2012 Draft - Who do you like?

[LostDoggy]

Since the season is over and we look forward to the draft of 2012 it is time to start to look at the young talent on offer. This draft is said to be a ripper so who do you like and what sort of player would be of benefit to the Dogs.

For me and outside midfielder / forward type -

Dayle Gartlett, 18yo 181cm, has had some personal issues but appears to be over them and is a real talent and making big moves in WA. Plays mid/fwd

Jackson Macrae, midfielder 18, 188cm - one of the most exciting prospect outside of Viney. He would be a great pickup can go forward great outside run.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Leaving Whitfield, Daniher and Viney out of it, I like the three SA boys.

Toumpas
Mayes
Kennedy

Then Gartlett and O'Rourke. No interest in Grundy or Shaw really. Wines is good but just more of what we already have.

[LostDoggy]

Toumpas, suffered a back injury or hip injury (something like that) is it likely to flare up? Agree he is a talent for sure, can play anywhere in the midfield and runs like the wind.

[Maddog37]

I like all of those names. MacRae has really stepped up late from what I have read.

I also like Tim Sumner from SA. Did a couple of things in the under 18 champs that were a bit special so hopefully he is there a bit later on.

Will anyone nominate Hunter?

[LostDoggy]

Hunter is a bit of a wild card for mine..Will he be a player or wont he, he has got the potential to be a really good forward if he come togther.....Do you take a chance on him - ie put him in the Bank I dont know.

We here are scathing in failed draft picks so what to do.

[ledge]

Hunter is a bit of a wild card for mine..Will he be a player or wont he, he has got the potential to be a really good forward if he come togther.....Do you take a chance on him - ie put him in the Bank I dont know.

We here are scathing in failed draft picks so what to do.

Hunters had the dreaded OP having an effect on his form this year could be a bonus getting him lower in the draft, he did kick 6 a cple of weeks ago even with OP got in the bests the week after too

[stefoid]

Cant wait for the videos, but on description only

Dream draft would be Toumpas and Martin.

Reality draft would be
pick 5: Mayes. Genuyine quick, excellent kick, can also play forward
pick 6: Orourke: inside/outside player, noted for ability to spread, work through traffic and hit targets under pressure.

[The Underdog]

I'll have the Premiership captain midfielder and the 100 goal key forward thanks.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Will Melbourne be forced to use picks 3 or 4 on Viney? Hopefully Sheedy attmepts to do this :D

[LostDoggy]

Will Melbourne be forced to use picks 3 or 4 on Viney? Hopefully Sheedy attmepts to do this :D

You would hope so cause that will open up a lot for us. But I would think that unwritten rule of other clubs dont chase a father son will kick in.

[LostDoggy]

But I would think that unwritten rule of other clubs dont chase a father son will kick in.

Wish that happened with Cordy, had to use 1st round because of St Kilda.

[LostDoggy]

Wish that happened with Cordy, had to use 1st round because of St Kilda.

Missed that one....doh, but it was St. Kilda.

[Remi Moses]

Leaving Whitfield, Daniher and Viney out of it, I like the three SA boys.

Toumpas
Mayes
Kennedy

Then Gartlett and O'Rourke. No interest in Grundy or Shaw really. Wines is good but just more of what we already have.

+ 1 here .
One for next year is the SA kid Scharenberg ( spelling) made a great debut for Glenelg by all accounts. Watched him in the championships and he is quality.
Tom Boyd ( young key forward) and Billings

[stefoid]

Scroll down to menzel - a sign perhaps?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/146123/default.aspx

[bulldogsman]

I like all of those names. MacRae has really stepped up late from what I have read.

He was real good on the weekend and had a good champs. I was hoping he might last to our 2nd round pick, but I doubt it. I would prefer others for our 1st round picks.

I'd love Garlett if it wasn't for his behavioural problems. Toumpas would be great, but more then likely will be gone.

So realistically I'd like Mayes and Plowman for our first couple picks. O'Rourke, Simpson and Kennedy I would also be happy with. Stringer is an interesting one, I would've seen him play 8 or 9 times this year but I'm just not convinced. I think how he tests will be important.

I hope we can get Martin or Hogan in the mini draft though.

[Maddog37]

Would we give up a first round pick for Josh Kennedy from Sydney?

[bulldogsman]

Scroll down to menzel - a sign perhaps?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/146123/default.aspx

Seems too risky with the LARS surgery he's had done.

[LostDoggy]

You would hope so cause that will open up a lot for us. But I would think that unwritten rule of other clubs dont chase a father son will kick in.

There is no such thing.

Clubs have a duty to keep the rewarded club honest.

[LostDoggy]

Menzel for mine.

Cubs went off Selwood because he had injury issues leading to the draft. Geelong laughed all the way to the bank.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

Is it just me or does anyone else think Marvin Warrell is a dead spit for Leon Davis?:confused:

[bulldogsman]

Menzel for mine.

Cubs went off Selwood because he had injury issues leading to the draft. Geelong laughed all the way to the bank.

It was his knee, but Geelong were pretty certain his knee was fine after taking him to a specialist and now he's famous for it in AFL circles.

Considering his brother has bad knees (can be hereditary) and the LARS surgery being relatively unproven. I'd rather we give Menzel a miss, we can't be certain.

[Greystache]

It was his knee, but Geelong were pretty certain his knee was fine after taking him to a specialist and now he's famous for it in AFL circles.

Considering his brother has bad knees (can be hereditary) and the LARS surgery being relatively unproven. I'd rather we give Menzel a miss, we can't be certain.

I agree, if he slides he may be worth the risk due to having big upside, but his situation is different from Selwood.

Selwood had 2 experienced brothers playing AFL footy and neither had knee problems, which indicates Selwood was more likely unlucky than predisposed to knee problems. Menzel clearly has bad ACL genetics in the family, he's done one and his brother has done both (both times simply changing direction and not the result of a collision). The two Brown's have both done ACL's too for example.

Daniel Menzel may come back after having both ACL's grafted and never have another issue, Troy might be the same, but it's too big a risk when we have pick 5 & 6 as far as I'm concerned.

[Maddog37]

If he had no knee issues he would be a shoe in for top 5 wouldn't he? He fits exactly what we want but it is a huge risk. Much like Stringer.

[GVGjr]

Leaving Whitfield, Daniher and Viney out of it, I like the three SA boys.

Toumpas
Mayes
Kennedy

Then Gartlett and O'Rourke. No interest in Grundy or Shaw really. Wines is good but just more of what we already have.

I like your nominations but I would also add Simpson from WA and Plowman from the Cannons.

[LostDoggy]

I'll have the Premiership captain midfielder and the 100 goal key forward thanks.

Sounds like Mayes and Stringer then.

Reckon that's the way we'll end up going.

Quality medium mid / fwd and key forward in Stringer.

[Go_Dogs]

I like your nominations but I would also add Simpson from WA and Plowman from the Cannons.

Agreed. All would be great selections for us. I'm very keen on Kennedy.

[GVGjr]

Agreed. All would be great selections for us. I'm very keen on Kennedy.

Tony McGuinness clone ;)

[LostDoggy]

I hope to all heaven someone is working on Jon Patton's agent. If he digs his heels in to come home at the end of 2013 I'd love to reverse the cornholing we copped for Ward. Sadly, we may well be in box seat to trade him out of there based on the back end of this year. Mayes, Stringer and next year Patton in exchange for 2013's #1 or #2 might get us back quickly.

[westdog54]

Will Melbourne be forced to use picks 3 or 4 on Viney? Hopefully Sheedy attmepts to do this :D

That's the only way this would happen, if GWS or GC bid their first pick, and given the quality in the draft i don't think that it'll eventuate, unless we trade 5 or 6 to them for the mini draft pick, that is.

[Maddog37]

Silly question but what picks do we actually have again?

[stefoid]

I hope to all heaven someone is working on Jon Patton's agent. If he digs his heels in to come home at the end of 2013 I'd love to reverse the cornholing we copped for Ward. Sadly, we may well be in box seat to trade him out of there based on the back end of this year. Mayes, Stringer and next year Patton in exchange for 2013's #1 or #2 might get us back quickly.

yes but will we be able to fit Patton and Hogan in the same forward line? ;)

[westdog54]

Pretty sure Melbourne have activated a compo pick which will leave us with 5 and 6.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Tony McGuinness clone ;)

That's exactly what I thought.

I was a bit disappointed with what I saw of Simpson. I thought Gartlett was a long way ahead of him (but then I've only seen them twice).

[westdog54]

I hope to all heaven someone is working on Jon Patton's agent. If he digs his heels in to come home at the end of 2013 I'd love to reverse the cornholing we copped for Ward. Sadly, we may well be in box seat to trade him out of there based on the back end of this year. Mayes, Stringer and next year Patton in exchange for 2013's #1 or #2 might get us back quickly.

To be frank, I don't think next year's Pick #1 will get the job done to get Patton

[Redemption97]

Based on the limited I know of this years draft I'm liking the sounds of Menzel (SA) and Stringer (Vic). Risky I know in terms of their body concerns but the pay off could be the gravy our side is sorely lacking. Strong kids with x factor and potential to be high output players who can influence games. Both can play as mids and can hit the scoreboard as forwards.

I'm thinking of what we know of Macca and I'm guessing he'd find it hard to not consider the likes of Wines. Strong inside mid who mauls in the contest and can spread. Victorian boy as well. Worries me a little as he sounds like a better version of a few of our other mids. I guess an upgrade is an upgrade.

Mayes sounds good too. Great foot skills but I worry that he has played mostly as a forward and a little in the middle. South Australian too who we've got good history of retaining but there is always that risk. He can hit the scoreboard and those who claim to be in the know say he has the right mix of pace and one of the best kicks in the draft to become a high production midfielder.

I'm really intrigued how we'll go in this draft. We as supporters want quick outside mids who are elite kicks but the club just needs to get the best players at our picks. Quality is quality and let's face it we just need to add guns at every line. If we went Grundy who is a ruck or Plowman who is a key rebounding back with one of our first picks (5 or 6) don't be surprised. Haha I can already see the carry on if we get another Ruck.

[Greystache]

Would Stringer at pick 5 be as good as Hogan for pick 5 and Grant?

[Redemption97]

Would Stringer at pick 5 be as good as Hogan for pick 5 and Grant?

That's a risky call either way. Hogans is 17 and by all accounts has has shown great potential as a key position forward. Stringer exploded as a 17 year old and prior to breaking the leg was in poll position to go as number one in the draft. Both are risks. Also Grant finally getting his act together is also a risk if we trade him out.

Personally I'd rather keep Grant and draft a player who will play next year rather than wait 12 months for a 17 year old from Perth.

Also we are likely to have some good picks next year as I can't see us improving much on this years result given the amount of young blokes on our list who'll Macca will want to develop next season. There will be other key position forwards up for grabs in other years maybe even Hogan :)

[bulldogsman]

Would Stringer at pick 5 be as good as Hogan for pick 5 and Grant?

Why would we have to give up pick 5 and Grant for Hogan? Are GC or Melbourne interested?

[Greystache]

Why would we have to give up pick 5 and Grant for Hogan? Are GC or Melbourne interested?

All the talk is that they are but who knows if there's any substance behind that. If we could get him in the mini draft for pick 5 without the sweetener that seems preferable to me than going for Stringer at 5.

[Redemption97]

All the talk is that they are but who knows if there's any substance behind that. If we could get him in the mini draft for pick 5 without the sweetener that seems preferable to me than going for Stringer at 5.

What is it about Hogan that makes you think that would be a good trade?

[Greystache]

What is it about Hogan that makes you think that would be a good trade?

He showed a lot in the championships, if he replicated that next year he could be pick 1 .He's not also not that awkward 191cm in between size like Stringer and hasn't had the injury concern Stinger has.

[mjp]

What is it about Hogan that makes you think that would be a good trade?

Whoever gets the best player wins a trade.

If we get Hogan - no matter WHAT we give up - we win the trade.

What is it about him? The fact that he is a 191cm key position forward who will jump at a contest from 5 back even if he is NO CHANCE of marking it. He likes contact and likes hurting people. He plays angry.

[Greystache]

Whoever gets the best player wins a trade.

If we get Hogan - no matter WHAT we give up - we win the trade.

What is it about him? The fact that he is a 191cm key position forward who will jump at a contest from 5 back even if he is NO CHANCE of marking it. He likes contact and likes hurting people. He plays angry.

Is he really only 191cm? I've seen him listed at 193cm and 194cm, but some player profiles aren't to be trusted.

[mjp]

Is he really only 191cm? I've seen him listed at 193cm and 194cm, but some player profiles aren't to be trusted.

That is my recollection.

Darling is only 190cm. Fevola 191cm. It doesn't matter. If you jump at the ball hard and take it at the highest point - with your left knee collecting one opponent and your right knee connecting with another - 191cm is plenty big enough.

[Redemption97]

Whoever gets the best player wins a trade.

If we get Hogan - no matter WHAT we give up - we win the trade.

What is it about him? The fact that he is a 191cm key position forward who will jump at a contest from 5 back even if he is NO CHANCE of marking it. He likes contact and likes hurting people. He plays angry.

I understand MJP.

So if we get the second mini pick for Hogan what would you think it would cost? And with the left over 1st rounder who would you take and why?

Also what if we do get Hogan and we are in a position to draft Boyd next year? It's not unthinkable lets face it.

[Remi Moses]

That is my recollection.

Darling is only 190cm. Fevola 191cm. It doesn't matter. If you jump at the ball hard and take it at the highest point - with your left knee collecting one opponent and your right knee connecting with another - 191cm is plenty big enough.

Would it be fair to say he plays like Darling?
What's your thoughts on Thomas Boyd?

[chef]

He showed a lot in the championships, if he replicated that next year he could be pick 1 .He's not also not that awkward 191cm in between size like Stringer and hasn't had the injury concern Stinger has.

Is Stringer a flanker or KPF?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Is Stringer a flanker or KPF?

Flanker? He's about as far away from Paul Hudson as you can get.

More like a whopping big midfielder who goes forward.

[hotdog]

With limited knowledge on any of these boys I do like the sound of an angry forward who likes to hurt people. The catch here is are we willing to wait probably 2-3 years until he is doing this at senior level. Personally if the club think he is worth the wait then I would be willing to have the patience to see this strategy through. Lets face it we will be down for a few more years yet so lets come back with some serious talent and have a big crack at a flag 2015/2016/2017. Happy to off load a player + pick 5 to get this deal done. With pick 6 I like the sound of Mayes although if we took Stringer I would not be disappointed. I really hope we steer clear of Menzel as I don't want another Tom Williams episode where he sits in the stands for the first 4 years of his career due to consistent injury. What if his LARS surgery doesn't hold up to the rigors of senior footy? This is also a risk with Stringer but bones do tend to heal stronger especially when you have age on your side.

[Maddog37]

MJP,

Are Hogans skills ok? I saw a tiny bit of the champs and he was pretty shakey on the goal kicking.

[stefoid]

With limited knowledge on any of these boys I do like the sound of an angry forward who likes to hurt people. The catch here is are we willing to wait probably 2-3 years until he is doing this at senior level. Personally if the club think he is worth the wait then I would be willing to have the patience to see this strategy through. Lets face it we will be down for a few more years yet so lets come back with some serious talent and have a big crack at a flag 2015/2016/2017. Happy to off load a player + pick 5 to get this deal done. With pick 6 I like the sound of Mayes although if we took Stringer I would not be disappointed. I really hope we steer clear of Menzel as I don't want another Tom Williams episode where he sits in the stands for the first 4 years of his career due to consistent injury. What if his LARS surgery doesn't hold up to the rigors of senior footy? This is also a risk with Stringer but bones do tend to heal stronger especially when you have age on your side.

Hogan looks like a pretty big lad allready at 17 (listed as 193cm, 91kg) so if hes good enough, he can play straight away. If we get him to the club next year he can do the proper preseason and play for williamstown and all that.

Martin on the other hand is a stick insect, but again, if he is good enough and fit enough, he can use pure class to play as a reciever and finisher while his body develops, probably a small forward role (187cm, can jump and catch)

[LostDoggy]

Having watched a bit of the SANFL this year I have been taken by Paul Marschall from Central Districts.

He is 20 & has a mature body and from what I've seen on the SANFL replays is a really good kick who uses the ball well, and can take contested marks.

He has been playing in the seniors most of the year & with a frame of 189cm & 90kg, would be a good chance of being able to play seniors straight away.

Averging 17 possessions a game at 80% efficency, playing mainly off HB from what I could gather.

I think we all agree we need some better kicking skills, and with the experience of playing against men in the SANFL seniors would be an advantage also.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/145467/default.aspx

Can any of the SA posters comment any further on him? I am only going off about 3 SANFL replays I have seen, do you think he would be a good fit.

[mjp]

So if we get the second mini pick for Hogan what would you think it would cost? And with the left over 1st rounder who would you take and why?


1/.I have no idea what it would cost - but a low first round pick was the going rate last year so I guess it will be similar this year.

2/.If I was drafting I would do this:

Pick 1 - Whitfield. Best player, inside outside, elite kick, elite runner.
Pick 2 - Trade it for Jack.
Real pick 2 - Draft Toumpas - clean skills, composed under pressure, able to contribute as a running defender whilst learning.
Pick 3 - Melbourne will take Viney (and so would I).
Pick 4 - I would take Vlastuin. Leadership, keeps his feet, strong in the contest, versatile...just looks like a 200 game player (and another who could contribute off hb).
Pick 5 - Garlett. Best player aside from Whitfield. Elite legspeed, elite kicking skills, composed under pressure, competitive.
Pick6 - Plowman. Key defender, strong and competitive. Good kick.

The others?

Mayes - where will he play + disappointing this year.
Grundy - where will he play? Average ruck, average forward....if Longer was 6 then he might be 16.

Caveat. If someone thinks Kennedy is a legit on-baller, he will go a lot higher than everyone thinks...the question is - can he do that full-time???



Also what if we do get Hogan and we are in a position to draft Boyd next year? It's not unthinkable lets face it.

Not really a bad problem to have is it??

[Mofra]

Cheers MJP for the insight - out of interest, have you seen enough of Hogan, Stringer & Wines to judge whether you'd take them inside or outside the top 10 this year (or trade a pick inside 10 for Hogan)?

[mjp]

I have only seen Stringer a couple of times. He didn't look anything like an AFL player.

I like Wines - but Hogan is the only top 10'er out of the three I think. Wines will be a good player but I can't see him having the flash to crack the top 10.

[Mofra]

Much appreciated

[stefoid]

1/.I have no idea what it would cost - but a low first round pick was the going rate last year so I guess it will be similar this year.

2/.If I was drafting I would do this:

Pick 1 - Whitfield. Best player, inside outside, elite kick, elite runner.
Pick 2 - Trade it for Jack.
Real pick 2 - Draft Toumpas - clean skills, composed under pressure, able to contribute as a running defender whilst learning.
Pick 3 - Melbourne will take Viney (and so would I).
Pick 4 - I would take Vlastuin. Leadership, keeps his feet, strong in the contest, versatile...just looks like a 200 game player (and another who could contribute off hb).
Pick 5 - Garlett. Best player aside from Whitfield. Elite legspeed, elite kicking skills, composed under pressure, competitive.
Pick6 - Plowman. Key defender, strong and competitive. Good kick.

The others?

Mayes - where will he play + disappointing this year.
Grundy - where will he play? Average ruck, average forward....if Longer was 6 then he might be 16.

Caveat. If someone thinks Kennedy is a legit on-baller, he will go a lot higher than everyone thinks...the question is - can he do that full-time???

Not really a bad problem to have is it??

Garlett at 5 , huh? not many have him that high. I like the idea of that type of player, but I suppose the 'headcase' issue comes into play.

What about ORourke, would love to hear your thougts?

[Redemption97]

1/.I have no idea what it would cost - but a low first round pick was the going rate last year so I guess it will be similar this year.

2/.If I was drafting I would do this:

Pick 1 - Whitfield. Best player, inside outside, elite kick, elite runner.
Pick 2 - Trade it for Jack.
Real pick 2 - Draft Toumpas - clean skills, composed under pressure, able to contribute as a running defender whilst learning.
Pick 3 - Melbourne will take Viney (and so would I).
Pick 4 - I would take Vlastuin. Leadership, keeps his feet, strong in the contest, versatile...just looks like a 200 game player (and another who could contribute off hb).
Pick 5 - Garlett. Best player aside from Whitfield. Elite legspeed, elite kicking skills, composed under pressure, competitive.
Pick6 - Plowman. Key defender, strong and competitive. Good kick.

The others?

Mayes - where will he play + disappointing this year.
Grundy - where will he play? Average ruck, average forward....if Longer was 6 then he might be 16.

Caveat. If someone thinks Kennedy is a legit on-baller, he will go a lot higher than everyone thinks...the question is - can he do that full-time???



Not really a bad problem to have is it??

Thanks MJP. Appreciate your opinion. Agree it would be a good problem to have with both Boyd and Hogan. If we did go there with out best picks in this and the next draft I'd hope we also uncover a few players that wont recquire them to have to take a contested mark everytime we have a forward entry!

I see you're quite excited by Hogan and that you rate Vlastuin really highly.

Stefoid I too have read some questionable online experts view's on Hogan's goal kicking... I think at 17 most if not all kids will have something they need to work on.

After a couple of drafts now with Simon D I've learnt that we are not shy of going against the popular grain with our picks. The PR earlier this year featuring Jason McCartney speaking about big bodied midfielders who can do it all has me thinking we will be going that way again with our first two picks.

[mjp]

Garlett at 5 , huh? not many have him that high. I like the idea of that type of player, but I suppose the 'headcase' issue comes into play.

What about ORourke, would love to hear your thougts?

Dayle isn't a head case. Should go pick 1 or 2 on talent.

O'Rourke is fine...good mid with an inside/outside game. Will be top 10 or so.

[chef]

Flanker? He's about as far away from Paul Hudson as you can get.

More like a whopping big midfielder who goes forward.

What modern player is he like?

[LostDoggy]

Stringer looked good for the gold last week. Bit like a Ziebel type, dosn't look lost playing against men

[GVGjr]

Having watched a bit of the SANFL this year I have been taken by Paul Marschall from Central Districts.

He is 20 & has a mature body and from what I've seen on the SANFL replays is a really good kick who uses the ball well, and can take contested marks.

He has been playing in the seniors most of the year & with a frame of 189cm & 90kg, would be a good chance of being able to play seniors straight away.

Averging 17 possessions a game at 80% efficency, playing mainly off HB from what I could gather.

.

I talked about him to a few others last week. He would be worth taking a chance on.

Assuming we don't position ourselves for the mini draft, for picks 5 and 6 I would have the following players in the mix:
Plowman because he very good defender and has agility. Might be the sort of player that could cover Murphy and or Morris.
Garlett and Simpson because they are line breakers and Menzel because he can score goals.

I like Vlastin and Wines but they lack a step of pace for our side.

[LostDoggy]

To be frank, I don't think next year's Pick #1 will get the job done to get Patton

I don't want to take a good thread sideways but can anyone tell me the rule after the first two years on a list? If Patton simply won't sign GWS again and we have built a warchest to get him to the dogs (which we will have end 2013 with more retirements) + we have Pick#1 in the draft doesn't that mean if Patton wants both Melbourne based and the cash, GWS can either take pick 1 and be greatful or Patton goes in the draft and we take him anyway?

Been searching the web for 2 days for an answer on this and I can't find a ruling on the players next contract after their first 2 years from being drafted. If the above is right, and we do totally bottom next year, we should have a little person waving a big bag of cash at Patton's manager continuously next year.

Yes its a pipedream but its not unrealisable given he seems currently reluctant to resign with GWS.

[Go_Dogs]

Nice post mjp, thanks. Going to be very interesting to see where Garlett ends up.

I see Kennedy as a legit midfielder - T&T, would you agree?

[Go_Dogs]

I talked about him to a few others last week. He would be worth taking a chance on.

I can confirm that. My only concern is he doesn't find a heap of the ball and (in my mind) does his best work receiving rather than winning his own ball. One to keep an eye on over the next few weeks for sure, think there will be some interest late 3rd round onwards.

[westdog54]

I don't want to take a good thread sideways but can anyone tell me the rule after the first two years on a list? If Patton simply won't sign GWS again and we have built a warchest to get him to the dogs (which we will have end 2013 with more retirements) + we have Pick#1 in the draft doesn't that mean if Patton wants both Melbourne based and the cash, GWS can either take pick 1 and be greatful or Patton goes in the draft and we take him anyway?

Been searching the web for 2 days for an answer on this and I can't find a ruling on the players next contract after their first 2 years from being drafted. If the above is right, and we do totally bottom next year, we should have a little person waving a big bag of cash at Patton's manager continuously next year.

Yes its a pipedream but its not unrealisable given he seems currently reluctant to resign with GWS.

If Patton and GWS don't get a deal done but they want to retain his service he must nominate for the draft or seek a trade. The only way he can walk as a free agent is if they delist him.

FWIW I don't see us being worse next year.

[Desipura]

I think Stringer will be one of our picks.

[Mofra]

We have made public statements over who the sort of player we'd like so (even ignoring rumours) we have:

* J-Mac on record as saying he'd like some big-bodied midfielders on the list
* B-Mac saying he wants a mid-sized forward who "does everything"

So far it sounds like we're picking Stringer twice

I know we've got some young KPDs on our list and BF descriptions can be taken with a grain of salt, but a few have linked us to Plowman. The descriptions seem to indicate he's an excellent rebounder, something we sorely lack. At 191cm he's Morris height so he may be fairly versatile as well.

Given B-Mac's input last year, the skinny athlete who doesn't compete well is probably not going to be considered.

[ledge]

We have made public statements over who the sort of player we'd like so (even ignoring rumours) we have:

* J-Mac on record as saying he'd like some big-bodied midfielders on the list
* B-Mac saying he wants a mid-sized forward who "does everything"

So far it sounds like we're picking Stringer twice

I know we've got some young KPDs on our list and BF descriptions can be taken with a grain of salt, but a few have linked us to Plowman. The descriptions seem to indicate he's an excellent rebounder, something we sorely lack. At 191cm he's Morris height so he may be fairly versatile as well.

Given B-Mac's input last year, the skinny athlete who doesn't compete well is probably not going to be considered.

Definitely a change of tact with MAcca we used to go young and try and build now it's get the ones with a build and hungry

[Greystache]

We have made public statements over who the sort of player we'd like so (even ignoring rumours) we have:

Given B-Mac's input last year, the skinny athlete who doesn't compete well is probably not going to be considered.

Thank God! We took that approach for a decade and saw virtually no good results from it.

Power, Walsh, Grant, Everitt, McMahon, and that's just the first round picks!

[LongWait]

I think Stringer will be one of our picks.

Agree Desi. Got a feeling it'll be Mayes and Stringer - purely on gut. BMac would surely like Wines as well but that may be reaching with pick 6.

[LostDoggy]

Thank God! We took that approach for a decade and saw virtually no good results from it.

Power, Walsh, Grant, Everitt, McMahon, and that's just the first round picks!

Farren Ray says hello!

[Ghost Dog]

I talked about him to a few others last week. He would be worth taking a chance on.

Assuming we don't position ourselves for the mini draft, for picks 5 and 6 I would have the following players in the mix:
Plowman because he very good defender and has agility. Might be the sort of player that could cover Murphy and or Morris.
Garlett and Simpson because they are line breakers and Menzel because he can score goals.

I like Vlastin and Wines but they lack a step of pace for our side.

Is this Garlett related to Carlton's bloke?

[Mofra]

Thank God! We took that approach for a decade and saw virtually no good results from it.

Power, Walsh, Grant, Everitt, McMahon, and that's just the first round picks!
There's always the perceived risk that bigger bodied types do well at junior level because of a size advantage - yet guys like Hawkins, Jordan Lewis, Shannon Hurn have all kicked on well.

Clayton used to say "it's easier to build size than talent" - his legacy with us suggests it's not so easy.

[ledge]

There's always the perceived risk that bigger bodied types do well at junior level because of a size advantage - yet guys like Hawkins, Jordan Lewis, Shannon Hurn have all kicked on well.

Clayton used to say "it's easier to build size than talent" - his legacy with us suggests it's not so easy.

Maccas is simple get them with both

[LostDoggy]

I can confirm that. My only concern is he doesn't find a heap of the ball and (in my mind) does his best work receiving rather than winning his own ball. One to keep an eye on over the next few weeks for sure, think there will be some interest late 3rd round onwards.

Thanks Griff#16 - thats the sort of info I was looking for. I can only go off the SANFL replays, which is limited.
I also noticed that he wasnt the quickest, but I thought that could be overcome by being a good user of the ball. We do need some good users who have an "outside" ability so to be able to win their own ball would be nice, but we cant have everything I guess, especially if you think he should only be a 3rd rounder.
So would you say he's a bit like Josh Hunt, looks like Tarzan, but plays like Jane? :D

[Throughandthrough]

Nice post mjp, thanks. Going to be very interesting to see where Garlett ends up.

I see Kennedy as a legit midfielder - T&T, would you agree?


Absolutely. Is a freak. If the dogs recruit Ben Kennedy i'll be the second (or possibly first) happiest bloke in Adelaide.


Is Bigger frames (but much shorter) than Toumpas.

Is the Tony McGuinness of the next decade.

[bulldogsman]

Dayle isn't a head case. Should go pick 1 or 2 on talent

I would agree that he's the next best talent behind Whitfield. If his behavioural problems aren't that bad I'd be happy to get him, but I can't help be a little worried especially after what's happened with Libba.

[Remi Moses]

Noticed on BF they're talking up O'Rourke.
Any thoughts?

[DOG GOD]

O'Rourke sounds pretty good by what I've been reading. And the more I read about Stringer the more worried I'm becoming :) I also think it will be Mayes and Stringer come draft day.

[GVGjr]

Noticed on BF they're talking up O'Rourke.
Any thoughts?

Very good player but I think our picks are too early to have him right in the consideration.

[azabob]

O'Rourke sounds pretty good by what I've been reading. And the more I read about Stringer the more worried I'm becoming :) I also think it will be Mayes and Stringer come draft day.

Why are you worried?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Noticed on BF they're talking up O'Rourke.
Any thoughts?

I really liked him. The three standouts at the champs for me were Daniher, Gartlett and O'Rourke (I only saw the two rounds in Melbourne).

[ledge]

Just thinking about Hunter does anyone think we will take him. He seems to be a mid who
Kicks goals and we probably will get him in a round 2 or 3. What's his attitude like does anyone know?

[azabob]

Just thinking about Hunter does anyone think we will take him. He seems to be a mid who
Kicks goals and we probably will get him in a round 2 or 3. What's his attitude like does anyone know?

Ledge, your probably best going to the thread about him, plenty of speculation there.

[DOG GOD]

Why are you worried?

I guess they're talking up his leg a lot and some are saying it will be a very nervous club that selects him. Are players ever the same after breaking their leg? I guess it depends on the break, but the picive seen of stringers break didn't look good (where the break was). Maybe someone who has recently seen him play can shed some light to ease my mind a bit :)

[bulldogsman]

I guess they're talking up his leg a lot and some are saying it will be a very nervous club that selects him. Are players ever the same after breaking their leg? I guess it depends on the break, but the picive seen of stringers break didn't look good (where the break was). Maybe someone who has recently seen him play can shed some light to ease my mind a bit :)

I've seen quite a lot of him this year. He had a big limp earlier in the year, looks to be gone now. He had a nice explosion of pace as a 16 year old, not so much now. I've seen signs in his last two matches that he can get back to his best though, his running and skills have improved a fair bit. I'm still not convinced, but the signs a much, much better since the champs.

[Mofra]

I guess they're talking up his leg a lot and some are saying it will be a very nervous club that selects him. Are players ever the same after breaking their leg?
Depends how early - Voss wasn't hindered after a bad break in 98, although he barely trained and played in serious pain in 99 by all accounts. Given the dynasty of 2001-03, his recovery is probably the best that could hve been hoped for (still managed 279 games as a player too).

Voss did his young which is a point of difference between him and Nathan Brown. Stringer already playing ahead of schedule should provide some comfort to recruiters one would think.

[w3design]

Just thinking about Hunter does anyone think we will take him. He seems to be a mid who
Kicks goals and we probably will get him in a round 2 or 3. What's his attitude like does anyone know?

The Dogs have Hunter rated as 3rd round pick and will let him go if others bid earlier.

[bornadog]

The Dogs have Hunter rated as 3rd round pick and will let him go if others bid earlier.

Good.

[Drunken Bum]

The Dogs have Hunter rated as 3rd round pick and will let him go if others bid earlier.

Once F/S's are being rated down around the 3rd round and below i think it becomes a lot less likely that other clubs will bid on them at all. 1st and 2nd round yeah but once you get around the third round there are a lot more variables. Or that's the way i see it anyway, anyone else think this way?

[Go_Dogs]

Good.

In my opinion he's a good prospect, so I hope we can get him but I think our 3rd round pick is probably about fair market price.

He's got some speed, he's very tough and he kicks goals. Would compliment our list nicely.

[bornadog]

In my opinion he's a good prospect, so I hope we can get him but I think our 3rd round pick is probably about fair market price.

He's got some speed, he's very tough and he kicks goals. Would compliment our list nicely.

I should have expanded, I don't want us paying overs for any player even if they are father son.

[Go_Dogs]

I should have expanded, I don't want us paying overs for any player even if they are father son.

Yep, spot on.

I'm probably a bigger fan than most on the back of what was a very impressive performance in Adelaide against SA. He was very good that day and showed a lot of traits I think our footy/recruiting department would value. Ultimately it seems whether he ends up with us will depend on how keen others are. I can't really see anyone bidding their first round nor the sides who finished below us nominating him with their 2nd round picks.

I do really like the concept of him playing with us, I guess I'm a traditionalist. :)

[ledge]

Sounds like he would be a good 3rd rounder to get, might not look good the first year having OP this year but that could be a good thing if he is much better than form suggests with that injury.

[GVGjr]

From a purely player needs basis who do you think will will pick?
I'm of the belief we need to get one skillful and midfielder and one tall defender with our two picks.

[Go_Dogs]

From a purely player needs basis who do you think will will pick?
I'm of the belief we need to get one skillful and midfielder and one tall defender with our two picks.

I'm not sure about a tall defender with an early pick. We still need Talia and Roberts to develop and have perhaps 4 or 5 others who can play through there. Wouldn't be against targeting one with a rookie pick though. Frost or Witkowski from Williamstown could be perhaps be worth looking at.

I'd go for one quick, hard running mid who can win his own ball and kick goals. And either a medium sized forward/defender with good hands, pace and skill.

[Go_Dogs]

Sounds like he would be a good 3rd rounder to get, might not look good the first year having OP this year but that could be a good thing if he is much better than form suggests with that injury.

The OP is a big concern, and which we do need to be mindful of. If it's likely to be an on-going issue we need to take it into strong consideration.

[Mofra]

From a purely player needs basis who do you think will will pick?
I'm of the belief we need to get one skillful and midfielder and one tall defender with our two picks.
We'll probably pick on talent rather than needs for our first 3 picks (if we keep them).
I know we seem ok for tall backs, but I like the sound of Plowman as a rebounding defender.
B-Mac wants a medium forward and J-Mac mentioned wanting big bodied midfielders on the list.

I just hope we pick blokes who can kick.

[ledge]

The OP is a big concern, and which we do need to be mindful of. If it's likely to be an on-going issue we need to take it into strong consideration.

I'm not that knowledgeable on OP is it a long term problem?

[Go_Dogs]

I'm not that knowledgeable on OP is it a long term problem?

I'm no expert either, but the concern is if he suffers it now, will his body hold up to an AFL training program? SlimPickens might be best poised to answer this one.

[ledge]

Don't most suffer it young from Upping the training schedule?

[SlimPickens]

I'm not that knowledgeable on OP is it a long term problem?

Certainly can be, if it's mis-managed. Look at Luke Ball as a prime example, he was basically crippled by it for a number of years because of it. Cal Ward is another example of a player who has previously struggled with it and has once again had issues with it this year.

OP is basically an overuse injury, causing stress in and around the pubic symphysis. The muscles around there such as adductors, abs, hip flexors etc are used a hell of a lot in footy and particularly in young developing players (like Hunter) they need to manage it effectively to ensure it doesn't become a long term issue.

The timing isn't great for Lachlan as i'd imagine he would want to do everything within his power to impress AFL clubs to ensure he gets picked up. Testing at the combine such as agility and the explosive testing like vertical leap and repeat sprints are not ideal for recovery and even the handball and kicking drills probably wont help.

[AndrewP6]

Don't most suffer it young from Upping the training schedule?

That's often how it occurs, yes. When a players body is subject to increased workload (sometimes before it's ready), or the load is raised too quickly, OP can result.

[jeemak]

I'm not sure about a tall defender with an early pick. We still need Talia and Roberts to develop and have perhaps 4 or 5 others who can play through there. Wouldn't be against targeting one with a rookie pick though. Frost or Witkowski from Williamstown could be perhaps be worth looking at.

I'd go for one quick, hard running mid who can win his own ball and kick goals. And either a medium sized forward/defender with good hands, pace and skill.




We'll probably pick on talent rather than needs for our first 3 picks (if we keep them).
I know we seem ok for tall backs, but I like the sound of Plowman as a rebounding defender.
B-Mac wants a medium forward and J-Mac mentioned wanting big bodied midfielders on the list.

I just hope we pick blokes who can kick.

If I was to have my way these would be the priorities.

We desperately need somebody to share the load with Higgins and Dickson in light of Giansiracusa's likely decline next year (purely from a goal scoring perspective, in other areas he is already finished).

I know our foot skills will improve as we get fitter, stronger, and better at making decisions under pressure, but there is absolutely no excuse for not prioritising kicking ability. It's such an obvious hole on our list, I'd be staggered if it wasn't addressed.

[DOG GOD]

Looking thru a few phantom drafts it seems this kid is highly rated in skill level (kicking)... Could be a chance for a 2nd rounder maybe...

Sam Colquhon 179cm def/mid

Anyone know much about him?

[ledge]

Certainly can be, if it's mis-managed. Look at Luke Ball as a prime example, he was basically crippled by it for a number of years because of it. Cal Ward is another example of a player who has previously struggled with it and has once again had issues with it this year.

OP is basically an overuse injury, causing stress in and around the pubic symphysis. The muscles around there such as adductors, abs, hip flexors etc are used a hell of a lot in footy and particularly in young developing players (like Hunter) they need to manage it effectively to ensure it doesn't become a long term issue.

The timing isn't great for Lachlan as i'd imagine he would want to do everything within his power to impress AFL clubs to ensure he gets picked up. Testing at the combine such as agility and the explosive testing like vertical leap and repeat sprints are not ideal for recovery and even the handball and kicking drills probably wont help.

In saying that if you know as a club you can manage it and you know it's the reason why he isn't going 100 % and all players have medicals before being signed so you would know the actual problem, if a player is still getting in the best players and kicking goals in the TAC cup
I would think he be a great chance to take.
ALso being father /son we would have kept an eye on him for the last 3 or 4 years so we would have a decent idea on what he can be.

[GVGjr]

Looking thru a few phantom drafts it seems this kid is highly rated in skill level (kicking)... Could be a chance for a 2nd rounder maybe...

Sam Colquhon 179cm def/mid

Anyone know much about him?

Very good player especially with his skills and his decision making.

If he is available for our 2nd round pick I'd have him right in the mix.

[DOG GOD]

Very good player especially with his skills and his decision making.

If he is available for our 2nd round pick I'd have him right in the mix.

Sounds promising GVGjr...I've been looking over some phantom drafts writing down the players with great skills. If we don't go down this path, I will literally throw a brick through the tv come draft night :)

Hopefully we can nab 2 of Martin/ toumpas/ Mayes

Colquhon with our 2nd rounder and maybe guys like dean towers, Paul Marshall, Shannon Taylor, dean kent, Dylan Clarke and clay Cameron with the other pics :)

[The Underdog]

If Garlett is as talented as everybody says (and I admit I haven't seen him) and is still available at 5 then I hope we take him. If they are really going to harp on about teaching and developing kids on and off the field then hopefully they don't lose their bottle if faced with a talented kid who might need some more work than others.

[DOG GOD]

Will be very interesting to see where Garrett does go in the draft..he could easily go pick 3 to Melbourne or drop out top 10.

[Redemption97]

From a purely player needs basis who do you think will will pick?
I'm of the belief we need to get one skillful and midfielder and one tall defender with our two picks.

I think we need the best available no matter what the position is given our list. If that is a ruck or key back over an outside midfielder so be it. An upgrade is an upgrade even if it is a position we have some depth in.

We don't have many if any game breakers. So anyone who has the capacity to become a top class player I hope we get that option over a perceived need. If that is Grundy and Plowman with our first two picks so be it.

[SlimPickens]

In saying that if you know as a club you can manage it and you know it's the reason why he isn't going 100 % and all players have medicals before being signed so you would know the actual problem, if a player is still getting in the best players and kicking goals in the TAC cup
I would think he be a great chance to take.
ALso being father /son we would have kept an eye on him for the last 3 or 4 years so we would have a decent idea on what he can be.

Agree, it wouldnt hold me back from taking him. Clubs are getting much better in managing and rehabilitating these types of injuries. I still wouldn't be understating the injury he has.

[ledge]

Of all the f/s we have had lately he seems to be the one slipping quietly in but his stats say he is a fairly good player. Hope his attitude is whats required too

[LostDoggy]

Any one take guess at what value Viney and Daniher would be if not Fs?
And
Should we bid for them with our picks.
If Viney is actually worth a high pick why wouldnt we use 5/6 on him?
This would force Melbournes hand if not we get Viney.
Just a thought.

[SlimPickens]

Any one take guess at what value Viney and Daniher would be if not Fs?
And
Should we bid for them with our picks.
If Viney is actually worth a high pick why wouldnt we use 5/6 on him?
This would force Melbournes hand if not we get Viney.
Just a thought.

Daniher would be a top 3 pick and Essendon will have to use their first round for him.

Viney is an interesting one, I don't think Melbourne will have to use one of their first picks but I can guarantee they're nervous about the fact that they might have to. I don't see him as a player we would need but could certainly see him as a type the gold coast in particular could certainly use.

[GVGjr]

Daniher would be a top 3 pick and Essendon will have to use their first round for him.

Viney is an interesting one, I don't think Melbourne will have to use one of their first picks but I can guarantee they're nervous about the fact that they might have to. I don't see him as a player we would need but could certainly see him as a type the gold coast in particular could certainly use.

I think you are correct. I've been advised that the club is hoping that GC do make Melbourne use pick 3. Might be a nice gift to us from Clayton. The Tigers should make sure that Essendon use pick 10 on Daniher.

[LostDoggy]

Daniher would be a top 3 pick and Essendon will have to use their first round for him.

Viney is an interesting one, I don't think Melbourne will have to use one of their first picks but I can guarantee they're nervous about the fact that they might have to. I don't see him as a player we would need but could certainly see him as a type the gold coast in particular could certainly use.

If Daniher is possible top 3 and we bid 5 for him does that mean we get him because ours is higher?

[SlimPickens]

If Daniher is possible top 3 and we bid 5 for him does that mean we get him because ours is higher?

No it means Essendon will have to use their first pick to get him, which they will do.

[LostDoggy]

No it means Essendon will have to use their first pick to get him, which they will do.

Cool that must also mean that if any clubs use there a first round pick to bid on Viney then Melbourne will have to use there's. Which means that we do not have to rely so much on GC wanting him. Of course this relies on someone thinking he is worth a pick in first round.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Cool that must also mean that if any clubs use there a first round pick to bid on Viney then Melbourne will have to use there's. Which means that we do not have to rely so much on GC wanting him. Of course this relies on someone thinking he is worth a pick in first round.

No. That's not it. It means that if a club with a pick earlier than Melbourne nominates that pick, then Melbourne must use their next available pick. If a club with a pick later than Melbourne nominates say their 1st round pick, then Melbourne can use their next available pick. So if anyone other than GWS or GC are the highest bidders for Viney, then they won't have to use their 1st round picks.

[Greystache]

Cool that must also mean that if any clubs use there a first round pick to bid on Viney then Melbourne will have to use there's. Which means that we do not have to rely so much on GC wanting him. Of course this relies on someone thinking he is worth a pick in first round.

No, only teams that have their pick before Melbourne (GC and GWS). If a team whose pick is after Melbourne's nominate Viney then Melbourne have to use their next available pick, ie 2nd round.

[Mofra]

Cool that must also mean that if any clubs use there a first round pick to bid on Viney then Melbourne will have to use there's. Which means that we do not have to rely so much on GC wanting him. Of course this relies on someone thinking he is worth a pick in first round.
Melbourne will have to use their first pick immediately following any other club's bid - unless GWS or GCS use pick 1 or 2 to bid on Viney, Melbourne won't need to use their picks 3 or 4 on him.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

By following pick I assume you mean next higher pick so if a club uses pick 18 for example then surely the following pick for Melbourne is there next first round pick being 3. Unless following pick means next closest pick either higher or lower. Not sure what following means in this case?

Unless in the case where the club has no higher picks and therefore default to there highest which could be lower than the bidders.

No. If a club nominates pick 18 and this is the highest bid then Melbourne must use its NEXT pick, meaning its next pick after 18, which would be its second round pick.

[LostDoggy]

No. If a club nominates pick 18 and this is the highest bid then Melbourne must use its NEXT pick, meaning its next pick after 18, which would be its second round pick.

Cool thanks makes sense. Well I would say that its most likely that Melbourne take him with there second pick then.

[Sedat]

Melbourne will have to use their first pick immediately following any other club's bid - unless GWS or GCS use pick 1 or 2 to bid on Viney, Melbourne won't need to use their picks 3 or 4 on him.
There is no way that one of GWS or GC won't nominate for Viney and make Melbourne use pick 3 on him. I can see Sheeds goading and daring Melbourne not to select him.

[ledge]

There is no way that one of GWS or GC won't nominate for Viney and make Melbourne use pick 3 on him. I can see Sheeds goading and daring Melbourne not to select him.

Melbourne got the AFL to give special permission for him
To play VFL this year GWS be stupid not to pick him he is going to
Melbourne no matter what make them use the first pick

[Remi Moses]

There is no way that one of GWS or GC won't nominate for Viney and make Melbourne use pick 3 on him. I can see Sheeds goading and daring Melbourne not to select him.

Do Melbourne seriously think telling the world they're not going to pay overs for Viney going to work? Sheedy's got a Bee in his bonet with them for starters.

[Ghost Dog]

Do Melbourne seriously think telling the world they're not going to pay overs for Viney going to work? Sheedy's got a Bee in his bonet with them for starters.

What is the bee in his bonnet about?

[chef]

What is the bee in his bonnet about?

Maybe the Scully stuff.

[Ghost Dog]

Scully had a poor year by all accounts. He used to live opposite me in Malvern East. Was funny to think a young bloke, carring his basket of washing, almost a kid, getting paid ridiculous amounts of money like that. Does Sheeds want his money back does he?

edit: Thanks Grestache for below.

[Greystache]

What is the bee in his bonnet about?

He interviewed for the Melbourne coaching job and lost out to Dean Bailey.

[azabob]

He interviewed for the Melbourne coaching job and lost out to Dean Bailey.

Did he even go for an interview? Didn't he think he was entitled to be exempt from the process?

[Greystache]

Did he even go for an interview? Didn't he think he was entitled to be exempt from the process?

He interviewed but was eliminated in the first round and didn't take it very well.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

There is no way that one of GWS or GC won't nominate for Viney and make Melbourne use pick 3 on him. I can see Sheeds goading and daring Melbourne not to select him.

Not convinced.
Why would GWS risk losing the best prospect in the draft in Whitfield to Gold Coast just to try and bluff Melbourne into using pick 3 on Viney? Way to big a risk.
And unless GC think that Viney is clearly the second best player then they too are taking a big risk.
No, u think unfortunately the Dees will get a free run at getting Viney with their second round pick.

[LostDoggy]

Is Viney good enough to be a first round pick ? Would he be in our sights for a 5 or 6, or he's not that good to waste a top pick ?

[Mofra]

Is Viney good enough to be a first round pick ? Would he be in our sights for a 5 or 6, or he's not that good to waste a top pick ?
He's a highly rated inside mid, may not be available at 5 anyway on the open market and with Libba/Wallis/Smith and Hunter I think we coudl look at others just as highly rated.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Is Viney good enough to be a first round pick ? Would he be in our sights for a 5 or 6, or he's not that good to waste a top pick ?

We are not even in the frame for him. Our pick is after Melbourne's and so either GWS or GC force Melbourne to use pick 3 for him, or they don't and Melbourne nominate their second round pick for him and noone else can stop it.
Pick 3 is about fair market price for Viney. Would definitely be a to 5 prospect if he was not a father son pick.

[LostDoggy]

Thanks YHF, clears up the draft question I had.

[mjp]

Viney is an absolute JET and whilst Whitfield probably just shades him those two would be dominating the 1-2 debate if he wasn't father son.

Melbourne will do whatever they need to in order to get him - boost for the club, for membership and he is a really good player who is worth the pick. Gold Coast will bid for him to make them use pick 3. All's fair in love and war.

[Greystache]

Viney is an absolute JET and whilst Whitfield probably just shades him those two would be dominating the 1-2 debate if he wasn't father son.

Melbourne will do whatever they need to in order to get him - boost for the club, for membership and he is a really good player who is worth the pick. Gold Coast will bid for him to make them use pick 3. All's fair in love and war.

Given their lack of strong bodies and now Caddy leaving, GC would do well to end up with Viney. Agree with you, can't see Melbourne letting him go at any cost.

[The Underdog]

Viney is an absolute JET and whilst Whitfield probably just shades him those two would be dominating the 1-2 debate if he wasn't father son.

Melbourne will do whatever they need to in order to get him - boost for the club, for membership and he is a really good player who is worth the pick. Gold Coast will bid for him to make them use pick 3. All's fair in love and war.

Good. That is the point of the current father son system. Teams should pay as close to real cost as possible. If Viney is a top 2 player in this draft then pick 3 is appropriate. It also means that there is a player that we wouldn't have access to using up one of the picks before ours which is a positive.

[bulldogsman]

Viney is an absolute JET and whilst Whitfield probably just shades him those two would be dominating the 1-2 debate if he wasn't father son.

Melbourne will do whatever they need to in order to get him - boost for the club, for membership and he is a really good player who is worth the pick. Gold Coast will bid for him to make them use pick 3. All's fair in love and war.

His injury probably hurt him as well. I know I was a bit unsure where he would go after the champs even though he did enough before hand. I mean he was a better player then Toby Greene last year when at the Oakleigh Chargers, but a year younger. So that would give a good gauge to AFL clubs as to how good he can become.

GC should absolutely nominate him especially after Caddy walking out on the club as well.

[Remi Moses]

He interviewed for the Melbourne coaching job and lost out to Dean Bailey.

Also rejected him as a player.

[kruder]

Martin and Hogan will be the best available at our pics and I'd be happy to throw in the kitchen sink at the mini and take both. Make no mistake these two players will be elite. You will have to wait longer but bulldog members are used to that.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Martin and Hogan will be the best available at our pics and I'd be happy to throw in the kitchen sink at the mini and take both. Make no mistake these two players will be elite. You will have to wait longer but bulldog members are used to that.

happy to wait. We 're not going anywhere in a hurry.

[Mantis]

happy to wait. We're not going anywhere in a hurry.

Well at least until the current TV deal runs it course... After that who knows??

[Throughandthrough]

JUSTIN Hardy's transformation from key defender to forward-line spearhead has done more than help him snare a Ken Farmer Medal


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/scouts-eye-hardy/story-fn525un5-1226475979882

[whythelongface]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/scouts-eye-hardy/story-fn525un5-1226475979882

Interesting that Central Districts Bulldog's General Manager is a Kris Grant.

[bulldogsman]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/scouts-eye-hardy/story-fn525un5-1226475979882

What's your opinion of him T & T?

[bornadog]

Looks like GWS and GC will pass on Brodie Grundy. If Melbourne don't want him, would we look at him:

Details are here (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/148002/default.aspx)

He is another ruckman, but so what.

[chef]

I hope not. We already have 4 rucks(I expect Campbell to get upgraded) so it's really the last thing we need. I think he'll end up at Melbourne.

[bulldogsman]

Looks like GWS and GC will pass on Brodie Grundy. If Melbourne don't want him, would we look at him:

Details are here (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/148002/default.aspx)

He is another ruckman, but so what.

I would be reluctant to take him as a top 10 pick, but that's just me. And as chef said, we have enough ruckman

[hotdog]

It scares me that he is refered to as a "competitive beast" in the article, sounds familiar... I don't want a ruckman at this pick and hope we pass for midfield talent

[Sockeye Salmon]

1. Whitfield
2. Toumpas
3. Viney
4. Grundy (GWS) via mini draft pick

[GVGjr]

1. Whitfield
2. Toumpas
3. Viney
4. Grundy (GWS) via mini draft pick

Do you think Melbourne will target Martin, Hogan or Kelly?

[Throughandthrough]

What's your opinion of him T & T?

Saw him absolutely make some good defenders look really silly a few months ago when he kicked a lazy 8 against Glenelg. Is a BIG unit, plays as a leading forward and can kick straight.


Good enough for me!

PS talking to an "expert" re Grundy, he is rated highly for his elite speed for a big man.

[Maddog37]

This sounds like the talk surrounding Redpath last year. Big unit, straight kick.

[ledge]

This sounds like the talk surrounding Redpath last year. Big unit, straight kick.

Redpath is a big boy I think he will make it, a bit raw but definitely an upside.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Do you think Melbourne will target Martin, Hogan or Kelly?

Hogan, I hope.

I must say though, with what I saw in the champs if we traded for MD2 and Melbourne took Martin, I wouldn't cry over getting left with Hogan.

[stefoid]

If we were to go for MD#2, what would we pay? Not straight out pick #6... I would go for something like pick 6 and GWS's compo pick (#20) for our 2nd rounder (#27)

[bornadog]

I hope not. We already have 4 rucks(I expect Campbell to get upgraded) so it's really the last thing we need. I think he'll end up at Melbourne.

We must take the best available at our pick, and if that means another ruckman so be it.

Some people don't understand this concept but you have to think of it like this:

eg: Lets say we want a midfielder but the best available player at our pick is a Nick Natinui. The danger is we by pass Nick and pick up Clay Smith. That is the sort of thing that can happen. We should always pick the player we believe is the best footballer.

[Sockeye Salmon]

We must take the best available at our pick, and if that means another ruckman so be it.

Some people don't understand this concept but you have to think of it like this:

eg: Lets say we want a midfielder but the best available player at our pick is a Nick Natinui. The danger is we by pass Nick and pick up Clay Smith. That is the sort of thing that can happen. We should always pick the player we believe is the best footballer.

Can't agree. For starters you are comparing pick 2 with pick 17.

Melbourne picked 'best available' and got Jack Watts. Surely Watts was a better comparison to Natinui than Smith?

No-one knows which of these kids will be the better player in 5 years time. You might have a vague idea, the big Fijian who can jump over the grandstand is likely to be a better prospect than the short kid from Gippsland who can't kick, for instance.


Think of the draft in groups.

Every draft there is a small number of standouts - these kids go in the first few picks.

Then there are the good solid prospects, depending on the year, somewhere between 10-20 perhaps.

After pick 25 or so the pool is vast and most of these kids don't make it.


Statistically, any kid within the same group has about the same likelihood of success as any other, it's impossible to predict who will kick on and who won't.

You don't use a first round pick on a kid you rate 30th just because he's the type you need, but make sure your list is balanced.

If we rate Grundy 6th and Gartlett 7th, take Gartlett. He's what we need and it's impossible to know who will be the better player in 5 years. Hell, even then we might still be arguing the point.

[bornadog]

Can't agree. For starters you are comparing pick 2 with pick 17.

Melbourne picked 'best available' and got Jack Watts. Surely Watts was a better comparison to Natinui than Smith?

No-one knows which of these kids will be the better player in 5 years time. You might have a vague idea, the big Fijian who can jump over the grandstand is likely to be a better prospect than the short kid from Gippsland who can't kick, for instance.


Think of the draft in groups.

Every draft there is a small number of standouts - these kids go in the first few picks.

Then there are the good solid prospects, depending on the year, somewhere between 10-20 perhaps.

After pick 25 or so the pool is vast and most of these kids don't make it.


Statistically, any kid within the same group has about the same likelihood of success as any other, it's impossible to predict who will kick on and who won't.

You don't use a first round pick on a kid you rate 30th just because he's the type you need, but make sure your list is balanced.

If we rate Grundy 6th and Gartlett 7th, take Gartlett. He's what we need and it's impossible to know who will be the better player in 5 years. Hell, even then we might still be arguing the point.

I agree with you SS, 100%, I guess my example was a silly one, but in the end you do take the best available at your pick, so as you say, there will be a bunch of players that are perceived equal in ability and you take the one that suits your needs.

However, if some reason there were 5 ruckman that are highly rated in the top ten, you don't just ignore them at pick 5 or 6, even though you may not need a ruckman for next season.

[bulldogsman]

Saw him absolutely make some good defenders look really silly a few months ago when he kicked a lazy 8 against Glenelg. Is a BIG unit, plays as a leading forward and can kick straight.


Good enough for me!

PS talking to an "expert" re Grundy, he is rated highly for his elite speed for a big man.

Thanks T & T.

He's certainly got more runs on the board then Redpath anyway.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I agree with you SS, 100%, I guess my example was a silly one, but in the end you do take the best available at your pick, so as you say, there will be a bunch of players that are perceived equal in ability and you take the one that suits your needs.

However, if some reason there were 5 ruckman that are highly rated in the top ten, you don't just ignore them at pick 5 or 6, even though you may not need a ruckman for next season.

I kind of agree with what you are saying Bornadog, but ruck man are potentially also the exception to the rule

It seems to be almost impossible to project how Ruckmen will progress to AFL level. It could be argued that drafting ruck man from the state leagues is almost as successful as drafting them with early picks - ok perhaps a bridge too far, but Jacobs, Hudson, Giles, Jolly could all have been anyones and Josh Fraser and Kreuzer are perhaps examples of how its hard to project ruck prospects.

[Mofra]

I kind of agree with what you are saying Bornadog, but ruck man are potentially also the exception to the rule

It seems to be almost impossible to project how Ruckmen will progress to AFL level. It could be argued that drafting ruck man from the state leagues is almost as successful as drafting them with early picks - ok perhaps a bridge too far, but Jacobs, Hudson, Giles, Jolly could all have been anyones and Josh Fraser and Kreuzer are perhaps examples of how its hard to project ruck prospects.
I'm with SS on this one - there are only rare circumstances when a ruckman taken in the first round is clearly better than his contemporaries - Nicnat may be the only example.

Even the Kreuzer selection is comparable to Cotchin at no 2 (goven a choice right now, I'd take Cotchin). Consider all the rookie rucks that have made the grade (Cox, Jolly, Mumford) and on a bang for buck basis, I'd be happy to pass on Grundy - especially cosnidering some of the hype tends to indicate he's a "tweener".

If we end up with both picks 5 & 6 after trade week, the sound of a Mayes/Stringer/Plowman type are more attractive than a Grundy in my uninformed, non-u18 watching opinion.

[bornadog]

I'm with SS on this one - there are only rare circumstances when a ruckman taken in the first round is clearly better than his contemporaries - Nicnat may be the only example.

Even the Kreuzer selection is comparable to Cotchin at no 2 (goven a choice right now, I'd take Cotchin). Consider all the rookie rucks that have made the grade (Cox, Jolly, Mumford) and on a bang for buck basis, I'd be happy to pass on Grundy - especially cosnidering some of the hype tends to indicate he's a "tweener".

If we end up with both picks 5 & 6 after trade week, the sound of a Mayes/Stringer/Plowman type are more attractive than a Grundy in my uninformed, non-u18 watching opinion.

Mofra, you have missed the point, and sorry for blurring with the ruckman example.

What I am saying is when you draft you go for the best available at your pick and doesn't matter what position they play. You don't say I need an outside mid and pick the next outside mid when the next best maybe say a fullback or whatever.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Mofra, you have missed the point, and sorry for blurring with the ruckman example.

What I am saying is when you draft you go for the best available at your pick and doesn't matter what position they play. You don't say I need an outside mid and pick the next outside mid when the next best maybe say a fullback or whatever.

Unless there's a massive difference you balance your list.

Best available is bullshit

[whythelongface]

Unless there's a massive difference you balance your list.

Best available is bullshit

I agree with this. The 'best available' should really be the 'best available player that meets our current needs'.

[bornadog]

Unless there's a massive difference you balance your list.

Best available is bullshit


I agree with this. The 'best available' should really be the 'best available player that meets our current needs'.

We will agree to disagree. I would always want the best player in my team.

[Mofra]

Mofra, you have missed the point, and sorry for blurring with the ruckman example.

What I am saying is when you draft you go for the best available at your pick and doesn't matter what position they play. You don't say I need an outside mid and pick the next outside mid when the next best maybe say a fullback or whatever.
I don't think "best available" is a blanket rule, especially considering the strike rate of high-draft pick rucks, and considering our list balance.

Obviously if there is a big difference in talent, we take the best player (ie we seem ok for key backs but Plowman is rated highly for his footskills as well).

Last year we identified the type of player we wanted before the draft, the year before we simply took the best available.
Even Howard's mum wouldn't swap Howard for Clay Smith in a theoretical trade.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Even Howard's mum wouldn't swap Howard for Clay Smith in a theoretical trade.

The two are complete opposites but I don't see that much difference between the two players. Both have good qualities but both have a major flaw in their game. The flaws are just different ones.

[Mofra]

The two are complete opposites but I don't see that much difference between the two players. Both have good qualities but both have a major flaw in their game. The flaws are just different ones.
Agree to disagree - I think Smith is miles ahead of Howard and is a certainty to play plenty of AFL at the highest level.

I remain unconvinced with Howard who seems to be a low intensity kid with good footskills who doesn't have a definate position yet (ie sounds alot like Everitt).

[whythelongface]

We will agree to disagree. I would always want the best player in my team.

Unless there is a standout player/s the whole best player available debate is purely subjective. eg A player may go at pick 6 but not necessarily be better than the player that goes at pick 7, 8 or 9, however in the eyes of that club, the pick 6 might be a better player for their current needs.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Agree to disagree - I think Smith is miles ahead of Howard and is a certainty to play plenty of AFL at the highest level.

I remain unconvinced with Howard who seems to be a low intensity kid with good footskills who doesn't have a definate position yet (ie sounds alot like Everitt).

I agree on Howard but I'm not convinced about Smith either. I don't think anyone who kicks it that poorly can ever be a top liner.

[bulldogsman]

We will agree to disagree. I would always want the best player in my team.

Depends on what the coach wants. Last year McCartney wanted the best available inside mid, so we got Clay. The recruiters rated Crozier higher didn't they?

[Greystache]

What I am saying is when you draft you go for the best available at your pick and doesn't matter what position they play. You don't say I need an outside mid and pick the next outside mid when the next best maybe say a fullback or whatever.

I get what you're saying and I agree in many cases. We reached for Walsh in 2002 because the best available in the pick #4 range were mids and we were adament we were drafting tall, as it turns out Walsh was miles off the level. In 2009 we decided we're drafting the best kicks available regardless of talent and we ended up with Howard who looks unlikely to make it.

Drafting by type is very dangerous if that type available is a player who's exposed form is considerably inferior to other players available.

Using your ruckman analogy, a club could draft the best ruckman available in the draft with an early pick because that's a needs based selection, but the best available ruckman in a particular draft could be an average prospect who just happens to be the best in a bad year.

[bornadog]

I get what you're saying and I agree in many cases. We reached for Walsh in 2002 because the best available in the pick #4 range were mids and we were adament we were drafting tall, as it turns out Walsh was miles off the level. In 2009 we decided we're drafting the best kicks available regardless of talent and we ended up with Howard who looks unlikely to make it.

Drafting by type is very dangerous if that type available is a player who's exposed form is considerably inferior to other players available.

Using your ruckman analogy, a club could draft the best ruckman available in the draft with an early pick because that's a needs based selection, but the best available ruckman in a particular draft could be an average prospect who just happens to be the best in a bad year.

You have said it better than I did.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I get what you're saying and I agree in many cases. We reached for Walsh in 2002 because the best available in the pick #4 range were mids and we were adament we were drafting tall, as it turns out Walsh was miles off the level. In 2009 we decided we're drafting the best kicks available regardless of talent and we ended up with Howard who looks unlikely to make it.

Drafting by type is very dangerous if that type available is a player who's exposed form is considerably inferior to other players available.

Using your ruckman analogy, a club could draft the best ruckman available in the draft with an early pick because that's a needs based selection, but the best available ruckman in a particular draft could be an average prospect who just happens to be the best in a bad year.

Walsh could have been OK if not for all his injuries, he was always going to be a top 10 pick. If we wanted a midfielder we could have always taken Faulkner ...

Howard was a bit similar to Tambling - dominated at a very low level but how do you know how good they are until they've been tested? That was always a risky pick.

[Mofra]

Drafting by type is very dangerous if that type available is a player who's exposed form is considerably inferior to other players available.
You'd be happy with inside mids at 5 & 6, and 2nd & 3rd rounds as well as Lachie Hunter as long as they're the best available?

Given the marginalities of difference between players of different types, I can't say such a narrow approach would really be in out best interests. Noting what our list needs is a little different than "reaching" for a particular type of player.

[Greystache]

You'd be happy with inside mids at 5 & 6, and 2nd & 3rd rounds as well as Lachie Hunter as long as they're the best available?

Given the marginalities of difference between players of different types, I can't say such a narrow approach would really be in out best interests. Noting what our list needs is a little different than "reaching" for a particular type of player.

If they are clear standouts over the other players available at comparable picks then yes, if not then balancing the selection needs to considered. Selecting a player who gets delisted in 2 years becuase he was an outside mid and we wanted pace hurts more than selecting someone that becomes a good AFL player but might be similar to others you already have.

Having said that it's not that often that one player stands out so much over others at a specific pick, but reaching for a skillset is very risky.

[Greystache]

Walsh could have been OK if not for all his injuries, he was always going to be a top 10 pick. If we wanted a midfielder we could have always taken Faulkner ...

Howard was a bit similar to Tambling - dominated at a very low level but how do you know how good they are until they've been tested? That was always a risky pick.

Walsh was a very average footballer, we reached hoping he'd develop late but it was a big reach. He wasn't able to hold down CHF at B grade amateurs level straight out of the AFL system, and ended being a solid player as an outside midfielder.

Faulker? How is he relevant? He was selected at pick 17. The next player selected was Jarrad McVeigh.

Howard didn't dominate anything, he got drafted so early based on some good late under 18 SANFL form, Tambling was an All Australian

[Desipura]

Walsh could have been OK if not for all his injuries, he was always going to be a top 10 pick. If we wanted a midfielder we could have always taken Faulkner ...

Howard was a bit similar to Tambling - dominated at a very low level but how do you know how good they are until they've been tested? That was always a risky pick.
This is totally inaccurate. There were always concerns about Walsh's lack of intensity well before he was drafted.
Injuries is just an excuse. If he was that good, why didnt another club draft him after we delisted him?
What level of footy did Howard dominate, SANFL seconds? Hardly a good guide.

[Mofra]

If they are clear standouts over the other players available at comparable picks then yes, if not then balancing the selection needs to considered. Selecting a player who gets delisted in 2 years becuase he was an outside mid and we wanted pace hurts more than selecting someone that becomes a good AFL player but might be similar to others you already have.

Having said that it's not that often that one player stands out so much over others at a specific pick, but reaching for a skillset is very risky.
I think that's where we have a misunderstanding - taking needs into consideration doesn't necessarily mean reaching for a particular type which is a completely different kettle of fish.

If it's lineball between a ruckman (eg Grundy) and a high-forward/mid with excellent footskills (ie Mayes), I'd expect us to take Mayes even if most rate Grundy as a 1% better footballer.

[LongWait]

As with most things in life, in sports talent selection there are few absolutes.

"Best available" and "best fit for needs" are probably both factors in each selection decision. Clubs will attribute relative importance to each from draft to draft and even within the one draft from selection to selection. I think in practice it is usually a case of most clubs striking a balance which is rarely fixed at any time.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Walsh could have been OK if not for all his injuries, he was always going to be a top 10 pick. If we wanted a midfielder we could have always taken Faulkner.

As others have already said, Walsh always had concerns prior to drafting and these were emphasized when he got into the AFL system.

He struggled in Werribee's reserves.

It was a terrible draft though.

[anfo27]

I agree on Howard but I'm not convinced about Smith either. I don't think anyone who kicks it that poorly can ever be a top liner.

Jobe Watson was a shocking kick not so long ago & through hard work has improved. I have my doubts on Clay to but if Clay can work his butt off, then maybe he can improve his kicking like Jobe has done.

[GVGjr]

You'd be happy with inside mids at 5 & 6, and 2nd & 3rd rounds as well as Lachie Hunter as long as they're the best available?

Given the marginalities of difference between players of different types, I can't say such a narrow approach would really be in out best interests. Noting what our list needs is a little different than "reaching" for a particular type of player.

I have a vastly modified version on this and lets face it no club sticks 100% to the best available concept anyway.

To me, if you believe a player will be a star or is clearly better than the needs based player then you stick with the best available.
This will most likely only be for the first round selections.

For all other selections the needs based player receives a lot more scope.

[LostDoggy]

Thought about the draft at length last night. The most sensible thing from Melbourne's perspective is they give GWS pick 3 for Pick 1 in the minidraft. The rules state they can't be forced to use 4 or 13 on Viney which means they automatically then bank Viney at 24. If they don't do this they risk having to use 3 on Viney when this way they don't have to. They can guarentee to bank 4 top 15 picks by doing this.

That gives GWS 1 and 3, Gold Coast 2 and Melbourne 4. GWS probably take Grundy or Plowman at 3 (fills the need), Whitfield and Toumpass probably 1 and 2. I'd therefore be inclined to offer pick 6 for the 2nd minidraft pick if I was the club to get either Hogan or Martin who both fill needs areas. Then use pick 5 on best available.

[Maddog37]

Good, common sense post. But father son bidding is done prior to the draft so if GWS bid on Viney then Melb have a choice to make as I understand it. Or is minidraft done defore father son?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Thought about the draft at length last night. The most sensible thing from Melbourne's perspective is they give GWS pick 3 for Pick 1 in the minidraft. The rules state they can't be forced to use 4 or 13 on Viney which means they automatically then bank Viney at 24. If they don't do this they risk having to use 3 on Viney when this way they don't have to. They can guarentee to bank 4 top 15 picks by doing this.

That gives GWS 1 and 3, Gold Coast 2 and Melbourne 4. GWS probably take Grundy or Plowman at 3 (fills the need), Whitfield and Toumpass probably 1 and 2. I'd therefore be inclined to offer pick 6 for the 2nd minidraft pick if I was the club to get either Hogan or Martin who both fill needs areas. Then use pick 5 on best available.

Are you taking the piss?

FFS. F/S bidding comes first, you can't just trade away all your picks and take a F/S with a fourth rounder!

How many times do we have to go over this?

[divvydan]

Not sure how the club rates him but maybe using #6 to get MD #2 and Jed Anderson (who is a GWS zone option), perhaps also using our 2nd rd pick. I know he's already returned home from GWS once as a kid (was 18 in Feb) but he appears to be very keen to give it another go anywhere in the AFL. Small at 178cm but a good left foot kick and can kick goals as well, playing in midfield.

[GVGjr]

Not sure how the club rates him but maybe using #6 to get MD #2 and Jed Anderson (who is a GWS zone option), perhaps also using our 2nd rd pick. I know he's already returned home from GWS once as a kid (was 18 in Feb) but he appears to be very keen to give it another go anywhere in the AFL. Small at 178cm but a good left foot kick and can kick goals as well, playing in midfield.

Anderson would be a good addition. If we can get him into the mix I think it's worth considering.

[LostDoggy]

Are you taking the piss?

FFS. F/S bidding comes first, you can't just trade away all your picks and take a F/S with a fourth rounder!

How many times do we have to go over this?

Your sentiment is fair the crap you've wrapped around it is not. I've gone over it exactly once. At 7000+ posts perhaps you've done it a couple more.

Better for us that I'm wrong although I still doubt GC will
bid which leaves Melbourne in a pretty good position.

[Go_Dogs]

Anderson would be a good addition. If we can get him into the mix I think it's worth considering.

Agreed, we need to get creative and I think getting Anderson into any deal we do could be a great move.

[bulldogsman]

Not sure how the club rates him but maybe using #6 to get MD #2 and Jed Anderson (who is a GWS zone option), perhaps also using our 2nd rd pick. I know he's already returned home from GWS once as a kid (was 18 in Feb) but he appears to be very keen to give it another go anywhere in the AFL. Small at 178cm but a good left foot kick and can kick goals as well, playing in midfield.


Anderson would be a good addition. If we can get him into the mix I think it's worth considering.


Agreed, we need to get creative and I think getting Anderson into any deal we do could be a great move.

Anderson is quality and has a good attitude by the sound of it. I would be stoked if we got Anderson and Martin.

[Go_Dogs]

Let's try to keep the thread on topic.

[Go_Dogs]

Anderson is quality and has a good attitude by the sound of it. I would be stoked if we got Anderson and Martin.

I know you suggest this some months ago now, and I'd be very keen to get this outcome.

I wonder if we have the guts to offer up pick 5 & 6 to get the deal done? Anything less might not quite cut it.

[gohardorgohome]

TAC future stars nominated Jonathan ORourke to be our top pick.

He's a Gisborne Rookies boy. I coach the Under 12s at the club. Our president was telling me he is a stand out quality player and a great kid.

Fingers crossed he'll be a good one

[bulldogsman]

I know you suggest this some months ago now, and I'd be very keen to get this outcome.

I wonder if we have the guts to offer up pick 5 & 6 to get the deal done? Anything less might not quite cut it.

I guess for our recruiting/list management department it is a pretty gutsy call. I'm very optimistic with Jason McCartney though and I think he can work something out.

It would be good to know if we have an interest in Hogan as well. Does anyone know if we have any interest?

[Mofra]

I know you suggest this some months ago now, and I'd be very keen to get this outcome.

I wonder if we have the guts to offer up pick 5 & 6 to get the deal done? Anything less might not quite cut it.
I'd be happy with anything that gets us Martin to be honest, and Anderson sounds like the type of player we need to compliment our midfield structure.

I dare say there would be some venting if we trade away both 5 & 6 but for the right deal I'd be over the moon.
Will be very interesting to watch O'Meara in 2013 given the obvious similarities in (suggested at this stage) strategy.

[mjp]

Martin > O'Meara.

Jaeger is good but Jack is going to be unbelievable.

[azabob]

Martin > O'Meara.

Jaeger is good but Jack is going to be unbelievable.

Swap pick 5 & 6 unbeliveable?

[Remi Moses]

Martin > O'Meara.

Jaeger is good but Jack is going to be unbelievable.

Wow!
Going to be hard to see the three above us not offering a better deal.

[Maddog37]

Gold Coast won't use number one pick on mini draft. GWS can't be involved which leaves Melbourne. If they are forced to use pick 3 on Viney it will help our cause. They also are apparently more interested in Hogan.

[LongWait]

Martin > O'Meara.

Jaeger is good but Jack is going to be unbelievable.

If it was your call MJP, would you trade 5 and 6 for both Martin and Hogan?

It would be a balls deep move but some are speculating it might be on the table (with some other peripheral sweeteners perhaps.)

[KT31]

If it was your call MJP, would you trade 5 and 6 for both Martin and Hogan?

It would be a balls deep move but some are speculating it might be on the table (with some other peripheral sweeteners perhaps.)

If they turn out to be two quality players and its a benifit to us , why not ?
Could it be any worse than some of Claytons efforts ?

[Remi Moses]

Gold Coast won't use number one pick on mini draft. GWS can't be involved which leaves Melbourne. If they are forced to use pick 3 on Viney it will help our cause. They also are apparently more interested in Hogan.

You're probably right. Hope to Christ GC or GWS bid on Viney.
Got a feeling GC will, not sure I'd be using both picks on Martin.

[azabob]

Gold Coast won't use number one pick on mini draft. GWS can't be involved which leaves Melbourne. If they are forced to use pick 3 on Viney it will help our cause. They also are apparently more interested in Hogan.

GC have pick two don't they? Splitting hairs, but....

GWS may well come from the trade period with pick one, two and three, very likely to happen in my opinion.

[1eyedog]

That is my recollection.

Darling is only 190cm. Fevola 191cm. It doesn't matter. If you jump at the ball hard and take it at the highest point - with your left knee collecting one opponent and your right knee connecting with another - 191cm is plenty big enough.

Unfortrunately there are only perhaps 2-3 opportunities to do this per game while there are perhaps 8-12 opportunities to one on one your opponent. If you are 191 and against a bloke who is 195 forget it, unless you are a big, big unit and are super adept at reading the flight of the ball.

The law of averages suggests that the ball will more often than not sit on your head in a one on one rather than create an opportunity to run and jump at the ball in a pack.

The bigger man will usually win the aerial contest.

[mjp]

Unfortrunately there are only perhaps 2-3 opportunities to do this per game while there are perhaps 8-12 opportunities to one on one your opponent. If you are 191 and against a bloke who is 195 forget it, unless you are a big, big unit and are super adept at reading the flight of the ball.

The law of averages suggests that the ball will more often than not sit on your head in a one on one rather than create an opportunity to run and jump at the ball in a pack.

The bigger man will usually win the aerial contest.

Tell me again about all those 195cm + dominating key forwards? Totally disagree with all of that...a one on one contest in the forward line in the AFL in 2012+???? Never happens.

[Remi Moses]

Tell me again about all those 195cm + dominating key forwards? Totally disagree with all of that...a one on one contest in the forward line in the AFL in 2012+???? Never happens.

What do you think of Membrey?

[1eyedog]

Tell me again about all those 195cm + dominating key forwards? Totally disagree with all of that...a one on one contest in the forward line in the AFL in 2012+???? Never happens.

I agree that Maxwell and Gibson have been fantastic 6'3 third player up defenders both this season and last but I still think there are a number of opportunities for one on one contests at full forward.

Travis Cloke and Jon Brown types are isolated whenever their respective teams can move the ball quickly enough across the park. I saw Pav take a number of contested one on one marks in the final against Adelaide.

Tom Hawkins destroyed Ben Reid with three one on one contested marks in 15 minutes of football in last year's Grand Final.

It certainly happens.

[LostDoggy]

I don't think I've ever been as excited, intrigued, interested and worried about any other draft before as I am this year! I'm just so nervous about the club getting this right.

Menzel is an interesting prospect, could be a gun...

[bornadog]

I don't think I've ever been as excited, intrigued, interested and worried about any other draft before as I am this year! I'm just so nervous about the club getting this right.

Menzel is an interesting prospect, could be a gun...

Good article on him here (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/menzel-hoping-for-a-draft-kneesup-20121002-26xey.html)

[bornadog]

I wonder what pick Garlett will go for?

Another nice article here (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149028/default.aspx)

[stefoid]

Good article on him here (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/menzel-hoping-for-a-draft-kneesup-20121002-26xey.html)

LARS after LARS after LARS.

Not with pick 5 or 6.

[LostDoggy]

Martin, Garlett and Anderson, WB version of Betts, Yarran and Garlett? I could live with that :)

[bulldogsman]

I wonder what pick Garlett will go for?

Another nice article here (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149028/default.aspx)

Hopefully at ours.

[azabob]

Hopefully at ours.

RE Gartlett I also hope we get him, but do we change tact if we are able to secure Jack Martin?

[bulldogsman]

RE Gartlett I also hope we get him, but do we change tact if we are able to secure Jack Martin?

Martin sounds like he is our number 1 target as he should be. He showed more in the champs then Garlett (arguably Whitfield), despite being a year younger. His upside is great. If it came down to it, I'd rather get Martin & Anderson over Garlett/Plowman/Macrae/O'Rourke.

Maybe there is still a chance we could get both though.

[azabob]

Martin sounds like he is our number 1 target as he should be. He showed more in the champs then Garlett (arguably Whitfield), despite being a year younger. His upside is great. If it came down to it, I'd rather get Martin & Anderson over Garlett/Plowman/Macrae/O'Rourke.

Maybe there is still a chance we could get both though.

OK, from a list management point of view if both were available we should take them. A team cannot have too much pace and good skills!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Getting both Martin and Garlett would be a great outcome, particularly taking into account the areas we are deficient in.

[Sedat]

If it came down to it, I'd rather get Martin & Anderson over Garlett/Plowman/Macrae/O'Rourke.
According to The Age today, the 3-way trade with GWS and RIchmond is still potentially on which would net us Martin and Anderson for picks 5 and 6 with pick 9 thrown back to us to use on potentially a Garlett. Thart would be very bold trading and drafting by the club.

[The Underdog]

According to The Age today, the 3-way trade with GWS and RIchmond is still potentially on which would net us Martin and Anderson for picks 5 and 6 with pick 9 thrown back to us to use on potentially a Garlett. Thart would be very bold trading and drafting by the club.

I'd be super impressed if we had the balls to do it and pulled it off. I'd think Richmond have to give up something more than just pick 9 in that deal.

[Cyberdoggie]

Lachie Hunter just starred in the agility test at draft camp.
Promising sign.

[G-Mo77]

Lachie Hunter just starred in the agility test at draft camp.
Promising sign.

It sucks. He should tank it so we can pick him up for peanuts. :p

[LostDoggy]

According to The Age today, the 3-way trade with GWS and RIchmond is still potentially on which would net us Martin and Anderson for picks 5 and 6 with pick 9 thrown back to us to use on potentially a Garlett. Thart would be very bold trading and drafting by the club.

Are we talking about Jed Anderson from up here in Darwin?

[LostDoggy]

According to The Age today, the 3-way trade with GWS and RIchmond is still potentially on which would net us Martin and Anderson for picks 5 and 6 with pick 9 thrown back to us to use on potentially a Garlett. Thart would be very bold trading and drafting by the club.

This means we in effect trade Pick 5 for Martin and forsake Pick 6 for Pick 9 and get Anderson in return.

If Anderson has promise, this is a great deal.

Must have been negotiated by Fantasia :rolleyes:

[Mofra]

Are we talking about Jed Anderson from up here in Darwin?
Ja, the NT Zoned player to GWS

[Mofra]

This means we in effect trade Pick 5 for Martin and forsake Pick 6 for Pick 9 and get Anderson in return.

If Anderson has promise, this is a great deal.

Must have been negotiated by Fantasia :rolleyes:
We always said he was a genius on this board :D

[bulldogsman]

According to The Age today, the 3-way trade with GWS and RIchmond is still potentially on which would net us Martin and Anderson for picks 5 and 6 with pick 9 thrown back to us to use on potentially a Garlett. Thart would be very bold trading and drafting by the club.

It would great move if it happens. I mentioned in the Jack Martin thread that it just doesn't seem right though.

I hope it is.

[Throughandthrough]

Does anyone on here have paid access to teh Herald Sun site? I'd love to read a copy of the Emmanuell Irra article from today. I've met E socially a few times and he's an absolute ripper bloke.

[Bulldog4life]

Does anyone on here have paid access to teh Herald Sun site? I'd love to read a copy of the Emmanuell Irra article from today. I've met E socially a few times and he's an absolute ripper bloke.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/emmanuel-irras-journey-from-uganda-to-afl-draft-camp/story-e6freck3-1226487626659


NOT long ago Emmanuel Irra was living in a tiny mud hut sheltered by a straw roof in war-torn Uganda.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

In less than two months the teenager's new home could be an AFL club, capping a journey that may yet become one of football's most remarkable.

Irra, a South Australian 18-year-old, has been invited to test at this week's combine and is hopeful his name will be read out at the November 22 national draft.

But before Irra had heard of a Sherrin, he and his family were desperately trying to escape the landlocked east African country ravaged by civil war.

The violent conflict with militant group Lord's Resistance Army forced Irra, his parents William and Felista and siblings Patricia, Charles, Agnes and Robert into what's known as a internally displaced persons camp with thousands of other homeless.

For five years they lived in a state of uncertainty under a soggy roof that had to be rebuilt every couple of months while they searched for a better life.

Australia would become that better life. After two years of health testing, the family was granted permission to move to the other side of the world.

Irra's aunty, living in Adelaide, helped raise enough money with the help of the city's Stella Maris Parish to sponsor the family's life-changing relocation.

It was 2005. Irra, who was 11, admits he doesn't remember much of that time apart from dusty games of soccer and says the move to Australia seemed to happen "in the blink of an eye".

His quietly spoken mum Felista has a far different take and talks of violence and a fear for her children's safety.

They moved into a basic home in the Adelaide suburb of Dover Gardens. Irra and the rest of his family couldn't speak a word of English, but even if they did, complaining would not have been in their vocabulary.

"It was a very simple life in Uganda, just a hut. There was no electricity, no nothing," Irra says.

"Coming here was very different. There were toilets inside ... we had never been exposed to that, you know?"

Irra went to Sacred Heart College, a famous football school that counts AFL stars Matthew Pavlich, Andrew Mackie and the Cornes brothers as alumni.

But Irra and footy wasn't exactly a story of love at first sight. "To be honest, at first I hated it," he says.

"At school they played it every day, every moment. I was trying to play soccer with a few of the other kids, but I just sort of got caught up with it."

Suddenly he was was obsessed. After picking up a ball for the first time at the age of 11 he couldn't put it down. It went with him on the bus, around the school, anywhere he was allowed to take it.

"He was always, always carrying the ball around," Felista says.

"Even when we went to the supermarket to go shopping he would take the ball. I would say `Why are you taking that ball everywhere? Leave it inside'."

As a result, the game's defining skills of kicking and handballing came relatively easily to Irra. Grasping the unique nuances of the game and its strategic elements proved more difficult. So too acquiring a thick skin.

"Every now and then I'd get in a blue because in Africa you box on with people who put you down or whatever. That's how you solve it," he says.

"I had a few in my younger days. Back then if anyone tackled me really hard I'd get up and try and hit them or something, but now I know that's the way it is."

The focus was harnessed by Michael O'Loughlin, who coached the World team in the 2010 under-16 national championships that Irra starred in, racking up 39 disposals in one game.

"By then I was really into the game and really studied and watched everything. Then I found out Micky O'Loughlin was coaching and I couldn't believe it," Irra says.

"That was an awesome experience and the turning point for me really. I went there just expecting to play and come home and whatever, but he (O'Loughlin) made me believe that it's (AFL) not that far away, that I can try and make it. He made me work even harder."

Four senior SANFL games for South Adelaide as a 17-year-old came last year, including an exciting debut against Woodville West-Torrens.

Nicknamed "E-Man", Irra is an athletic wing/half-forward with X-factor and who names Sydney's Adam Goodes and Hawthorn's Cyril Rioli as the players he wants to emulate.

Irra's elegant, but powerful running is unmistakably African. He doesn't so much sprint, but glide across the turf. He is a penetrating kick and competent on both sides of the body.

Sadly, quad and ankle injuries have taken their toll this year and somewhat blunted his influence at the under-18 national championships.

But he has been invited to test at Etihad Stadium this week and despite his setbacks remains a draft hopeful, buoyed by a recent conversation with North Melbourne's Sudanese prospect Majak Daw.

Outside the game Irra works in the multicultural department for the SANFL, helping to mentor African kids travelling the same path he did seven years ago.

In so many ways this is a young man who has been forced to grow up quick. A teenager who is desperate to learn.

It's this quality many believe will guarantee he makes it if given a chance.

[Bulldog4life]

Does anyone on here have paid access to teh Herald Sun site? I'd love to read a copy of the Emmanuell Irra article from today. I've met E socially a few times and he's an absolute ripper bloke.

By the way I haven't paid access to the Hun.:confused:

[Throughandthrough]

By the way I haven't paid access to the Hun.:confused:


Cheers for that, for whatever reason i cant open it.


I've been in a room where E has spoken to a group of young footballers and he had them all spellbound.

[Bulldog4life]

Cheers for that, for whatever reason i cant open it.


I've been in a room where E has spoken to a group of young footballers and he had them all spellbound.

Be interesting to see if he gets picked up. By the way some other articles like yourself on the Hun I can't open, others I can. Puzzling.

[w3design]

What do you think of Membrey?

If the price is right I would love to have us pick up Membrey. He is not tall, but height is not what our forward line lacks. Plenty of height with Jones, Cordy, and possibly Williams. What we lack is a bull with a bit of mongrel and aggression. The above 3 play like gentlemen.
Membrey is a real hard nut, can kick a goal, shows natural leadership, and looks like he fears nothing and no one.
Not comparing them skills wise etc, but he could bring a bit of what we lost when Baz and Hahn retired.
As I say, at the right price, he could help balance out our forward fifty quite nicely.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Does anyone on here have paid access to teh Herald Sun site? I'd love to read a copy of the Emmanuell Irra article from today. I've met E socially a few times and he's an absolute ripper bloke.

If you Google the article title, the first answer is the article on the other side of the firewall.

[bulldogsman]

If the price is right I would love to have us pick up Membrey. He is not tall, but height is not what our forward line lacks. Plenty of height with Jones, Cordy, and possibly Williams. What we lack is a bull with a bit of mongrel and aggression. The above 3 play like gentlemen.
Membrey is a real hard nut, can kick a goal, shows natural leadership, and looks like he fears nothing and no one.
Not comparing them skills wise etc, but he could bring a bit of what we lost when Baz and Hahn retired.
As I say, at the right price, he could help balance out our forward fifty quite nicely.

I agree with the aggression/mongrel call, I'm just not sure about Membrey. That height I find very hard to judge. I would have liked to see him get more of the ball up the ground.

[LongWait]

Be interesting to see if he gets picked up. By the way some other articles like yourself on the Hun I can't open, others I can. Puzzling.

Many Hun articles are behind their paywall and so theoretically can't be accessed unless you subscribe.

However...if you can find the headline for the article you want, you can try the following, which will often by-pass a paywall:

1. Select and highlight the text of the article headline;
2. Copy highlighted text to your clipboard;
3. Open a new Google search page in your web browser and copy the headline text into the search box and hit enter;
4. When the search page comes up the entry at the top of the list should be the news article you want;
5. Do not just click on the headline; if you do you will go back to the paywall;
6. There will be light grey, large arrows pointing right >> beside the article on the right hand side of your search page;
7. Put your curser on the arrows and the article headline should appear to the right of the arrows. Select the article. If that doesn't work - click on the arrows (different browsers work in different ways.)

Not guaranteed to work every time but is reasonably reliable.

[Greystache]

It sucks. He should tank it so we can pick him up for peanuts. :p

He ran a 12.7 in the beep test today which is pretty poor, maybe he is.

[azabob]

He ran a 12.7 in the beep test today which is pretty poor, maybe he is.

Apparently all beep test results have been average, speculation is due to the heat.

[w3design]

I agree with the aggression/mongrel call, I'm just not sure about Membrey. That height I find very hard to judge. I would have liked to see him get more of the ball up the ground.

I would see Jones and or Williams playing out at 50m, Cordy/Minson sitting in the F. pocket, and falling back into the square behind a fast leading Membery/Hogan or similar, running into the space in between.
I think half of the problem [ delivery aside] this year with our forward line was a total lack of a stay at home FF. They all kept getting sucked up the ground far to often.
Even when we got the ball in position to fire it in to the F50, there was either no one at home, or those who were were outnumbered by defenders while our forwards were up field gathering useless/non productive possessions.

[Mofra]

A minor point - the Tom Lee article in the Age today notes that a number of clubs have talked to him, we are not one of them.

[w3design]

I agree with the aggression/mongrel call, I'm just not sure about Membrey. That height I find very hard to judge. I would have liked to see him get more of the ball up the ground.

Sounds from what Shifter was saying yesterday [?] that Membrey is still growing. [ I know I did right up till 21/2]. If I recall correctly I think he said he was just on 190 now.
If I am right that would have him fall in between Mitch and Baz on size. And as I said earlier, height really is not a problem for our forward line.

In fact another real tall up there might force some one out or result in us getting to top heavy [ something that has been suggested we might be already].

[Throughandthrough]

Well it won't be Paul Marshall

He has announced he CBf playing afl and withdrew from the combine

[Greystache]

Well it won't be Paul Marshall

He has announced he CBf playing afl and withdrew from the combine

That's pretty direct, I like a man who can be honest with himself, nah it's too hard bugger it.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I don't think I've ever been as excited, intrigued, interested and worried about any other draft before as I am this year! I'm just so nervous about the club getting this right.

Menzel is an interesting prospect, could be a gun...

I am on tenterhooks. this is a huge time in the history of the Bulldogs. The future is here now, this week. Our lives will be dramatically affected by the clubs recruitment this week. It is the best of times and the worst of times.
How can we pin our future on the slim shoulders of a 17y.o.? Yet it appears we must. How can we hope he is the messiah? Yet we must. This draft must give us hope of a premiership or else we die, at least figuratively, and plausibly literally.
Yet this week could be the start of an exciting period with the recruitment of an elite player who could become a massive part of our history.
OMG knife edge stuff.