy pointing his fingers here, there and everywhere at his teammates tonight. If Champion Data had stat for finger-pointing, Higgins would be leading all-comers in the AFL.

This is very harsh, as Higgins has been given a leadership role as part of the coaches teaching philosophy. He is working under instructions from the coach to help the younger players, as is Lake, Gia and a few others. Saw Lake a few times talking to Marko and Aadison about poisitioning, and where to kick etc.

[bornadog]

Leadership aside is he the type of player we need? Wallis has leadership potential and Libba has it on field in spades (not sure off field).

Plus he has no pace - no thank you.!!

[always right]

Don't know why I put myself through it but watched the first quarter again. Suggest that those who have the ability to watch it do so.......I suggest you might have a kinder view of Boyd's game.

He was well on top of Watson early.....a few other times he was all over Watson but being the very good player he is, Watson simply managed to get an effective handball away. Worth noting Watson should have been penalised twice for incorrect disposal when tackled. In the last five minutes Libba was on Watson and couldn't get near him. Picken moved onto him in the second quarter.

The most disturbing aspect watching the first quarter gain was the lack of pressure through the corridor.....and Lake's inept performance in defense.....although he wasn't helped by the lack of pressure on the ball carriers.

[LostDoggy]

This leadership issue is overated. We lose by 80+ we have no leaders, we win it's a different story.
The emphasis should be on getting skilled players, leadership comes after.

[AndrewP6]

This leadership issue is overated. We lose by 80+ we have no leaders, we win it's a different story.
The emphasis should be on getting skilled players, leadership comes after.

But when the chips are down (as they are with a dearth of skill in the side), you look to the leaders to stand up.

[Remi Moses]

This is very harsh, as Higgins has been given a leadership role as part of the coaches teaching philosophy. He is working under instructions from the coach to help the younger players, as is Lake, Gia and a few others. Saw Lake a few times talking to Marko and Aadison about poisitioning, and where to kick etc.

I agree with Stan Alves and Scott Gullan on the ABC.( thank god they dispensed with Samantha Lane) reckon Higgins is a finisher, he's a better skilled version of Sherman.Been a disappointment for mine

[LostDoggy]

But when the chips are down (as they are with a dearth of skill in the side), you look to the leaders to stand up.

When we are down, I look for anyone to play better. If you call that leadership and I call it skills and application.
Maybe we don't have good enough players?

[AndrewP6]

When we are down, I look for anyone to play better. If you call that leadership and I call it skills and application.
Maybe we don't have good enough players?

That's it in a nutshell

[Rocco Jones]

When we are down, I look for anyone to play better. If you call that leadership and I call it skills and application.
Maybe we don't have good enough players?

A lot of things contribute to winning. As you mention, good players help even if they aren't 'leaders'. I guess leadership is a bit 'easier' as it can be more of a decision than improving your skills but basically Nick Maxwell helps his side win and so does Jack Riewoldt. I see leadership/application as a skill. Being good at kicking is important, so is handballing, so is showing leadership.

BTW without 'application' all you have is a psudeo-leader like Gia don't you?

[LostDoggy]

We didnt lose cos we don't have enough leaders, we lost cos we ain't good enough.

[Mantis]

This is very harsh, as Higgins has been given a leadership role as part of the coaches teaching philosophy. He is working under instructions from the coach to help the younger players, as is Lake, Gia and a few others. Saw Lake a few times talking to Marko and Aadison about poisitioning, and where to kick etc.

Perhaps Higgins needs to practice what he preaches.

[bornadog]

Perhaps Higgins needs to practice what he preaches.

He wasn't our worst, he actually played ok.

[Desipura]

I wonder what we would need to offer? I'm not sure a 1st round pick will be enough to get the deal done.

They would want someone like Higgins as well.

[Desipura]

Leadership aside is he the type of player we need? Wallis has leadership potential and Libba has it on field in spades (not sure off field).

I can't put leadership aside, we need to build our list with as many professional footballers on and off the field as we can. You can never have a surplus of leaders.

[Desipura]

But when the chips are down (as they are with a dearth of skill in the side), you look to the leaders to stand up.

Spot on! If we had a strong leadership group, they would not allow the hidings to occur as frequently as they are.
Great leaders have the ability to lift their teammates, they demand excellence.

[azabob]

I can't put leadership aside, we need to build our list with as many professional footballers on and off the field as we can. You can never have a surplus of leaders.

Good point, will be interesting to see what he does.

[GVGjr]

They would want someone like Higgins as well.

I think they may want two 1st round picks or at least a 1st and early 2nd round.

[Topdog]

Spot on! If we had a strong leadership group, they would not allow the hidings to occur as frequently as they are.
Great leaders have the ability to lift their teammates, they demand excellence.

Of the teams in the top 8 currently which do you think have a strong leadership group?

[GVGjr]

Of the teams in the top 8 currently which do you think have a strong leadership group?

It's interesting that so many have jumped on the leadership issue after a couple of woeful losses. A little while back there were a heap of calls on here for Cooney to be made captain. The thoughts were around that he would inspire the team. My simple answer was that despite being a great footballer (and he was at the time) Cooney would be a poor leader and cited a few reasons why. I was informed that he was a changed man and that the players looked up to him but a short while later a clip was found of him street surfing on an esky lid while on a holiday with his team mates. At the time he was nursing an injury which to me didn't exhibit any leadership or maturity for that matter.

I think these on field leadership questions are somewhat wrong. If Judd has a bad day on the field we shouldn't question his value to the leadership of his club because there is a lot more to it than just his on field performance.

Leadership is about (and not confined to) setting the right examples on field and off, training hard and helping your younger team mates become the best they can be and from those few points I think we are well served.
Boyd is an outstanding example of someone making the most of their ability on a very regular basis. Cross is a great example of how to train and prepare for a game and equally Morris is another who pushes himself hard. Gia, Griffen and Murphy are also fine examples of leaders. These qualities should inspire their team mates more than someone having a cracking game.

We are playing poorly for a variety of reasons but the focus on the leadership group of the club isn't the reason why.

I look at Hawthorn and see the likes of Hodge and Mitchell being better examples of genuine leaders than I do Franklin and Buddy is one of the great footballers of the AFL.

Let the good players do their part and let the leaders do theirs. If they happen to be the same player then great but we shouldn't question the quality of the leadership group just because we are on the business end of some bad losses.

[Desipura]

It's interesting that so many have jumped on the leadership issue after a couple of woeful losses. A little while back there were a heap of calls on here for Cooney to be made captain. The thoughts were around that he would inspire the team. My simple answer was that despite being a great footballer (and he was at the time) Cooney would be a poor leader and cited a few reasons why. I was informed that he was a changed man and that the players looked up to him but a short while later a clip was found of him street surfing on an esky lid while on a holiday with his team mates. At the time he was nursing an injury which to me didn't exhibit any leadership or maturity for that matter.

I think these on field leadership questions are somewhat wrong. If Judd has a bad day on the field we shouldn't question his value to the leadership of his club because there is a lot more to it than just his on field performance.

Leadership is about (and not confined to) setting the right examples on field and off, training hard and helping your younger team mates become the best they can be and from those few points I think we are well served.
Boyd is an outstanding example of someone making the most of their ability on a very regular basis. Cross is a great example of how to train and prepare for a game and equally Morris is another who pushes himself hard. Gia, Griffen and Murphy are also fine examples of leaders. These qualities should inspire their team mates more than someone having a cracking game.

We are playing poorly for a variety of reasons but the focus on the leadership group of the club isn't the reason why.

I look at Hawthorn and see the likes of Hodge and Mitchell being better examples of genuine leaders than I do Franklin and Buddy is one of the great footballers of the AFL.

Let the good players do their part and let the leaders do theirs. If they happen to be the same player then great but we shouldn't question the quality of the leadership group just because we are on the business end of some bad losses.
Out of all the leaders you mentioned we have, how many of them perform consistently week in week out. I can think of Boyd and to a lesser extent Cross.

Griffen to me is not a leader, a very good player almost at the elite level but not a leader (probably similar to Franklin). Morris has been a huge loss due to his leadership and being able to educate/inspire on and off the field.

[Mantis]

He wasn't our worst, he actually played ok.

With his standing within our inexperienced team one would hope he would be a good contributor, but his directing of players to do work he is unwilling to do gets on mine and other peoples nerves.

[bornadog]

but his directing of players to do work he is unwilling to do gets on mine and other peoples nerves.

As I said he is working under instructions from the coach.

[bornadog]

Out of all the leaders you mentioned we have, how many of them perform consistently week in week out. I can think of Boyd and to a lesser extent Cross.

Griffen to me is not a leader, a very good player almost at the elite level but not a leader (probably similar to Franklin). Morris has been a huge loss due to his leadership and being able to educate/inspire on and off the field.

Leadership is not our current problem.

[Desipura]

Leadership is not our current problem.
That is your opinion. It is one of our problems is mine.

[LostDoggy]

Leadership is not our current problem.

Yes your right. Very overated. Skills, game plan, speed, etc.

To those that think leadership is the issue, should we get the best leader in next draft?

[Desipura]

Yes your right. Very overated. Skills, game plan, speed, etc.

To those that think leadership is the issue, should we get the best leader in next draft?

If the best player has leadership potential, then that is my first choice..... yes.
If he does not, he would have to be clearly the best player.
He does not have to be the best leader. You will find early first rounders in recent times have alot of attributes we are looking for ie skills, attitude.

[LostDoggy]

If the best player has leadership potential, then that is my first choice..... yes.
If he does not, he would have to be clearly the best player.
He does not have to be the best leader. You will find early first rounders in recent times have alot of attributes we are looking for ie skills, attitude.

Is there are test at the combine for leadership potential?
I think it's a load of rubbish.
Anyone that's good shows leadership potential.
Buddy had a minder obviously wasn't a good leader.

[Desipura]

Is there are test at the combine for leadership potential?
I think it's a load of rubbish.
Anyone that's good shows leadership potential.
Buddy had a minder obviously wasn't a good leader.
I believe there is, MJP may be able to confirm/deny.

[Mantis]

As I said he is working under instructions from the coach.

So his job is to tell everyone else to do the work he refuses to do?

Good leaders lead by example, Higgins doesn't do this on the field.

[Ozza]

Bankers:

Smith and Dahlhaus for intensity.

Anchors:

The absolute rubbish that is being dished up as a 'game plan'. It defies belief that we have to sit and watch this nonsense of about 8 blokes around the immediate contest with no apparent plan or set up for what we might do if we actually get the ball. The issue with our forwardline - everyone wants to say that its a personnel issue - but we don't even get a chance to see if the young forwards are up to it - because there isn't a forwardline in place. Is there any danger of us having a forward structure at any stage during a game? Why does every forward feel compelled to make their way up to the half back flank for most of the game? The good sides just don't do it to the ridiculous level we do.

Christian Howard - a completely feeble performance. Not just his effort in the second quarter - which you would not accept from a D Grade reserves player - but everytime Essendon surged forward in waves he was an absloute deer in the headlights.

Easton Wood and Dylan Addison's disposal out of defence was disgraceful. Wood in particular - misses the mark week after week by 10 or 15 metres at a time.

[bornadog]

So his job is to tell everyone else to do the work he refuses to do?



Did I say that? How do you know what he is saying?

[LostDoggy]

I believe there is, MJP may be able to confirm/deny.

Your kidding aren't you? At 17yo you can test someone with actual data to see if they be able to lead adults in the future.
It's all guess work for something you can't really measure.

[Mantis]

How do you know what he is saying?

I can read lips.

[azabob]

I can read lips.

But can you read hand singles? ;) :D

[bornadog]

I can read lips.

forgot you were superman:p

[LostDoggy]

Anchors:if Howard was neither unwell or injured then send him back to Glenelg -fast
Jones needs to go back to VFL and learn how to play. Roughy likewise.
And the Selector who championed the idea of playing Roughy as the Sub should give the game away.

The last couple of performances rate with the worst days of Rhode or perhaps the mid 60's

We are in for a long stint at the bottom.

Please, please give them one or two priorities beyond contested possessions!!!

[Desipura]

Your kidding aren't you? At 17yo you can test someone with actual data to see if they be able to lead adults in the future.
It's all guess work for something you can't really measure.
Are you saying you cannot pick a potential leader from an interview?
Have you ever done any recruiting?

[Ozza]

Interesting comment from Higgins post game on one of the radio stations (maybe AW) on Saturday night.

He was saying that they pride themselves on attack on the ball and contested ball - and were poor in that area - and if that fails they don't have anything to fall back on.

He may have not chosen his words correctly - but if thats exactly what he means - then we are in serious strife.

[LostDoggy]

Are you saying you cannot pick a potential leader from an interview?
Have you ever done any recruiting?

And they get it right all the time.
Again it's all based on opinion for something you can't really measure on young kids that haven't matured yet.

[GVGjr]

Leadership is not our current problem.


That is your opinion. It is one of our problems is mine.

The leadership group don't select the players on the playing list or the players selected on match day so from my view, there are some more pressing issues to improve on before we make any changes to the leadership group.
It certainly isn't a quick fix either.

Chucking guys into the group would be at best symbolic and there are a few things I would want to iron out before making that change.

To me it's the equivalent of filling the petrol tank of a car that's just been in an accident. Yes we will need to look at the quality of the leadership group but there are some more pressing issues to deal with that the leadership can't influence.

[GVGjr]

Are you saying you cannot pick a potential leader from an interview?
Have you ever done any recruiting?

Physcometric tests can tell you certain things about the character of a person and their potential to improve but the younger guys are well coached to give text book answers.

When you see a young guy like Wallis his leadership potential is for all and sundry to see but for others a test might help. I personally don't hold think they are great tests but it's obviously something that a lot of clubs will do.

[chef]

Are you saying you cannot pick a potential leader from an interview?
Have you ever done any recruiting?

This is something that the club could and would find out when they interview the potential draftees teachers, coaches etc.

Most leaders are born leaders.

[neddie]

Anchors:if Howard was neither unwell or injured then send him back to Glenelg -fast
Jones needs to go back to VFL and learn how to play. Roughy likewise.
And the Selector who championed the idea of playing Roughy as the Sub should give the game away.

The last couple of performances rate with the worst days of Rhode or perhaps the mid 60's

We are in for a long stint at the bottom.

Please, please give them one or two priorities beyond contested possessions!!!

Last week Howard was in the best players ,your motto appears to be" one strike and your out"and sent home!!!

[LostDoggy]

Last week Howard was in the best players ,your motto appears to be" one strike and your out"and sent home!!!

It was the nature of his performance that was so damning. Every player can have a bad day. We can live with that. But you can't live with lack of effort, you can't live with a nonchalent approach which says, I don't give a damn and you can't live with a bloke that had timid written all over him.

Some things are not negotiable.