Jarrad Grant

[Sockeye Salmon]

This is not what you expected when you opened this thread.

I had local footy commitments yesterday so I have only watched the game today. Last night I read all the comments about Jarrad Grant so I paid specific attention to his game.


He made two bad mistakes - his little chip kick in the first quarter that went straight to a Richmond player and he didn't get body contact when Edwards marked the high one. (He did have a pressured kick around the corner in the 3rd that was marked by Richmond but it was hardly a clanger).


Just in the first quarter he was directly responsible for Brian Lake's first two shots at goal and directly involved in Hooper's goal.

Later in the game he left his man to spoil, followed up and ran hard to mark in our pocket before chipping to Skinner. It was one of very few decent passages of play we had.

All in all, I thought he was pretty solid.

[LostDoggy]

Agree thought he was ok

[Go_Dogs]

Also agree with you SS - thought he wasn't too bad yesterday and showed his pace, his hands and his good game sense at various times. He's suffering from expectation being based on his draft position, and that he was a key forward. Realistically he's a flanker who should be a solid to good player for us.

[stefoid]

I like him when he is competing for the ball, and as a forward: he knows how to put the ball to advantage of other forwards.

But needs to fight harder with 2nd and 3rd efforts, and needs to make it to more contests.

I get the idea that macca is going to be a monkey on his back the entire preseason.

[Maddog37]

I like the fact he is trying to take pack marks or even punching in packs. Seems to resent being first man up in a pack and prefers to have the sit which is ok if he can do it consistently.

He is any easy target because he is very laconic but I feel he is having a crack.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

There seems to SOME people on these kind of forums that seem to have whipping boys...Gia, Grant, Higgins etc...:mad:

[Redemption97]

I was one of those who made comments around Grant’s game last night. I didn't do it because he is an easy target or that it makes me feel better, I made those comments because when I watch him play like he did, I get frustrated with him. He's been on our list for quite a few seasons now and the excuses are now running dry and the occasional flash of potential is no longer good enough. He's had years to work on his body but he is still smaller than most of our 1st year players. I'm disappointed that he's still not got himself strong enough after a number of preseasons to play the kind of football we know he is capable of and the kind of footy that our side desperately needs him to play.

He has the potential, there are things he does sometimes that show this but he’ll never produce consistently until he actually commits himself to the gym and puts on enough muscle to compete to an AFL standard. Then perhaps a lot of those half hearted tackles and the times he’s pushed out of the contest or when flying for the ball might be eliminated from his game, and hopefully then we’ll have the player we used a number 5 draft pick to get all those years ago.

That said, I’d like to see him have another season after what we’ve invested in him and hopefully Macca will have him locked in the weights room connected to a drip full of protein shakes! A stronger and more confident Grant next season will go a long way to making us a better side.

[bornadog]

I was one of those who made comments around Grant’s game last night. I didn't do it because he is an easy target or that it makes me feel better, I made those comments because when I watch him play like he did, I get frustrated with him. He's been on our list for quite a few seasons now and the excuses are now running dry and the occasional flash of potential is no longer good enough. He's had years to work on his body but he is still smaller than most of our 1st year players. I'm disappointed that he's still not got himself strong enough after a number of preseasons to play the kind of football we know he is capable of and the kind of footy that our side desperately needs him to play.

He has the potential, there are things he does sometimes that show this but he’ll never produce consistently until he actually commits himself to the gym and puts on enough muscle to compete to an AFL standard. Then perhaps a lot of those half hearted tackles and the times he’s pushed out of the contest or when flying for the ball might be eliminated from his game, and hopefully then we’ll have the player we used a number 5 draft pick to get all those years ago.

That said, I’d like to see him have another season after what we’ve invested in him and hopefully Macca will have him locked in the weights room connected to a drip full of protein shakes! A stronger and more confident Grant next season will go a long way to making us a better side.

You are being totally unfair about his body weight. He has the body shape that will never put on large amounts of weight. Rocket tried everything to get weight on him but they found he is just built that way. Have a look at Bob Murphy, or go back in time and look at Tuck, Robbie flower and many others. Maybe when he is in his late 20's he may bulk up a little.

Grant is only 22 years old and will never be a KPP, his best position is a third tall in the forward line playing almost a Eddie Betts type of role.

[Sedat]

There seems to SOME people on these kind of forums that seem to have whipping boys...Gia, Grant, Higgins etc...:mad:
I think the biggest problem for Grant is that his biggest whipping boy seems to be the coach

[Redemption97]

Yo7u are being totally unfair about his body weight. He has the body shape that will never put on large amounts of weight. Rocket tried everything to get weight on him but they found he is just built that way. Have a look at Bob Murphy, or go back in time and look at Tuck, Robbie flower and many others. Maybe when he is in his late 20's he may bulk up a little.

Grant is only 22 years old and will never be a KPP, his best position is a third tall in the forward line playing almost a Eddie Betts type of role.

I understand that he is lean and he’ll never be a behemoth key position player but I don’t believe you can’t get a lean body stronger. He doesn’t share the traits that make Bob Murphy a great player with a lean body. Bob certainly doesn’t get pushed out of the contest or off the ball as easily as Grant does.

My personal view is that if he can’t get his body stronger then he’ll never be a good AFL footballer.

[FrediKanoute]

The comparisons to Murphy are good. Murphy has a strong core and with that comes good balance (as well as a brilliant football brain). To me Grant's core is not strong. His quad's, glutes and abdominal muscles need to be developed -that means lots of squats and lunges in the off season. The good thing about bulking up the core is that shouldn't affect agility/pace 2 things Grant has.

I didn't think he has been too bad since he came back into the team. He seems to be working harder, but is not a natural backman. I still think his best position is forward. He made 2 errors yesterday, but I would be disappointed if he was dropped for those 2 errors.

[Maddog37]

He is 6 foot 5 and built like a whippet. I hate to say it but he needs time. As long as his attitude is ok I would stick with him. He has match winning potential.

[Cyberdoggie]

I understand that he is lean and he’ll never be a behemoth key position player but I don’t believe you can’t get a lean body stronger. He doesn’t share the traits that make Bob Murphy a great player with a lean body. Bob certainly doesn’t get pushed out of the contest or off the ball as easily as Grant does.

My personal view is that if he can’t get his body stronger then he’ll never be a good AFL footballer.

You dont' have to look big to be strong but unfortunately he's neither.

I didn't think he was awful but there were a couple of bad mistakes where he just wasn't strong enough. Got brushed aside in a weak tackle ponsford end that resulted in a goal that was a good example. Mind you he wasn't the only one.

[LongWait]

I would love to see Grant's tackling stats breakdown by quarter. My impression is that his tackling and 1%-ers drop off markedly after half time.

Grant is simply not strong enough period. Doesn't matter that he is wiry rather than beefy - he is just not strong enough and doesn't have a tank. Speed and agility may not be enough to give him a decent shot at being a 150 game player. I think that this is why the Coach rides him. If he didn't have so much potential Grant would be playing in Willi and would be gone at the end of the season.

[stefoid]

You dont need to be big and strong to play AFL. Being quick (of mind) and smart works well too - Cross is great at contesting the ball and has always been on the skinny side.

[always right]

He is 6 foot 5 and built like a whippet. I hate to say it but he needs time. As long as his attitude is ok I would stick with him. He has match winning potential.

He's 6 foot 3 and a bit.....but agree with everything else.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think the biggest problem for Grant is that his biggest whipping boy seems to be the coach

A bit tough to blame BMcC. Grant's inconsistent performances were already in evidence under Rodney Eade. This is another example of an early draft pick not being able to adjust to the rigors of our modern day game. Dahlhaus and Dickson playing in a similar position to Grant have been far more effective.

[Ghost Dog]

A bit tough to blame BMcC. Grant's inconsistent performances were already in evidence under Rodney Eade. This is another example of an early draft pick not being able to adjust to the rigors of our modern day game. Dahlhaus and Dickson playing in a similar position to Grant have been far more effective.

He would be much better in a team with a decent forward. Barry took a lot of the heat off him.

[LostDoggy]

Would like to see this guy traded. Attitude seems to really stink from a distance

[Before I Die]

I have the complete opposite view. I think he will come good and be an exceptional player. I haven't seen anything wrong with his attitude.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I have the complete opposite view. I think he will come good and be an exceptional player. I haven't seen anything wrong with his attitude.

I agree. I think Grant (and Higgins for that matter) are the sort of players you trade in, not out.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I agree. I think Grant (and Higgins for that matter) are the sort of players you trade in, not out.

If only we could 'trade them in'. We might be able to resurrect their careers

[LostDoggy]

Reminds me of Brennan for GC. A big tease but never delivers consistantly.

[F'scary]

I have no problem with his body type. He has a good athletic build. However, this is his 3rd or 4th full season and he can't keep a place in a struggling side. His kicking for goal is awful, especially from set shots and it has not improved in his 50 odd games for us. He goes missing a heck of a lot and appears disinterested in the defensive aspects of the game. As a forward he likes the speccy too much doesn't lead enough. As a backman he is too loose. He was a number 5 draft pick. Sorry, but I think we should trade him for whatever we can get. Pick 50 will do. Pick 30 would be about as much as you could hope for given his deficiencies and track record.

[F'scary]

I agree. I think Grant (and Higgins for that matter) are the sort of players you trade in, not out.

I would trade them both. I'm sick of the teasing aspects of their games. It's always just a tease on what they could be. Had enough.

[Greystache]

I'm staggered Grant is getting praise from some of our supporters from the weekend. I though he was slaughtered, and watching the replay today confirmed that view. Grant played most of the match on Edwards, who kicked 4 goals and could easily have kicked 8 if not for some pretty simple misses. Edwards also had 22 possessions as opposed to Grant's 17.

If more players had've played to Grant's level on the weekend we could easily have lost by 170. McCartney also ripped into him just before halftime for his lack of competitiveness in a couple of contests. I would be surprised if he manages to keep his place in the team this week.

[Ghost Dog]

I would trade them both. I'm sick of the teasing aspects of their games. It's always just a tease on what they could be. Had enough.

All the way with you F'scary. He's been at our club for how many years now?

[stefoid]

I suppose - its glass half full vs half empty - I look at what he does do and see thats more than what a lot of other players can do, but youre looking at what he doesnt do and seeing its not up to standard.

Skinner is like that too, but even more so.

[Ghost Dog]

I suppose - its glass half full vs half empty - I look at what he does do and see thats more than what a lot of other players can do, but youre looking at what he doesnt do and seeing its not up to standard.

Skinner is like that too, but even more so.

How long has he been in the system V Grant? poor comparison.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How long has he been in the system V Grant? poor comparison.

Skinner has not shown a quarter of what Grant has.

[stefoid]

How long has he been in the system V Grant? poor comparison.

I wasnt comparing the performance, but how people perceive them. Some see what he could be and want to keep him, others see his faults and want to delist him.

[Ghost Dog]

I wasnt comparing the performance, but how people perceive them. Some see what he could be and want to keep him, others see his faults and want to delist him.

Well, we haven't really seen much of Skinner yet have we. Grant needs to be put in a do or die situation I think. The club might just say ' look, you have three games to show us what you can do, or you are traded.'.

[Greystache]

Skinner has not shown a quarter of what Grant has.

He has to the same point in their careers. In Grant's second season at the club he played 1 game and got 1 kick. I'm not convinced Skinner will make it but Grant has delivered very little over an extended period of time.

It it weren't for a string of good games back in 2010 Grant would have done nothing of note in his 5 years at the club.

[GVGjr]

This is not what you expected when you opened this thread.

I had local footy commitments yesterday so I have only watched the game today. Last night I read all the comments about Jarrad Grant so I paid specific attention to his game.


He made two bad mistakes - his little chip kick in the first quarter that went straight to a Richmond player and he didn't get body contact when Edwards marked the high one. (He did have a pressured kick around the corner in the 3rd that was marked by Richmond but it was hardly a clanger).


Just in the first quarter he was directly responsible for Brian Lake's first two shots at goal and directly involved in Hooper's goal.

Later in the game he left his man to spoil, followed up and ran hard to mark in our pocket before chipping to Skinner. It was one of very few decent passages of play we had.

All in all, I thought he was pretty solid.

Good thread SS. I must confess that I get frustrated with guys like Grant that struggle to reach their potential because they often come across as lax.

That being said, we have to keep him at all costs and try our best to make it work.

The next 12 months are huge for him in my opinion.

[Maddog37]

Sundays game may have been painful watching Grant get run around by Edwards but it may also be a very handy lesson too. Everything is not always a catastrophe.

Personally I think Edwards is a pretty smart player too.

[LongWait]

I think that the Coach is determined to re-build and re-educate Grant. The way McCartney has spoken about Grant I'm sure he will stay on our list and will remain a project player (albeit a high draft pick project player.)

[bornadog]

I think that the Coach is determined to re-build and re-educate Grant. The way McCartney has spoken about Grant I'm sure he will stay on our list and will remain a project player (albeit a high draft pick project player.)

Agreed, he still needs to mature more, and the next few years will be big ones for him.

[Ghost Dog]

Agreed, he still needs to mature more, and the next few years will be big ones for him.

Fair enough. This is his fourth year in the system. Surely only a fifth is required to know for sure if he's ready.

[bornadog]

Fair enough. This is his fourth year in the system. Surely only a fifth is required to know for sure if he's ready.

We know talls take a longer time to mature. Grant is what 22 years old?

[Ghost Dog]

We know talls take a longer time to mature. Grant is what 22 years old?

Physically yes. I guess there is not the intensity you would want there sometimes, but let's be frank, he has really improved this season. Definitely hasn't gone backwards.
Just with the year we have had, desperately looking for answers / scapegoats / things to look forward to.

[jeemak]

Fair enough. This is his fourth year in the system. Surely only a fifth is required to know for sure if he's ready.

Fifth. Better get rid of 'im eh?

Just a couple of points to note, he came out of the under 18's very under-developed, and had his first year ruined by OP and a Stingray bite.

2009 saw him play one very ordinary game while developing.

2010 saw him play alonside Barry Hall in a side that could move the ball forward. He played many good games, kicked thirty goals or so and had a highest tally of six goals (isn't another player on the list that has managed to do that).

2011 was disappointing, though he wasn't helped by our decline in quality ball movement.

2012 is similar to 2011, and a poor start to the year saw him paddocked to build fitness and weight. It must be noted that he is adjusting to a new coach, and after coming back from a spell he played his best game of the year up forward, and has since played out of defense (for some reason, I suppose most likely development).

I can understand why some criticise him as he seems to be an exceptional talent that can't put it all together consistently. I also quesiton some of his efforts when the tide is against him.

What I can't understand is the expectation that such a clearly under-developed player was going to play consistent football for us over the first half of his career, especially recently considering we don't have a developed key forward to take the pressure off our younger ones and we can't kick the thing to a forward to save ourselves anyway. I also struggle to understand how anyone expects him to be a competent backman after a couple of games adjusting to the position in a team that is giving every opportunity to the opposition to dominate and kick massive winning scores.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm staggered Grant is getting praise from some of our supporters from the weekend.

When you put it like that, it's hard to disagree.

Maybe I'm just satisfied seeing glimpses of the AFL traits he has. He's still a long way off being a consistent contributor but hopefully he is starting to move in the right direction.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Fifth. Better get rid of 'im eh?

Just a couple of points to note, he came out of the under 18's very under-developed, and had his first year ruined by OP and a Stingray bite.

2009 saw him play one very ordinary game while developing.

2010 saw him play alonside Barry Hall in a side that could move the ball forward. He played many good games, kicked thirty goals or so and had a highest tally of six goals (isn't another player on the list that has managed to do that).

2011 was disappointing, though he wasn't helped by our decline in quality ball movement.

2012 is similar to 2011, and a poor start to the year saw him paddocked to build fitness and weight. It must be noted that he is adjusting to a new coach, and after coming back from a spell he played his best game of the year up forward, and has since played out of defense (for some reason, I suppose most likely development).

I can understand why some criticise him as he seems to be an exceptional talent that can't put it all together consistently. I also quesiton some of his efforts when the tide is against him.

What I can't understand is the expectation that such a clearly under-developed player was going to play consistent football for us over the first half of his career, especially recently considering we don't have a developed key forward to take the pressure off our younger ones and we can't kick the thing to a forward to save ourselves anyway. I also struggle to understand how anyone expects him to be a competent backman after a couple of games adjusting to the position in a team that is giving every opportunity to the opposition to dominate and kick massive winning scores.

Good post.

Grant has more talent than most of our list and is likely to produce more from the age of 25+.

Having said that, next year is crucial for him. That development trend needs to spike upwards.

[EasternWest]

Good post.

Grant has more talent than most of our list and is likely to produce more from the age of 25+.

Having said that, next year is crucial for him. That development trend needs to spike upwards.

So, to play devils advocate, if next year is crucial to him (given that he'll hit the magical 25 the year after) and he has a poor year, what do you think our position on him should be then?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

So, to play devils advocate, if next year is crucial to him (given that he'll hit the magical 25 the year after) and he has a poor year, what do you think our position on him should be then?

It's dependent on his attitude, but as long as it's OK, then I see no reason why he wouldn't be given another year.

I'm not sure what his contract status is, and it might be interesting if it ends after this season, but I'd re-sign him for two years.

We gave Walsh, Skipper and Wight 5+ years on the list with incredibly minimal return on all three. I don't see why we wouldn't do the same for Grant, who clearly has the ability to be a good AFL player. If McCartney's a good teacher, he should have Grant as his #1 subject.

[EasternWest]

It's dependent on his attitude, but as long as it's OK, then I see no reason why he wouldn't be given another year.

I'm not sure what his contract status is, and it might be interesting if it ends after this season, but I'd re-sign him for two years.

We gave Walsh, Skipper and Wight 5+ years on the list with incredibly minimal return on all three. I don't see why we wouldn't do the same for Grant, who clearly has the ability to be a good AFL player. If McCartney's a good teacher, he should have Grant as his #1 subject.

Cheers. I like Grant, as frustrating as he's been. I'd keep him too.

[Mofra]

We gave Walsh, Skipper and Wight 5+ years on the list with incredibly minimal return on all three. I don't see why we wouldn't do the same for Grant, who clearly has the ability to be a good AFL player. If McCartney's a good teacher, he should have Grant as his #1 subject.
Fair comparison, as he's probably performing to the Cam Wight level on 2012 form - mostly promising with the odd howler.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Well, there's no doubt that the coaching panel has issues with Grant's game. He's been dropped again, so it begs me to ask -- what IS his contract status?

I don't understand why we play him back (and then drop him).

Perhaps a quote for another thread, but Sherman has to be in trouble too -- doesn't he?

[MrMahatma]

Well, there's no doubt that the coaching panel has issues with Grant's game. He's been dropped again, so it begs me to ask -- what IS his contract status?

I don't understand why we play him back (and then drop him).

Perhaps a quote for another thread, but Sherman has to be in trouble too -- doesn't he?
Doesn't bode well for either.

Grant a bit stiff I reckon.

[AndrewP6]

To be brutally honest, I wouldn't be fazed if Grant were moved on. From an outsider's view, he just doesn't seem to have what is required in the intensity department. Don't wish him any ill will, but wouldn't be that disappointed to see his name on the trade table.

[Ghost Dog]

He's out again this week. I would take it the MC didn't think much of his efforts. Perhaps he feels hard done by as well. I wonder if he and his manager would be interested in a trade?

[Sedat]

I fully expect to see Grant at the club next season and under the careful tutelage of BMac. Anything else and the teaching mantra starts to ring awfully hollow.

[LostDoggy]

Fifth. Better get rid of 'im eh?

Just a couple of points to note, he came out of the under 18's very under-developed, and had his first year ruined by OP and a Stingray bite.

2009 saw him play one very ordinary game while developing.

2010 saw him play alonside Barry Hall in a side that could move the ball forward. He played many good games, kicked thirty goals or so and had a highest tally of six goals (isn't another player on the list that has managed to do that).

2011 was disappointing, though he wasn't helped by our decline in quality ball movement.

2012 is similar to 2011, and a poor start to the year saw him paddocked to build fitness and weight. It must be noted that he is adjusting to a new coach, and after coming back from a spell he played his best game of the year up forward, and has since played out of defense (for some reason, I suppose most likely development).

I can understand why some criticise him as he seems to be an exceptional talent that can't put it all together consistently. I also quesiton some of his efforts when the tide is against him.

What I can't understand is the expectation that such a clearly under-developed player was going to play consistent football for us over the first half of his career, especially recently considering we don't have a developed key forward to take the pressure off our younger ones and we can't kick the thing to a forward to save ourselves anyway. I also struggle to understand how anyone expects him to be a competent backman after a couple of games adjusting to the position in a team that is giving every opportunity to the opposition to dominate and kick massive winning scores.

Just the most accurate post I've read! Thank you!! It's all fact! Couldn't have written the last paragraph any better

[Greystache]

I fully expect to see Grant at the club next season and under the careful tutelage of BMac. Anything else and the teaching mantra starts to ring awfully hollow.

Unless Grant doesn't meet McCartney's "teaching quality people the right way to play " mantra.

It seems to me McCartney has invested a lot of time in Grant this year to try to turn around a player that had badly stagnated and appeared to have lost direction, perhaps he feels that effort is being reciprocated.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Unless Grant doesn't meet McCartney's "teaching quality people the right way to play " mantra.

It seems to me McCartney has invested a lot of time in Grant this year to try to turn around a player that had badly stagnated and appeared to have lost direction, perhaps he feels that effort is being reciprocated.

It seems to me McCartney has done nothing but rip him down and destroy him.

I would be surprised if Grant was at the club next year.

[Greystache]

It seems to me McCartney has done nothing but rip him down and destroy him.

I would be surprised if Grant was at the club next year.

Rip him down and destroy him? He'd be going nowhere with the previous approach, you don't think it was worth putting the emphasis on him to start delivering.

If he goes to another club he'll have similar career to his close mate Everitt.

[soupman]

If he goes to another club he'll have similar career to his close mate Everitt.

I disagree. I think he'd kill it elsewhere.

I am firmly against getting rid of Grant. He is one of the very few players on our list who has the potential to be a matchwinner.

[stefoid]

One more year to see a change in intensity, regardless of onfield results. If the intensity changes, then with the talents he has, the results will follow eventaully.

but if the intensity doesnt change, then we trade him while he still has currency.

[Mofra]

I disagree. I think he'd kill it elsewhere.
How many players have we had that have "killed it elsewhere", especially fringe players?

In the modern era, only Ward & Brown have performed elsewhere - but were certainly not fringe.
Hill is still a frontrunner, Reid has done squat at GWS, Skipper had one decent year at AFL level and Everitt is in and out of the Sydney side, one which is often regarded as the benchmark for player development.

[stefoid]

How many players have we had that have "killed it elsewhere", especially fringe players?

In the modern era, only Ward & Brown have performed elsewhere - but were certainly not fringe.
Hill is still a frontrunner, Reid has done squat at GWS, Skipper had one decent year at AFL level and Everitt is in and out of the Sydney side, one which is often regarded as the benchmark for player development.

Its true - we have had much more good fortune trading fringe players out than aquiring them - except when we did a 'swap' such as Harbrow for Sherman or Vezpremi for Everitt.

As a rule, it seems turning the fringes of the list over quickly, and using proceeds (picks and list spots) towards the draft reaps the most benefits over time.

If we are only holding on to Vezpremi, DJ and Sherman because they are 'in the right age group' then the above is an argument to draft hungry mature age players from the second tier comps in their places.

[w3design]

Well, there's no doubt that the coaching panel has issues with Grant's game. He's been dropped again, so it begs me to ask -- what IS his contract status?

I don't understand why we play him back (and then drop him).

Perhaps a quote for another thread, but Sherman has to be in trouble too -- doesn't he?

While I normally am big on loyalty to players on our list, I think the time is rapidly approaching where both Grant and Sherman could be put up for trade. They are both very talented players, but history is littered with talented players who never reach or achieve near to their potential.
Are we better off long term with a supremely talented constant underachiever on our list, or a moderately talented go-at-it 110% overachiever.
I say give all players a fair go, but time comes where I for one would go with the latter every time.

[Greystache]

I disagree. I think he'd kill it elsewhere.

I am firmly against getting rid of Grant. He is one of the very few players on our list who has the potential to be a matchwinner.

I don't think Grant will ever kill it anywhere, but why I say he'll go nowhere if he leaves at the end of this season is that it will just confirm he's always looking for the easiest option. He's had 5 years with us, he's 23, and he's finally had some real accountability placed on him that drifting along and making excuses isn't going to cut it anymore. If he wants out straight away he is just announcing he doesn't have the hunger to make it at AFL level.

[stefoid]

Actually, an asterisk for the 'dont trade in' rule.

I reckon history says that trading in mature age ruckman actually works. ruckwork seems mostly to require age-related attributes: pure strength and experience, so a 27yo hack will tend to beat up on a 21yo talent.

Its also begs the question 'should you ever use an elite-level pick on a ruckman'? The answer is generally 'no', with Nicnat being the exception to the rule. (hes not so much a ruck as a giant midfielder who takes the tap at stoppages)

[LostDoggy]

In the case of Grant I think he is unfortunate in that he is built wrong for what he wants to bring to the game.

He sees himself and his skills are of that of a power forward but his body does not fit the bill. Add to that his poor kicking particularly for goal and in my view he offers little in either the short or long term.

Happy to be proven wrong but can't see it.

As for Sherman, to quote a regular poster, "he is a Potato."

[soupman]

How many players have we had that have "killed it elsewhere", especially fringe players?

In the modern era, only Ward & Brown have performed elsewhere - but were certainly not fringe.
Hill is still a frontrunner, Reid has done squat at GWS, Skipper had one decent year at AFL level and Everitt is in and out of the Sydney side, one which is often regarded as the benchmark for player development.

And yet Grant is far more talented than any of them (ecculde Ward and Browb obviously), has shown he can be a very good player at AFL level, has some pretty rare attributes and still has a lot of unfulfilled potential. Playing in our forwardline with its shitty other forwards and crap delivery does not help him, and we will get no where near his true value if we trade him.

I think he would be a very good player elsewhere, and is closer to being a very good player for us than many supporters seem to think.

[Mofra]

And yet Grant is far more talented than any of them (ecculde Ward and Browb obviously), has shown he can be a very good player at AFL level, has some pretty rare attributes and still has a lot of unfulfilled potential. Playing in our forwardline with its shitty other forwards and crap delivery does not help him, and we will get no where near his true value if we trade him.

I think he would be a very good player elsewhere, and is closer to being a very good player for us than many supporters seem to think.
He was just dropped after playing as a backman, not a forward - if we playing well as a forward, we would have played forward last game.
"Unfulfilled potential" applies to pretty much every footballer who gets cut from a list every year - and a truckload of kids who don't get drafted.

What is his true value if traded? If the Acorn is worth a 2nd rounder, Grant would be approaching high 3rd/low 4th rounder.

I think he'll be a Bulldog next year but he's certainly not some sort of forwardline messiah or potential goalkicking machine - he's not even a certainty to be in our best 22 next year.

[The Pie Man]

OK inflammatory post warning

I'll say this confessing to not being Grant's biggest fan - his intensity at times isn't at the level required, so part of me thinks he might be best trading/writing off

But despite all of this, I'm going to call his treatment for what it is. Total bullshit.

How does Skinner survive over him based on last week? Why is he played back when clearly not suited, then baked for conceding goals? (especially when so impressive on his return as a roaming half forward vs Carlton) How does he get games early in the year with the build he has then get told half way through the season he has to put on more muscle?

No winners out of this at all.

[stefoid]

Theres a few guys playing like Skinner and DJ that I think the coach wants one (last) decent look at.

Grant on the other hand, I think he is prepared to put more time into. He has areas he wants him to work on and if that means he misses games this year or has to play back or whatever, then so be it.

Thats my interpretation, anyway.

[Ghost Dog]

OK inflammatory post warning

I'll say this confessing to not being Grant's biggest fan - his intensity at times isn't at the level required, so part of me thinks he might be best trading/writing off

But despite all of this, I'm going to call his treatment for what it is. Total bullshit.

How does Skinner survive over him based on last week? Why is he played back when clearly not suited, then baked for conceding goals? (especially when so impressive on his return as a roaming half forward vs Carlton) How does he get games early in the year with the build he has then get told half way through the season he has to put on more muscle?

No winners out of this at all.

Right Stefoid. Maybe a case of Grant is a known entity now, forward and back. Coach wants to flesh out other options before the season is out; allow other players to be put under the burner.

[FrediKanoute]

I have no idea. I can't fathom where Grant is at. To me he has so much upside, but 2 coaches now have struggled to harness it to date. I hope that Macca has sent him back to Willy to work on some areas, not because he's had his card maked.

[jeemak]

Theres a few guys playing like Skinner and DJ that I think the coach wants one (last) decent look at.

Grant on the other hand, I think he is prepared to put more time into. He has areas he wants him to work on and if that means he misses games this year or has to play back or whatever, then so be it.

Thats my interpretation, anyway.

I think and hope your interpretation is accurate. Afterall, the only players that have kicked as may goals in a season as Grant are either old, required in the ruck, or injury prone.

If Grant's value to our list was under very close scrutiny then there's absolutely no reasonable explanation for him being played behind the ball in the two games he's played after playing his best game for the year after a lay off up forward. It beggers belief that the coaching staff would be so incredibly blind to where his talents lie, and the reasons why his talents aren't showing through.

None of our young forwards have shown anywhere near the potential Grant has shown to this point of his career, and I don't remember a developing forward on our list playing a game as well as Grant did after he came back from his lay off.

I just really struggle to see why he's in the gun for a perceived lack of effort, when every other person in the side demonstrates the same thing week in, week out, apart from the usual suspects.

[MrMahatma]

I think and hope your interpretation is accurate. Afterall, the only players that have kicked as may goals in a season as Grant are either old, required in the ruck, or injury prone.

If Grant's value to our list was under very close scrutiny then there's absolutely no reasonable explanation for him being played behind the ball in the two games he's played after playing his best game for the year after a lay off up forward. It beggers belief that the coaching staff would be so incredibly blind to where his talents lie, and the reasons why his talents aren't showing through.

None of our young forwards have shown anywhere near the potential Grant has shown to this point of his career, and I don't remember a developing forward on our list playing a game as well as Grant did after he came back from his lay off.

I just really struggle to see why he's in the gun for a perceived lack of effort, when every other person in the side demonstrates the same thing week in, week out, apart from the usual suspects.
Tanking?

[jeemak]

I doubt it.

[Ghost Dog]

I think and hope your interpretation is accurate. Afterall, the only players that have kicked as may goals in a season as Grant are either old, required in the ruck, or injury prone.

If Grant's value to our list was under very close scrutiny then there's absolutely no reasonable explanation for him being played behind the ball in the two games he's played after playing his best game for the year after a lay off up forward. It beggers belief that the coaching staff would be so incredibly blind to where his talents lie, and the reasons why his talents aren't showing through.

None of our young forwards have shown anywhere near the potential Grant has shown to this point of his career, and I don't remember a developing forward on our list playing a game as well as Grant did after he came back from his lay off.

I just really struggle to see why he's in the gun for a perceived lack of effort, when every other person in the side demonstrates the same thing week in, week out, apart from the usual suspects.

That also might explain the absence of Panos. Cannot understand if we are giving blokes like Skinner and Long Jong ( sic) a run, why Panos would not be given a burl as well. We are crying out for a big body up forward. Skinner is a roll of the dice at best.

[Mofra]

If Grant's value to our list was under very close scrutiny then there's absolutely no reasonable explanation for him being played behind the ball in the two games he's played after playing his best game for the year after a lay off up forward. It beggers belief that the coaching staff would be so incredibly blind to where his talents lie, and the reasons why his talents aren't showing through.

I was not entirely happy with Grant's last game, but you have a point here - Grant is one of our best samll forwards (forget his height) and if he's goal side of his opponent witht he ball, we goal pure & simple. With Dahl out I would have thought he'd have a role in the forward half of the ground.

[GVGjr]

I was not entirely happy with Grant's last game, but you have a point here - Grant is one of our best samll forwards (forget his height) and if he's goal side of his opponent witht he ball, we goal pure & simple. With Dahl out I would have thought he'd have a role in the forward half of the ground.


I think he has to stay and that his best football is still to come. A forward line that has Dahlhaus and Grant in it is what we should be working on.

[chef]

So(not wanting to cop the wrath of BT again;), sorry mate) but is Grant a RFA or a FA?

Do we think it's his agent exploring the opportunities or the club seeing if there's any bites?

[bornadog]

So(not wanting to cop the wrath of BT again;), sorry mate) but is Grant a RFA or a FA?

Do we think it's his agent exploring the opportunities or the club seeing if there's any bites?

Your brave :D

[G-Mo77]

So(not wanting to cop the wrath of BT again;), sorry mate) but is Grant a RFA or a FA?

Do we think it's his agent exploring the opportunities or the club seeing if there's any bites?

I'm pretty sure he's a FA.

[chef]

Your brave :D

Im a gluten for punishment:D

[BulldogBelle]

Surely he has more value staying with us than compensation picks will give us.

[Rocco Jones]

I have long been a defender of Grant as I feel players with extreme strengths and weaknesses can be harshly treated however I am not fussed about whether we keep him or not.

I love his explosive speed and his hands which suit our game style but I feel his struggles around goal really limit him. It means we have to force him up the ground and I think that exposes another weakness, his inability to regularly find the ball/he can go missing.

Fans will say 'but why did he play 19 games this season?'. We have had to play a lot of kids to round out our 22, kids who can really struggle to impact games. Great for the short term but I felt we needed another senior-ish type and Grant filled that. Next year we have Koby Stevens back to the forward/mid mix as well as Caleb Daniel and Toby McLean types being a year older.

Another issue with Grant is how his form correlates to how close his contract is to running out. I would like to keep him but strictly under our conditions.

[LostDoggy]

Torn. Really. I have hated Grant for so many years, but this season have started to come around. And now he looks likely to be gone. I don't know how I feel about it.

I thought his efforts on Saturday night were top notch, aside from his kicking, but he wasn't on his Pat Malone there.

I also agree with Rocco and see Stevens/Daniel keeping him in the twos, where he has proved he is worthless to us when not in the senior side.

I just don't know any more. I'm still hoping we bring back DFA one day!

[Ghost Dog]

I met him once, at Etihad with Greenwood. Such a powerful tall guy, and very genuine. If anyone can help him its Bevo.
Send him to the Lindsay Gillbee academy of football and get Barry Hall to coach him!
One more year and pile on the support for his kicking. He's doing everything else well, but that fundamental skill deficiency is killing us.
Don't think starting as the sub more than once helped his confidence. Thank god we are done with that.

But his speed is really suited to our frenetic style of play. Love an Avatar chase-run-down tackle.

[Raw Toast]

I'll be really disappointed if we let go of Grant or he gets a better offer elsewhere and chooses that. We/he finally found a way to start making it work this year*. His running has been elite, both forward and back, and in doing so, he's offered vital link-up work and also helped make our press pretty formidable. His kicking for goals has remained an issue, but he kicked some important goals for us, including late in the game on Saturday night, and if the (haunting) Hunter-Crameri handpass had worked, Grant would have run into the open goal that might have won it for us (Crameri could still have whacked it forward to him, but unfortunately c'est la vie).

He's become one of those players who does the little things that help make the team better. Didn't have the best game on Saturday night, but still had important moments, and his trajectory this year has been good. In addition, he's continued to show that if he could just find a bit more confidence around goals, then he could still really shine. Maybe he's asking for too much money. If so, I hope it's resolved quickly, with a 2 year contract.

*Apart from the excellent set of games late in 2013 where he looked for a moment like he might start justifying the draft pick he was selected with...

[Throughandthrough]

I have long been a defender of Grant as I feel players with extreme strengths and weaknesses can be harshly treated however I am not fussed about whether we keep him or not.

I love his explosive speed and his hands which suit our game style but I feel his struggles around goal really limit him. It means we have to force him up the ground and I think that exposes another weakness, his inability to regularly find the ball/he can go missing.

Fans will say 'but why did he play 19 games this season?'. We have had to play a lot of kids to round out our 22, kids who can really struggle to impact games. Great for the short term but I felt we needed another senior-ish type and Grant filled that. Next year we have Koby Stevens back to the forward/mid mix as well as Caleb Daniel and Toby McLean types being a year older.

Another issue with Grant is how his form correlates to how close his contract is to running out. I would like to keep him but strictly under our conditions.



+1. My sentiments exactly ..

Who do i get in the sweep? Can I have Lachie Neale please?

[SonofScray]

I'll be really disappointed if we let go of Grant or he gets a better offer elsewhere and chooses that. We/he finally found a way to start making it work this year*. His running has been elite, both forward and back, and in doing so, he's offered vital link-up work and also helped make our press pretty formidable. His kicking for goals has remained an issue, but he kicked some important goals for us, including late in the game on Saturday night, and if the (haunting) Hunter-Crameri handpass had worked, Grant would have run into the open goal that might have won it for us (Crameri could still have whacked it forward to him, but unfortunately c'est la vie).

He's become one of those players who does the little things that help make the team better. Didn't have the best game on Saturday night, but still had important moments, and his trajectory this year has been good. In addition, he's continued to show that if he could just find a bit more confidence around goals, then he could still really shine. Maybe he's asking for too much money. If so, I hope it's resolved quickly, with a 2 year contract.

*Apart from the excellent set of games late in 2013 where he looked for a moment like he might start justifying the draft pick he was selected with...

I am a fan of Jarrad and really like what he brings to the table, particularly this season where he rarely was poor, often good, sometimes very good. I didn't think he handled the whack on the schnoz very well, his form faded quickly after that which let him down a bit. In the final I was hoping he'd be more damaging with his work but for whatever reason he wasn't and I am going to judge him more harshly than his younger team mates for not delivering. If he was the last man on the list, we're doing pretty well.

A conundrum for the list manager. Head says keep him, gut says see what else is out there.

[boydogs]

Jarrad played an important role for us this year as a corridor defender/attacker. Way back in round 1 against West Coast we were well on top but they kept getting easy goals on the rebound, going straight down the middle out of defense. A lot like the first quarter against Adelaide last week. From round 2 onwards we used Jarrad to defend against that.

His speed, height and quick hands are important traits for that role, and it's an important role for our side who like to move the ball quickly out of defense and play zone defense moreso than 1 on 1. He's been OK without being outstanding but I think the role is important and suits him, but not the names thrown up to replace him in the 22 next year such as Stevens, Daniel & McLean. Wood, Crameri & Hamling would be better fits

[Sedat]

Jarrad played an important role for us this year as a corridor defender/attacker. Way back in round 1 against West Coast we were well on top but they kept getting easy goals on the rebound, going straight down the middle out of defense. A lot like the first quarter against Adelaide last week. From round 2 onwards we used Jarrad to defend against that.

His speed, height and quick hands are important traits for that role, and it's an important role for our side who like to move the ball quickly out of defense and play zone defense moreso than 1 on 1. He's been OK without being outstanding but I think the role is important and suits him, but not the names thrown up to replace him in the 22 next year such as Stevens, Daniel & McLean. Wood, Crameri & Hamling would be better fits
Our defensive running and overall team defence was thrown out the window for a while on Saturday night - it got picked apart big time on 'On The Couch'. There was some poor defensive running by our mids especially on a few occasions that gifted easy goals to Adelaide.

[stefoid]

Our defensive running and overall team defence was thrown out the window for a while on Saturday night - it got picked apart big time on 'On The Couch'. There was some poor defensive running by our mids especially on a few occasions that gifted easy goals to Adelaide.

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNn4Fha9dgo

around the 5 minute mark, they ask two coaches Bucks and Roos, to comment on' that' goal. Roos starts spouting some random bullshit and Bucks says 'no, they were both doing what they were supposed to do - it was just a magnificent kick'. If anything, Dickson was a little slow taking off after Cameron - you could see him trying to work out who was going to win the contest.. Cameron got a second or two headstart and was simply quicker than him over the distance.

[bornadog]

Most players have signed on, except Jarrad.

Come on let's make this happen please.

[chef]

Most players have signed on, except Jarrad.

Come on let's make this happen please.

Has he been offered a deal like Talia has?

[bornadog]

Has he been offered a deal like Talia has?

We don't know - no communication from the club.

[chef]

We don't know - no communication from the club.

It's a weird one as it's not like he wasn't getting a game.

[azabob]

Grants manager mid week said no contract had been offered.

[Remi Moses]

Maybe we're freeing up some space for others in the trade period .

[G-Mo77]

Maybe we're freeing up some space for others in the trade period .

Seems like it doesn't it.

[LostDoggy]

Maybe we're freeing up some space for others in the trade period .

I've been thinking along those lines. With Grant & Talia probably at around $500k -$700K of the salary cap between them, maybe we are waiting on the trade period before tying that money up. If we land a big fish in the trade period, then Talia and Grant will probably need to be traded, if not we can finalise our dealings with them.

Maybe our list managers have determined that these 2 are the ones on our list (other than kids on base wage or close) whose value is marginal, and who are expendable should we need to fit in a high value commodity.

[Doc26]

Maybe we're freeing up some space for others in the trade period .

Or given that he's an unrestricted free agent, we're chancing ourselves by waiting to test the market place for the chance of picking up an over the odds compensation pick. Worked beautifully for Melbourne last year with Frawley, granted Frawley's currency was higher.

[LostDoggy]

Or given that he's an unrestricted free agent, we're chancing ourselves by waiting to test the market place for the chance of picking up an over the odds priority pick. Worked beautifully for Melbourne last year with Frawley, granted Frawley's currency was higher.

Also, any compensation would be wiped if we recruit a FA of equal or greater value. Given we have been linked to chasing a couple of FAs (Kruezer, Leuey), the strategy of fishing Grant for a compo pick seems flaky.

[bulldogtragic]

Also, any compensation would be wiped if we recruit a FA of equal or greater value. Given we have been linked to chasing a couple of FAs (Kruezer, Leuey), the strategy of fishing Grant for a compo pick seems flaky.

Yep. Still not making any sense to me if the club hasn't offered up any contract.

[Doc26]

Also, any compensation would be wiped if we recruit a FA of equal or greater value. Given we have been linked to chasing a couple of FAs (Kruezer, Leuey), the strategy of fishing Grant for a compo pick seems flaky.

Possibly but then we've also been linked with non FAs in Martin more recently and Gorringe for some time which wouldn't effect the net loss compensation formula. I really have little idea how serious we are with Kreuzer and Leunberger.

[Doc26]

Yep. Still not making any sense to me if the club hasn't offered up any contract.

It was suggested that he has been offered a 2 year contract but I haven't had this verified. Possibly offered one of the equivalent value of a compensation pick that we might be looking for :p

[jeemak]

Grant's team may have advised the club any contract offer would need to reflect a three year term, while the club may have made it clear a maximum two year term would be offered. Hence, no contract on the table as Grant's team gauges interest in the market.

Within this scenario the agent can truthfully claim no offer is on the table and the club looks like it is playing games.

[ledge]

Apparently no other club has shown any interest.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Apparently no other club has shown any interest.

Not exactly surprising either.

[ledge]

He might have do a Martin and go back on a contract offered less than his first one, manager has seriously stuffed up
If that's the case, you would have thought the manager would have done some homework first on interest.

[hujsh]

Well he's welcome back...on severely reduced pay of course.

In fact...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWgwH0r86TE

[chef]

Apparently no other club has shown any interest.

That could be it for him then.

[ledge]

That could be it for him then.

If that's the case I am too scared to look at his draft year and see what we missed out on.
In the end he is massive failure going by his draft pick,
Don't think he ever had a big influence on winning any game or getting at least one BOG in all his years.
This year was by far his best and he gets the boot it seems.

[jeemak]

The six he kicked against Essendon and some games at the end of 2013 are the highlights.

[chef]

If that's the case I am too scared to look at his draft year and see what we missed out on.
In the end he is massive failure going by his draft pick,
Don't think he ever had a big influence on winning any game or getting at least one BOG in all his years.
This year was by far his best and he gets the boot it seems.

It's was him, Henderson or Rance:( apparently.

[G-Mo77]

Apparently no other club has shown any interest.

Wow. Surprising and embarrassing. I'm putting 2+2 together and sounds like he wants 3 years, clubs are balking at that and so are we. 2 years was on offer I was lead to believe and I hope for his sake he takes it.

[1eyedog]

Grant is lucky, his year wasn't all sparkles and glitter and for mine he should be on a year by year contract. If no-one else is interested then he has little choice but to accept our terms and perform in order to be re-contracted after 2 years. He needs to take ownership of that and have the want to improve. He needs to have confidence that he can or will or he's finished anyway.

I lament the high draft pick he cost, but then I think of Richmond and Tambling and feel a bit better.

[KT31]

If Grant doesn't have any other options, I would reduce the offer and go to a year by year proposition.
He only seems to pull his finger out in seasons his contract is expiring.

[azabob]

If that's the case I am too scared to look at his draft year and see what we missed out on.
In the end he is massive failure going by his draft pick,
Don't think he ever had a big influence on winning any game or getting at least one BOG in all his years.
This year was by far his best and he gets the boot it seems.

Don't look ledge.

Dangerfield, Henderson, Rioli, Ebert, Tarrent, Scott Selwood and a few more.

[G-Mo77]

If Grant doesn't have any other options, I would reduce the offer and go to a year by year proposition.
He only seems to pull his finger out in seasons his contract is expiring.

I wouldn't do it that way. If he's worth hanging onto for 2 years then we should offer him 2 years. Although players put clubs over a barrel so maybe I'm being too soft.

[Twodogs]

I'd welcome him back with open arms, give him his two years and make him feel part of the family. All the while telling him that's its a big mean nasty world out there. No one, not even your manager, can help you like The Club can.

All you have to do is train well and play good footy. And we may have to talk about your set shot kicking technique.

[bornadog]

Apparently no other club has shown any interest.

How do you know?

[jeemak]

How do you know?

It eludes to it in this article:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-18/trade-whispers-the-inside-word-on-the-players-looking-for-a-move

[bornadog]

He only seems to pull his finger out in seasons his contract is expiring.

You know what, that is a supporter myth. I find it extremely difficult to actually believe a player would do that.

[Remi Moses]

How is it a myth ?
He had a career 10 weeks 2 years ago ( when coming out of contract) and has his best season, when coming out of contract again .
Not a myth, an actual fact

[KT31]

It eludes to it in this article:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-18/trade-whispers-the-inside-word-on-the-players-looking-for-a-move

No mention of us and Matthew Leuenberger or any other ruckman.

[bornadog]

How is it a myth ?
He had a career 10 weeks 2 years ago ( when coming out of contract) and has his best season, when coming out of contract again .
Not a myth, an actual fact

I find it really amusing people would believe such thing.

He is in a professional sport with KPIs to reach. Those two years you mention are just a big coincendance.

[Rocco Jones]

I thought Grant was decent this season but if he follows it up with a poor season, he would be a candidate to be delisted. I think that automatically puts him in 1 year contract extension zone. That's what Redpath got and no commotion there.

[Maddog37]

Grant becomes a very good player when he chases and tackles with intent. It gives our team an extra dimension due to his speed and reach. The problem I feel he has is an inability to maintain this defensive mindset and be attacking at the same time. It is often all or nothing as when he tries to attack he does it by trying to find space and is often ignored or simply unseen by his teammates. He needs to play in a more physical manner within the corridor to take the next step.

I would like him to tag the opposition ruckman around the ground at times and exploit the mismatch with his speed.

[Ghost Dog]

Does not celebrate goals in the way other players do. Does not fight back when knocked down like other players do. I was sitting on the boundary V north one day and he got slung to the ground pretty hard by a defender.
Got up and jogged off as if nothing happened.

Late bloomer. Confidence and self belief are growing, but slowly. If he stays at the club needs a massive injection of self-belief.

[Scorlibo]

I find it really amusing people would believe such thing.

He is in a professional sport with KPIs to reach. Those two years you mention are just a big coincendance.

Agree, it's a pretty small sample size for anybody to be saying assertively that there is a connection there. Perhaps Grant's laconic body language gives people the impression he doesn't care as much as others? Strange.

[Twodogs]

Grant was injured for a lot of last season. Although he played a lot at Footscray too.

[G-Mo77]

You know what, that is a supporter myth. I find it extremely difficult to actually believe a player would do that.

I don't think it's a myth. Sometimes players step up knowing it could be this or nothing and then become complacent afterwards knowing they're guaranteed 2, 3 or more years. I'm a big NBA follower and you do see that happening a lot.

[chef]

I don't think it's a myth. Sometimes players step up knowing it could be this or nothing and then become complacent afterwards knowing they're guaranteed 2, 3 or more years. I'm a big NBA follower and you do see that happening a lot.

Yep, happens in every code.

Emmanuel Adebayor is very famous for it.

[divvydan]

I don't think it's a matter of not trying or anything. I just think there are players, as there are many people, who thrive more on external motivation than internal motivation and when the external motivation drops a little, or eases off, then the player can subconsciously do so as well.

[Rocco Jones]

I don't think it's a myth. Sometimes players step up knowing it could be this or nothing and then become complacent afterwards knowing they're guaranteed 2, 3 or more years. I'm a big NBA follower and you do see that happening a lot.


Yep, happens in every code.

Emmanuel Adebayor is very famous for it.

Yep, I don't see it as a myth either.

It doesn't just happen in every code, it happens in lots of professions. Professionals who lift or dip depending on how secure their role is.

[chef]

Yep, I don't see it as a myth either.

It doesn't just happen in every code, it happens in lots of professions. Professionals who lift or dip depending on how secure their role is.

Yep, I've had many an apprentice get their shit together once they realised they were on their last warning.

[LostDoggy]

Grants form this year has got back to 2010 standards. If anything 2010 numbers are better with a lot more goals and more tackles.

Grant is an outside player who benefits from an attacking game style and a team that is competitive. He just faded away under BMac.

Maybe Grant's form this year is just what he offers an attacking coach and a competitive team, rather than some contract year anomoly. Maybe next year with some continuity, and a base to build on, will be significantly better again.

[EasternWest]

I don't think it's a matter of not trying or anything. I just think there are players, as there are many people, who thrive more on external motivation than internal motivation and when the external motivation drops a little, or eases off, then the player can subconsciously do so as well.

I like this. It makes sense to me.

I'd like Grant to stay. I like what he brings to our side.

But if he left, it wouldn't worry me that much. And where we're at, I think it would be a terrible career move for him. His

[bornadog]

Does not celebrate goals in the way other players do. Does not fight back when knocked down like other players do. I was sitting on the boundary V north one day and he got slung to the ground pretty hard by a defender.
Got up and jogged off as if nothing happened.

Late bloomer. Confidence and self belief are growing, but slowly. If he stays at the club needs a massive injection of self-belief.

He has been very different this year, and does a lot of sledging of players and is one of the first to run in when there is a scuffle and protect the other players.

He has matured alot, and wants the ball. Often he is in a good position and he is demanding the ball. Players don't always get the ball to him, but good to see his positioning, gut running up and down the field. The change in role has done wonders for him. His last few games weren't brilliant but thet got better as his confidence went up after having broken his nose twice now.

[F'scary]

I would really like Grant to stay. We now have 3 other spots on the senior list to fill with fresh talent and 3 spots on the rookie list. Because of the relative youthfulness of our list I would be really concerned if Grant, Minson and Talia left. It seems to me that most of the players from other clubs who are in the market are all tainted in one way or another such that I would prefer to stick with these 3 known quantities, one of whom had a good year (Grant), another is reasonable and still developing (Talia) and the third, Minson is a better ruck all things considered (he is durable for one) than the others being touted around the traps at the moment.

[jeemak]

Grants form this year has got back to 2010 standards. If anything 2010 numbers are better with a lot more goals and more tackles.

Grant is an outside player who benefits from an attacking game style and a team that is competitive. He just faded away under BMac.

Maybe Grant's form this year is just what he offers an attacking coach and a competitive team, rather than some contract year anomoly. Maybe next year with some continuity, and a base to build on, will be significantly better again.

Except for the spell in 2013 when his contract was up for renewal and he produced career best form.

[Scorlibo]

Except for the spell in 2013 when his contract was up for renewal and he produced career best form.

And a great game against Collingwood in 2014 when he ate pancakes with maple syrup for breakfast.

[jeemak]

I couldn't tell you one way or the other whether his contract status has anything to do with how he performs. I just thought it important not to disregard his best patch of football for the club and its timing.

[Hotdog60]

Is the Grant situation like Shultz of Port. Maybe his after a longer deal and his manager is sniffing out any interest. In the end he may have to settle with what we are offering.
Who knows what goes on behind closed doors.

[GVGjr]

Is the Grant situation like Shultz of Port. Maybe his after a longer deal and his manager is sniffing out any interest. In the end he may have to settle with what we are offering.
Who knows what goes on behind closed doors.

If we are to believe his manager, we haven't put a contract in front of him to consider. Contract wise I think Port are doing the same with Schultz knowing they really want Dixon.

[1eyedog]

If we are to believe his manager, we haven't put a contract in front of him to consider. Contract wise I think Port are doing the same with Schultz knowing they really want Dixon.

So we're holding off potentially because we may need the cap space if who we are looking at decides to come to us? Or Grant may be part of the deal?

[GVGjr]

So we're holding off potentially because we may need the cap space if who we are looking at decides to come to us? Or Grant may be part of the deal?

Perhaps we are happy to let the market determine his value knowing we could potentially match any offer. Maybe we have clear some room with our salary cap to make a big play at our preferred target but I don't really know what our motivations are. For a young list that lacks players with over the 50 games experience it's strange we haven't done more to keep a guy who had a pretty good season.

They way we have been proactive in signing players all season I'd be sure there is a good reason why we haven't done so with Grant but the reason isn't obvious.

[ledge]

I remember after the Tom Boyd signing Peter Gordon said we don't answer to any speculation we concentrate on what we want not spend it answering the media or we wouldn't have time to recruit.
Seems its true we don't make any comments until deals are done.

[chef]

If we are to believe his manager, we haven't put a contract in front of him to consider. Contract wise I think Port are doing the same with Schultz knowing they really want Dixon.

Schultz has signed on for another season at Port.

[GVGjr]

Schultz has signed on for another season at Port.

Yep, I just read that. They will have a difficult task squeezing all the key forwards in.

[chef]

Yep, I just read that. They will have a difficult task squeezing all the key forwards in.

Yep, will be interesting who gets squeezed out to fit Dixon in.

[Smads57]

A variety of thinking from posters around Grant.

I would prefer he stays due to our need for players of his age group on our list and because he seems to be a genuinely good team mate for the other players.

Having said that, I found myself on a number of occasions this year annoyed that he had taken a mark in the forward line when there might have been a more reliable goal kicker around....

[Ghost Dog]

A variety of thinking from posters around Grant.

I would prefer he stays due to our need for players of his age group on our list and because he seems to be a genuinely good team mate for the other players.

Having said that, I found myself on a number of occasions this year annoyed that he had taken a mark in the forward line when there might have been a more reliable goal kicker around....

This is my issue. Ultimately, if he is taking marks and then missing very important shots, as he does more often than not, then that's a spot for someone else. Fowards must kick goals. Pure and simple.

[Rocco Jones]

This is my issue. Ultimately, if he is taking marks and then missing very important shots, as he does more often than not, then that's a spot for someone else. Fowards must kick goals. Pure and simple.

It's a combination of weaknesses for me. He misses shots at goal which means he has to play further up the ground however he isn't a natural ball winner. If you're going to be the 15 disposals a game type you have to be very damaging. I do love his hands, really fits our style but his weaknesses are very damaging,

[Ghost Dog]

It's a combination of weaknesses for me. He misses shots at goal which means he has to play further up the ground however he isn't a natural ball winner. If you're going to be the 15 disposals a game type you have to be very damaging. I do love his hands, really fits our style but his weaknesses are very damaging,

Well put Rocco. Maybe this sounds a bit harsh, and I like the guy, but if he continually misses easy goals under pressure, why should he stay in the team? It's not like others can't do the other stuff. His year, cumulative with the rest of his career has been so line ball it is a hard one to call. An enigma, Mr Grant. Stay on, let it rip Jarred. Throw him down back for a bit? Why not?

My guess is the club is softening negotiations by allowing reality to sink in, as shown by lack of interest by other clubs.

[Rocco Jones]

Well put Rocco. Maybe this sounds a bit harsh, and I like the guy, but if he continually misses easy goals under pressure, why should he stay in the team? It's not like others can't do the other stuff. His year, cumulative with the rest of his career has been so line ball it is a hard one to call. An enigma, Mr Grant. Stay on, let it rip Jarred. Throw him down back for a bit? Why not?

My guess is the club is softening negotiations by allowing reality to sink in, as shown by lack of interest by other clubs.

I think he is the team because we are we young that we struggled to fill out the 22 with guys who can impact the game. His inability to find much of the ball wasn't a big factor in selection as guys like Webb and Dale struggled even more so.

With Libba and Stevens back, as well as McLean and Daniel having another year of development in direct competition for his kind of role...I think he is going to have to go up another cog to be a regular part of the team. Could be the making or breaking of him.

I would like him to stay on a one year contract to have some more depth. See how he goes, maybe he goes up that cog. Maybe he iis the delist pile.

[Ghost Dog]

He may not find the ball much but he uses it pretty well. IF only he could forget he's kicking for goal and pretend he's passing it to someone in the stands. I'm sure he would nail it every time.
BT had a point commentating our final, in that the way he holds it loses him 5 or so metres on the kick.
Have we every tried him in defence? If so, how did he go?

[boydogs]

BT had a point commentating our final, in that the way he holds it loses him 5 or so metres on the kick

Which was followed by Grant kicking the goal :)

[Topdog]

He is probably in our 15-20 range at the moment. I'd keep him for another year but fully expect him to not be in the 22 at the end of next season.

[Ghost Dog]

Which was followed by Grant kicking the goal :)

Yes! Was stoked. And good to see the boys get around and pat the microphone.

[Hot_Doggies]

He is probably in our 15-20 range at the moment. I'd keep him for another year but fully expect him to not be in the 22 at the end of next season.


So why keep him?

[Bulldog4life]

He may not find the ball much but he uses it pretty well. IF only he could forget he's kicking for goal and pretend he's passing it to someone in the stands. I'm sure he would nail it every time.
BT had a point commentating our final, in that the way he holds it loses him 5 or so metres on the kick.
Have we every tried him in defence? If so, how did he go?

It sounds so simple GD.:)

[Rocco Jones]

So why keep him?

Depth player that suits our style.

[1eyedog]

So why keep him?

I think its not so much Grant trying to fit into our game plan as much as it is our players trying to fit into the way Jarrad plays. If he could get some synergy with the team (bearing in mind it is a new and developing game plan) I think he (and the team) would get the rewards. He is usually in the right spots (such as ready to take the handball over the top that never came from Crammers in the EF because Lachie missed his target). He works hard and has some assets but he needs to be happy with 2 years.

[Cyberdoggie]

I don't see the point of keeping someone who we think is at best a depth player and is in the peak of his career at 26-27.
Let's see what we can get for him in the open market, and if the price/compensation is good then that is far better than holding onto a senior player that is not a walk up start.

The alternative is that we hold onto him but he doesn't get games due to others and young players getting preference and then he losing any value he potential has.

[bulldogtragic]

I think its not so much Grant trying to fit into our game plan as much as it is our players trying to fit into the way Jarrad plays. If he could get some synergy with the team (bearing in mind it is a new and developing game plan) I think he (and the team) would get the rewards. He is usually in the right spots (such as ready to take the handball over the top that never came from Crammers in the EF because Lachie missed his target). He works hard and has some assets but he needs to be happy with 2 years.

I would comment each week about him being in the goal square alone after out running an opponent, or being free for the play to go through him. When the tapes get a good working out over the next few months, if JG is still there and still getting into a lot of dangerous spots next year I'd expect that he will impact games ever further.

[Rocco Jones]

I don't see the point of keeping someone who we think is at best a depth player and is in the peak of his career at 26-27.
Let's see what we can get for him in the open market, and if the price/compensation is good then that is far better than holding onto a senior player that is not a walk up start.

The alternative is that we hold onto him but he doesn't get games due to others and young players getting preference and then he losing any value he potential has.

I don't think he is a depth player 'at best'. I think it is his base. We are a very young side and need players around the 26-27 mark.

That being said, I'm also happy for him to go. Basically not fussed.

[Greystache]

I would comment each week about him being in the goal square alone after out running an opponent, or being free for the play to go through him. When the tapes get a good working out over the next few months, if JG is still there and still getting into a lot of dangerous spots next year I'd expect that he will impact games ever further.

It's not through gut running and burning off an opponent that he finds himself in the goal square on his own. He runs forward of the play when the ball's in dispute and opposition team don't bother manning him up, because for the once every week or two it comes off, they effectively play 17 vs 18 where the ball actually is. They're comfortable conceding the occasional cheapie for the opportunity to win the ball in dispute.

[bulldogtragic]

It's not through gut running and burning off an opponent that he finds himself in the goal square on his own. He runs forward of the play when the ball's in dispute and opposition team don't bother manning him up, because for the once every week or two it comes off, they effectively play 17 vs 18 where the ball actually is. They're comfortable conceding the occasional cheapie for the opportunity to win the ball in dispute.

He's also good for rebound 50's and defence spoils too so the stats sheet say. But taking that comment at face value and if Bevo drops players not doing what he wants, and Grant played 19 including a final, perhaps that is what Bevo wants.

[1eyedog]

It's not through gut running and burning off an opponent that he finds himself in the goal square on his own. He runs forward of the play when the ball's in dispute and opposition team don't bother manning him up, because for the once every week or two it comes off, they effectively play 17 vs 18 where the ball actually is. They're comfortable conceding the occasional cheapie for the opportunity to win the ball in dispute.

But this is true of every team. Isaac Smith is a good example, purely outside.

[bornadog]

But this is true of every team. Isaac Smith is a good example, purely outside.

It is those cheapies out the back you have to watch out for. ;)

[1eyedog]

It is those cheapies out the back you have to watch out for. ;)

If we get Bennell I'm happy to shop Grant.

[Greystache]

He's also good for rebound 50's and defence spoils too so the stats sheet say. But taking that comment at face value and if Bevo drops players not doing what he wants, and Grant played 19 including a final, perhaps that is what Bevo wants.

We were a very young team that struggled to put 22 players on the field that could contribute in any meaningful way throughout the season. He was dropped and hasn't been offered a contract for next season, that says a fair bit about what Bevo wants.

[Rocco Jones]

But this is true of every team. Isaac Smith is a good example, purely outside.

Big difference is that Issac Smith beats Jarrad Grant in every stat!

8 more disposals per game, 3 more marks, 1 more tackle, 3 more score involvements and a goal more per 2 or so games.

[1eyedog]

Big difference is that Issac Smith beats Jarrad Grant in every stat!

8 more disposals per game, 3 more marks, 1 more tackle, 3 more score involvements and a goal more per 2 or so games.

Only because Hawthorn have bedded down their game plan, get the ball to him and protect / free him up and has done so effectively for a number of years. Jarrad's had a new role out of the forward line for what, 2 years? Plus, we are still developing a game plan. You can see what Bevo is trying to do with him / wants him to do, it's just not quite working yet.

[Templeton31]

On the plus for Jarrad, or Microphone Head as they call him, he made the triple m footy team of year on Saturday. :D

[Greystache]

Big difference is that Issac Smith beats Jarrad Grant in every stat!

8 more disposals per game, 3 more marks, 1 more tackle, 3 more score involvements and a goal more per 2 or so games.

And more importantly breaks the game open with run and long kicking. I would imagine metres gained would be poles apart. Teams are happy to leave Grant free because he needs to be fed the ball in space, then goes sideways with it to another player in space, there's no hurt factor. Teams try to shut down Smith because it kills Hawthorn's ability to move the ball forward.

[Rocco Jones]

Only because Hawthorn have bedded down their game plan, get the ball to him and protect / free him up and has done so effectively for a number of years. Jarrad's had a new role out of the forward line for what, 2 years? Plus, we are still developing a game plan. You can see what Bevo is trying to do with him / wants him to do, it's just not quite working yet.

That and Issac Smith is a lot better at footy than Jarrad Grant.

[bulldogtragic]

We were a very young team that struggled to put 22 players on the field that could contribute in any meaningful way throughout the season. He was dropped and hasn't been offered a contract for next season, that says a fair bit about what Bevo wants.

Cmon struggled. Tom Boyd, Jong, Hrovat, Crameri, Talia, Hunter, Macrae and others:

A. All of the above got dropped too. That ipso facto means nothing.
B. All were playing reserves at different points while Grant was getting AFL games - So Grant was the only listed player to be gifted games for the length of the season while every other player was forced to lift and stay lifted or not get a game.
C. We didn't have a massive injury list
D. When Grant was dropped his VFL form was very good and that's why he got promoted
E. Contractual status says more about McCartney than Bevo wants
F. Grant's manager may have said only put a 3 year deal down or nothing at all. We don't know.

I get you don't like him as a player, but that post is pretty thin on for anything like a coherent and insightful comment with all my respects Ricky.

[bulldogtragic]

How does Jarrad Grant get compared with Isaac Smith. We may as well pot Mitch Wallis for not being as good a midfielder as Gary Ablett Jnr. Talk about comparing apples with oranges.

[Ozza]

Yes, Isaac Smith as a comparison to Jarrad Grant is a monstrously long bow.

But on the whole - Grant being open and not being used examples - for me, I can only deduce that it is Grant's fault if he gets missed. He is obviously not loud enough. Even in 'that play' in the elimination final when Hunter handballed over Crameri's head - Grant was loose on the southern side with nobody in front of him. You've just got to make yourself seen by being heard.

[1eyedog]

That and Issac Smith is a lot better at footy than Jarrad Grant.

He is at the moment. We need to use Jarrad better. Isaac Smith wasn't better than Jarrad Grant at the end of 2013. Jarrad's definitely got it it's a matter of whether he and the club believe he can do it.

For the record I'm not comparing them, I'm comparing the potential for like roles and using them the same ways. I'm not saying they are on par as players.

[bulldogtragic]

He is at the moment. We need to use Jarrad better. Isaac Smith wasn't better than Jarrad Grant at the end of 2013. Jarrad's definitely got it it's a matter of whether he and the club believe he can do it.

For the record I'm not comparing them, I'm comparing the potential for like roles and using them the same ways. I'm not saying they are on par as players.

That makes some sense. Look at WCE last year to this year. They underperformed last year with the new gameplan and this year when it clicked fringe players looked like rolls royces. I think Bevo has many more strings to our gameplan and if there are along what Clarkson and Simpson are doing, then a player like Grant may just flourish. If Grant was hit every time he was open or free forward we'd be lauding him like Wood, Wally and Dicko for taking the next step.

But we're just going in circles again. He will get a contract or he won't.

[Greystache]

Cmon struggled. Tom Boyd, Jong, Hrovat, Crameri, Talia, Hunter, Macrae and others:

A. All of the above got dropped too. That ipso facto means nothing.
B. All were playing reserves at different points while Grant was getting AFL games - So Grant was the only listed player to be gifted games for the length of the season while every other player was forced to lift and stay lifted or not get a game.
C. We didn't have a massive injury list
D. When Grant was dropped his VFL form was very good and that's why he got promoted
E. Contractual status says more about McCartney than Bevo wants
F. Grant's manager may have said only put a 3 year deal down or nothing at all. We don't know.

I get you don't like him as a player, but that post is pretty thin on for anything like a coherent and insightful comment with all my respects Ricky.

I didn't say he was gifted, more so we didn't have enough experienced depth to force him out. Our midfield depth was a weakness all season, especially when both Libba and Stevens were out. Dale and Daniel in particular wouldn't have played as many games as they did if we had more experienced depth available.

[Ghost Dog]

Jarrad GRANT

#1 Western Bulldogs

Age: 26yr 2mth Games: 80 Born: Jul 06, 1989
Height: 193cm Weight: 83kg Position: FWD
Dream Team Profile


2015 Digest: Entering the last of a two-year deal and in all likelihood an AFL career defining season. An early foot injury prevented the former top 10 draft prospect from replicating his late 2013 form and he ended up playing just four senior matches. While Liam Jones is gone the addition of Tom Boyd and the emergence of Stewart Crameri and Jake Stringer makes the 25-year-old’s task tougher.

2015 NAB Cup: Played arguably his best game for the club in 10-goal romp. Has Luke Beveridge unlocked the key to success?

2015 Season

1 WCE Sub. On final term and made a couple of darting runs. Hit post with flying shot. 1
2 Rich One goal and involved in a few passages. 4
3 Haw Tried to work himself into game but couldn’t. 4
4 Adel Picked up by Smith initially. Took a screamer second term. Vastly improved. 6
5 VFL Responded well to AFL axe to be among the Dogs’ best. -
6 VFL Bye. -
7 VFL Booted four goals and was too good form Geelong defenders. -
8 VFL Three goals in opening half then rested. -
9 GWS Started on a wing and outran Scully and Whitfield. Sealing goal early last term. 6
10 Port Five clearances and five inside-50s, won six hit-outs as the third man up. 7
12 Bris On wing and a positive element in winning over 20 touches. 6
13 StK Continues to be a contributor in the wing role. 5
14 Carl Good early goal from wing and is building with confidence. 6
15 GCS Decent numbers but didn’t have a great impact on contest. 4
16 Geel One goal but couldn’t get into game to any great degree. Two marks. 4
17 Coll Sub. Had a few touches in final term. 2
18 Ess OK without making a huge statement. Run from back half a highlight. 5
19 Port Tried and kept presenting on the lead, used it well when he got it. 6
20 Melb Three first-term goals and linked well pressing up the ground. 7
21 WCE Needed to have more of a say in the game. 3
22 NM Not significant apart for one big mark, and subbed off at last change 3
23 Bris Used the ball well.


Source: SEN AFL player ratings

[Rocco Jones]

Part of a one year deal is we may be struggling to delist players next year. If Bob, Boyd and Morris don't fall away dramatically, we must keep them. The only guys coming out of contract at the end of 2016 that I would not offer an extension now to are:
- Prudden (make it or break it year, I don't see much in him but great attitude etc)
- Minson (would be already gone you'd think if he wasn't contracted)
- Hamilton (started well, then went quiet/meant to be home sick)
- Campbell (I think if Will goes, he stays. Not a huge fan of his skill set but I would offer an extension unless he struggles next year)
- Redpath (bit similar to Campbell)

[bornadog]

Season in Review: (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2015-09-24/season-review-jarrad-grant) Including highlights of Melbourne match

Season in short:


After an interrupted 2014 season due to injury, Jarrad Grant played 19 games in the senior team in 2015, taking the 26-year-old’s career tally to 83 games in eight seasons.


Despite a month in the VFL from rounds five to eight, Grant worked his way back in to the side in round nine against the Giants and played every game for the remainder of the season.


The forward spent more time across the wing through the middle of the season, under coach Luke Beveridge’s mantra of versatility.


He assumed his normal role in the forward line in the latter parts of 2015, where he produced his best game for the season in round 20.


Notching up 20 disposals and three goals in the Dogs’ round 20 win against Melbourne, Grant kicked all three majors in the opening term.



The stat that mattered:


Grant collected a season-high 22-disposals in the Bulldogs’ Round 12 72-point win, with a career-high six tackles in round six against Port Adelaide.


What they said:


“I’ve spent most of my career as a forward, you’ve obviously got a dour defender following you around for most of the day. The wing gives you a lot more freedom, and the ability to cover the whole ground, I’ve enjoyed it.” – Grant in July 2015

[Drunken Bum]

Stevo saying Grants gone

[AndrewP6]

Stevo saying Grants gone

Was just about to post that. Whilst searching, I saw at least six threads titled "Jarrad Grant". And that was only on the first page!

[LostDoggy]

Bit sad. I'm sure someone will find a place for him. Hope we get a trade rather than a straight delisting.

[KT31]

Delisting doesn't make sense to me, surely there has to be more to it.

[strebla]

Is he not a free agent it may have been his choice.

[ledge]

Delisting doesn't make sense to me, surely there has to be more to it.

If no other team is interested, what else can you do ?

[ReLoad]

If spindles ends up leaving we have pretty much cleaned the house with both him and Ayce gone. The question is, who is our next Polarising player? ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Stevo saying Grants gone

Quitting or sacking?

[G-Mo77]

Quitting or sacking?

He'll be delisted or traded apparently.

[bulldogtragic]

He'll be delisted or traded apparently.

We can't trade him as a new club doesn't have to trade. He's an unrestricted free agent??

[ledge]

Trade him to Deer Park they seem to have a team of ex AFL, might get a decent trade from them.

[Mofra]

Delist him?
Seriously?

For mine he's no lock to be best 22 (I'd expect the addition of Stevens & Libba and any natural improvement in McLean will make his 2016 difficult) but with a ridiculously young side we'd take 4 picks at the ND if we delist him, is he really worse than any likely 4th round pick we'll take in a weak draft?

[whythelongface]

Disappointing if true. Whilst not setting the world on fire, for mine, he was still a required player. It is a strange decision based on his output for this year and that he played the majority of games. The coaching team obviously feel we have younger players that can fulfill his role next. Fair enough if that is the case.

He was a player that I really hoped would succeed. For some reason he was up there as one of my current favourite players. Maybe because he was much maligned (fair enough as he was a top 5 pick) and a player we were also hoping would reach his full potential.

[bornadog]

Disappointing if true. Whilst not setting the world on fire, for mine, he was still a required player. It is a strange decision based on his output for this year and that he played the majority of games. The coaching team obviously feel we have younger players that can fulfill his role next. Fair enough if that is the case.

He was a player that I really hoped would succeed. For some reason he was up there as one of my current favourite players. Maybe because he was much maligned (fair enough as he was a top 5 pick) and a player we were also hoping would reach his full potential.

We will see what happens but as you say strange decision if true. We can't afford to keep offloading players in the 25 to 28 year old bracket. I am sure we would still love to see Harbrow, Ward, Higgins and even Josh Hill at the dogs, but that is another story.

[bulldogtragic]

Delist him?
Seriously?

For mine he's no lock to be best 22 (I'd expect the addition of Stevens & Libba and any natural improvement in McLean will make his 2016 difficult) but with a ridiculously young side we'd take 4 picks at the ND if we delist him, is he really worse than any likely 4th round pick we'll take in a weak draft?

I don't understand how he falls into the delisting category. It makes no sense for a guy who played pretty much all year and had his best year yet. If another club put a three year deal of $400,000 a year them I can understand waiting to ask the AFL about potential compo. But delisting and getting absolutely nothing doesn't seem logical...

[Bulldog Joe]

This may be the first issue we have from salary cap perspective.

Grant would be on a higher wage than a new draftee and with the need to sign on the young stars, we may just be prudent in deciding that the $100K or so that he uses above a draftee may be better saved for other priorities.

Additionally we may consider that the development of McLean, Dale and Webb simply means that we cover everything that Jarrad offers.

[bulldogtragic]

This may be the first issue we have from salary cap perspective.

Grant would be on a higher wage than a new draftee and with the need to sign on the young stars, we may just be prudent in deciding that the $100K or so that he uses above a draftee may be better saved for other priorities.

Additionally we may consider that the development of McLean, Dale and Webb simply means that we cover everything that Jarrad offers.

That's a solid argument for shopping him or seeking out fa compo. But delisting?

[Ghost Dog]

6 months ago they were writing articles about how he was thriving on the wing.
Surely worth a one year contract at AFL level?

[Cyberdoggie]

This may be the first issue we have from salary cap perspective.

Grant would be on a higher wage than a new draftee and with the need to sign on the young stars, we may just be prudent in deciding that the $100K or so that he uses above a draftee may be better saved for other priorities.

Additionally we may consider that the development of McLean, Dale and Webb simply means that we cover everything that Jarrad offers.

Perhaps with recent signings, ie Bont long term and the potential to pick up Carlisle for example, they may need the extra space.

I hope we aren't pushing it that close to be honest, I know our elder statesmen aren't far off retiring and that may free up some cash but with success comes higher wages. We will have to pay more to keep Stringer and co as their performances improve.

[Happy Days]

This may be the first issue we have from salary cap perspective.

Grant would be on a higher wage than a new draftee and with the need to sign on the young stars, we may just be prudent in deciding that the $100K or so that he uses above a draftee may be better saved for other priorities.

Additionally we may consider that the development of McLean, Dale and Webb simply means that we cover everything that Jarrad offers.


That's a solid argument for shopping him or seeking out fa compo. But delisting?

I'm thinking Joe's right, and we tried and couldn't get anything.

Whatever this sucks, I'll miss you Jarrad and never forget you ending Josh Bootsma's career.

[bornadog]

This may be the first issue we have from salary cap perspective.

Grant would be on a higher wage than a new draftee and with the need to sign on the young stars, we may just be prudent in deciding that the $100K or so that he uses above a draftee may be better saved for other priorities.

Additionally we may consider that the development of McLean, Dale and Webb simply means that we cover everything that Jarrad offers.

Perhaps the offer being made is not what he expected and his manager decided to shop him around and see if he can get more.

I can't see any other reason. To me he is a wanted player.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'll just wait and see what happens here. Can't believe we would just out and out delist him.

[LostDoggy]

Is anything confirmed?

[bulldogtragic]

Is anything confirmed?

Nothing. Innuendo at this point.

[Ozza]

Some more innuendo....but, noticed that on the club app - they've been reviewing the season of individual players.

Skipped #1...and have now done #'s 2,3, 4, 5 & 6.

[bornadog]

Some more innuendo....but, noticed that on the club app - they've been reviewing the season of individual players.

Skipped #1...and have now done #'s 2,3, 4, 5 & 6.

Don't believe that is correct.

See review here: http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?10993-Jarrad-Grant/page13

[Ghost Dog]

I'm thinking Joe's right, and we tried and couldn't get anything.

Whatever this sucks, I'll miss you Jarrad and never forget you ending Josh Bootsma's career.

I don't get the Bootsma part. What happened?

[Greystache]

Whatever this sucks, I'll miss you Jarrad and never forget you ending Josh Bootsma's career.

He did?

Last time Bootsma played against the Bulldogs he took Liam Jones to the cleaners. It practically ended his career for everyone but Carlton bizarrely.

Snapchat ended Bootsma's career. Well that and Cousins deciding to breed!

[Happy Days]

I don't get the Bootsma part. What happened?


He did?

Last time Bootsma played against the Bulldogs he took Liam Jones to the cleaners. It practically ended his career for everyone but Carlton bizarrely.

Snapchat ended Bootsma's career. Well that and Cousins deciding to breed!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QDsanfcdxg

@ 1:10 - I defy you to tell me you don't see a little piece of Bootsma die right there on the field.

[stefoid]

If spindles ends up leaving we have pretty much cleaned the house with both him and Ayce gone. The question is, who is our next Polarising player? ;)

Jake Carlilse?

[bornadog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QDsanfcdxg

@ 1:10 - I defy you to tell me you don't see a little piece of Bootsma die right there on the field.

That just goes to show he can play. Loved the way you backed your arguement HD

[Greystache]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QDsanfcdxg

@ 1:10 - I defy you to tell me you don't see a little piece of Bootsma die right there on the field.

Yet was still one of the best games of his career. Doing a hamstring in the first 10 mins also would've made the top 5!

[bornadog]

Yet was still one of the best games of his career. Doing a hamstring in the first 10 mins also would've made the top 5!

delete due to misunderstanding

[soupman]

I hope we aren't pushing it that close to be honest, I know our elder statesmen aren't far off retiring and that may free up some cash but with success comes higher wages. We will have to pay more to keep Stringer and co as their performances improve.

Could we be front loading contracts which would fill up the salary cap?

Considering we would have used less than 95% of the cap this season, which means we could use 105% of it next year and 100% the year after, without any big $$$ signings aside from Boyd, I hope we are filling up the gap by frontloading as much as possible of the Boyd deal and possibly others.

Maybe this is why the club is happy to get rid of Grant, seeing as even though he is a regular 22 player he is on the fringe and would command something in the $300k's probably. If we get rid of him fro a draftee we have an extra $200k we can knock off some of our young stars like Bont so that we aren't in such a bind as they come out of contract.

[Greystache]

where is the ignore stupid comments button when you need it.

What's that supposed to mean?

[G-Mo77]

We've committed to all our draftees so taking a wild swing at why Grant's gone? I'm guessing it's financial. The kids we've invested in possibly will overtake Grant and come at a cheaper rate. We're apparently in the mix for a big FA so that might cause a shove in Grant's direction. I'm not a huge fan of Grant but think he's worth something at least, disappointing for him.

[Ozza]

where is the ignore stupid comments button when you need it.

Pretty sure Greystache was referring to Bootsma.

[bornadog]

Pretty sure Greystache was referring to Bootsma.


What's that supposed to mean?

Sorry GREY, I misunderstood. I will delete my stupid comment.

[Ghost Dog]

Bootsma and Grant going head to head. Battle of the twigs.
I actually think the right club, maybe Sydney could have done something with Tutt. Jones was the greatest mark never paid.

McCartney was not our greatest coach but at least he hated soft run-past-the-contest players as much as I do.
That's the part of Grant's game he's improved a lot, too late perhaps.

[LostDoggy]

I don't count Grant as a recruiting howler in the manner of a Jordan Macmahon.

To me he is more of an unfulfilled talent for reasons that a recruiter could not reasonably foresee.

Did JG miss a key year because he stood on a stingray barb during an Altona beach recovery session (or something similar)?

Sometimes players who should've been very good, even great, just don't get it done and luck plays a part.

Not necessarily defending Clayton though, his overall record is decidedly mixed.

[Scorlibo]

Grant would have to be the most discussed player in woof's history.

I wish him all the best and hope that he can make it work at another club. Maybe Eade and Clayton will bring him to the Gold Coast?

[Ghost Dog]

Grant would have to be the most discussed player in woof's history.

I wish him all the best and hope that he can make it work at another club. Maybe Eade and Clayton will bring him to the Gold Coast?

Missy Higgins would have to be a contender.

[The Underdog]

I wonder whether the fact that Grant was playing as a wingman coupled with the promising seasons from McLean and Dale (as well as an excess of flanker/wing types) has led to him being viewed as surplus to requirements. I'm not sure I agree with the call on him but am interested to see what we do in the next few weeks.
And who knows, if nobody signs him, maybe we'll bring him back on the rookie list :)

[Remi Moses]

I agree with BJ that they're looking to free up some space

[stefoid]

Grant would have to be the most discussed player in woof's history.

I wish him all the best and hope that he can make it work at another club. Maybe Eade and Clayton will bring him to the Gold Coast?

hmm. maybe

[hujsh]

I don't count Grant as a recruiting howler in the manner of a Jordan Macmahon.


I think that's unfair. He was a good player. Sure one day he suddenly forgot how to kick and make decisions on where to kick, but when that happened we got Ward for him and the Jack for Ward. So in hindsight a great pick

[bornadog]

I think that's unfair. He was a good player. Sure one day he suddenly forgot how to kick and make decisions on where to kick, but when that happened we got Ward for him and the Jack for Ward. So in hindsight a great pick

He played some pretty good games and stood up in the 2006 elimination final, probably best on the ground. Something went wrong in his last year with us, and lost confidence.

[hujsh]

He played some pretty good games and stood up in the 2006 elimination final, probably best on the ground. Something went wrong in his last year with us, and lost confidence.

I'll remember him for 2 things. The running goal from 50 against Adelaide in 2006 and hitting an opposition player on the chest who was equidistant from 2 bulldogs. I agree he was good. His fall was fast and spectacular though

[stefoid]

I'll remember him for 2 things. The running goal from 50 against Adelaide in 2006 and hitting an opposition player on the chest who was equidistant from 2 bulldogs. I agree he was good. His fall was fast and spectacular though

Ill always remember him for losing the tigers pick #1 in the draft when he kicked the winning goal against melbourne. The richmond board would have been cursing him at the time, but Melbourne then got scully + trengrove while richmond got Martin, so alls well that ends well.

[Ghost Dog]

Ill always remember him for losing the tigers pick #1 in the draft when he kicked the winning goal against melbourne. The richmond board would have been cursing him at the time, but Melbourne then got scully + trengrove while richmond got Martin, so alls well that ends well.

Trengrove would have been a better player at another club. The decision to make him captain was silly, so early on.
Not sure about Scully.

[bornadog]

Grant has been offered a one year contract, but wants two so will exercise Free agency to see what is out there.

[Murphy'sLore]

So he jumped, not pushed?

[bornadog]

So he jumped, not pushed?

Doesn't sound like he is pushed out, but now in limbo to test the market. I guess his manager is advising him.

[Missy]

Jarrad has been offered nothing from the Western Bulldogs despite what is either being reported or summised.

[KT31]

Jarrad has been offered nothing from the Western Bulldogs despite what is either being reported or summised.

Know for fact or innuendo ?
Source ?

[Missy]

Lets just say that i am closer to Jarrad than anyone on this board and what are "actually" the facts need to be stated so that posters can make comments on what the true position is

[G-Mo77]

Jarrad has been offered nothing from the Western Bulldogs despite what is either being reported or summised.


Lets just say that i am closer to Jarrad than anyone on this board and what are "actually" the facts need to be stated so that posters can make comments on what the true position is

Care to state the actual facts then if everything is so incorrect?

[Ghost Dog]

FWIT, I wish the club had offered him another year. Clearly his best year so far and getting better. It's annoying to have players go on to succeed at other clubs after developing them for lengthy periods.

[azabob]

Did BT create a new user name? Or is it Shaun Higgins?

Jokes, Missy, Jokes.

So in all seriousness who is Grants player manager?

[bulldogtragic]

Did BT create a new user name? Or is it Shaun Higgins?

Jokes, Missy, Jokes.

So in all seriousness who is Grants player manager?

If we put Jarrad in between Missy and I, and called out his name he'd come to me. Ner.

[Missy]

Perhaps you should read the first post.

[G-Mo77]

Perhaps you should read the first post.

I did and you said he's been offered nothing? Is that it?

[Axe Man]

So in all seriousness who is Grants player manager?

His manager is Anthony McConville.

[bornadog]

Perhaps you should read the first post.

Well what is the situation? Does the club want to let him go? Does he want to go?

[chef]

Perhaps you should read the first post.

So he's gone for good Missy?