Match Committee- Round 21 vs Sydney [Archive]

jazzadogs

12-08-2012, 07:02 PM

Griffen obviously to come back in and Williams if available.

Hard to know who should be omitted but I would go with Hooper and Skinner.
If we have some more players available I'd look at giving Campbell a spell.
Not sure if Griffen is 'obviously' going to come back in. Back spasms would most likely be related to some hamstring tightness, I wouldn't be upset if they don't risk him.

I only saw the second half today due to work...Roberts and Jong acquitted themselves well, DJ Hooper and Sherman were all pretty disappointing.

Remi Moses

12-08-2012, 07:10 PM

In Wood Williams Panos Griffen( 2subject to fitness)
Out- Hooper DJ Skinner Campbell
Any word on Higgins?

Remi Moses

12-08-2012, 07:13 PM

Hooper is too slow and unfit.

Agree Hooper, DJ and Skinner and throw in Sherman as well.
Reckon that was one of our most inexperienced side I've seen.

Nuggety Back Pocket

12-08-2012, 07:56 PM

In: Griffen, Williams, Wood

Out: DJ, Hooper and Campbell

Did you miss Grant and Sherman. They were disgraceful today. Campbell should be retained as his ruck work against Maric was better than Will's.

westbulldog

12-08-2012, 08:02 PM

In Griffin Williams Wood Panos
Out Sherman Hooper Skinner Campbell

Nuggety Back Pocket

12-08-2012, 08:13 PM

In Griffin Williams Wood Panos
Out Sherman Hooper Skinner Campbell

Why not Pearce for Grant who was terrible today. Rarely lays a tackle but misses plenty.

westbulldog

12-08-2012, 08:27 PM

Why not Pearce for Grant who was terrible today. Rarely lays a tackle but misses plenty.

Well put in YOUR complete ins and outs, thats what the thread is for.

LostDoggy

12-08-2012, 08:40 PM

Any word on Higgins?

Here is 3: attitude dominates ability.;)

Greystache

12-08-2012, 08:53 PM

In- Wood, Pearce, Panos , Griffen, Higgins

Out- Sherman, DJ, Hooper, Skinner, Hargrave

bornadog

12-08-2012, 09:10 PM

Did you miss Grant and Sherman. They were disgraceful today. Campbell should be retained as his ruck work against Maric was better than Will's.

Campbell had three hitouts and 5 disposals. I don't think he will make it on the senior list next year.

LostDoggy

12-08-2012, 09:15 PM

Did you miss Grant and Sherman. They were disgraceful today. Campbell should be retained as his ruck work against Maric was better than Will's.

Your kidding I hope. The guy was subbed because he couldnt get near it.
Never has a players reputation been built so high from a couple of contested marks in a practice match.

G-Mo77

12-08-2012, 09:23 PM

Not fussed on the small changes. Wood will come in so will Griff and maybe Higgins. Who for, don't know, don't really care to much either. I just want to see Panos in, Williams CHF, Grant HFF/FP.

Eastdog

12-08-2012, 10:13 PM

JohnGentStand

12-08-2012, 11:57 PM

Ins
Griffen, Wood, Cordy, Williams

Outs
DJ, Campbell, Hargrave, Talia

Prince Imperial

13-08-2012, 12:24 AM

Mmm, hard to know who will be fit but being optimistic:

In: Griffen, Williams, Higgins, Wood, Pearce

Out: Hooper, Djerrkura, Sherman, Hargrave, Campbell - along with Grant our worst players today and all have few credits in the bank.

Desipura

13-08-2012, 06:57 AM

Campbell had three hitouts and 5 disposals. I don't think he will make it on the senior list next year.

You just might be surprised.

Mantis

13-08-2012, 07:28 AM

You just might be surprised.

Now that Roughead is playing in defence and Cordy is seen as a tall forward we need Campbell as back up for Minson.... But that's dependent upon our re-signing of Will.

LostDoggy

13-08-2012, 07:38 AM

Now that Roughead is playing in defence and Cordy is seen as a tall forward we need Campbell as back up for Minson.... But that's dependent upon our re-signing of Will.

I heard that Cordy played ruck Saturday.
Given that preseason we were told Campbell is going to be the next Coleman we must keep him. Unfortunately its not John or even Glenn but more likely Jonathan Coleman.

westdog54

13-08-2012, 07:53 AM

I heard that Cordy played ruck Saturday.
Given that preseason we were told Campbell is going to be the next Coleman we must keep him. Unfortunately its not John or even Glenn but more likely Jonathan Coleman.

I know that there were a few that got a bit over-excited over his preseason game, but statements like that are plain silly.

Yes, he's struggled in most of the games he's played in. A 21 yo ruckman with only one AFL pre-season under his belt, I think he gets a pass mark for the year and I believe his form during the season suggests he will be a quality player going forward.

FrediKanoute

13-08-2012, 07:59 AM

Your kidding I hope. The guy was subbed because he couldnt get near it.
Never has a players reputation been built so high from a couple of contested marks in a practice match.

Agree. I don't see it with Campbell. Not yet anyway. Another year on the rookie list would be fine by me.

Desipura

13-08-2012, 08:56 AM

Now that Roughead is playing in defence and Cordy is seen as a tall forward we need Campbell as back up for Minson.... But that's dependent upon our re-signing of Will.
Roughy has been good the last 2 weeks hasn't he? More so against Nth, but kept at it with Jack even though he was getting soundly beaten early on. Certainly surprised me.

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 09:12 AM

Roughy has been good the last 2 weeks hasn't he? More so against Nth, but kept at it with Jack even though he was getting soundly beaten early on. Certainly surprised me.

I don't think Roughy could have defended better. Reiwoldt ( I need a nickname for this *(%$# can anyone think of one? ) needed to have his run blocked a bit better. You can see it in slow mo; several times Roughy almost got his fist to the ball from behind. Did ok.

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 09:15 AM

Griffen obviously to come back in and Williams if available.

Hard to know who should be omitted but I would go with Hooper and Skinner.
If we have some more players available I'd look at giving Campbell a spell.

Skinner had some one percenters that I liked. I agree, he could do with a spell, but I thought he did some good things. But needs much much more than that to stay on the list. His marking is a real concern.

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 09:17 AM

Would you say Skinner's spot in the side is safe or in trouble. I thought in the 3rd qtr he was quite good but obviously you have to be good throughout the game. We are at the rock bottom period right now so I don't think it can get any worse. Hopefully it is going slowly upwards from here.

Nice jump to thump the ball as the third man up. When he's on the mark, very hard to kick over.
was chasing very hard. Terrible easy marking misses however undo all the good work.

bornadog

13-08-2012, 09:17 AM

You just might be surprised.

I think he may stay on the rookie list.

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 09:18 AM

We are going to be killed by Sydney...

G-Mo77

13-08-2012, 09:22 AM

We are going to be killed by Sydney...

There's an understatement. :)

Mofra

13-08-2012, 09:38 AM

Yes, he's struggled in most of the games he's played in. A 21 yo ruckman with only one AFL pre-season under his belt, I think he gets a pass mark for the year and I believe his form during the season suggests he will be a quality player going forward.
He's a no 1 ruck, as is Minson.

We couldn't play Minson & Huddo in the same side, and I feel the same way about Campbell & Minson - you can only select one in any given week.
Cordy gives us more forward than Campbell does.

IMO Campbell deserves to be re-rookied, I don't want us to follow the Mulligan 3 year contract debarcle.

Dazza

13-08-2012, 09:56 AM

Out - Dj, Hooper, Sherman, Hargrave

In - Doesn't matter.

G-Mo77

13-08-2012, 10:54 AM

Last home game of the season. Could this be Shaggy and Gilbee's last game for the club? I hate this time of year. Sad seeing loyal servants to the club depart. :(

If they do depart that is.

Remi Moses

13-08-2012, 11:11 AM

Gotta agree with Chops on this.
Fair degree of giddiness with Campbell early doors.
Give Panos a gig, Pleeease!

Cyberdoggie

13-08-2012, 11:21 AM

I don't think Roughy could have defended better. Reiwoldt ( I need a nickname for this *(%$# can anyone think of one? ) needed to have his run blocked a bit better. You can see it in slow mo; several times Roughy almost got his fist to the ball from behind. Did ok.

I thought it was a bad matchup.
Good experience for Roughead but he's not very quick and doesn't have any real burst speed of acceleration, making it hard for him to play on a player like Riewoldt who can be quick out of the blocks. I felt Roughead was reacting as opposed to being pro-active in working out where the ball was going to be be. Lake is a good example of this, he beats his opponent because he knows from experience where to position himself and how to read the play. Roughead was just chasing tail all day.
I think he's shown a bit and is worth perservering with down back. Who knows it might give him the confidence to play forward sometime in the future.

bornadog

13-08-2012, 11:28 AM

Last home game of the season. Could this be Shaggy and Gilbee's last game for the club? I hate this time of year. Sad seeing loyal servants to the club depart. :(

If they do depart that is.

Should they get a fair well game?

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 11:30 AM

I thought it was a bad matchup.
Good experience for Roughead but he's not very quick and doesn't have any real burst speed of acceleration, making it hard for him to play on a player like Riewoldt who can be quick out of the blocks. I felt Roughead was reacting as opposed to being pro-active in working out where the ball was going to be be. Lake is a good example of this, he beats his opponent because he knows from experience where to position himself and how to read the play. Roughead was just chasing tail all day.
I think he's shown a bit and is worth perservering with down back. Who knows it might give him the confidence to play forward sometime in the future.

Fair enough. I guess it's a bit harsh to expect him to read the play like Lake does. The main problem was we gave them so much space to work in. They always seemed to have players without pressure free. Their forwards took massive leading runs.

azabob

13-08-2012, 12:57 PM

Nice jump to thump the ball as the third man up. When he's on the mark, very hard to kick over.
was chasing very hard. Terrible easy marking misses however undo all the good work.

Problem is GD Skinner still cannot give repeated efforts either chasing or on the lead and he still looks lost out on the field.

G-Mo77

13-08-2012, 02:52 PM

Should they get a fair well game?

We gave one to Callan Ward.

2 players that have played over 200 games each at the club warrants a send off IMO. We all say they shouldn't be getting games over this kid or that kid but after an awful season it would be good to say goodbye to 2 of our greats. It's not like we have anything to lose.

That is under the assumption they are going or retiring. I know Gilbee wants to go on again next year and someone mentioned Shaggy does as well.

LostDoggy

13-08-2012, 03:01 PM

I heard that Cordy played ruck Saturday.
Given that preseason we were told Campbell is going to be the next Coleman we must keep him. Unfortunately its not John or even Glenn but more likely Jonathan Coleman.

Sorry Chops but what do you expect from a 21 year old in his first season of AFL? Granted, some people did get excited during the pre-season but I would put that down to the fact that we usually struggle to unearth big men and people were looking for some hope. Give the kid a break and grant him some patience.

You are allowed to look at positives occassionally.

Ozza

13-08-2012, 03:12 PM

Seeing as this week is our last home game for the year - it would be appropriate for Hargrave and perhaps Gilbee to get a farewell game. All due respect to them for their careers - but you couldn't keep either on the list.

Personally, I would be dropping DJ, Sherman and Hooper - because all three can't play.

Would be bringing in Cordy for Campbell. Would be interested to see Campbell get a full AFL pre-season into him to see if he can make it. I'm not overly optimistic about him yet - fine with him getting another rookie spot - but elevated to Senior list I'm not on board with.

I'm staggered Panos didn't get an opportunity this season (at least so far)....every man and his dog has had a run for the Bulldogs this year and he hasn't been close.

bornadog

13-08-2012, 03:51 PM

Problem is GD Skinner still cannot give repeated efforts either chasing or on the lead and he still looks lost out on the field.

Only his second full AFL game. I thought he started contributing in the second half and should have had 3 goals on the board. If he can kick two three goals a week I would be happy to keep him in the team.

azabob

13-08-2012, 04:52 PM

Only his second full AFL game. I thought he started contributing in the second half and should have had 3 goals on the board. If he can kick two three goals a week I would be happy to keep him in the team.

The fitness is still a major issue.

It's kind of funny because the main reason you want Vespremi gone is his lack of fitness, yet Im ok to overlook that in favour of his other skills, and I want Skinner gone because of his lack of fitness.

Are we hypocrites much? ;)

bornadog

13-08-2012, 04:59 PM

The fitness is still a major issue.

It's kind of funny because the main reason you want Vespremi gone is his lack of fitness, yet Im ok to overlook that in favour of his other skills, and I want Skinner gone because of his lack of fitness.

Are we hypocrites much? ;) YES:D

I agree on the fitness with both, but I really believe Vez doesn't give us anything. He is not hard at the ball and lacks skill. His best attribute is his long kicking.

I am not sold on Skinner, because I don't know if he can kick the goals to justify his spot. What I am saying is IF he kicks two/three goals in a game, every week (say 50 a year) then he should be in.

azabob

13-08-2012, 05:06 PM

YES:D

I agree on the fitness with both, but I really believe Vez doesn't give us anything. He is not hard at the ball and lacks skill. His best attribute is his long kicking.

I am not sold on Skinner, because I don't know if he can kick the goals to justify his spot. What I am saying is IF he kicks two/three goals in a game, every week (say 50 a year) then he should be in.

So frustrating we have so many fringe types that only have one attribute rather than 3 or 4.

FrediKanoute

13-08-2012, 05:07 PM

YES:D

I agree on the fitness with both, but I really believe Vez doesn't give us anything. He is not hard at the ball and lacks skill. His best attribute is his long kicking.

I am not sold on Skinner, because I don't know if he can kick the goals to justify his spot. What I am saying is IF he kicks two/three goals in a game, every week (say 50 a year) then he should be in.

I think he can become this for us. To me it started to click a little yesterday. He was more involved in the game for longer periods. Yes 2nd efforts are wanting, but there is something about him that to me says persist.

The Bulldogs Bite

13-08-2012, 05:17 PM

I think he can become this for us. To me it started to click a little yesterday. He was more involved in the game for longer periods. Yes 2nd efforts are wanting, but there is something about him that to me says persist.

Interesting post.

I'll watch the replay later with interest given I've heard and read conflicting views on Skinner's game.

The question when it comes to Skinner, as I asked on another thread, is how long do we persist? How much time can we give him before we cut our losses? We know he's still raw, we know he's improved, but we also know he's still a very long way from becoming a solid AFL footballer.

LostDoggy

13-08-2012, 06:06 PM

Sorry Chops but what do you expect from a 21 year old in his first season of AFL? Granted, some people did get excited during the pre-season but I would put that down to the fact that we usually struggle to unearth big men and people were looking for some hope. Give the kid a break and grant him some patience.
I expected a better performance. I know he is young/inexperienced and he wasn't alone. My dig was those that pumped him up preseason.

You are allowed to look at positives occassionally.
Here we go again. I've written many positive thing even some about yesterday's game but people like you only notice the negative ones.

Desipura

13-08-2012, 06:34 PM

always right

13-08-2012, 06:58 PM

I think he can become this for us. To me it started to click a little yesterday. He was more involved in the game for longer periods. Yes 2nd efforts are wanting, but there is something about him that to me says persist.

I'll say it.......if he wasn't aboriginal he wouldn't have been given the games he has been. Yesterday's effort was an improvement but let's face it.....he's starting from a low base.

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 07:10 PM

I'll say it.......if he wasn't aboriginal he wouldn't have been given the games he has been. Yesterday's effort was an improvement but let's face it.....he's starting from a low base.

Ah well. Suppose I'll be the first to argue that point. Is Jin Long that much better? did Talia do that much more? Him being Aboriginal has nothing to do with it.

Maddog37

13-08-2012, 07:17 PM

I'll say it.......if he wasn't aboriginal he wouldn't have been given the games he has been. Yesterday's effort was an improvement but let's face it.....he's starting from a low base.

Can you expand on how him being aboriginal impacts the match committee decision?

always right

13-08-2012, 07:19 PM

Ah well. Suppose I'll be the first to argue that point. Is Jin Long that much better? did Talia do that much more? Him being Aboriginal has nothing to do with it.

People will assume I'm being racist...and I can't do much about that. I just think there is this ingrained desire to believe that there's something special about him.....because he's aboriginal. I'm no different in having that hope but I've come to realize he's just a nice young bloke who can jump a bit.

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 07:21 PM

People will assume I'm being racist...and I can't do much about that. I just think there is this ingrained desire to believe that there's something special about him.....because he's aboriginal. I'm no different in having that hope but I've come to realize he's just a nice young bloke who can jump a bit.

I doubt the recruiters would be blinded by his cultural background. Clearly they have taken a punt on him for a reason.
Their careers are made or broken by these sorts of decisions so I hardly think they are going to wear rose coloured glasses.

That aside, did you think Talia, Jong, or Grant had a better game? Answer that. Kicked a goal and could have easily had another.
I would say the converse. You are picking him out because he is aboriginal. He's not a great player in a not so great team. We have lots of players no better than him. Wish they would make him cut off that stupid rat tail.

always right

13-08-2012, 07:24 PM

That aside, did you think Talia or Jong had a better game?

I thought Talia struggled but I was encouraged by his first game....he's a competitor.

Jong was uncertain early on as you would expect. He did some nice things as the game progressed. Probably easier for a first gamer to play on ball and get involved.

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 07:31 PM

I thought Talia struggled but I was encouraged by his first game....he's a competitor.

Jong was uncertain early on as you would expect. He did some nice things as the game progressed. Probably easier for a first gamer to play on ball and get involved.

Skinner was better than Grant; showed more aggressive intent. Now that's depressing.

I liked Skinners' spoil on the mark. A lot of players just make a half arsed attempt. Liked his 3rd man up work. Kicked a goal. Stood up in the tackle to pass the ball off. Ran his guts out way out of the forward line when needed. think you are being a bit hard on him frankly. His hands are just not good enough. Worth another pre-season.

LostDoggy

13-08-2012, 07:38 PM

Skinner was better than Grant; showed more aggressive intent. Now that's depressing.
Take off your rose colour glasses.
That's simply not true. Grant had 17 touches playing out of position. Skinner 12 which included 3 gift frees.

always right

13-08-2012, 07:38 PM

Skinner was better than Grant; showed more aggressive intent. Now that's depressing.

I liked Skinners' spoil on the mark. A lot of players just make a half arsed attempt. Liked his 3rd man up work. Kicked a goal. Stood up in the tackle to pass the ball off. Ran his guts out way out of the forward line when needed. think you are being a bit hard on him frankly. His hands are just not good enough. Worth another pre-season.

Yep...although I thought Grant was actually pretty good in the first half...but I know what you're saying. With Grant we know he has talent...it's just the whole application thing. With Skinner I'm struggling to see what he has. I think the MC see this tall agile indigenous player and wonder if he will show something special. I'm still to see the signs.

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 07:44 PM

Yep...although I thought Grant was actually pretty good in the first half...but I know what you're saying. With Grant we know he has talent...it's just the whole application thing. With Skinner I'm struggling to see what he has. I think the MC see this tall agile indigenous player and wonder if he will show something special. I'm still to see the signs.

I don't know, a lot depends on if you watch a game on TV or at the ground. Often it is what a player does when they don't have the ball. I am guessing you didn't see the spoil I'm referring to or his chase efforts.
Would you give him another pre-season ? if not, who would you give his spot to?
He has three main issues as a player. All can be addressed over time IMO and that's the upside. the rest of our list is going to take a while to develop anyway, so while we have such an even spread of average-ness, see no harm in keeping a question mark over his head for a while.

Back to the game, Seems unfair we have to be mauled twice by Sydney in a season but play GWS and Gold Coast once.

always right

13-08-2012, 07:53 PM

I don't know, a lot depends on if you watch a game on TV or at the ground. Often it is what a player does when they don't have the ball. I am guessing you didn't see the spoil I'm referring to or his chase efforts.
Would you give him another pre-season ? if not, who would you give his spot to?
He has three main issues as a player. All can be addressed over time IMO and that's the upside. the rest of our list is going to take a while to develop anyway, so while we have such an even spread of average-ness, see no harm in keeping a question mark over his head for a while.

Back to the game, Seems unfair we have to be mauled twice by Sydney in a season but play GWS and Gold Coast once.

I was at the game....I'm always at the game:o

I saw what you're referring to. Good on him. I'd prefer to see clean hands and a penetrating kick.

Ghost Dog

13-08-2012, 08:21 PM

I was at the game....I'm always at the game:o

I saw what you're referring to. Good on him. I'd prefer to see clean hands and a penetrating kick.

I wasn't at the game unfortunately ( wasn't trying to claim superiority there, just making a general observation) , or maybe fortunately. so what I saw was very limited.

I think he may be dropped for the next game. Won't be fussed if he is picked either way. Only one way to find out if he is worthy of the jumper.

Kicking, you are so right. We suck. Sydney on the other hand are right up there, and will be piling on the inside 50s.
So what's the plan? I'd like to see Murphy in the forward line. If Brian can be thrown around so can he. At least it will draw one of their quality players to tag him.

Sockeye Salmon

13-08-2012, 11:27 PM

That aside, did you think Talia, Jong, or Grant had a better game? Answer that.

Just, clearly and OMG yes by a mile.

I agree with Always Right. There's this perception that indigenous players are always about to do something amazing. Skinner isn't. He can jump high but he's just not very good at football.

I don't care about the colour of his skin, I don't care about what hardships he's had to make it this far, all I care about is whether he can contribute to this football club. He can't.

Ghost Dog

14-08-2012, 12:17 AM

Just, clearly and OMG yes by a mile.

I agree with Always Right. There's this perception that indigenous players are always about to do something amazing. Skinner isn't. He can jump high but he's just not very good at football.

I don't care about the colour of his skin, I don't care about what hardships he's had to make it this far, all I care about is whether he can contribute to this football club. He can't.

I'm not going to touch the aboriginal issue.

If Skinner were able to consistently contribute this effort, ( two goals ) plus the goal instead of a point he kicked, and perhaps 2-3 more tackles, hitting around 17 possessions a game, would you be unhappy with that as a contribution?
2-3 goals, 3 tackles, 17 possessions, week in, week out for the rest of the season. It is certainly a realistic target, and not a bad return at all from such a limited base.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ylItbxbZj8g/UCkQUU-IQyI/AAAAAAAAB0E/wCd97WNKxIg/s1600/stats.JPG

Looking at the stats above, the most you could say that Jong, Skinner and Talia, ( keeping in mind they are new players,) all had 'average' influence respective of their positions on the field. Re your view of Skinner; where does this sentiment of never being able to contribute ever come from? Fitness is not great, but you would expect that. Certainly Dickson looks far more lethal. On paper however, his scoreboard influence was not better, and as a forward, that's what counts. I'm not sure where you are coming from with your comments SS. If Vezpremi had kicked 2 goals, 12 possessions, you would probably be giving him the 'pass' mark. For Skinner, if he reaches a slightly better performance ( highly realistic), then manages to maintain it, week in and week out for the rest of the season, that would be a 'pass' for the club's recruiters and a win for Skinner. No doubt about that.

LongWait

14-08-2012, 08:12 AM

I've got a feeling that Skinner will be retained for one more year, maybe as a rookie.

I think he is being judged fairly harshly by some on here. Zeph played in our forward line (surely the hardest gig in the AFL at the moment) and hit the scoreboard, applied defensive pressure and had as many or more disaposals than Addison, Campbell, Djerrkura, Hooper, Johannisen, Minson, Roberts, Roughead and Sherman.

Form in the VFL shouldn't be what Skinner is judged upon. What does he contribute at AFL level? Skinner's fate will be determined by his AFL contibutions; by his application to being a better player and playing the way the Coaches want; and by his upside potential. He must be ticking a few of these boxes so far in the eyes of the MC.

LostDoggy

14-08-2012, 09:08 AM

LostDoggy

14-08-2012, 09:23 AM

Looking at the stats above, the most you could say that Jong, Skinner and Talia, ( keeping in mind they are new players,) all had 'average' influence respective of their positions on the field. Re your view of Skinner; where does this sentiment of never being able to contribute ever come from? Fitness is not great, but you would expect that. Certainly Dickson looks far more lethal. On paper however, his scoreboard influence was not better, and as a forward, that's what counts. I'm not sure where you are coming from with your comments SS. If Vezpremi had kicked 2 goals, 12 possessions, you would probably be giving him the 'pass' mark. For Skinner, if he reaches a slightly better performance ( highly realistic), then manages to maintain it, week in and week out for the rest of the season, that would be a 'pass' for the club's recruiters and a win for Skinner. No doubt about that.

I think you will find Dickson's scoreboard influence was far superior to Skinners. Assists? Score involvements?

Skinner got a couple of opportunities and took them in what was one of the lowest standard games of football i've seen in awhile in terms of tackling and pressure. I'm not sure what the tackle count ended up, but at a guess very low for both sides.

If Skinner could kick he's 2 goals a game and have 15+ possessions as you suggest, then sure he would be worthy of being retained in the side. But I just cannot see it happening.

Mofra

14-08-2012, 09:34 AM

If Skinner were able to consistently contribute this effort, ( two goals ) plus the goal instead of a point he kicked, and perhaps 2-3 more tackles, hitting around 17 possessions a game, would you be unhappy with that as a contribution?
2-3 goals, 3 tackles, 17 possessions, week in, week out for the rest of the season. It is certainly a realistic target, and not a bad return at all from such a limited base.
Realistic target? he had a couple of soft frees to make up those scoring shots - he wont get that every week, let alone against a side that is a finalist (remembering Richmond aren't exactly a great side).

2-3 goals per game would have him as our leading goal-kicker for the year - does anyone think Skinner would be close to that?
I really don't think it's realistic to expect that of him.

Right now we need to cull hard given the possibility of rookie upgrades and the stated aim of having 5 picks in the top 50 (unless we are invovled in the GWS mini-draft).
If we're after X factor in the forwardline, we have Dahlhaus. If we're after consistency, we have Dickson & perhaps Gia depending on how he fronts up next year.
If we're after marking prowess, Skinner has the worst hands on the list - all of our developing talls are ahead of him.

He is an "almost" player and no disrespect to the kid, but we have far too many "almost" players on the list. I simply don't think we're in the position of being able to carry a host of fringe players on the list whilst stars get the job done - the luxury of the 2008-10 period is over.

Ghost Dog

14-08-2012, 09:36 AM

I think you will find Dickson's scoreboard influence was far superior to Skinners. Assists? Score involvements?

Skinner got a couple of opportunities and took them in what was one of the lowest standard games of football i've seen in awhile in terms of tackling and pressure. I'm not sure what the tackle count ended up, but at a guess very low for both sides.

If Skinner could kick he's 2 goals a game and have 15+ possessions as you suggest, then sure he would be worthy of being retained in the side. But I just cannot see it happening.

Reason why? We will have to wait and see.
Seems not logical to put a line through him at this early stage, as it would be with Fletcher, Jong, or other kids who have yet to really prove themselves. He's different, but that's nothing to do with measured performance over time and a fair assessment thereafter. Seem to recall posters saying Wallis would never make it, Dahlhaus was too small, etc etc.

Mofra

14-08-2012, 09:41 AM

Are the fans patient enough to wait another pre-season?
Seems very unfair to put a line through him at this early stage, as it would be with Fletcher, Jong, or other kids who have yet to really prove themselves. Seem to recall posters saying Wallis would never make it. Just takes a little more time to find out either way.
Zephi is 23 and the players you've noted there are 18-19 with the exception of Wallis at 20.
If he gets another pre-season I'll be hoping like hell he makes the grade; I just haven't seen anything to suggest he'll get there. Fumblers rarely improve their ball handling as time passes (DJ as an example).

Ghost Dog

14-08-2012, 09:53 AM

Realistic target? he had a couple of soft frees to make up those scoring shots - he wont get that every week, let alone against a side that is a finalist (remembering Richmond aren't exactly a great side).

2-3 goals per game would have him as our leading goal-kicker for the year - does anyone think Skinner would be close to that?
I really don't think it's realistic to expect that of him.

Right now we need to cull hard given the possibility of rookie upgrades and the stated aim of having 5 picks in the top 50 (unless we are invovled in the GWS mini-draft).
If we're after X factor in the forwardline, we have Dahlhaus. If we're after consistency, we have Dickson & perhaps Gia depending on how he fronts up next year.
If we're after marking prowess, Skinner has the worst hands on the list - all of our developing talls are ahead of him.

He is an "almost" player and no disrespect to the kid, but we have far too many "almost" players on the list. I simply don't think we're in the position of being able to carry a host of fringe players on the list whilst stars get the job done - the luxury of the 2008-10 period is over.

What's not realistic is to ask for consistency from a player who has just a couple of games to his name. he needs to be given the opportunities to show us what he can do. The time for these kinds of calls are not here as the season isn't over.

Ghost Dog

14-08-2012, 09:55 AM

Zephi is 23 and the players you've noted there are 18-19 with the exception of Wallis at 20.
If he gets another pre-season I'll be hoping like hell he makes the grade; I just haven't seen anything to suggest he'll get there. Fumblers rarely improve their ball handling as time passes (DJ as an example).

This is beyond the scope of the thread. It's too early for these speculative calls. Moving along.

Sockeye Salmon

14-08-2012, 10:45 AM

I'm not going to touch the aboriginal issue.

If Skinner were able to consistently contribute this effort, ( two goals ) plus the goal instead of a point he kicked, and perhaps 2-3 more tackles, hitting around 17 possessions a game, would you be unhappy with that as a contribution?
2-3 goals, 3 tackles, 17 possessions, week in, week out for the rest of the season. It is certainly a realistic target, and not a bad return at all from such a limited base.

On his performance Sunday? Absolutely not.

His first goal was a free when he was 3rd man up at the ruck. That simply wasn't a free - he got real lucky.

His point was also from a free (hands in the back) that I couldn't see in three replays - he got lucky again.

His 2nd goal was a 20m chip pass - the kind Panos gets on the end of two or three times a game (and I don't think Panos can play, either, but he's better than Skinner).

He took one mark where he lead up at the ball carrier. The rest of his touches were scratchy handballs.

His pathetic effort where he dropped an uncontested mark in our D50 was schoolboy stuff.

bornadog

14-08-2012, 10:54 AM

On his performance Sunday? Absolutely not.

His first goal was a free when he was 3rd man up at the ruck. That simply wasn't a free - he got real lucky.

His point was also from a free (hands in the back) that I couldn't see in three replays - he got lucky again.

His 2nd goal was a 20m chip pass - the kind Panos gets on the end of two or three times a game (and I don't think Panos can play, either, but he's better than Skinner).

He took one mark where he lead up at the ball carrier. The rest of his touches were scratchy handballs.

His pathetic effort where he dropped an uncontested mark in our D50 was schoolboy stuff.

I think two games in its hard to say whether he will make it. Lets see how he goes in the last few games and end of year the call can be made. I am not sold on him at this stage but prepared to wait to the end of year. I agree in your other post at least 10 players need to be delisted/traded.

Ghost Dog

14-08-2012, 12:44 PM

On his performance Sunday? Absolutely not.

His first goal was a free when he was 3rd man up at the ruck. That simply wasn't a free - he got real lucky.

His point was also from a free (hands in the back) that I couldn't see in three replays - he got lucky again.

His 2nd goal was a 20m chip pass - the kind Panos gets on the end of two or three times a game (and I don't think Panos can play, either, but he's better than Skinner).

He took one mark where he lead up at the ball carrier. The rest of his touches were scratchy handballs.

His pathetic effort where he dropped an uncontested mark in our D50 was schoolboy stuff.

You're missing the point SS. Ignore for a second what you saw on the field. Just saying, we get 2 goals, 12-15 possessions 3 tackles each game for the rest of the year. What then? Of course you would keep him. If that's not a benchmark, what is yours? A lot of the stuff you are saying is subjective. Panos is better than Skinner for example. Well who knows? I can point to a lot of things he did right, and it comes down to interpretation.

to bring it back to the thread, what would be your benchmark of KPIs for him V Sydney this week? Realistic expectations.

LongWait

14-08-2012, 03:01 PM

We should keep because he gets soft frees and flukey goals and that's going happen for ever.
Without 3 of softest frees, Skinners possession would have less than or equal to all of those listed except Minson who touched it more rucking, Roughead doing a stopping role and Campbell who didn't play a full game.
Judging by his afl form. He should be delisted.

I just piss myself laughing at your double standards: on the one hand you won't accept any excuses when assessing the coach (results speak for themselves) but you apply a different standard when assessing Skinner (results don't matter because Skinner got the goals and possessions in a less creditable way via free kicks that you think were soft.)

LostDoggy

14-08-2012, 03:03 PM

LongWait

14-08-2012, 03:15 PM

Unfortuantly for Skinner (and Panos for that manner) if both are played this week they are coming up against the best backline in the league IMO. We will really struggle to score against the swans.

If Skinner struggles against Sydney, which could easily happen, then that could be curtains for him.

I agree that Skinner is treading a fine line at the moment - on the edge of being given the bullet but just enough of a flicker of life that he might scrape through. A big three weeks for Zeph coming up.

Sockeye Salmon

14-08-2012, 03:19 PM

You're missing the point SS. Ignore for a second what you saw on the field. Just saying, we get 2 goals, 12-15 possessions 3 tackles each game for the rest of the year. What then? Of course you would keep him. If that's not a benchmark, what is yours? A lot of the stuff you are saying is subjective. Panos is better than Skinner for example. Well who knows? I can point to a lot of things he did right, and it comes down to interpretation.

to bring it back to the thread, what would be your benchmark of KPIs for him V Sydney this week? Realistic expectations.

I can't ignore what I've seen on the field, you can't unsee things. He simply is nowhere near the level required to play AFL football.

There is basically nothing he can do that will make me change my mind - because he can't do it. He is not capable. I don't want to see him perform against Sydney because I desperately want to see him out of the side.

I despise players getting games undeserved and all of Skinner's games have been undeserved. He has barely managed even a respectable VFL game let alone a good one.

Even with Mulligan I thought as unlikely as it seemed, it was possible he could have had an AFL career, Skinner has no chance.

stefoid

14-08-2012, 03:47 PM

Im going to start this backwards - which promising youngsters do I want to see get more gametime?
JJ, Fletch, Pearce, Ayce, Roughhead, Wood, Talia, Howard*

Who needs to come in because they are they are good senior players?
Griffen, Williams

So thats 6 OUTs we need (wow)

Hooper, Cambell, Jong, Hargrave, Djekurra

* But I cant find a 6th out, so one of Pearce, Wood and Howard go as emergencies because of team balance (too many hald back flanks), so lets keep Howard as emergency

bornadog

14-08-2012, 03:56 PM

Maddog37

14-08-2012, 05:37 PM

I can't ignore what I've seen on the field, you can't unsee things. He simply is nowhere near the level required to play AFL football.

There is basically nothing he can do that will make me change my mind - because he can't do it. He is not capable. I don't want to see him perform against Sydney because I desperately want to see him out of the side.

I despise players getting games undeserved and all of Skinner's games have been undeserved. He has barely managed even a respectable VFL game let alone a good one.

Even with Mulligan I thought as unlikely as it seemed, it was possible he could have had an AFL career, Skinner has no chance.

SS have you been to any training runs and competitive sessions at the club?. Maybe he shows it all on the track and he just needs to reproduce in a game....the coaches must see something there.

Sockeye Salmon

14-08-2012, 06:02 PM

SS have you been to any training runs and competitive sessions at the club?. Maybe he shows it all on the track and he just needs to reproduce in a game....the coaches must see something there.

Buggered if I can see it

Maddog37

14-08-2012, 06:15 PM

I don't trust my judgement alot because I desperately want them all to be good. I would like to see him full of confidence and playing with flair but the AFL in general knocks this out of many players so he really is up against it if we want him to be all about the one percenters.

Ghost Dog

14-08-2012, 07:15 PM

I can't ignore what I've seen on the field, you can't unsee things. He simply is nowhere near the level required to play AFL football.

There is basically nothing he can do that will make me change my mind - because he can't do it. He is not capable. I don't want to see him perform against Sydney because I desperately want to see him out of the side.

I despise players getting games undeserved and all of Skinner's games have been undeserved. He has barely managed even a respectable VFL game let alone a good one.

Even with Mulligan I thought as unlikely as it seemed, it was possible he could have had an AFL career, Skinner has no chance.

Not even kick goals? The argument that ' oh he just got a goal because of an undeserved free' doesn't wash with me. I don't care how he gets them as long as he gets them. If he is picked this week, he clearly does have a chance doesn't he?
He simply needs to kick goals any way he can.

Sometimes I go on youtube and watch the games in the 80's. So many players I have never heard of played for our club. The game just chews through players. That's the reality. But if they kick goals, they will stay. Bottom line.

Ghost Dog

14-08-2012, 07:20 PM

I just piss myself laughing at your double standards: on the one hand you won't accept any excuses when assessing the coach (results speak for themselves) but you apply a different standard when assessing Skinner (results don't matter because Skinner got the goals and possessions in a less creditable way via free kicks that you think were soft.)

Good point. Back to the Sydney game...

LostDoggy

14-08-2012, 09:10 PM

Sockeye Salmon

14-08-2012, 09:49 PM

Not even kick goals? The argument that ' oh he just got a goal because of an undeserved free' doesn't wash with me. I don't care how he gets them as long as he gets them. If he is picked this week, he clearly does have a chance doesn't he?
He simply needs to kick goals any way he can.

Sometimes I go on youtube and watch the games in the 80's. So many players I have never heard of played for our club. The game just chews through players. That's the reality. But if they kick goals, they will stay. Bottom line.

He. Can't. Play.

Ghost Dog

14-08-2012, 11:56 PM

He. Can't. Play.

It's. Too. Early. To. Say. Categorically.

Topdog

15-08-2012, 07:26 AM

It's. Too. Early. To. Say. Categorically.

Usually yes and I believe SS is the biggest enforcer of the "cant judge a kid til 50 games" but with Skinner it is pretty obvious.

Hotdog60

15-08-2012, 08:24 AM

I'd be inclined to try Skinner in the back line. His hands aren't good enough to be in the forward fifty but with his leap and a bit of ruck knowledge he may make a good spoiler.

If he can't cut it down back I'd say see ya later.

Desipura

15-08-2012, 08:38 AM

Higgins should be right this week, he has just signed a 2 year contract so he would be keen to play.

bornadog

15-08-2012, 08:46 AM

Higgins should be right this week, he has just signed a 2 year contract so he would be keen to play.

He says he will be playing.

So In comes: Griffen, Higgins, Panos,

out goes - does it matter.

Ghost Dog

15-08-2012, 08:47 AM

Usually yes and I believe SS is the biggest enforcer of the "cant judge a kid til 50 games" but with Skinner it is pretty obvious.

I'm going to give you guys hell if he comes good. :D

Desipura

15-08-2012, 08:50 AM

He says he will be playing.

So In comes: Griffen, Higgins, Panos,

out goes - does it matter.
Cordy may come in as well.
In: Griffen, Higgins, Panos & Cordy
Out: Campbell, DJ, Hooper & Hargrave

bornadog

15-08-2012, 08:54 AM

I'm going to give you guys hell if he comes good. :D

GD, I am a bit like you, I hate to write off players after two games. I remember watching Tony Libba play his first game at Essendon in the late 80's and I thought, my god who is this bloke he is no where near AFL level. In 1987 he played 12 games, then in 88 one and another one in 1989. But to Tony's credit, he worked at it and Wheeler gave him a chance and he won a Brownlow playing only 19 games in 1990.

bornadog

15-08-2012, 08:54 AM

Cordy may come in as well.
In: Griffen, Higgins, Panos & Cordy
Out: Campbell, DJ, Hooper & Hargrave

I would be happy with that.

Topdog

16-08-2012, 09:46 AM

would be happy to be proven wrong.

LostDoggy

16-08-2012, 04:20 PM

Expect Ayce to play, the FB page made a post about him and they've done that a couple times leading up to games before the someone gets a call up (Gilbee and Zeph i remember)

Ghost Dog

16-08-2012, 04:59 PM

GD, I am a bit like you, I hate to write off players after two games. I remember watching Tony Libba play his first game at Essendon in the late 80's and I thought, my god who is this bloke he is no where near AFL level. In 1987 he played 12 games, then in 88 one and another one in 1989. But to Tony's credit, he worked at it and Wheeler gave him a chance and he won a Brownlow playing only 19 games in 1990.

Good point BAD

Mantis

16-08-2012, 06:29 PM

bornadog

16-08-2012, 06:35 PM

In: Cooney, Griffen, Higgins, Wood, Cordy, Jones, Markovic

Out: Hargrave (susp), Hooper, Sherman, Grant

-----------------------------------

Interchange from is:

Cooney, Jong, Talia, Skinner, Djerrkura, Campbell, Jones

Disappointed we don't keep Grant in, and playing forward. Based on the ins can't see Campbell playing or DJ, toss of the coin for another one out.

LostDoggy

16-08-2012, 06:37 PM

Grant is the coaches whipping boy.
No panos, safe to say gone.
Why is Campbell playing? A bet each way,Minson is going?

Mantis

16-08-2012, 06:39 PM

Grant is the coaches whipping boy.
No panos, safe to say gone.
Why is Campbell playing? A bet each way,Minson is going?

As is Sherman... who was poor, but it's 1 week in, 2 out... Repeat.

Greystache

16-08-2012, 06:48 PM

As is Sherman... who was poor, but it's 1 week in, 2 out... Repeat.

Grant was terrible on the weekend, I had him out too.

The one common trait Grant and Sherman share is questionable effort. If you're going to pick and choose your moments during a game you'd want to play well, neither of those two did.

Grant got spoken to just before halftime by McCartney about two weak efforts in the 2nd quarter, then he comes out during the 3rd quarter and has 2 goals kicked on him by Edwards when was caught spectating. He doesn't help himself.

LostDoggy

16-08-2012, 06:53 PM

Why is he playing back? He could easily match Skinners output up forward.
Whats with this backs forwards and vice versa?
Addison, Lake and Hargraves all played forward last week.
Roughead and Grant back.
He was far from the worst last week.

bulldogsthru&thru

16-08-2012, 06:59 PM

Disappointed not to see Panos. Is he done? Wonder why the coach won't 'trial' him like he has everyone else.

LostDoggy

16-08-2012, 07:02 PM

Disappointed not to see Panos. Is he done? Wonder why the coach won't 'trial' him like he has everyone else.

He is taking the piss. Make him emergency last week, force him miss the williamstown game then don't try him.

Eastdog

16-08-2012, 07:04 PM

Disappointed not to see Panos. Is he done? Wonder why the coach won't 'trial' him like he has everyone else.

Also disappointed not seeing Panos and Hill get a go. Will Panos be delisted? Or debut in 2013?

The Bulldogs Bite

16-08-2012, 07:07 PM

He is taking the piss. Make him emergency last week, force him miss the williamstown game then don't try him.

It's odd.

Really odd.

What was the point of upgrading Panos and not playing him? Hell, as much as the Hooper/Mulligan upgrades were stupid, at least we played them.

I think Panos would likely struggle at AFL level, but it's silly that he hasn't even been given an opportunity.

bornadog

16-08-2012, 07:27 PM

As is Sherman... who was poor, but it's 1 week in, 2 out... Repeat.

and DJ is still in:eek:

Eastdog

16-08-2012, 07:37 PM

It's odd.

Really odd.

What was the point of upgrading Panos and not playing him? Hell, as much as the Hooper/Mulligan upgrades were stupid, at least we played them.

I think Panos would likely struggle at AFL level, but it's silly that he hasn't even been given an opportunity.

After his elevation and all the excitement of his debut whenever that was going to be this year it may well not happen now. 2 more rounds to go.

G-Mo77

16-08-2012, 07:42 PM

He is taking the piss. Make him emergency last week, force him miss the williamstown game then don't try him.

Which is why Willy want to dump us. They took Panos and Jong out of the Willy team so they could sign autographs earlier in the year.

Grant out is disappointing, he could be on the way out.

I'm grinning with glee I don't have to see Sherman play in the last game I'll attend for 2012.

The side overall, while there is some handy in's, it doesn't look like they're picking a good balance. In the squad there are 3 Rucks and 5 tall defenders.

I'll take a guess at the bench.

IC: Talia, Jong, Skinner, Cooney (Sub)

Maddog37

16-08-2012, 08:12 PM

and DJ is still in:eek:

I dont think you can question DJs effort as opposed to some of the other outs.

LostDoggy

16-08-2012, 08:35 PM

I dont think you can question DJs effort as opposed to some of the other outs.

Can't crack in, can't play.

bornadog

16-08-2012, 09:42 PM

I dont think you can question DJs effort as opposed to some of the other outs.

Not questioning his effort, just his ability to play at this level.

Mofra

16-08-2012, 10:15 PM

Not questioning his effort, just his ability to play at this level.
Does everything right except he fumbles, almost everytime.

Greystache

16-08-2012, 10:21 PM

Does everything right except he fumbles, almost everytime.

And runs very hard but rarely to the right positions.

kruder

16-08-2012, 10:52 PM

Grant is the coaches whipping boy.
No panos, safe to say gone.
Why is Campbell playing? A bet each way,Minson is going?

Is a player at all responsible for his performance under your ethos? Grant has been bloody awful post 2010 yet Bmac in your books is why all things are wrong with the world.

bornadog

16-08-2012, 10:58 PM

Is a player at all responsible for his performance under your ethos? Grant has been bloody awful post 2010 yet Bmac in your books is why all things are wrong with the world.

Just like you blamed Eade in the past.

LostDoggy

17-08-2012, 07:29 AM

Is a player at all responsible for his performance under your ethos? Grant has been bloody awful post 2010 yet Bmac in your books is why all things are wrong with the world.

Funny how you picked my post when I'm not the only that has stated this.
Again I don't blame the coach for everything, there are plenty of things wrong at the club.

stefoid

17-08-2012, 10:15 AM

I dont share the angst about team selection. We are selecting to avoid a meaningless draft-position affecting win in these last 6 or so games. We are playing Sydney and Geelong so we can afford to pick senior players the next two weeks - we'll still lose.

For those waiting to see Panos and Hill get a game, wait until the 'danger game' against brisbane. Cant wait to see that team - Jong, Panos, Hill, Jones, Sherman, DJ, a girl scout, some guy in a wheel chair They will be the ins :)

Mofra

17-08-2012, 10:22 AM

For those waiting to see Panos and Hill get a game, wait until the 'danger game' against brisbane. Cant wait to see that team - Jong, Panos, Hill, Jones, Sherman, DJ, a girl scout, some guy in a wheel chair They will be the ins :)
Can't wait to see Hooper ruck againt Huddo

Sockeye Salmon

17-08-2012, 10:30 AM

G-Mo77

17-08-2012, 04:53 PM

Official team finalised.

Interchange; Djerrkura, Jong, Cooney, Skinner.

Emergencies; Jones, Talia, Campbell.

Bit surprised on the Talia exclusion although we're very top heavy down back. DJ and Skinner survive

The Bulldogs Bite

17-08-2012, 05:16 PM

No idea how DJ survives, and I hate that we are playing Markovic over Talia.

G-Mo77

17-08-2012, 05:23 PM

No idea how DJ survives, and I hate that we are playing Markovic over Talia.

Honestly I thought Talia's promotion was premature. I didn't expect to see him at all this season but now that he was in the team I'm disappointed to see him out.

I'm pretty excited about seeing Roberts play a full game though.

Sockeye Salmon

17-08-2012, 05:24 PM

chef

17-08-2012, 05:29 PM

bornadog

17-08-2012, 05:45 PM

I thought it was pretty obvious that these two aren't up to scratch.

Prefer Jones in, than anyone of those.

The Pie Man

17-08-2012, 06:05 PM

I'm ropable at that team, though I half expected Campbell to survive with the rest of the talls, so that's something I guess.....

Nuggety Back Pocket

17-08-2012, 06:32 PM

Prefer Jones in, than anyone of those.

When was the last time that Jones played a decent game at senior level?

Nuggety Back Pocket

17-08-2012, 06:44 PM

No idea how DJ survives, and I hate that we are playing Markovic over Talia.

DJ survives because Dahlhaus is out and Sherman and Grant haven't been any better. Like you I still am not convinced about Markovic but Talia needs more time at Williamstown.

Greystache

17-08-2012, 07:04 PM

No idea how DJ survives, and I hate that we are playing Markovic over Talia.

While it may not seem that way I think realistically we're playing Roberts over Talia. I thought Talia's promotion was premature, but he did a pretty good job and will be better for the exposure. I think he's at least another preseason from being ready to be a viable back up. To me Roberts has been ahead of Talia this year but from what I've heard he was a little bit sore a couple of weeks ago which held him back.

I think 2 games for Talia and 3 and a bit for Roberts is pretty much the right return for those two, hopefully with some VFL finals experience too.

The Bulldogs Bite

17-08-2012, 07:09 PM

While it may not seem that way I think realistically we're playing Roberts over Talia. I thought Talia's promotion was premature, but he did a pretty good job and will be better for the exposure. I think he's at least another preseason from being ready to be a viable back up. To me Roberts has been ahead of Talia this year but from what I've heard he was a little bit sore a couple of weeks ago which held him back.

I think 2 games for Talia and 3 and a bit for Roberts is pretty much the right return for those two, hopefully with some VFL finals experience too.

I'm glad Roberts is playing and hopefully if his body is permitting, he will see out the remaining games. However, I don't see why we wouldn't blood an extra few games into Talia too. It can only benefit him in the long run, playing on a range of different AFL opponents in a fast paced and highly competitive environment.

What do we have to lose by playing both Talia and Roberts for the remaining few games?

Moreover, how can anyone justify playing Markovic ahead of Talia? What does that achieve short term AND long term?

Greystache

17-08-2012, 07:15 PM

I'm glad Roberts is playing and hopefully if his body is permitting, he will see out the remaining games. However, I don't see why we wouldn't blood an extra few games into Talia too. It can only benefit him in the long run, playing on a range of different AFL opponents in a fast paced and highly competitive environment.

What do we have to lose by playing both Talia and Roberts for the remaining few games?

Moreover, how can anyone justify playing Markovic ahead of Talia? What does that achieve short term AND long term?

Talia, Roberts, and Roughead is an awfully inexperienced group. I think it's one too many.

I liked the idea of Talia and Roberts getting a few games, but not necessarily in the same team. While some of our supporters don't rate Markovic and think he's only a short term solution, I don't think the coaching group sees it that way, I think he's seen as best 22 when available.

The Bulldogs Bite

17-08-2012, 07:19 PM

I liked the idea of Talia and Roberts getting a few games, but not necessarily in the same team. While some of our supporters don't rate Markovic and think he's only a short term solution, I don't think the coaching group sees it that way, I think he's seen as best 22 when available.

It certainly appears that way given his selection when fit and McCartney's regular praise.

Personally I don't see Markovic as a short term option. I see him as somebody we should delist alongside Hooper and Mulligan.

The Pie Man

17-08-2012, 08:00 PM

It certainly appears that way given his selection when fit and McCartney's regular praise.

Personally I don't see Markovic as a short term option. I see him as somebody we should delist alongside Hooper and Mulligan.

Playing Markovic reeks of playing 'the right people'

I can only assume Skinner turns up to work and does the right things, while Grant doesn't.

Can it be 2014 already (not a typo)?

azabob

17-08-2012, 08:27 PM

It certainly appears that way given his selection when fit and McCartney's regular praise.

Personally I don't see Markovic as a short term option. I see him as somebody we should delist alongside Hooper and Mulligan.

Playing Markovic reeks of playing 'the right people'

Can it be 2014 already (not a typo)?

Don't forget guys that Eade and co also rated Markovic, he also did finish tenth in our B&F in 2011.

Mantis

17-08-2012, 09:13 PM

Don't forget guys that Eade and co also rated Markovic, he also did finish tenth in our B&F in 2011.

If Lake was fit Markovic would have been lucky to play 5 games last year.. he was played out of neccessity.

azabob

17-08-2012, 09:29 PM

If Lake was fit Markovic would have been lucky to play 5 games last year.. he was played out of neccessity.

True, but he still played a role and he obviously did it well.

Bulldog4life

18-08-2012, 11:31 AM

Grant is the coaches whipping boy.
No panos, safe to say gone.
Why is Campbell playing? A bet each way,Minson is going?

Do you know for sure whether he has a contract next year or not or are you assuming he hasn't?

Mofra

18-08-2012, 11:33 AM

If Lake was fit Markovic would have been lucky to play 5 games last year.. he was played out of neccessity.
We'd play two talls in defence, and with Williams made of tissue paper he would still manage games last year with a fit Lake.
With Williams, Austin, Roughy playing back and Roberts & Talia developing, Marko is sadly on shaky ground.

GVGjr

18-08-2012, 11:40 AM

Do you know for sure whether he has a contract next year or not or are you assuming he hasn't?

I think there is a fair assumption that many believe he has a 1 year deal.
I would find it strange that we promoted him after two seasons as a rookie but then only give him a one year deal. In my view it's more likely than not that Panos will be at the club again next season.

I like him as a player but unless he really improves his running capacity I just don't think he can offer us much as a senior footballer.

Bulldog4life

18-08-2012, 12:28 PM

I think there is a fair assumption that many believe he has a 1 year deal.
I would find it strange that we promoted him after two seasons as a rookie but then only give him a one year deal. In my view it's more likely than not that Panos will be at the club again next season.

I like him as a player but unless he really improves his running capacity I just don't think he can offer us much as a senior footballer.

Ditto. Find it strange that the Club would promote him and not give him one senior game. Therefore would expect him to be there next year.