Forward Line Woes

[LostDoggy]

I was looking at our results this season and we have scored 100+ points in only two matches. Our average score this year is 72.28. So sad to see, considering the ease at which this team once scored.

How do people think we can turn it around and start to put some scoreboard pressure on?

[w3design]

I was looking at our results this season and we have scored 100+ points in only two matches. Our average score this year is 72.28. So sad to see, considering the ease at which this team once scored.

How do people think we can turn it around and start to put some scoreboard pressure on?

Basic enough really. Better and much quicker delivery into the forward line. No more blind bombing, or holding onto the ball so long looking for the perfect pass, that the opposition has time to get their defensive structures all set.

[Cyberdoggie]

We have a poor forward line but more importantly we are completely lost at moving the ball at the moment.

There's absolutely no run and no creativity at all coming from anywhere on the ground, how is a forward supposed to function when the ball only finds it way there off scrappy kicks meant to find a boundary line or a last option bomb in the air.

Apart from Murphy no one wants to take the game on, so of course there is no spaces opening up the ground. Add the poor skill level and you get the scrap we see today.

[bornadog]

This is how the forward line was selected last week. Numbers in brackets are total games played (including Freo game)

FF: Campbell (3), Cordy(11), Dahlhaus (25)

HFF: Smith( 9), Dickson (10), Wallis (17)

This forward line is less experienced than Gold Coast.

Maybe we need to do something a little radical for the rest of the year.

Lake, Muphy to the forward line, plus Panos in. Jones to the backline, plus try Roberts and Markovic out. Or try Austin up forward.

[Remi Moses]

We have a poor forward line but more importantly we are completely lost at moving the ball at the moment.

There's absolutely no run and no creativity at all coming from anywhere on the ground, how is a forward supposed to function when the ball only finds it way there off scrappy kicks meant to find a boundary line or a last option bomb in the air.

Apart from Murphy no one wants to take the game on, so of course there is no spaces opening up the ground. Add the poor skill level and you get the scrap we see today.

The start of the second half summed it up. Free kick in the middle then a sideways look, and by then Freo pushed back.Then the bomb into the 50!

[SlimPickens]

The start of the second half summed it up. Free kick in the middle then a sideways look, and by then Freo pushed back.Then the bomb into the 50!

Spot on..Yes our forward line is young and inexperienced but they have been crucified by a lack of good and quick ball movement into the forward line. The games we looked like kicking a score (eg against Norf) we used smart quick ball movement to the forwards advantage. For some reason this has completely stopped in recent weeks.

[Rocco Jones]

Our leading goal kicker this season will go close to Adrian Campbell's mark of 21 in 1989.

Gia is leading with 18 but out for a bit. Higgins has 15 however he looks like spending a bit more time down back and Dickson has 13. Pretty amazing considering we play most of our games on a small ground under a roof.

[jeemak]

I can't think of a better example to demonstrate the complete and utter patheticness of football analytical commentary than the current innability to score displayed by our team this season.

Apparently, according to people who get paid six figure sums to analyse the game, the fix is recruit Travis Cloke. After this, our scoring woes will vanish!

It warms my heart seeing the six or so posts above mine outlining the underlying issues affecting our ability to score, and it's a good reflection on the reasons why I prefer to read content here moreso than I do elsewhere.

We saw the demise of our quick ball movement and ability to score freely in 2010 (some might even say throughout 2009) when some of our players slowed down and skills dropped off. After our backline was decimated by injury to Lake and Hargrave - each being major contributors to quick ball movement - in 2011 we were given a sneak preview of the issues likely to affect our team in this area until we turn the list over.

Even with Hall dominating in 2010 and 2011 the writing was on the wall.

Sure, we need a couple of competent tall forwards, though without quick and decisive movement of the ball from defense through a midfield supplemented by good ball users we're not going to score well enough to be competitive.

[Ghost Dog]

Basic enough really. Better and much quicker delivery into the forward line. No more blind bombing, or holding onto the ball so long looking for the perfect pass, that the opposition has time to get their defensive structures all set.

We showed a bit more composure V Freo. Better decisions and that comes from exp. Was sad to see us bash ourselves against the forward 50 like a moth against the glass.

[Dry Rot]

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Even with Hall dominating in 2010 and 2011 the writing was on the wall.

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Absolutely agree. He wall papered over the cracks and made us look good.



Sure, we need a couple of competent tall forwards, though without quick and decisive movement of the ball from defense through a midfield supplemented by good ball users we're not going to score well enough to be competitive.

I have been thinking a lot lately about where we are at NB after the Swans fiasco (and avoiding my Swans neighbours ever since).

IMO no one person is responsible for where we are at, rather a series of stuff ups that now are lining up like a series of holes in Swiss cheese like an Air crash Investigations show.

While the process from the backline through the midfield is rooted with delivery to the forward line, we have no forward line now. Moreover, IMO we are good bet for the spoon or bottom 3 in 2013 and 2014.

I can't see us being competitive (say like the Tigers this year) until at least 2015 and playing finals in 2016.

In that scenario, the only forwards we currently have for 2015/2016 are Dahl and possibly Dickson. Jones may clunk a mark but IMO is not a natural forward - I'd like see him at CHB. Ditto Roughead and Cordy.

Dunno what's happened to Panos, Hill and Roberts, but we currently don't have any natural tall forwards in the firsts.

Gia will be gone soon, and Higgins is too slow, lacks defensive pressure and is often injured.

The future of Vez and Hooper looks grim, dunno about Skinner.So we're missing 3 - 4 forwards, including two KP forwards.

And it doesn't get better further back up the field.

By 2015/16, Lake, Morris, Murphy, Hargrave and Gilbee will all be gone. Can't rely on hard luck Williams. Markovic is too slow for AFL, dunno about Austin. Many here have written Howard off.

So we're currently left with maybe Talia and Austin for 2015/16 and like the forward line, missing 4 players.

Funny enough, we may be OK for rucks.

Midfield by then should be well served for inside players by Smith, Wallis and Libba.

Re outside players, Griff may still be around or wandered off as a free agent, Moles, DJ and Sherman will be gone leaving hopefully at least one of Tutt or Pearce to fill one slot. Cooney will be gone soon, sadly. So for the sake of the argument, let's say you have 5 mids on the field and 3 on the bench, we're missing half of them.


So by my count we are an ageing, slow team on a a downward trajectory that in 2015/16 will be missing 3 - 4 forwards (including KP players), 3 - 4 backs (including KP players) and 3 - 4 outside mids.

We must get recruiting right for this year and our next two bottom 3 years, otherwise we will be utterly *!*!*!*!ed.

And even if we do, they will take mostly 3 seasons to begin to produce a good return.
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[Maddog37]

Better stay in bed Dry Rot or the sun might fall from the sky!!!! Always so pessimistic.

The kids will improve in time and we will be ok.

[bornadog]

Better stay in bed Dry Rot or the sun might fall from the sky!!!! Always so pessimistic.

The kids will improve in time and we will be ok.

DR is right in one respect, it will take a few years to get back to top four as the kids of today start to gain experience and reach beyond 50 games.

[Dancin' Douggy]

DR is right in one respect, it will take a few years to get back to top four as the kids of today start to gain experience and reach beyond 50 games.

I think DR is pretty spot on.
Point by point I can't see where he's wrong.

The only thing to counter DR's scenario is good recruiting/trading.
Let's hope that's what happens

[Maddog37]

Go through most other teams and look at the players that are ok now but were either written off or criticized unfairly due to their age.

Stanton was no good, Tarrant from North was hopeless, Nathan Brown from Pies was no good etc etc. the list goes on. Even Mitch Wallis last year was a waste of a first rounder according to some.

Players will take time but with good coaching and natural improvement they do get there. It is not all doom and gloom.

I understand the pessimism but do not understand the desire to revel in it.

[BulldogBelle]

I'm with Maddog here... I remember sitting in the stands during the Rhode years watching loss after loss and thinking 'we are going nowhere with this lot'. Well, eventually that lot came out allright and gave us a handful of exhilarating years of footy. I think we find ourselves in a similar position now and am buoyed by the fact that we will have a large number of kids who will mature together. I bellieve these kids will become very good for us (including Howard, Jones and Roughy) and it will happen ala the end of 2005 when it all seemed to just 'click' into place for us. I expect 2013 to be worse as we lose some experienced players, but I'm confident we'll be playing finals in 2014.

Closer to the point of the thread re our forward line woes. As jeemak pointed out, the 'professors' tell us that Travis Cloke will heal our ailments, but this will only paper the cracks some more, and we'll still be crying out for development in our young talls.

A forward line in 2014 with Cordy, Jones, Dickson, Dahlhaus, Higgins I believe would be very promising and potent. You must also factor in that at that time we will have hard bodied inside mids with good experience that will be performing at a higher standard than our current inside mids. By this I mean Smith, Wallis and Libba in 2014 will be a better line up than Cross,Boyd and Griff are in 2012.
These mids will go a long way to fixing up the delivery into forward line issue that we all groan over when watching us play in 2012.

We are on the right path, unfortunately

[LostDoggy]

Some really good theories and possible solutions guys. I too remember during the Rohde years thinking we would be ordinary for some time but football can turn quickly and players develop at different rates. I'm going with some glass half full thinking and continuing faith in Maccas plan to build something good.

At the moment we just don't seem to have the players and/or the will to break lines in order to create opportunities. At least we now have a team that can win (consistently) the contested aspects of the game.

[bornadog]

Some really good theories and possible solutions guys. I too remember during the Rohde years thinking we would be ordinary for some time but football can turn quickly and players develop at different rates. I'm going with some glass half full thinking and continuing faith in Maccas plan to build something good.

At the moment we just don't seem to have the players and/or the will to break lines in order to create opportunities. At least we now have a team that can win (consistently) the contested aspects of the game.

I think a big difference from the Rhode years was the recruits from 1999, they really started to show something and you could tell we had some very good kids, but had to wait for their development. I guess the exciting thing will be watching Libba, Wallis, Dahlhaus, Jones, Smith, Roughead and Cordy. Hopefully we haven't over rated them because they play for us.

[LostDoggy]

At one stage Gilbee kicked the ball long off half back on the run. He looked up, he knew where he wanted to go and he opened up the forward line…..and I momentarily thought - wow - there's exactly what other clubs have that we don't. Mids and backs who can hit a target from 60 metres by running and then angling the ball to the right position for a forward to run onto it or mark it. All the good sides have this type of player. We do not. Gilbee at times looked slow and made mistakes but he showed to me what we must recruit at the end of the season.

It seems to me that we just need a couple of very skilful ball users to glue this team together. The lack of this type of player is what makes it so difficult for us to score or to set up free flowing play . The speed (or lack of) at which ball enters the forward line and the lack of distance or precision so many of our disposals have….makes for a crowded forward line that is easy pickings for opposition defenders.

Footballers who can run and kick long and accurately, footballers who learn where to position themselves to make the next possession the most effective, footballers who combine this with endurance and courage. That's what we need from the draft.

And then we might find our forwards can play the game sooner than we think.

[stefoid]

All the forwards really want is the chance to compete one out with their opponent and a bit of space to lead into. Even Wayne Carey had Pagans paddock to work in.

Thats why moving the ball quickly and accurately on the rebound is how most teams end up with a shot on goal these days.

Whereas by the time we get our rebound ball down there, it just gets re-rebounded.

All effort is on us being defensive, defending the ground, defend, defend, defend. Its not winning us games.

And Im starting to think at this stage of a lost year, thats kind of by design.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

At one stage Gilbee kicked the ball long off half back on the run. He looked up, he knew where he wanted to go and he opened up the forward line…..and I momentarily thought - wow - there's exactly what other clubs have that we don't. Mids and backs who can hit a target from 60 metres by running and then angling the ball to the right position for a forward to run onto it or mark it. All the good sides have this type of player. We do not. Gilbee at times looked slow and made mistakes but he showed to me what we must recruit at the end of the season.

It seems to me that we just need a couple of very skilful ball users to glue this team together. The lack of this type of player is what makes it so difficult for us to score or to set up free flowing play . The speed (or lack of) at which ball enters the forward line and the lack of distance or precision so many of our disposals have….makes for a crowded forward line that is easy pickings for opposition defenders.

Footballers who can run and kick long and accurately, footballers who learn where to position themselves to make the next possession the most effective, footballers who combine this with endurance and courage. That's what we need from the draft.

And then we might find our forwards can play the game sooner than we think.

It's a funny thing I watched all the game and was thinking the same. We can all see that our guys Will be OK. The poi is getting it o them. I said o the wife after that Gilbee kick if he got it 12 times on the run we would get 9 goals if he delivered into the 50 from them.

At this point of time I see only three guys that as a forward you would be licking your chops to lead with they have the ball (Muphy, Griff & Gilbee). The problem is ones injuried, ones tagged each week and the others played one game.

Go get a couple more of these and we will come good

[Ghost Dog]

There have been some knocks on BMac's coaching and your truly has has a tilt as well. Lots of people were scratching their heads when Gillbee was selected. He had a few clangers but generally I thought he played well. full credit to the MC

[Mantis]

Go get a couple more of these and we will come good

We drafted Tutt & Howard as replacements for the likes of Gilbee & Eagleton... lets hope they come good.

[Ghost Dog]

Some really good theories and possible solutions guys. I too remember during the Rohde years thinking we would be ordinary for some time but football can turn quickly and players develop at different rates. I'm going with some glass half full thinking and continuing faith in Maccas plan to build something good.

At the moment we just don't seem to have the players and/or the will to break lines in order to create opportunities. At least we now have a team that can win (consistently) the contested aspects of the game.

I understand the need for development. Persisting with kids even when they are not effective so they learn. Fine. But surely we can throw Lake up forward once in a while to mix it up a bit and try and Jag a few games?

If we can risk it, like to see him down back, and if we are dominating like in Freo with 62% of time in our F fifty, like to see him jog down there and try to make a difference, then sneak back.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

We drafted Tutt & Howard as replacements for the likes of Gilbee & Eagleton... lets hope they come good.

Early days but I hope they come good, they are both OK but just need time to get up with the pace of the game. Also I think Wood was just starting to rebound well prior to his latest injury, I think also the quick departure of Harbrow and Ward have been a large hole that we didn't see coming. Those two would be welcome additions into our team at the moment and in our regular 22 each week.

[Dry Rot]

I think DR is pretty spot on.
Point by point I can't see where he's wrong.

The only thing to counter DR's scenario is good recruiting/trading.
Let's hope that's what happens

Thanks. I stand by reckoning we need about 12 players and especially tall chaps who are real forwards.

[MrMahatma]

On the weekend, a couple of times we rebounded well, got to the centre circle and looked up to find all fwds out on the flanks and not one in the centre corridoor.

Our ball movement is definitely a problem, but our fwds don't run to the right spots either. Maybe it's a bit chicken/egg...!

[Ghost Dog]

Wonder if that is the last our backline has seen of Tommy Williams?

[LostDoggy]

Wonder if that is the last our backline has seen of Tommy Williams?

One swallow doesn't make a summer.
He lead well and marked a few against an undermanned backline.
One goal and we saw not much else in terms of forward line nous.
Long way to go.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I was looking at our results this season and we have scored 100+ points in only two matches. Our average score this year is 72.28. So sad to see, considering the ease at which this team once scored.

How do people think we can turn it around and start to put some scoreboard pressure on?

We simply lack two key forwards and apart from Dahlhaus and Dickson quality players at ground level. Dickson and Dahlhaus are first and second year players which means a very inexperienced forward line. It is one of the reasons I have advocated moving Murphy into our attack to provide some class and direction. The loss of Cooney hasn't helped whilst Griffen has been kept in check in recent weeks through constant tagging. Until we develop a quality FF and CHF you can expect that we will continue to struggle.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

One swallow doesn't make a summer.
He lead well and marked a few against an undermanned backline.
One goal and we saw not much else in terms of forward line nous.
Long way to go.

Whilst I agree, he did show more in one game than Jones and Cordy have in this entire season.

He would need a proper pre-season/training program before it could be judged, but I think it's a move worth pursuing.