Doug Hawkins slams Western Bulldogs' isolation of Tom Liberatore

[bornadog]

Link (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/doug-hawkins-slams-western-bulldogs-isolation-of-tom-liberatore/story-e6frf9jf-1226448295588)

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2012/08/06/1226443/975628-tom-liberatore.jpg


DOUG Hawkins has lashed out at the Western Bulldogs' leadership group, claiming they have "turned their back" on young midfielder Tom Liberatore.

The Bulldogs legend supported the decision to ban Liberatore for the rest of the season after he was found intoxicated and in possession of an ecstasy tablet early last Sunday.

But Hawkins is furious the 20-year-old has been banished from the Whitten Oval, leaving him unable to train with his teammates.

"I'm absolutely filthy with the way they have handled young 'Libba'," he said yesterday. "I don't mind the four-week ban and not playing again for the rest of the season. The kid was in the wrong and he made a very bad mistake.

"But what I am angry about is how the Bulldogs' leadership group and the club have told him he cannot train with his teammates."

Hawkins said not letting Liberatore train was "totally wrong" and could leave him feeling isolated.

"He is only 20, he's had a ripper year, he could be a 250-game player of the club like his dad was, and he could possibly be a captain one day," he said.

"But when your mate does something wrong, you put your arms around them and say, 'We are going to help you get through this'.

"You don't burn them. You don't turn your back on them when they really need you. He can't train with them; he can't be with them. He can't get near the joint.

"He's an intelligent kid who made a bad mistake. He is hurting and the thing he needs most is to have his mates - his 'brothers' - around him.

"I just think he should have been better supported."

Hawkins was annoyed by Bulldog defender Robert Murphy's comments on Fox Footy that Liberatore was "in a dark place".

Hawkins said the youngster deserved better, with the highly-rated Bulldog being instructed to undergo counselling as well as work in a different occupation for the next six weeks.

"I know people are going say, 'You are being old-fashioned, Dougie', but I would rather be old-fashioned if it means sticking by your mates," he said.

"Don't say this has to happen because it worked for Geelong with Steve Johnson a few years ago.

"It's a completely different kettle of fish.

"This kid needed the help and support of his mates.

"That's more important than getting him to go out and spend six weeks working somewhere else."

Hawkins said he felt for Liberatore's father, Tony, who played 283 games for the Bulldogs between 1988-2002, winning a Brownlow Medal in 1990.

"If I was Tony, I would be filthy," Hawkins said. "He is like a brother to me.

"I loved playing footy with him because of his passion and love of the club and his teammates.

"You knew he would go to war with you if he had to.

"And that's why it makes me so mad that this leadership group has turned their back on one of their own."

[Remi Moses]

By all accounts it was Tom 's "Friends" who got him into trouble.
Important lesson that if you muck up you'll lose a position some kids would give an arm and a leg for.

[jeemak]

Pretty sure Tom's friends aren't to blame. Only Tom is.

And Dougie needs to move out of the dark ages. As much as I love him, he's completely off the mark with this one.

Tom's made an arse of himself, and the club. I personally think he's gotten off lightly.

[LostDoggy]

I think you two are miss reading what Hawk is trying to say. Should never been left alone by his teammates.

[westdog54]

I think you two are miss reading what Hawk is trying to say. Should never been left alone by his teammates.

Has that necessarily happened though?

Even though he is no longer training I'd be stunned if he is having no contact with, or support from, the club and his teammates through the next four weeks.

I can see where Hawk is coming from but at the end of the day he's speaking from an outsider's perspective and doesn't really know what's happening internally.

[GVGjr]

I think you two are miss reading what Hawk is trying to say. Should never been left alone by his teammates.

I don't think this is the case. His team mates have a job to do and it has been deemed that Tom shouldn't be around them when they are at work. I don't think his team mates have shut him out. They're footballers not counselors and they need to focus on what they need to do. Tom would be receiving a lot of support from the club.

[Ghost Dog]

Has he been banned from Whitten Oval?

[LostDoggy]

Fair enough. Just think his teammates should not only been there til the end and questioned what he was doing prior.
This a failure of the club not just the player.

[MrMahatma]

Has he been banned from Whitten Oval?
Reads that way. I'm with Doug if that's the case. Silly.

[westdog54]

Fair enough. Just think his teammates should not only been there til the end and questioned what he was doing prior.
This a failure of the club not just the player.

Not disagreeing there.

If teammates have left him in that situation to fend for himself then they've got a lot to answer for, but at the end of the day he's primarily responsible for his actions.

[chef]

Reads that way. I'm with Doug if that's the case. Silly.

Isn't it about showing what he's got and what he could lose that is why he's not allowed at the club.

[LostDoggy]

Fair enough. Just think his teammates should not only been there til the end and questioned what he was doing prior.
This a failure of the club not just the player.

How can you say this is a failure of the club? These guys don't have full time minders. None of us know how it all went down. It's not inconceivable that he might have been a bit pissed, decided he needed air and took himself outside unbeknown to the people he was out with. I'm filthy that Doug Hawkins has decided to go public and lash the club at a time when he and everyone else knows that the club really doesn't need it. Potting Murph is low too. What Doug needs to realise is that Tom didn't just have a few too many beers, he was caught with drugs. This would get you in a fair bit of trouble with the law in most states in this country and it will get you killed in some other countries. These are not just mates kicking the ball around together on the weekend, these guys are professionals, it's their well paid occupation. To say he's been abandoned is a bit steep as I'm sure he's being given abundant support from the club.

[GVGjr]

Fair enough. Just think his teammates should not only been there til the end and questioned what he was doing prior.
This a failure of the club not just the player.

His mates might let him down and one or two of them might be team mates but you make your own decisions in life. I don't think it's cut and dry that young footballers necessarily have the social skills to stop others from making bad decisions.
To put the onus on his employer for what he does away from them is drawing a long bow in my opinion.
If you are pointing the finger at the club at what point does his own family come into consideration?

Tom will be supported by the club and provided a level of counseling and support that few others with similar issues will be given. You might look at him as a victim but I think he's very privileged to be given such a level of support for the mistake that he has made.
He has every chance to turn this whole experience into a positive but ultimately the ball is still in his court.

[Ghost Dog]

Does he have any known offences against his name already?

[Maddog37]

How many flags did Doug win with his stick by your mates theory?

It takes discipline and hard choices to be successful. Libba and everyone else now knows the score. If you stuff up you pay the price. We will not win flags without complete professionalism and sacrifice.

Doug is genuine but s easily manipulated by the media.

[Mitcha]

Love the Hawk but getting a bit jacked off that whenever there is an issue at the club, the media run to him as the club spokesman, stuck in the 80s and not the sharpest tool in the shed is our Douggie.

[Hotdog60]

Didn't Dougie have a fondness for the turps in his days, granted different time, different professionalism.

Times have changed and the players need to realise that they are under a lot of scrutiny and need to behave in a high standard or they will be crucified.

[LostDoggy]

How can you say this is a failure of the club? These guys don't have full time minders. None of us know how it all went down. It's not inconceivable that he might have been a bit pissed, decided he needed air and took himself outside unbeknown to the people he was out with. I'm filthy that Doug Hawkins has decided to go public and lash the club at a time when he and everyone else knows that the club really doesn't need it. Potting Murph is low too. What Doug needs to realise is that Tom didn't just have a few too many beers, he was caught with drugs. This would get you in a fair bit of trouble with the law in most states in this country and it will get you killed in some other countries. These are not just mates kicking the ball around together on the weekend, these guys are professionals, it's their well paid occupation. To say he's been abandoned is a bit steep as I'm sure he's being given abundant support from the club.

It a failure of the club because you go out in town, you look after your teammates.
Heard that line from other clubs as well.
I never said he isn't responsible but a bit of protection from those close would have diffused the situation.

[LostDoggy]

How many flags did Doug win with his stick by your mates theory?
.

Won plenty at other clubs. Ask west coast for one

[EasternWest]

It a failure of the club because you go out in town, you look after your teammates.
Heard that line from other clubs as well.
I never said he isn't responsible but a bit of protection from those close would have diffused the situation.

Not sure about this. I'd imagine we've all been out with that pissed mate that refuses to listen to you and eventually you've had enough.

If Libba is the party boy he's been made out to be, maybe he gets bellicose/belligerent and uncooperative (I'm speculating).

I don't blame the teammates that were no longer with him.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hanging Libba over it either, but he's done the wrong thing and I hope he learns from it.


Won plenty at other clubs. Ask west coast for one

Lolwut?

[jeemak]

It a failure of the club because you go out in town, you look after your teammates.
Heard that line from other clubs as well.
I never said he isn't responsible but a bit of protection from those close would have diffused the situation.

Yeah, because smashed folk in their 20's are so reasonable. Some stern words form his team mates would have set him straight.

[AndrewP6]

Does he have any known offences against his name already?

Don't believe so.

[AndrewP6]

Has he been banned from Whitten Oval?

Yep.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah, because smashed folk in their 20's are so reasonable. Some stern words form his team mates would have set him straight.

So just let him fend for himself then. Self-preservation mode.
It not like this stuff carries on to ground does it?
Nor is it in their interest(alongside a good player).

I said/meant it might have disfused the situation.

[Maddog37]

So just let him fend for himself then. Self-preservation mode.
It not like this stuff carries on to ground does it?
Nor is it in their interest(alongside a good player).

I said/meant it might have disfused the situation.


I think you have completely missed the point of the article.

[LostDoggy]

I think you have completely missed the point of the article.
and you have completely missed my point.
I have already acknowledge I may have read Hawkins message differently.

[Remi Moses]

I think you two are miss reading what Hawk is trying to say. Should never been left alone by his teammates.

Surprise you haven't blamed the coach?:rolleyes:
Does he have to be babysat?

[Maddog37]

Chops,

So are you still saying Hawkins was referring to the night itself?

And yes I do not understand your point.....can you expand on what it is?

[GVGjr]

Fair enough. Just think his teammates should not only been there til the end and questioned what he was doing prior.
This a failure of the club not just the player.

So one in all in? When one person is being silly and out past a reasonable time to be getting home everyone else should stay with him?
Isn't that the job of his parents and family not his mates or his employer?
The best thing to happen to him is being caught. Now he can get professional help not just mates covering for him.

[LostDoggy]

Surprise you haven't blamed the coach?:rolleyes:
Does he have to be babysat?

More surprised it took you so long to repeat youre bagging of me.
God forgive I say something slightly negative.
We must all be positive cos we are going so well.

[LostDoggy]

So one in all in? When one person is being silly and out past a reasonable time to be getting home everyone else should stay with him?
Isn't that the job of his parents and family not his mates or his employer?
The best thing to happen to him is being caught. Now he can get professional help not just mates covering for him.

Where did i say covering for him?

[LostDoggy]

Chops,

So are you still saying Hawkins was referring to the night itself?

And yes I do not understand your point.....can you expand on what it is?

Maybe you should read it again then

[Maddog37]

Maybe you should read it again then


My questions were genuine but if you do not have the time to answer then fair enough.

[LostDoggy]

My questions were genuine but if you do not have the time to answer then fair enough.

I do not have time to explain 3 times to you. Fair enough.

[Maddog37]

Ok I will take that as you are just being antagonistic for the sake of it and that you misinterpreted the article from the start.

[GVGjr]

Where did i say covering for him?

Never said that you did but you are wanting his team mates to stay out as long as Tom wanted/needed them. I think it shows a better test of character for young people to exercise their own judgement about what is acceptable behavior.
I get that you are pointing the finger at the club (and the player) but I just don't agree with it.

Doug wants him to continue to train at the club, well I think the most professional advice available is indicating that it wouldn't be the right thing for Tom.

[LostDoggy]

Dont usually agree with Dougs comments but I do on this one. The bloke has stufed up and been suspended ...... but to be isolated from the club and players is not going to help one bit. A young fellow in this position needs some support and encouragement ... not banishment.

Furthermore, are the leadership group actually have any professional experience in welfare or phsycology?

I reckon a few of them would serve the club better if they went and practiced their kicking skills instead of dishing out ridiculous punishments.

[bornadog]

I think the club is in the best position to work out what is the right punishment, We are not talking about amateur hour here, the club would have sought professional assistance before they made a decision.

[LostDoggy]

I think the club is in the best position to work out what is the right punishment, We are not talking about amateur hour here, the club would have sought professional assistance before they made a decision.

From what I understand though, the leadership group decided upon the punishment.

[Remi Moses]

More surprised it took you so long to repeat youre bagging of me.
God forgive I say something slightly negative.
We must all be positive cos we are going so well.

So what's your answer?
Ignore it?
The problem is your always F****** negative!
Do you want the coach replaced?

[Mantis]

I think the club is in the best position to work out what is the right punishment, We are not talking about amateur hour here, the club would have sought professional assistance before they made a decision.

Are you living in dreamland?

[LostDoggy]

So what's your answer?
Ignore it?
The problem is your always F****** negative!
Do you want the coach replaced?

The problem is you have are mistaken the teams performances with my views.
The results speak for themselves.

[bornadog]

Are you living in dreamland?

Does the club have access to a Psychologist?

[KT31]

Yeah, because smashed folk in their 20's are so reasonable. Some stern words form his team mates would have set him straight.

Maybe even a spot in a boxing ring would be a lesson well taught.;)

[Remi Moses]

The problem is you have are mistaken the teams performances with my views.
The results speak for themselves.

Great political answer chops! WTF does it mean?
So if chops was CEO we'd have a new coach?
Personally think it's to early to make a call on the coach, like more time.

[LostDoggy]

Great political answer chops! WTF does it mean?
So if chops was CEO we'd have a new coach?
Personally think it's to early to make a call on the coach, like more time.

What do you want from me? Will you be happy if I said its all rosy?
What's the point changing the coach when there a number things wrong above and around him?

[jeemak]

Maybe even a spot in a boxing ring would be a lesson well taught.;)

Bashing the shit out of people is the best way to communicate with them!

[jeemak]

So just let him fend for himself then. Self-preservation mode.
It not like this stuff carries on to ground does it?
Nor is it in their interest(alongside a good player).

I said/meant it might have disfused the situation.


Chops, I am pretty sure the issue has been reported in a certain way that actually deviates from how it played out.

You can attempt to tie the issue to the club all you like, but basically Tom stuffed up, and left himself exposed.

[Desipura]

I think the club is in the best position to work out what is the right punishment, We are not talking about amateur hour here, the club would have sought professional assistance before they made a decision.
Well said, BAD. The coach is following a successful model that was used for the Cats, I initially had my doubts but feel more comfortable after hearing BMac speak about it in more depth.
Remi, lets stick to the topic. (where's the smiley emoticon?)

[Grantysghost]

Experience and research suggest that isolation is the worst possible solution in this type of scenario. This is the message Doug is trying to convey. Many psychologists that I know (who work with this scenario daily) totally agree and were actually appalled with the treatment.

[Mofra]

You can attempt to tie the issue to the club all you like, but basically Tom stuffed up, and left himself exposed.
He left himself exposed, but to assume he was a lone agent in the whole affair I think is off the mark. Other posters have questioned why he was left alone, and I agree - I'd never leave a mate, semi-conscious, on a footpath anywhere - let alone King St which is one of the most dangerous places I've ever been (including Nairobi :eek:)


Experience and research suggest that isolation is the worst possible solution in this type of scenario. This is the message Doug is trying to convey. Many psychologists that I know (who work with this scenario daily) totally agree and were actually appalled with the treatment.
Spot on - Libba has stuffed up but to make him the fall guy and leave him out on his own is wrong IMO

[MrMahatma]

Cam Ling seemed to support the decision.

Still feels wrong to me but I've never been a professional footballer.

[Ghost Dog]

Bashing the shit out of people is the best way to communicate with them!

Jeemak, Robert Walls says to say hello.
He wants to know if you'd like to see his own football educational theory in action?
ie: belt someone repeatedly until their ears bleed.

I would like to test out Robert Walls' football Educational theory ON Robert Walls.

[KT31]

Bashing the shit out of people is the best way to communicate with them!

Who said anything about bashing the shit out of him, but a good clip around the ears might make him take notice.

[bornadog]

Who said anything about bashing the shit out of him, but a good clip around the ears might make him take notice.

Mate are you living in the 70's.

[Maddog37]

Mate are you living in the 70's.

That's a great name for a song!:D

[Happy Days]

Does the club have access to a Psychologist?

If this is the case half the 20 year olds in Melbourne need a psychologist. Tom messed up, he's been punished accordingly, let's not over analyse this.

Seriously, does anyone actually think drug taking in the AFL is isolated to just one player?

[bornadog]

If this is the case half the 20 year olds in Melbourne need a psychologist. Tom messed up, he's been punished accordingly, let's not over analyse this.

Seriously, does anyone actually think drug taking in the AFL is isolated to just one player?

HD, did you actually read the sequence of posts? I was talking about the punishment.

All I said was the punishment that was dished out is not something plucked out of the sky and given. I made the comment that professional advise would have been sought by the club and I received a smart aleck response that I was in dreamland. So I asked the question whether we employ a psychologist.

[Mofra]

All I said was the punishment that was dished out is not something plucked out of the sky and given. I made the comment that professional advise would have been sought by the club
Do the leadership group consult profesionals before handing down decisions? I thought this was simply a decision of the playing group, nothing more.

[strebla]

I thought that Doug made a good point " mate you your not allowed to play but come down to train and we will look after you" is what I thought he mean't and I agree with him.

[bornadog]

Do the leadership group consult profesionals before handing down decisions? I thought this was simply a decision of the playing group, nothing more.

That could be the case as well, but I would be very disappointed if that is the case. Surely the leadership group wouldn't come up with those sort of ideas for a punishment, ie playing ban, keep away from the club and go and work full time for 6 weeks. I cannot imagine that players would come up with that. I would say the club would have made some of those decisions.

I doubt the Collingwood leadership group would go to that extent with Swan, they came up with a playing ban, which is what our guys would have come up with.

[AndrewP6]

That could be the case as well, but I would be very disappointed if that is the case. Surely the leadership group wouldn't come up with those sort of ideas for a punishment, ie playing ban, keep away from the club and go and work full time for 6 weeks. I cannot imagine that players would come up with that. I would say the club would have made some of those decisions.

I doubt the Collingwood leadership group would go to that extent with Swan, they came up with a playing ban, which is what our guys would have come up with.

Dunno, I could easily see them coming up with it.

[Maddog37]

Dunno, I could easily see them not coming up with it themselves.

[AndrewP6]

Dunno, I could easily see them not coming up with it themselves.

Haha.. touche! I just think they show a fondness for getting out big sticks to whack people with.

[Maddog37]

I feel (with no great conviction or basis) that they slavishly copy all things Geelong.

[KT31]

I feel (with no great conviction or basis) that they slavishly copy all things Geelong.

Wish they would copy their Premierships.

[LostDoggy]

It a failure of the club because you go out in town, you look after your teammates.
Heard that line from other clubs as well.
I never said he isn't responsible but a bit of protection from those close would have diffused the situation.

No, it would have covered it up to be played out again at a later date, maybe a few orders of magnitude worse.

“I don't need to take responsibility for how smashed I get tonight, because so and so teammates are gonna look after me.”

We have absolutely no idea how many times it has happened in the past (if any — like others here, this is pure speculation) and perhaps his teammates got sick of backing him up only to do it again next week.


I thought that Doug made a good point " mate you your not allowed to play but come down to train and we will look after you" is what I thought he mean't and I agree with him.

I'd rather “you are our mate and where you are wronged, we've got your back all the way, but if you f**k up you're hurting us all, and if you can't change your actions to help us all as a team, then why should we have your back?”

[LostDoggy]

Welcome to last week BAS