Game Day 2012 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs St Kilda

[BulldogBelle]

This is the discussion thread for our Sunday afternoon game against St Kilda at ES.

My predictions are:

The Dogs by 12 points
BOG : Matthew Boyd
Luke Dahlhaus to kick the first goal

[azabob]

Saints 7 goals
BOG : Cross
Dickson first goal

[bornadog]

Saints by 37

BOG: Murphy

first Goal: Jones

[KT31]

Saints by 25
BBOG:Cross
BFG:Williams

[AndrewP6]

Aints by 41
BOG for us Griff
First goal Dicko

[westdog54]

I look at the way we line up, and call me nuts but I'm fancying our chances of pinching one here. Probably false hope but I'll take it.

Dogs by 11
Boyd BOG
C.Smith First goal.

Shame JJ misses out but hopefully they find a spot for him next week.

[Eastdog]

Dogs by 5 points
BOG: Liam Picken
First Goal: Liam Jones

[Greystache]

Saints by 25
BOG- Dahlhaus
First Goal- Dickson

[Go_Dogs]

Saints by 40
BOG - Griffen
First goal - Jones

[SlimPickens]

Saints 48 pts
Bog Wallis
First goal Jones

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Saints by 65 points
BOG Picken
1st goal Griff

[KT31]

Margin seems to be increasing with each post.

[LostDoggy]

Saints by 85
Bog Boyd
First Goal Dickson

[The Underdog]

Saints by 57 points
Dogs BOG: Boyd
First goal: Dickson

Not looking forward to the regular sight of Lenny Hayes ripping us apart in the midfield.

[Sedat]

Not looking forward to the regular sight of Lenny Hayes ripping us apart in the midfield.At least we have been well trained to expect this in the last 6 years and it won't come as the slightest surprise to see it happen again today.

Saints very comfortably.

[jazzadogs]

No late change for Dogs, Vez to be the sub.

Saints have brought in Wilkes for Siposs.

[Eastdog]

Let's hope we can put a good effort in at least.

[bornadog]

Vez sub, Roughead to play back, Wiliams forward

[SlimPickens]

Lake can't go with Riewoldt, can he?

[Mantis]

Bad start by Lake.. Just hasn't got the work rate or work ethic to stay with Riewoldt.

[Doc26]

Lack of experience by the MC playing Lake on Riewoldt. Big mistake. Wondering when they will wake up to the blunder.

[Eastdog]

Dickson is going to be a very good player for us going forward. Really been impressed with him this year.

[azabob]

Lake can't go with Riewoldt, can he?


Bad start by Lake.. Just hasn't got the work rate or work ethic to stay with Riewoldt.


Lack of experience by the MC playing Lake on Riewoldt. Big mistake. Wondering when they will wake up to the blunder.

No he can't, but I'd prefer Williams forward.

[Eastdog]

Dominating the clearances and we are on top ATM. Very good start.

[GVGjr]

How good was that kick by Saad that resulted in the first goal?

[SlimPickens]

Wallis has been excellent in close.

[LostDoggy]

Bad start by Gilbee too. 3 poor disposals in a row.

[SlimPickens]

Cross AC joint knackered!

[jazzadogs]

It's just the way Lake plays...he will be relying on poor delivery and chop-outs from the other defenders to help control Riewoldt, and I'm not sure he'll get either.

Solid start so far. Grant down back is another interesting move.

[Eastdog]

Minson working hard. No one in the forward line determined for us. How many goals do you think we get today.

[SlimPickens]

Have liked the efforts of grant across half back

[LostDoggy]

How tough is Cross? The shoulder was out but he put it back in.

[SlimPickens]

Cross full dislocation of the right AC joint. Suggest that might be the end of his season. Very crude tackle by Wilkes not unlike the tackle on Carrazzo earlier in the year.

[Eastdog]

That piece of play from Libba was great. He is going to impact games further down the track.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I saw Pearce fanatically attack a contest deep in our defense. A great effort when it looked a 50-50% that the ball would be picked up by the Saints and possibly score.

[Max469]

Wilkes will be looked at surely.

Nice whack to head that Howard got right on the siren.

St Kilda are just a team of two bit thugs.

[bornadog]

Good competitive first quarter, but we have seen this before. They need to do this for 4 quarters and then even if they lose, we can see the effort is there.

Minson rucking well, and I like Grant off the backline.

[Eastdog]

Good competitive first quarter, but we have seen this before. They need to do this for 4 quarters and then even if they lose, we can see the effort is there.

Minson rucking well, and I like Grant off the backline.

The effort needs to be there for the whole match not patches.

[EasternWest]

How tough is Cross? The shoulder was out but he put it back in.

Hard as nails. Impossible not to love him.

[Eastdog]

Hard as nails. Impossible not to love him.

Cross is great. Hard not to like him. He just put his body on the line all the time just like Picken.

[azabob]

Shame for Cross. Shows how much it all means to him.

[azabob]

Griffen is really struggling with his goal kicking of late.

[LostDoggy]

I wonder if Crossy will be looking at an op? Might explain why he's so upset?

[LostDoggy]

Keeping this effort up will go a long way to winning some fans back

[SlimPickens]

There is being tough and there is being stupid. Cross needs to sit out the rest of the game, he is cactus!

[Eastdog]

Missing a lot of shots. I hope we don't fizzle away now.

[kruder]

Murphy on Milne? If we actually want to win the game surely we have to get him dangerous. Get Picken on him one less poor user around the footy that way.

[LostDoggy]

The Liam Jones situation is frustrating in terms of him killing it at VFL level and then not getting near it at AFL level

[LostDoggy]

There is being tough and there is being stupid. Cross needs to sit out the rest of the game, he is cactus!

Minson got injured soon after so that's why it took so long.

[w3design]

Lake is having a mare of a game.

[kruder]

The Liam Jones situation is frustrating in terms of him killing it at VFL level and then not getting near it at AFL level

Kicking 3 goals in the VFL is killing it? He is scared of the footy, simply does not want the ball in his space.

[Mantis]

Chip, chip, chip.... turnover.. Off to the races.

[LostDoggy]

Kicking 3 goals in the VFL is killing it? He is scared of the footy, simply does not want the ball in his space.

Killing it was probably incorrect terminology but you know what I mean.

[BulldogBelle]

We can't move the football. Watching us play from the defence is like watching 22 Farren Rays. I hate this.

[LostDoggy]

We have f all reward for our effort today and it's killing us.

[bornadog]

One miserable goal that quarter.

My biggest frustration this year is Griffen. This guy has so much talent yet he has struggled from about round 6. He maybe getting tagged but too bad, he is better than that.

[Eastdog]

We are one of the worst sides in moving it forward which 3 years we were really good at it and 3 years ago we were one of the quickest teams. How times change. This is a poor period for our club and hopefully from here it's upwards for us.

[LostDoggy]

Kicking 3 goals in the VFL is killing it? He is scared of the footy, simply does not want the ball in his space.

Jones will never prosper under this game style.
We also put Williams into the same role he was doing in the past.

[bornadog]

Jones will never prosper under this game style.
We also put Williams into the same role he was doing in the past.

Williams should be at CHB where he belongs. The delivery to Jones is so poor and yes Chops the style of play and the game plan does not help him one bit.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We have f all reward for our effort today and it's killing us.

It's great to have effort, but it's all for naught if there doesn't seem to be a viable plan to go with it.
I can accept us rebuilding, I can accept losses. But I would hope to along the way see glimpses of a methodology for how we are going to play in the future. Things such as occasional signs of how we would like to move the ball from defense to offense, or how we would like to bring the ball into our forward line.
I just can't see any of it. At the moment in defense, we stop, switch play, then stop, switch again......and then either turn it over whilst doing this or we just eventually bang it down the line where the opposition has had time to set up. If we're going to eventually bang it downfield, surely we're better off doing it straight away before the opposition have significant numbers to defend.
And similarly delivering the ball inside 50 is just excruciating to watch, no system, no thought, no hope.
I can't remember a side in recent memory as inept in play or as bereft of skill as us right now, perhaps not since the dying days of Fitzroy.

[bornadog]

Jones with one handball to half time. I would switch him to the ruck and Minson rest in the forward pocket.

[Maddog37]

I would run Jones on Revolt for a while and give him a lesson in hard work.

[Mantis]

I would run Jones on Revolt for a while and give him a lesson in hard work.

Is it only hard work letting him down?

[Maddog37]

Is it only hard work letting him down?

Not sure anymore.

[LostDoggy]

Williams should be at CHB where he belongs. The delivery to Jones is so poor and yes Chops the style of play and the game plan does not help him one bit.

Williams kicks just as good as Jones too. 2 shots, 2 out on the full.
I'd accept their progress if one could kick a goal.

[Doc26]

Murphy on Milne? If we actually want to win the game surely we have to get him dangerous. Get Picken on him one less poor user around the footy that way.

Agree. Murphy should be freed up and given a run on the wing to hopefully improve inside 50 efficiency to give Jones an even chance.


Williams should be at CHB where he belongs. The delivery to Jones is so poor and yes Chops the style of play and the game plan does not help him one bit.

Agree BD. Riewoldt poses as a bigger threat the more the game opens up. I'd have Lake forward rather than have him at CHB.

[Rance Fan]

Poor chase by jones results in goal then

[LostDoggy]

And what changes has our masterful coach made...........none:mad:

[Rance Fan]

Why not put Jons on Reiwoldt! Thatlll teach him how its done

[kruder]

Jones will never prosper under this game style.
We also put Williams into the same role he was doing in the past.

I agree chops and bornadog that the slow ball movement does not suit any forward but gee I think you are letting off Jones lightly.

If you not getting the footy at least try and put some forward pressure on. His last two attempts at the contest he just gave up. Pathetic.

[Eastdog]

We have just gone asleep and just don't look like scoring. Murph has been ok today.

[BulldogBelle]

For a team thats one and only aim is to be hard to play against, any half skillful/hard working team will cut us open with absolute ease. We don't we ever overlap for a handball when we mark the ball outside 50 from defence?

[LostDoggy]

Sorry guys but I don't understand what the gameplan is, the dogs look lost, no pressure, do desire to get to the contest...one would say possibly tanking...this gameplan or lack of is crap.....Lagan well done smorgasbord good selection on the coach.

[Ghost Dog]

asleep. poor marking. in for a pasting

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Veszpremi is an out and out liability. Surely his career is well and truly on the line.
Grant has the concentration span of a goldfish.
This is going to be yet again another 10 plus goal hiding, with absolutely no glimpse of light for us.
.

[Rance Fan]

Its just embarassing!

[Rance Fan]

Only hope is we are that bad, maybe next year the only way will be up.

[LostDoggy]

I really don't see a future anymore, please prove me wrong.

[Doc26]

Veszpremi is an out and out liability. Surely his career is well and truly on the line.
Grant has the concentration span of a goldfish.
This is going to be yet again another 10 plus goal hiding, with absolutely no glimpse of light for us.
.

So these two are better defensive options than Hargrave ? Can't understand Ryan's exclusion from this Team.

[Maddog37]

I would like to see Libba and Wallis take two more steps before they kick. They have been clear at times and still just banged it on the boot.

[LostDoggy]

Not pretty is it? Really trying to stay optimistic but it's hard as I really can't see what we are trying to do.

[jeemak]

Veszpremi is an out and out liability. Surely his career is well and truly on the line.
Grant has the concentration span of a goldfish.
This is going to be yet again another 10 plus goal hiding, with absolutely no glimpse of light for us.
.

You can add Picken's two efforts with the ball just prior to Vesz's.

[Maddog37]

Dalsanto is a very good front runner.

[jeemak]

Nobody is willing to take the game on in any meaningful way.

A team of shrinking violets as soon as they get their hands on the football.

[Rance Fan]

Well thought Will has been good today!
We will probably lose him at the end of year!

[Go_Dogs]

Getting ugly now.

[Rance Fan]

Throw the white towel in!

[Rance Fan]

Gee Gia for a leader and experienced player has not been seen!
Terrible

[Eastdog]

Terrible to watch the way we are playing.

[Ghost Dog]

going to get killed.

[LostDoggy]

All we will end up being is a development team for free agency until we get a real coach, sorry smorgo you got it wrong again...first Peter Rhodes and now Macca.

[Maddog37]

Time to reassess the conditioning staff.

[Rance Fan]

Time to reassess the conditioning staff.

+ Skills staff

[Redemption97]

And what changes has our masterful coach made...........none:mad:

What would you do then Einstein? I'm sick of these cheap pots at the coach. Do you think any changes would influence the outcome of this game? You're delusional if so. We are a poor side with a very average list which desperately lacks class and footy smarts.

These players and our senior players especially need to stand up. Not the coach. I mean Boyd, Lake, Murphy, Griffen, Gilbee... Where are you? Where is the leadership and spirit from this senior group?

[AndrewP6]

Capitulation should be our middle name. Yet another embarrassing, non-competitive display.

[Eastdog]

The end of the season cant come quick enough.

[LostDoggy]

Time to reassess the conditioning staff.

Time to reassess the football department.

[craigsahibee]

Any chance of any of our blokes giving Griff a hand by taking out that turd Jones. Maybe the umpires could actually open their eyes to the tactics employed by Jones when Griff doesn't have the footy.

[AndrewP6]

going to get killed.

Getting killed already.

[LostDoggy]

We are being bullied by this bunch of f wits called st kilda. I'm livid

[ReLoad]

All we will end up being is a development team for free agency until we get a real coach, sorry smorgo you got it wrong again...first Peter Rhodes and now Macca.

Thats certainly unfair and uncalled for.

No matter which players on our current list or where they played on the ground would make any difference at all.

Picking a cheap and easy scape goat is simple.

The fact is our list is crap, the kids which we had previously banked on as being half decent (Howard, Jones, Roughhead, Grant etc) are not even slightly capable. is it Maccas fault the team is full of turnips?

On a side note, how was cross when he did his shoulder, ive never seen a more committed man at our club before, he personifies the bulldog spirit and self sacrifice and getting the most out of himself, your a bloody legend crossy.

[LostDoggy]

The end of the season cant come quick enough.

Yes I look forward to the rest then watching the same crap next year.

[ReLoad]

Let's see, Williams chub on r'walt, murph on Hayes, Pickens on milne, Boyd on Goddard for starters.

All of that has been tried and done before on multiple occasions and failed repeatedly. Lucky you are not our coach otherwise we would be back in 2008.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Time to reassess the football department.

Seriously Savage, whilst I have been bemused at times this year with our coaching staff, with respect to tactics, team selections, these sort of performances say more about the players. They have got to take ownership for the poor disposals, poor marking and an otherwise lack of application and pride in their performance week in week out.
At some stage given the number of beltings we have received over the past several weeks, these guys as a group have to show something, and they are not.
Blame the coach all you want, but these guys are pathetic at the moment and they have to own that.

[Mantis]

I really have no idea what the coaches are trying to achieve with our game style.. We are impossible to watch at present.

[Rance Fan]

29 points in 3 quarters!!
We should aim for that a quarter

[Eastdog]

The aim now is to keep it under 100 points.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

so many guys walking around

This is the really disappointing thing, where is the pride? Surely they must be getting sick of this week in week out. Where is the effort?

[jazzadogs]

What would you do then Einstein? I'm sick of these cheap pots at the coach. Do you think any changes would influence the outcome of this game? You're delusional if so. We are a poor side with a very average list which desperately lacks class and footy smarts.

These players and our senior players especially need to stand up. Not the coach. I mean Boyd, Lake, Murphy, Griffen, Gilbee... Where are you? Where is the leadership and spirit from this senior group?

+1. Whilst I'm sure there are one or two things which could have been done differently, and won us one or two extra contests, there is nothing that McCartney could have done to actually change the course of this game.

Grant down back has done a few good things, and then at other times has been terrible. A good experiment, and will no doubt be used heavily for education which I strongly support.

Not sure why people are suggesting Jones goes to Riewoldt, when they are also complaining that Lake is not doing a good enough job. We think Jones is going to do better?


the thing is, saints are awful. makes it worse

The saints are not awful. We are awful.

[LostDoggy]

Thats certainly unfair and uncalled for.

No matter which players on our current list or where they played on the ground would make any difference at all.

Picking a cheap and easy scape goat is simple.

The fact is our list is crap, the kids which we had previously banked on as being half decent (Howard, Jones, Roughhead, Grant etc) are not even slightly capable. is it Maccas fault the team is full of turnips?

On a side note, how was cross when he did his shoulder, ive never seen a more committed man at our club before, he personifies the bulldog spirit and self sacrifice and getting the most out of himself, your a bloody legend crossy.


Tell me does it look like the coaches message is getting through, no, so his coaching is poor, players do what they are told, instructed, so obviously this teaching year is not going well. If this continues who would want to stay, whether they love the club or not, each and every player wants a flag, not development. So tell me who's fault is it, we haven't had a big change in players, what lost a full forward, winger ............. Just my thoughts champ.

[Rance Fan]

The effort by some younger guys is ok.. Well at least they are trying.
Other young players though are pretty poor

[Eastdog]

This is the really disappointing thing, where is the pride? Surely they must be getting sick of this week in week out. Where is the effort?

Agree. Where is the Bulldog spirit. Right now it's non-existent.

[LostDoggy]

I think the majority of poor disposal and poor decision making comes after the players have dropped their heads because they cant work out our game style and/or realize we can't win with it.

[The Pie Man]

That 3rd quarter wasn't even remotely AFL standard.

[LostDoggy]

Roughead not a backmans backside.

[Rance Fan]

+1. Whilst I'm sure there are one or two things which could have been done differently, and won us one or two extra contests, there is nothing that McCartney could have done to actually change the course of this game.

Grant down back has done a few good things, and then at other times has been terrible. A good experiment, and will no doubt be used heavily for education which I strongly support.

Not sure why people are suggesting Jones goes to Riewoldt, when they are also complaining that Lake is not doing a good enough job. We think Jones is going to do better?



The saints are not awful. We are awful.

Its not that he will do better than lake!
Its that he may learn to work hard!! and learn from Reiwoldt on how a forward should lead

[bornadog]

All of that has been tried and done before on multiple occasions and failed repeatedly. Lucky you are not our coach otherwise we would be back in 2008.

Sorry you have no better answers, what would you do? Or would you just sit there like the coach and say wow this is great education leaving all these players in the positions they started the game with.

[jazzadogs]

Let's see, Williams chub on r'walt, murph on Hayes, Pickens on milne, Boyd on Goddard for starters.
Boyd is already on Goddard, Murphy is beating Milne, Williams is just about the only option up forward who has actually looked remotely promising.

Wouldn't have been upset to see Hargrave in the side ahead of Gilbee, to play on Milne.

I thought it was a good move at the start of the game to have Griffen starting forward, to drag C Jones out of his comfort zone. He's not an idiot, I don't understand why he is so consistently portrayed as one.

[LostDoggy]

Seriously Savage, whilst I have been bemused at times this year with our coaching staff, with respect to tactics, team selections, these sort of performances say more about the players. They have got to take ownership for the poor disposals, poor marking and an otherwise lack of application and pride in their performance week in week out.
At some stage given the number of beltings we have received over the past several weeks, these guys as a group have to show something, and they are not.
Blame the coach all you want, but these guys are pathetic at the moment and they have to own that.

Again I say, they do what the football department coaches tell them to do, the coaching department is very poor, the players are not listening, more then likely they ain't getting the message. If I'm wrong we'll so be it, but my days in footy was you did what the coach told you to do, don't think things have changed.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1 goal 2 since quarter time. just laughable.

[jazzadogs]

Its not that he will do better than lake!
Its that he may learn to work hard!! and learn from Reiwoldt on how a forward should lead
I see what you're saying, but personally I can't see that being the best way to teach him.

[jeemak]

I think the majority of poor disposal and poor decision making comes after the players have dropped their heads because they cant work out our game style and/or realize we can't win with it.

Hahaha, yeah because we were so good in this area before McCartney came along.

[jazzadogs]

Again I say, they do what the football department coaches tell them to do, the coaching department is very poor, the players are not listening, more then likely they ain't getting the message. If I'm wrong we'll so be it, but my days in footy was you did what the coach told you to do, don't think things have changed.
Are they doing what the coaching department tells them or are they not listening?

[LostDoggy]

I really don't understand why people think Macca is a good senior coach....lost on that one just looks out of his depth big time. Well people will have a crack at me again to defend him.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Again I say, they do what the football department coaches tell them to do, the coaching department is very poor, the players are not listening, more then likely they ain't getting the message. If I'm wrong we'll so be it, but my days in footy was you did what the coach told you to do, don't think things have changed.

So you are saying the coach is instructing his guys NOT to mark their opponent, to dispose of the ball poorly, to walk around the ground?
Sorry mate, there are plenty of times where players don't for one reason or another follow coach instructions.
And to be honest this group of ours has history in this regard. I recall Eade saying several times last year that players were not following instructions during games.
The fact is, we have alot of guys who are either no longer up to it, some who never have been up to it, and a few more who haven'y yet learned what is required at this level to be up to it.

[LostDoggy]

Are they doing what the coaching department tells them or are they not listening?

Lol ummmmmmmm.

[Greystache]

I really don't understand why people think Macca is a good senior coach....lost on that one just looks out of his depth big time. Well people will have a crack at me again to defend him.

Posting the same thing 30 times doesn't make your posts any more insightful, and it certainly doesn't make them any more interesting read.

[Rance Fan]

I see what you're saying, but personally I can't see that being the best way to teach him.

Couldnt hurt! He hasnt developed much where he has been playing this season

[Eastdog]

1.3 since qtr time is deplorable.

[LostDoggy]

Wow, this suck, this will be 100 points and all we will hear is learning, developing and next week another 4 changes to an unsettled side....just play all the kids......useless coaching, crap playing style, no heart. Very very disappointed.

[LostDoggy]

Hahaha, yeah because we were so good in this area before McCartney came along.
Pretty obvious we were a lot better than we are now.

[Twodogs]

What would you do then Einstein?


Let's keep the name calling out of it.




These players and our senior players especially need to stand up. Not the coach. I mean Boyd, Lake, Murphy, Griffen, Gilbee... Where are you? Where is the leadership and spirit from this senior group?


Yep agree strongly. Not one player stands up and says "I am not going to let this happen"

[LostDoggy]

Posting the same thing 30 times doesn't make your posts any more insightful, and it certainly doesn't make them any more interesting read.

Oh well, we are all arm chair critics that can't do crap, all we can do is talk about it........

[LostDoggy]

It would be nice to have a fit Cooney breaking the lines, we really miss that style of player, Griffey has had a tough day.

[Greystache]

Oh well, we are all arm chair critics that can't do crap, all we can do is talk about it........

Just post it once, if anyone is interested they will reply.

[Eastdog]

Great kick by Libba to Dickson. Finally.

[Rance Fan]

Dickson tried hard today! Nice goal

[Scraggers]

Honest question ... Why is Fantasia sitting in the box ?

[Rance Fan]

How'd people see Howard, Tutt and Pearce game today?

[LostDoggy]

Wallis has tried hard today.

[AndrewP6]

Honest question ... Why is Fantasia sitting in the box ?

Chris Grant too apparently. Pretty clear message to me.

[Doggy]

:(Just kicked our fifth goal.
Lets see if we can get over 40 points for the match and beat our last score against the Saints

[w3design]

Time to play all the kids left on the list Hill Panos JJ Talia and Roberts they can't do any worse than the team we are putting out at the min.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

How'd people see Howard, Tutt and Pearce game today?

Well on the back of such a comprehensive hiding, they obviously haven't won their position, however each of them have shown glimpses of improvement.
I would like for us to use Tutt's pace and run.
Pearce has on a couple of occasions really thrown his body hard in at some contests which is encouraging.
And Howard has been okay without being damaging.

[LostDoggy]

How'd people see Howard, Tutt and Pearce game today?

Jury out on Howard he is developing, Tutt looks like he will be good in the midfield when he gets more of a motor, haven't really seen enough of Pearce.

[Mantis]

Lucky they haven't kicked straight.

[w3design]

How'd people see Howard, Tutt and Pearce game today?

Howard useless the other 2 just as bad .

[ReLoad]

Sorry you have no better answers, what would you do? Or would you just sit there like the coach and say wow this is great education leaving all these players in the positions they started the game with.

Don't get me wrong im not making excuses or accepting piss poor performance, but to put this down to just to the coach as per exactly what the poster who suggested these changes did is a joke.

[Max469]

I am not a big fan of our new coach at this time but I willing for him to show me why I should believe in him. He is a first year coach and will hopefully learn.

What I am disappointed in is our players, they all know how to kick a ball, kick a goal, lead for the ball, defend and back each other up - why in god's name have they so easily forgotten these skills?

The coach can tell them what to do but at the end of the day the players are the ones out on the field. - where they choose to listen to the coach or not. If they see that it is not working sure they are clever enough work around it.

Time to lift their game, remember how to kick goals, play as a team and have pride in the jumper they are wearing.

Lift your game doggies players.

[LostDoggy]

With that goal the MCs selection of Gilbee is justified.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Time to play all the kids left on the list Hill Panos JJ Talia and Roberts they can't do any worse than the team we are putting out at the min.

Actually I'm quite confused as to why Johanissen didn't play today? What was the need and point of promoting him early in the week if he wasn't going to play? Unless he was ill late in the week?

[Eastdog]

Doesn't look like it will be 100 pts.

[LostDoggy]

The forward pressure has all but disappeared, no run in the team after halftime....why?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

The end of the season cant come quick enough.

Don.t say that!

I cant go through another year of this (rebuild), the media will be hunting us in packs after today effort.

[LostDoggy]

Actually I'm quite confused as to why Johanissen didn't play today? What was the need and point of promoting him early in the week if he wasn't going to play? Unless he was ill late in the week?

Maybe they just wanted to pay him more?

[LostDoggy]

Don.t say that!

I cant go through another year of this (rebuild), the media will be hunting us in packs after today effort.

Finally some media pressure!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Maybe that just wanted to pay him more?
:D
Yep, cause we've got wads of cash we're just itching to spend.....

[Ghost Dog]

vezpremi is walking in the backline with the ball 20m away

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Doesn't look like it will be 100 pts.

We can thank woeful goalkicking by the Saints for that, not down to any improvement in effort from us that's for sure.

[Redemption97]

Hey I'm qualified to be a coach then according to that theory... Win the game boys and they'll do it. Coaching is so easy! Our boys must have ears full of wax.

I mean c'mon surely the players need to shoulder this season. I don't blame the young guys but the senior group this year have been poor. The list is what it is, the coaches job is to improve and develop it. These accusations that our performances this season are all on our coach are not right and frankly are insulting to our opposition.

But hey that is my opinion, if some of you sleep better at night thinking this season would have been different with another coach then believe that. I for one have watched every game and seen that we ain't that good and frankly the coach is probably doing all he can.

[LostDoggy]

vezpremi is walking in the backline with the ball 20m away

The whole team was walking after halftime.

[jeemak]

Was Gia being booed? If so, why?

[LostDoggy]

Was Gia being booed? If so, why?

Kosi bump. the dirty sniper.

[Remi Moses]

Watched it until half time,
I've got nothing left . Just Abhorent, abysmal , bleak and worst of all insipid:(:mad:

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Roughead not a backmans backside.

Oh really!

thats a surprise

[LostDoggy]

Where to now?

[jeemak]

Kosi bump. the dirty sniper.

This afternoon? Or the one from 2008?

I've been at a family do so missed bits and pieces of the game.

[ReLoad]

I've been at a family do so missed bits and pieces of the game.

Lucky you. would also have been a great time to get a root canal if you needed one as well.

[Twodogs]

I am not a big fan of our new coach at this time but I willing for him to show me why I should believe in him. He is a first year coach and will hopefully learn.


Well said. I also am no great fan of the new coach but I'm going to wait until I see what he does at season's end before I get the pitchfork out and lead a mob into the carpark at Whitten Oval.

If he cuts deep into the list and gives player's who constanly let us down their marching orders then that will give me confidence that he is getting a handle on the job.

[LostDoggy]

Lucky you. would also have been a great time to get a root canal if you needed one as well.

I'm currently pulling fingernails out and loving it compared to the crap I just watched.:)

[ReLoad]

Side Question;

Is this how a Melbourne supporter feels?

[Mantis]

Well said. I also am no great fan of the new coach but I'm going to wait until I see what he does at season's end before I get the pitchfork out and lead a mob into the carpark at Whitten Oval.

If he cuts deep into the list and gives player's who constantly let us down their marching orders then that will give me confidence that he is getting a handle on the job.

Who are you referring to here?

[Remi Moses]

Lucky you. would also have been a great time to get a root canal if you needed one as well.

I'd rather have one without anasthetic than watch that.

[LostDoggy]

Side Question;

Is this how a Melbourne supporter feels?

Yes.:eek:

[Twodogs]

Chris Grant too apparently. Pretty clear message to me.



What's that?

[bornadog]

Hey I'm qualified to be a coach then according to that theory... Win the game boys and they'll do it. Coaching is so easy! Our boys must have ears full of wax.

I mean c'mon surely the players need to shoulder this season. I don't blame the young guys but the senior group this year have been poor. The list is what it is, the coaches job is to improve and develop it. These accusations that our performances this season are all on our coach are not right and frankly are insulting to our opposition.

But hey that is my opinion, if some of you sleep better at night thinking this season would have been different with another coach then believe that. I for one have watched every game and seen that we ain't that good and frankly the coach is probably doing all he can.

If the coach made some moves and showed some passion maybe wouldn't be so critical of him.

These are bewildering?

* Williams isnot a CHF,
* Roughead isnot a CHB.
* Gilbee was cooked two years ago,
* Shaggy is in the poo because the coach doesn't like him.
* Sherman isnot an in and under player, yet the coach drops him because he wasn't getting the contested ball.
* Vez clearly shouldn't be in the side.
* Playing three rucks some week why?
* players getting smashed, but not moved
* Jones - our forward coach is teaching him what?

Four games to go, lets give some more young players a go. We are being beaten by 60 plus points so 100 points is no different.

[F'scary]

What's that?

They're making a statement that they are sticking with the coach.

[azabob]

If the coach made some moves and showed some passion maybe wouldn't be so critical of him.

These are bewildering?

* Williams isnot a CHF,
.

I wouldn't be putting a line through Williams and playing as a forward. He leads and moves, can take a mark, creates space for his teamates. Granted his kicking for goal is average but hopefully he can turn it around. He is our best option in the near future as he offers more than Jones & Cordy.

What makes you so certain he can't play forward?

[AndrewP6]

What's that?

The suits are unhappy with the state of the union, and realize the coaching panel need some help.

[bornadog]

I wouldn't be putting a line through Williams and playing as a forward. He leads and moves, can take a mark, creates space for his teamates. Granted his kicking for goal is average but hopefully he can turn it around. He is our best option in the near future as he offers more than Jones & Cordy.

What makes you so certain he can't play forward?

How many goals has he kicked ?

[Maddog37]

I am naturally optimistic but I feel like I am searching through an ocean of crap to find a pearl at the moment.

I think to myself that Pearce shows a bit and so does Tutt. Howard perseveres at least and Grant at least looks interested now. The problem is that I have such low standards now I am unsure of my own judgement.

[Twodogs]

Who are you referring to here?


Vezpremi, Higgins and Giansiracusa to start with. The usual suspects with the usual faults in their game that they have been unable or unwilling to address for years now. Tutt, Howard, Grant, Roughead, Jones and a few other younger players would be on thin ice too. I'd add Markovic and Gilbee to the list but they must be playing their last season of AFL football anyway.

[Maddog37]

The suits are unhappy with the state of the union, and realize the coaching panel need some help.


That was my read on it too.

[AndrewP6]

They're making a statement that they are sticking with the coach.

On the contrary... They're unhappy, and up there trying to figure out just what the coach is trying to achieve.

[LostDoggy]

Hall was a rap for Vez and had a bit to do getting him to the dogs, what did he see that he ain't delivering.

[LostDoggy]

They're making a statement that they are sticking with the coach.

Maybe they are there to stab him in the back?

[Ghost Dog]

Vezpremi, Higgins and Giansiracusa to start with. The usual suspects with the usual faults in their game that they have been unable or unwilling to address for years now. Tutt, Howard, Grant, Roughead, Jones and a few other younger players would be on thin ice too. I'd add Markovic and Gilbee to the list but they must be playing their last season of AFL football anyway.

Higgins was just coming good! This whole team has dropped its chin bar a few players who seem to soldier on regardless. We are in dire straits and such poor defensive marking; evidence f a team that threw in the towel.

[angelopetraglia]

Just go back from the game. Not only are we losing, we are playing a brand of football that is unwatchable.

Obviously some massive concerns in every facet of the game today. Don't know where to begin. Very, very hard to be a Bulldogs supporter today .....

[Redemption97]

If the coach made some moves and showed some passion maybe wouldn't be so critical of him.

These are bewildering?

* Williams isnot a CHF,
* Roughead isnot a CHB.
* Gilbee was cooked two years ago,
* Shaggy is in the poo because the coach doesn't like him.
* Sherman isnot an in and under player, yet the coach drops him because he wasn't getting the contested ball.
* Vez clearly shouldn't be in the side.
* Playing three rucks some week why?
* players getting smashed, but not moved
* Jones - our forward coach is teaching him what?

Four games to go, lets give some more young players a go. We are being beaten by 60 plus points so 100 points is no different.

Williams has shown more and made more of a contest than any of our other tall forwards this season.

Roughead is still developing and not a lot of things at the moment. I thought his hands were ok today.

Shaggy is done and him not being in the side is giving Pearce and Howard game time.

Sherman was dropped for poor play both inside and outside...

I agree with Vesz call... that may have been close to a last chance for him?

Moved where? Who is the better player to fill the gap? We don't have them!

Why not play the three rucks? They all need the development and I'm not sure who the other guns on our list are who'll be getting a game over them and making a 70+ point difference in these games?

Jones has been terrible this year in the seniors. He did the job at Willy the week before and got picked. I don't have a problem with that message to our player group... I do have a problem with this rut Jones is in at senior level though

It helps having something to blame. I'm hurting as much as the rest of you but a spade is a spade. We need to focus our vision on our list and give the coach a chance to shape it and build the side he's been spruiking about. We need a 'refresh' to get the talent in and polish what's worth holding on to. I'm going to stick by the club and keep the faith that in a year or two were going to have a side to be excited about again.

[jeemak]

Vezpremi, Higgins and Giansiracusa to start with. The usual suspects with the usual faults in their game that they have been unable or unwilling to address for years now. Tutt, Howard, Grant, Roughead, Jones and a few other younger players would be on thin ice too. I'd add Markovic and Gilbee to the list but they must be playing their last season of AFL football anyway.

I have very little understanding of why you would want to get rid of Higgins, the only player on our list that has recently looked capable of kicking some goals with exception to Tory Dickson.

I'm not sure what you expect from Tutt and Howard at this point of their careers, and I personally can't see us flicking Roughead considering he's been given a three year deal not five days ago.

Grant played very positively last week, though for some reason he was played behind the ball this week which was a little unfortunate. Jones is completely out of sorts, though putting him on thin ice is a bit over the top.

[GVGjr]

Just go back from the game. Not only are we losing, we are playing a brand of football that is unwatchable.

Obviously some massive concerns in every facet of the game today. Don't know where to begin. Very, very hard to be a Bulldogs supporter today .....


I hear you. We are very bad at the moment and we are getting a belting most week.

[F'scary]

On the contrary... They're unhappy, and up there trying to figure out just what the coach is trying to achieve.

Nah, they're there to show support, to take collective responsibility. After all, they chose him.

[Pickenitup]

We are terrible to Watch it is really going to be a tough last 5 weeks of the Season.
Our Crowds are only going to get worse
We Must make a play for Gumbleton or Aaron Edwards

[ReLoad]

For those who are ambivalent on Howard today, watch the passage of play for 20 seconds before Montagna kicks that great goal from the boundary line at the Footscray end.

I'd say its a monty for Danny Frawley's "Coach killer"

[soupman]

Actually I'm quite confused as to why Johanissen didn't play today? What was the need and point of promoting him early in the week if he wasn't going to play? Unless he was ill late in the week?

Isn't there a deadline for promoting rookies by so you couldn't just promote all your rookies in the second last round for "season ending" injuries. I think it used to be round 15

[bornadog]

It helps having something to blame.

No it doesn't help at all.

Questions are being asked about the game plan and coaching moves and there are no answers.
As I have said in another thread, there is more to coaching than just developing players.


We need a 'refresh' to get the talent in and polish what's worth holding on to. I'm going to stick by the club and keep the faith that in a year or two were going to have a side to be excited about again.

We need a cull not a refresh.

I will always stick with the club and have done so for 50 plus years. The team is basically unwatchable at the moment.

[azabob]

How many goals has he kicked ?

He has kicked three goals, three behinds in three games. Not a bad return considering the delivery and our overall performance. Based on averages alone he is doing better than Jones & Cordy.

He is worth persevering with.

[bornadog]

He has kicked three goals, three behinds in three games. Not a bad return considering the delivery and our overall performance. Based on averages alone he is doing better than Jones & Cordy.

He is worth persevering with.

I guess, I am thinking what do we need more, drive from CHB or a CHF? We just don't have a CHB.

[Remi Moses]

Guess all of us were expecting some pain, but to be honest an "effort" is a non - negotiable that every member expects and deserves and right now the "effort" along with our style is lamentable!!

[Ghost Dog]

That was the worse game we have played all season. And I don't think the Saints brought their best game to the table. It could have been +6 goals easily.

[Redemption97]

No it doesn't help at all.

Questions are being asked about the game plan and coaching moves and there are no answers.
As I have said in another thread, there is more to coaching than just developing players.



We need a cull not a refresh.

I will always stick with the club and have done so for 50 plus years. The team is basically unwatchable at the moment.

I was being smart re: 'refresh' as that is the PR the club has been using. Of course we need a cull!

The game plan might be great but how would we know with that group and the performances this year?

I took no pleasure in watching that either. I hate the saints.... I hate watching us this bad. I hate even more watching our senior players drop their heads and not fighting to the end.

But we are this bad and the only way we're going to get better is good drafting, list management, player development and time.

Hopefully I'm right and in two years I'll be standing next to you in the stands cheering on a great win against the saints, toasting macca with some mid strengths from the stands...

[Twodogs]

I have very little understanding of why you would want to get rid of Higgins, the only player on our list that has recently looked capable of kicking some goals with exception to Tory Dickson.


But how how often does Higgins tease us with a few good weeks of football then return to his old habits of missing easy goals, not chasing and manning up and standing flatfooted while teammates battle for the ball 5 metres away? That's not mentioning the fact his body constantly lets him down with injurys.


I'm not sure what you expect from Tutt and Howard at this point of their careers

More than they are showing at least. I'd like to see Howard take the game on more and kick the ball longer, rather than sideways all the time and I'd like to see Tutt run to contests rather than past them.



and I personally can't see us flicking Roughead considering he's been given a three year deal not five days ago.

That's a good point. I'd forgotten about that.


Grant played very positively last week, though for some reason he was played behind the ball this week which was a little unfortunate

I'm a fan of Grant's ability and I think he's been badly mismanaged, especially by this coach, but he needs to display more concentration at the task in hand. He's another player I'd like to see take the game on and display more confidence in his ability-of which he has plenty.




Jones is completely out of sorts, though putting him on thin ice is a bit over the top.

Maybe he is being asked to do to much and he has shown a bit in the past but his season so far has been pretty ordinary.

[AndrewP6]

Nah, they're there to show support, to take collective responsibility. After all, they chose him.

I read it as they're not happy. To me, if they were, they'd let him do his thing.

[soupman]

* Williams isnot a CHF,


And yet he has shown more as a tall leading forward in tree games than any of our other prospects have, and his kicking to players on the lead has been good. I don't see the downside in having a big, quick key forward who looks dangerous on the lead. Williams has only ever been good in defence, he gets beaten by most good forwards and with Austin, Markovic, Roberts, Talia and lake in defence he doesn't command a spot there.


* Roughead isnot a CHB.

But with Minson as a ruckman for 80%+ of the time Roughead needs to play somewhere, especially when he is on level pegging with Campbell for that second ruck position. Roughead was actually alright today in defence, and showed against Mitch Clark that he can do it. I don't see the issue with making him more than just a ruckman. We all know from previous seasons that having multiple pure ruckmen is not a good idea.


* Gilbee was cooked two years ago,


Not really Mccartney's fault he still has a contract, although I too wouldn't be unhappy to see him back in the VFL. As a side note, I believe we saw the last "Gilbee special" today.



* Shaggy is in the poo because the coach doesn't like him.

Don't disagree with this.



* Sherman isnot an in and under player, yet the coach drops him because he wasn't getting the contested ball.

Another I agree with you on. However you could argue Sherman was dropped because he wasn't getting any ball.



* Vez clearly shouldn't be in the side.

I think Vez has shown bits and pieces at times, and has been well worth giving an opportunity. Giving him these chances has meant that over the last few weeks I have reached the conclusion he isn't going to make it, but at least he will be cut with a cross next to his name and not a question mark. We tried.



* Playing three rucks some week why?

I agree.



* players getting smashed, but not moved

Macca will argue for education. I think this varies on a case by case basis.



* Jones - our forward coach is teaching him what?


Not sold on our forward coaching either. Cordy is another who seems to be receiving poor coaching.



Four games to go, lets give some more young players a go. We are being beaten by 60 plus points so 100 points is no different.

I would like to see us give some more a go so we can at least make a more educated assesment of their standing on our list (Hill and Panos, who are both potentially on the chopping block in particular). JJ is another. I'm not sure it will make us much worse because the only realistic players to be dropped are Cross (injured) and Gilbee.

[jeemak]

But how how often does Higgins tease us with a few good weeks of football then return to his old habits of missing easy goals, not chasing and manning up and standing flatfooted while teammates battle for the ball 5 metres away? That's not mentioning the fact his body constantly lets him down with injurys.

More than they are showing at least. I'd like to see Howard take the game on more and kick the ball longer, rather than sideways all the time and I'd like to see Tutt run to contests rather than past them.

That's a good point. I'd forgotten about that.

I'm a fan of Grant's ability and I think he's been badly mismanaged, especially by this coach, but he needs to display more concentration at the task in hand. He's another player I'd like to see take the game on and display more confidence in his ability-of which he has plenty.

Maybe he is being asked to do to much and he has shown a bit in the past but his season so far has been pretty ordinary.


Appreciate the detail of the response.

Higgins for mine has been more disciplined in the defensive aspects of his game this season, and I think just like every player on our list he still has some areas he needs to improve in. One being to continually work to be in dangerous positions and think how he can influence the next contest from the one he isn't involved in. Sometimes his finishing lets him down, though he's still in the top few players in the club that is likely to create a score when he's near the football. A significan't hindrance to his game is our horrible supply to the forward line, and while his body is a concern I'll happily have him in the side until someone more suited to his role comes along, and the last time I checked there's not really anyone on our list putting their hand up to replace him.

Tutt and Howard have attributes that we need. Agree that Howard should use his leg more productively, though considering we've not a lot up forward to kick to and a shortage of creative midfielders prepared to work in to forward space I can excuse his tendency to kick short and laterally. Tutt is just getting into the early phase of his career, and needs to learn a lot about the game, and how he can influence it consistently. He's still shown more than the draft picks we haven't drafted to this point, and we need to be mindful that if we move him on he might be replaced by somebody that doesn't show anything at all.

Agree with your comments on Grant. He needs to mature if he's going to be a consistent performer, but with the talent that he has he should be persevered with.

Jones just needs to keep working extremely hard. Keep presenting until he is sick in his stomach. He's only going to benefit in the long run if he takes that path, irrespective of the job given to him by the MC.

[F'scary]

I read it as they're not happy. To me, if they were, they'd let him do his thing.

So they're up there trying to figure out where he's going wrong. Interesting. Could be. But I'm sure he'll be there next year but if it's like this year, that will be it. Could take a few with him though.

[Mofra]

Tutt and Howard have attributes that we need. Agree that Howard should use his leg more productively, though considering we've not a lot up forward to kick to and a shortage of creative midfielders prepared to work in to forward space I can excuse his tendency to kick short and laterally. Tutt is just getting into the early phase of his career, and needs to learn a lot about the game, and how he can influence it consistently. He's still shown more than the draft picks we haven't drafted to this point, and we need to be mindful that if we move him on he might be replaced by somebody that doesn't show anything at all.
Tutt has attributes we need and shows flashes, what you'd expect from him at this stage of his career really.

Howard potentially has attributes we need, but sadly he doesn't seem to use his left foot the way he teased us with last year and is ordinary at everything else. I remain firmly unconvinced.

Early call, but I will watch Pearce with interest next season. Seems to play like Easton Wood without the pace - what do we do with him?

[Dancin' Douggy]

For those who are ambivalent on Howard today, watch the passage of play for 20 seconds before Montagna kicks that great goal from the boundary line at the Footscray end.

I'd say its a monty for Danny Frawley's "Coach killer"

I saw it and you're spot on. Just appalling.
Yet to be convinced by this left foot 'howitzer'?!?

[AndrewP6]

So they're up there trying to figure out where he's going wrong. Interesting. Could be. But I'm sure he'll be there next year but if it's like this year, that will be it. Could take a few with him though.

Just my take on it.

[jeemak]

Tutt has attributes we need and shows flashes, what you'd expect from him at this stage of his career really.

Howard potentially has attributes we need, but sadly he doesn't seem to use his left foot the way he teased us with last year and is ordinary at everything else. I remain firmly unconvinced.

Early call, but I will watch Pearce with interest next season. Seems to play like Easton Wood without the pace - what do we do with him?

Well I think we just wait and see with Pearce. Any first year draftee either just aims for solid performances to get his name close to selection, or to play a few games in the ones. He's on track and will benefit from another preseason.

[Mofra]

Well I think we just wait and see with Pearce. Any first year draftee either just aims for solid performances to get his name close to selection, or to play a few games in the ones. He's on track and will benefit from another preseason.
Yep - I think he needs to develop one "better than average" attribute so will be interesting to see what happens pre-season. He may be the type that develops into an excellent play-reader.

[jeemak]

Yep - I think he needs to develop one "better than average" attribute so will be interesting to see what happens pre-season. He may be the type that develops into an excellent play-reader.

Put work into his legs and core and he could become more explosive off the mark. He could also be taught how to defend.

There's plenty of scope for his game to develop.

[Maddog37]

I have no real reason why but I like him a bit too. Seems very honest in his efforts.

[Twodogs]

Appreciate the detail of the response.

No worries. It helps to think these things out.


Higgins for mine has been more disciplined in the defensive aspects of his game this season, and I think just like every player on our list he still has some areas he needs to improve in. One being to continually work to be in dangerous positions and think how he can influence the next contest from the one he isn't involved in. Sometimes his finishing lets him down, though he's still in the top few players in the club that is likely to create a score when he's near the football. A significan't hindrance to his game is our horrible supply to the forward line, and while his body is a concern I'll happily have him in the side until someone more suited to his role comes along, and the last time I checked there's not really anyone on our list putting their hand up to replace him.

For me this is a big problem with a lot of our player's attitude. They seem happy to do just enough to keep their noses in front of the guy after their place in the team. I wish more of them had that Steve Waugh type attitude where it wasnt good enough just to be beating the opposition but you had to be competing with yourself to make sure you were as good as you could be then better it the next time you went out to play.

That's what guys like Higgins should be making their benchmark, not just getting by. And if the delivery from the guy kicking it to you isnt up to scratch then you let him know about it until it is. To me that's what leaders do, it sorts those who can take it from those who cant and means that if you want to stay in the team or on the list then you always have to be improving.

[G-Mo77]

I don't think I've been to the footy and been so disinterested. I'm honestly not disappointed, angry or upset. Expected this and I expect it 5 more times before the season end. Fortunately 3 of those are away and I won't be going.

In more interesting news Talia parked where I usually do. He walked right in front of the car when I was trying to park, was about to have a crack at him and noticed the tie he was wearing. I haven't seen him often so I confirmed through Google while walking to the ground. :o

[AndrewP6]

I don't think I've been to the footy and been so disinterested. I'm honestly not disappointed, angry or upset. Expected this and I expect it 5 more times before the season end.
:o

Me too unfortunately.

[Desipura]

All we will end up being is a development team for free agency until we get a real coach, sorry smorgo you got it wrong again...first Peter Rhodes and now Macca.

You sound like a broken record, we get it you don't rate the coach! Do you think if you state it often enough, that he will get the sack.

[jeemak]

No worries. It helps to think these things out.


For me this is a big problem with a lot of our player's attitude. They seem happy to do just enough to keep their noses in front of the guy after their place in the team. I wish more of them had that Steve Waugh type attitude where it wasnt good enough just to be beating the opposition but you had to be competing with yourself to make sure you were as good as you could be then better it the next time you went out to play.

That's what guys like Higgins should be making their benchmark, not just getting by. And if the delivery from the guy kicking it to you isnt up to scratch then you let him know about it until it is. To me that's what leaders do, it sorts those who can take it from those who cant and means that if you want to stay in the team or on the list then you always have to be improving.

Your last point is one that has concerned me for some time, and it has been an across the board problem for our club. It was evident in 2008 and 2009 when we blew very good chances to demonstrate our competitiveness in qualifying finals only to put in extremely limp and disappointing performances.

Complacency was an issue when we were up the top through our innability to be ruthless and put teams away, and it is now showing with our recent track record in capitulating entirely when the chips are down.

[Twodogs]

I like Pearce. He seems to get under opponent's skin at times leading them to whack him but he doesnt take a backward step when they do. He also seems to be able to read the play pretty well.

[GVGjr]

We need a cull not a refresh.



We should never really need a cull, what we should have had was some slightly greater turnover of players a couple of years back.

[bornadog]

We should never really need a cull, what we should have had was some slightly greater turnover of players a couple of years back.

GVGjr, I know you keep saying that and I can't argue against it. However, what's done is done and we need to have a good hard look at the end of this season and if we need to replace 5, 10, or even 15 players (I know 15 is unrealistic), then so be it. Now is the time to think ahead and do something about it.

How many players do you think we need to turnover? Personally I think somewhere close to ten.

[Eastdog]

We should never really need a cull, what we should have had was some slightly greater turnover of players a couple of years back.

Who do you think should have we delisted a couple of years back.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I like Pearce. He seems to get under opponent's skin at times leading them to whack him but he doesnt take a backward step when they do. He also seems to be able to read the play pretty well.

Pearce is a hard one to judge at the moment. He's arguably the most raw player on our list besides Jong, but he does have some solid intensity to his game. We'll know more in years 2 & 3 when he adds size and learns more about the game.

[Eastdog]

Pearce is a hard one to judge at the moment. He's arguably the most raw player on our list besides Jong, but he does have some solid intensity to his game. We'll know more in years 2 & 3 when he adds size and learns more about the game.

Lin Jong is another kid id like to see get a game to see how he goes at senior level.

[GVGjr]

GVGjr, I know you keep saying that and I can't argue against it. However, what's done is done and we need to have a good hard look at the end of this season and if we need to replace 5, 10, or even 15 players (I know 15 is unrealistic), then so be it. Now is the time to think ahead and do something about it.

How many players do you think we need to turnover? Personally I think somewhere close to ten.

At the moment I think 7 or 8 would be at the top end. It just gets too messy to do the 10 you are suggesting.

[SonofScray]

Your last point is one that has concerned me for some time, and it has been an across the board problem for our club. It was evident in 2008 and 2009 when we blew very good chances to demonstrate our competitiveness in qualifying finals only to put in extremely limp and disappointing performances.

Complacency was an issue when we were up the top through our innability to be ruthless and put teams away, and it is now showing with our recent track record in capitulating entirely when the chips are down.

Great observation. Make no mistake this is one of the biggest hurdles our Club needs to overcome.

[Sedat]

Absolutely damning stat tweeted by Stevo - we have kicked 18 second half goals in the last 6 matches. GWS, who have been getting smashed on average by 20 goals in that time, have kicked 19. As a collective group, we curl up our toes after half time in the most embarrassingly abysmal way.

[G-Mo77]

Absolutely damning stat tweeted by Stevo - we have kicked 18 second half goals in the last 6 matches. GWS, who have been getting smashed on average by 20 goals in that time, have kicked 19. As a collective group, we curl up our toes after half time in the most embarrassingly abysmal way.

I was just reading that as well. It would be really interesting if we had to run up against GC or GWS right now. Would we beat them?

Usually agree with Steveo but one of his tweets said we should go after A. Edwards. :o

[Eastdog]

Absolutely damning stat tweeted by Stevo - we have kicked 18 second half goals in the last 6 matches. GWS, who have been getting smashed on average by 20 goals in that time, have kicked 19. As a collective group, we curl up our toes after half time in the most embarrassingly abysmal way.

I just don't understand it because at half time we were still relatively close to St Kilda. Our fitness must be really not up to scratch as we do not put in a 4 qtr effort.

[bornadog]

At the moment I think 7 or 8 would be at the top end. It just gets too messy to do the 10 you are suggesting.

I would be happy with that, but I wonder if we will be so brave.

[Sedat]

I just don't understand it because at half time we were still relatively close to St Kilda.Saints smashed us in the 2nd qtr but did not put it on the scoreboard. We were cooked about 5 minutes into the 2nd today.

[Eastdog]

Saints smashed us in the 2nd qtr but did not put it on the scoreboard. We were cooked about 5 minutes into the 2nd today.

They also kicked a lot of behinds and they could of beaten by well over 100 if they kicked straight.

[GVGjr]

I would be happy with that, but I wonder if we will be so brave.

Even with our low position and an extra draft pick in the first round to make the last couple of picks count it needs to be a very deep draft and I don't think it's that deep. The rookie upgrades will fill some of the numbers I suspect and thats why I think we are an outside chance to make 8 changes.

We also are very unlikely to trade for any player over the age of 23 so we won't see an some top up players added to the list.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Pearce is a hard one to judge at the moment. He's arguably the most raw player on our list besides Jong, but he does have some solid intensity to his game. We'll know more in years 2 & 3 when he adds size and learns more about the game.

I see a lot of Dylan Addison in Pearce

[Sedat]

I see a lot of Dylan Addison in PearceI reckon Pearce has a better 'frame' to work with and more athletic upside than Addison.

[Ghost Dog]

Did you all see the vision of Daniel Cross, crying because he couldn't play? That's how much he cares about our club. God I hate where we are. I bet the players must too.

[KT31]

Did you all see the vision of Daniel Cross, crying because he couldn't play? That's how much he cares about our club. God I hate where we are. I bet the players must too.

Funny, and I am no way having a go at Crossy, but years ago when it was Hudgeon and The Diver cried, according to our fans they were just sook's.

[Cyberdoggie]

I reckon Pearce has a better 'frame' to work with and more athletic upside than Addison.

Also ( i know we don't see it much at AFL level yet) Pearce is a far more attacking player than Addison.

Perhaps Addison was more this way when he was drafted but over time his role has diminished to just being hard, stopping his man and chipping it sideways.

[Ghost Dog]

Funny, and I am no way having a go at Crossy, but years ago when it was Hudgeon and The Diver cried, according to our fans they were just sook's.

Actually, despite him being a diver, I have respect for Reiwoldt for what he is able to get out of his body. I could not five .05% of what these blokes are able to do.

[KT31]

I am not a big fan of our new coach at this time but I willing for him to show me why I should believe in him. He is a first year coach and will hopefully learn.



With a young side we needed a Coach who would teach not learn.

[SonofScray]

Funny, and I am no way having a go at Crossy, but years ago when it was Hudgeon and The Diver cried, according to our fans they were just sook's.

And still are. Pansies. No respect for either.

[KT31]

Maybe they are there to stab him in the back?

You as a Dog's supporter NO this is not the way Chris Grant does things.

[Max469]

With a young side we needed a Coach who would teach not learn.


And to able to teach you need to learn.

He still has to learn to read the players. Obviously this is not happening because he would be moving players when they are being comprehensively beaten.

I have heard he is an exceptional teacher but we are paying him to coach and our team is the worst I seen for many years.

As I said I am willing to see where he is taking us, but the direction must be forwards and not backwards as it is now.

We have played 18 rounds I think it was reasonable to expect some sort of improvement in our younger players from his teachings in this time.

He might find he will be under a bit of pressure from now until the end of the season and next year the pressure may become too much for him, as it any coach in his position.

[KT31]

With a young side we needed a Coach who would teach not learn.


And to able to teach you need to learn.

He still has to learn to read the players. Obviously this is not happening because he would be moving players when they are being comprehensively beaten.

I have heard he is an exceptional teacher but we are paying him to coach and our team is the worst I seen for many years.

As I said I am willing to see where he is taking us, but the direction must be forwards and not backwards as it is now.

We have played 18 rounds I think it was reasonable to expect some sort of improvement in our younger players from his teachings in this time.

He might find he will be under a bit of pressure from now until the end of the season and next year the pressure may become too much for him, as it any coach in his position.

A student learns, a teacher teaches.
Yes coaching is a continuous learning curve, but you must have something to teach in the beginning.
Let's put the philosophical crap away for a minute, all I have learnt in the last few weeks is we seem to have no game plan and don't come out after half time.

[Mantis]

Absolutely damning stat tweeted by Stevo - we have kicked 18 second half goals in the last 6 matches. GWS, who have been getting smashed on average by 20 goals in that time, have kicked 19. As a collective group, we curl up our toes after half time in the most embarrassingly abysmal way.

This stat says a fair bit about our fitness.

We just lack the running power to keep going after 1/2 time... I know the coach wants us to get bigger & stronger, but we also need to be able to run out games.

[Grantysghost]

This stat says a fair bit about our fitness.

We just lack the running power to keep going after 1/2 time... I know the coach wants us to get bigger & stronger, but we also need to be able to run out games.

Interesting. He and Bomber took that ethos to Essendon and have a look at how well they're going fitness wise. Sometimes you need to mould the game plan to the players you have and not go for an off the shelf approach that may not fit your list. Sacrificing entertaining footy in the short term for the ultimate goal is a big risk to take. If playing attractive footy keeps the members interested then maybe the planets can align and we can snatch one with the right balance (attack/defence). Playing this way just drives people away and gives them nothing. I'd rather get the offense right, keep the members around and interested (maybe sign up some more) then work on the defense. Maybe we're doing it backwards.

[Mantis]

Interesting. He and Bomber took that ethos to Essendon and have a look at how well they're going fitness wise. Sometimes you need to mould the game plan to the players you have and not go for an off the shelf approach that may not fit your list. Sacrificing entertaining footy in the short term for the ultimate goal is a big risk to take. If playing attractive footy keeps the members interested then maybe the planets can align and we can snatch one with the right balance (attack/defence). Playing this way just drives people away and gives them nothing. I'd rather get the offense right, keep the members around and interested (maybe sign up some more) then work on the defense. Maybe we're doing it backwards.

Eade went down this path and almost got us to the big dance. It will be interesting to see if Macca's strategy works, but in the meantime it's shit boring to watch.

Interesting on the first point too.... Everyone was saying how big & strong Essendon looked early on, but they look to have run out of gas and are getting a heap of soft tissue injuries to boot.

[Ghost Dog]

This stat says a fair bit about our fitness.

We just lack the running power to keep going after 1/2 time... I know the coach wants us to get bigger & stronger, but we also need to be able to run out games.

Says a lot about the number of preseasons we've had collectively.

[Hot_Doggies]

Interesting. He and Bomber took that ethos to Essendon and have a look at how well they're going fitness wise. Sometimes you need to mould the game plan to the players you have and not go for an off the shelf approach that may not fit your list. Sacrificing entertaining footy in the short term for the ultimate goal is a big risk to take. If playing attractive footy keeps the members interested then maybe the planets can align and we can snatch one with the right balance (attack/defence). Playing this way just drives people away and gives them nothing. I'd rather get the offense right, keep the members around and interested (maybe sign up some more) then work on the defense. Maybe we're doing it backwards.

The fickle fans will return in a few years when we improve. Frightening how fast fans(many on here also) lose sight of the big picture. This is the first year of a 3-5yr rebuild, you can expect many more floggings, youngsters to stagnate, old guys to fall away fast etc.

[LostDoggy]

You as a Dog's supporter NO this is not the way Chris Grant does things.

:) thinking more about the other guy