Analysing the Drafts: Cats and Dogs 1999

[Bulldog Revolution]

I love my draft history and the 1999 AFL draft and trade period is an interesting snapshot of how the Cats and Dogs built the lists they currently have now. Many independent observers would think that Geelongs Stephen Wells and the Bulldogs Scott Clayton are two of the better recruiters around.

Geelong Traded:

Michael Mansfield for pick #31 (Paul Chapman)
Leigh Colbert and pick #53 (Clayton Lassock) for Cameron Mooney and pick #15 (David Spriggs)

Geelong selected:

#8 Joel Corey, #15 David Spriggs, #17 Ezra Bray, #23 Daniel Foster, #31 Paul Chapman, #38 Cameron Ling, #47 Corey Enright

Bulldogs Traded:

Leon Cameron for pick #37 (Mitch Hahn) and pick #66 (Ryan Hargrave)
Brett Montgommery and pick #28 (Brent Guerra) for Nathan Eagleton
Stephen Powell for pick #35 (Patrick Wiggins)
Michael Marting for Trent Bartlett and pick #32 (Daniel Giansiracusa)

Bulldogs selected:

#13 Robert Murphy, #28 Daniel Giansiracusa, #35 Patrick Wiggins, #37 Mitch Hahn, #43 Lindsay Gilbee, #58 Patrick Bowden, #66 Ryan Hargrave

In you look at the teams now the:

The Cats have emerged with Mooney (132 games for the Cats), Corey (150 games), Chapman (135), Ling (158) and Enright (122) as bonafied senior players

The Dogs have emerged with Eagleton (157 games for the Dogs), Murphy (127),
Giansiracusa (125), Gilbee (116), Hahn (112), Hargrave (116) as bonafied senior players

[southerncross]

Terrific draft for both teams. Chapman makes the big difference. Over the last couple of seasons he has matured into a real match winner.

[MrMahatma]

Murphy and Gilbee are the two big ones for us, with Gia and Hahn still yet to reach what they COULD be, and Shaggy a solid contributor.

Great draft. If you could do that every 2 or 3 years the list would always be in good health.

Was that meant to be a good draft that year? Or was it just really good recruiting?

[mjp]

Was that meant to be a good draft that year? Or was it just really good recruiting?

There are good kids available every year...but you need a bit of luck and a bit more luck and a bit of skill to find them.

A player you really want might be taken one turn before your 5th rounder and turn out to be a star...you should have used your 4th rounder...on the other hand, a player you want to take might be taken one slot before you in the first round and turn out to be a drug dealing, injury prone malcontent....you dodged a bullet.

It is swings and roundabouts. Every team has horror stories of drafting (and trading) as well as some big wins, in almost equal measure...the problem (as everyone will tell you) with our picks has been that all our horror stories have been with tall forwards (Wells and Walsh and on it goes) and all our successes with mids (Cross and Boyd etc)...the first rounders like Cooney and Griffen, well, they were always going to be good players so I wont count them. But again, you have got to be lucky...imagine if we had finished bottom the year Riewoldt was available rather than the year Cooney was the man????

[Sockeye Salmon]

There are good kids available every year...but you need a bit of luck and a bit more luck and a bit of skill to find them.

A player you really want might be taken one turn before your 5th rounder and turn out to be a star...you should have used your 4th rounder...on the other hand, a player you want to take might be taken one slot before you in the first round and turn out to be a drug dealing, injury prone malcontent....you dodged a bullet.

It is swings and roundabouts. Every team has horror stories of drafting (and trading) as well as some big wins, in almost equal measure...the problem (as everyone will tell you) with our picks has been that all our horror stories have been with tall forwards (Wells and Walsh and on it goes) and all our successes with mids (Cross and Boyd etc)...the first rounders like Cooney and Griffen, well, they were always going to be good players so I wont count them. But again, you have got to be lucky...imagine if we had finished bottom the year Riewoldt was available rather than the year Cooney was the man????

St. Kilda hit the double jackpot. Not only were the only team that qualified for a priority pick that year - meaning picks 1 & 2 - Reiwoldt and Koschitzke were sitting there waiting to be picked.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Was that meant to be a good draft that year? Or was it just really good recruiting?


I dont know but Melbourne also had a great draft getting #19 Brad Green and #64 Cameron Bruce as well as #20 Paul Wheatley and #50 Mathew Whelan. You do get the feeling Clayton and Wells etc felt it was a good draft to get lots of picks in.

I remember writing to the club and encouraging them to draft #62 Ben Johnson and there are so many other great later picks in there #56 Ryan Okeefe (aka one of Dry Rots love children), #34 Leon Davis, #29 Adam Hunter as well as super studs Pavlich and JBrown



There are good kids available every year

I could not agree more with you MJP - there is always loads of talent there - you only have to look at Westhoff this year - the challenge is assessing where players will be selected. The Clayton article last year gave a very interesting account of knowing exactly where players would go, and who we would be selecting from in particular rounds.



St. Kilda hit the double jackpot. Not only were the only team that qualified for a priority pick that year - meaning picks 1 & 2 - Reiwoldt and Koschitzke were sitting there waiting to be picked.

Exactly right - getting to select cant miss key position talent is really dependent on the year you pick early. You have to credit Clayton for not reaching on too many Kepler Bradley types and instead selecting Farren Ray who is going to really kick on.

[dog town]

I think sometimes we underplay development of the draft picks once they are at a club. Some clubs are better than others at bringing their talent up to the senior level and this is the part that the recruiter has little control over. I sometimes wonder how certain players would have gone at other clubs.

If Jordan Mcmahon never gets any better than he currently is then who is to blame? I think everyone can see that he has all the attributes as a player so if a player does not kick on despite having all the abilities required then who should get the blame? Would you blame the coaching and development of the player or the recruiter? It is probably a bit of both but sometimes I think the recruiter cops more flak than they should.

[dog town]

In that 2 or 3 year patch around that draft Geelong took alot of kids who could win their own ball and who had solid work ethics. Took guys like Kelly, Bartel, Ling, Chapman and the like. They then had a fortunate run with father/son picks to help them out further.

[The Coon Dog]

In that 2 or 3 year patch around that draft Geelong took alot of kids who could win their own ball and who had solid work ethics. Took guys like Kelly, Bartel, Ling, Chapman and the like. They then had a fortunate run with father/son picks to help them out further.

A fortunate run!! Very fortunate!

Marc Woolnough, Matthew Scarlett, Tim Calrke, Tim Callan, Nathan Ablett, Gary Ablett, Mark Blake & Tom Hawkins.

All we've had is Luke Darcy & David Round.

[Mantis]

A fortunate run!! Very fortunate!

Marc Woolnough, Matthew Scarlett, Tim Calrke, Tim Callan, Nathan Ablett, Gary Ablett, Mark Blake & Tom Hawkins.

All we've had is Luke Darcy & David Round.

I think our fortune's will turn around quickly in this area, over the next few years we will probably see Brian Cordy's and Stephen Wallis's son's on our list, maybe even Libba's.

[bornadog]

The other factors are also injuries to young players and also what is in their head, ie, attitude, passion to play and other personal issues.

My greengrocers son is a good example. He has been slowly rising up the ranks playing for one of the under 18 sides (sorry can't remember if its Falcons or Western jets or one of the others). Up until 2006, he has been an absolute star, but was under age to be drafted. Then he received a shoulder injury and he put it off to be operated on, preferring to keep studying for VCE. He will have the operation this year, but his coach has been at him to get the operation and get back to being in the team. His passion to play, his recovery from injury and further development will make the difference if he goes on to AFL.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think sometimes we underplay development of the draft picks once they are at a club. Some clubs are better than others at bringing their talent up to the senior level and this is the part that the recruiter has little control over. I sometimes wonder how certain players would have gone at other clubs.

If Jordan Mcmahon never gets any better than he currently is then who is to blame? I think everyone can see that he has all the attributes as a player so if a player does not kick on despite having all the abilities required then who should get the blame? Would you blame the coaching and development of the player or the recruiter? It is probably a bit of both but sometimes I think the recruiter cops more flak than they should.

We have been hopeless with Development - even the 1999 draft lot took longer than they should have to develop. Wallace didnt promote enough kids and then we completely lost the plot under Rohde. Couple that with our lesser spending on football and we just haven't done enough.

That said if Jordie never really makes it, it is largely his fault, because he has more than enough talent, and had long enough in the system - maybe had we been differently structured when he arrived things would have been different, but hes had enough time now.

[dog town]

We have been hopeless with Development - even the 1999 draft lot took longer than they should have to develop. Wallace didnt promote enough kids and then we completely lost the plot under Rohde. Couple that with our lesser spending on football and we just haven't done enough.

That said if Jordie never really makes it, it is largely his fault, because he has more than enough talent, and had long enough in the system - maybe had we been differently structured when he arrived things would have been different, but hes had enough time now. Obviously the player controls his own destiny more than anyone else but its the clubs job to help instil all the right things in the player. I cant help but look at the way Mark Williams teaches his players and even gets recruits from other clubs playing a vital role. He must be an amazing teacher of the game.

Was only really using Mcmahon as an example because I often see people complain about using a top 10 pick on Mcmahon. Jordy is quite obviously a top 10 talent so I think Clayton is often harshly judged in that respect. Guido is probably another example. He was arguably a better or more damaging player in his second year of senior footy (2002) than he is now. Clayton cant really be held responsible for that either.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Obviously the player controls his own destiny more than anyone else but its the clubs job to help instil all the right things in the player. I cant help but look at the way Mark Williams teaches his players and even gets recruits from other clubs playing a vital role. He must be an amazing teacher of the game.

Was only really using Mcmahon as an example because I often see people complain about using a top 10 pick on Mcmahon. Jordy is quite obviously a top 10 talent so I think Clayton is often harshly judged in that respect. Guido is probably another example. He was arguably a better or more damaging player in his second year of senior footy (2002) than he is now. Clayton cant really be held responsible for that either.

I am not so sure that people question whether Jordie was a Top 10 talent in his draft - as you can see there were a lot of players selected ahead of him who have done nothing:

Priority 1 Nick Riewoldt St Kilda
2 Justin Koschitzke St Kilda
3 Alan Didak Collingwood
4 Luke Livingston Carlton
5 Andrew McDougall West Coast
6 Dylan Smith Kangaroos
7 Laurence Angwin Adelaide
8 Daniel Motlop Kangaroos
9 Kayne Pettifer Richmond
10 Jordan McMahon Western Bulldogs

Although after him were many good players Shaun Burgoyne, Kane Cornes, Daniel Kerr, Scott Thompson, I dont think many doubt his talent.

He looked clearly on his way to a career year in 2007 until perhaps unsettled/distracted by personal issues

[dog town]

I am not so sure that people question whether Jordie was a Top 10 talent in his draft - as you can see there were a lot of players selected ahead of him who have done nothing:

Priority 1 Nick Riewoldt St Kilda
2 Justin Koschitzke St Kilda
3 Alan Didak Collingwood
4 Luke Livingston Carlton
5 Andrew McDougall West Coast
6 Dylan Smith Kangaroos
7 Laurence Angwin Adelaide
8 Daniel Motlop Kangaroos
9 Kayne Pettifer Richmond
10 Jordan McMahon Western Bulldogs

Although after him were many good players Shaun Burgoyne, Kane Cornes, Daniel Kerr, Scott Thompson, I dont think many doubt his talent.

He looked clearly on his way to a career year in 2007 until perhaps unsettled/distracted by personal issues I remember debating it on a very similar thread at this time last year. Many times I have seen Mcmahon and Power used as examples of misses from our first round selections.

[Mantis]

I remember debating it on a very similar thread at this time last year. Many times I have seen Mcmahon and Power used as examples of misses from our first round selections.

In saying that you would think that McMahon has given us much better service than Power. McMahon has the ability to influence a game, you can't say the same about Power (except tagging...whoppy doo)

[dog town]

In saying that you would think that McMahon has given us much better service than Power. McMahon has the ability to influence a game, you can't say the same about Power (except tagging...whoppy doo) Power is probably a border line one. Was very highly rated before the draft and probably rated even higher by Clayton. Still 20 players who were selected after him on AFL lists which makes it a pretty decent draft. Still time for Sammy to climb up the rankings from that draft though. Never been a big defender of his but he is coming off a career best season statistically.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I remember debating it on a very similar thread at this time last year. Many times I have seen Mcmahon and Power used as examples of misses from our first round selections.

I don't think McMahon is a miss at all.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I don't think McMahon is a miss at all.

I think its obvious he was a great selection, and he is a 100 game player, and still has only scratched the surface

The instability around ou club has definitely effected this 1999-200 group

[Dry Rot]

Great thread BR.

What was Scarlett's old man like?

[southerncross]

Great thread BR.

What was Scarlett's old man like?

It is a great thread.

From memory Scarlett senior was a defender as well. Not sure if he was a FB though.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Cheers Guys,

The thing that got me thinking about it was when you look back at the drafts you begin to see how teams are built AND this was really a brilliant draft for both Geelong and us. Obviously I am envious of Geelong being in the position they are, but the 2 other thing that stand out for me are:

1) you really have to be patient when developing footballer - and I think sometimes we take a very short term view of players in AFL footy.

2) when you look back is pretty much how consistently stupid you look trading picks.

[Sockeye Salmon]

It is a great thread.

From memory Scarlett senior was a defender as well. Not sure if he was a FB though.

Yes he was.

Good honest player. very defensive, unlike Matthew.

Played in an era where there were some great fullbacks and full forwards. Dench, Southby, Moore v Hudson, McKenna, Wade.

Top players going one-on-one without 15 blokes in the defensive 50 (didn't even have defensive 50's). That's the main reason old-timers like me yearn for the good ol' days.

[Go_Dogs]

Apparently a pretty handy FB too? They ran an article on all the Geelong father son selections in the Advertiser today. Quite interesting.

[LostDoggy]

Jordy (Mcmahon) could be so good but he just needs to become harder at the ball , the problem is that is not easily taught.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Jordy (Mcmahon) could be so good but he just needs to become harder at the ball , the problem is that is not easily taught.

I dont think its harder at the ball, but harder without the ball - even West commented in his article in the Herald Sun that after copping the ducking the head jibe McMahon has become a very courageous player

It has been pointed out to me that a player with McMahons athleticism should be a menace for opposition sides when they have the ball