Match Committee- Round 19 vs North Melbourne

[Greystache]

If you were on the match committee what changes would you make for the game against North Melbourne next Saturday at Etihad?

As always a brief explanation for your changes would be good

[Greystache]

It'll be interesting to see what changes we make

[Mantis]

It'll be interesting to see what changes we make

Extremely hard to predict too going on recent times.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Would Talia be a chance on the back of a good performance yesterday, or not yet ready?

[Rance Fan]

Could he be any worse than what we have out there?

For me older players out, rest or retire them for next year
Young players in, learn the hard way

[GVGjr]

Would Talia be a chance on the back of a good performance yesterday, or not yet ready?

The coach is indicating that he will play before the end of the season.

[LostDoggy]

The coach.

[Mantis]

For me older players out, rest or retire them for next year
Young players in, learn the hard way

What are they going to learn?

[LostDoggy]

Why change I think this has been one big problem, an unsettled side, I would prefer very minimal changes need to build a team within the team.

[Rance Fan]

What are they going to learn?

Learn what its like to play at AFL level not VFL level.
May inspire them to get bigger faster stronger over the preseason.
Give them a taste for it
Bit of reward ?

Dahl got the chance and has gone on with it for example

[jazzadogs]

The coach.
Not really needed Savage, you've made your feelings known.

Cross will be out, Sherman and Addison were BOG in the VFL.

Would be happy to see Talia or Fletcher have a run. JJ seems like he is on the cusp, would be a bit rough if he doesn't get a call-up considering they didn't give him any game time this weekend.

[bornadog]

Not really needed Savage, you've made your feelings known.

Pretty sure it was a joke if you read the post before, " The coach is indicating he will play"

Changes:

Out: Cross, Vez,

In: JJ, Talia

[Mantis]

Learn what its like to play at AFL level not VFL level.
May inspire them to get bigger faster stronger over the preseason.
Give them a taste for it
Bit of reward?

Dahl got the chance and has gone on with it for example

For what?

Dahlhaus forced his way in with very good performances last year... None of our kids not playing are doing the same.

[jazzadogs]

Pretty sure it was a joke if you read the post before, " The coach is indicating he will play"

Changes:

Out: Cross, Vez,

In: JJ, Talia
I strongly doubt that was the thinking behind it, considering every one of Savage's posts have been related to the ineptitude of our coach.

[SlimPickens]

My changes

In: JJ, Roberts, Addison

Out: Cross- Inj
Gilbee- No point in playing Lindsay and really isnt offering us much.
Howard- Rest

Keep persevering with the kids.

[Ghost Dog]

In: Roberts, JJ
Out: Vezpremi, Grant

[GVGjr]

My changes

In: JJ, Roberts, Addison

Out: Cross- Inj
Gilbee- No point in playing Lindsay and really isnt offering us much.
Howard- Rest

Keep persevering with the kids.

Why not stick with Howard then?

[bornadog]

Pretty sure it was a joke if you read the post before, " The coach is indicating he will play"

Changes:

Out: Cross, Vez,

In: JJ, Talia


My changes

Out: Gilbee- No point in playing Lindsay and really isnt offering us much.


Agree on Gilbee, really his best days are over. I bring in Sherman.

[SlimPickens]

Why not stick with Howard then?

His lethargy today really showed through with some of his efforts, hence the rest.

[jeemak]

In - JJ, Sherman and Addison

Out - Cross, Pearce and Gilbee

Gilbs has been a solid servant to the club, though I can't see a great deal of benefit in playing him moving forward.

Pearce needs to go back to Willi and work really hard to sure up his ball use under pressure and run until he's at the point of vomitting.

I think JJ should be given a chance to ply his trade at the top level. Sherman needs to be given a few games to play for his career and Addison is one of our only players that doesn't seem to drop his head.

It was disappointing to review some of the stats and make the realisation that Griffen, Murphy and Gilbee did not register a single tackle all day. In the modern game, this is just unnacceptable. Especially from players who are supposed to be leaders.

For the remaining four games I want to see all of our experienced players put effort in as if their careers depended on it. It is blindingly obvious to me that our younger players are playing without confidence, and in situations like the one our club is facing now they need to draw inspiration from experienced heads that lead from the front, especially in the not so glamourous areas of the game such as protecting your team mates and wearing down the opposition with tackling pressure.

[jeemak]

In: Roberts, JJ
Out: Vezpremi, Grant

Why Grant?

He was played out of position today from what I saw, which was a little strange on the back of playing a good game last week up forward.

[GVGjr]

His lethargy today really showed through with some of his effort, hence the rest.

But he is a youngster who has bounced back from poor games. I just think we have to stick with him for the balance of the season because as he enters his 4th season in 2013 we need to invest as much game time as we can for him. Too many guys will be cycle through in the next 2 seasons and Howard needs his chances now.

[bornadog]

Why Grant?

He was played out of position today from what I saw, which was a little strange on the back of playing a good game last week up forward.

I thought he beat his opponent today, but do prefer him up forward.

[Hotdog60]

I'm starting to sound like a broken record and my apologies.

In Panos, Hill, Roberts (for Cross)

Out Cross (if Inj), Jones, Vespremi.

Jones I thought would have had better application after being dropped but the effort on the half forward line by not following his man which resulted in a goal was poor.

Vespa just seemed to bomb it out and make it someones else's problem and have the ball come right back.

William go back to Half Back and let these dedicated forwards have a chance to see what they have got. If we don't have some sort of improvement on the forward line from them you could stamp their cards and get on with finding some other forwards.

I know these guys having been knocking the door down back neither have the guys in the AFL.

[Rance Fan]

For what?

Dahlhaus forced his way in with very good performances last year... None of our kids not playing are doing the same.


So we dont bother, just stick with the same crap we have out in the park?

Ok ideally they may not deserve it, but a lot of the guys in the 1st dont deserve to be their either. Mix it up bring in the younger guys, it may help them improve going forward.

By playing the older guys all we are doing is flogging them or they have simply past it.

Time to look to the FUTURE...sooner the better!

[Mantis]

It was disappointing to review some of the stats and make the realisation that Griffen, Murphy and Gilbee did not register a single tackle all day. In the modern game, this is just unnacceptable. Especially from players who are supposed to be leaders.



So Murphy didn't perform well on Milne?

One of 2 players that beat his man for the day.

[Maddog37]

JJ, Sherm, Addison in.

Cross, Vez, Gilbee out.


Maybe Jones for someone like Tom C or even Talia or Roberts and play Lake forward for some fun. Yes I know Petrie would kill them but I am bored with watching the same crap each week.

[jeemak]

So Murphy didn't perform well on Milne?

One of 2 players that beat his man for the day.

I agree that he beat Milne, and under very trying circumstances as well. I do however think that in the modern game tackling and harrassing must be a team effort, performed by all players irrespective of their weekly task.

[Maddog37]

Playing Murphy on Milne we win the battle but lose the war. Milne was quiet but we lost Murphs run and carry which is critical.

[Greystache]

In- JJ, Sherman, Addison, Roberts

Out- Cross, Gilbee , Vez, Howard

JJ deserves a chance, Sherman and Addison should be rewarded for good VFL form, and Roberts should get a taste but am happy to play Talia instead.

Cross injured. Gilbee cooked. Vez isn't up to it in defence and it looks unlikely we give him an extended run forward. Howard just completely uncompetitive.

[chef]

Agree on Gilbee, really his best days are over. I bring in Sherman.

Might get some time off for his hit on Fisher.

[Mofra]

Always tough after a loss:

In: Sherman, Addison, Talia, JJ
Out: Cross (inj.) Gilbee (susp.) Jones, Vez

Gia to play as gut-runner to replace Cross, Sherman forward, Addison replaces Gilbee in the back half, Roughy to go forward to cover Jones the play 2nd ruck and we play Williams as the sole tall forward at times (given our smalls kick our goals anyway).
JJ to play back and try and give us some rebound run.

[jeemak]

Always tough after a loss:

In: Sherman, Addison, Talia, JJ
Out: Cross (inj.) Gilbee (susp.) Jones, Vez

Gia to play as gut-runner to replace Cross, Sherman forward, Addison replaces Gilbee in the back half, Roughy to go forward to cover Jones the play 2nd ruck and we play Williams as the sole tall forward at times (given our smalls kick our goals anyway).
JJ to play back and try and give us some rebound run.

Good suggestion. Gia is a very good ball user in traffic, and creative but safe with hand and foot. We really need someone like him between the 50's.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We need to blood JJ & Roberts/Talia for the remainder of the season.

Broken record, but Panos (or even Hill) could not do any worse than Cordy and Jones at present. Plus, it'd give us some clarification, but it seems certain we'll delist both at year's end.

[LostDoggy]

Jones was poor but what's the point dropping him after 1 week? Say it a 100 times no forward could prosper under the current game style.
We have 4/5 tall forwards and he is the one with the most talent.

[Sedat]

Playing Murphy on Milne we win the battle but lose the war. Milne was quiet but we lost Murphs run and carry which is critical.It went into St Kilda's forward line 55 times for 39 scoring shots, which is an unbelievable conversion of scores for inside 50's. Despite this, Bob's opponent only got a 'joe the goose' in the last minute of the game - Bob was exceptional today against a player in terrific form.

I'd like to see JJ and one of Roberts or Talia come in this week. What's the point of dropping Jones or Roughy after one game in the seniors. Even Vesz, who was horrid today, deserves at least another week or two to see if he has any future at our club. Probably give Pearce a spell and Crossy will likely miss with injury.

[jeemak]

It went into St Kilda's forward line 55 times for 39 scoring shots, which is an unbelievable conversion of scores for inside 50's. Despite this, Bob's opponent only got a 'joe the goose' in the last minute of the game - Bob was exceptional today against a player in terrific form.

I'd like to see JJ and one of Roberts or Talia come in this week. What's the point of dropping Jones or Roughy after one game in the seniors. Even Vesz, who was horrid today, deserves at least another week or two to see if he has any future at our club. Probably give Pearce a spell and Crossy will likely miss with injury.

I'm concerned Crossy is going to need a shoulder reconstruction after today.

Agree with you on Vesz. Today was a terrible day to be playing in our defense, especially if you're still learning the defensive trade. I think irrespective of the horridness some players have shown over the last month or two that we sometimes forget the pressure they are under on a weekly basis.

[G-Mo77]

It went into St Kilda's forward line 55 times for 39 scoring shots, which is an unbelievable conversion of scores for inside 50's. Despite this, Bob's opponent only got a 'joe the goose' in the last minute of the game

Kicked it as hard as he could into the Bulldog fans behind the goals as well. Would love to see this little toe rag head but someones elbow.

[KT31]

Why change I think this has been one big problem, an unsettled side, I would prefer very minimal changes need to build a team within the team.

I agree, I've been a bit unsettled since half time today.:(:mad::eek:

[KT31]

Kicked it as hard as he could into the Bulldog fans behind the goals as well. Would love to see this little toe rag head but someones elbow.

To kind for what the little ferret deserves.

[bornadog]

I'm concerned Crossy is going to need a shoulder reconstruction after today.

Agree with you on Vesz. Today was a terrible day to be playing in our defense, especially if you're still learning the defensive trade. I think irrespective of the horridness some players have shown over the last month or two that we sometimes forget the pressure they are under on a weekly basis.

Cross on 197 games.

[Sedat]

Jones was poor but what's the point dropping him after 1 week? Say it a 100 times no forward could prosper under the current game style.Apart from key forward in our senior team, the only worse job going around is the head of the Bulldogs membership dept.

[jeemak]

Cross on 197 games.

Horrible isn't it.

Knowing him though he's likely to consult Buddhist Monks over the next week or so to learn how to disqualify pain from his existence. He'll become an expert in their ways and play out the last four games of the year.

[Ghost Dog]

Why Grant?

He was played out of position today from what I saw, which was a little strange on the back of playing a good game last week up forward.

He's not that tall, skinny, not aggressive enough. So skinny he can be pushed off the ball with ease. Has a bit of flair, but Bmac keeps going on about how he intent on picking the most fierce competitors. The word fierce does not even slightly apply to him. It may change, but just needs more gym time.

We can get what he brings to our list down back with half a dozen other players. Austin, Pearce, Roberts.

If you were an opposition coach, wuld you not be licking your lips at the prospect of him playing down back?
A good sub or a good pair with a tall forward in the Garlett mode ( carlton ).

[jeemak]

He's not that tall, skinny, not aggressive enough. So skinny he can be pushed off the ball with ease. Has a bit of flair, but Bmac keeps going on about how he intent on picking the most fierce competitors. The word fierce does not even slightly apply to him. It may change, but just needs more gym time.

We can get what he brings to our list down back with half a dozen other players. Austin, Pearce, Roberts.

If you were an opposition coach, wuld you not be licking your lips at the prospect of him playing down back?
A good sub or a good pair with a tall forward in the Garlett mode ( carlton ).

So, he played a good game last week up forward kicking a couple of goals and putting together 18 touches which included very effective hands and a couple of chase downs. All this after a long stint off ther field followed by some time at Willi.

He then got thrown out of his comfort zone and put in the backline, where he tried his guts out and defended quite well, albeit with a couple of lapses.

To answer your question, no. Opposition coaches wouldn't be to fearful of Grant playing in defense right now, because really, he's a novice in that area. Though, what they would be mindful of is the fact he applied himself to his task well, and they would know he's a player with the capacity to improve in that area.

He is skinny, though he's still six foot four inches tall and he can chase and tackle as well as anyone else when he applies himself.

Today's game for Grant wasn't one that deserved to be cut to pieces. In a team that was getting comprehensively smashed across the entire ground he was one of few that worked through the game and can keep his head up.

I'd prefer he was played forward today, but he wasn't. Having said that, he didn't capitulate at the same level a lot of other players did across all four quarters.

[Sedat]

So, he played a good game last week up forward kicking a couple of goals and putting together 18 touches which included very effective hands and a couple of chase downs. All this after a long stint off ther field followed by some time at Willi.

He then got thrown out of his comfort zone and put in the backline, where he tried his guts out and defended quite well, albeit with a couple of lapses.

To answer your question, no. Opposition coaches wouldn't be to fearful of Grant playing in defense right now, because really, he's a novice in that area. Though, what they would be mindful of is the fact he applied himself to his task well, and they would know he's a player with the capacity to improve in that area.

He is skinny, though he's still six foot four inches tall and he can chase and tackle as well as anyone else when he applies himself.

Today's game for Grant wasn't one that deserved to be cut to pieces. In a team that was getting comprehensively smashed across the entire ground he was one of few that worked through the game and can keep his head up.

I'd prefer he was played forward today, but he wasn't. Having said that, he didn't capitulate at the same level a lot of other players did across all four quarters.
In a dirty, grim, dark day for the club, I thought Grant was one of the few positives to come out of the carnage. He was our 5th best player for mine and at least showed an aptitude to both attack and defend when required. His spoiling in particular was a highlight. And apart from Bob, god knows our defence needs a little creativity and flair bringing it out because the sideways chip kicking gameplan is working beautifully out of defence at the moment :rolleyes:

I'm not too worried about his physique - Michael Tuck was wiry but had good core strength and Grant could develop in the same way. I didn't see him brushed off the ball too many times today. Learning the running patterns of opposition forwards can only help his development as a future forward for us as well.

[FrediKanoute]

In: Roberts, JJ
Out: Vezpremi, Grant

I thought Grant was ok today. He looked ok down back and went when it was his turn.

Out: Cross (inj); and
Jones - he is shot, leave him at Willi to get confidence for the rest of the year;

In: Panos - we need to see whether he is up to AFL std; and
Sherman/Addison/DJ

[chef]

No way Grants going to dropped, one of the few positives yesterday. Like to see them leave him down back for the rest of the year.

[westbulldog]

Anyone who is not going to give us any improvement in 2013 should no longer be selected so the hard decisions should not be delayed.

[Twodogs]

Might get some time off for his hit on Fisher.


Yeah I think Gilbee might be in trouble too.

[bornadog]

Cooney, Wood and Markovic all facing a fitness test and could be available for this week.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Cooney, Wood and Markovic all facing a fitness test and could be available for this week.
Given the current crop you would be tempted to rush all three back. It wouldn't be hard to find three to replace. We couldn't do any worse.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

It went into St Kilda's forward line 55 times for 39 scoring shots, which is an unbelievable conversion of scores for inside 50's. Despite this, Bob's opponent only got a 'joe the goose' in the last minute of the game - Bob was exceptional today against a player in terrific form.

I'd like to see JJ and one of Roberts or Talia come in this week. What's the point of dropping Jones or Roughy after one game in the seniors. Even Vesz, who was horrid today, deserves at least another week or two to see if he has any future at our club. Probably give Pearce a spell and Crossy will likely miss with injury.

Jones has been terrible all year in the seniors whilst Roughead has been disappointing.
Veszpremi doesn't look a senior player to me nor does Pearce at this stage. I would be tempted to play Hill as a key forward, simply to try something different. Campbell showed enough in the ruck when Minson was out a few weeks back to suggest he could be our best second string ruckman capable of taking a mark up forward.
Addison needs to be recalled to give Murphy more freedom from the last line of defence, where we have missed his attacking style further afield.

[Dry Rot]

Re positional changes, I'd like to see Boyd given back his old tagging role (with firm clear instructions), Griff to HBF to give us drive like his early days, Picken played as a forward, Jones to CHB "for some education" and to help out against North's talls, ditto one of Talia or Roberts to the backline, Roughead to be played forward or in the ruck, give Hill a go up forward and JJ a go down back.

So in Talia/Roberts, Hill, JJ, Sherman.

Out Cross (inj.) Gilbee (susp.), Vez, one of Pearce or Howard

[KT31]

Surely JJ will play this week, otherwise what was the point of promoting him ?

[bornadog]

Link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143134/default.aspx)

Elevated rookie Jason Johannisen - a pacey defender/midfielder who was an emergency last week - appears likely to make his AFL debut against North Melbourne on Saturday. Justin Sherman and Dylan Addison will be in consideration after kicking five of Williamstown's seven goals in a hard-fought win over Port Melbourne in the VFL Grand Final rematch. First-year draftee Michael Talia continues to impress in defence, while veteran Ryan Hargrave, ruckman Tom Campbell and forwards Zephaniah Skinner and Ayce Cordy will also come under consideration. Adam Cooney and defenders Easton Wood and Lukas Markovic face fitness tests.

[LostDoggy]

If you were an opposition coach, wuld you not be licking your lips at the prospect of him playing down back?
A good sub or a good pair with a tall forward in the Garlett mode ( carlton ).

I only care if the opposition coach is worried about him in 2 to 3 years. If this helps him develop I'm totally cool with the concept.

[G-Mo77]

There could be some interesting selections this week. Cooney, Marko and Wood are all possibilities pending fitness tests, Sherman and Addison will be in line for selection as well after some good VFL form and Shaggy and Cordy will be in the mix. Some smokeys in Talia and Roberts and JJ would be a certainty one would think.

Cross is the obvious out. Macca seemed pretty upset with a few of our younger players so some of them may fall. Jones? Vez? Howard?

I'll take a punt at it though and see how close I get.

Out: Cross, Vez, Howard
In: Addison, JJ, Sherman

[bulldogsman]

Official team

In Addison, Sherman, Skinner, JJ, Campbell
Outs Cross, Gilbee, Jones, Vez, Dahlhaus

Congrats to JJ

[LostDoggy]

Skinner will make the difference.
3 rucks thats bound to work soon.
We started tanking with Dahl out and Skinner in?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Disappointed to see Skinner in, would have much preferred Roberts

[G-Mo77]

Dahlhaus injured knee Chops.

[chef]

Disappointed to see Skinner in, would have much preferred Roberts

Me too.

Playing three rucks again:confused:

[LostDoggy]

Disappointed to see Skinner in, would have much preferred Roberts
or Panos or Talia.
Come on, we are developing. Skinner might fluke another goal with his one kick for the game.
We are also developing playing 3 rucks in anticipation of the rule change back to 4 interchange. It worked then so well.

[LostDoggy]

Dahlhaus injured knee Chops.

Fair enough sorry

[Remi Moses]

Three rucks? Don't get it.Skinner and Sherman need decent games .

[Remi Moses]

or Panos or Talia.
Come on, we are developing. Skinner might fluke another goal with his one kick for the game.
We are also developing playing 3 rucks in anticipation of the rule change back to 4 interchange. It worked then so well.

Like to see Tallia or Roberts and Panos get a run .Not sure if the Roughy at CHB is going to work.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't mind Skinner being in, but he should take Campbell's spot.

That would leave Roberts (or Talia) to debut -- perfect opportunity given North's height (and youth in Tarrant/Hansen).

At least JJ will get a run.

[Eastdog]

Good to see Skinner and JJ get selected. Definitely before the season is out would like to see Panos, Tahila and Roberts get a game. How far is Lin Jong from debuting for those who have watched Willy this year.

[soupman]

Skinner better be starting. I'm sick of having to make assesments off a quarter when the game is already over. Let him start and if he's unfit he's the prime candidate to be subbed off.

[westdog54]

Like to see Tallia or Roberts and Panos get a run .Not sure if the Roughy at CHB is going to work.

I have this sick feeling in my stomach that he might get assigned Petrie as a learning exercise...

[Eastdog]

I have this sick feeling in my stomach that he might get assigned Petrie as a learning exercise...

It will be a tough day for him as Petrie is in great form. Who would you rather put on?

[bornadog]

Good to see Skinner and JJ get selected. Definitely before the season is out would like to see Panos, Tahila and Roberts get a game. How far is Lin Jong from debuting for those who have watched Willy this year.

Go to the thread on the last Willi game for an assessment

[Rance Fan]

Liam Jones in the back half vs Drew Petrie, I would of went with.
He may of learnt a thing or two.
In one week out the next, Im not sure builds confidence. Admittedly he has been poor.
Hope he pushes hard and has a big off season!
Best of luck JJ!

[LostDoggy]

I am hoping to see Zeph start, we need a full game from him to see if he has what it takes, will be interesting to see how J J goes too.

[azabob]

Still no Hargrave - shame he doesn't appear to be in the plans.

[jeemak]

Still no Hargrave - shame he doesn't appear to be in the plans.

I think his continuing ommission is an affirmation of the development stance being taken, and it seems the writing is on the wall for him unfortunately.

On the one hand he's certainly going to assist us in being competitive in games, though we're not going to go forward with him. Same with Gilbee.

I'm disappointed they've ommitted Veszpremi. Perhaps he's not working hard enough, or perhaps he's not seen as somebody that will be able to contribute going forwards. I feel he's been limited by where he's played and the fact he's been under enormous pressure as a developing backman. It would be a bloody hard job trying to gain confidence in defense in our side right now, which is why I also feel for Howard's predicament.

Great to see JJ getting a run, and Sherman being given an opportunity to play for his career. It will be interesting to see how they both go over the coming weeks.

[bornadog]

I'm disappointed they've ommitted Veszpremi. Perhaps he's not working hard enough, or perhaps he's not seen as somebody that will be able to contribute going forwards. .

Perhaps he isn't good enough;)

[The Pie Man]

Wouldn't have played Skinner or Campbell, though with the ins we have one of Howard or Smith should be the sub.

Assuming it's one of JJ or Skinner though

[soupman]

I'm disappointed they've ommitted Veszpremi. Perhaps he's not working hard enough, or perhaps he's not seen as somebody that will be able to contribute going forwards. I feel he's been limited by where he's played and the fact he's been under enormous pressure as a developing backman. It would be a bloody hard job trying to gain confidence in defense in our side right now, which is why I also feel for Howard's predicament.


I've come to the conclusion that he isn't going to make it, and maybe the coaches have to.

He has talent, and I was on his side for much of this year, but watching him these last few weeks I just can't see it anymore.

[bornadog]

Wouldn't have played Skinner or Campbell, though with the ins we have one of Howard or Smith should be the sub.

Assuming it's one of JJ or Skinner though

You would think JJ will be the sub.

[LostDoggy]

I've come to the conclusion that he isn't going to make it, and maybe the coaches have to.

He has talent, and I was on his side for much of this year, but watching him these last few weeks I just can't see it anymore.

He probably won't make but if we are just watching the past few weeks then there 5 or 6 that won't make it.
His cards may be marked but it's really difficult to judge most players under the current style. The plot has officially been lost.
Someone please explain the reasoning behind this 3 ruck strategy?
How is it developing and how are we going forward with it?
I light of this and puzzling decision like promoting Panos but not trying him, I fear that the wrong decisions are going to be made regarding delistings and retirements.

[The Pie Man]

You would think JJ will be the sub.

He's a good chance I admit - which to me doesn't make sense given he was rested last week. He should be good to go for at least 3 quarters.

If Skinner plays his 4th game as the sub again, that will go down as one of the dumber player management decisions in my time following footy. There is zero point playing Skinner if he's going to be the sub again.

I really hope it's Howard.

[Maddog37]

Vez is just not fit enough. He is like Pebbles Rocca without the size and marking ability.

I would consider delisting and putting him on the rookie list and see how hungry he really is. Tough love.

[whythelongface]

Good to see JJ make his debut. Looks like Campbell will play forward and share rucking duties with Minson.

Will they persist with Williams up forward and play Roughead down back? Have thought that Williams has been pretty decent as a lead up forward. Still obviously lacking in fitness and when the ball is bombed in long looks a bit lost. Mind you the service from the midfield is pretty ordinary.

As someone has alluded to already, Sherman must surely be playing for his spot on the team. He needs to play an outside role and use his pace to take the game on.

Has Gilbee been omitted or is he injured/ suspended?

[The Pie Man]

Good to see JJ make his debut. Looks like Campbell will play forward and share rucking duties with Minson.

Will they persist with Williams up forward and play Roughead down back? Have thought that Williams has been pretty decent as a lead up forward. Still obviously lacking in fitness and when the ball is bombed in long looks a bit lost. Mind you the service from the midfield is pretty ordinary.

As someone has alluded to already, Sherman must surely be playing for his spot on the team. He needs to play an outside role and use his pace to take the game on.

Has Gilbee been omitted or is he injured/ suspended?

Shannon Grant mentioned in the team announcement that both Gilbee & Dahl had pulled up 'sore' from last week. Jones & Ves definitely ommitted.

Agree that Roughy will likely play back, with Campbell at FF sharing ruck. Not a massive fan of this really.

[LostDoggy]

Is Jones coming in and out doing him any good?
I feel he would be better just to stay in the foward line and learn...Is he injured?

[Maddog37]

Is Jones coming in and out doing him any good?
I feel he would be better just to stay in the foward line and learn...Is he injured?

In an ideal world I would agree Savage but he flat out stopped trying last week I thought.

[G-Mo77]

In an ideal world I would agree Savage but he flat out stopped trying last week I thought.

Agree with that. I'm a pretty big fan of Jones as well and have no problem with his omission. Macca was pretty upset with "some" of the young guys last week, fair chance Jones was one of the ones he was referring to in the press conference.

[Maddog37]

Hopefully it is a valuable lesson for him. I saw him complaining to the umps quite a bit too which to be fair was not surprising considering the Saints tactics but still, he needs to be better than that.

[G-Mo77]

Hopefully it is a valuable lesson for him. I saw him complaining to the umps quite a bit too which to be fair was not surprising considering the Saints tactics but still, he needs to be better than that.

It's disappointing. I really liked the forward spine last week and thought it would have worked well with Grant up there with them. That didn't happen unfortunately. :(

We really need another forward in there who can make their opponent accountable, until then Jones is going to be double and triple teamed.

[LostDoggy]

Jones is being stuffed around by a coach with no idea how to use him.
Treacle slow poor delivery then a novice in his place.
In one week out the next.
No wonder he has no confidence and gives up.

[Eastdog]

When teams chop and change the team week in, week out it correlates to a team not doing too well but it's more about I think the quality of our list that's giving us this poor season.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Jones is being stuffed around by a coach with no idea how to use him.
Treacle slow poor delivery then a novice in his place.
In one week out the next.
No wonder he has no confidence and gives up.

Even though Jones should probably have been played more, he's been our worst performed player on the list.

[Eastdog]

Even though Jones should probably have been played more, he's been our worst performed player on the list.

Confidence with Jones is low and it doesn't help with the woeful delivery into our forward line. What would be the best way to deal with him because I think he can become a good player for us even though the signs are non existent at the moment.

[LostDoggy]

Even though Jones should probably have been played more, he's been our worst performed player on the list.

Worst? Just looking at the tall forwards Skinner is easily worse but has got a game. Cordy is no better but because it's his first full year. Campbell hasn't should anything more. Williams is an experiment with results you expect from an 80 gamer.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Confidence with Jones is low and it doesn't help with the woeful delivery into our forward line. What would be the best way to deal with him because I think he can become a good player for us even though the signs are non existent at the moment.

Delivery is poor but it does not excuse his efforts. He has been absolutely dreadful this season.

A few months ago, GVGjr and others suggested he play at CHB. It's something we probably should have tried, so that he gets something out of the season. It looks like being a complete write off at this stage.

Jones still has the potential to be a good player, but he has a very, very long way to go.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Worst? Just looking at the tall forwards Skinner is easily worse but has got a game. Cordy is no better but because it's his first full year. Campbell hasn't should anything more. Williams is an experiment with results you expect from an 80 gamer.

I wouldn't exactly say Jones has out-performed Skinner. That's how bad he's been.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't exactly say Jones has out-performed Skinner. That's how bad he's been.

Worse than 2 games 5 kicks 3 hbs 0 marks and 2 fluke goals?
Even at Vfl level Jones has played well and promoted on performances whereas I can't say the same for Zeph.

[Eastdog]

Delivery is poor but it does not excuse his efforts. He has been absolutely dreadful this season.

A few months ago, GVGjr and others suggested he play at CHB. It's something we probably should have tried, so that he gets something out of the season. It looks like being a complete write off at this stage.

Jones still has the potential to be a good player, but he has a very, very long way to go.

Age is on his side as well so that's a positive. Hopefully in the draft we get a really great KPF but that's easier said than done.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Worse than 2 games 5 kicks 3 hbs 0 marks and 2 fluke goals?
Even at Vfl level Jones has played well and promoted on performances whereas I can't say the same for Zeph.

The fact that you are even comparing Jones to Skinner is evidence to the fact that he's been beyond poor.

I don't think Jones has even had 1 good AFL game this season.

[LostDoggy]

The fact that you are even comparing Jones to Skinner is evidence to the fact that he's been beyond poor.

I don't think Jones has even had 1 good AFL game this season.
That's as many as Skinner.
Just disputing that he was our worst performed on the list as you said.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

That's as many as Skinner.
Just disputing that he was our worst performed on the list as you said.

You could throw a blanket over the two of them, so I am not sure you're proving anything?

Whilst you may try to find every possible way to criticise the coaching group, even you cannot excuse Jones and his output in 2012.

[Bulldog Joe]

The fact that you are even comparing Jones to Skinner is evidence to the fact that he's been beyond poor.

I don't think Jones has even had 1 good AFL game this season.

I recall Jones played pretty well against Geelong.

[LostDoggy]

You could throw a blanket over the two of them, so I am not sure you're proving anything?

Whilst you may try to find every possible way to criticise the coaching group, even you cannot excuse Jones and his output in 2012.
He has been as poor as most of our forwards have been poor. He more has been most disappointing because he was suppose to shoulder the load.
I dont appcept that it's all his fault, as mentioned delivery, game style, the cycle of promotion then demotion and others playing in his place must be noted.
Whose fault is that ?

[Remi Moses]

Liam Jones doesn't work hard enough.
He's not fit enough and Neither is Veszpremi.
Veszpremi always looks spent and he'll be gone by years end IMO.

[Remi Moses]

You could throw a blanket over the two of them, so I am not sure you're proving anything?

Whilst you may try to find every possible way to criticise the coaching group, even you cannot excuse Jones and his output in 2012.

I'll bet he won't have the Balls to get in here and utter the words "I Was Wrong" in a few years time!

[LostDoggy]

I'll bet he won't have the Balls to get in here and utter the words "I Was Wrong" in a few years time!

If we win a premiership under McCarthy I'll do that and more. Pigs fly too

[Remi Moses]

If we win a premiership under McCarthy I'll do that and more. Pig fly too

Every post is about the coach. Getting very monotonous.
Putting everything wrong on the list at the coaches feet.
Eleven players last week under 50 games. Poor recruiting previously.
Coaches fault!

[KT31]

Every post is about the coach. Getting very monotonous.
Putting everything wrong on the list at the coaches feet.
Eleven players last week under 50 games. Poor recruiting previously.
Coaches fault!

Coaches fault if we are not doing the basics.
Lot of posts re young players etc, but these blokes have still played many games of footy and should have an incling of what to do.
None of us have played at the level but we are experts.:D
Coaches fault if we seem to have have no game plan.
Coaches fault if the players don't have any accountability and chase.
Coaches fault if we don't man and back up our yeam mates.
Coaches fault if players stand with hands on hips and not man up.
Hoping its like the Hawks before their last flag and hoping it's not MacRhode.

[Greystache]

Every post is about the coach. Getting very monotonous.
Putting everything wrong on the list at the coaches feet.
Eleven players last week under 50 games. Poor recruiting previously.
Coaches fault!

It makes a nice change from last year where every post blamed Fantasia for the teams issues, fortunately this year we can blame the coach.

[jeemak]

I'm really looking forward to post season and pre season. Unreasonable expectations are so much easier to deal with when you're not playing each week, as there's truly no evidence to have to bother with when you make spurious claims.

[Remi Moses]

Coaches fault if we are not doing the basics.
Lot of posts re young players etc, but these blokes have still played many games of footy and should have an incling of what to do.
None of us have played at the level but we are experts.:D
Coaches fault if we seem to have have no game plan.
Coaches fault if the players don't have any accountability and chase.
Coaches fault if we don't man and back up our yeam mates.
Coaches fault if players stand with hands on hips and not man up.
Hoping its like the Hawks before their last flag and hoping it's not MacRhode.

Big difference in playing Footy and playing at the elite level!
I'm not making a judgement until his third year and players have had some years of experience. Comparing him to Rohde at this stage is just plain stupidity.
Rohde had a better list to choose from then proceeded to bugger it up with mind blowing stupid trades .

[Remi Moses]

It makes a nice change from last year where every post blamed Fantasia for the teams issues, fortunately this year we can blame the coach.

Imagine McCartney sacked and this time next year we're in the same position.
Another sacked coach? Three coaches in 3 years!:eek:
Just don't reckon all the clubs ills should be at the feet of the coach

[The Pie Man]

I recall Jones played pretty well against Geelong.

Then was promptly dropped for Cordy vs Sydney!!!

:confused::mad::(

[The Pie Man]

Jones did deserve to be dropped after last week though - not sure he's been handled well through 2012, but no doubt he's been poor when given senior opportunities since the mid season break

[chef]

Imagine McCartney sacked and this time next year we're in the same position.
Another sacked coach? Three coaches in 3 years!:eek:
Just don't reckon all the clubs ills should be at the feet of the coach

This year is going to put us in good stead for the future.

Macca's not coaching to win ATM, it's all about education, development, list assessment and draft picks.

[LostDoggy]

Every post is about the coach. Getting very monotonous.
Putting everything wrong on the list at the coaches feet.
Eleven players last week under 50 games. Poor recruiting previously.
Coaches fault!

You must do some selective reading or forgetting.
Already mentioned a number of issues.
Just blaming the coach is as bad as just bad as just blaming the players as some here have done.

[LostDoggy]

This year is going to put us in good stead for the future.

Macca's not coaching to win ATM, it's all about education, development, list assessment and draft picks.

Education. Play the backman forward and forwards back, 3 rucks, your best creative players in stopping roles.
The main development we are doing is a losing culture.

[always right]

Education. Play the backman forward and forwards back, 3 rucks, your best creative players in stopping roles.
The main development we are doing is a losing culture.

Hmmm.....sounds like something you do with an under 11 side.

[Bulldog4life]

It makes a nice change from last year where every post blamed Fantasia for the teams issues, fortunately this year we can blame the coach.

Problem is when posters have a hobby horse such as running down Fantasia or Macca it appears so regularly in their posts. Like a broken record.

[G-Mo77]

Problem is when posters have a hobby horse such as running down Fantasia or Macca it appears so regularly in their posts. Like a broken record.

A bit like this?

Sd9Yibf_UXE

:D

[Ghost Dog]

Problem is when posters have a hobby horse such as running down Fantasia or Macca it appears so regularly in their posts. Like a broken record.

Fantasia's errors are a bit like a broken record too....:D

[Bulldog4life]

Fantasia's errors are a bit like a broken record too....:D

You proved my point.:)

[LostDoggy]

Problem is when posters have a hobby horse such as running down Fantasia or Macca it appears so regularly in their posts. Like a broken record.

A bit like the way we are playing at the moment.
I think she'll be right, development/education, crack in line is a lot more monotonous.

[bornadog]

Liam Jones doesn't work hard enough.
He's not fit enough and Neither is Veszpremi.
Veszpremi always looks spent and he'll be gone by years end IMO.

Agree.

I was shot down in flames last year when I said the same thing and thought a good stint in the VFL would do him good. As for Vez, not up to it.

[bornadog]

Macca's not coaching to win ATM, it's all about education, development, list assessment and draft picks.

That's what Dean Baily did;)

[LostDoggy]

Talia in Sherman out DJ sub

[LostDoggy]

Williams also out for DJ

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This could get pretty ugly.*

* More so than it has been in recent months.

[LostDoggy]

Good to see JJ not being sub, same with Skinner. This is his last chance to show something.

[Greystache]

Glad to see Talia get a taste, I'd had Roberts in front to this point but just happy to see one of them get a try. Talia's pretty raw at the moment, I wouldn't be expecting much more than some experience for him.

[bornadog]

Two debutants

Any major problems with Williams

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Two debutants

Any major problems with Williams

The information was that Williams had a sprained ankle.

[Desipura]

Agree.

I was shot down in flames last year when I said the same thing and thought a good stint in the VFL would do him good. As for Vez, not up to it.

Like when I said Gia should only have been offered a one year contract last season, people thought I was Gia bashing.


It's ok to constantly bag the coach and MC however do not dare to offer an opinion on a player I believe only had a year left in the game.
By the way, well done to the coach and MC for playing Roughy at CHB, looked like a natural in that position today. Played the best game in his short career, hopefully this is a turning point for him.

[LostDoggy]

Like when I said Gia should only have been offered a one year contract last season, people thought I was Gia bashing.


It's ok to constantly bag the coach and MC however do not dare to offer an opinion on a player I believe only had a year left in the game.


Yes it's Gia fault the club offered 2 years :rolleyes:

[Mofra]

Gia's next contract is on base salary though isn't it?
Hardly a salary cap breaker.

[Desipura]

Yes it's Gia fault the club offered 2 years :rolleyes:

Do you read posts before answering? Either you do not understand what is read or you just refuse to understand and just fire away (which you have a habit of doing).
I will clarify for you, I did not blame Gia for being offered 2 years, my point being when I offered my opinion that he should only get 1 year, it was said that I was Gia bashing.

[LostDoggy]

Do you read posts before answering? Either you do not understand what is read or you just refuse to understand and just fire away (which you have a habit of doing).
I will clarify for you, I did not blame Gia for being offered 2 years, my point being when I offered my opinion that he should only get 1 year, it was said that I was Gia bashing.
So it's a I told you so post? Good on you champ.
I think many of us thought 2 years was too much.
Based on performance last year which is what you always bag him on, he deserved 2 years,based on age 1.

To me your pointing out the club made a mistake.

Btw We have a player based anchor & banker thread every week. How is it players escape scrutiny?

[bornadog]

Like when I said Gia should only have been offered a one year contract last season, people thought I was Gia bashing.


It's ok to constantly bag the coach and MC however do not dare to offer an opinion on a player I believe only had a year left in the game.
By the way, well done to the coach and MC for playing Roughy at CHB, looked like a natural in that position today. Played the best game in his short career, hopefully this is a turning point for him.

How do you think Gia went today?

[Desipura]

So it's a I told you so post? Good on you champ.
I think many of us thought 2 years was too much.
Based on performance last year which is what you always bag him on, he deserved 2 years,based on age 1.

To me your pointing out the club made a mistake.

Btw We have a player based anchor & banker thread every week. How is it players escape scrutiny?

It's a post stating that it's ok for the likes of you to monotonously bag the coach and MC but you turn a blind eye when I or others make a comment that you disagree with.
When you defend a player who is badly out of form like Jones you blame the coaching, yet you do not comment when the coach makes a good move like playing Roughy at CHB, that's poor form.
I was responding to bornadog who was stating last year that Jones should be dropped and most shot him down, I was pointed out he was not alone.
If you don't like what I post don't reply. You never did have a balanced view on things.
Go on have the final say.

[Desipura]

How do you think Gia went today?

As a leader with his experience he was average to ok.
If he was a 30 game player, I would say he was good