Dog 'in dark place'

[bornadog]

Link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143918/default.aspx)

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/338402-tom-liberatore-1.jpg

ROBERT Murphy is concerned for the welfare of young Western Bulldogs teammate Tom Liberatore, who he says has "lost his way" and is "in a really dark place".

Murphy, as a member of the Bulldogs leadership group, was part of the decision-making process that resulted in 20-year-old Liberatore being suspended for the rest of the season after police found him drunk and in possession of an illicit drug in the early hours of Sunday morning.

It had been "a really emotional, difficult situation", Murphy told Fox Footy program AFL 360 on Tuesday night.

"I know there's a football side of it and the discipline and all that kind of thing, but from my perspective it's more of a real concern for a young man, a young friend," he said.

"I love Tom. He's a really good lad.

"He's in a really dark place at the moment.

"He's copping it from all angles. That's the world we live in.

"My thoughts are with a young mate who's lost his way at the moment."

Murphy also gave a poignant insight into what took place when Liberatore met the Dogs' leadership group.

"Footy's an industry that's built on macho and not showing weakness and vulnerability, but we have these meetings and sometimes you have these moments where we're just laid bare," he said.

"Inside a footy club, that's when it's so raw, and that was one of those times."

[LostDoggy]

Would love to know what's fact and what's fiction with this Tom situation? If you believe the gossip, it would appear that he is a well known party boy and one wonders why the problem hasn't been addressed. Also, what's with Aker "confirming" that Dahl was also on the gear?? If untrue, he should be sued.

[bornadog]

Would love to know what's fact and what's fiction with this Tom situation? If you believe the gossip, it would appear that he is a well known party boy and one wonders why the problem hasn't been addressed. Also, what's with Aker "confirming" that Dahl was also on the gear?? If untrue, he should be sued.

If everyone knew he was a party boy, why hasn't someone stepped in before and tried to sort him out?

[LostDoggy]

If everyone knew he was a party boy, why hasn't someone stepped in before and tried to sort him out?

Exactly bornadog, seems strange that the club would allow it to even get to this point. There are so many rumors that float around and it's quite unhelpful.

[Cyberdoggie]

If everyone knew he was a party boy, why hasn't someone stepped in before and tried to sort him out?

Perhaps another example of the void in age group at our club.

There's the older guys (mostly the leadership group), the younger guys and nothing in between.

It's not only a problem on the field i think it also effects the dynamics of the whole club.
When there's a dozen old blokes and a fair amount of young kids, they would no doubt clash over a lot of issues.

They talk Mitch Wallis up as a leader but maybe he should have said or done something, It would surprise me if his mates at the club didn't know about it.

[Topdog]

If everyone knew he was a party boy, why hasn't someone stepped in before and tried to sort him out?

how do you know that they haven't?

[bornadog]

how do you know that they haven't?

Well they haven't succeeded if they have, which tells me there are bigger issues.

[LostDoggy]

Well they haven't succeeded if they have, which tells me there are bigger issues.

Sorry mate, but it tells me that he just doesn't listen.

[bornadog]

Sorry mate, but it tells me that he just doesn't listen.

so everyone just accepts that?

[Ghost Dog]

I'm in a Dark place with my footy club!
hey Libba, I'd love to have 40 hours a week work; even if it was mentally and physically challenging!

[azabob]

I'm in a Dark place with my footy club!
hey Libba, I'd love to have 40 hours a week work; even if it was mentally and physically challenging!

What has your work situation got to do with Liberatore and the demons he is facing?

[Ghost Dog]

What has your work situation got to do with Liberatore and the demons he is facing?

He's being made to work 40 hours a week in a 'normal job'. :D For him, this is punishment.
Well, it would be a blessing for others.

[azabob]

He's being made to work 40 hours a week in a 'normal job'. :D For him, this is punishment.
Well, it would be a blessing for others.

Ah, now I get ya.

[LostDoggy]

so everyone just accepts that?

He's an adult. He's responsible for his own actions. His mates can “look after him” to a certain point, but once beyond that point it's up to him.

[bornadog]

He's an adult. He's responsible for his own actions. His mates can “look after him” to a certain point, but once beyond that point it's up to him.

Technically not an adult yet. Look I get where you are coming from, but it sounds like he needs help and its up to some senior people to give him some guidance and assistance.

[EasternWest]

Technically not an adult yet. Look I get where you are coming from, but it sounds like he needs help and its up to some senior people to give him some guidance and assistance.

Can you elaborate on this?

[Topdog]

Technically not an adult yet.

He's 20 not 17. Technically and any other way you look at it he is an adult.

[KT31]

Technically not an adult yet. Look I get where you are coming from, but it sounds like he needs help and its up to some senior people to give him some guidance and assistance.

Showing your age BAD, its a bit old fashioned to suggest he is not an adult until, he gets the key to the door, at 21.

[bornadog]

He's 20 not 17. Technically and any other way you look at it he is an adult.

Last time I looked 21 is the adult age.

Not sure what your problem is, I was making some suggestions on how he could be helped

[bornadog]

Showing your age BAD, its a bit old fashioned to suggest he is not an adult until, he gets the key to the door, at 21.

Maybe I am showing my age but if he wants to act like a child he he should be treated like one

[Twodogs]

Maybe I am showing my age but if he wants to act like a child he he should be treated like one



But that reinforces the immature choices and behaviour he's been displaying so far. It used to be that you reached your majority at the age of 21 but these days it's at the age 18 that you get to vote, drink, drive, join the armed force, legally sign contracts and etc that mark you out as an adult. For all intents and purposes Tom is a grown up and has to make grown up choices. At the moment he is making some very childish choices.


If he continues down this path he will find out what a dark place the world can become. If he thinks it's bad now just because he has been caught out it will only get worse unless the choices he makes are better thought out and advised.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Last time I looked 21 is the adult age.

Not sure what your problem is, I was making some suggestions on how he could be helped

He can drink, vote and drive a car.

[bornadog]

He can drink, vote and drive a car.

and still act like he is immature.

[LostDoggy]

No key to door though

[mighty_west]

and still act like he is immature.

So is Fev, and Daniel Connors and Ben Cousins etc etc, on the other hand a young Dale Morris simply refused to go out with mates chasing his dream to play AFL.

[KT31]

He can drink, vote and drive a car.

Be tried as an adult, not as a juvenile offender.

[Topdog]

and still act like he is immature.

Unfortunately I know 35 year olds that do the same.

btw no problem before. sometimes i type quickly and it sounds harsh. Im just typing quickly not being a *****

[LostDoggy]

Last time I looked 21 is the adult age.

Not sure what your problem is, I was making some suggestions on how he could be helped

He could be best helped by helping him realise he has to take charge of his own life. The days of mum making him school lunches are long gone. He can't blame his dickhead mates, he can't blame anything except his own stupidity. Harping on at his “senior teammates” for not getting him home is ridiculous. Yeah, they should look out for him, but that's Plan B. Plan A is looking out for himself and acting responsibly. (Gee I sound like an old bastard!)

I make my kids take responsibility for their actions. When they stuff up, I tell them it's fine that they stuff up, but they have to man up and take responsibility for the consequences. My sons are 9 and 7 and my daughter is 6. Never too young to learn!


But that reinforces the immature choices and behaviour he's been displaying so far. It used to be that you reached your majority at the age of 21 but these days it's at the age 18 that you get to vote, drink, drive, join the armed force, legally sign contracts and etc that mark you out as an adult. For all intents and purposes Tom is a grown up and has to make grown up choices. At the moment he is making some very childish choices.

If he continues down this path he will find out what a dark place the world can become. If he thinks it's bad now just because he has been caught out it will only get worse unless the choices he makes are better thought out and advised.

You can join the armed forces at 17. But I digress… :)

[Twodogs]

He could be best helped by helping him realise he has to take charge of his own life. The days of mum making him school lunches are long gone. He can't blame his dickhead mates, he can't blame anything except his own stupidity. Harping on at his “senior teammates” for not getting him home is ridiculous. Yeah, they should look out for him, but that's Plan B. Plan A is looking out for himself and acting responsibly. (Gee I sound like an old bastard!)


More like a sensible bastard. It all comes down to making the correct choices in life. I know because I made a lot of incorrect choices and found myself in a very bad place. It was hard enough to climb out of it as an anonymous-I'd hate to try and do it under the full glare of the public spotlight.

But you are dead right you when you say he has to stop blaming others. You can only do it properly when you do it for #1 and not because everyone else is telling you that you have to. I had to become completely independent and stop being interdependent on others to perform certain aspects of my life.





You can join the armed forces at 17. But I digress… :)

I never said you couldnt! You can also join them at 18. And 19.:p

[bornadog]

He could be best helped by helping him realise he has to take charge of his own life. The days of mum making him school lunches are long gone. He can't blame his dickhead mates, he can't blame anything except his own stupidity. Harping on at his “senior teammates” for not getting him home is ridiculous. Yeah, they should look out for him, but that's Plan B. Plan A is looking out for himself and acting responsibly. (Gee I sound like an old bastard!)

I make my kids take responsibility for their actions. When they stuff up, I tell them it's fine that they stuff up, but they have to man up and take responsibility for the consequences. My sons are 9 and 7 and my daughter is 6. Never too young to learn!


More like a sensible bastard. It all comes down to making the correct choices in life. I know because I made a lot of incorrect choices and found myself in a very bad place. It was hard enough to climb out of it as an anonymous-I'd hate to try and do it under the full glare of the public spotlight.

But you are dead right you when you say he has to stop blaming others. You can only do it properly when you do it for #1 and not because everyone else is telling you that you have to. I had to become completely independent and stop being interdependent on others to perform certain aspects of my life.

All well and good, but we all know how others can influence our lives, like dickhead mates and often we don't realise it. You can call him an adult, but as someone else mentioned, adults make lots of mistakes.

The first thing that can help Libba is that he has to admit he has a problem, then he needs to get help.

[Twodogs]

All well and good, but we all know how others can influence our lives, like dickhead mates and often we don't realise it. You can call him an adult, but as someone else mentioned, adults make lots of mistakes.

The first thing that can help Libba is that he has to admit he has a problem, then he needs to get help.



It's the first step. Then you lose the dickhead mates. Then you focus on making good choices.

I fear he doesnt properly understand that he has a problem yet though.

[bornadog]

It's the first step. Then you lose the dickhead mates. Then you focus on making good choices.

I fear he doesnt properly understand that he has a problem yet though.

yes I feel the same.

It is hard to change mates, but in his environment ie with lots of young team mates, he should be able to.

[Maddog37]

Not to lessen the value of your opinions guys but I feel there is quite a few conclusions being jumped to here.

[jeemak]

I don't know the severity of his problems, others seem to.

[Twodogs]

Not to lessen the value of your opinions guys but I feel there is quite a few conclusions being jumped to here.


I don't know the severity of his problems, others seem to.



Both fair points but he was arrested and put on a diversion program. However I am extrapolating a bit from that.

[AndrewP6]

Not to lessen the value of your opinions guys but I feel there is quite a few conclusions being jumped to here.

Absolutely, some seem to gather quite a lot from a few known facts.

[bornadog]

Absolutely, some seem to gather quite a lot from a few known facts.

Fact, sleeping in the gutter, pissed with pills in your pocket, tells you a bit.

[jeemak]

Fact, sleeping in the gutter, pissed with pills in your pocket, tells you a bit.

BAD, what exactly does it tell you? I'm interested, as I'm assuming you either have comprehensions skills far greater than mine or access to information I don't.

[AndrewP6]

Fact, sleeping in the gutter, pissed with pills in your pocket, tells you a bit.

Only 'tells you a bit' if you put 2 and 2 together and get 5. Doesn't necessarily mean he has a deep 'problem'. Plenty of 20 y/o get so drunk they pass out, and unfortunately, 'recreational drugs' are not uncommon in nightclubs.

[Sedat]

Fact, sleeping in the gutter, pissed with pills in your pocket, tells you a bit.
Aside from the 'pills' bit, that is about as common an occurance as you can see in the wee small hours in the city and has been for the last 40 years - and in day's prior to that it would be the same image seen at 6.05pm out the front of most pubs following the 6 o'clock swill. And from what I know about the under 30 set, the 'pills' bit is only slightly less common too.

None of this detracts from the fact that Libba is a DH for getting himself into such a situation, considering the priveliged access he gets to education and welfare programs as an elite AFL player, but to make assertions that there are deep problems beneath the surface would be presumptious at this stage - having said that, this has the capacity to become the thin edge of the wedge if said behaviour is left unchecked, whereby it could easily lead to something altogether more dangerous and sustained. The ball is very much in Libba's court how this plays out moving forward.

[chef]

Fact, sleeping in the gutter, pissed with pills in your pocket, tells you a bit.

Tells you he's your average young adult male. They make mistakes.

[LostDoggy]

Not to lessen the value of your opinions guys but I feel there is quite a few conclusions being jumped to here.

You're right. Perhaps we're all being a bit hasty.

[Desipura]

Were there drugs in his system? Was he drug tested?
If not, could someone have planted them in his pocket whilst unconcious?
So many questions, so few answers.

[Ghost Dog]

You would think the club would be saying to players, " Look, if you do drugs, eventually you are going to be caught. It's just a question of when."

[bornadog]

You would think the club would be saying to players, " Look, if you do drugs, eventually you are going to be caught. It's just a question of when."

I would say that message is given to them year after year. The AFL is pretty vigilant about educating players on drugs.

[The Underdog]

I would say that message is given to them year after year. The AFL is pretty vigilant about educating players on drugs.

It's almost like the rest of society where people are told about the evils of drugs, yet some choose to take them anyway. I wonder why that is?

[bornadog]

It's almost like the rest of society where people are told about the evils of drugs, yet some choose to take them anyway. I wonder why that is?

My two bobs, either its peer pressure, or they have a problem in life, ie they can't enjoy life without being high.

[Mantis]

Fact, sleeping in the gutter, pissed with pills in your pocket, tells you a bit.

I read that he was found with 1 illegal pill (thought to be ecstasy) in his pocket... where did you hear that he had pills?

[bornadog]

I read that he was found with 1 illegal pill (thought to be ecstasy) in his pocket... where did you hear that he had pills?

Being very pedantic here. Ok substitute a pill for tablet, whats the difference?

FYI: Tablet (pharmacy), a mixture of pharmacological substances pressed into a small cake or bar, colloquially called a "pill"

[AndrewP6]

I think the question of pill vs pills was the number found on him, not an issue of semantics.

[jeemak]

My two bobs, either its peer pressure, or they have a problem in life, ie they can't enjoy life without being high.

We all have our problems, not all of us turn to drugs to deal with them. Some members of society do though and they need our understanding and protection.

Escapism is forever evolving though, and removing or criminalising drugs isn't the way to stop people trying to escape from their every day lives. If drugs are a scourge on society, perhaps we all need to look at the areas within our society that make people want to escape from it.

Bare in mind though there's also a demographic that takes drugs because they enjoy them, otherwise living a balanced lifestyle. I think it's fairly presumptuous and narrow to assume they have a problem because they can't enjoy their life enough without getting high.

Viewing those who enjoy drugs as criminals and problematic personalities hasn't worked for the last 40 years. I really fail to see how it's going to turn a corner and start working for the next 40.

Anyway back to Tom. I hope he trains his arse off without having the match day wear and tear to worry about over the next month. He has a chance to get some serious conditioning up prior to the end of season break. He owes it to himself, his family and the broader club to come back prior to Christmas for the start of preseason in magnificent shape.

[Twodogs]

My two bobs, either its peer pressure, or they have a problem in life, ie they can't enjoy life without being high.


You dont enjoy life when you are drug affected. It just helps to cope/hide/screen stuff out.

[MrMahatma]

You dont enjoy life when you are drug affected. It just helps to cope/hide/screen stuff out.
I think you're over thinking it. He got high. Like his mates. Prob no more than that.

[bornadog]

I think you're over thinking it. He got high. Like his mates. Prob no more than that.

Pretty sure Twodogs is talking in general about drugs.

[Ghost Dog]

We all have our problems, not all of us turn to drugs to deal with them. Some members of society do though and they need our understanding and protection.

Escapism is forever evolving though, and removing or criminalising drugs isn't the way to stop people trying to escape from their every day lives. If drugs are a scourge on society, perhaps we all need to look at the areas within our society that make people want to escape from it.

Bare in mind though there's also a demographic that takes drugs because they enjoy them, otherwise living a balanced lifestyle. I think it's fairly presumptuous and narrow to assume they have a problem because they can't enjoy their life enough without getting high.

Viewing those who enjoy drugs as criminals and problematic personalities hasn't worked for the last 40 years. I really fail to see how it's going to turn a corner and start working for the next 40.

Anyway back to Tom. I hope he trains his arse off without having the match day wear and tear to worry about over the next month. He has a chance to get some serious conditioning up prior to the end of season break. He owes it to himself, his family and the broader club to come back prior to Christmas for the start of preseason in magnificent shape.

It's a cultural thing. when I first came to Melbourne I was shocked at the casual way people take drugs. I'm a teacher, TAFE level and a few blokes here talk about drug taking as though it's like putting another shrimp on the barbie. So for a young bloke, with plenty of pocket money, in that culture of dance and what not, no big deal. If the club don't make him work a normal blue collar job, I'll be disappointed. It will be good for him. Recently I started cleaning at a supermarket. When you make a pittance an hour, you certainly become aware of how the other half live and have a bit more respect for what you have.

[Twodogs]

I think you're over thinking it. He got high. Like his mates. Prob no more than that.

I hope you're right. The fact he was alone when the police found him worries me as does the fact he was out of it but still had a pill in his pocket. People who only take drugs as recreational thing dont tend to do it by themselves. If his mates shot through when they realised the police were about to get involved then that's OK but if Libba is hanging around clubs after everyone else has gone home then that's classic addict behaviour. And if he was already of it and still had a pill in his pocket was that pill for later? Addicts like to know that you've got some more.

I really, truly hope I'm wrong.



It's a cultural thing. when I first came to Melbourne I was shocked at the casual way people take drugs.

Spot on. It's scary the amount of drugs there are in Melbourne and how normal it is to take them. When I stopped I virtually had to reconstruct my entire social network.

[LostDoggy]

It's a cultural thing. when I first came to Melbourne I was shocked at the casual way people take drugs. I'm a teacher, TAFE level and a few blokes here talk about drug taking as though it's like putting another shrimp on the barbie. So for a young bloke, with plenty of pocket money, in that culture of dance and what not, no big deal.

It was the same 20 years ago when I was at school. It hasn't changed and Libba isn't unique. He definitely needs to reassess his friends from school v his footy career though. High chance if he chooses the former this is going to keep happening in coming years and he'll end up getting kicked out of the afl. That would be a tragedy.

[jeemak]

I hope you're right. The fact he was alone when the police found him worries me as does the fact he was out of it but still had a pill in his pocket. People who only take drugs as recreational thing dont tend to do it by themselves. If his mates shot through when they realised the police were about to get involved then that's OK but if Libba is hanging around clubs after everyone else has gone home then that's classic addict behaviour. And if he was already of it and still had a pill in his pocket was that pill for later? Addicts like to know that you've got some more.

I really, truly hope I'm wrong.

Spot on. It's scary the amount of drugs there are in Melbourne and how normal it is to take them. When I stopped I virtually had to reconstruct my entire social network.

Not sure he was alone. Pretty sure he had a couple of mates with him, one or two from the club, and a few others.

[Ghost Dog]

Not sure he was alone. Pretty sure he had a couple of mates with him, one or two from the club, and a few others.

Really? there were other blokes from the club with him?

[ledge]

I heard it was mates outside the club , a bit similar to what I have heard about Buddy Franklin, it's his mates outside the club who are leading him astray.

[jeemak]

Really? there were other blokes from the club with him?

Yeah, it's been widely reported.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/liberatore-in-doghouse-after-city-bender-20120806-23qf0.html

[Twodogs]

Yeah, it's been widely reported.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/liberatore-in-doghouse-after-city-bender-20120806-23qf0.html


If that's how it went down then that's not so bad.




Yet, off the field, this incident has uncovered what some club officials fear is an underlying issue about the friendships he has retained from St Kevin's College

St Kevin's had a particularly bad reputation for drugs in the '70s and '80s. I dont know what the situation is now though.

[bornadog]

St Kevin's had a particularly bad reputation for drugs in the '70s and '80s. I dont know what the situation is now though.

My daughter, (now first year at Uni), who went to a private school in the area says most private school boys try drugs. If you think that is a sweeping statement, well I can tell you, the kids that go to the private schools in Hawthorn/Kew area, all know each other (particularly in their year levels).

As a parent this is very concerning especially now that she is over 18 and going out to clubs. However, the girls/boys she goes out with all look out for each other.

[jeemak]

My daughter, (now first year at Uni), who went to a private school in the area says most private school boys try drugs. If you think that is a sweeping statement, well I can tell you, the kids that go to the private schools in Hawthorn/Kew area, all know each other (particularly in their year levels).

As a parent this is very concerning especially now that she is over 18 and going out to clubs. However, the girls/boys she goes out with all look out for each other.

Kids that go to private schools take drugs for sure, and kids that go to state schools also give it a crack.

The difference is in the drugs they sample. Rich kids take higher quality drugs, and poorer kids take lower quality ones.

[Mofra]

The difference is in the drugs they sample. Rich kids take higher quality drugs, and poorer kids take lower quality ones.
I'm not sure it's that simple - I'd be more inclined to say in my experience 80% of Gen Y dabble, 19% lie about it, and 1% avoid it.
Quality is never assured unless someone uses regularly and has a few contacts rather than 1 or 2

[LostDoggy]

I'm not sure it's that simple - I'd be more inclined to say in my experience 80% of Gen Y dabble, 19% lie about it, and 1% avoid it.
Quality is never assured unless someone uses regularly and has a few contacts rather than 1 or 2

Agree. I was a poorer kid and I tried a few different types. The expensive and the cheap. Nothing really did it for me though, much prefer your bog-standard beer.

[Twodogs]

Kids that go to private schools take drugs for sure, and kids that go to state schools also give it a crack.

The difference is in the drugs they sample. Rich kids take higher quality drugs, and poorer kids take lower quality ones.


I'm not sure it's that simple - I'd be more inclined to say in my experience 80% of Gen Y dabble, 19% lie about it, and 1% avoid it.
Quality is never assured unless someone uses regularly and has a few contacts rather than 1 or 2


Agree. I was a poorer kid and I tried a few different types. The expensive and the cheap. Nothing really did it for me though, much prefer your bog-standard beer.


I loved speed. But that was back when it was plentiful and cheap. I couldnt believe how expensive coke was.