Hope at last

[always right]

Sure we lost another game by 9 goals but at least today I saw hope for the future.

Johannisen, Tutt, Pearce, Talia, Wallis, Libba........play them all together for the rest of the year. Bring in Roberts for Skinner and Dahlhaus for Djukerra so we can build our team for next season.

Was anyone else encouraged by what they saw today?

[chef]

Roughead was very good too.

[always right]

Roughead was very good too.

Agree....breakout game for him today.

[LostDoggy]

Johanissen was a good debut,ran out of puff.
Tutt nothing new really
Pearce Ok but hasn't stepped up yet
Talia encouraging but is at least 1 year off.
Wallis great year
Libba still early.
Roughead best game for a while
Addison good up forward but needs to kick more goals with the opportunities.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Encouraging signs.

JJ was impressive, Pearce showed improvement, Roughead was great, Wallis terrific and Talia a solid debut.

Some talent to work with in the list above.

[always right]

Johanissen was a good debut,ran out of puff.
Tutt nothing new really
Pearce Ok but hasn't stepped up yet
Talia encouraging but is at least 1 year off.
Wallis great year
Libba still early.
Roughead best game for a while
Addison good up forward but needs to kick more goals with the opportunities.

Disagree about Pearce.....love how he takes the game on. Has shown more in his first year than Howard has shown in three. Yes Talia is one year off as you would expect but that was a very encouraging first game. Tutt needs to find more of the ball but I like his pace and willingness to chase....good traits to have.

[bornadog]

Agreed with all the players mentioned, throw in the mature age recruit Dickson and Smith who I thought played one of his better games. His tackling is sensational.

[Redemption97]

Sure we lost another game by 9 goals but at least today I saw hope for the future.

Johannisen, Tutt, Pearce, Talia, Wallis, Libba........play them all together for the rest of the year. Bring in Roberts for Skinner and Dahlhaus for Djukerra so we can build our team for next season.

Was anyone else encouraged by what they saw today?

Yeah I was. Dickson and Roughead were great today. I liked Addison's game up forward, he could have kicked 4 had he kicked straight.

Smith also showed he's going to be a good player.

[Bulldog Joe]

I was certainly encouraged.

The coach is right about Roughead - can be a key defender - read the ball well. his best game of the year.

Johannisen - fantastic debut.

Talia - good defensively and plenty to work with.

Pearce - good run takes the game on

Dickson is natural replacement for Gia

[jazzadogs]

Personally, not sure what we saw today that we hadn't already seen (Talia and Johannisen aside, obviously). We know we've got plenty of kids, we know that a lot of them are quality, the future is still bright.

Having said that, nice to see a change from the doom and gloom threads of last week.

[Eastdog]

It definitely was a more 'positive' performance in the 1st half today and we have some great young kids coming through who are going to be great but we fail to run out games and what I conclude from that is our fitness is not up to scratch and we need to have a solid pre season starting early.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Sure we lost another game by 9 goals but at least today I saw hope for the future.

Johannisen, Tutt, Pearce, Talia, Wallis, Libba........play them all together for the rest of the year. Bring in Roberts for Skinner and Dahlhaus for Djukerra so we can build our team for next season.

Was anyone else encouraged by what they saw today?

Good debuts by both Johannisen and Talia.Roughead played his best game at CHB, whilst Pearce did well. Addison was a good inclusion to the forward line which sorely missed both Dahlhaus and Williams. Club legend John Schultz is most impressed with Campbell's ruck work and clearly looks the best back up to Minson. Skinner and DJ failed to impress. Dickson has been terrific in his first year of League football.Howard still needs to do more and is yet to establish himself at senior level. You would have to be impressed with Clay Smith's attack on the ball today. The first half was encouraging although poor forward work again proved costly, which simply means that we still have a long way to go.

[Mofra]

Sure we lost another game by 9 goals but at least today I saw hope for the future.

Johannisen, Tutt, Pearce, Talia, Wallis, Libba........play them all together for the rest of the year. Bring in Roberts for Skinner and Dahlhaus for Djukerra so we can build our team for next season.

Was anyone else encouraged by what they saw today?
I was over the moon with Wallis today - in under 12 months he's gone from "hope he makes it" to "will he be A grade?".
Earlier in the year I saw a bit of Priddis in him, and I was dead wrong - the Sam Mitchell comparisons are much better.

JJ - very happy. Harbrow mk 2.
Pearce looks a bit more settled and could be best 22 after a pre-season.
Talia was quite good too.

Roughy's marking was excellent, gave Tarrant a bath to 3/4 time. I'm still not entirely convinced his future lies as a backman.

Tutt I'm not comnvinced with - takes a short step far too often.

[MrMahatma]

Was good to see some run and spread in the first half too. We'll go ok in another 18months or so.

[Remi Moses]

What about the ironic cheers Tarrant got?
Quite staggered to be honest.First time someone other than Murphy took the game on (JJ)
Like the look of Pierce and Talia looks solid like his brother.If Smith and Talia can become at least competent kicks, they'll be good footballers.

[LostDoggy]

Opinion about Howard?

[Eastdog]

Opinion about Howard?

He played ok today in the 1st half.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Opinion about Howard?

I thought he showed good signs in the first half, but like quite a few others in the second half became first a non-entity and then a liability.

[Eastdog]

I thought he showed good signs in the first half, but quite a few others in the second half became first a non-entity and then a liability.

Do you think he is in danger of being delisted or will he stay on. I reckon he'll stay on.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Do you think he is in danger of being delisted or will he stay on. I reckon he'll stay on.

I think he's contracted, so unless he is traded I'd imagine he'll be on the list.

[Eastdog]

I think he's contracted, so unless he is traded I'd imagine he'll be on the list.

What do you think his role in the side will be?

[SonofScray]

Agree, though not quite able squeeze much satisfaction from today's game there were some clear glimpses of what good side in red, white and blue might produce. I'll forego my whinge about goalkicking and not taking chances to highlight two things:

1. Physicality in the 1st half. Exemplified by Smith and Dicko in particular, but present in every part of the ground across multiple aspects of the game. It wasn't limited to the act of diving in on a loose footy. We got a full half of what Mac promised, players hunting the bloke with the pill, aggressive contests a will to stay in the contest. It was pleasing to see, if only for a half because we just have not given anything in recent weeks.

2. Individual improvement. A handful of solid performances from our less experienced players who while they faded probably reaffirms with me that they can play the game. Outside of praising young blokes, full credit to Addison, played his best game today. Was involved over the full 4 qtrs and played his role well.

What will give me a great deal of hope now and into next season is seeing if anyone at the Club will develop some goal sense and actually start to nail goals from different scenarios, regularly.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

What do you think his role in the side will be?

That's a good question. It's clear the coaching staff want to develop him as a ball using defender in the style of Lindsay Gilbee.
To do this I think he needs to improve significantly in a number of areas, in particular:
- his positioning in a one on one aerial contest. When Gilbee was at his best he was very good at defensive spoiling in marking contests and also cutting off or intercepting balls. Howard either gets his timing wrong or finds himself in the wrong position at the contest and either can't affect a spoil or gets shoved out of the way to easily.
- concentration- it's hard to tell why from the TV, but he seems to end up being not where his opponent is at the wrong time. I'm guessing he is not yet able to manage his need to watch the play unfold upfield without losing awareness of where his opponent is.
-tackling- quite often his tackles don't stick.
- field kicking to advantage. Again Gilbee at his best would pierce the opposition and find the option that would set up our sides attacking play. Howard's standout attribute as touted by our recruiting team was his kicking. At the moment he seems to take the 100% safe option, but this is often not the most advantageous option for the team to set up.

He may in time be able to address these areas, but at the moment they are to me in need of quick improvement if he is to play a significant role in the future.

[Eastdog]

Will Gilbee play on next year? I would think he would be close to retirement.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Will Gilbee play on next week? I would think he would be close to retirement.

I hope the coach sticks with youth, and maybe gives Gilbee and possibly Shaggy a farewell game in the final round.
I cant see anything being gained by playing Gilbee at this stage.

[bornadog]

Opinion about Howard?

20 game rule;)

[bornadog]

I hope the coach sticks with youth, and maybe gives Gilbee and possibly Shaggy a farewell game in the final round.
I cant see anything being gained by playing Gilbee at this stage.

At the Gabba:eek:

[Eastdog]

At the Gabba:eek:

If they do have their farewell match this year then it would have to be against Sydney at Etihad in Round 21 most likely.

[jeemak]

Opinion about Howard?

The only person apart from Gia and Murphy who I want the ball to be with when the forward line is jam packed full of opposition backs and midfielders and a target needs to be found.

He's not as defensively savvy as I'd like him to be right now, though he's been identified by the club openly as a player that was always going to require a lot of development.

Let's judge him on his performances when he's played 50-75 games. I'm very confident by then he'll have proved himself to be one of the best ball users at our club, long and short.

[jeemak]

There's plenty to be satisfied with after today's game.

- If Norf are three or so years in to a rebuild and are putting these results together then we're only a preseason or two behind them

- Wallis and Libertore will be by far the best and most dominant inside midfield combination in the league within three or four years. Liberatore's disposal and decision making has been horrible at times in recent games, though he still gets his hands on it and he'll learn how to use it. Wallis has handballing skill in close that is going to be remembered in the top bracket of all time

- Talia and Roughead gave us a glimpse of what can be achieved in the back six with some planning and versatility

- JJ and Pearce showed how important pace mixed with intent is to our side moving forward today. They'll make mistakes a lot moving forwards, I hope they get left alone for a bit as they develop

- Missing Cooney, Morris, Wood, Dahlhaus, Higgins, Williams and Sherman (and not playing Hargrave and Gilbee) from our best 22 this week and we still demonstrated we can match it with a mid table side if we have the energy. Another pre-season under our belts will make us competitive in the second half

[Hotdog60]

Is Roughead being groomed to takeover the Lake role? His marking was good yesterday and his kicking was ok too. It will be good for Roughead if he can make the transition and not a bad idea to have a replacement for Lake in a season or two's time.

[LongWait]

Is Roughead being groomed to takeover the Lake role? His marking was good yesterday and his kicking was ok too. It will be good for Roughead if he can make the transition and not a bad idea to have a replacement for Lake in a season or two's time.

Rougheads' performance down back these last two games, together with our large number of inside 50's but low score, raises the hoary old chestnut again: should we play Lake up forward for a few games to try to get a better forward structure?

[GVGjr]

I think there is a lot to be optimistic about especially with the younger guys but it will take time.

Wallis and Libertore can become 200 game players
Howard has played some good games this season (and some poor ones)
Johannisen looks to have the pace and skills that our list needs to add
Roughead is getting experience at a variety of positions.
Dahlhaus still has plenty of scope for improvement.
Smith can become a strong midfielder for us.

What we need to hopefully fall in place for us is:
Jones to establish himself as a key forward
Grant to reach his potential
Roberts and Talia to continue to develop
Markovic and Austin to add depth as key defenders
Williams to become a key forward
and Higgins to stay fit.

All this is easier said than done but with some early picks in the draft we can certainly add some more exciting players.

[Bulldog4life]

I think there is a lot to be optimistic about especially with the younger guys but it will take time.

Wallis and Libertore can become 200 game players
Howard has played some good games this season (and some poor ones)
Johannisen looks to have the pace and skills that our list needs to add
Roughead is getting experience at a variety of positions.
Dahlhaus still has plenty of scope for improvement.
Smith can become a strong midfielder for us.

What we need to hopefully fall in place for us is:
Jones to establish himself as a key forward
Grant to reach his potential
Roberts and Talia to continue to develop
Markovic and Austin to add depth as key defenders
Williams to become a key forward
and Higgins to stay fit.

All this is easier said than done but with some early picks in the draft we can certainly add some more exciting players.

Agree with all the players mentioned above GVGjr and if Wood, Cordy & Dickson keep improving too the team as a whole can improve no doubt.

[GVGjr]

Agree with all the players mentioned above GVGjr and if Wood, Cordy & Dickson keep improving too the team as a whole can improve no doubt.

It would be a great bonus for us if Cordy could become a key forward but if Williams, Jones and then Grant become forwards for us I don't think there is a spot for Cordy.
You're right about Dickson because with a better fitness base he can improve.
I find hard to identify a spot for Easton Wood in the team. He's athletic which we lack and physical which we like but he isn't a good decision maker and his skill level isn't great.

[Maddog37]

Think back to the Pies game before he did his hammy. That is what Wood brings. I would like to try him forward.

[Stefcep]

I was certainly encouraged.

The coach is right about Roughead - can be a key defender - read the ball well. his best game of the year.



I don't agree.

I would persevere with him a a forward until he proves he's just not good enough.

Lake was a KPF, we turned him into an elite full back-for a season or two-and failed at 3 prelims because we didn't have a KPF. We don't need to repeat this with Roughhead.

[The Underdog]

Markovic and Austin to add depth as key defenders


Given the rise of Austin, and improvement of Talia and Roberts, is there a spot on the list for Markovic next year? Given we're likely to be developing players next year, would he be anything more than a last call back-up?

[GVGjr]

Lake was a KPF, we turned him into an elite full back-for a season or two-and failed at 3 prelims because we didn't have a KPF. We don't need to repeat this with Roughhead.

Lake was always a key position defender when he arrived at the club. With Roughead the plan appears to be to use him as a versatile tall capable of playing forward, back and in the ruck and I think that is great for his development.
I think we have to put faith in Jones and Williams as key forwards next season.

[Stefcep]

Lake was always a key position defender when he arrived at the club. With Roughead the plan appears to be to use him as a versatile tall capable of playing forward, back and in the ruck and I think that is great for his development.
I think we have to put faith in Jones and Williams as key forwards next season.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "arriving at the club", but thats definately NOT the way I remember it, and its been said (on this site and by TV commentators) that Lake played as a KPF until we made a defender of him.

[The Underdog]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "arriving at the club", but thats definately NOT the way I remember it, and its been said (on this site and by TV commentators) that Lake played as a KPF until we made a defender of him.

Lake was a borderline draft pick who became an All-Australian key defender. If he was that talented a junior forward then he would have been played there.

[GVGjr]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "arriving at the club", but thats definately NOT the way I remember it, and its been said (on this site and by TV commentators) that Lake played as a KPF until we made a defender of him.

In his first season at Werribee as Brian Harris he was pitted against Tony Lockett (playing for Port) so right from his first few games he was playing as a key defender. He performed very well in that role on the day.
He was drafted after playing as a forward in SA but from very early on he was a defender for us.

I stand to be corrected but I don't believe we ever established him as a forward then turned him into a defender.

[chef]

I can remember Brian playing his first game in the forward line, but since then it's always been as a defender.

[GVGjr]

I can remember Brian playing his first game in the forward line, but since then it's always been as a defender.

I seem to recall the same.

[Bulldog Joe]

I don't agree.

I would persevere with him a a forward until he proves he's just not good enough.

Lake was a KPF, we turned him into an elite full back-for a season or two-and failed at 3 prelims because we didn't have a KPF. We don't need to repeat this with Roughhead.

So you don't agree that Roughy CAN be a key defender, but you think he should be perservered with as a forward.

Really if he can make as a key forward (which you are suggesting), he can certainly be a key defender.

This game was his best at the club EVER and as a key defender.

[Eastdog]

So you don't agree that Roughy CAN be a key defender, but you think he should be perservered with as a forward.

Really if he can make as a key forward (which you are suggesting), he can certainly be a key defender.

This game was his best at the club EVER and as a key defender.

Would you see Roughead's role as a key forward or key defender?

[soupman]

I don't agree.

I would persevere with him a a forward until he proves he's just not good enough.

Lake was a KPF, we turned him into an elite full back-for a season or two-and failed at 3 prelims because we didn't have a KPF. We don't need to repeat this with Roughhead.

I disagree. We need both key forwards and key defenders. Roughead has shown an ability in two games to play defence better than the numerous games he has spent up forward. Stick with him back.

As for Lake, arguably if we didn't have him as an "elite full back" we wouldn't have made those prelims. Are you seriously suggesting we stuffed up by making a player the best full back in the league?

[MrMahatma]

You need elite players across all lines if you're gonna challenge. If we're starting to work out which areas we may already have covered, that's a good thing.

The list as it is isn't going to challenge so you're shifting deck chairs on the titanic if you care too much about whether we uncover a good KPD or KPF. We're gonna need both.

[LostDoggy]

Opinion about Howard?

Still unconvinced

Loses his feet too often.

Only plus is his kicking which has the potential to be elite.

[LostDoggy]

I liked what i saw in the first half and at least walked away with some positives and a glimpse of what positives the future will hold for us!

Roughead - very good and would be happy for us to perservere with him as a CHB. With the way our guys are delivering the ball into the forward line, it is meaningless to have him anywhere up forward.

Pearce - not afraid to have a crack. Will get better with time and size.

JJ - some dash! Hooray! Loved how he can get himself out of trouble by putting his foot down and creating that little bit of space needed to setup some play.

Talia - good signs for him. Future KPP for us down back, no doubt.

Addison - leave him up forward! He has played his best football for us there and he needs time to refine his goalkicking....

C. Smith - he is learning quickly and will be much better in 2013.

Throw in Dahl, Wallis, Libba, Williams up forward, J Grant down back or on a wing, Dickson as a hard working small forward - we are looking like a team that will be able to challenge for finals next year.

Zephi will struggle im afraid. Too slow.
We need to hang onto Big Will!!! Please...

[Bulldog4life]

I can remember Brian playing his first game in the forward line, but since then it's always been as a defender.

I remember him playing a number of games in the forward line initially. Round 9 2003 he kicked 2 goals playing in the forward pocket against Adelaide. I remember the match vividly.

[w3design]

It would be a great bonus for us if Cordy could become a key forward but if Williams, Jones and then Grant become forwards for us I don't think there is a spot for Cordy.
You're right about Dickson because with a better fitness base he can improve.
I find hard to identify a spot for Easton Wood in the team. He's athletic which we lack and physical which we like but he isn't a good decision maker and his skill level isn't great.

Still undecided/unconvinced re Grant. Improved signs, but still fails to be involved or influential enough on the game for a kid with the talent he has.

Dickson with another pre season under the belt hopefully will begin to achieve more of his potential.

Now re East Wood. Given his particular talents, I would love to see him allocated to Rohan Smith to be trained for an old fashioned wingman role. Has pace, a natural inclination to try and take the opposition on, and he is a real athlete. He might also benefit from the option to get out into some space, and give us a bit more outside run and carry.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Now re East Wood. Given his particular talents, I would love to see him allocated to Rohan Smith to be trained for an old fashioned wingman role. Has pace, a natural inclination to try and take the opposition on, and he is a real athlete. He might also benefit from the option to get out into some space, and give us a bit more outside run and carry.

The problem with that is Wood doesn't get very much of the ball

[Bulldog Joe]

The problem with that is Wood doesn't get very much of the ball

The problem with Wood is that he is still learning his craft.

He has been played back all his time at the dogs and was drafted without being involved in the junior programs.

His performance against Geelong was an inkling of his capability. Potentially the best line breaker we have with his speed and strength. He also has an enormous leap and can take a big grab.

Just 39 games into his career and just coming to the stage where we need players. We can be very hasty to write players off.

[Remi Moses]

No point in playing Lake forward now.
It's not sustainable in the long term, and I'd keep playing Jones and Cordy up forward

[Desipura]

The problem with Wood is that he is still learning his craft.

He has been played back all his time at the dogs and was drafted without being involved in the junior programs.

His performance against Geelong was an inkling of his capability. Potentially the best line breaker we have with his speed and strength. He also has an enormous leap and can take a big grab.

Just 39 games into his career and just coming to the stage where we need players. We can be very hasty to write players off.

I totally agree with the above. With more experience he will learn when to defend and when to run off his opponent. This will enable him to get more of the ball.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I totally agree with the above. With more experience he will learn when to defend and when to run off his opponent. This will enable him to get more of the ball.

Wood is one of the few that has real dash in the team and could play well on a wing. Doesn't have the surety of a Morris at half back and prone to make errors. He might welcome the greater freedom across centre and give us quicker movement into the forward line

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

It would be a great bonus for us if Cordy could become a key forward but if Williams, Jones and then Grant become forwards for us I don't think there is a spot for Cordy.
You're right about Dickson because with a better fitness base he can improve.
I find hard to identify a spot for Easton Wood in the team. He's athletic which we lack and physical which we like but he isn't a good decision maker and his skill level isn't great.

Still to be convinced about Cordy Jones and Grant making it as key forwards.Williams lacks class but will compete as a forward and worth persevering with in attack.Roughead is gaining confidence as a defender and eventually has the potential to make it as a key forward. Dickson has been a fine pick up and along with Dahlhaus has been the best of an ordinary attack. Wood appears nervous at half back but with his undoubted speed may well be better suited on the wing.

[Remi Moses]

Still unconvinced

Loses his feet too often.

Only plus is his kicking which has the potential to be elite.

An incident with a North player where they both lost their feet.
Resulted in a goal, and he needs to get stronger on the ball and with his opponent.

[F'scary]

I disagree. We need both key forwards and key defenders. Roughead has shown an ability in two games to play defence better than the numerous games he has spent up forward. Stick with him back.

As for Lake, arguably if we didn't have him as an "elite full back" we wouldn't have made those prelims. Are you seriously suggesting we stuffed up by making a player the best full back in the league?

Agree with comment on Roughead. Well put