Giants set sights on Bulldog Minson

[Hotdog60]

http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/data/media/00000001/00010641/willmonson-preview.jpg

AFL newcomers Greater Western Sydney have turned a nation-wide search for an experienced ruckman to controversial Western Bulldog Will Minson.


Western Bulldog Will Minson (pictured) was in trouble for a sledge to Port Adelaide's Danyle Pearce

Minson could be targeted with a lure of a two-year contract from next season as Giants management continue to nurture promising young ruck stars of the future Tom Downie and Andrew Phillips.

Downie, just 19 and Phillips, at 21, are expected to be gradually introduced into the AFL firing line under tutelage from an experienced big man like Minson.

Minson, 27, is out of contract with the Dogs at the end of this season.

It is believed early indications from Minson’s initial discussions that only a one-year deal is on offer to the Dogs big man and without any significant financial increase from what he is already earning.

Minson is believed to be in Giants recruiting crosshairs as other potential ruckmen such as Mark Jamar from Melbourne and ace Carlton young big man Matthew Kreuzer signed new agreements to extend commitments with their current clubs.

Emerging North Melbourne ruck star Todd Goldstein signed an extension to the end of 2014 with the Kangaroos back in January.

Classy Essendon utility Paddy Ryder is another big man to sign a new contract earlier this season as the Bombers moved to head off any prospect of him moving to western Sydney.

Another Blues big man Robbie Warnock and Fremantle back-up ruckman Jonathon Griffin, are two top ruck talents who, like Minson, are out of contract at the end of this season and have not settled new deals to stay where they are.

Minson could be lured to the Giants in a similar playing and mentoring strategy as Port Adelaide premiership veteran Dean Brogan was recruited to the new franchise at the end of last season.

Brogan, 33, has managed six games in his dual role of senior player and ruck coach with the Giants, but it is not expected the 180-gamer will play again next season.

Minson was in the news for all the wrong reasons last month when the Dogs big man was embroiled in a vilification action over disparaging comments he is alleged to have made to Port Adelaide on-baller Danyle Pearce.

Minson copped a club imposed one-game suspension and was made to publicly apologise to Pearce for comments made about the Port veteran’s mother during a match at Etihad Stadium on June 17.

Minson has played 127 senior games and appears to remain important to Bulldogs future planning as Dogs also manage the development pathways for young ruck hopeful Tom Campbell and Jordan Roughead.

Campbell, 20, made his Doggies senior debut a fortnight ago as fill-in for Minson when the senior ruck forced served his suspension for his vilification of Pearce.

Campbell was significantly more influential in his inaugural outing against Brisbane.

He gathered 11 possessions and made 28 hitouts against Lions big man Ben Hudson as the Dogs copped a hefty 58-point drubbing, before just seven touches and making 11 tapouts in the blow-away 14-goal thumping from Essendon last Saturday night.
LINK (http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2012/07/04/giants-set-sights-on-bulldog-minson/)

[G-Mo77]

Better scenario for us if he goes there than any other club. We'll be compensated for the loss and if he goes somewhere else we won't.

He'll leave the club, I have no doubts about that. :(

[Eastdog]

Better scenario for us if he goes there than any other club. We'll be compensated for the loss and if he goes somewhere else we won't.

He'll leave the club, I have no doubts about that. :(

Do you reckon if we trade Minson to GWS that we can get a quality player. Who would be good to get if we trade Minson.

[chef]

Do you reckon if we trade Minson to GWS that we can get a quality player. Who would be good to get if we trade Minson.

Nah, we'll get a compo draft pick.

[Greystache]

Nah, we'll get a compo draft pick.

We could negotiate for a player, then a compo pick as a sweetener. They've already taken an uncontracted player from us, so if they want another we have to be prepared to play ball with them.

[Remi Moses]

Probably a seventh round pick.We'll cry blue murder then meekly surrender when we get shafted!!

[G-Mo77]

We could negotiate for a player, then a compo pick as a sweetener. They've already taken an uncontracted player from us, so if they want another we have to be prepared to play ball with them.

Well we'd have to give them the OK so we do have a bit of leverage I guess. I wouldn't want to scare them away though.

[Eastdog]

Nah, we'll get a compo draft pick.

What round of the draft would you think it will be.

[Hotdog60]

We could negotiate for a player, then a compo pick as a sweetener. They've already taken an uncontracted player from us, so if they want another we have to be prepared to play ball with them.

Our luck they'll give us Sam Reid

[anfo27]

package minson with some other players and we could get a pick in the mini draft.

wouldn't be a bad outcome for us.

[Eastdog]

package minson with some other players and we could get a pick in the mini draft.

wouldn't be a bad outcome for us.

Do you think Minson for us is a bit like Fraser and Collingwood or is it completely different.

[LongWait]

If Minson goes under free-agency we get an AFL-determined compo pick no matter what the scenario (unless we have de-listed the player already.) We would have to re-sign Will to trade him.

[bornadog]

I would not like to see Minson go, we will be left with a bunch of 21 year olds that are not up to it at this stage. I know its early days but how can they offer Minson 1 year when Addison is offered a two year:eek:

I am really concerned with our club and the way they manage players.

[anfo27]

Do you think Minson for us is a bit like Fraser and Collingwood or is it completely different.

Fraser was officially finished & GC did the pies a massive favour.

Will has been good this year but just think at his age and where we are at with our list it could be a good move for both parties. Will will get more years and money and we could get a valuable piece for our future as well as cap space. We have roughead, minson, campbell & cordy on the list and getting rid of one for a nice piece back is not a bad idea.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I would not like to see Minson go, we will be left with a bunch of 21 year olds that are not up to it at this stage. I know its early days but how can they offer Minson 1 year when Addison is offered a two year:eek:

I am really concerned with our club and the way they manage players.

It's absolute bizarro world stuff. This is rubbish from the Dogs, that we offer Will 1 year when he is playing the best football of his carer after finally getting the number 1 ruck role that he was always suited for. Yet Addison who whilst honest, is hardly the type of player we need to lock in on multi-year deals is given 2 years.

Without Minson our combined games experience in the ruck spread amongst Cordy, Campbell and Roughead equals less than 50 games, with Roughy having the lion share of that.
Our list management decisions of late are very confusing. if Will goes, we are going to have an even more woeful year next year guaranteed.

[anfo27]

I would not like to see Minson go, we will be left with a bunch of 21 year olds that are not up to it at this stage. I know its early days but how can they offer Minson 1 year when Addison is offered a two year:eek:

I am really concerned with our club and the way they manage players.

by the time we will be ready for finals minson will be 30 and have little value. the 21 year olds will have 60 more games under their belt and should be good ruck man by then.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Fraser was officially finished & GC did the pies a massive favour.

Will has been good this year but just think at his age and where we are at with our list it could be a good move for both parties. Will will get more years and money and we could get a valuable piece for our future as well as cap space. We have roughead, minson, campbell & cordy on the list and getting rid of one for a nice piece back is not a bad idea.

So you're quite okay with us having an even worse season next year? Because in that scenario we would have the most inexperienced ruck combo in the league by a long way, we would get pounded. Do you think that would be good for Roughy/Campbell/Cordy's development?

How much cap space do we need to free up for goodness sake? Does anyone really think we're going to land anyone of significance come trade/free agency that would require us stripping even more money than already from our expended salary cap.
If I was a betting man, and going on the past 35 years of trade periods I would say at best we would be in the market for a fringe gap filler at best.

Anyone name me a marquee or even high rated player who has willingly chosen to come to our club in that time, or perhaps even earlier for the older members on this forum?

If Will Minson is shopped around come season end it is the absolute sign that our club has well and truly lost the plot.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

by the time we will be ready for finals minson will be 30 and have little value. the 21 year olds will have 60 more games under their belt and should be good ruck man by then.

Or be well and truly ground into the dirt/dissillusioned and either delisted or off to another club.

[Eastdog]

Rodney Eade from memory described Minson once as "the dumbest smart footballer". I think he has been ok this year. The problem in previous seasons Hudson was our main ruck. I think we got Hudson and Hall a bit too late. Do you think Hudson still would be good if he stayed with us this season or did we make the right decision trading him.

[Bulldog4life]

Better scenario for us if he goes there than any other club. We'll be compensated for the loss and if he goes somewhere else we won't.

He'll leave the club, I have no doubts about that. :(

Do you know something I don't know or is that just your opinion. If it is just your opinion my opinion is that he will stay.

[Bulldog4life]

Fraser was officially finished & GC did the pies a massive favour.

Will has been good this year but just think at his age and where we are at with our list it could be a good move for both parties. Will will get more years and money and we could get a valuable piece for our future as well as cap space. We have roughead, minson, campbell & cordy on the list and getting rid of one for a nice piece back is not a bad idea.

The Afl decides for us. I doubt that we will get a "nice piece" or draft pick for Will.

[G-Mo77]

Do you know something I don't know or is that just your opinion. If it is just your opinion my opinion is that he will stay.

Just my opinion.

If I was in his position I wouldn't want to work for the WB after the way he was treated in Mothergate. They hung him out to dry! He didn't deserve that and I'm sure it will be in his mind when discussing a new contract.

I hope you're right.

BTW are you just banking on the opposite opinion of mine. ;)

[azabob]

He'll leave the club, I have no doubts about that. :(


Do you know something I don't know or is that just your opinion. If it is just your opinion my opinion is that he will stay.

I think Minson will leave. If we have only offered him what has been reported it is a major slap in the face and I think as a club we didn't support Will enough during the Pearce affair.

[Bulldog4life]

Just my opinion.

If I was in his position I wouldn't want to work for the WB after the way he was treated in Mothergate. They hung him out to dry! He didn't deserve that and I'm sure it will be in his mind when discussing a new contract.

I hope you're right.

Okay. From my perspective Will has been at our Club for 10 years. No doubt he has made a number of friends at the Club too. He strikes me as a loyal type too. I wouldn't think his last indiscretion would make him want to leave either.

[SonofScray]

Just my opinion.

If I was in his position I wouldn't want to work for the WB after the way he was treated in Mothergate. They hung him out to dry! He didn't deserve that and I'm sure it will be in his mind when discussing a new contract.

I hope you're right.

BTW are you just banking on the opposite opinion of mine. ;)

You are on the money, I am fairly certain this is how and why thins will play out the way they have. In Will's shoes, I'd do the same.

A shame because he is a leader. I like the way he has gone about his career.

[Remi Moses]

It's absolute bizarro world stuff. This is rubbish from the Dogs, that we offer Will 1 year when he is playing the best football of his carer after finally getting the number 1 ruck role that he was always suited for. Yet Addison who whilst honest, is hardly the type of player we need to lock in on multi-year deals is given 2 years.

Without Minson our combined games experience in the ruck spread amongst Cordy, Campbell and Roughead equals less than 50 games, with Roughy having the lion share of that.
Our list management decisions of late are very confusing. if Will goes, we are going to have an even more woeful year next year guaranteed.

Agree it's a weird decision, but the side will struggle with or without Will next season. It would be strange of GWS as by the time they come good Minson will be in his 30's!

[Bulldog4life]

Just my opinion.

If I was in his position I wouldn't want to work for the WB after the way he was treated in Mothergate. They hung him out to dry! He didn't deserve that and I'm sure it will be in his mind when discussing a new contract.

I hope you're right.

BTW are you just banking on the opposite opinion of mine. ;)

I missed your last line. My answer is no....I think.:)

[Remi Moses]

You are on the money, I am fairly certain this is how and why thins will play out the way they have. In Will's shoes, I'd do the same.

A shame because he is a leader. I like the way he has gone about his career.

What should have they done? The AFL would have hauled him over the coals and he would have been suspended.

[LongWait]

A couple of questions in my mind about this:

1. Why should we believe what a hack journo writes about what we have offered Will?
2. Why would we think that our club should make its' first offer its' best offer?

Lot of water to go under the bridge over the next two or three months imho. No need for hand wringing and panic yet.

[Eastdog]

A couple of questions in my mind about this:

1. Why should we believe what a hack journo writes about what we have offered Will?
2. Why would we think that our club should make its' first offer its' best offer?

Lot of water to go under the bridge over the next two or three months imho. No need for hand wringing and panic yet.

Good post LongWait. We need to keep an open mind. He may not even go to GWS.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

The Afl decides for us. I doubt that we will get a "nice piece" or draft pick for Will.

Yep, as a 10 year player, he an unrestricted free agent, and GWS won't have to give up a thing, and the AFL will not be obliged to be charitable. At a guess I'd say we'd get an end of 2nd round pick.

[azabob]

A couple of questions in my mind about this:
2. Why would we think that our club should make its' first offer its' best offer?

Lot of water to go under the bridge over the next two or three months imho. No need for hand wringing and panic yet.

Let's ask Callan Ward what he thought of our first offer.

When in a negotiation you need to be fair and reasonable first time, if the offer is true it is a slap in the face to Minson.

[anfo27]

So you're quite okay with us having an even worse season next year? Because in that scenario we would have the most inexperienced ruck combo in the league by a long way, we would get pounded.Do you think that would be good for Roughy/Campbell/Cordy's development?

How much cap space do we need to free up for goodness sake? Does anyone really think we're going to land anyone of significance come trade/free agency that would require us stripping even more money than already from our expended salary cap.
If I was a betting man, and going on the past 35 years of trade periods I would say at best we would be in the market for a fringe gap filler at best.

Anyone name me a marquee or even high rated player who has willingly chosen to come to our club in that time, or perhaps even earlier for the older members on this forum?

If Will Minson is shopped around come season end it is the absolute sign that our club has well and truly lost the plot.

We've won 5 games so far this year & might win 1 or 2 more before the seasons done, so that would be 7 wins for the year. We are rebuilding & will lose some more experienced players for next year so i think we will be worse next year with or without Minson. So yes I am ok with us having a worse year next year as i don't think we will win more than 6-7 games next year.
We are going to cop plenty more poundings before this team starts to turn the corner & thats with or without Minson.
We have 3 rucks in there early 20's that need to develop & will develop quicker playing senior footy. I know we need a senior bloke in there to help them through to make it easier for them but if the club gets an attractive offer for Minson you have to look at it. His value has never been higher & by the time our rucks are ready to take over Minson, Minson will have little value. For a team looking to get as many talented kids to the club as possible, a minson trade should not be out of the question.

[Throughandthrough]

Who has #1 draft pick next year? Is it GWS? They would be better served by taking Brodie Grundy. Or if we could take Grundy i'd be happy with that.

[Desipura]

I would hope the Giants make a play for him as it will mean we must get compensated.
Will Hoskin Elliott and pick 1 in the mini draft would be a great result.

As I posted last week, Minson is the ruck man on our list who we could get the most compensation out of, due to his experience and also due to his solid form this season.

If we play our cards right, we could strengthen our list considerably with a number of talented kids in the one draft (provided we get most of the picks right)
If the offer we have tabled Will is only for one season, I think this is a good strategic move by the club.
It is telling him we want to retain you but will not get in your way if you want to go to a particular club for a longer term.

[anfo27]

The Afl decides for us. I doubt that we will get a "nice piece" or draft pick for Will.

If thats the case then I agree. I doubt the AFL would give us decent compensation for Wilbur as well. We would want to offer him more than what we are at present then cause he has taken on more responsibility & is been offered the same coin. I wouldn't be happy with that.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I would hope the Giants make a play for him as it will mean we must get compensated.
Will Hoskin Elliott and pick 1 in the mini draft would be a great result.
As I posted last week, Minson is the ruck man on our list who we could get the most compensation out of, due to his experience and also due to his solid form this season.
If we play our cards right, we could strengthen our list considerably with a number of talented kids in the one draft (provided we get most of the picks right)

Why must we get any compensation for him, he is an unprotected free agent with 10 year's service? Doesn't that mean he can go anywhere he wants without us getting anything other than an AFL determined compensatory pick?
Are you saying that the rule that states that the GWS are only able to raid a club once applies here, and over-rides the unprotected free-agency? If sthis is what you are saying, are you 100% sure about this?

[Eastdog]

If thats the case then I agree. I doubt the AFL would give us decent compensation for Wilbur as well. We would want to offer him more than what we are at present then cause he has taken on more responsibility & is been offered the same coin. I wouldn't be happy with that.

If we do trade Minson what would be the equivalent that we would get back?

[anfo27]

If we do trade Minson what would be the equivalent that we would get back?

not sure what the go is as Minnow is a free agent. New system this year with free agency and I'm not clear on the rules. I'm sure someone on here is onto it.

[bornadog]

I would hope the Giants make a play for him as it will mean we must get compensated.
Will Hoskin Elliott and pick 1 in the mini draft would be a great result.

As I posted last week, Minson is the ruck man on our list who we could get the most compensation out of, due to his experience and also due to his solid form this season.

If we play our cards right, we could strengthen our list considerably with a number of talented kids in the one draft (provided we get most of the picks right)
If the offer we have tabled Will is only for one season, I think this is a good strategic move by the club.
It is telling him we want to retain you but will not get in your way if you want to go to a particular club for a longer term.

Who gives a toss at what he is valued at. I will tell you what he is valued at, he is a proven ruckman. I don't want some kid who we think may or may not be able to play and unproven.

Will is now at his peak and here to stay.

[bornadog]

Why must we get any compensation for him, he is an unprotected free agent with 10 year's service? Doesn't that mean he can go anywhere he wants without us getting anything other than an AFL determined compensatory pick?
Are you saying that the rule that states that the GWS are only able to raid a club once applies here, and over-rides the unprotected free-agency? If sthis is what you are saying, are you 100% sure about this?

What I understand is under free agency, GWS can make an offer, if we don't match it then he can walk.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

If we do trade Minson what would be the equivalent that we would get back?

It is determined by the AFL in the same manner as the expansion club draft compensation picks were determined.
I recall the newspaper article saying they are unlikely to be as generous as the expansion club compensation picks.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

What I understand is under free agency, GWS can make an offer, if we don't match it then he can walk.

I don't think that's the case for the level of Free Agency Will qualifies. that only applies to a 7 yr vet.
A 7 year vet HAS to stay if we offer him the same
Will qualifes as a complete unrestricted free agent, which means he can do as he pleases, without having to even look at ANY offer we may put to him.

[GVGjr]

I would hope the Giants make a play for him as it will mean we must get compensated.
Will Hoskin Elliott and pick 1 in the mini draft would be a great result.




They will laugh that suggestion off. Will's value isn't two first round players/picks

[bornadog]

I don't think that's the case for the level of Free Agency Will qualifies. that only applies to a 6 yr vet.
A 6 year vet HAS to stay if we offer him the same
Will qualifes as a complete unrestricted free agent, which means he can do as he pleases, without having to even look at ANY offer we may put to him.

ok, cheers. I should have checked, but was lazy and going on memory:)

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

See Free Agency Rules.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/89809/default.aspx

In short Wil can do as he pleases, and we can kiss the AFL's pinky ring and hope they deign to throw us a morsel in return.

[anfo27]

See Free Agency Rules.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/89809/default.aspx

In short Wil can do as he pleases, and kiss the AFL's pinky ring and hope they deign to throw us a morsel in return.

the bolded part below confuses me. Would Will be in the top 10 highest paid players at the club?

3. A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is one of the 10 highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service.

The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.

If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.

His club has the right to match the presented offer.

If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the Draft.

If the club does not or can not match the offer, the player can move to the new club of his choice.

His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

the bolded part below confuses me. Would Will be in the top 10 highest paid players at the club?

3. A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is one of the 10 highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service.

The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.

If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.

His club has the right to match the presented offer.

If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the Draft.

If the club does not or can not match the offer,and the player can move to the new club of his choice.

His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

Will qualifies under the 10 year rule, he can just walk, his salary position with us is not a consideration under the criteria he fits in as a 10 year player with the one club, who has been out of contract once before.

[anfo27]

Will qualifies under the 10 year rule, he can just walk, his salary position with us is not a consideration.

when did Will last sign a contract extension? if he last signed a 3 year deal then he can't just walk. Thats how i read it anyway.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

when did Will last sign a contract extension? if he last signed a 3 year deal then he can't just walk. Thats how i read it anyway.
Hmm, you might be right, IF Will is coming off a 3 year deal, that would've meant that he has not previously been out of contract after 8 years of service. Which would mean it would revert to the previous either FA clause 4, or if he is in the top 10 Salaried player then clause 3.
Still even at clause 3, he can choose not to consider a matched offer by his original club.

[anfo27]

Hmm, you might be right, IF Will is coming off a 3 year deal, that would've meant that he has not previously been out of contract after 8 years of service. Which would mean it would revert to the previous either FA clause 4, or if he is in the top 10 Salaried player then clause 3.
Still even at clause 3, he can choose not to consider a matched offer by his original club.

but this is part of clause 3 which is confusing.

If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the Draft.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

but this is part of clause 3 which is confusing.

If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the Draft.


Jayzus...this stuff looks like it's been drafted by a Philadelphia lawyer!

[LostDoggy]

Who gives a toss at what he is valued at. I will tell you what he is valued at, he is a proven ruckman. I don't want some kid who we think may or may not be able to play and unproven.

Will is now at his peak and here to stay.

This.

It may take years to get experience and know how into our other young ruck men. Setting ourselves up for sustained ruck problems if we do away with experience altogether. For example, with West Coast, Natanui has Cox. They work wonderfully well together.

We should also reward Minson for his loyalty, despite being shopped around last year and playing second fiddle to Hudson for so long. Now's his chance and, from what I can see, he has taken it.

[Remi Moses]

Who has #1 draft pick next year? Is it GWS? They would be better served by taking Brodie Grundy. Or if we could take Grundy i'd be happy with that.

Bingo ^^^

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I would hope the Giants make a play for him as it will mean we must get compensated.
Will Hoskin Elliott and pick 1 in the mini draft would be a great result.

You questioned me when I said that we should only trade Howard if a club offered an early second round pick or better, and yet you propose the above deal? There's more chance of us making the finals Desi :p

We'd probably get a second round pick for Minson. Nothing more, certainly not two first round picks effectively.

[GVGjr]

We'd probably get a second round pick for Minson. Nothing more, certainly not two first round picks effectively.

To get a seat at the mini draft we would need to offer at least one of our first round picks and something else and maybe that is Minson. We might be able to claw something else back with a flip flop of 2nd and 3rd round picks but Minson was never going to get us something like Hoskin-Elliot and a mini draft selection as Desi was suggesting.

[Twodogs]

In short Wil can do as he pleases, and we can kiss the AFL's pinky ring



We've had plenty of experience of doing that.

[Eastdog]

I mentioned Ben Hudson in a previous post in this thread. Do you think he would have been good for us in the ruck this year for us or was it the right decision for him to go.

[GVGjr]

I mentioned Ben Hudson in a previous post in this thread. Do you think he would have been good for us in the ruck this year for us or was it the right decision for him to go.


He needed to go but I think this is a strange question in the context of this thread.

[Eastdog]

He needed to go but I think this is a strange question in the context of this thread.

I was just wondering that if Minson went then we still would have an experience tall there in Hudson but that is not the reality.

[Go_Dogs]

but this is part of clause 3 which is confusing.

If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the Draft.


My take is that if we matched the offer, he can't just walk and we would have to come to a trade agreement with another club for him to leave, in the same manner any trade would normally operate.

The fact that it says seek a trade is confusing, because a club could potentially manipulate it by inflating a players worth and refusing to do a deal if they wanted to keep them. Is there going to be some sort of arbitration system that means you can't "unreasonably" decline a "fair" trade offer? The wording is open to interpretation, which probably suits the AFL. If it affects Collingwood first you can bet the interpretation will be favourable to them!

[LostDoggy]

My understanding of the rules is that GWS can only get Will if we trade him. They are restricted from Free Agency rule because they have already taken Ward from us and can't take more then 1 uncontracted player from each club.

I have a feeling the we will use Will as a trade for one of the 17 year olds in the mini draft

[G-Mo77]

My understanding of the rules is that GWS can only get Will if we trade him. They are restricted from Free Agency rule because they have already taken Ward from us and can't take more then 1 uncontracted player from each club.

I have a feeling the we will use Will as a trade for one of the 17 year olds in the mini draft

Yep.

[bulldogsman]

To get a seat at the mini draft we would need to offer at least one of our first round picks and something else and maybe that is Minson. We might be able to claw something else back with a flip flop of 2nd and 3rd round picks but Minson was never going to get us something like Hoskin-Elliot and a mini draft selection as Desi was suggesting.

Maybe if we traded Minson to GWS it could get us the mini draft pick. We would get a compo pick from the AFL, like Brisbane got one for Brennan because they lost 2 uncontracted players. Then we could offload the compo pick along with whatever we get for Minson to GWS for a mini draft pick.

[jeemak]

Our club seems to have travelled a long way in the last three months, hasn't it?

Not many good news stories coming out of the Kennel right now. While it would be disappointing to lose Will under certain circumstances, I can't really get too flustered over a story like this at this stage of the game, especially being so distant from from the inner workings of the club and the strategy it is putting together for the remainder of this year and the years to come.

The management of our taller players this year, up forward and through the ruck has confused me no end. Whether it be selection of the 22 each week, the nominated sub or positional selections each week I just can't seem to get my head around it. I hope there's a strong strategy in place, I really do.

[chef]

We don't really need all 3 of Roughead, Campbell and Minson(especially if they change the bench to 2 &2 next season). So I'm happy to trade out whoever we get the best deal for.

Sentiment is dead in football nowadays, which is sad.

[LostDoggy]

We don't really need all 3 of Roughead, Campbell and Minson(especially if they change the bench to 2 &2 next season). So I'm happy to trade out whoever we get the best deal for.

Sentiment is dead in football nowadays, which is sad.

Agreed. We should really be playing 1 ruck with players like Cordy and Jones helping out.

However of the 3 Minson is the best.
The other 2 are raw and may be better or worse.
I'm against trading out loyal club servants but happy to do what's best for the club.
Just worried we'll get duded on a trade or stuff up any picks received.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I just hope all of those who are advocating a trade for Minson (as distinct from those who are just resigned to it occurring) weren't also part of the group crucifying Callan Ward for leaving.
I guess demanding loyalty from and showing loyalty to are mutually exclusive?

[LostDoggy]

Btw I think we should put a high price on him or any of our rucks.
Looking quickly at clubs who may need experienced rucks. Brisbane, Hawthorn, Saints, Gws, suns, Geelong and the pies.
The other way is considerably less- freo, carlton and us.

[LostDoggy]

I just hope all of those who are advocating a trade for Minson (as distinct from those who are just resigned to it occurring) weren't also part of the group crucifying Callan Ward for leaving.
I guess demanding loyalty from and showing loyalty to are mutually exclusive?

I want him to stay but 3 rucks does go into 1 spot.
He probably has the most value.
Is it being disloyal if you say to a player we are trading you because we can't play you every week? I would have thought its win-win.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I want him to stay but 3 rucks does go into 1 spot.
He probably has the most value.
Is it being disloyal if you say to a player we are trading you because we can't play you every week? I would have thought its win-win.

Fair enough, but why bother offering him n insulting one year deal?
I don't see why Will could not play a significant role as 1st ruck for 2 or 3 years, and help mentor Roughy, Campbell and Cordy.
I think that's the win-win situation.

We reward a loyal servant and provide our young ruck talent with an excellent learning environment. In 2 years time hopefully they are increasingly eased into a more prominent role.

[anfo27]

I just hope all of those who are advocating a trade for Minson (as distinct from those who are just resigned to it occurring) weren't also part of the group crucifying Callan Ward for leaving.
I guess demanding loyalty from and showing loyalty to are mutually exclusive?

I have no problem with Ward leaving. The offer was too good to refuse & i would have done the same thing. Loyalty in sport is a load of crap, loyalty only exists if its suits both parties which isn't loyalty at all.

[Mantis]

The management of our taller players this year, up forward and through the ruck has confused me no end. Whether it be selection of the 22 each week, the nominated sub or positional selections each week I just can't seem to get my head around it. I hope there's a strong strategy in place, I really do.

Through a work function yesterday I had the opportunity to briefly speak with a respected member of the AFL community.

I quizzed him about this very fact and he shared your bewilderment, especially last week when we played 3 rucks + Jones... and had one of the rucks as our sub. He just couldn't work out why you would do this considering how slow a team we are.

[Sedat]

Fair enough, but why bother offering him n insulting one year deal?
I don't see why Will could not play a significant role as 1st ruck for 2 or 3 years, and help mentor Roughy, Campbell and Cordy.
I think that's the win-win situation.

We reward a loyal servant and provide our young ruck talent with an excellent learning environment. In 2 years time hopefully they are increasingly eased into a more prominent role.
If you want to use the Hudson example of late blooming, he started his AFL career at 25, came to the kennel at 29 and gave us 4 years of excellent service - he was as instrumental as anyone in getting us from bottom 4 to top 4 in the space of 12 months (and staying there for the next 3 years). He's still providing good service for Brisbane this year, even after virtually no pre-season because he'd effectively retired.

Right here and now, Minson is a couple of years younger than Hudson when he arrived at the kennel, is only now entering his ruck prime and could be our key ruckman for the next 5-6 seasons, so the offer of a one-year contract is frankly absurd. Whatever we get for him will be significant unders and all of Campbell, Roughead and Cordy are frankly not ready to assume the brutal, day-in-day-out responsibility of no. 1 ruck at senior level over the course of a full season. Realistically we could next be contending with Minson still at or near his peak as a ruckman, we've invested 10 years' development into him, and we seemingly are happy to piss this 10 years down the drain. For mine, it would have to be the deal of the century to even consider it.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

If you want to use the Hudson example of late blooming, he started his AFL career at 25, came to the kennel at 29 and gave us 4 years of excellent service - he was as instrumental as anyone in getting us from bottom 4 to top 4 in the space of 12 months
(and staying there for the next 3 years). He's still providing good service for Brisbane this year, even after virtually no pre-season because he'd effectively retired. Right here and now, Minson is a couple of years younger than Hudson when he arrived at the kennel, is only now entering his ruck prime and could be our key ruckman for the next 5-6 seasons, so the offer of a one-year contract is frankly absurd. Whatever we get for him will be significant unders and all of Campbell, Roughesd and Cordy are frankly not ready to assume the brutal, day-in-day-out responsibility of no. 1 ruck at senior level over the course of a full season. Realistically we could next be contending with Minson still at or near his peak as a ruckman, we've invested 10 years' development into him, and we seemingly are happy to piss this 10 years down the drain. For mine, it would have to be the deal of the century to even consider it.

I agree. I do not want us to entertain trading Minson. Having said that I would totally understand why Will would want to leave given the club's lack of support for him this year.

[BulldogBelle]

We will not retain Minson, frankly it's becoming quite obvious that we are a poorly run club, we continue to make very bad decisions. We do have a right to feel victimized over Cal Ward and Harbrow, but a one year deal is ridiculous, considering that Addison, Gia and Cross both got two immediately - and they have very little value on the market. (GWS/GC would probably take Cross)

It's not like he is a struggling aged veteran, he's the dominant ruck at our club (and one of the best in the league) with a couple of very good looking prospects hunting for his position too.

If he was at Collingwood/Carlton/Essendon, he'd likely be tied up by now. But he isn't, and we are going to lose him because of it.

[Ghost Dog]

I would not like to see Minson go, we will be left with a bunch of 21 year olds that are not up to it at this stage. I know its early days but how can they offer Minson 1 year when Addison is offered a two year:eek:

I am really concerned with our club and the way they manage players.

Have to agree. Will has done a pretty good job or everything you could ask from a fan. He battles hard and has a few years left in him. But we always seem to stuff these things up, so I guess he will go to GWS and we'll get shafted in return. Opps! I became cynical!

[Mantis]

It is believed early indications from Minson’s initial discussions that only a one-year deal is on offer to the Dogs big man and without any significant financial increase from what he is already earning.


I skipped over this part and only just saw it in 'the age' article.... Is this really the case?

If it is Minson should tell us to stick it where the sun don't shine... As St07 points out we can give a battler like Addison a 2yr deal, but don't reward Minson who is performing well with something better.

Our contract negiotations and dealings over the past 3 or 4 years (since Clayton left) have been nothing short of shithouse... It's *!*!*!*!ing embarrassing that we can continue to *!*!*!*! up every deal we sign/ attempt to sign.

What the hell is going on down there?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We will not retain Minson, frankly it's becoming quite obvious that we are a poorly run club, we continue to make very bad decisions. We do have a right to feel victimized over Cal Ward and Harbrow, but a one year deal is ridiculous, considering that Addison, Gia and Cross both got two immediately - and they have very little value on the market. (GWS/GC would probably take Cross)

It's not like he is a struggling aged veteran, he's the dominant ruck at our club (and one of the best in the league) with a couple of very good looking prospects hunting for his position too.

If he was at Collingwood/Carlton/Essendon, he'd likely be tied up by now. But he isn't, and we are going to lose him because of it.

Agree. 100%t
I haven't seen anything from our front office this year either that would fill me with confidence going forward or that at least would show that they are getting better with handling contracts.
This is just the icing on an already unpalatable cake for me if this media report is true.

[LostDoggy]

Now I understand

We recruit Will and wait 10 years for him to reach an elite level (well almost) so then we trade him so we can get a young bloke and wait 10 years for him..................................

God save us all.

[Desipura]

Will is in career best form, it still nowhere at the elite level, never will be.
He is alot more developed than any ruckman on our list, he also offers us more at the trade table than any other ruckman.
IF we are smart about it, we should trade him to another club and further strengthen our list with some quality kids, its a big IF.

[hotdog]

I will wait for something a little more official than a speculative piece of journalism on a not so credible website before I throw my toys out of the cot on this one. I'd hate to see the big fella go to GWS and if it was even looking like a remote possibility I would like to see the club make a big issue of it in the media in an attempt to persuade the AFL to sweeten the deal. As it stands there has been no official interest shown by GWS, no indication Will is considering leaving the club and no official confirmation on the details of a contract renewal put forward by the Dogs. I shall watch with interest how this all pans out however I am comfortable that the club would not let a 10 yr investment walk out the door without a yelp. Surely not. Just putting it out there but could there be a possibility we are looking at Grundy in draft?

[Mantis]

I will wait for something a little more official than a speculative piece of journalism on a not so credible website before I throw my toys out of the cot on this one.

It was also reported in 'the age' today... Is that credible enough?

[Bulldog4life]

If you want to use the Hudson example of late blooming, he started his AFL career at 25, came to the kennel at 29 and gave us 4 years of excellent service - he was as instrumental as anyone in getting us from bottom 4 to top 4 in the space of 12 months (and staying there for the next 3 years). He's still providing good service for Brisbane this year, even after virtually no pre-season because he'd effectively retired.

Right here and now, Minson is a couple of years younger than Hudson when he arrived at the kennel, is only now entering his ruck prime and could be our key ruckman for the next 5-6 seasons, so the offer of a one-year contract is frankly absurd. Whatever we get for him will be significant unders and all of Campbell, Roughead and Cordy are frankly not ready to assume the brutal, day-in-day-out responsibility of no. 1 ruck at senior level over the course of a full season. Realistically we could next be contending with Minson still at or near his peak as a ruckman, we've invested 10 years' development into him, and we seemingly are happy to piss this 10 years down the drain. For mine, it would have to be the deal of the century to even consider it.

Great post. Will is now reaching his prime and some want to get rid of him. Amazing.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't be believing the 1 year deal crap thats getting reported. Simply untrue.

[Desipura]

Great post. Will is now reaching his prime and some want to get rid of him. Amazing.

If it means potentially strengthening our list, would you consider it?
Or are you willing to wait longer for success?
Either way, we need to really cut deep into our list at seasons end, too many players are not long term AFL players on our list.

[AndrewP6]

I wouldn't be believing the 1 year deal crap thats getting reported. Simply untrue.

Is that you, Mr Fantasia?

Can you say with certainty that it's untrue or is it something you think is untrue?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Will is in career best form, it still nowhere at the elite level, never will be.
He is alot more developed than any ruckman on our list, he also offers us more at the trade table than any other ruckman.
IF we are smart about it, we should trade him to another club and further strengthen our list with some quality kids, its a big IF.

Minson offers nothing at the trade table.

Who would trade for an unrestricted free agent when you can just take them for nothing?

[bornadog]

If it means potentially strengthening our list, would you consider it?
Or are you willing to wait longer for success?
Either way, we need to really cut deep into our list at seasons end, too many players are not long term AFL players on our list.

How will we strengthen our list? picking an unproven 18 year old, sure.:rolleyes:

[Ozza]

Well I just hope we can keep Will. As others have said - we've invested 10 years into him. He's playing well now that he's finally taken over the no.1 ruck spot and we should realistically be seeing his best football over the next 2 or 3 years at least.

Hopefully the club does enough to keep him. Not sure if he's married but the woman he was with is/was an athelete and originally a Victorian (Madeleine Pape), and he owns a cafe with Bob and Gia - so hopefully these aid our cause in keeping him in Melbourne.

[The Pie Man]

IF we've only offered one year to Wil (while others receive more generous deals) then sure he should look around - but all shouldn't be considered lost.

I don't believe we offered Gia a 2 year deal off the bat last year (correct me if I'm wrong those in the know) yet we caved and did it anyway

So if I was Wil I'd be anticipating a conversation like this.

Club : we stand by our offer of one year.

Wil : carn, give me two.

Club : OK

And can we please stop linking the Pearce thing with his contract status?

[Mantis]

I don't believe we offered Gia a 2 year deal off the bat last year (correct me if I'm wrong those in the know) yet we caved and did it anyway



It was widely reported that we offered Boyd a new 2 yr deal and Cross & Gia 1yr deals.

Boyd signed for 3 years and Gia & Cross got 2 years.

Go figure.

[The Pie Man]

It was widely reported that we offered Boyd a new 2 yr deal and Cross & Gia 1yr deals.

Boyd signed for 3 years and Gia & Cross got 2 years.

Go figure.

So based on this precedent, Wil should be able to swing another year into a new deal with little trouble. For one, he'd actually be worth it

[bornadog]

So based on this precedent, Wil should be able to swing another year into a new deal with little trouble. For one, he'd actually be worth it

In fact I would give him three and make him a Bulldog for life. I read somewhere he said he loves the Club and wants to finish his career there.

Besides Maric who spends an average of 91% on the ground, (Will 79%), he has the highest clearances, CP, Tackles, Disposals of all the top ten ruckman. He sits 4th for hitouts, again with less time on the ground than the three above him.

[Bulldog4life]

If it means potentially strengthening our list, would you consider it?
Or are you willing to wait longer for success?
Either way, we need to really cut deep into our list at seasons end, too many players are not long term AFL players on our list.

At this point in time we haven't a ruckman that can replace Will. Yes we can cut deep into our list but let's keep the most consistent players of which Will is now one.

[Desipura]

Minson offers nothing at the trade table.

Who would trade for an unrestricted free agent when you can just take them for nothing?

What if more than one club want him?

[Desipura]

How will we strengthen our list? picking an unproven 18 year old, sure.:rolleyes:

Do you invest in shares? If you do, do you sell when the prices have dropped or when they are still have currency?
Do you sometimes take a risk and back yourself or do you take the safe option?

[bornadog]

Do you invest in shares? If you do, do you sell when the prices have dropped or when they are still have currency?
Do you sometimes take a risk and back yourself or do you take the safe option?

I don't swap my blue chip shares for speculative shares.;)

[GVGjr]

Do you invest in shares? If you do, do you sell when the prices have dropped or when they are still have currency?
Do you sometimes take a risk and back yourself or do you take the safe option?

Do you have an emotional investment in your shares because I don't?
I personally never buy speculative shares just blue chip shares that due to market pressures at the time are under valued versus their real worth.
With that in mind, I don't see the link between the buying and selling of shares and the trading of players.

You're keen to get rid of Minson and that's fine but the market value you are putting on him is simply unrealistic and the comparison to the share market doesn't fit.

Unless someone is prepared to pay over the odds for him I wouldn't be keen to let him go.
I'm lukewarm on how Campbell will perform, Roughead hasn't quite done enough to have confidence he can handle the job and I don't think Cordy is much more than a part time ruck option. I'd prefer not to throw the likes of Jones or Williams into the ruck as well so I'm more than comfortable that Minson stays on the list especially after a solid season.

[Hotdog60]

The thing is also, Cordy has had shoulder issues so has Roughead. Minno is in far better condition than any of our other talls. Minno is also a better kick for goal.

We need to keep Minno for at least 2 more years until the others catch up.

[GVGjr]

If it means potentially strengthening our list, would you consider it?
Or are you willing to wait longer for success?
Either way, we need to really cut deep into our list at seasons end, too many players are not long term AFL players on our list.

The concept is fine but without detailing some of the pieces you think might be available it's just a concept.

Despite my posts over the last few years about cutting deeper into the list, right at this moment I think 7 would be the highest number on the primary list players I would be prepared to drop.

By the way, not every player on the list has to have long term value. Having a good core of experienced guys on the list is actually good for the younger guys.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What if more than one club want him?

He goes to the one he picks.

The competition is for Minson's signature, not our trade.

[chef]

He goes to the one he picks.

The competition is for Minson's signature, not our trade.

Yep, isn't the only way we would get anything for him is if he goes to GWS?

[Desipura]

I don't swap my blue chip shares for speculative shares.;)

Minson is not blue chip. His currency though has been inflated due to having a good season as well as the shortage of mature aged ruck man at other clubs.
If we got a good deal, I would certainly look at doing a deal, otherwise we keep him.
That's the difference between how you rate Minson as opposed to how I rate him.

[LostDoggy]

Minson is not blue chip. His currency though has been inflated due to having a good season as well as the shortage of mature aged ruck man at other clubs.
If we got a good deal, I would certainly look at doing a deal, otherwise we keep him.
That's the difference between how you rate Minson as opposed to how I rate him.

You don't rate him but you want a good deal for him?

[Desipura]

Where did I say I don't rate him?
Suggest you go back and read my posts before misquoting me.

[LostDoggy]

Where did I say I don't rate him?
Suggest you go back and read my posts before misquoting me.

No need. We know you never rated him. You've been an advocate for trading him for years now.
You obviously rate Campbell and Roughead as better prospects.
Trading a quality ruck isn't just a risk in a speculative draft pick.

[Desipura]

12 months ago nobody wanted him.
His rating is inflated this year due mainly to the lack of mature ruckman.
The club rates Campbell highly and I don't think both of them can play regularly in the same team.

[bornadog]

Minson is not blue chip. His currency though has been inflated due to having a good season as well as the shortage of mature aged ruck man at other clubs.
If we got a good deal, I would certainly look at doing a deal, otherwise we keep him.
That's the difference between how you rate Minson as opposed to how I rate him.


Where did I say I don't rate him?
Suggest you go back and read my posts before misquoting me.

Why do you have this obsession with wanting to trade him? You have to look at the balance of the side and there is a big gap between Minson and the next best ruckman on our list, yet Minson is rated in the top 5 ruckman in the AFL at this stage. (based on performance in 2012)

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

12 months ago nobody wanted him.
His rating is inflated this year due mainly to the lack of mature ruckman.
The club rates Campbell highly and I don't think both of them can play regularly in the same team.

The club may rate Campbell highly, but the fact remains he has played 2 games of football. Is the club really prepared to allow its only blue chip ruck option to leave on the basis of expectation that a 2 game rooki listed player is going to be able to lead the ruck from next year? I think it is severely stretching credulity thinking that Roughy would even be able to handle anything more than 2nd ruck in 2013and 2014.

[Maddog37]

If we get a good trade option then I would consider it but it would need to be genuinely good. I would not like to be held to ransom by a massive offer from another club and would let him walk if it impacted on our ability to pay the remainder of the group fairly.

I like Will but on talent and natural football ability then Ruff and Tom appear better to me. Big if on whether they have the heart yet though.

[Desipura]

If we get a good trade option then I would consider it but it would need to be genuinely good. I would not like to be held to ransom by a massive offer from another club and would let him walk if it impacted on our ability to pay the remainder of the group fairly.

I like Will but on talent and natural football ability then Ruff and Tom appear better to me. Big if on whether they have the heart yet though.

I would have to agree with you.

[Desipura]

Why do you have this obsession with wanting to trade him? You have to look at the balance of the side and there is a big gap between Minson and the next best ruckman on our list, yet Minson is rated in the top 5 ruckman in the AFL at this stage. (based on performance in 2012)

Obsession is a strong word. Minsons value is inflated and as I have stated numerous times, if it was a good deal, I would definitely look at a trade.

[Ozza]

I would have said Roughead and Campbell's value is inflated - if you are suggesting they are anywhere in the ball park of being able to fill Minson's shoes as 1st Ruck for the next 2 or 3 years.

Teams without a competitive ruckman are routinely smashed in today's footy. We need to retain Minson.

[anfo27]

I would have said Roughead and Campbell's value is inflated - if you are suggesting they are anywhere in the ball park of being able to fill Minson's shoes as 1st Ruck for the next 2 or 3 years.

Teams without a competitive ruckman are routinely smashed in today's footy. We need to retain Minson.

We have been getting smashed & Minson has been playing. He will not stop us from getting the odd thrashing. Minson has done a good job this year but lets be honest he is no world beater

[LostDoggy]

Campbell, Roughead and especially Cordy are not ready to take the mantle of the number one ruck job, and if we lose Minson I fear for those guys' development. Coupled with a lack of an experienced key forward, all of our young ruck-forwards are up against experienced, hardened competitors every single game, no matter where they're played on the field. I'd argue that Minson is one of the most important players on our list at the moment, and we cannot afford to lose him.

[Maddog37]

I agree but if the trade was sweet enough I would take the risk.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I would have said Roughead and Campbell's value is inflated - if you are suggesting they are anywhere in the ball park of being able to fill Minson's shoes as 1st Ruck for the next 2 or 3 years.

Teams without a competitive ruckman are routinely smashed in today's footy. We need to retain Minson.

Absolutely. Also whilst Campbell may in years to come turn out to be a very good ruckman, he may also just as likely not. He has played all of 2 games.
I think we would be crazy to trade away one of the only players to actually improve this year on a roll of the dice that Campbell may or may not be our long term ruckman.

Will has many good seasons ahead, has rarely been injured, and for the first time since he has been given an extended run as our premier ruckman, has actually shown he is in the top bracket of his position in the league.

And the media are reporting that he qualifies as an unrestricted free agent, who can sign with anyone he chooses, meaning all we would get is an AFL determined compensatory pick, likely to be end of second round - in my opinion.

To lose him, to even advocate losing him this way is madness, and I think we would be much better served as a club by having him with us, and hopefully assisting Campbell and Roughy to develop into the type of players who can take his position in 2-3 years time.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I agree but if the trade was sweet enough I would take the risk.

What trade? It would seem from numerous reports he is available as an unrestricted free agent.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Campbell, Roughead and especially Cordy are not ready to take the mantle of the number one ruck job, and if we lose Minson I fear for those guys' development. Coupled with a lack of an experienced key forward, all of our young ruck-forwards are up against experienced, hardened competitors every single game, no matter where they're played on the field. I'd argue that Minson is one of the most important players on our list at the moment, and we cannot afford to lose him.

Completely agree, We should sign Will (if he would even consider it) to at least a 2 year deal, and if we really are keen to offload a ruckman I would offer up Campbell- who based on only 2 games we have no idea how he is going to develop. He could be good, he may not. I'd argue that comparing head to head on their first two games in AFL football, Minson showed more than what Campbell has. Yet on the basis of this, some here have annointed him as our first ruck next year.
What rot!, He hasn't even yet got the fitness to play a whole game as first ruck, let alone anchor the spot for a whole season. I'd argue even with another pre-season under his belt he still at best would be a bit part ruckman next year.

[Lake Superior]

I wouldn't be upset if we were to lose Minson as long as the offer was right. It will be a risk but hawthorn took similar risks at the start of there rebuild and that worked for them. If he was to go and Cambell, Cordy and Roughead are not ready for number 1 ruck would we use a rookie pick/late draft pick on a developed ruckman? (Like Stephenson from geelong) Who could take the ruck duty while the others develop.

[jeemak]

I wouldn't be upset if we were to lose Minson as long as the offer was right. It will be a risk but hawthorn took similar risks at the start of there rebuild and that worked for them. If he was to go and Cambell, Cordy and Roughead are not ready for number 1 ruck would we use a rookie pick/late draft pick on a developed ruckman? (Like Stephenson from geelong) Who could take the ruck duty while the others develop.

But Hawthorn had Buddy and Roughead up forward, and excellent midfielders (that were able to hide defensive inbalances because they were good enough) to see them through. We don't have that.

I think Will can play at least another five years for our club, and I think we should hang on to all of our taller players in that area for at least two more years to sort out which of them will be able to take us forward.

Supported with Will, I think that both Campbell and Roughead can become excellent players, though it isn't going to happen for another two or so years. I've watched Roughead closely this year, and while he may let himself down with some of his usage of the ball when forward, I strongly believe that he will be a very versatile player once he matures and gains confidence in his ability.

Our Ruck division looks as if it's the only place on the ground right now that we have contingencies, aside from the midfield, for the next few years. I'd prefer us to capitalise on that and focus on our defense and forward structures, as well as bringing outside users on to the list.

[Lake Superior]

But Hawthorn had Buddy and Roughead up forward, and excellent midfielders (that were able to hide defensive inbalances because they were good enough) to see them through. We don't have that.

I think Will can play at least another five years for our club, and I think we should hang on to all of our taller players in that area for at least two more years to sort out which of them will be able to take us forward.

Supported with Will, I think that both Campbell and Roughead can become excellent players, though it isn't going to happen for another two or so years. I've watched Roughead closely this year, and while he may let himself down with some of his usage of the ball when forward, I strongly believe that he will be a very versatile player once he matures and gains confidence in his ability.

Our Ruck division looks as if it's the only place on the ground right now that we have contingencies, aside from the midfield, for the next few years. I'd prefer us to capitalise on that and focus on our defense and forward structures, as well as bringing outside users on to the list.

I'm talking about when hawthorn traded away Thompson and other experienced players(forgotten there names) for draft picks etc. It gave them a few years of pain but also gave them the ultimate reward. I would only consider Will going if we got value in return.

[Sockeye Salmon]

What part of 'free agent' don't you lot understand?

We cannot trade Minson. If he decides to walk, all we can get is whatever compo the AFL offers, and that will be about half what he's worth.

[Lake Superior]

What part of 'free agent' don't you lot understand?

We cannot trade Minson. If he decides to walk, all we can get is whatever compo the AFL offers, and that will be about half what he's worth.

Is the compensation worked out by the amount of money being paid? Like Wards compensation. Or is it a different formula for free agents?

[Rocco Jones]

What part of 'free agent' don't you lot understand?

We cannot trade Minson. If he decides to walk, all we can get is whatever compo the AFL offers, and that will be about half what he's worth.

That's right. Like it or not, we can't expect free agency compo to be 100% fair. That's why you keep players.

I really think Will is underrated. I was a long time critic of his but I always thought Hudson's limitations held Minson down. Still, I'm surprised at how well Will is going as the 1st ruck, really shows the enormous difference in roles between a 1st and 2nd ruck.

I believe Will's rating is hurt by the rest of his career. If he just came out of nowhere and 2012 was his first year in the AFL, he would be rated very highly. Top handful of rucks over the season.

I am relatively confident in our ruck depth but I don't believe having Will will hold them back next year. If we want to trade him, having him contracted will give us more power anyway.

[bulldogsman]

What part of 'free agent' don't you lot understand?

We cannot trade Minson. If he decides to walk, all we can get is whatever compo the AFL offers, and that will be about half what he's worth.

Firstly if he doesn't walk we can trade him (obviously).
Secondly if he wants to go to GWS, don't they need our permission as they have already taken 1 uncontracted player? If so, we could work out a trade.

I hope he stays.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

What part of 'free agent' don't you lot understand?

We cannot trade Minson. If he decides to walk, all we can get is whatever compo the AFL offers, and that will be about half what he's worth.

Amen.

[Remi Moses]

Can't see the logic of Will going to GWS.
Maybe Collingwood might come into the equation?
He's 27 and the Giants won't be a proposition for a while,they look promising now but you'll find next season and with so many kids second yr blues might be an issue.

[Eastdog]

Can't see the logic of Will going to GWS.
Maybe Collingwood might come into the equation?
He's 27 and the Giants won't be a proposition for a while,they look promising now but you'll find next season and with so many kids second yr blues might be an issue.

Do you think Collingwood would want him? They need a backup ruckman. Who would we get in return? Or do you think he'll probably end up staying with us at the end of the day.

[Hotdog60]

I would keep him and offer a 3 year deal. Out of our current ruck prospects Will kicked 3 goals against the Bombers and in 1 game caught up with Roughead who has 4 and Cordy who plays forward only has 6. Roughead is avg 8.2 hitouts a game to Wills 29.

The young guys need time to develop so we need to keep him. Also who's not to say that next year or the one after that Will turns out to be all Australia form by growing into the number one role.

[LostDoggy]

Do you think Collingwood would want him? They need a backup ruckman. Who would we get in return? Or do you think he'll probably end up staying with us at the end of the day.

Collingwood need a new ruckman. Jolly is nearing the end and Woods never was or will be.
Add Geelong, Hawks, Brisbane and possibly a few others.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Firstly if he doesn't walk we can trade him (obviously).
Secondly if he wants to go to GWS, don't they need our permission as they have already taken 1 uncontracted player? If so, we could work out a trade.

I hope he stays.

If he wants to stay, we can't trade him (or any other player) against his will and if we did go to him and say, "we want to trade you to GWS" he would be straight on the phone to his manager to offer himself to Collingwood or Hawthorn.


WRT the second point, as a free agent he can go anywhere he wants including GWS because he wouldn't count as an uncontracted player.

The AFL have stated the compensation will be purely based on age and contract but we have already seen that they might say that's the case but they simply do whatever they please.

[Ghost Dog]

I would keep him and offer a 3 year deal. Out of our current ruck prospects Will kicked 3 goals against the Bombers and in 1 game caught up with Roughead who has 4 and Cordy who plays forward only has 6. Roughead is avg 8.2 hitouts a game to Wills 29.

The young guys need time to develop so we need to keep him. Also who's not to say that next year or the one after that Will turns out to be all Australia form by growing into the number one role.

If we can offer Hooper 2, Cross 2, or Djekurra 3, surely we can offer Will 2 or 3!

[bulldogsman]

If he wants to stay, we can't trade him (or any other player) against his will and if we did go to him and say, "we want to trade you to GWS" he would be straight on the phone to his manager to offer himself to Collingwood or Hawthorn.


WRT the second point, as a free agent he can go anywhere he wants including GWS because he wouldn't count as an uncontracted player.

The AFL have stated the compensation will be purely based on age and contract but we have already seen that they might say that's the case but they simply do whatever they please.

Understood.

Free agency sucks

[bulldogsman]

If we can offer Hooper 2, Cross 2, or Djekurra 3, surely we can offer Will 2 or 3!

If the whole 1 year deal is true, we are begging for Minson to leave. It's hard to believe it is true given how generous the club has been with other blokes.

[AndrewP6]

If the whole 1 year deal is true, we are begging for Minson to leave. It's hard to believe it is true given how generous the club has been with other blokes.

It's been on the Internet, it must be true! :D

[chef]

Understood.

Free agency sucks

The players are apparently going to be pushing for it to be now 6 seasons before your available for FA.

[w3design]

If we could upgrade Mulligan and Hooper and give them 2 year contracts, we should offer Will a contract for life.
We have no one ready to replace him like for like for at least 2 more years.
If there is the slightest chance he would want to leave under the Free Agency arrangements we would be criminally negligent not to sign him up, so at the very least clubs would be forced to trade for him rather than simply taking him as a FA. Because if that occurs the AFL will simply insert another screw in our coffin lid.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Now I understand

We recruit Will and wait 10 years for him to reach an elite level (well almost) so then we trade him so we can get a young bloke and wait 10 years for him..................................

God save us all.

EJ - Do you think that the Club and Coach all the way along had made it's mind up at the start of the year that it was to be Minsons last at the Club?

That would IMO explain the use of the tall Rucks and Forwards this year.

As much as we all agree Minson is having a fantastic year, he will to be around when we next make a tilt at the big one (based on this years performance) so maybe the club is a little smarter than what we give it credit for. Maybe we took King on to teach Minson the Geelong way this could put the Cats in the running and making his value higher yet again with Multinle clubs wanting him.

I'm not uncomfortable that we trade him as I think as the game goes on Minson would be less able to keep up and play multiple roles and we should be looking for a better option. One thing we will miss is his aggression as that is the thing I think we will miss the most with life after Will.

Good luck to him and I hope it works out well for the big guy.

[FrediKanoute]

I wouldn't be upset if we were to lose Minson as long as the offer was right. It will be a risk but hawthorn took similar risks at the start of there rebuild and that worked for them. If he was to go and Cambell, Cordy and Roughead are not ready for number 1 ruck would we use a rookie pick/late draft pick on a developed ruckman? (Like Stephenson from geelong) Who could take the ruck duty while the others develop.

If we lost Minson we would be spending at least another 3 to 5 seasons in the doledrums. He would have to be in the top 5 in our B&F this year.

[gohardorgohome]

I think Will has had his best season this year. He would be sorely lost if he did go. He comes across as a true clubman. I think we should offer him a two year deal.

[LostDoggy]

I think Will has had his best season this year. He would be sorely lost if he did go. He comes across as a true clubman. I think we should offer him a two year deal.

Devil's advocate. Can we accommodate Will, Roughead, Cordy and Campbell on our list? If Will stays one of the remainder may leave due to lack of opportunities. I think ruckmen reach their peak in their late 20's so like that we are warehousing some likely players, but this strategy can sometimes backfire - see Geelong with Mumford.

[bulldogsman]

Devil's advocate. Can we accommodate Will, Roughead, Cordy and Campbell on our list? If Will stays one of the remainder may leave due to lack of opportunities. I think ruckmen reach their peak in their late 20's so like that we are warehousing some likely players, but this strategy can sometimes backfire - see Geelong with Mumford.

I think we can since Cordy is looked at as a forward. I'd still look at trading Roughead though for a mini draft pick or a Beams/Boak. We would probably need to give up our Ward compo as well.

[Mantis]

I think we can since Cordy is looked at as a forward. I'd still look at trading Roughead though for a mini draft pick or a Beams/Boak. We would probably need to give up our Ward compo as well.

If I was Roughy I would be asking for a trade due to lack of opportunities.

His treatment over the past month has been terrible.... What was the point of flying him to Perth when the kid needs to play?

[Desipura]

If I was Roughy I would be asking for a trade due to lack of opportunities.

His treatment over the past month has been terrible.... What was the point of flying him to Perth when the kid needs to play?

If I was the club, I would be ensuring Roughy does not get traded.

[LostDoggy]

If I was the club, I would be ensuring Roughy does not get traded.

Yes. We know your view

[Desipura]

Yes. We know your view
I was unaware that you were the spokesperson for everyone on here.

[bulldogsman]

If I was Roughy I would be asking for a trade due to lack of opportunities.

His treatment over the past month has been terrible.... What was the point of flying him to Perth when the kid needs to play?

He should be playing in the ruck for Willy or be taking Campbell's spot. Campbell is not fit enough.

[LostDoggy]

I know that this may be a risky thing to do...but why not experiment with Big Will at FF for a game or 2 this season?
He seems to be the only player up forward who is able to put up some sort of fight in a marking contest, and with Tom Campbell and Roughead in ruck, it could work...
Just a thought...

[azabob]

I know that this may be a risky thing to do...but why not experiment with Big Will at FF for a game or 2 this season?
He seems to be the only player up forward who is able to put up some sort of fight in a marking contest, and with Tom Campbell and Roughead in ruck, it could work...
Just a thought...

It didn't work a few years back, what has changed for it to work this time round?

[LostDoggy]

It didn't work a few years back, what has changed for it to work this time round?

the game a few weeks ago when he was rucking all day but still managed to get forward and be our most dangerous tall springs to mind. i think he kicked 3?

[Bulldog4life]

It didn't work a few years back, what has changed for it to work this time round?

He is a better player now.

[Sedat]

It didn't work a few years back, what has changed for it to work this time round?Kicked nearly 30 goals in 2008 - I reckon it was nowhere near the failure it was portrayed to be. In fact, had he kicked a couple of goals from very strong contested marks that he should have nailed in the 3rd qtr against Geelong in the PF that year, it would have been seen as a successful experiment. The difference between success and failure is a fine line sometimes.

Dawes has kicked single digits in 2012, likewise Jones for us. Give either player 30 goals and they would be seen in a far better light.

[LostDoggy]

I was unaware that you were the spokesperson for everyone on here.

Gee, a little touchy today.

[Rocco Jones]

Kicked nearly 30 goals in 2008 - I reckon it was nowhere near the failure it was portrayed to be. In fact, had he kicked a couple of goals from very strong contested marks that he should have nailed in the 3rd qtr against Geelong in the PF that year, it would have been seen as a successful experiment. The difference between success and failure is a fine line sometimes.

Dawes has kicked single digits in 2012, likewise Jones for us. Give either player 30 goals and they would be seen in a far better light.

Yep. I think the 'failure' was relative to how good our side was despite the lack of a key-forward. We really wanted/needed a key-forward to push us to a flag and the lack of one affected our rating of Will.

Right now Will is our best key-forward by a mile and our best rucks by as many miles as you want. It says so very so, so much about his improvement but even more our horrible decline how he is without a doubt, one of our best players.