What would we get?

[Mofra]

Yes, we're going terribly on field at the moment and already there has been talk of drafting.

It's easy to get excited by a likely bounty of picks 5 & 6 in the draft (assuming we keep the picks and don't enter the mini-draft with GWS), so I thought I'd look at what we'd be likely to get (by comparison with picks in past years) with our picks as it stands.

Picks: 5, 6, 27, 46, 47

(Assuming remaining picks will be rookie upgrades)


2005

Pick 5 - Scott "Scont" Pendlebury
Pick 6 - Beau Dowler
Pick 27 - Dylan Addison
Pick 46 - Travis Baird
Pick 47 - Ryan Gamble

Geez a Pendlebury would be a great outcome. Not sold on the other choices.


2006

Pick 5 - Travis Boak
Pick 6 - Mitch Thorp
Pick 27 - Brad Howard
Pick 46 - Colin Garland
Pick 47 - Kyle Reimers

Like 2005, pick 5 nets a gun, 3rd rounders are pass marks


2007

Pick 5 - Jarrad Grant
Pick 6 - David Myers
Pick 27 - Andy Otten
Pick 46 - Dennis Armfield
Pick 47 - Toby Thoolen

Picks 6 & 27 would be wins here, jury still out on Grant


2008

Pick 5 - Michael Hurley
Pick 6 - Chris Yarren
Pick 27 - Sam Wight
Pick 46 - Luke Rounds
Pick 47 - Rhys Stanley

First year both picks 5 & 6 are guns, well done with the Saints for pick 47


2009

Pick 5 - Ben Cunnington
Pick 6 - Gary Rohan
Pick 27 - Callum Bartlett
Pick 46 - Ben Stratton
Pick 47 - Ryan Harwood

Satisfied with picks 5 & 6 with this one - Rohan could be anything


2010

Pick 5 - Jarad Polec
Pick 6 - Reece Conca
Pick 27 - Kieran Harper
Pick 46 - Daniel Farmer
Pick 47 - Bradley Helbig

Picks 5 & 6 look pretty safe bets. Helbig played 10 games last year, Harper on 31 games is a great outcome.


2011

Pick 5 - Matt Buntine
Pick 6 - Chad Wingard
Pick 27 - Sam Kerridge
Pick 46 - Nicholas Joyce
Pick 47 - Patrick Weardon


In short, since 2008 picks 5 & 6 look set to be more than decent players (potential stars), and previously at least 1 turns out to be a gun. The later picks are a lottery so the talk of "5 picks in the top 50" is a misnomer - our later picks are likely to yield similar results, although the 2010 draft looks relatively solid all the way through.

[LostDoggy]

Previous year's picks for the last three are an indication of nothing being guaranteed.

To have the picks is one thing - to use them to advantage is another.

[Cyberdoggie]

I guess this shows that with picks under 10 your more than likely to get a gun or very good player.

Picks 27 and up a lot less likely.

I guess from averages you could say we would likely get 2 good players out of 5 picks in the top 50.

Any more than that and your ahead of the average.

[Eastdog]

If we're lucky in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft there can be gems. Picks 5 and 6 at least one of those will be really good. It requires good recruiters who really know about the players.

[The Pie Man]

Stratton at pick 46 was a result for Hawthorn

[Ghost Dog]

Has Dylan Addison at 27 been a result for us? ^_^

[Eastdog]

Has Dylan Addison at 27 been a result for us? ^_^

He try's hard for us but Im not sure that he would be up there with some of the really good players picked in the lower rounds of the draft.

[Eastdog]

Stratton at pick 46 was a result for Hawthorn

Stratton was a very good pick for Hawthorn. James Hird was picked very low down in the draft and became a champion player.

[LostDoggy]

Stratton was a very good pick for Hawthorn. Don't James Hird was also picked very low down in the draft and became a champion player.

Yes, he was a late pick - not sure about the last part:eek:

[bornadog]

I prefer to have picks 5 and 6 that anything above ten, so a better chance to get a decent player.

[DOG GOD]

Even if we had picks 1 and 2, our recruiters would probably stuff it up :)

[Cyberdoggie]

Has Dylan Addison at 27 been a result for us? ^_^

He's more like a pick 85 than 27

[Bulldog4life]

I prefer to have picks 5 and 6 that anything above ten, so a better chance to get a decent player.

So do I. Isn't it lucky we haven't won more matches.:)

[FrediKanoute]

Has Dylan Addison at 27 been a result for us? ^_^

No. If we had picked him at 50+ then maybe he would be a pass, but a top-30 pick no.

[G-Mo77]

Has Dylan Addison at 27 been a result for us? ^_^

Wasn't he a NSW scholarship pick? Or am I thinking of someone else.

[azabob]

Wasn't he a NSW scholarship pick? Or am I thinking of someone else.

NO he wasn't. Wasn't Oagle our only NSW scholarship player?

[G-Mo77]

NO he wasn't. Wasn't Oagle our only NSW scholarship player?

Yep, that's the one.

[Eastdog]

Yes, he was a late pick - not sure about the last part:eek:

1996 Brownlow Medalist. 2 time premiership player.

[Hot_Doggies]

David Myers a win at pick 6?? Big call!

[Eastdog]

What we do in this draft will show up in 5 years from now. Thats why we are struggling atm because of bad drafting 4-5 years ago. Richmond and Carlton to an extent are teams where this is showing up.

[Greystache]

Good thread Mofra, appreciate the research.

It's with noting the first round picks are a little bit deceptive as pick 6 has been the pick of death historically (mostly due to incompetent recruiting by Pelican at Hawthorn)

If we used pick 7 rather than 6 the list would look like this

2005- Ryder
2006- J Selwood
2007- Palmer
2008- Rich

That list is significantly better.

[EasternWest]

1996 Brownlow Medalist. 2 time premiership player.

I think EJ was being funny.

[LostDoggy]

We'd probably get another couple of rucks. Can't ever have enough.

[Eastdog]

I think EJ was being funny.

Probably right just stirring a bit :D

[Eastdog]

We'd probably get another couple of rucks. Can't ever have enough.

KPP players is what we need I think.

[Maddog37]

I think we need more guys that crack in.

[Eastdog]

I think we need more guys that crack in.

Very true. We need more guys like Boyd, Cross and Picken.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Even though we need the two best mids (pref. with skill, pace would be nice too) does anyone think we may look at a KPF?

The backs look 'OK' from a development standpoint with Lake (1-2 years left), Williams, Talia and Roberts.

The forwards list has numbers, but are they good? Panos and Hill are both untried and likely to be delisted, leaving Jones and Cordy. I think Jones can develop into a solid CHF but I don't think he'll be that 50+ goal kicking forward that we need. Personally, I don't see Cordy being that either.

It's worth looking at the best available KPF.

[Ghost Dog]

Just watching money Ball with Brad Pit. Anyone seen it? Interesting take on player selection in sport. Have we become overly sensitive to drafting 'characters'? '.

[Doc26]

The forwards list has numbers, but are they good? Panos and Hill are both untried and likely to be delisted, leaving Jones and Cordy. I think Jones can develop into a solid CHF but I don't think he'll be that 50+ goal kicking forward that we need. Personally, I don't see Cordy being that either.

It's worth looking at the best available KPF.

Panos must be on borrowed time although I feel Hill will get another season to prove himself.

It wont matter what forwards we pick up if we cant deliver it to them to advantage. We must find an outside mid who can break lines and dispose of it properly, like a new Cooney.

[Mofra]

David Myers a win at pick 6?? Big call!
Pick 6 has been terrible for a while - you have to go back to Tom Williams to find a decent one ;)

[w3design]

Even if we had picks 1 and 2, our recruiters would probably stuff it up :)

l Love this so true our first rnd picks have awful except for Griff and Coon .

[AndrewP6]

Just watching money Ball with Brad Pit. Anyone seen it? Interesting take on player selection in sport. Have we become overly sensitive to drafting 'characters'? '.

Yes I believe we have. And overly sensitive in handling anyone not made out of cardboard.

[bornadog]

Pick 6 has been terrible for a while - you have to go back to Tom Williams to find a decent one ;)

Pick 5 isnot bad from that year as well:p

[azabob]

Pick 5 isnot bad from that year as well:p

Average player at best!

Just imagine we got someone of his ilk....

[bornadog]

Average player at best!

Just imagine we got someone of his ilk....

Premierships in 2008 to 2010

[whythelongface]

Pick 5 isnot bad from that year as well:p


In hindsight how good were Hawthorn's top 10 picks that year. Bloody awesome. Without doubt the most successful of any draft and probably will be for many years to come.

[LostDoggy]

I would like to see a gorilla for the forward line drafted, someone who will develop into a monster that all fullbacks fear.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I would like to see a gorilla for the forward line drafted, someone who will develop into a monster that all fullbacks fear.

Well, when you find that time machine that takes you back to 1982,to recruit your full forward gorilla, can you bring me back a can of Tarino and a Big Razz.
Thanks

[Desipura]

I would like to see a gorilla for the forward line drafted, someone who will develop into a monster that all fullbacks fear.

These days you need a better balanced forward rather than relying on a Tony Lockett type which is so 80s-90s footy.

[Hotdog60]

These days you need a better balanced forward rather than relying on a Tony Lockett type which is so 80s-90s footy.

True but with our current bomb it in that kinda direction style football the Tony Lockett type would probably work.:p

[LostDoggy]

Well, when you find that time machine that takes you back to 1982,to recruit your full forward gorilla, can you bring me back a can of Tarino and a Big Razz.
Thanks

Oi! '82 was a very fine year…

[LostDoggy]

It would be nice to have a forward of the ilk of Jonathon Brown, look at Patton he is going to be a monster. Love to have had him in the team in 5 years.... I hope we can snag someone like that, but not sure there is one. Here is to chance.

[SlimPickens]

It would be nice to have a forward of the ilk of Jonathon Brown, look at Patton he is going to be a monster. Love to have had him in the team in 5 years.... I hope we can snag someone like that, but not sure there is one. Here is to chance.

Do you think we should go Hogan in the GWS mini draft for example or are you looking for someone like Jaksch as an earlier draft pick?

The draft is pretty shallow for quality talls this year, so maybe Hogan may be the way to go.

[LostDoggy]

I think we will have to take a chance on someone, big call I know to use a precious pick but what options do we have. I really dont see why they would go after another medium sized forward...we really need a tall, like I said a gorilla, I strongly believe that the game has gone back to the long kick inside 50 to a marking forward.

[Desipura]

True but with our current bomb it in that kinda direction style football the Tony Lockett type would probably work.:p

It did not work with Hall. I thought our forward line was more efficient when we had the smaller set up.

[Go_Dogs]

It did not work with Hall. I thought our forward line was more efficient when we had the smaller set up.

Johnson, Akermanis, Gia when he had another yard of pace, Murphy, Hahn smashing packs...it was a decent forward line with some star quality which we lack at the moment. I still think a small forward line could at times be effective, but history says you need key forwards to win finals.

[Desipura]

Johnson, Akermanis, Gia when he had another yard of pace, Murphy, Hahn smashing packs...it was a decent forward line with some star quality which we lack at the moment. I still think a small forward line could at times be effective, but history says you need key forwards to win finals.

Key words are key forwards, I totally agree with you.
Im disputing whether one gorilla full forward will solve our problems, it won't. You need more than that to be successful in finals.

[stefoid]

2008 was a good year, and 2012 is supposed to be good, so its a fair comparison?

[Topdog]

recruiting and then development will be key

[Maddog37]

Well Bmac is supposed to be one of the best at developing kids so fingers crossed that is the case.

[bornadog]

It did not work with Hall. I thought our forward line was more efficient when we had the smaller set up.

I think we need some speedy little guys like a Milne or Betts type. I wouldn't be happy recruiting a Gorilla, too slow besides we have enough already.

[Desipura]

I think we need some speedy little guys like a Milne or Betts type. I wouldn't be happy recruiting a Gorilla, too slow besides we have enough already.

Not with our first round picks. We need onballers more than anything and if Hogan is worthy, we should make every effort to get him given the lack of quality kip in the draft, then hope we get a classy onballer in the first round.

[bornadog]

Not with our first round picks. We need onballers more than anything and if Hogan is worthy, we should make every effort to get him given the lack of quality kip in the draft, then hope we get a classy onballer in the first round.

I was talking in general drafting.

[Dancin' Douggy]

It did not work with Hall. I thought our forward line was more efficient when we had the smaller set up.

With all due respect, there is a HUGE gulf between Barry Hall and Sir Tony Lockett.
They are not even in the same ballpark.

[Doc26]

I wouldn't be happy recruiting a Gorilla, too slow besides we have enough already.


We need onballers more than anything and if Hogan is worthy, we should make every effort to get him given the lack of quality kip in the draft, then hope we get a classy onballer in the first round.

Yes and yes.

On last reading Collingwood have still not come to terms with Sharrod Wellingham. I'd be more interested in the Club having a decent crack at him over any interest in their big gorilla who is demanding the world. Wellingham would give us much needed clean outside run, can use the ball well, kick goals and with a developed body is capable of providing much support for Griffen.

The challenge of course is how to convince like player that our Club is the place to be over a serious premiership contender with what would seem unlimited resources available to them.

Unlikely but I'd be hoping a call or two has been placed with his management and not sure what it would take to make the deal.

[Desipura]

Yes and yes.

On last reading Collingwood have still not come to terms with Sharrod Wellingham. I'd be more interested in the Club having a decent crack at him over any interest in their big gorilla who is demanding the world. Wellingham would give us much needed clean outside run, can use the ball well, kick goals and with a developed body is capable of providing much support for Griffen.

The challenge of course is how to convince like player that our Club is the place to be over a serious premiership contender with what would seem unlimited resources available to them.

Unlikely but I'd be hoping a call or two has been placed with his management and not sure what it would take to make the deal.

I respect your opinion Doc however I do not share the same enthusiasm for Wellingham.
I think he is a very handy player in a strong midfield but not an A grader that can support the likes of Griffen.
Also it would probably mean we would have to give up a first round pick which I would not be keen on doing.
In the past, his character has been questioned as well, remember he is mates with Franklin.

[LongWait]

I respect your opinion Doc however I do not share the same enthusiasm for Wellingham.
I think he is a very handy player in a strong midfield but not an A grader that can support the likes of Griffen.
Also it would probably mean we would have to give up a first round pick which I would not be keen on doing.
In the past, his character has been questioned as well, remember he is mates with Franklin.

You are correct Desi - we do not want Wellingham....

[LostDoggy]

Why we even contemplating the likes of Wellingham?
Might get a small improve in the side for a few years at a high cost.

[GVGjr]

Why we even contemplating the likes of Wellingham?
Might get a small improve in the side for a few years at a high cost.

We probably shouldn't be.

[Stefcep]

Johnson, Akermanis, Gia when he had another yard of pace, Murphy, Hahn smashing packs...it was a decent forward line with some star quality which we lack at the moment. I still think a small forward line could at times be effective, but history says you need key forwards to win finals.

Exactly. And its not just finals. Most of the top 8 have a tall, athletic forward or two and I see this as the modern version of the "gorilla" thats already been mentioned. Problem is these players are the hardest to find or develop.

[LostDoggy]

I think we have enough midfielders at the moment, the talls are mostly rucks, can they be developed into fowards?

I feel we have to take a punt on a tall key position forward who can develop (even a mature aged one), the rucks we have would compliment him, but I am not sure our talls (other then Jones who is also learning) are true fowards.

In the end what the hell throw Lake up forward, he was one as a junior. Lets see can take a great grab, has body strength, can read the play and knows how to kick a goal....works for me. Marko at FB.

[Desipura]

I think we have enough midfielders at the moment, the talls are mostly rucks, can they be developed into fowards?

I feel we have to take a punt on a tall key position forward who can develop (even a mature aged one), the rucks we have would compliment him, but I am not sure our talls (other then Jones who is also learning) are true fowards.

In the end what the hell throw Lake up forward, he was one as a junior. Lets see can take a great grab, has body strength, can read the play and knows how to kick a goal....works for me. Marko at FB.
I could not disagree with you more. Lake at FB where he plays his best footy, our rucks are not forwards and we need alot more quality midfielders with skill and speed.

[LostDoggy]

I could not disagree with you more. Lake at FB where he plays his best footy, our rucks are not forwards and we need alot more quality midfielders with skill and speed.

Yeah I know, reality hits.

[Mofra]

Any interest?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143912/default.aspx?utm_source=AFL+and+club+newsletters&utm_campaign=070f2cf673-Runner_R20&utm_medium=email

We had a big win with Dickson, I'm calling a loss on Redpath.

[bornadog]

Any interest?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143912/default.aspx?utm_source=AFL+and+club+newsletters&utm_campaign=070f2cf673-Runner_R20&utm_medium=email

We had a big win with Dickson, I'm calling a loss on Redpath.

Started a new thread yesterday on mature age draft picks:

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?p=284077#post284077

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

We probably shouldn't be.

It begs the question would you rather recruit a Wellingham or a DJ, Veszpremi, Moles or Sherman that we have done in recent years.Wellingham would add vital support to Boyd and Griffen in the midfield where games are won and lost these days. Recruiting quality players from successful clubs is the way to go. Judd and Jolly being just two outstanding examples. The dearth of talent at the WB in the age group between the ages 23-28 is obvious. This would go part way to bridging the gap.

[Sockeye Salmon]

It begs the question would you rather recruit a Wellingham or a DJ, Veszpremi, Moles or Sherman that we have done in recent years.Wellingham would add vital support to Boyd and Griffen in the midfield where games are won and lost these days. Recruiting quality players from successful clubs is the way to go. Judd and Jolly being just two outstanding examples. The dearth of talent at the WB in the age group between the ages 23-28 is obvious. This would go part way to bridging the gap.

DJ cost pick 58, Veszpremi cost another dud in Everitt and moles was a rookie. You won't get Wellingham for anything like that sort of price.

Sherman was fairly close to Wellingham in terms of output when we got him.

[GVGjr]

DJ cost pick 58, Veszpremi cost another dud in Everitt and moles was a rookie. You won't get Wellingham for anything like that sort of price.

Sherman was fairly close to Wellingham in terms of output when we got him.

Spot on assessments.

I'm under the impression that McCartney doesn't want to chase anyone in the trade period over the age of 22/23 so with that in mind I doubt we will do much.

I tend to agree with NBP view that we need someone around 26/27 but I don't think we will look too hard at them.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

DJ cost pick 58, Veszpremi cost another dud in Everitt and moles was a rookie. You won't get Wellingham for anything like that sort of price.

Sherman was fairly close to Wellingham in terms of output when we got him.
Hard to compare Sherman's output with Wellingham over the past two seasons. The recruiting of unproven players from other clubs in Moles, DJ and Vesz has proved fruitless. These decisions simply create a lack of depth. This policy needs to be eradicated in the future.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Hard to compare Sherman's output with Wellingham over the past two seasons. The recruiting of unproven players from other clubs in Moles, DJ and Vesz has proved fruitless. These decisions simply create a lack of depth. This policy needs to be eradicated in the future.

Then perhaps you should compare Wellingham with Sherman's output before he came to us - the output that we were basing our decision on, the output that saw him come runner up in Brisbane's B & F.

Also try comparing DJ, Veszpremi and Moles to other low draft picks like Damian McCormack, Paul O'Shea or Malcolm Lynch.

Most recycled players don't work out, occasionally one does. The same can be said for low draft picks.


Considering what we paid for them, nil all draw.

[Desipura]

DJ cost pick 58, Veszpremi cost another dud in Everitt and moles was a rookie. You won't get Wellingham for anything like that sort of price.

Sherman was fairly close to Wellingham in terms of output when we got him.

Yes however our failure to do a deal with St Kilda the previous year cost us from potentially getting a late 2nd or early 3rd pick instead we traded for Vespa.
A few years back we had been offered a late 2nd round pick for Hill again from the Saints, we decided to play hard ball and the rest is history.
You can paint a picture anyway you like.
A brissie mate said Sherman was not a wise choice at the time as he did not have natural footy smarts and had only played one good year of footy, he called him a front runner. It's pretty accurate assessment IMHO

[G-Mo77]

Yes however our failure to do a deal with St Kilda the previous year cost us from potentially getting a late 2nd or early 3rd pick instead we traded for Vespa.
A few years back we had been offered a late 2nd round pick for Hill again from the Saints, we decided to play hard ball and the rest is history

I thought it was Hawthorn chasing Hill.

[Mantis]

Yes however our failure to do a deal with St Kilda the previous year cost us from potentially getting a late 2nd or early 3rd pick instead we traded for Vespa.

That was due to St.Kilda pulling out, not us.


A few years back we had been offered a late 2nd round pick for Hill again from the Saints, we decided to play hard ball and the rest is history.

Are you sure?


A brissie mate said Sherman was not a wise choice at the time as he did not have natural footy smarts and had only played one good year of footy, he called him a front runner. It's pretty accurate assessment IMHO

In a decent side Sherman would be ok, he was even going pretty well in the 1st 1/2 of last year before the racism issue.

Obviously there has been some teething issues with regard to Macca's coaching philosphies, but I think he can still add a fair bit to our team going forward.

[GVGjr]

In a decent side Sherman would be ok, he was even going pretty well in the 1st 1/2 of last year before the racism issue.

Obviously there has been some teething issues with regard to Macca's coaching philosphies, but I think he can still add a fair bit to our team going forward.

What position do you think Sherman best fills for us? He's done OK as a forward but his goals kicking hasn't been good.

[Mantis]

What position do you think Sherman best fills for us? He's done OK as a forward but his goals kicking hasn't been good.

I think he is best suited on a wing or as a HF.

[Desipura]

That was due to St.Kilda pulling out, not us.



Are you sure?



In a decent side Sherman would be ok, he was even going pretty well in the 1st 1/2 of last year before the racism issue.

Obviously there has been some teething issues with regard to Macca's coaching philosphies, but I think he can still add a fair bit to our team going forward.

Surely you know that I do not just make statements without it being true or at least pretty close to.
St kilda only pulled out after we demanded a pick under 25. They were trying to get that back from Collingwood for Ball
We are not a decent side hence why Sherman is struggling, like I said he performs when the team is playing well.

[Mantis]

Surely you know that I do not just make statements without it being true or at least pretty close to.
St kilda only pulled out after we demanded a pick under 25. They were trying to get that back from Collingwood for Ball.

I can recall the saints pulling out of the race for Everitt as explained, but I have no recollection that they made a play for Hill.... so can you explain that one?


We are not a decent side hence why Sherman is struggling, like I said he performs when the team is playing well.

The same could be said about more than 3/4 of our team who are performing below standards we expect.

[G-Mo77]

I can recall the saints pulling out of the race for Everitt as explained, but I have no recollection that they made a play for Hill.... so can you explain that one?

No, neither do I. I know Hawthorn were chasing him hard the year before we got rid of him. Maybe Desi means them.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I can recall the saints pulling out of the race for Everitt as explained, but I have no recollection that they made a play for Hill.... so can you explain that one?



The same could be said about more than 3/4 of our team who are performing below standards we expect.

St, Kilda were close to offering their pick 16 for Everitt but ended up using it on Lovett.

I think Desi has just got confused.

[stefoid]

Sherman. I dunno. I have no faith in in him. Id trade him for a 2nd round pick upgrade this year if offered.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Sherman. I dunno. I have no faith in in him. Id trade him for a 2nd round pick upgrade this year if offered.

In all seriousness who would really want Sherman. He has run out of chances which was most obvious today.