What needs to be the main focus this pre-season

[LostDoggy]

Having survived the beltings of the 2nd half of the season, Im interested to get some thoughts on what we need to be focusing on during pre-season.

We won more than our share of stoppages and contested footy, so was our poor results due to;
Giving the ball away so easily with poor skills that we were caught out of position so regularly that we were easy to score against?
A lack of defensive pressure from the mid-field?
Purely a fitness issue & not being able to execute the game plan for long periods due to not being fit enough?
A lack of spread away from the contest to open the game up and then have to move the ball sideways,
Lack of forward movement to create space & opportunities
No overlap running so the end result was that we were slow to move the ball.

I guess its a bit of all of the above, but geez, Im getting depressed trying to work out where we need to start looking for answers.:(

Anyone have any thoughts?

[Maddog37]

Lots of repeat sprint work and skills drills when fatigued.

[Mofra]

Quick ball movement would be nice.
Awaiting the replacement mantra for "crack in" with interest

[chef]

Forward structure, fitness and skills.

[Ghost Dog]

What Chef said. If we are going to keep Tutt and Grant, they'll have to learn to 'crack in' a bit more or can't see them being a part of the plan.

[Eastdog]

Skill level, Fitness. These are two areas that stand out for me and need a lot of work over the summer. We have to become a more competitive side next season because this season was awful.

[Ghost Dog]

Kick ins. We definitely need to work on that.

[Eastdog]

Kick ins. We definitely need to work on that.

Definitely. Also some of the kicking skills of some players needs a lot of work as well.

[bornadog]

Fitness to run out games. Skill levels, kicking and handballing, we have been atrocious, in fact the worst I have ever seen from a bulldogs team.

[Eastdog]

Fitness to run out games. Skill levels, kicking and handballing, we have been atrocious, in fact the worst I have ever seen from a bulldogs team.

We should use the bip test to see just how fit our players are.

[ledge]

Cracking in is fine but if everyones doing it who do you give it that's waiting to receive? Would like to see players separated as crack in ones and running receivers .

[Eastdog]

We need to have much more of a focus on scoring goals than possession footy. There needs to be a balance between the two.

[always right]

I recall when Wallace first came on board as coach there was an intensive focus on kicking skills in the pre-season. We very quickly became known for our efficient disposal that year.

It wouldn't hurt for McCartney to go down the same route with this group.....combined with an emphasis on fitness. No more second half capitulations next year please.

[always right]

We should use the bip test to see just how fit our players are.

Is this a shorter version of the beep test?

Running capacity is one thing but a beep test does not replicate the repeat efforts in a match environment where there is tackling and contests.

[Greystache]

We should use the bip test to see just how fit our players are.

Every club has used the beep test for the last 20 years.

We're using the evolution of the beep test, which is performed over 100m intervals rather than 20m. Ed Barlow destroyed everyone 2 years ago, he ran 3 more than Daniel Cross before they told him to stop.

[Ghost Dog]

Every club has used the beep test for the last 20 years.

We're using the evolution of the beep test, which is performed over 100m intervals rather than 20m. Ed Barlow destroyed everyone 2 years ago, he ran 3 more than Daniel Cross before they told him to stop.

I wish we had kept Barlow. No worse than Markovic or Austin. he did 'crack in' quite wel.
It was wierd that he scored so well in the beep test as he used to look gassed out on the field.

[always right]

I wish we had kept Barlow. No worse than Markovic or Austin. he did 'crack in' quite wel.
It was wierd that he scored so well in the beep test as he used to look gassed out on the field.

It used to depress me seeing Barlow playing out there. No matter how honest he was it symbolised to me how far we'd dropped. Then we dropped further this year.:o

[Eastdog]

Is this a shorter version of the beep test?

Running capacity is one thing but a beep test does not replicate the repeat efforts in a match environment where there is tackling and contests.

How could we in a pre season do this so they can get that match environment experience.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I wish we had kept Barlow. No worse than Markovic or Austin. he did 'crack in' quite wel.
It was wierd that he scored so well in the beep test as he used to look gassed out on the field.

Barlow was miles worse than both Markovic and Austin. Barlow couldn't catch!

[LongWait]

Next element of the game plan may be to concentrate on the spread from a contest/stoppage and the gut running to present. Get these issues fixed and our disposal efficiency will improve markedly.

At the moment there are few good options presenting once we win the contest. Better spread and better endurance will also help us to get the pill back if we lose the stoppage or contest. Unfortunately for us, young bodies need a few pre-seasons to get to the standard required to compete against seasoned AFL players.

[Ghost Dog]

Barlow was miles worse than both Markovic and Austin. Barlow couldn't catch!

Debatable.

[Ghost Dog]

It used to depress me seeing Barlow playing out there. No matter how honest he was it symbolised to me how far we'd dropped. Then we dropped further this year.:o

I used to laugh watching him :D So unco. Ekerish qualities.

A little off topic, but in relation to preparing for next season, what's going on with Willy?

[Eastdog]

I used to laugh watching him :D So unco. Ekerish qualities.

A little off topic, but in relation to preparing for next season, what's going on with Willy?

Not exactly sure what's going on with the Willy partnership. Haven't heard any news about what's going on with that alignment. If we don't align with them again next year will have to align with another VFL team I'd say as I don't think will get our own stand alone VFL team just yet.

[LostDoggy]

Next element of the game plan may be to concentrate on the spread from a contest/stoppage and the gut running to present. Get these issues fixed and our disposal efficiency will improve markedly.

At the moment there are few good options presenting once we win the contest. Better spread and better endurance will also help us to get the pill back if we lose the stoppage or contest. Unfortunately for us, young bodies need a few pre-seasons to get to the standard required to compete against seasoned AFL players.

This. :D

Our list is going to be flogged this pre-season. Will come back with bigger bodies and bigger tanks, better able to compete and better able to show what they've got.

[Ghost Dog]

This. :D

Our list is going to be flogged this pre-season. Will come back with bigger bodies and bigger tanks, better able to compete and better able to show what they've got.

Bright side of all this. We can get back on the track ASAP. How long do the players get off now? hope we can get the jump on the top 8 teams.

[Eastdog]

Bright side of all this. We can get back on the track ASAP. How long do the players get off now? hope we can get the jump on the top 8 teams.

The non finals teams will all start there pre season's early which is one positive. We hit the ground running earlier.

[AndrewP6]

Fitness to run out games. Skill levels, kicking and handballing, we have been atrocious, in fact the worst I have ever seen from a bulldogs team.

This for me too. And lots of it.

[jeemak]

Positioning, foot skills and repeat effort fitness.

I've been very impressed with some of our in close handball work this year. Particularly from our younger players, and especially Wallis.

As another poster stated, a concerted effort to improve foot skill can be beneficial and the example of '97's preseason is a good one.

Running all day is one thing, but being able to compete at high intensity is a completely different type of fitness and we need to improve drastically in that area.

Positioning is something that comes with experience, and every player in the league can get better at it irrespective of age and games played.

[Ghost Dog]

This is the first year in 4 seasons that Cooney will not req surgery. ( Hoooo-bloody-ray)
So hopefully we can figure out what to do with him.

[Eastdog]

Ill be looking forward to see Dale Morris back up and training with the team again.

[w3design]

Positioning, foot skills and repeat effort fitness.

I've been very impressed with some of our in close handball work this year. Particularly from our younger players, and especially Wallis.

As another poster stated, a concerted effort to improve foot skill can be beneficial and the example of '97's preseason is a good one.

Running all day is one thing, but being able to compete at high intensity is a completely different type of fitness and we need to improve drastically in that area.

Positioning is something that comes with experience, and every player in the league can get better at it irrespective of age and games played.

Agree with all this.
Should be a standing order that anyone who kicks backwards, or holds onto the ball with a mark or free kick until the umpire blows his whistle goes immediately to the bench.
Get on with the game, and play bl**dy football... not twaddley winks.

[jeemak]

Agree with all this.
Should be a standing order that anyone who kicks backwards, or holds onto the ball with a mark or free kick until the umpire blows his whistle goes immediately to the bench.
Get on with the game, and play bl**dy football... not twaddley winks.

That's not what I was getting at, but I understand where you're coming from and I'm also frustrated.

I think one of our best attributes in 2009 was our ability to know when to move the ball quickly and when not to. We saw in the prelim of that year what happens when moving the ball haphazardly can do to a team and its ability to score. Unfortunately we let ourselves down through getting the ball into the forward line too quickly without direction, and consequently we put ourselves under pressure from a defensive outlook as a result.

Good teams know when to move the ball quickly, and when to hold on to it. Only through having excellent footskills backed up by cool heads under pressure matched with positioning can you make the most of each situation.

We simply don't have the forward quality or structure right now to play the fast movement style of game. If we tried it we'd get slammed on the rebound as our players aren't fit enough to win the ball, and back up for second and third efforts defensively after butchering the forward movement.

If we tighten up our footskills, and as another poster said improve our spread our ball use will improve markedly, and we'll be able to pick and choose our moments.

[w3design]

I understand completely where you are coming from jeemak, but all season we held [or tried to] possession, only to invariably lose the pill to the opposition. If we are going to fluff it, I would prefer it occur in our forward line rather than the half back line where our butchering regularly occurred this season. We constantly gave the other side all the time in the world to set up their defensive structures while we tried [ usually totally ineptly] to play keepings off in our back half. 9 times out of 10 we butchered it without even getting the pill out of our own defence.
I agree our inside 50 delivery was usually appalling, but so was our bl**dy P farting about in the back half.
As I said if we are going to give up possession, better three kicks away from the others scoring zone, than right in the middle of it.

[stefoid]

Barlow was miles worse than both Markovic and Austin. Barlow couldn't catch!

He could lose a phenomenal amount of contests every game though.

[jeemak]

Thing is though, if we move it quickly and fluff it in our forward 50 all the defensive players from the opposition teams have midfielders and forwards ready to receive the ball after running back knowing full well they don't have to put pressure on the ball carrier.

That's why getting the balance right and choosing your moment to move forward is so important. It's why Collingwood in 2010 mastered the chip along the boundary line in a considered manner to attack. Through that method it allowed their midfielders and half forwards to set up for the press and stop the rebound.

We don't have the forward cattle to take advantage of quick or slow movement forward, and we don't have the kicking skills to move it quickly or slowly either. Confident players move the ball quickly, and confident players do that on the back of good skills. They also know how to pick out players in minimal space to hold on to the ball.

As our forwards develop we'll be able to use them moreso as bail out options after quick and haphazard ball movement, but they're not there yet. Until they get there, we need to learn how to hold on to the ball.

[jeemak]

He could lose a phenomenal amount of contests every game though.

Not to mention be the smallest 190cm player on the park. He was awesome at that.

I hate bashing ex-Bulldogs. He worked hard, but he didn't cut it.

[GVGjr]

1) To improve our fitness to the point where last quarter fade outs are minimal
2) To get a more accountable midfield
3) To get a more productive forward line

I guess this is the aim for most clubs but unless we can keep the scoreboard ticking over we won't kick enough goals to win enough games.

[Dazza]

Our spread from the contest is bloody awful. Needs to be fixed.

Fitness needs to be worked on.

Forward delivery needs work.

Anything other than cracking in really.

[Topdog]

skills, skills and more skills.

[DOG GOD]

Skills, pace, accountability ( especially from the midfield) and a bigger tank.

[w3design]

Thing is though, if we move it quickly and fluff it in our forward 50 all the defensive players from the opposition teams have midfielders and forwards ready to receive the ball after running back knowing full well they don't have to put pressure on the ball carrier.

That's why getting the balance right and choosing your moment to move forward is so important. It's why Collingwood in 2010 mastered the chip along the boundary line in a considered manner to attack. Through that method it allowed their midfielders and half forwards to set up for the press and stop the rebound.

We don't have the forward cattle to take advantage of quick or slow movement forward, and we don't have the kicking skills to move it quickly or slowly either. Confident players move the ball quickly, and confident players do that on the back of good skills. They also know how to pick out players in minimal space to hold on to the ball.

As our forwards develop we'll be able to use them moreso as bail out options after quick and haphazard ball movement, but they're not there yet. Until they get there, we need to learn how to hold on to the ball.

jeemak, I was not advocating the "bomb it long in hope" philosophy. That is not the only way to move the ball quickly. I had in mind more of a variant on or combination of the Dogs C 2009 play on run and carry, with the Geelong [premiership mode] perpetual motion models.
I would still prefer [ if we are going to turn the ball over], that it occur as far from the opponents goals as possible, rather than within their one kick range.
If you fart about in your backline, and turn the thing over with all your players off their man, an opposition score is virtually inevitable.
Yes Collingwood 2010 got away with the chipping around game. But that was due to the cattle at their disposal, rather than any innate value in the method. If we had Sidebottom, Thomas, Pendlebury and Swan I am sure we could get away with it too. But since we don't,
that style of chipping the pill about, proved a constant disaster for our team.

The system does not allow you to change the make up of your squad overnight. Therefore you need to adapt the way you play to the skill set inherent in the group at the time.
Bugger the standing around waggling your finger till the umpire forces you to rush a kick to a prepared opposition defence, or trying to play keepings off until you eventually stuff up a pass giving the other guys the key to the door on a silver platter.

Lets just take the bl**dy thing and go forward with it. The only thing that wins football games is getting the damn pill into your forward half and scoring. Masses of uncontested disposal stats in the back half will never ever win a match.

[BulldogBelle]

How about a game plan that reflects the way the club says it wants to play? All this talk about being a hard contested ball winning team, but in games we do everything we can to avoid contested footy. Our style hasn't changed for a number of years now. Chip around the back half, try to get the ball to a player on his own on the opposite half back flank or wing, run and carry, enter our forward 50 through the flanks......it's not bloody working!!! Us and Richmond play this exact style and guess what...neither made finals. If we want to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk, then bring the ball forward through the center square, enter the forward fifty through center half forward, get numbers to the contest, win the contested footy by weight of numbers, spread and deliver, then do it all again.

[AndrewP6]

How about a game plan that reflects the way the club says it wants to play? All this talk about being a hard contested ball winning team, but in games we do everything we can to avoid contested footy. Our style hasn't changed for a number of years now. Chip around the back half, try to get the ball to a player on his own on the opposite half back flank or wing, run and carry, enter our forward 50 through the flanks......it's not bloody working!!! Us and Richmond play this exact style and guess what...neither made finals. If we want to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk, then bring the ball forward through the center square, enter the forward fifty through center half forward, get numbers to the contest, win the contested footy by weight of numbers, spread and deliver, then do it all again.

There's one problem. We don't have a great (or even a very good) CHF. LJ is promising, but that's it.

[jeemak]

jeemak, I was not advocating the "bomb it long in hope" philosophy. That is not the only way to move the ball quickly. I had in mind more of a variant on or combination of the Dogs C 2009 play on run and carry, with the Geelong [premiership mode] perpetual motion models.
I would still prefer [ if we are going to turn the ball over], that it occur as far from the opponents goals as possible, rather than within their one kick range.
If you fart about in your backline, and turn the thing over with all your players off their man, an opposition score is virtually inevitable.
Yes Collingwood 2010 got away with the chipping around game. But that was due to the cattle at their disposal, rather than any innate value in the method. If we had Sidebottom, Thomas, Pendlebury and Swan I am sure we could get away with it too. But since we don't,
that style of chipping the pill about, proved a constant disaster for our team.

The system does not allow you to change the make up of your squad overnight. Therefore you need to adapt the way you play to the skill set inherent in the group at the time.
Bugger the standing around waggling your finger till the umpire forces you to rush a kick to a prepared opposition defence, or trying to play keepings off until you eventually stuff up a pass giving the other guys the key to the door on a silver platter.

Lets just take the bl**dy thing and go forward with it. The only thing that wins football games is getting the damn pill into your forward half and scoring. Masses of uncontested disposal stats in the back half will never ever win a match.

We agree on not bombing the ball, and I agree that it is preferable for turnovers to happen further away from our defensive goal rather than closer to them.

Where I disagree with you is the statement Collingwood played the boundary line on the basis of the cattle at their disposal. If anything, having a forward line containing Cloke, Daws and Brown would have been better served with ball being delivered quickly prior to numbers being pushed back. The reality is with Collingwood, was that they were continually being lambasted for attacking via the boundary in 2008-2010 however, it was only until their forward press was installed and played effectively that the reason for them attacking via the boundary was made obvious. They determined that they'd be able to put more pressure on the opposition defenders if they continuously rebounded the ball into their own forward line and applied continual pressure on the opposition defensive runners. They recruited and played players that could accomodate that style.

We can't change the squad at our disposal overnight, but we can start playing the way we want to play and draft players that can fit in to the model the coaching staff believes will take us forward. I'd prefer us play to a plan or goal that will ultimately be successful in a few years time, and recruit accordingly so it can be successful over time. Whilst I concede we need to play variants of a particular style due to player list contraints, we really need to determine a plan that is sustainable long term and recruit accordingly.

[BulldogBelle]

There's one problem. We don't have a great (or even a very good) CHF. LJ is promising, but that's it.

I mean through that part of the ground, not through an individual player. :)