Game Day 2012 - R16 Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn

[BulldogBelle]

This is the discussion thread for our Sunday afternoon game against Hawthorn at ES.

My predictions are:

The Hawks by 38 points
BOG : Matthew Boyd
Shaun Higgins to kick the first goal

[bornadog]

Hawks by 55:o

First Goal: who is playing forward this week:confused: - ok, Dahl

BOG: Boydy

[AndrewP6]

Dawks by 51
First goal for us Dahl
BOG for us Libba

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Hawks by 48 points

1st Bulldog Goal Dickson

BOG for Dogs Crossy for his Mate Boyd

[Hotdog60]

Hawks by 48 points

1st Bulldog Goal Dickson

BOG for Dogs Crossy for his ate Boyd

I know it's a Dog eat Dog world, but wow.;)

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I know it's a Dog eat Dog world, but wow.;)

Fixed now! You got me

[Greystache]

Hawthorn by 45
BOG- Dahlhaus
First goal- Dickson

[SlimPickens]

Hawks 49 pts
Goal Dickson
BOG Wallis

[Doggy]

Dogs by 1 point

First goal. Cordy

BOG. Boyd

[Eastdog]

Dogs by 1 point
First Goal: Will Minson
BOG: Matthew Boyd

[Remi Moses]

Hawks by 40
First Goal Cordy
BOG Lake

[G-Mo77]

First Melbourne game I'm going to miss this year. :(

Hawks by 52 points

For Us
First Goal Dickson
BOG Boyd

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hawthorn by 71
BOG - Libba
First goal - Dahlhaus

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Hawks 39 points
Goal: Dickson
BOG: Boyd

[Mantis]

No late changes.

Tutt the sub..... again. :confused:

[LongWait]

No late changes.

Tutt the sub..... again. :confused:

Tutt can't run out a full game of AFL footy just yet.

[westdog54]

Excellent start. Williams busy on the lead. Boyd needs to switch on, bad moments at either end of the ground within a couple of minutes.

[westdog54]

Lewis is going to cream Howard if that match up doesn't change

[The Pie Man]

Gee early signs for Tom playing forward are really promising. While big, he's mobile.

What's with Tutt as the sub again.

Griffen very good so far.

[The Pie Man]

Lewis is going to cream Howard if that match up doesn't change

Howard has had a mare of a quarter

[Mantis]

Gee we have out fair share of sub-standard players.

[westdog54]

Whitecross found space far too easily there.

[The Pie Man]

Gee we have out fair share of sub-standard players.

Neither DJ or Howard had a disposal that quarter

[westdog54]

Neither DJ or Howard had a disposal that quarter

Didn't Howard have a handpass smothered by Rioli?:rolleyes:

[Mantis]

Neither DJ or Howard had a disposal that quarter

Howard 2, DJ one... Markovic poor too.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Howard has had a mare of a quarter

An All-Sorts array of shockers from Howard that quarter, poor defensive positioning, poor disposal, and poor effort in a contested ground ball in the middle. all 3 I think led to Hawks scores.
Needs to lift.

[F'scary]

Howard: lucky we didn't waste a high draft pick on him

[The Pie Man]

Didn't Howard have a handpass smothered by Rioli?:rolleyes:

Yep sorry my error - that bit of play summed up his effort though. No intensity.

Agreed on Markovic as well Mantis. So far they (DJ, Howard & Markovic) are getting exposed.

Other signs at least in the first 20 mins were OK

[G-Mo77]

Didn't Howard have a handpass smothered by Rioli?:rolleyes:

He's had a quarter to forget.

Higgins and Dickson lively up forward. Williams looking pretty good as well.

Griffen on track for a good game after an ordinary month of footy.

[westdog54]

Another good start to a quarter.

Loving Williams leading up the ground.

[LostDoggy]

Williams is promising but I would put hawks defence in the bottom 4 in the league especially with personel down today

[G-Mo77]

Getting raped by the yellow aresholes today.

[ledge]

I have been very patient this year but I am starting to think Maccas only thought is get it, doesnt seem to be any form of anything else

[Mantis]

How is it a holding the ball free to Hawthorn when a Hawthorn player has the ball?

[G-Mo77]

How is it a holding the ball free to Hawthorn when a Hawthorn player has the ball?

How haven't we got a HTB decision go our way. We've tackled well and gotten no reward from these magots.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

How is it a holding the ball free to Hawthorn when a Hawthorn player has the ball?

We are getting shafted by the umpires.
5 minutes later a Hawk player pulls a ball back into himself after diving on the ball and the ump allows a ball up.

[Mantis]

Howard has the intensity of a door mat.... He isn't going to last if it doesn't improve.

[The Pie Man]

Howard has the intensity of a door mat.... He isn't going to last if it doesn't improve.

Jordan Lewis embarrassed Christian Howard then simply by wanting it a whole lot more. Pathetic

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Howard has the intensity of a door mat.... He isn't going to last if it doesn't improve.
He is a complete liability out there right now, one of the worst individual performances I have seen from one of our guys this year.
I am really struggling to see what it is right now that is earning him a game. Doesn't go hard at the contest, doesn't use his supposed kicking skills to any sort of advantages, has very slow reaction skills, and low intensity.

[LostDoggy]

How opposition goals must it take for the coach to see Howard isn't a defender.

We arent getting the 50/50 frees either.

[westdog54]

Smith is working very very hard

[westdog54]

Another blunder by Howard but lake prevents a near certain goal.

[Rance Fan]

Howard simply ain up to it. Has cost us a few.

Williams up forward is showing Cordy how it should be done!

[chef]

Gee Howard and Markovic are lucky to be playing AFL.

[Bulldog4life]

We are getting shafted by the umpires.
5 minutes later a Hawk player pulls a ball back into himself after diving on the ball and the ump allows a ball up.

Agree. They are consistently in favour of Hawthorn.

[comrade]

It's the same thing every week; over handling, no structure up forward, static movement, disposal errors. It's not the kids that are letting us down either, it's guys that have been in the system long enough that they should be able to work through contested scenarios without panicking.

The positive is that we're still within sight of the Hawks.

The Rioli circlejerk in the commentary box is hilarious. At one point they were gushing over his performance and his stats popped up to show he had only had 4 touches up to middle of the 2nd qtr. Huge effort.

[LostDoggy]

Loving Tommy up the ground. Seems to be relishing not having pressure to stop an opponent

[hujsh]

Telling shots when Williams was outisde 50, clearly didn't want to take the set shot, and not a single forward moved for him

[G-Mo77]

It's not that bad overall. Higgins, Dickson and Williams really good up forward. Lake has been great down back. That quarter it was down there a lot. Murphy has been good, a little sloppy though. They're tackling well, which I'm happy with.

Cordy no from me as a FF back up ruck or VFL. Howard very ordinary today as mentioned. Umpires are a disgrace. I'm in trouble with the Mrs now for yelling so much.

[hujsh]

The Rioli circlejerk in the commentary box is hilarious. At one point they were gushing over his performance and his stats popped up to show he had only had 4 touches up to middle of the 2nd qtr. Huge effort.

I think Bruce is trying to sound gay for Rioli now. "Does he tun you on as much as he turns us on?" It must be deliberate at this point

[comrade]

I think Bruce is trying to sound gay for Rioli now. "Does he tun you on as much as he turns us on?" It must be deliberate at this point

Kinda weird, if true*


*not that there's anything wrong with that

[LostDoggy]

I could have smashed the TV when Roughead walked across the boundary line and its ok after Lakes deliberate.

[G-Mo77]

I could have smashed the TV when Roughead walked across the boundary line and its ok after Lakes deliberate.

It's at that point I got in trouble. :)

[LostDoggy]

Cordy no from me as a FF back up ruck or VFL.
Cordy needs another 5kgs. Not sure how he is picked in front Jones.

[comrade]

Smith is working very very hard

I like how he grabs the ball, barges into an opponent, rolls his shoulders and comes away with it.

Good replacement for Crossy when he hangs them up.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

It's not that bad overall. Higgins, Dickson and Williams really good up forward. Lake has been great down back. That quarter it was down there a lot. Murphy has been good, a little sloppy though. They're tackling well, which I'm happy with..

I for one am pretty happy with the game so far, we have just had a couple of turnovers and a few missed shots otherwise we would be very close to the hawks.

Clearly Tut should come on for Howard as he has just fumbled and panicked around the ball

[GVGjr]

Williams up forward has been a positive.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I like how he grabs the ball, barges into an opponent, rolls his shoulders and comes away with it.

Good replacement for Crossy when he hangs them up.

I would hope that maybe Picken can have a crack at Crossys spot . if we can find another tagged that is.

[GVGjr]

I could have smashed the TV when Roughead walked across the boundary line and its ok after Lakes deliberate.

Couldn't get to the game?

[G-Mo77]

Cordy needs another 5kgs. Not sure how he is picked in front Jones.

I'd leave him in the VFL for the rest of the year. He offers nothing, nothing at all at FF. Not only is pushed off the ball to easily he doesn't make a decent contest either some thing Jones does well. 5kgs would help, lock him up like Grant and work for next year.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Wow. we're making Schoenmakers look like a stud forward.

[westdog54]

Sherman and Howard will be the death of me. Oh so frustrating to watch.

[Mantis]

Looks like it's about to get messy... need to hold firm.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Sherman ran down by the ruck an what on Earth!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

It's not got a good odour to it this half.
Hawks 9 of the last 11 goals.

[G-Mo77]

Sherman and Howard will be the death of me. Oh so frustrating to watch.

The Hale tackle on Sherman is classic Justin. Apparently he has pace and could have used it then but was lazy and got embarrassed by a slow ruckman.

[LostDoggy]

Couldn't get to the game?

No. Me and looks like a few others.
I don't enjoy going to see us thrashed with very few positives coming from it.

[Mantis]

We are such a boring team to watch.... More backwards movements than a rugby league team.

[GVGjr]

No. Me and looks like a few others.
I don't enjoy going to see us thrashed with very few positives coming from it.

You would obviously prefer to watch from home and see us thrashed. At least going to the footy might save your TV :)

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Wow that's another shocking holding the ball decision, the umpire blew the whislte after the ball came out to Libba .
As bad as we are, - and we know we are terrible - the umpires have been putrid today.

[LostDoggy]

Ok, I've tried to remain positive and patient but we are bloody unwatchable. We were just outside our attacking 50 and ended up back in their's. When we do take a mark , we stop and wait for the opposition to set up in Defence. Memo to coaching staff, we the members will be patient if we can see our team trying to take the game on. This chipping around and then turning the ball over is disgusting to watch.

[The Pie Man]

As bad as Howard's been, Cordy has had zero impact....again. He can't get his hands to the ball in even the slightest of contest. Awful

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We are going backwards at a rate of knots, in many areas of the game.
Either the message from the coach is not getting through or the message is not much good.
Irrespective of win-losses we are the worst team to watch in the competition.

[G-Mo77]

As bad as Howard's been, Cordy has had zero impact....again. He can't get his hands to the ball in even the slightest of contest. Awful

Tall player so gets a free ride. He shouldn't be in the team.

[GVGjr]

As bad as Howard's been, Cordy has had zero impact....again. He can't get his hands to the ball in even the slightest of contest. Awful

Cordy just isn't ready. He won't fight hard enough to get in front

[Rance Fan]

Im not sure why we are going with Gilbee. Just dont see the point?

[FrediKanoute]

Got out of bed tuned in, respectable 10 point game at half time. Made a coffee, read the morning paper, caught up on the boxing result agve the girls breaky - 10 goal game wtf!

[Mantis]

Cordy just isn't ready. He won't fight hard enough to get in front

I know Jones has had a poor year, but he simply has to play in front of Cordy.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Cordy just isn't ready. He won't fight hard enough to get in front

And I'm just not sure how much it's actually benefitting his learning. He really needs to be given a clear learning path and then given time in Willy to apply it.
I'm just not sure with key position players whether merely pumping games into them is the best way to go, if they're not even looking likely of being able to test and develop their skills.

[LostDoggy]

You would obviously prefer to watch from home and see us thrashed. At least going to the footy might save your TV :)

Guess I'm a saddist. Its hard to watch anywhere but at least I can turn it off.
I

[GVGjr]

I know Jones has had a poor year, but he simply has to play in front of Cordy.

Agreed. There is vastly more upside in Jones being persevered with.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Wow, Howard, so interesting in his own man, that he just let Burgoyne run freely past him.
If this path of 'self preservation' approach spreads to other players, this is going to be even more demoralising to watch this quarter.

[LostDoggy]

Unwatchable.

This style of footy may have been alright 5 years ago Macca, but look at our results. Cordy, Sherman, Howard, Markovic are simply not AFL players.

Griffen has completely forgot how to dispose of the ball with effectiveness.

We are showing nothing.

[Rance Fan]

35pts we have scored so far!! what a joke

[westdog54]

Even though Smith's disposal isn't great his decision making is very good.

[LostDoggy]

Worst team in the AFL by a stretch at the moment, just seem confused, devoid of confidence and completely out of their depth. Don't need to worry about tanking because we will not win another game.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Unwatchable.

This style of footy may have been alright 5 years ago Macca, but look at our results. Cordy, Sherman, Howard, Markovic are simply not AFL players.

Griffen has completely forgot how to dispose of the ball with effectiveness.

We are showing nothing.

Griff's disposal has been fine, he just has been closed down since quarter time - he's only had it 9 times since Qtr time..
And this style of footy has NEVER been successful, Apart from everyone trying to win the football, I actually don't know what style or plan we are trying to employ. It reminds me of lunch time footy at school, where everyone is just trying to win a kick and don't care exactly where it goes, or where there man is.

[Mantis]

35pts we have scored so far!! what a joke

We haven't scored a goal since the 11min of the 2nd qtr... Horrible stuff.

[Rance Fan]

DJ has tried hard. Passable in my eyes. One of the few ...

[Eastdog]

35pts we have scored so far!! what a joke

It is just not good enough and is a reflection of how we take our opportunities in the forward time which is below average.

[Rance Fan]

Why not Lake and Murphy forward??
We couldnt be any worse!!
Why not change it up..Macca!!?

[Eastdog]

Panos and Skinner I reckon should get a chance.

[Rance Fan]

Hooray! A GOAL!!!!

[Eastdog]

Finally. Cordy gets our first goal in the 2nd half.

[F'scary]

Why not Lake and Murphy forward??
We couldnt be any worse!!
Why not change it up..Macca!!?

Watch out! I got my head bitten off here pre-season when I suggested Lake & Murphy to the forward line. The way the forward line has gone this year, I reckon I was on the money.:p

Liked the look of Williams up forward.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Watch out! I got my head bitten off here pre-season when I suggested Lake & Murphy to the forward line. The way the forward line has gone this year, I reckon I was on the money.:p

Liked the look of Williams up forward.

Your alternative robs Peter to pay Paul.
It's not a good idea.

[LostDoggy]

Watch out! I got my head bitten off here pre-season when I suggested Lake & Murphy to the forward line. The way the forward line has gone this year, I reckon I was on the money.:p

Liked the look of Williams up forward.

We've had about 30 inside 50s. We could have Templeton with Beasley in prime there and it won't matter.

[F'scary]

Your alternative robs Peter to pay Paul.
It's not a good idea.

Well, Williams as a forward perhaps should be pursued. Something's got to give with that forward line, it's awful.

[Eastdog]

How many disposals has Boyd had and what has been his efficiency.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

one goal in a half of footy, lamentable ball movement, yet again.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well, Williams as a forward perhaps should be pursued. Something's got to give with that forward line, it's awful.

Which is exactly where he played today and he looked okay.

[F'scary]

We've had about 30 inside 50s. We could have Templeton with Beasley in prime there and it won't matter.

Point taken but I don't know about that. KT alone would have got us 10 goals closer today.

[F'scary]

Which is exactly where he played today and he looked okay.

That's why I said it.

[Eastdog]

Awful performance in the 2nd half. 1st half the attitude I thought was very good from our team. We right now are just not good enough. DJ was ok in the 2nd half if there are any positives.

[F'scary]

logging off. Got to feed kids

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That's why I said it.

right after you suggested moving 1/3 of our backline also into our forward line.

[Doggy]

6 goals total.

Is that the 3rd time this year we have kicked 6 for the whole game

[Eastdog]

6 goals total.

Is that the 3rd time this year we have kicked 6 for the whole game

Not sure exactly but I'm interested in what our average score is this year.

[LostDoggy]

Point taken but I don't know about that. KT alone would have got us 10 goals closer today.

It was something like 70 to 30 inside 50s maybe one or two goals difference not 10.

[LostDoggy]

Howard was awful and i still havent seen him give anything to give any reason as to why we would have chosen him in the first round of any draft. He is soft, has very little awareness of the game around him and his decision making is not up to the mark at all. I am also yet to see any elite kicking.

I know singleing out anyone after a 2nd half like that is not right, but Howard has been really annoying me for quite some time and i thought today that he started off badly (when in general the team was playing well) and he only got worse from there on.

[Hotdog60]

Howard was awful and i still havent seen him give anything to give any reason as to why we would have chosen him in the first round of any draft. He is soft, has very little awareness of the game around him and his decision making is not up to the mark at all. I am also yet to see any elite kicking.

I know singleing out anyone after a 2nd half like that is not right, but Howard has been really annoying me for quite some time and i thought today that he started off badly (when in general the team was playing well) and he only got worse from there on.

He's supposed to replace Gilbee. He isn't even close.

[Sedat]

Went to the game today - we are the least skilled, slowest, ugliest team to watch right now. I'm sure BMac is working towards some grand plan but buggered if I know what it is. We are so careful and timid when in possession because the opposition structure up to win the ball off us at the next contest. We can't hit a target to save ourselves, and our ball movement is so predictable to even half decent teams. Our last 6 weeks of footy has been as putrid as anything from the dim dark Royce Hart days, forget about Peter Rhode.

Put the red pen through Howard. He lacks any semblance of one on one smarts, which defenders cannot do without. He lacks leg speed so cannot get separation to use his left peg, which means a midfield gig won't suit him either. Maybe we can package him to Port as part of the Boak trade if they are interested.

We have a world of problems both on and off the ground.

[LostDoggy]

He's supposed to replace Gilbee. He isn't even close.

What do you mean? I think he can one day match Gilbee's effort from today.

[Eastdog]

So is there any upside to Howard or will he be a dud. What year is this for him again?

[Hotdog60]

What do you mean? I think he can one day match Gilbee's effort from today.

True he might, but will he ever match him from 4 or 5 seasons back.

[Maddog37]

Seems strange that we get absolutely pumped and it was all Howard's fault. Everyone else must have played well.......How many games has he played again?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Seems strange that we get absolutely pumped and it was all Howard's fault. Everyone else must have played well.......How many games has he played again?

I don't think one person has laid the blame at Howard's feet. Rather many have pointed out the blinding obvious, that both his effort and skill today aren't even close to being up to scratch in the most basic aspects of the game.
I think most can accept mistakes -when a bloke is trying, that is part of the learning experience. Not exhibiting the required effort to even apply yourself to the task is another thing entirely.

[The Pie Man]

I don't think one person has laid the blame at Howard's feet. Rather many have pointed out the blinding obvious, that both his effort and skill today aren't even close to being up to scratch in the most basic aspects of the game.
I think most can accept mistakes -when a bloke is trying, that is part of the learning experience. Not exhibiting the required effort to even apply yourself to the task is another thing entirely.

This - today's result wasn't his fault (of course) but now is the opportunity to see who we can work with moving forward. It's not just today, but today felt like the final nail in Howard's AFL career. Just not competitive enough

[Eastdog]

This - today's result wasn't his fault (of course) but now is the opportunity to see who we can work with moving forward. It's not just today, but today felt like the final nail in Howard's AFL career. Just not competitive enough

Agree. Our season is long gone so that is what we should do.

[SonofScray]

We were promised fight, contested footy and a ruthless pursuit of physical contests. We are getting none of it.

[bornadog]

Did anyone see Rioli punch Picken in the head and Mitchell punch Wallis in the head. Surely both must go for that.

[Ghost Dog]

Went to the game today - we are the least skilled, slowest, ugliest team to watch right now. I'm sure BMac is working towards some grand plan but buggered if I know what it is. We are so careful and timid when in possession because the opposition structure up to win the ball off us at the next contest. We can't hit a target to save ourselves, and our ball movement is so predictable to even half decent teams. Our last 6 weeks of footy has been as putrid as anything from the dim dark Royce Hart days, forget about Peter Rhode.

Put the red pen through Howard. He lacks any semblance of one on one smarts, which defenders cannot do without. He lacks leg speed so cannot get separation to use his left peg, which means a midfield gig won't suit him either. Maybe we can package him to Port as part of the Boak trade if they are interested.

We have a world of problems both on and off the ground.

I was driving so could not see the game. Were we as bad as Port?? Woe Woe

[azabob]

I was driving so could not see the game. Were we as bad as Port?? Woe Woe

Bad as port?

[AndrewP6]

Depressing end to the weekend (and my holidays). Another woeful capitulation after a short period of good footy.

[Ghost Dog]

Bad as port?

I mean.... are we really the worst team to watch at the moment?? When people like Sedat start saying that stuff, makes me feel ill.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Went to the game today - we are the least skilled, slowest, ugliest team to watch right now. I'm sure BMac is working towards some grand plan but buggered if I know what it is. We are so careful and timid when in possession because the opposition structure up to win the ball off us at the next contest. We can't hit a target to save ourselves, and our ball movement is so predictable to even half decent teams. Our last 6 weeks of footy has been as putrid as anything from the dim dark Royce Hart days, forget about Peter Rhode.

Put the red pen through Howard. He lacks any semblance of one on one smarts, which defenders cannot do without. He lacks leg speed so cannot get separation to use his left peg, which means a midfield gig won't suit him either. Maybe we can package him to Port as part of the Boak trade if they are interested.

We have a world of problems both on and off the ground.

Sums it up well.

Moving Higgins to the backline was a stroke of genius :rolleyes:

[AndrewP6]

I mean.... are we really the worst team to watch at the moment?? When people like Sedat start saying that stuff, makes me feel ill.

Don't really watch Port, but we are bloody awful to watch, I'd have us close to worst.

[Maddog37]

Anyone else starting to question our fitness? We cannot sustain effort and get knocked off the ball very easily.

I hope it is fitness because otherwise it is lack of effort.

[Ghost Dog]

Don't really watch Port, but we are bloody awful to watch, I'd have us close to worst.

Scarey, as that was our strongest team for a while..... We had all our cards on the table.

[AndrewP6]

Scarey, as that was our strongest team for a while..... We had all our cards on the table.
As an example, DJ is in our best 22. Now that's scary!

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Did anyone see Rioli punch Picken in the head and Mitchell punch Wallis in the head. Surely both must go for that.

Yes saw both but I feel they will not even be sighted as our players did nothing about it.

Guttered after another non-effort fom our boys today. Can't wait o see he media crap come out from the lug this week. Why is our coaching staff not under a heap of pressure fom the media?

When the Demons dished up better performances than this earlier on the year we all had the coach dead.


No more mixed messages from Brendon this week, please just come out and tell us that the boys you put on the park did or did not do as you instructed them to do. Send anyone with an injury off o get it sortedb(Cooney included) play the older guys that ou are delisting at years end next week and call it their fairwell game, then just play the kids, at least this way we as supporters we hang on for the ride and live in hope for next year.

[Eastdog]

We just look terrible at the moment and it's so bad watching it. We better make sure we draft well in November.

[Sedat]

Seems strange that we get absolutely pumped and it was all Howard's fault. Everyone else must have played well.......How many games has he played again?Howard is just one of a long list of problems we currently have, but his abject performance can't be ignored. He was dreadfully disappointing and has been a number of times this season.

[Eastdog]

Howard is just one of a long list of problems we currently have, but his abject performance can't be ignored. He was dreadfully disappointing and has been a number of times this season.

It is evidence that 1st round picks don't always turn out to be good. Carlton is evidence that 1st round picks don't work out.

[SonofScray]

Did anyone see Rioli punch Picken in the head and Mitchell punch Wallis in the head. Surely both must go for that.

Yep. Atrocious officiating from the umpires with regards to these incidents, clear as day intentional strikes and did not make a call. No doubt because of Picken's reputation as a tagger in particular. Apparently you are fair game in their eyes.

They certainly tread a thin line the Hawks, it was as close to dirty footy as I've seen since Essendon in the late 90s, early parts of the naughties. It annoys me immensely because we just do not stand up to it. Or get on the front foot and dish it out.

Would love it if we had players who clearly were prepared to belt blokes, niggle, sledge, hurt etc where it is required. Libba-esque type footy. Whatever it takes, rather than worrying about reputations. It is most likely frowned upon by our Club though, at the AFL's behest. We wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings or damage the brand.

[Maddog37]

He has plenty of mates though. He seems an easy target.

I do not disagree about his poor form but he has been on a hiding to nothing with his ability being hampered by hip issues and lack of experience. His drafting as our first pick has also skewed our expectations I feel.

It just seems so soon to be talking of cutting him from the list etc.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

We just look terrible at the moment and it's so bad watching it. We better make sure we draft well in November.

I can't say that at this point of time I have any confidence in the Club drafting anyone any good. I see no direction or game plan so how do they know what players they are wanting.

Seriously BMac you have not made an example of anyone on our list nor shared with us the direction forward, crack in has lost its meaning and education good young men just won't wash.

It's football and I would rather you get the guys on the field to man up and put their head over the ball and support each other.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Yep. Atrocious officiating from the umpires with regards to these incidents, clear as day intentional strikes and did not make a call. No doubt because of Picken's reputation as a tagger in particular. Apparently you are fair game in their eyes.

They certainly tread a thin line the Hawks, it was as close to dirty footy as I've seen since Essendon in the late 90s, early parts of the naughties. It annoys me immensely because we just do not stand up to it. Or get on the front foot and dish it out.

Would love it if we had players who clearly were prepared to belt blokes, niggle, sledge, hurt etc where it is required. Libba-esque type footy. Whatever it takes, rather than worrying about reputations. It is most likely frowned upon by our Club though, at the AFL's behest. We wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings or damage the brand.

Did you miss Minson elbow Roughy to the face just before 1/2 time. I'm sure he has a go but just has no mates in the side that will push the boundary!

[Eastdog]

I can't say that at this point of time I have any confidence in the Club drafting anyone any good. I see no direction or game plan so how do they know what players they are wanting.

Seriously BMac you have not made an example of anyone on our list nor shared with us the direction forward, crack in has lost its meaning and education good young men just won't wash.

It's football and I would rather you get the guys on the field to man up and put their head over the ball and support each other.

I think we need to go for KPP. That's easier said than done as the are very hard to find compared to midfielders.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I like how he grabs the ball, barges into an opponent, rolls his shoulders and comes away with it.

Good replacement for Crossy when he hangs them up.

If only he could kick as well as Cross:rolleyes:

[Mantis]

That last 6 weeks have may wondering if we are on the right track.... The light is off at the end of the tunnel... Let's hope we can find the switch at some point in time.

We are playing a horrible brand of footy, from what I'm hearing is turning away our fans in droves.... Me included.

[always right]

If only he could kick as well as Cross:rolleyes:

Cross will never be an elite kick but credit where credit is due......he has been far more positive with his disposal this year and rarely misses a target. He's not our problem.

[bulldogsman]

It's football and I would rather you get the guys on the field to man up and put their head over the ball and support each other.

Isn't that what he's trying to do? Sure he's been heavy on the whole cracking in, but he's also mentioned the exact same thing that you have written down on numerous occasions. Just check out his post match pressers.

Our defensive game looks worse then it actually is because our foot skills are so poor. Makes it pretty hard to defend if we keep turning the ball over so easily. Today was worse because we just did not work hard enough.

I'm not happy with the way the side is going, but I don't blame McCartney for it (well not for most of it). He's inherited a very poor list.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Howard was awful and i still havent seen him give anything to give any reason as to why we would have chosen him in the first round of any draft. He is soft, has very little awareness of the game around him and his decision making is not up to the mark at all. I am also yet to see any elite kicking.

I know singleing out anyone after a 2nd half like that is not right, but Howard has been really annoying me for quite some time and i thought today that he started off badly (when in general the team was playing well) and he only got worse from there on.

You're aware, of course, that Sam Reid -
Yes, THAT Sam Reid, you know, the Son of Bruce Reid,

That tall marking forward who kicked 6 goals for Sydney last week,

The one we "would have taken as a father son, if only his dad had played 14 more games etc.........."

That one.

Was available to be picked in the draft when we picked Howard?
And he was still there when we picked Tutt.

Can you believe that? CAN YOU F%#*@%ING BELIEVE THAT?

Any one up for some 'Mob with pitchforks and flaming torches' type action?

Was it Clayton or Fantasia? Can someone enlighten me?
:mad::mad::mad:

[Desipura]

I have not yet seen the game, not too sure I will. I have a bit of crap happening at the moment, I used to get withdrawal symptoms when I could not go to a game (let alone not watch it live on tv).
Sadly it is no longer the case. That said, I will be going next week.

[always right]

You're aware, of course, that Sam Reid -
Yes, THAT Sam Reid, you know, the Son of Bruce Reid,

That tall marking forward who kicked 6 goals for Sydney last week,

The one we "would have taken as a father son, if only his dad had played 14 more games etc.........."

That one.

Was available to be picked in the draft when we picked Howard?
And he was still there when we picked Tutt.

Can you believe that? CAN YOU F%#*@%ING BELIEVE THAT?

Any one up for some 'Mob with pitchforks and flaming torches' type action?

Was it Clayton or Fantasia? Can someone enlighten me?
:mad::mad::mad:

It's a disgrace. Why didn't our club have the nouse to pick him early....like the other clubs did? Oh wait.......

[bulldogsman]

Was it Clayton or Fantasia? Can someone enlighten me?
:mad::mad::mad:

Neither, Dalrymple.
I was very surprised Reid fell down that far at the time.
A lot of clubs overlooked him though, not just us.

[Dancin' Douggy]

It's a disgrace. Why didn't our club have the nouse to pick him early....like the other clubs did? Oh wait.......

It's still a disgrace.
We need more than anything a Key forward and he's the son of a former player,
we should have been all over him.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Neither, Dalrymple.
I was very surprised Reid fell down that far at the time.
A lot of clubs overlooked him though, not just us.

Dalrymple eh? RELEASE THE HOUNDS!

[Eastdog]

It's still a disgrace.
We need more than anything a Key forward and he's the son of a former player,
we should have been all over him.

Wasn't there the case where we could have picked up Buddy Franklin.

[AndrewP6]

Wasn't there the case where we could have picked up Buddy Franklin.

Yes, but Ryan Griffen goes alright.

[Eastdog]

Yes, but Ryan Griffen goes alright.

Yeah Griff is very good. We shouldn't complain too much on that one. We need a recruiter that can really pick the talent in the draft otherwise we are going to be let down again.

[anfo27]

Actually thought about not going to the footy today & thats never happened before. That second half was as bad as anything we have produced this year. Would rather get flogged playing more kids than get embarrassed playing as many older blokes as we did today.
No point going through the negatives as I could be here all night. Only positives would be draft picks. Can't wait for this season to be over.

Also the umpires were worse than anything we have had this year. That holding the ball decision against us when a Hawthorn player had the ball & was at the bottom of the pack but we still got pinged for HTB was a ripper. I've never seen that before so thank you to the umpire for making that happen. I felt like jumping the fence & burying that maggot in a tackle of my own, Taylor Walker style.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Wasn't there the case where we could have picked up Buddy Franklin.

Yes, but Ryan Griffen is obviously a great talent so you can cop that one.
And of course they can't get it right 100% of the time but..............


Christian Howard / Sam Reid?

[Ghost Dog]

I have not yet seen the game, not too sure I will. I have a bit of crap happening at the moment, I used to get withdrawal symptoms when I could not go to a game (let alone not watch it live on tv).
Sadly it is no longer the case. That said, I will be going next week.

Hope you can turn it around Desipura, whatever crap is going on. And Sorry that the club you love couldn't add a bit of pride to your day.
What did everyone think of the press conference? At least he didn't beat around the bush.

[Sedat]

That last 6 weeks have may wondering if we are on the right track.... The light is off at the end of the tunnel... Let's hope we can find the switch at some point in time.

We are playing a horrible brand of footy, from what I'm hearing is turning away our fans in droves.... Me included.
The person in charge of memberships at the Dogs has the worst job in the AFL (apart from our key forward at any given week). We are unwatchable, unskilled, non-competitive, timid and slow. We are poor offensively and we are just as poor defensively. Our game plan is boring as batshit and we never, ever pull the trigger and take the game on. We have no x-factor in the team and our best players are rising 30+. Frankly speaking, why would anyone go and see the Dogs for the remainder of the season apart from the blindest of club loyalties? That is the only reason I keep going most weeks.

I'm worried about our future beyond the current broadcast agreement. We will be non-competitive for the majority of that time and I predict our crowds and memberships will continue to head south as we spend time well outside the 8 playing a style of footy that is borderline unwatchable. We don't exactly have a media spruiker as senior coach and we are fast becoming irrelevant to the wider football community. Take your Dogs supporting hat off and ask yourself if you were a prospective sponsor, would you plough your ad revenue into such an unattractive proposition?

[Eastdog]

Yes, but Ryan Griffen is obviously a great talent so you can cop that one.
And of course they can't get it right 100% of the time but..............


Christian Howard / Sam Reid?

Were we actually in a position to get Sam Reid because his father didn't play 100 games for us or didn't that matter.

[Ghost Dog]

The person in charge of memberships at the Dogs has the worst job in the AFL (apart from our key forward at any given week). We are unwatchable, unskilled, non-competitive, timid and slow. We are poor offensively and we are just as poor defensively. Our game plan is boring as batshit and we never, ever pull the trigger and take the game on. We have no x-factor in the team and our best players are rising 30+. Frankly speaking, why would anyone go and see the Dogs for the remainder of the season apart from the blindest of club loyalties? That is the only reason I keep going most weeks.

I'm worried about our future beyond the current broadcast agreement. We will be non-competitive for the majority of that time and I predict our crowds and memberships will continue to head south as we spend time well outside the 8 playing a style of footy that is borderline unwatchable. We don't exactly have a media spruiker as senior coach and we are fast becoming irrelevant to the wider football community. Take your Dogs supporting hat off and ask yourself if you were a prospective sponsor, would you plough your ad revenue into such an unattractive proposition?

I went and saw the North Game earlier in the year. I sat behind the goals and watched some really good passages of play. I'm not sure it's all doom and gloom, if we can only match that level again. I also worry about a hemorrhaging membership. Wonder what Lantern is up to these days? I really miss his contribution to the boards.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Were we actually in a position to get Sam Reid because his father didn't play 100 games for us or didn't that matter.

It didn't matter. He was still available to pick when we took Howard and when we took Tutt.

[Redemption97]

The only good to come from games like today is that Macca & co can see what needs to be done and who needs to go at the end of the season. This game along with many others has nailed into my mind how lacking in class we are. The early picks in the draft is the only good to come out of this rubbish season we are enduring. I pray that our recruiters make our picks count to make this all worth it.

[GVGjr]

Were we actually in a position to get Sam Reid because his father didn't play 100 games for us or didn't that matter.

We took Jason Tutt ahead of him

[always right]

It's still a disgrace.
We need more than anything a Key forward and he's the son of a former player,
we should have been all over him.

How is it relevant that he was the son of a former player if we had no access to him under the father/son rule?

[bornadog]

Anyone else starting to question our fitness? We cannot sustain effort and get knocked off the ball very easily.

I hope it is fitness because otherwise it is lack of effort.

Smashed in CP by 40 plus, and clearances = lack of effort. Basically they gave up.

[bornadog]

Howard is just one of a long list of problems we currently have, but his abject performance can't be ignored. He was dreadfully disappointing and has been a number of times this season.

I know everyone is going on about Howard, and I agree he was bad. But he had at least 15 other mates out there last night.

Most of us, and me included overrate our players compared to the benchmarks in Collingwood, Sydney, etc. We just don't have the players and I come back to the fact that at least 10 need to be cleaned out.

[Mantis]

The person in charge of memberships at the Dogs has the worst job in the AFL (apart from our key forward at any given week). We are unwatchable, unskilled, non-competitive, timid and slow. We are poor offensively and we are just as poor defensively. Our game plan is boring as batshit and we never, ever pull the trigger and take the game on. We have no x-factor in the team and our best players are rising 30+. Frankly speaking, why would anyone go and see the Dogs for the remainder of the season apart from the blindest of club loyalties? That is the only reason I keep going most weeks.

I'm worried about our future beyond the current broadcast agreement. We will be non-competitive for the majority of that time and I predict our crowds and memberships will continue to head south as we spend time well outside the 8 playing a style of footy that is borderline unwatchable. We don't exactly have a media spruiker as senior coach and we are fast becoming irrelevant to the wider football community. Take your Dogs supporting hat off and ask yourself if you were a prospective sponsor, would you plough your ad revenue into such an unattractive proposition?

When you put it like that we should all be very scared. Let's hope the board, staff & coaches know how to steer the ship back in the right direction... but at present, and I think like you I have no faith that they do and only see trouble ahead of us.

All I'm hearing at the minute is that we have to get games into the kids, which we do, but if the type of footy we are teaching them is an out-dated style from many moons ago what's the point?? Are we simply going to flick a switch when they get to 50 games and they will start playing abrand of footy that could be successful? Let's take the game on and see how we go... this chipping around and playing 'safe' footy isn't winning over any fans... infact it's turning them away.

[Mantis]

I know everyone is going on about Howard, and I agree he was bad. But he had at least 15 other mates out there last night.

Most of us, and me included overrate our players compared to the benchmarks in Collingwood, Sydney, etc. We just don't have the players and I come back to the fact that at least 10 need to be cleaned out.

How many of those 10 played yesterday?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

How many of those 10 played yesterday?

You could very easily find at least 6 from yesterday's debacle. These would include Sherman, DJ, Howard, Markovic, Gilbee and Hargrave. To these you would add Hooper, Mulligan, Moles and either Vesz or Panos. Panos is obviously not in BMcC's long term plans otherwise he would have been tried as a forward by now. Both Gilbee and Hargrave have been fine servants of the club but have now passed there use by date. Good clubs clean out players en mass when rebuilding and we need to desperately to do likewise. We are kidding ourselves into thinking our current list is anywhere good enough. Our lack of depth simply shows that you can drop 4-5 players and their replacements do not impact on the team's performance.

[Ozza]

I know everyone is going on about Howard, and I agree he was bad. But he had at least 15 other mates out there last night.


He did. However, what is undefendable about Howard is - well there's no nice way of putting it - he isn't hard enough , by a long way.

He had several opportunities - after making errors - to get in low and hard while the ball was still in dispute and didn't. It looks terrible - and that sort of stuff flattens the whole group out when they've been working hard (in the first half). Howard was directly responsible for 3 Hawthorn goals in the first half - with 2 very questionable efforts - and one where he ball watched instead of getting goal side of his opponent. And we went in to half time 3 goals down.

I don't think there's anything wrong with calling him out on it. He's older than Wallis, Libba, Dahlhaus. And we expect those guys to get in low and hard at the footy every time its in dispute.

[Ozza]

You could very easily find at least 6 from yesterday's debacle. These would include Sherman, DJ, Howard, Markovic, Gilbee and Hargrave. To these you would add Hooper, Mulligan, Moles and either Vesz or Panos. Panos is obviously not in BMcC's long term plans otherwise he would have been tried as a forward by now. Both Gilbee and Hargrave have been fine servants of the club but have now passed there use by date. Good clubs clean out players en mass when rebuilding and we need to desperately to do likewise. We are kidding ourselves into thinking our current list is anywhere good enough. Our lack of depth simply shows that you can drop 4-5 players and their replacements do not impact on the team's performance.

Good post NBP. Agree on all of the above. Particularly on the Gilbs and Hargrave front.
Only player I'd 'save' from your list would be Vez - who I think shows something when he's given some regular opportunity.

[Dancin' Douggy]

How is it relevant that he was the son of a former player if we had no access to him under the father/son rule?

We should have been aware of him.
He should have been on our radar.

[bornadog]

How many of those 10 played yesterday?

True not many, and maybe we need to add more to the list of ten.

[always right]

We should have been aware of him.
He should have been on our radar.

Who says we weren't? Perhaps like so many other clubs we simply didn't rate him highly.

[Dancin' Douggy]

OK. Always right.
But I'm sick to the stomach that we rated Howard and Tutt higher than him.

All my life as a bulldog supporter, I / we've been starved of tall marking forwards.

We haven't drafted a good one since Chris Grant in 1988.
And even when we had Grant, we never had the 1/2 punch that great teams have.
Brown / Lynch. Brown / Bradshaw. Dunstall / Brereton. Cary / Longmire. Cloke / Daws.

(Hall doesn't count. He fell in our lap in the twilight of his career.)

Please let me be angry at the recruiters for ignoring the son of an ex player who fits exactly what we've been craving for, for over 20 years, and taking two speculative short midfielders instead.

[Sedat]

Good post NBP. Agree on all of the above. Particularly on the Gilbs and Hargrave front.
Agree with this but it is an indictment on Howard that Gilbee is even getting a game, let alone outperforming him.

[Mantis]

OK. Always right.
But I'm sick to the stomach that we rated Howard and Tutt higher than him.

All my life as a bulldog supporter, I / we've been starved of tall marking forwards.

We haven't drafted a good one since Chris Grant in 1988.
And even when we had Grant, we never had the 1/2 punch that great teams have.
Brown / Lynch. Brown / Bradshaw. Dunstall / Brereton. Cary / Longmire. Cloke / Daws.

(Hall doesn't count. He fell in our lap in the twilight of his career.)

Please let me be angry at the recruiters for ignoring the son of an ex player who fits exactly what we've been craving for, for over 20 years, and taking two speculative short midfielders instead.

Are you missing the fact that we took Cordy, Jones & Roughead the year before we drafted Howard & Tutt? How many 'big' guys do you want us to draft?

Up until the start of this year you wouldn't be out of place in thinking that Jones was tracking along as well, if not better than Sam Reid... the fact that he hasn't come on this year is another matter altogether.

[Maddog37]

Agree with this but it is an indictment on Howard that Gilbee is even getting a game, let alone outperforming him.

Howard has played 12 games of AFL senior footy.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Are you missing the fact that we took Cordy, Jones & Roughead the year before we drafted Howard & Tutt? How many 'big' guys do you want us to draft?

Up until the start of this year you wouldn't be out of place in thinking that Jones was tracking along as well, if not better than Sam Reid... the fact that he hasn't come on this year is another matter altogether.

How about having Jones AND Reid? You know? A full forward and a centre half forward.

Cordy and Roughhead are ruck stock.

I would rather keep drafting tall forwards 'til one or two of them 'click' rather then watching our endless army of midfielders kicking to a midget forward line.

I've been watching that for 25 years now.

[Mantis]

How about having Jones AND Reid? You know? A full forward and a centre half forward.

Cordy and Roughhead are ruck stock.

I would rather keep drafting tall forwards 'til one or two of them 'click' rather then watching our endless army of midfielders kicking to a midget forward line.

I've been watching that for 25 years now.

I get your point, but prior to Jones coming to the club we drafted Jarrad Grant at #5 the previous year so one would have thought our KPF stocks looked ok.

And who is to say that Reid would be getting a kick in our team at present as it's a bit easier playing in the top team compared to one that is clearly struggling.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I don't think Grant has ever really looked like a KPF.
He just doesn't seem to run like one or have the body shape.

On a side note, I seem to remember reading an interview with Scott Clayton in which he dissected the inner machinations of that particular draft.

He said that if Jarrad Grant wasn't the best player in the draft, available at pick 5, he'd swim from St. Kilda to Williamstown.
Anyone want to send him some speedos?

[Desipura]

I don't think Grant has ever really looked like a KPF.
He just doesn't seem to run like one or have the body shape.

On a side note, I seem to remember reading an interview with Scott Clayton in which he dissected the inner machinations of that particular draft.

He said that if Jarrad Grant wasn't the best player in the draft, available at pick 5, he'd swim from St. Kilda to Williamstown.
Anyone want to send him some speedos?
The same Clayton who stated had Paul O'Shea been available for the following years draft, he would have gone top 10.

[always right]

The same Clayton who stated had Paul O'Shea been available for the following years draft, he would have gone top 10.

And if I recall correctly, we as supporters all gloated how clever our club was to be so visionary. Let's face it....drafting is largely speculative, particularly the deeper in the draft you go.

[Dancin' Douggy]

And if I recall correctly, we as supporters all gloated how clever our club was to be so visionary. Let's face it....drafting is largely speculative, particularly the deeper in the draft you go.

Good point. But it should NEVER be speculative at the top end.

[always right]

Good point. But it should NEVER be speculative at the top end.

Absolutely agree.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Absolutely agree.

I guess that's why the Howard / Tutt selections just rile me.

[always right]

I guess that's why the Howard / Tutt selections just rile me.

Clearly:)