Game Day 2012 - R15 Western Bulldogs vs Fremantle

[BulldogBelle]

This is the discussion thread for our Sunday afternoon game against Fremantle at PS.

My predictions are:

The Dogs by 2 points
BOG : Matthew Boyd
Ryan Grifen to kick the first goal.

[SlimPickens]

Dogs 7pts

BOG- Wallis

First Goal- Dickson

[LostDoggy]

Fremantle by 19 points

BOG: Matthew Boyd

First goal: Dickson

[AndrewP6]

Fremantle by 26
BOG Griffen
First goal Willbur

[craigsahibee]

Fremantle by 27
BOG S Hill
First Goal K Bradley (just a small indication of how we are travelling at the moment)

[Greystache]

Fremantle by 25
BOG- Dahlhaus
First Goal- Tutt

[Go_Dogs]

Dogs by 7
BOG Griff
First goal Dahlhaus

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Freo by 38
Dogs 1st goal Wallis
Dogs BOG: Cross

[bornadog]

Freo all the way

BOG: Libba

First Goal: Dicko

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Freo by more than 10 Goals

Best on ground for the Dogs, Lake

First Goal for Dogs, Higgo in the second quarter

[LostDoggy]

I think the dogs might get this one.
Dogs by 22
BOG : Dickson 6 goals
First goal: Someone on the run......Libba.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I think the dogs might get this one.
Dogs by 22
BOG : Dickson 6 goals
First goal: Someone on the run......Libba.

I wish I had your confidence, after the last month I can't see anything but a smashing coming on

[azabob]

The one thing we have going for us is Lyon defensive nature, could be a nil all draw, but having said that when Lyon was at st.kilda they always managed to kick a big score against us.

[Ghost Dog]

The one thing we have going for us is Lyon defensive nature, could be a nil all draw, but having said that when Lyon was at st.kilda they always managed to kick a big score against us.

He's not playing that way these days. See Freo last week. They will try and come out early, run over us and take the wind out of our sails. We have to get the ball in hand and be prepared to retain possession. After last week, can't see us fighting to the end if we don't have a good first quarter.

[DOG GOD]

Freo by 46 pts
Bog - Boyd
1st goal - Higgins.

[Eastdog]

I never tip against my team Dogs by 3 points BOG: Ryan Griffen First Goal: Luke Dahlhaus

[LostDoggy]

Purely tipping with my head here folks.

Freo by 56
BOG: Griff
First Goal: Cordy

[bornadog]

Tutt is the sub, No late changes

[ReLoad]

One thing I do know, regardless of the games outcome, Foxtel are the most inept bunch of Football broadcasters in the known universe. Macca, Im sorry mate, I would have loved to have heard you but sadly I cant lipread.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

One thing I do know, regardless of the games outcome, Foxtel are the most inept bunch of Football broadcasters in the known universe. Macca, Im sorry mate, I would have loved to have heard you but sadly I cant lipread.

This.

Foxtel's broadcast is pathetic. I can't wait for them to show replays during live play too. :rolleyes:

[Eastdog]

Struggling to get it into our forward area. That's our challenge.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well yet again, like a broken record this year, our disposal is woeful.
Not a very good start by Gilbee.

[Eastdog]

Good mark to Minson dissappointing result. It's quite windy in Perth.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Nice work by Gilbee to intercept and quickly get it to Higgins for our first.

[azabob]

Did Gilbee start forward, Is Minson first ruck?

[Eastdog]

1 goal each so far. Evidence that the defensive press by Freo is in action.

[bornadog]

Sick of these umpires, a gift goal on the siren.

[Bulldog4life]

Sick of these umpires, a gift goal on the siren.

Agree. Great defensive punch. Arms weren't dragged at all.

[bornadog]

Agree. Great defensive punch. Arms weren't dragged at all.

Its almost impossible now to spoil a mark in AFL.

[Twodogs]

Sick of these umpires, a gift goal on the siren.


Agree. Great defensive punch. Arms weren't dragged at all.



Awful decision wasnt it?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Sick of these umpires, a gift goal on the siren.

It was a free kick IMO but what I can't understand is why they don't run and ouch with a straight arm. When you use the round arm you are always going to take an arm out

[Twodogs]

Suprised to see that Gilbee had 8 touchs in he first quarter.

[Eastdog]

Doing ok so far but the fear is that Freo will go away with it as our forward structure is very weak. If they play the defensive press we are always in with a chance but we have to stick with them.

[Eastdog]

Good effort from Howard there.

[westdog54]

I must be dreaming, was that a 360 blind turn from big Will?

[westdog54]

Freo looking a little lazy at the moment, we might pinch a result here if they keep this up. Scrappy possession on both sides sees to be working to our advantage.

[Eastdog]

Dahlhaus with 2 goals from the same spot. Our effort is there we are working harder than Freo at the moment.

[bornadog]

It was a free kick IMO but what I can't understand is why they don't run and ouch with a straight arm. When you use the round arm you are always going to take an arm out

Should never be free, the rule stinks.

Another example, The hands in the back Freo gets a free, versus a push in the back with your body and Higgins doesn't get a free, what is the bloody difference.

[Eastdog]

Should never be free, the rule stinks.

Another example, The hands in the back Freo gets a free, versus a push in the back with your body and Higgins doesn't get a free, what is the bloody difference.

They are so inconsistent the umpires. Holding the ball is another where this inconsistency is shown.

[angelopetraglia]

Howard looking OK today. Offering something across half back.

[westdog54]

That was one of the ugliest end to end goals you'll ever see but workrate has put us in front. Good composure from DJ and Campbell under pressure.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Nice sustained period of effort, being rewarded. Liking the more desperate effort and desire to run by Howard this week, and Djerrkura has shown some poise.

[westdog54]

I tell you what, the interpretation of HTB is fast catching the advantage rule as my pet peeve with the game.

[Eastdog]

Picken been great once again on his opponent.

[Eastdog]

Hate the defensive press style by Freo but we are still close coming up to half time so we are in with a big chance.

[ReLoad]

Smith is going to be a cracker, he's got a lot of work to do on his disposal, but he is seriously committed and runs for second efforts. great stuff.

[westdog54]

Smith is going to be a cracker, he's got a lot of work to do on his disposal, but he is seriously committed and runs for second efforts. great stuff.

A little bit of me dies inside whenever I watch him kick a football. He has an under 8's ball drop. Love how hard he works though.

[Bulldog4life]

You have to love the effort today. As a supporter that is all you want. And hopefully the 4 points of course.:)

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Don't we miss Griffen and Boyd

[Ghost Dog]

Inside 50s just awful. Love the effort but have to damage going in. Well done big will. So important

[Eastdog]

You have to love the effort today. As a supporter that is all you want. And hopefully the 4 points of course.:)

Agree Bulldog4life after the last 2 weeks it is great seeing the effort we are putting in today. It's been a scrappy affair but hopefully we can get the win and some confidence.

[Scraggers]

It's quite cool here (unusually) but the conditions for footy are pretty good. Not much wind either end.

Scrappy game to watch live (probably just as bad on TV).

Shocking crowd ... Probably 30,000ish !!

[Remi Moses]

Work rate excellent .
Pressure good . Tutt for Campbell or Cordy 2nd half.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Should never be free, the rule stinks.

Another example, The hands in the back Freo gets a free, versus a push in the back with your body and Higgins doesn't get a free, what is the bloody difference.

Higgins was ally unlucky but I think Campbell's one was a little worse. It must be the crowd over in WA but the ump's don't like giving us a easy one

[Eastdog]

Higgins was ally unlucky but I think Campbell's one was a little worse. It must be the crowd over in WA but the ump's don't like giving us a easy one

Very true. When West Coast play they also get a good deal with the umpires. How do you guys see the 2nd half going?

[bornadog]

Howard, DJ, Smith, Libba, Wallis, all impressing in the first half. Lets hope we can play with this effort in the second half.

Griffen has to learn to throw a tag or we have to move him out of the midfield and down the goal square.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Very true. When West Coast play they also get a good deal with the umpires. How do you guys see the 2nd half going?

Not sure but if they keep up this effort I will be more than happy. When are the Ump's going to stop the thugs McPhee and Balentyn

[Eastdog]

Pavlich kicks a goal. I hope they don't go out now. He just don't make our opportunities count.

[LostDoggy]

Pavlich kicks a goal. I hope they don't go out now. He just don't make our opportunities count.

Why is Lake not on Pavlich? So dumb.

[Scraggers]

Why is Lake not on Pavlich? So dumb.

Lake is spent ... Markovic has the wheels (not the smarts)

[LostDoggy]

Am listening on the radio and the commentators are giving the impression that we don't seem to know what we are doing out there, true?

[westdog54]

Campbell subbed off for Tutt.

Griffen gets a cheap goal courtesy of a shocking turnover.

[Eastdog]

Campbell subbed off for Tutt.

Griffen gets a cheap goal courtesy of a shocking turnover.

Keeps us in it. But with our forward line you know we won't get a winning score.

[westdog54]

Keeps us in it. But with our forward line you know we won't get a winning score.

Agree, we're relying on silly turnovers to score.

Dickson can really kick up a gear when he needs to. Really threw on the afterburners that time to score.

Geez Pavlich is a great footballer.

[Eastdog]

Agree, we're relying on silly turnovers to score.

Dickson can really kick up a gear when he needs to. Really threw on the afterburners that time to score.

Geez Pavlich is a great footballer.

Pavlich is a star. Dickson I think will be a quality player.

[Eastdog]

Go Dickson. Gets a goal after the siren to keep us in it. We trail by 22 points.

[westdog54]

Pavlich is a star. Dickson I think will be a quality player.

Well worth the late pick.

Great goal on the siren to keep us in touch but we'll have to work extraordinarily hard to reel in the 22 point margin.

[bornadog]

Am listening on the radio and the commentators are giving the impression that we don't seem to know what we are doing out there, true?

No, we we were losing the clearances and CP and not getting our hands on the ball. Freo used the ball better and Pavilch up forward were able to convert. We came back a little at the end to give ourselves a slim chance.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I know Picken is much loved on these forums, and he is a good shut down player, but his decision making and his disposal is incredibly poor. It's always been a weakness, but it's been dreadful this season and particularly today.

Cross and Boyd are no better.

Sherman would be worst on ground which is disappointing.

At least we've found a player in Dickson. Smart, skillful and has a nice burst of speed.

[bornadog]

I would have subbed off Cordy, has only touched the ball twice

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This deserves a separate post -- Markovic should be delisted.

I know he's playing on Pavlich, but he hasn't even won a contest let alone actually contested one. I can't understand Macca's fascination with this bloke, nor some of the posters on this forum. He's VFL standard; absolutely no more.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I would have subbed off Cordy, has only touched the ball twice

Yes me too, at least Campbell hit the pack hard a few times

[bornadog]

Sherman would be worst on ground which is disappointing.

At least we've found a player in Dickson. Smart, skillful and has a nice burst of speed.

Not a good game by Sherman, but surely Cordy with two disposals is the worse player. Love Dickson, has some pace, can kick a ball and is a good find.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Pavlich is a star. Dickson I think will be a quality player.

Why isn't Lake playing on Pavlich?
Hard to believe. The decision to leave Markovic on Pavlich looks like costing us the game.

[Eastdog]

This deserves a separate post -- Markovic should be delisted.

I know he's playing on Pavlich, but he hasn't even won a contest let alone actually contested one. I can't understand Macca's fascination with this bloke, nor some of the posters on this forum. He's VFL standard; absolutely no more.

Who could we target if we actually decide to delist Markovic.

[LostDoggy]

This deserves a separate post -- Markovic should be delisted.



Delisting ..... you're joking surely. Maybe the coach needs delisting for not playing the No1 defender on the No1 forward.

[Eastdog]

Delisting ..... you're joking surely. Maybe the coach needs delisting for not playing the No1 defender on the No1 forward.

Agree with that. Lake should be on Pavlich.

[G-Mo77]

Delisting ..... you're joking surely. Maybe the coach needs delisting for not playing the No1 defender on the No1 forward.

I know they want to free up Brian but that's what it comes down to really. #1 Back should take the #1 forward IMO.

Can we close the book on Cordy as our FF, well at least for now?

[angelopetraglia]

Even when we dominate general play we don't look like scoring goals. So bad for the teams confidence. We have seen it so many times this year. We crack in, have a go, get the ball forward over and over with no reward. It just destroys you. The other team get one against the trend of play and their confidence builds and then they get on top. So painful to watch.

[Eastdog]

Even when we dominate general play we don't look like scoring goals. So bad for the teams confidence. We have seen it so many times this year. We crack in, have a go, get the ball forward over and over with no reward. It just destroys you. The other team get one against the trend of play and their confidence builds and thence get on top. So painful to watch.

So frustrating when your dominating play and don't put on any scoreboard pressure.

[Eastdog]

All over and Frenantle win by 38 points.

[LostDoggy]

Cordy is hopeless. Plays 10 metres behind his opponent and expects our players to kick the ball 70 metres to get to him.

At least Campbell and Minson provide a contest.

[Eastdog]

Cordy is hopeless. Plays 10 metres behind his opponent and expects our players to kick the ball 70 metres to get to him.

At least Campbell and Minson provide a contest.

Yet the commentators think Cordy will be good for us.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I know they want to free up Brian but that's what it comes down to really. #1 Back should take the #1 forward IMO.

Can we close the book on Cordy as our FF, well at least for now?

I can't understand why you stand in the square and call for a deep kick in, why can't the coaching staff see this does not work you need to lead at the ball and get on the move, the number of times Cordy stood still and wanted the ball deep when they had spare blokes back was unbelievable

Move people and lead at the ball crush into another player, just bloody run

[bornadog]

This deserves a separate post -- Markovic should be delisted.

I know he's playing on Pavlich, but he hasn't even won a contest let alone actually contested one. I can't understand Macca's fascination with this bloke, nor some of the posters on this forum. He's VFL standard; absolutely no more.

The two goals he gifted with his stupid little short passes was school boy stuff.

[Hotdog60]

When are going to use a forward to play forward. The amount of times we hung onto the ball and have no moment in the forward fifty. On other note Big Will has improved his marking.

[bornadog]

I can't understand why you stand in the square and call for a deep kick in, why can't the coaching staff see this does not work you need to lead at the ball and get on the move, the number of times Cordy stood still and wanted the ball deep when they had spare blokes back was unbelievable

Move people and lead at the ball crush into another player, just bloody run

He doesn't know how to play that role.

[bornadog]

One of our most inexperienced teams on the park today since the Rhode days:


Total Players By Games
Fremantle Games Western Bulldogs
8 Less than 50 13
6 50 to 99 2
4 100 to 149 3
4 150 or more 4


Average Attributes
Fremantle Attribute Western Bulldogs
189.0cm Height 186.1cm
88.9kg Weight 87.3kg
25yr 10mth Age 24yr 3mth
89.6 Games 64.5

[Maddog37]

Cordy looks ok around the ground but not leading when playing forward is a major issue for him.

Howard was a different player this week. Once he becomes confident he might be pretty handy.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Who could we target if we actually decide to delist Markovic.

I don't watch much of TAC Cup football or of the state leagues, but I would guarantee we'd be able to find somebody equal or better than Markovic.

He just isn't AFL standard in ANY facet of the game.


Delisting ..... you're joking surely. Maybe the coach needs delisting for not playing the No1 defender on the No1 forward.

No.

If I was joking, I'd of said I was joking.

Lake rarely plays on the number one forwards, dating back to the Eade era too. The difference is, Morris could contain some of the big forwards or at least halve contests. Markovic does neither.

[Desipura]

Cordy is hopeless. Plays 10 metres behind his opponent and expects our players to kick the ball 70 metres to get to him.

At least Campbell and Minson provide a contest.

Give him a chance, admittedly he has a lot to learn. He has at times during the year shown he has some potential such as the game against Nth.
Hopeless as you put it should be aimed more so at Markovic

[Desipura]

One of our most inexperienced teams on the park today since the Rhode days:


Total Players By Games
Fremantle Games Western Bulldogs
8 Less than 50 13
6 50 to 99 2
4 100 to 149 3
4 150 or more 4


Average Attributes
Fremantle Attribute Western Bulldogs
189.0cm Height 186.1cm
88.9kg Weight 87.3kg
25yr 10mth Age 24yr 3mth
89.6 Games 64.5
If there was some more exciting talent amongst that inexperience I would be optimistic with our future.
However when the players such as Djerkurra, Markovic and Howard are amongst those players, Im not too sure where our future lies

[Desipura]

This deserves a separate post -- Markovic should be delisted.

I know he's playing on Pavlich, but he hasn't even won a contest let alone actually contested one. I can't understand Macca's fascination with this bloke, nor some of the posters on this forum. He's VFL standard; absolutely no more.

Everything you have stated is 100 per cent spot on!

[LostDoggy]

Cordy is hopeless. Plays 10 metres behind his opponent and expects our players to kick the ball 70 metres to get to him.

At least Campbell and Minson provide a contest.

I wouldn't describe Cordy as "hopeless" he has a lot to learn about playing at the highest level but he's certainly not "hopeless"

[Eastdog]

Sherman's spot in the team for me is not 100% the way his going. He just does not add to much to our team at all. Our season is shot now and I reckon we should play Skinner for a couple of weeks up forward and see how he goes. With the way our forward line is he would be a good inclusion up there.

[bulldogsman]

Glad to see Howard play well after the stick he copped during the week (including from me). Much better effort today.

[Ghost Dog]

Sherman's spot in the team for me is not 100% the way his going. He just does not add to much to our team at all. Our season is shot now and I reckon we should play Skinner for a couple of weeks up forward and see how he goes. With the way our forward line is he would be a good inclusion up there.

I agree. It's pretty clear what we get from Sherman now. There are good and bad parts to his game. I'd like to see what others can bring into the side. In terms of small forwards, Tutt for Sherman would be ok.

[Sedat]

Is anyone really surprised that Sherman once again failed at this level, likewise Djerkurra? Likewise Vesz if and when he comes back? Ditto Moles, Markovic, Austin, Addison and Skinner? It's probably harsh on a couple of the players I've listed but I'm willing to wager on all of them not being good enough to cut it long-term at this level, so we continue to interchange them and make no genuine progress in the process. I can handle that this season so the coach can give everyone on the list a run but I'd like to see the red pen go through the vast majority of these fringe AFL types so that we can get much more genuine talent into the list.

[Ghost Dog]

Is anyone really surprised that Sherman once again failed at this level, likewise Djerkurra? Likewise Vesz if and when he comes back? Ditto Moles, Markovic, Austin, Addison and Skinner? It's probably harsh on a couple of the players I've listed but I'm willing to wager on all of them not being good enough to cut it long-term at this level, so we continue to interchange them and make no genuine progress in the process. I can handle that this season so the coach can give everyone on the list a run but I'd like to see the red pen go through the vast majority of these fringe AFL types so that we can get much more genuine talent into the list.

I thought DJ was far better than Sherman. He can play.

[AndrewP6]

Bit surprised at the knives aimed at Marko. I didn't see the game today ( I'm away interstate), but he's done some good things for us in Lake's absence, and had time off injured. To read of him describes as hopeless is surprising (I know, I said that already!). People expecting him to be a direct replacement for Moz are going to be disappointed no matter what he does.

[Ghost Dog]

If there was some more exciting talent amongst that inexperience I would be optimistic with our future.
However when the players such as Djerkurra, Markovic and Howard are amongst those players, Im not too sure where our future lies

Come on. Be fair. Howard was pretty committed today.

[Eastdog]

When is Morris expected to return this year or will just return in 2013 as 2012 is over for us.

[azabob]

When is Morris expected to return this year or will just return in 2013 as 2012 is over for us.

Morris will want to play this year, but I hope they hold him back until 2013.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I thought DJ was far better than Sherman. He can play.

DJ was unlucky to be out of the team a few weeks ago. Definitely a better prospect than Sherman who was very lucky to be selected today after another ordinary game last week.

[Eastdog]

Morris will want to play this year, but I hope they hold him back until 2013.

Do you think Dale Morris can still be effective for us after coming back from this injury. Chris Grant when he came back form that knee injury certainly played a role in the team.

[azabob]

Do you think Dale Morris can still be effective for us after coming back from this injury. Chris Grant when he came back form that knee injury certainly played a role in the team.

I hope so, but I'm not optimistic. I think slim pickens has some understanding of injuries etc. all I know is when Nathan Brown broke his leg at richmond he wasn't the same.

[The Pie Man]

Bit surprised at the knives aimed at Marko. I didn't see the game today ( I'm away interstate), but he's done some good things for us in Lake's absence, and had time off injured. To read of him describes as hopeless is surprising (I know, I said that already!). People expecting him to be a direct replacement for Moz are going to be disappointed no matter what he does.

Didn't see the game either, but am wondering why he was assigned Pav. He's had more success on the bigger types (Riewoldt for example) but you'd think Pav would beat Markovic either 9 or 10 times out of 10.

[Eastdog]

Higgins. How did people rate his game. Higgins is still 24 so that is still quite young.

[Dancin' Douggy]

They've proved the Higgins-bose particle exists. Now we just need to find out if the Shaun-Higgins particle exists. Many learned scribes are certain it's there, hopefully soon it will be proven to be a fact.

[FrediKanoute]

I watched the game live and to me in the end the difference between the 2 sides was Pav. We played pretty well, or well enough to push them for 4 quarters. The main difference being that they took their chances (or should I say Pav took his chances) whilst out forwards again offered little. I'm not going to criticize them solely, because I think the ball coming in was average, but Freo's more effective forwards is what won them the game.

Yes, Marco again had his colours lowered, but to be fair he is a stop gap player. Ideally Pav would have been taken by either Morris or Williams. He will stay on our list until we have either drafted or traded for quality talls that can play in the back half.

Cordy - yes he offered little up forward, didn't lead and was out muscled in the goal square. He is a guy still learning his trade.

More concerning for me were the basic skill errors by some experienced guys - Boyd turning the ball over and over; Sherman failing to execute the basic skills; Gilbee twice gifting freo goals at critical times. Until our older guys sort themselves out our younger guys are never going to come up to standard. As for those suggsting we would be bettr of cashing in on Minson......from what I saw of Campbell he is miles away from AFL standard and Roughie remains a better bet!

[AndrewP6]

They've proved the Higgins-bose particle exists. Now we just need to find out if the Shaun-Higgins particle exists. Many learned scribes are certain it's there, hopefully soon it will be proven to be a fact.

However, like Shaun's best games, the Higgs boson is particularly difficult to replicate, and it may be decades before its true value is known. :)

[LostDoggy]

Was at the game yesterday, Griff gets a heap of attention off the ball, behind play. Mayne would have elbowed/shouldered him 4 times before Markovic finally stepped in, it's like a whole team tag. We need to offer the bloke some protection.
Cordy does not lead. Higgins created a whole with a lead a number of times and Ayce just stood there. No one presented at all.
Was impressed with Wallis' game, vision and kicking were good.

[Cyberdoggie]

That was one of the ugliest games of football i've seen us involved in, close behind the StKilda game a few years ago where we just held onto the ball all night.

Fremantle were rubbish, and we were even more so.

Sure increased pressure these days causes more errors and turnovers but if that is what the aesthetics of the game will look like then people will be turning off their tv's because it was ugly.

There was almost no running plays, line breaks, kick pass to mark plays or decent marking contests. It was just handball frenzy to bang it on the boot, to turnover and repeat. Also add in no pressure errors from both sides. So many poor kicks, short kicks side ways small kicks and over possessing the ball in the defensive 50.
There were times we short kicked the ball about 10 times back and forward before eventually kicking it out of defence long. What's the point!
This type of play doesn't teach to players anything other than to have no faith in each other or ever kicking goals from anything other than turnovers or scrap and stoppages in forward 50.

We've got all these big guys in the team who hardly get any opportunities because no one wants to kick to them, and when they do the delivery is so poor they don't stand a chance.
So now they are not only not good enough but they aren't getting any opportunities to improve their game.

To say we were competitive or in the game is factually true to some regard but in terms of actual standard of play and development of players, we are still going downhill because that was the worst standard we've dished up all year. If we played Hawthorn yesterday then i think the margin would of been worse than GWS's.


Also is it just me or does Umpire Mathew Nicholls have it in for us? some of his decisions were baffling. (he's the bald one)

[comrade]

Is anyone really surprised that Sherman once again failed at this level, likewise Djerkurra? Likewise Vesz if and when he comes back? Ditto Moles, Markovic, Austin, Addison and Skinner? It's probably harsh on a couple of the players I've listed but I'm willing to wager on all of them not being good enough to cut it long-term at this level, so we continue to interchange them and make no genuine progress in the process. I can handle that this season so the coach can give everyone on the list a run but I'd like to see the red pen go through the vast majority of these fringe AFL types so that we can get much more genuine talent into the list.

If we put a line through every player on our list that's not likely to cut it, we'd have about 25 to choose from every week. Of those listed I think Vesz has the most potential if he can ever get fit enough and Austin can be a handy 3rd or 4th spare parts defender but I agree that the others are probably cloggers.

It's fair to say we lack some depth that will take a sustained period of good drafting and trading to rectify, along with a massive improvement of the development program at the club.