Let the tanking begin

[bornadog]

Over the last few weeks of the season, ie whats left, I would play Roberts, Pearce, Jones, Skinner, Hill, Campbell, Panos, upgrade JJ and lets see what they are made of. It won't hurt to give them a game.

[GVGjr]

Wow, I expected this sort of tripe from others but not Bornadog.

We can't get supporters to go to games now and the answer apparently is to lay down and give them no reason to attend.

[Maddog37]

I must agree with playing people that need to be assessed as to their future at the club.

They need to be in form as per Roberts and JJ. No token games.

Is that tanking?

[Mantis]

What's the point of playing kids in a team with no structure and a mentality of 'laying over'.

[Maddog37]

What's the point in playing old guys?

[bornadog]

Wow, I expected this sort of tripe from others but not Bornadog.

We can't get supporters to go to games now and the answer apparently is to lay down and give them no reason to attend.

Gary, just a discussion thread to see what posters think for the rest of the season. Would you play any of the kids who haven't had a chance yet?

[SlimPickens]

Over the last few weeks of the season, ie whats left, I would play Roberts, Pearce, Jones, Skinner, Hill, Campbell, upgrade JJ and lets see what they are made of. It won't hurt to give them a game.

Why would we need to tank? The way we are playing would suggest we're not likely to win another game for the season.

Why not just focus on getting the mix right that will take us forward and leave the idea of tanking out of it.

[GVGjr]

Gary, just a discussion thread to see what posters think for the rest of the season. Would you play any of the kids who haven't had a chance yet?

The thread title is about tanking and if we do it I hope we lose our draft picks. The lesson will then be learned.

If you are talking about specifically developing some players then the thread title is way off course.

I'm still of the belief that a position in the senior side needs to be earned not handed out like a free sample in a supermarket.

[GVGjr]

Why would we need to tank? The way we are playing would suggest we're not likely to win another game for the season.

Why not just focus on getting the mix right that will take us forward and leave the idea of tanking out of it.

Exactly right. The ongoing theme by supporters to want to cheat the system is a shocking indictment of the game and threatens full on free agency. Why have a draft if this is what people keep asking for.

[bornadog]

The thread title is about tanking and if we do it I hope we lose our draft picks. The lesson will then be learned.

If you are talking about specifically developing some players then the thread title is way off course.

I'm still of the believe that a position in the senior side needs to be earned not handed out like a free sample in a supermarket.

Yeah probably not a good choice of the thread title, but gets the attention of posters:D

However, I would like to see a few more players debut this season to give them a taste. With Marckovic doing a Hammy, why not try Roberts, he has been playing well at Willi. You note I didn't mention Talia, I think next year he may get a crack. JJ has been playing well, and his pace is something we need. I thought Pearce should have had a few more games and prefer him in than Gilbee. We have tried Campbell, so why not try Hill. He seems to have kicked a few in the last couple of weeks (albeit in the Dev squad).

The beltings surely can't be worse than what we are getting.


The ongoing theme by supporters to want to cheat the system is a shocking indictment of the game and threatens full on free agency. Why have a draft if this is what people keep asking for.

I would never ever advocate we lose on purpose. We must try and win every game.

[jazzadogs]

Agree with the sentiment, but not the thread title.

I would actually be extremely disappointed if the club doesn't continue trialling our younger players at the expense of those who are likely to be delisted/retired at seasons end. A mass cleanout does seem like the best option, and we need to analyse our list to determine who should be involved. Not only that, but we need to continue the development of those players who are going to be part of our next premiership tilt.

One of the major issues I can see is that a lot of the players we need/want to look at are tall, and we can't afford to have too many talls in the side at one time.

[GVGjr]

However, I would like to see a few more players debut this season to give them a taste. With Marckovic doing a Hammy, why not try Roberts, he has been playing well at Willi.



That's just natural progression and development. It's interesting you have gone with Roberts instead of Talia but why not Jones to replace Markovic or is he a little old?


JJ has been playing well, and his pace is something we need. I thought Pearce should have had a few more games and prefer him in than Gilbee. We have tried Campbell, so why not try Hill. He seems to have kicked a few in the last couple of weeks (albeit in the Dev squad).



JJ isn't long back from an injury and I think he needs a couple of more weeks.

I think we have been developing the younger players on the list but I think bringing 4 or 5 of them in won't help them long term

[chef]

TBH we are that bad, do we really need to tank?

We are going to finish bottom 3 the way we are going anyway.

[bornadog]

That's just natural progression and development. It's interesting you have gone with Roberts instead of Talia but why not Jones to replace Markovic or is he a little old? I think we have been developing the younger players on the list but I think bringing 4 or 5 of them in won't help them long term

Not sure what you mean by that comment?

We have 7 games to play, not saying bring in 4 or 5 in one week. I would like to see some guys given a go between now and then season end.

[Remi Moses]

Don't need to even contemplate it.
We're a bad team already, and young players will get a look in.
Any end of season surgeries should happen now.

[GVGjr]

Not sure what you mean by that comment?

We have 7 games to play, not saying bring in 4 or 5 in one week. I would like to see some guys given a go between now and then season end.

I would have thought that Jones would be the first player I'd try to get back into the side more so than Roberts being gifted a game. If it's more important to give the untried a run then Jones is probably too experienced.

Do you really think one or two games will help the youngsters over the longer term? I don't.

[Maddog37]

One or two games to see how much quicker it is can only help them surely?

[bornadog]

I would have thought that Jones would be the first player I'd try to get back into the side more so than Roberts being gifted a game. If it's more important to give the untried a run then Jones is probably too experienced.

Do you really think one or two games will help the youngsters over the longer term? I don't.

My OP had Jones in

[Bulldog Joe]

I think I would prefer they keep any players with form at Williamstown, where they can be competitive in games and saved from demoralising defeat that they will cop in Bulldog games.

[bulldogsman]

I would have thought that Jones would be the first player I'd try to get back into the side more so than Roberts being gifted a game. If it's more important to give the untried a run the Jones is probably too experienced.

Do you really think one or two games will help the youngsters over the longer term? I don't.

Why do you say gifted? Hasn't he been good? I think he's been an emergency a few times including last week.

[westdog54]

Over the last few weeks of the season, ie whats left, I would play Roberts, Pearce, Jones, Skinner, Hill, Campbell, upgrade JJ and lets see what they are made of. It won't hurt to give them a game.

Agree with the sentiment, but like GVG I'm gobsmacked that you've even put the word tanking in there. It may have just been a poor choice of words, but as poor choices of words go, bloody hell...

[GVGjr]

Why do you say gifted? Hasn't he been good? I think he's been an emergency a few times including last week.

I'm not against any player earning their spot but I don't believe some of the players being mentioned have. FWIW, I'd have Jones and Grant well ahead of Roberts and they would be my selection priority. If there is a still a spot or two then Roberts would be in the mix.

[Topdog]

TBH we are that bad, do we really need to tank?

We are going to finish bottom 3 the way we are going anyway.

We are that bad that we should. The league is that disgraceful that we won't even be bottom 4

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree with most of what has been said. Bornadog's sentiment is mostly right.

I think we need to trial a couple of players to see if it's worth keeping them or not. Panos is first on that list -- he's been solid down back and up forward for Williamstown at various times, so it's time to figure out if he has a future with us. I'll be really disappointed if we don't play him and then delist him. When I look at Cordy, I don't see how he would be further ahead of Panos (let alone Roughy, Grant and Jones).

Veszpremi and to a lesser extent Skinner are in the same situation.

[bornadog]

Agree with most of what has been said. Bornadog's sentiment is mostly right.

I think we need to trial a couple of players to see if it's worth keeping them or not. Panos is first on that list -- he's been solid down back and up forward for Williamstown at various times, so it's time to figure out if he has a future with us. I'll be really disappointed if we don't play him and then delist him. When I look at Cordy, I don't see how he would be further ahead of Panos (let alone Roughy, Grant and Jones).

Veszpremi and to a lesser extent Skinner are in the same situation.

Thanks for reminding me about Panos, I added him in the OP.

[jeemak]

Agree with most of what has been said. Bornadog's sentiment is mostly right.

I think we need to trial a couple of players to see if it's worth keeping them or not. Panos is first on that list -- he's been solid down back and up forward for Williamstown at various times, so it's time to figure out if he has a future with us. I'll be really disappointed if we don't play him and then delist him. When I look at Cordy, I don't see how he would be further ahead of Panos (let alone Roughy, Grant and Jones).

Veszpremi and to a lesser extent Skinner are in the same situation.

You're right. I don't like the idea of ditching a player prior to him being tested, especially when they've put in solid performances at reserve level.

The word tanking is a bit redundant these days. When you're as bad as we are and need to look to the future it isn't taking if you play development players to test them out. I think however, that we need to understand that clubs are not going to show any sign of compromising the draft through tanking. The AFL hasn't admitted to the public that tankking exists, but you can bet your bottom dollar it has had "off the record" discussions with each club stating that any club engaged in the practice will be treated poorly moving forwards. The commercial relationship the AFL has with betting agencies are far more important to it than the process of clubs bottoming out and rejuvinating to have another tilt, and they'll be extremely peeved if any one club compromises that.

Anyway, I hope the club isn't holding on to the hope supporters will stick out the current situation with the same players getting opportunities week in, week out, and I hope it is dilligent enough to understand that the only thing we have going for us right now is hope in some untried younger players showing something at senior level.

[FrediKanoute]

What's the point of playing kids in a team with no structure and a mentality of 'laying over'.

Agreed. Its not a great assessment of a player if they are put in a team playing for very little, with minimal support. Sure you may see flashes of brilliance, but does that really tell you just how good a player is, or does it serve to illuminate a player against unreal expectations. Personally we should play guys who buy into the coaches message and are doing the things that the coach is asking.

I wonder whether guys like Panos and Hill haven't cracked a game yet because they haven't taken on what Macca and his team want?

[FrediKanoute]

I'm still of the belief that a position in the senior side needs to be earned not handed out like a free sample in a supermarket.

Agreed. The moment you play guys just for the experience and not based on performance it sends a horrible message to guys genuinely trying/working for the team.

[MrMahatma]

If you look across our team there are a load of guys with only a handful of games. How many kids can we realisticly play at once?

I think we need to swap kid for kid as much as removing old blokes with little future. We need to develop, not just play, the younger guys.

Having said that, who of the pups has made improvement this year? Wallis, Ayce (at least he's not breaking!), Libba...?

[bornadog]

Over the last few weeks of the season, ie whats left, I would play Roberts, Pearce, Jones, Skinner, Hill, Campbell, Panos, upgrade JJ and lets see what they are made of. It won't hurt to give them a game.

Are we doing what Dean Bailey was accused of? I don't believe we care about winning, I think the coach is on the path of teaching, experimenting, just like Bailey did at Melbourne.

The seasons gone, lets play some more kids. Panos, Hill, Roberts, surely should get a game before the end of season.

[chef]

Are we doing what Dean Bailey was accused of? I don't believe we care about winning, I think the coach is on the path of teaching, experimenting, just like Bailey did at Melbourne.

The seasons gone, lets play some more kids. Panos, Hill, Roberts, surely should get a game before the end of season.

Sometimes looks that way.

[LongWait]

Are we doing what Dean Bailey was accused of? I don't believe we care about winning, I think the coach is on the path of teaching, experimenting, just like Bailey did at Melbourne.

The seasons gone, lets play some more kids. Panos, Hill, Roberts, surely should get a game before the end of season.

I think that we want to win - the coaches want to win and the players want to win.

We are realistic though, and this is a development year in which it is crucial we find out as much as we can about those on our list and get as many games into the younger players as we reasonably can. This approach may hypothetically cost us a game or two - we will never know for sure though.

[LostDoggy]

Article here about tanking from someone we know.
http://theconversation.edu.au/afl-and-tanking-the-cure-might-be-worse-than-the-disease-8623

[westdog54]

Fk
Are we doing what Dean Bailey was accused of? I don't believe we care about winning, I think the coach is on the path of teaching, experimenting, just like Bailey did at Melbourne.

The seasons gone, lets play some more kids. Panos, Hill, Roberts, surely should get a game before the end of season.

Absolutely not.

Bailey was accused of intentionally playing players out of position and making tactical changes designed to disadvantage the team on game day.

I hardly think Mccartney is doing anything of the sort. Yes, we're playing an inexperienced team but I hardly think we're trying to lose.

[westdog54]

Article here about tanking from someone we know.
http://theconversation.edu.au/afl-and-tanking-the-cure-might-be-worse-than-the-disease-8623

Saw that too. Always love reading Matt's work.

[LostDoggy]

I don't think you can regularly tank by 10 goals.