Chris Dawes?

[bornadog]

Dees Open their Dawes (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dees-open-their-doors-to-dawes-20121011-27f3d.html)

MINDFUL that Carlton and its new coach, Mick Malthouse, are in the race to lure Collingwood forward Chris Dawes, Melbourne coach Mark Neeld is still hopeful his relationship with the disgruntled Magpie could help convince him to join the Demons.
Neeld coached Dawes in his first four years when he was an assistant at Collingwood, and the Demons have also used one of his former premiership teammates - assistant coach Leigh Brown - in pitches to sell the Melbourne vision to Dawes, who is fielding rival offers.
Melbourne has spoken to Dawes several times and expects a decision by the weekend. But the Demons are one of three clubs waiting to hear from the 24-year-old within the same timeframe, including Carlton and Malthouse, who was senior coach of the Pies until last season.

The Western Bulldogs - armed with a bounty of draft picks inside the top 50 courtesy of the Brian Lake trade - are the other interested party, and there was speculation on Wednesday that the Dogs had already struck a deal that would include first and second-round selections.

But the player's management has since hosed down suggestions a deal had been done for Dawes, who still has two years to run on his Collingwood contract but is unhappy that the club signed Quinten Lynch from West Coast, effectively to play in front of him.
Neeld said having a previous relationship with Dawes helped in this type of trade talks, but he was also acutely aware of how close Malthouse was to him. ''We used [our relationship with Dawes] for everything it was worth … Leigh Brown and I went around to see Dawesy straight away.''
Neeld said having someone at the club with a strong relationship with a recruiting target had worked for the Demons last year when it lured another key forward, former Brisbane Lion Mitch Clark.
''Having [assistant coach] Jade Rawlings on our coaching staff, who coached Mitch while he was in Brisbane, that was really important.
''We know what type of player [Dawes] is; we would really like to have him at the footy club. We will wait until the end of the weekend, and he may or may not be.''
Neeld has also had ''preliminary talks'' with Essendon key forward Scott Gumbleton, but said he had received no indication during his 30-minute conversation as to whether the 24-year-old would leave the Bombers, who have offered him a contract.
Neeld said he was confident there was enough talent in the club's crop of young players that the Demons could afford to bring in up to ''four to six experienced players'' if they could get deals done.
Melbourne has already signed Shannon Byrnes from Geelong and is after another key forward to play alongside Clark.

Neeld said the club would take both Dawes and Gumbleton if it could. ''They would be all right, I reckon, Clark, Gumbleton, Dawes, they'd all get a game.''

read on here (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dees-open-their-doors-to-dawes-20121011-27f3d.html)

The card we can use is you will be the main man and not competing with Clark and Gumbelton

[LostDoggy]

It appears that we are divided in support of recruiting Dawes, and thats fair enough given his short comings. I must admit I have also warmed to the chance of him coming over, but not paying overs. If 4 clubs are chasing him, its likely someone will do something desperate and stupid to get him & I dont want it to be us.
The discussions about Dawes have raised another issue, do we just need a stop gap with a big body to assist with the rebuild in the forward line? Surely we could find one in the lower leagues (VFL, SANFL, WAFL) that could do the job. I was even thinking Brad Miller when it was announced he was leaving Richmond. I know hes not very good, but he does have aggression and experience in playing that donkey work forward type role.

[LostDoggy]

The club needs a big player in the forward half with genuine pace and endurance who has the skills to mark, trap and dispose of the ball effectively. This isn't Dawes. We have to target a player in the draft and hope we get it right. After all, Hawthorn got it right with Franklin when many others wouldn't go there.

[LongWait]

@BulldogBanana : I guess Williams and/or Campbell could be the alternatives to Dawes as a stop gap.

If we don't land a key forward via the draft/free agency route we could build a forward line based primarily on smaller, more nimble goal kickers modelled on the Bulldogs forward line pre-Barry Hall. Problem with this approach is it didn't work well enough in big, pressure games.

[bornadog]

@BulldogBanana : I guess Williams and/or Campbell could be the alternatives to Dawes as a stop gap.

If we don't land a key forward via the draft/free agency route we could build a forward line based primarily on smaller, more nimble goal kickers modelled on the Bulldogs forward line pre-Barry Hall. Problem with this approach is it didn't work well enough in big, pressure games.

If we draft a young key forward, I wouldn't expect them to contribute, or impact a game till at least another 4 plus years. If we don't draft Dawes, I expect Jones, Cordy, Campbell to step up.

[Maddog37]

We need three gun players in the forward line and the rest only need to compete and break even. The players being guns do not have to be big players but the big players need to at least be able to break even to give the smaller gun players a fifty fifty chance.

Mooney was not a gun and Pods and THawk were mostly servicable. Stevie J, Chappy and gun rotating mids was a nice setup. Our setup with Johno, Aker etc was also very good with Mitch Hahn not being elite but super competitive.

We have Dahl who looks very good and beyond that our forwards are not overly creative. Jones, Cordy and maybe Roberts and Redpath could well be solid players in time but we need more natural creative mid size forwards.

Just a few random thoughts for everyone to opine on.

[WB4Life]

I agree - to me the answer to the Dawes question lies in the price paid.

Exactly!

[LongWait]

If we draft a young key forward, I wouldn't expect them to contribute, or impact a game till at least another 4 plus years. If we don't draft Dawes, I expect Jones, Cordy, Campbell to step up.

Agree. Rumors around we are also considering Gumbleton.

[LongWait]

We need three gun players in the forward line and the rest only need to compete and break even. The players being guns do not have to be big players but the big players need to at least be able to break even to give the smaller gun players a fifty fifty chance.

Mooney was not a gun and Pods and THawk were mostly servicable. Stevie J, Chappy and gun rotating mids was a nice setup. Our setup with Johno, Aker etc was also very good with Mitch Hahn not being elite but super competitive.

We have Dahl who looks very good and beyond that our forwards are not overly creative. Jones, Cordy and maybe Roberts and Redpath could well be solid players in time but we need more natural creative mid size forwards.

Just a few random thoughts for everyone to opine on.

Yes. In citing the Geelong forward line you've described what for me would be the ideal model for us (unless one of our kids becomes a dead set gun power forward.)

[LostDoggy]

@BulldogBanana : I guess Williams and/or Campbell could be the alternatives to Dawes as a stop gap.

If we don't land a key forward via the draft/free agency route we could build a forward line based primarily on smaller, more nimble goal kickers modelled on the Bulldogs forward line pre-Barry Hall. Problem with this approach is it didn't work well enough in big, pressure games.

If the talk is correct that we will be building the defence around Roughy, Talia along with Morris, Fletcher Roberts or Austin & it will free up Williams to play in the fwd line.
He looked ok there in the couple of games he played as a fwd, but as we know his durability is highly suspect.
In reality, can we bank on him being able to play a whole season without an injury?

Also, wouldnt mind picking up Ben Kennedy from Glenelg as one of these smaller forwards. Has played seniors with the bays this year, so is used to playing against bigger bodies, and could play seniors pretty quickly.

[Hotdog60]

We need three gun players in the forward line and the rest only need to compete and break even. The players being guns do not have to be big players but the big players need to at least be able to break even to give the smaller gun players a fifty fifty chance.

Mooney was not a gun and Pods and THawk were mostly servicable. Stevie J, Chappy and gun rotating mids was a nice setup. Our setup with Johno, Aker etc was also very good with Mitch Hahn not being elite but super competitive.

We have Dahl who looks very good and beyond that our forwards are not overly creative. Jones, Cordy and maybe Roberts and Redpath could well be solid players in time but we need more natural creative mid size forwards.

Just a few random thoughts for everyone to opine on.

Are we over looking Tory Dickson, he seems to have a good footy brain and with another preseason under his belt I would expect better return next year and he knows were the sticks are.

Jones could take another step if he can time his leaps better and there maybe also Panos and Cordy. So we still have options but if they can't cut the mustard next year is their time numbered.

[LostDoggy]

I think it's amusing how Melbourne are targeting pretty much everybody with no real system or logic to it. They are clearly looking for a shortcut almost bandaid solution to their troubles. We at least have stated that we will do a proper re-build, which may deliver some short term pain but I think will also deliver long term gain. I also think with the Dawes situation that many of us deep down would like him to choose us to validate in a certain way that the club is still an attractive place to want to play.

[always right]

I loved the look of Williams when he played forward this season. As always the question is around his ability to stay on the park.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I agree - to me the answer to the Dawes question lies in the price paid.

And for me our options for an equitable trade disappeared the moment we gave Hawthorn pick 27.
It's a moot point, but I think many who are against spending pick 21 on Dawes would be more amenable to it if we still had a further pick in the early part of round two.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Reports are if we miss Dawes we may go after Gumbleton.

I think I'd be happier with Gumbleton, because I dont want to pay the price for Dawes. I dont hate Dawes and would be happy to have him, but if it involves giving up pick 21 then I hate the deal.

[WB4Life]

I think it's amusing how Melbourne are targeting pretty much everybody with no real system or logic to it. They are clearly looking for a shortcut almost bandaid solution to their troubles. We at least have stated that we will do a proper re-build, which may deliver some short term pain but I think will also deliver long term gain. I also think with the Dawes situation that many of us deep down would like him to choose us to validate in a certain way that the club is still an attractive place to want to play.

gaining Viney and Hogan is a great step in the right direction for them...

[1eyedog]

FF solution: stop playing Jarrad Grant as a flanker, he still has the stickiest hands at the club.

Agree. I would play Grant out of the goal square and isolate him as much as possible. He is super quick. The problem is his second efforts if the dukes fail.

[Sedat]

I dont hate Dawes and would be happy to have him, but if it involves giving up pick 21 then I hate the deal.
I have a similar view with Dawes. I would actually like us to have a look at Mitch Brown from Geelong, who has requested a trade due to lack of opportunities - being behind Hawkins, JPod and Mooney in the pecking order would have been a tough nut to crack. He would cost far less (both draft picks and wage) and has more upside than a Dawes. I've liked what I've seen of him but regular VFL watchers could give a better insight to him.

[Mantis]

I think I'd be happier with Gumbleton, because I dont want to pay the price for Dawes. I dont hate Dawes and would be happy to have him, but if it involves giving up pick 21 then I hate the deal.

But what 'price' will Essendon put on Gumby's head?

I would have thought they would be after a reasonable pick for his services.... Admittedly it might be a little reduced as he is out of contract, but Essendon generally put a big price on their players.

[LostDoggy]

I have a similar view with Dawes. I would actually like us to have a look at Mitch Brown from Geelong, who has requested a trade due to lack of opportunities - being behind Hawkins, JPod and Mooney in the pecking order would have been a tough nut to crack. He would cost far less (both draft picks and wage) and has more upside than a Dawes. I've liked what I've seen of him but regular VFL watchers could give a better insight to him.

Dont mind that at all Sedat, looks like the sort of KPF option that I mentioned earlier. Wont cost us much & as long as he performs at the lower level would definately get an opportunity at senior level.

[Dancin' Douggy]

It appears Melbourne have offered Dawes himself a better deal than we have.
They also have a better pick to offer to Collingwood.

Appears likely he'll go to the Dees.

I won't be upset if that happens.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd prefer Gumby. At least with Scott, he has (had?) serious talent. He was mobile, quick, could leap, take a mark and a decent kick. He probably doesn't have the presence of Dawes and is more similar to Jones, but at the right price, I wouldn't be against getting him to the club.

As Mantis said, though, Essendon are notorious for demanding overs and I don't see how or why Gumbleton would be any different.


I have a similar view with Dawes. I would actually like us to have a look at Mitch Brown from Geelong, who has requested a trade due to lack of opportunities - being behind Hawkins, JPod and Mooney in the pecking order would have been a tough nut to crack. He would cost far less (both draft picks and wage) and has more upside than a Dawes. I've liked what I've seen of him but regular VFL watchers could give a better insight to him.

I think Brown is a very good VFL player, but struggles with the pace and intensity of AFL. Having said that, I would again prefer we trade for him at a much lower cost than over pay for Dawes.

Weren't we interested in Brown the year he was drafted?

[azabob]

I have a similar view with Dawes. I would actually like us to have a look at Mitch Brown from Geelong, who has requested a trade due to lack of opportunities - being behind Hawkins, JPod and Mooney in the pecking order would have been a tough nut to crack. He would cost far less (both draft picks and wage) and has more upside than a Dawes. I've liked what I've seen of him but regular VFL watchers could give a better insight to him.

Biggest issue with Brown is he is very injury prone, and hasn't been a key position player for very long due to a late growth spurt. He was on our list to draft in the year he was drafted.

Longer term option rather than an immediate one.

[azabob]

Weren't we interested in Brown the year he was drafted?

Yes.

[LostDoggy]

I'd prefer Gumby..

As Mantis said, though, Essendon are notorious for demanding overs and I don't see how or why Gumbleton would be any different.



Isn't Gumby uncontracted? And if Melbourne gets Dawes I would have thought we could just say wait for the PSD and get him then as GWS and GC won't bite. So with that threat looming, not sure how the Bombers would be overly difficult, also given he is good mates with their captain, you'd think they wouldn't be too hard to deal with.

Pick 47 or 41 should get it done, and assuming his medical checks out, I would be far happier with Gumby than Dawes. Between Williams and Gumby we may even get a full season..

[LostDoggy]

Aren't Essendon desparate to get rid of players to fit Goddard in?
If that's the case I wouldn't be asking much for Gumby.

[1eyedog]

@BulldogBanana : I guess Williams and/or Campbell could be the alternatives to Dawes as a stop gap.

If we don't land a key forward via the draft/free agency route we could build a forward line based primarily on smaller, more nimble goal kickers modelled on the Bulldogs forward line pre-Barry Hall. Problem with this approach is it didn't work well enough in big, pressure games.

Jones and Grant will be players in my opinion. I don't get the angst against Grant, sure he's lazy but he's quick, got smarts and can mark.
He needs to use his pace to apply more defensive pressure. Macca has spoken about this with Grant at length and is working on it.

We can certainly build a fowardline around these two and other tall forward options in Cordy and Roughead if required.
We have other small forwards who are quick, apply a high level of defensive pressure and know where the goals are.
These kids are so young, why is everyone expecting them to work miracles already?

I'm very optimistic about our own.

[Axe Man]

Isn't Gumby uncontracted? And if Melbourne gets Dawes I would have thought we could just say wait for the PSD and get him then as GWS and GC won't bite.

Neeld said yesterday that they would be happy to get both Dawes and Gumby.

[KT31]

Jones and Grant will be players in my opinion. I don't get the angst against Grant, sure he's lazy but he's quick, got smarts and can mark.
He needs to use his pace to apply more defensive pressure. Macca has spoken about this with Grant at length and is working on it.

We can certainly build a fowardline around these two and other tall forward options in Cordy and Roughead if required.
We have other small forwards who are quick, apply a high level of defensive pressure and know where the goals are.
These kids are so young, why is everyone expecting them to work miracles already?

I'm very optimistic about our own.

May just have answered your own querie.
Although I don't think he is lazy, more he has a laconic personlity.

[Sedat]

I think Brown is a very good VFL player, but struggles with the pace and intensity of AFL. Having said that, I would again prefer we trade for him at a much lower cost than over pay for Dawes.
He did have a ripping finish to the VFL season (both up forward and down back), which is when I really noticed him as a future player. Azabob's comment about being injury-prone is very valid, but if he's over his injuries would be worth a look for sure. Cats will struggle to hold onto everyone with Caddy and McIntosh coming into their squad, and potentially Rivers as well. I'd be happy with something like our pick 21 and Geelong's 2nd round pick (mid 30's) being swapped around for Brown.

[Ghost Dog]

It appears Melbourne have offered Dawes himself a better deal than we have.
They also have a better pick to offer to Collingwood.

Appears likely he'll go to the Dees.

I won't be upset if that happens.


Ghost Dog does a little dance.

Off to the silverspooners!

[azabob]

If it came down to Gumbleton V Dawes, I'd take Dawes.

What I'd pay for either is a different question. Second round pick for either is about right.

Dawes has performed ok, whereas Gumbleton is still a major unknown in terms of output at AFL level.

[LostDoggy]

If it came down to Gumbleton V Dawes, I'd take Dawes.

What I'd pay for either is a different question. Second round pick for either is about right.

Dawes has performed ok, whereas Gumbleton is still a major unknown in terms of output at AFL level.
I agree with you Azabob I would rather Dawes even though he should not have played the last final I read into it that has has a real strong character and dedictaion. Also read a bit about him having those qualities.
I think also it gets forgoton a bit that he is only 24.

[Eastdog]

The club needs a big player in the forward half with genuine pace and endurance who has the skills to mark, trap and dispose of the ball effectively. This isn't Dawes. We have to target a player in the draft and hope we get it right. After all, Hawthorn got it right with Franklin when many others wouldn't go there.

We were very close in drafting Buddy but didn't get him. It's history now but who knows how things might have turned out if we had Buddy in our side during the years we were challenging for a premiership. With Dawes I'm not to fussed if we don't pick him up and would much rather focus on the draft which looks very exciting this year.

[LostDoggy]

Apparently Dawes will be naming his preferred club today. My money is on Melbourne

[G-Mo77]

Apparently Dawes will be naming his preferred club today. My money is on Melbourne

Now I'm going to sit by the computer for the rest of the afternoon HobDog. :cool:


I'm all in on Melbourne as well.

[always right]

We were very close in drafting Buddy but didn't get him. It's history now but who knows how things might have turned out if we had Buddy in our side during the years we were challenging for a premiership. With Dawes I'm not to fussed if we don't pick him up and would much rather focus on the draft which looks very exciting this year.

I wasn't aware of this. Haven't read anywhere that we had Buddy on our hitlist....just knew that we rated Griffen No 1 that year.

[Eastdog]

I wasn't aware of this. Haven't read anywhere that we had Buddy on our hitlist....just knew that we rated Griffen No 1 that year.

I'm not sure exactly where I heard it from but apparently we had the opportunity to pick up Franklin in the draft.

[SlimPickens]

I wasn't aware of this. Haven't read anywhere that we had Buddy on our hitlist....just knew that we rated Griffen No 1 that year.

Agree reasonably sure Scott Clayton was quoted to say if we had the number 1 pick that year he still would have gone Griffen.

[G-Mo77]

I'm not sure exactly where I heard it from but apparently we had the opportunity to pick up Franklin in the draft.

Yeah we did and passed on him. It may have been spin but they said they would have taken Griff at #1 so according to what's been said in the media Franklin wasn't considered ahead of Griffen.

[WB4Life]

Apparently Dawes will be naming his preferred club today. My money is on Melbourne

Heard this too, Melbourne get Dawes and Ray, Collingwood get picks, St Kilda Martin and picks... of course still rumour mill stuff

[LostDoggy]

Now I'm going to sit by the computer for the rest of the afternoon HobDog. :cool:


I'm all in on Melbourne as well.

HaHa! Well he's on the west coast of the US (currently almost 10pm) and they said he'd decide tonight.

[always right]

I'm not sure exactly where I heard it from but apparently we had the opportunity to pick up Franklin in the draft.

Yes we did...if we hadn't selected Griffen. Considering we took Williams at 6 straight after Hawthorn took Buddy at 5...then technically yes, we were very close to drafting Buddy I guess.

[jazzadogs]

Emma Quayle has just tweeted that Dawes has chosen Melbourne.

Not sure whether to breathe a sigh of relief or be disappointed.

EDIT: also confirmed by his manager Ben Niall on Trade Radio.

[bornadog]

I'm not sure exactly where I heard it from but apparently we had the opportunity to pick up Franklin in the draft.

Eastdog, you can't say we were close, we chose to pick Griffen, Richmond chose to pick Deledio and Tambling and even Hawthorn chose Roughy all before Franklin

[bornadog]

Dawes wants to be a Demon - OFFICIAL

[azabob]

Wow- these fifteen pages of posts haven't been a waste of time! :D

[G-Mo77]

Wow- these fifteen pages of posts haven't been a waste of time! :D

Do we now make a Gumbleton thread?

[BulldogBelle]

Dawes wants to be a Demon - OFFICIAL

Now I'm angry the other-way, what's so wrong about going to us??

Just kidding.

[bornadog]

Do we now make a Gumbleton thread?

you can start one:D

[G-Mo77]

you can start one:D

I started to warm on Dawes I'll never warm on Gumby. We already have Mr. Glass, we don't need another.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120511213537/villains/images/f/f3/Elijah_Price.jpg

[LostDoggy]

Maybe we dodged a bullet on that one. The original mantra by the coach was to stick to draftees or young players who had been in the system for a year or two. All of a sudden we were chasing players who cant get a game with their own clubs.

[DragzLS1]

Yay!! Now we can concentrate on drafting!! Unless we all of a sudden want to pick up Kosi now....... :p that is a jk people.. A sick 1 at that..

[bornadog]

Maybe we dodged a bullet on that one. The original mantra by the coach was to stick to draftees or young players who had been in the system for a year or two. All of a sudden we were chasing players who cant get a game with their own clubs.

Now we know our position with Collingwood, we may now try and get a couple of those one to two year players like Koby Stevens.

Personally, I am happy to draft 6 youngsters in the top 50.

[always right]

Now I'm angry the other-way, what's so wrong about going to us??

Just kidding.

I actually thought the same thing. We should be offended that he chose Melbourne over our club.

[bornadog]

Collingwood may end up with picks 17, 18 and 20 as their first rounders. Not bad for a prelim club.

[Hotdog60]

Hold on to your hats, Collingwood maybe talking hardball and may want more than pick 20.

[bornadog]

Hold on to your hats, Collingwood maybe talking hardball and may want more than pick 20.

Geoff Walsh adamant Dawes to Melbourne is far from a done deal.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Nobody is happier (or more relieved?) than I.

:D

[BulldogBelle]

Now that's a club that knows how to extract absolute-maximum possible and conceivable value from a trade deal. Wish we were that ruthless with Lake and pick 27!

[LostDoggy]

Nobody at Melbourne will know each other on day one of pre-season

[bornadog]

Nobody at Melbourne will know each other on day one of pre-season

They are looking desperate

[The Bulldogs Bite]

They are looking desperate

Apparently Dudourne are looking at Pedersen, too.

Talk about throwing away draft picks and being ridiculously desperate for short term improvement.

[BulldogBelle]

Aren't they looking at bringing in Farren Ray too?

[DOG GOD]

Apparently Dudourne are looking at Pedersen, too.

Talk about throwing away draft picks and being ridiculously desperate for short term improvement.

This has Brisbane from a few years ago written all over it...yep, desperate for results.

[bornadog]

Aren't they looking at bringing in Farren Ray too?

They were at one stage, but haven't heard anything for a few days.

[WBFC4FFC]

Great! 3 pick in the first Round! Use them wisely Bullies!

No way was Dawes worth a First Round pick!

[Eastdog]

Like I said in a previous post not disappointed we didn't get Chris Dawes. It is better for us I reckon and we hold on to our draft picks. I don't think Gumbleton as far as I know has been connected to us.

[DOG GOD]

I'm breathing a sign of relief for now, but what if pies don't like what dees are offering? Would he be a chance to reconsider and nominate us?

[Axe Man]

I don't think Gumbleton as far as I know has been connected to us.

Yes he has. Doesn't mean it's true but there have been reports that we would consider him if we didn't get Dawes.

[1eyedog]

Like I said in a previous post not disappointed we didn't get Chris Dawes. It is better for us I reckon and we hold on to our draft picks. I don't think Gumbleton as far as I know has been connected to us.

There were rumours...

http://www.aflfeeds.com/article/rumour_mill_bulldogs_show_interest_in_gumbleton

[Eastdog]

Yes he has. Doesn't mean it's true but there have been reports that we would consider him if we didn't get Dawes.

Thanks for clearing that up. Gumbleton is a risky one. It could go either way there.

[Doc26]

Not too bothered about missing out on Dawes, more struggling coming to terms with us looking about as attractive a proposition as it would be to make a move to Alberton at this time. Really to Melbourne ? Of all places, I'm confused :confused:.

[Remi Moses]

It would be his relationship with Leigh Brown and Neeld.
Derek Hine and Matt Rendell must think it's a deep draft( very good operators)
Is Mark Neeld doing a "Vossy"?

[chef]

I feel kind of rejected, but knows it's for the best.

Hopefully that's it for us in trade week, we now focus on the draft and look at picking up Toy or Stevens in the PSD.

[azabob]

I feel kind of rejected, but knows it's for the best.

Hopefully that's it for us in trade week, we now focus on the draft and look at picking up Toy or Stevens in the PSD.

Agree chef, not sure on Toy at all. Would picking up Stevens be more of the same?

[Eastdog]

Agree chef, not sure on Toy at all. Would picking up Stevens be more of the same?

Toy is a bit of a concern with his heart problem as we were pretty keen on him. Being quiet in the trade period is not a bad thing at all.

[chef]

Agree chef, not sure on Toy at all. Would picking up Stevens be more of the same?

Apparently there is one club looking to pick him up and use him as a burst player out of the back line. Not sure if it is us, I wouldn't be against it if we can get him for nothing.

Not sure on Stevens either, but he seems like a Macca type and we apparently into him.

[Mantis]

Not too bothered about missing out on Dawes, more struggling coming to terms with us looking about as attractive a proposition as it would be to make a move to Alberton at this time. Really to Melbourne ? Of all places, I'm confused :confused:.

Reports I hear are that Melbourne are splashing the cash trying to lure players to their club.

[Twodogs]

Hold on to your hats, Collingwood maybe talking hardball and may want more than pick 20.


Geoff Walsh adamant Dawes to Melbourne is far from a done deal.


Now that's a club that knows how to extract absolute-maximum possible and conceivable value from a trade deal. Wish we were that ruthless with Lake and pick 27!


They do it well, dont they? The old dog and pony show. Let the dog see just enough to get interested, wave it in front of face and under his nose until he is desperate fdor it then change the asking price just a little until you've sold them something they dont really want for a price that looks silly a few days later.

I wish our recruiting guys were a bit more like that. Still Lake will have a huge falling out with Clarkson halfway through his fiorst season there and spend the next year and a half just marking time.

[Remi Moses]

Toy is a bit of a concern with his heart problem as we were pretty keen on him. Being quiet in the trade period is not a bad thing at all.

The problem is as a Forward you need to be able to chase and pressure.
Unfortunately the kids health problem effects his stamina.
Feel for him

[azabob]

The problem is as a Forward you need to be able to chase and pressure.
Unfortunately the kids health problem effects his stamina.
Feel for him

Not that it matters, but isn't Toy more of a defender?

[KT31]

So in summery so far......
We lose Lake, miss on Martin, miss on Dawes, chase a player with a bad ticker and when all fails have a crack at a bloke with a bad back.
Looking good for 2013.

[jeemak]

So in summery so far......
We lose Lake, miss on Martin, miss on Dawes, chase a player with a bad ticker and when all fails have a crack at a bloke with a bad back.
Looking good for 2013.

Pretty pessimistic outlook on the period to this point, but without context added it's pretty hard to argue with your assessment.

The way I look at it is:

- Saw the writing on the wall with Lake, got what we most reasonably could expect to give us an opportunity to make plays for available players throughout the remainder of the trade period

- Not prepared to match pick two with pick five and six to secure Martin

- Either offered non-satisfactory terms or lacked relationship with Dawes to meet his needs, hence missing out

- Follow medical advice on Toy, taking into account if it was a risk for him to be playing AFL football he'd retire

- Put feelers out for a clearly talented, yet injury prone tall forward to potentially fill a gap we desperately need filled


Not saying my way is better than your way of looking at it. You certainly gain full marks for efficiency.

[Remi Moses]

So in summery so far......
We lose Lake, miss on Martin, miss on Dawes, chase a player with a bad ticker and when all fails have a crack at a bloke with a bad back.
Looking good for 2013.

Just a couple of points.
We missed Martin because GC had draft leveridge on us( if we'd given 5 and 6 away there'd be hell to pay
A 31 y/o who wants a flag, and to be honest he'd have sulked all next season.
Chris Dawes has a connection to Neeld and Brown, so you'd assume that would be a factor.
Would you give up 21 for a guy who has been replaced by a 30y/o?
I hope and prey we don't pick up fringe players from other clubs.

[w3design]

Just a couple of points.
We missed Martin because GC had draft leveridge on us( if we'd given 5 and 6 away there'd be hell to pay
A 31 y/o who wants a flag, and to be honest he'd have sulked all next season.
Chris Dawes has a connection to Neeld and Brown, so you'd assume that would be a factor.
Would you give up 21 for a guy who has been replaced by a 30y/o?
I hope and prey we don't pick up fringe players from other clubs.

Plus growing up as a kid Dawes was a Dees supporter .
I know if i played football and had a chance to play for the club i followed as kid it's a no brainer .

Can anyone update Can Redpath hold down full forward in the coming years haven't seen him play at all . Jmac at the last inside the kennel really rated him and wants him to get a full preseason into him because coming late last year in the rookie draft and coming off an injury couldn't see his full output.

The only thing Jmac said was he needed to be more angry on the field but said
Marking and kicking were both good .

[GVGjr]

While I can understand our interest in Dawes and I was somewhat supportive of us having a look at him I'm not disappointed in him nominating Melbourne as his preferred destination.

The problem of having Dawes in the forward line for us would have been in also making room for Jones, Cordy and Grant. I think we already have Dickson, Dahlhaus and Murphy locked in as forwards and how we cover the 2nd ruck spot if Roughead is to be used as a defender is the tricky one for us.
If it was to be Dawes then it certainly would have squeezed out Cordy. I'm still not convinced on Cordys value for us but he needs to the opportunity of playing as a forward and having some runs in the ruck.

Dawes would have provided us a better structure but given we are trying to develop some of the guys already on the list I'm more than OK at sticking with that.

[LostDoggy]

Might not be Dawes but I think they are after a forward. I think they might of given up on Jones, Grant and Cordy all making it.

[Templeton31]

To me a Dawes-like individual just helps with development of those young key forwards, even if the Dawes-like player isn't there when we win the flag. Think Glenn Coleman in Chris Grants early years - every body remembers Chris kicking 50 goals in his first year but in those early years he wasn't the lead up main man at CHF - Coleman was. Coleman wasn't actually that good but it was brilliant for team and grants development.

Now to me Dawes could play that role. He is built like that. We would have to pay overs for him so not so bad to miss out but who else could do that role while cordy, jones et al develop? gumbleton maybe? But is he that sort of fwd? I don't know. I do know he gets injured. I definitely think Hansen couldn't do it. Tommy Williams showed a glimpse that he could do it in a couple of games but it appears he's injured again. Anyone else out there to fill the Glenn Coleman role?

[JohnGentStand]

Love the Galaxy references as I was thinking along those lines myself re: Dawes. In all honesty, Jones or Williams have both been in the system long enough for us to expect some return in this role. If they are not up to it next season their future at the dogs should be short. Still, I am happy to give them a crack and go to the draft for talent then pay overs for Dawes ( anything under pick 30 is overs IMHO ) or consider the Gumby.

[Prince Imperial]

To me a Dawes-like individual just helps with development of those young key forwards, even if the Dawes-like player isn't there when we win the flag. Think Glenn Coleman in Chris Grants early years - every body remembers Chris kicking 50 goals in his first year but in those early years he wasn't the lead up main man at CHF - Coleman was. Coleman wasn't actually that good but it was brilliant for team and grants development.

Now to me Dawes could play that role. He is built like that. We would have to pay overs for him so not so bad to miss out but who else could do that role while cordy, jones et al develop? gumbleton maybe? But is he that sort of fwd? I don't know. I do know he gets injured. I definitely think Hansen couldn't do it. Tommy Williams showed a glimpse that he could do it in a couple of games but it appears he's injured again. Anyone else out there to fill the Glenn Coleman role?

Really good post. I doubt there is anyone else. Though he wasn't Carey, I thought Coleman gave us three years of terrific service. Played as a high CHF, he didn't kick a lot of goals but averaged around 18 disposals and seven marks a game with us. We'd kill for that now.

[stefoid]

Dawes is a quick, tall body to stick in the forward line to provide a physical contest and some defensive pressure (for a big man). Take the odd mark, kick the odd goal. I dont think anyone would have bigger expectations of him than that.

Someone on BF made a good point. Tommy Williams could do the same.

Yes, injury concerns. But if we pick up Gumbleton for a 3rd rounder, I think between the two of them we should be able to get 22 games?

[azabob]

Someone on BF made a good point. Tommy Williams could do the same.



Last time I checked Williams last few games he played up forward, so not sure how this can be a new idea? :confused:

[Topdog]

I dont think anyone would have bigger expectations of him than that.


For the rumoured picks being given up for him I'd expect a heck of a lot more than that.

[Mofra]

Dawes is a quick, tall body to stick in the forward line to provide a physical contest and some defensive pressure (for a big man). Take the odd mark, kick the odd goal. I dont think anyone would have bigger expectations of him than that.

Someone on BF made a good point. Tommy Williams could do the same.
No tall on our list hits the pack as hard as Dawes. Nobody.

[stefoid]

Last time I checked Williams last few games he played up forward, so not sure how this can be a new idea? :confused:

Exactly, so why is it being overlooked.

[GVGjr]

Exactly, so why is it being overlooked.


With Lake gone is Williams more likely to play in the back line?

[LostDoggy]

With Lake gone is Williams more likely to play in the back line?

If he can get on the park. I wouldn't play him at chf cos the extra running and presenting will see him injured again.

[Dry Rot]

So glad Dawes is going to the Dees. And it appears that Gumbleton is homesick for WA.

We just might escape doing something silly.

[GVGjr]

If he can get on the park. I wouldn't play him at chf cos the extra running and presenting will see him injured again.

I'm not sure the injuries he gets are due to running. He's always been a good running player.

[SlimPickens]

I'm not sure the injuries he gets are due to running. He's always been a good running player.

Would have thought chasing the better forwards in the game would be plenty of running also.

[LostDoggy]

I'm not sure the injuries he gets are due to running. He's always been a good running player.

No idea but I thought if you have foot issues it wouldn't help.
I also think the running from chb different to the running at chf.

[bornadog]

With Lake gone is Williams more likely to play in the back line?

I hope he does play at CHB, I think its his best position.

[GVGjr]

I hope he does play at CHB, I think its his best position.
I'm tending to lean that way as well but I thought he was a good option up forward and well worth the trial.

With Lake gone though I think it's probably more important to have Williams in the CHB position. I hope he can avoid any injuries next season.

[LostDoggy]

I would prefer to see Williams in the forward line because if he makes a mistake (which he often does) when the ball is coming in, it wont result in an opposition goal.

Sorry, I have no confidence with Tom in defence. He looks uncomfortable back there and lack confidence ... probably because he is not a natural footballer.

[1eyedog]

If he can get on the park. I wouldn't play him at chf cos the extra running and presenting will see him injured again.

oh, so all the running after a presenting CHF won't present the same scenario? GPS data suggests you run just as much at CHB. I trust you were joking when you said the MC feel that Jones won't make it.

If Tom looks uncomfortable in a particular position because he is not a not a naturalfootballer Tom will look uncomfortable everywhere. Playing him forward with any expectation other than to make contests asking too much. For mine he has shown he can compete at CHB. He has beaten both Buddy and N Riewoldt down there, he needs continuity. With Lake gone we need players with game time down there and Tom is our next experienced key back.

[AndrewP6]

oh, so all the running after a presenting CHF won't present the same scenario? GPS data suggests you run just as much at CHB. I trust you were joking when you said the MC feel that Jones won't make it.


In fairness, Chops did say that he felt the MC thought not all of Jones, Grant and Cordy would make it. I'm not sold on Grant personally, reckon he's had time to show his wares.

[F'scary]

In fairness, Chops did say that he felt the MC thought not all of Jones, Grant and Cordy would make it. I'm not sold on Grant personally, reckon he's had time to show his wares.

2013 is the last chance for all three.

[Mantis]

2013 is the last chance for all three.

Cordy signed a 3 year contract during this year so he isn't going anywhere.

[Desipura]

What is/was the dirence between Dawes and Brad Miller?
Miller had more to offer in Pia.
I think they have similar limited abilities.

[stefoid]

With Lake gone is Williams more likely to play in the back line?

The club is making "Roughead is Lakes replacement" and "play Talia and Fletcher" noises, so maybe not.

[Remi Moses]

According to Huchy( grain of salt) Dawes is going to get 400 odd a year!
I know his contracted, but perhaps The Dees are ripping up his Contract!

[Topdog]

What is/was the dirence between Dawes and Brad Miller?
Miller had more to offer in Pia.
I think they have similar limited abilities.

One costs pick 20, the other a packet of chips.

[1eyedog]

2013 is the last chance for all three.

Why do you say that? You don't put the time we have into KPP and offload them before their apprenticeship is finished. I would give Jones at least two more years. Cordy just got to the club for gods sake!

[KT31]

Why do you say that? You don't put the time we have into KPP and offload them before their apprenticeship is finished. I would give Jones at least two more years. Cordy just got to the club for gods sake!

Not agreeing with F'scary but just pointing out Cordy and Jones were both recruited the same year, 2008, with Grant only a season prior.

[Mofra]

^ 5 years to give people an idea of timeframe - any KPP we draft this year will only just be pushing for best 22 status in 2017.

[F'scary]

Why do you say that? You don't put the time we have into KPP and offload them before their apprenticeship is finished. I would give Jones at least two more years. Cordy just got to the club for gods sake!


Not agreeing with F'scary but just pointing out Cordy and Jones were both recruited the same year, 2008, with Grant only a season prior.

I will modify my position. I was incorrect in generalising for 3 players at once.

Grant: last chance in 2013.
Cordy: 2 more years.
Jones: 2 more years.

[G-Mo77]

Not agreeing with F'scary but just pointing out Cordy and Jones were both recruited the same year, 2008, with Grant only a season prior.

Cordy has been here the same amount of time as Jones but lets not forget he's was basically missing for 2 of those years. He's roughly 2 years into his development.

[Desipura]

I will modify my position. I was incorrect in generalising for 3 players at once.

Grant: last chance in 2013.
Cordy: 2 more years.
Jones: 2 more years.

Computer malfunction?

[1eyedog]

Not agreeing with F'scary but just pointing out Cordy and Jones were both recruited the same year, 2008, with Grant only a season prior.
Yes agreed. I should have said that while Cordy is a year older Jones is a full season in front of him.

^ 5 years to give people an idea of timeframe - any KPP we draft this year will only just be pushing for best 22 status in 2017.
yep, we want to see improvement from Jones, which shouldn't be expecting too much given his output in 2012.

Cordy has been here the same amount of time as Jones but lets not forget he's was basically missing for 2 of those years. He's roughly 2 years into his development.
This.

Computer malfunction?
Reboot in order

[F'scary]

Computer malfunction?

The Lake deal has created some confusion in my database as to whether in your system higher draft picks are better than lower draft picks.

[bornadog]

Dogs still hopeful of snaring Dawes: From the HUN


CHRIS Dawes is headed for a hefty pay rise as Melbourne remains in pole position to secure his services.


The Herald Sun understands the Collingwood key forward will almost double his pay at any new club in an enormous sweetener to being squeezed out by arriving West Coast Eagle Quentin Lynch.

It is believed Dawes was paid about $280,000 this year at the Magpies - not far above the league average.

But his market value has soared since he announced his wish to be traded, with Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs jostling for the 24-year-old's services and pushing up his price.

Industry sources yesterday confirmed Melbourne, Dawes' club of choice, is prepared to pay him in the region of $500,000 a season.

The Bulldogs refused to comment yesterday, but it is believed they have not given up all hope of striking a deal for Dawes and met with the Magpies yesterday.

The Dogs may have more picks to throw Collingwood's way, with room to move on finances after Brian Lake's departure.

But a move to the Dogs appears a long shot given players invaribly get to their preferred club.

Dawes still has two years to run on a contract signed at Collingwood after last year's Grand Final, but will move on a long-term upgraded deal without finacial contribution from the Pies.

On the surface, it seems bizarre he would be rewarded with a pay hike coming off a poor season, but big men in the right place at the right time can cash in.

It is also difficult to begrudge Dawes given he stayed at Collingwood for "unders" due to salary cap pressure and loyalty.

Last season he knocked back significantly bigger offers, potentially in the $500,000 range, to stay for less and vie for a premiership.

Despite the Pies talking to the Dogs yesterday, there was little movement on the Dawes' issue from Melbourne's end.

It may now depend on the compensation the Demons receive for losing free agent Brent Moloney, which will not be known until Friday.

The Dees have put pick No.20 on the table for Dawes, but may come in late with another pick down the order to get the deal done

[Bulldog Revolution]

Dawes is already on good money at pies and that is part of why they are trading him

[Desipura]

Dawes is already on good money at pies and that is part of why they are trading him
No he is not, he is on $280k a year

[EasternWest]

No he is not, he is on $280k a year

I'd hate to be on poor money like that ;).

[Desipura]

I'd hate to be on poor money like that ;).
I know what you mean, in footy terms its above average wage. Being a kpp, he can get about $500k (he is not worth that however supply demand comes into it)

[DragzLS1]

Dawes would be around about $350k per year at the smaller clubs needed a bigger body up forward.. Still, I hope we dont throw any more at him as I think Pick 21 is more then enough and am not willing to give him $500k per year.. I wouldnt mind Dawes but think he is after way too much.. After 2 years at Melbourne he will most likely want to come to us anyway when we are on the rise and they are still bottom 4...

[Mofra]

After 2 years at Melbourne he will most likely want to come to us anyway when we are on teh rise and tehy are still bottom 4..
Melbourne will bounce back up the ladder before us - they are collecting senior players whilst we pin our hopes on the draft which is always a much longer process (if the process works at all).

[whythelongface]

Dawes would be around about $350k per year at the smaller clubs needed a bigger body up forward.. Still, I hope we dont throw any more at him as I think Pick 21 is more then enough and am not willing to give him $500k per year.. I wouldnt mind Dawes but think he is after way too much.. After 2 years at Melbourne he will most likely want to come to us anyway when we are on the rise and they are still bottom 4...

Haven't the Dees offered pick 20 and the Pies have not accepted as they want more (maybe another pick). Thus we will require more than pick 21. We should just walk away from trading for Dawes.

[Remi Moses]

Great work if you can get it.
Has a shocking season, yet gets a pay rise!
Nearly 500 per year! Staggering

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Melbourne will bounce back up the ladder before us - they are collecting senior players whilst we pin our hopes on the draft which is always a much longer process (if the process works at all).
It remains to be seen if Melbourne bounce back quicker than we do in adopting this approach. I would prefer our approach even if success might be a little longer coming.
You would imagine that the sort of money Dawes is going to get at Melbourne as has been stated would probably see him getting more than a Boyd or Griffen, which is unrealistic.

[bornadog]

It remains to be seen if Melbourne bounce back quicker than we do in adopting this approach. I would prefer our approach even if success might be a little longer coming.
You would imagine that the sort of money Dawes is going to get at Melbourne as has been stated would probably see him getting more than a Boyd or Griffen, which is unrealistic.

Why is everyone so concerned about what players are on?

I think good on Melbourne.

They tried the path of getting many early draft picks and getting rid of senior players and that didn't work. Now they want some success after not playing finals for 10 years. Who can blame them.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Why is everyone so concerned about what players are on?

I think good on Melbourne.

They tried the path of getting many early draft picks and getting rid of senior players and that didn't work. Now they want some success after not playing finals for 10 years. Who can blame them.

It finally comes down to whether Melbourne has the right coach and administration in place. I still believe our future looks brighter.

[DragzLS1]

Think Melbourne might bounce up the ladder but only for 1-2 seasons then drop short.. As for our approach may see us up there for a few more years.. :) hopefully

[ledge]

Pies got Picks 20 and 45, demons got Dawes and pick 58

[F'scary]

Pies got Picks 20 and 45, demons got Dawes and pick 58

This must mean that Dawes is a superior warrior to Lake.

[Mofra]

This must mean that Dawes is a superior warrior to Lake.
24 yo vs 31 yo

[F'scary]

24 yo vs 31 yo

2 x All Australian coming off good year vs out-of-favour whipping boy who never established his position in the first 18.

And who has been replaced by 30 yo Eagle.

[GVGjr]

I believe it's a done deal to Melbourne so I suppose we have a good look at Gumbleton

[1eyedog]

2 x All Australian coming off good year vs out-of-favour whipping boy who never established his position in the first 18.

And who has been replaced by 30 yo Eagle.

I think it's got more to do with Lake walking next season than anything else.

[F'scary]

I think it's got more to do with Lake walking next season than anything else.

I support your statement.

[w3design]

No he is not, he is on $280k a year

By any reasonable measure, that is way over the odds for potatoes.

[ratsmac]

Phew, Dawes goes to the Demons, my membership stays in tact next year then:eek::eek:

[Dancin' Douggy]

PHEEEEEEW!
We can put that one to bed!

[Desipura]

Well done dogs on pushing his price higher. This might be the best deal we have ever not done. ;)

[The Coon Dog]

Well done dogs on pushing his price higher. This might be the best deal we have ever not done. ;)

This made me chuckle!

[Desipura]

This made me chuckle!

Whatever we pick up with pick 21 is all uphill from here!

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Well done dogs on pushing his price higher. This might be the best deal we have ever not done. ;)

there were reports we offered him a hefty deal which he turned his back on to go to Melbourne. Hope it was just to bump the price :cool:

[LostDoggy]

Well done dogs on pushing his price higher. This might be the best deal we have ever not done. ;)

Like it!

I'm now actually pretty happy that we didn't part with 21 for Dawes.

[G-Mo77]

Well done dogs on pushing his price higher. This might be the best deal we have ever not done. ;)

Keep the bastards honest. :)

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Big relief.

[G-Mo77]

Big relief.

It's not just a relief that we've kept #21 but the $500K spent on him would have hurt even more.

[Ozza]

Disappointing that Collingwood have got pick 20.

The Pies are less likely to pick the wrong player at 20 than Melbourne are.....and we have the next pick!

[1eyedog]

Whatever we pick up with pick 21 is all uphill from here!

Gumbleton?

[Remi Moses]

Gumbleton?

Definite no to Gumbleton at 21!
Gee players become Wayne Carey like at this time of the year.
If you get Gumbleton I wouldn't be paying under 40 for him.
Gotta love our game when you can underperform markedly and get a pay rise the next year.
Massive win for the pies, and frightening considering they were going to give up pick 13 for Dawes!!

[always right]

Definite no to Gumbleton at 21!
Gee players become Wayne Carey like at this time of the year.
If you get Gumbleton I wouldn't be paying under 40 for him.
Gotta love our game when you can underperform markedly and get a pay rise the next year.
Massive win for the pies, and frightening considering they were going to give up pick 13 for Dawes!!

Who was going to give up pick 13 for Dawes?

[Mantis]

It's not just a relief that we've kept #21 but the $500K spent on him would have hurt even more.

Is that what we offered or what Melb are paying?

[bornadog]

Is that what we offered or what Melb are paying?

Report in paper says Melbourne paying $2 million over 4 years. link (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dawes-now-a-2-million-demon-20121016-27pmn.html)

[Mantis]

Report in paper says Melbourne paying $2 million over 4 years.

I get that.... I just never heard our name mentioned with that figure.

[bornadog]

I get that.... I just never heard our name mentioned with that figure.

Yeah, not sure what we offered.

[Topdog]

I think it's safe to assume we were in that ballpark. If we weren't his decision would have been made a lot more quickly

[1eyedog]

Who was going to give up pick 13 for Dawes?

Melbourne but they used it on Hogan

[G-Mo77]

Is that what we offered or what Melb are paying?

If we were to get him we'd have to pay that much I'd imagine. Maybe we helped jack the price up for Dawes but it seems we would have had to overpay to get him here and it would have been a similar figure.

[Remi Moses]

Who was going to give up pick 13 for Dawes?

Melbourne offered up pick 13

[KT31]

Yeah, not sure what we offered.

Does the money matter, with Lake now not on the books we could have paid overs next season.
Although Im happy we keep the draft pick and if we renegotiate some of the exsisting players payment schedules it will free up more dollars next season.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'm glad we missed out on Dawes but I think it was a mistake to chase him.
I believe in having a system and a process in place.
We're rebuilding and it's been stated by BMac we'll draft our own etc.

Unless an exceptional opportunity arise we should hunker down and stick to the plan.

Dawes is certainly not an 'exceptional opportunity' and we should have ignored him instead of jumping at shadows which seems to be Melbourne's approach this year.

They're still after Gumbleton, so how will Dawes, Watts, Gumbleton, Hogan and Clark all fit into the same forward line in 4 years time? It seems to be a knee jerk, scattergun approach.

Stick to the draft, keep your jewels (Griffen etc) and trade for picks if other clubs are willing.
Then, When you've got your team basically together and ready for a crack, Trade aggressively for needs.

I'll buy that.

[G-Mo77]

Does the money matter, with Lake now not on the books we could have paid overs next season.
Although Im happy we keep the draft pick and if we renegotiate some of the exsisting players payment schedules it will free up more dollars next season.

Which is why the money would have mattered. I firmly believe we'll go down the path I highlighted. To get Dawes we would have had to give the roughly the same amount of cash and years that Melbourne have reported to have given him. Which will give us more flexibility to have a crack at a better FA.

[Mofra]

I'm glad we missed out on Dawes but I think it was a mistake to chase him.
I believe in having a system and a process in place.
We're rebuilding and it's been stated by BMac we'll draft our own etc.
Yep, we'll draft our own.
Except GWS will have 25 first round pick on their list next year, including the top 3 this year - and they're also drafting their own.
They also have bigger list.
They also have a cap allowance greater than us until 2019.
They also have the Sydney cost of living allowance.

The conservative "develop our own" mantra may have been ok in different times, but we need to think outside the box, identify players who may be undervalued at the trade table and still young enough to provide us with decent service.

If we think we can compete with GWS by doing exactly what they are doing despite their concessions, we are kidding ourselves.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Yep, we'll draft our own.
Except GWS will have 25 first round pick on their list next year, including the top 3 this year - and they're also drafting their own.
They also have bigger list.
They also have a cap allowance greater than us until 2019.
They also have the Sydney cost of living allowance.

The conservative "develop our own" mantra may have been ok in different times, but we need to think outside the box, identify players who may be undervalued at the trade table and still young enough to provide us with decent service.

If we think we can compete with GWS by doing exactly what they are doing despite their concessions, we are kidding ourselves.

Fair enough, but Dawes didn't fit into that undervalued category.
Big money and a high pick.

[Mofra]

Fair enough, but Dawes didn't fit into that undervalued category.
Big money and a high pick.
Undervalued doesn't mean cheap and low pick.
Undervalued means what we could get a player for compared to what he would cost at his peak.

Melbourne ended up paying full value (or more) for Dawes, but I certainly think the Bulldogs did the right thing by at least sounding him out.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Undervalued doesn't mean cheap and low pick.
Undervalued means what we could get a player for compared to what he would cost at his peak.

Melbourne ended up paying full value (or more) for Dawes, but I certainly think the Bulldogs did the right thing by at least sounding him out.

I think it was just dumb luck we didn't get him.

But I think we're on the same page here Mofra.

Build through the draft and recruit/trade to need.

Actually identify and chase the players you want instead of just grabbing wildly at any player who suddenly becomes available. Dawes would have never been on our radar. He's certainly not worth what Melbourne are going to pay for him.

[bulldogtragic]

Told today his time at Melbourne is over.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Told today his time at Melbourne is over.

Are you suggesting we get the old Cloke and Dawes pairing back together?

[bulldogtragic]

Are you suggesting we get the old Cloke and Dawes pairing back together?

Noooooo. God no.

We dodged that bullet once, don't go back to dodge it twice.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Noooooo. God no.

We dodged that bullet once, don't go back to dodge it twice.

I didnt really think you were, but couldnt resist

[bornadog]

Noooooo. God no.

We dodged that bullet once, don't go back to dodge it twice.

We dodged that bullet because he wanted to go to the Dees.

[bulldogtragic]

We dodged that bullet because he wanted to go to the Dees.

And on behalf of the Western Bulldogs, I wish to thank him for that and his country footy career next year.

[Raw Toast]

Who was the fool who started this thread all those years ago? Disjointed ramblings of someone who'd never had the pleasure of his club winning a flag I guess.

[KT31]

Who was the fool who started this thread all those years ago? Disjointed ramblings of someone who'd never had the pleasure of his club winning a flag I guess.

A moment of rarity RT.;)

[merantau]

Who was the fool who started this thread all those years ago? Disjointed ramblings of someone who'd never had the pleasure of his club winning a flag I guess.

Re: the pleasure of winning the flag.
This may sound a little over the top to some but, for supporters like myself who've got 60 years of memories in the bank, I don't think the players can even remotely understand the esteem in which I hold them. I will never be able to thank them enough for their efforts in 2016 and particularly during the finals. They were simply magnificent. I travelled back from Indonesia to see the game. I'm back travelling again and courtesy of Woof and the net, even though I'm in a tiny port called Waikelo on the NW coast of Sumba, I'm able to re-live all of the glorious feats of courage, skill and desperation we displayed in that finals campaign. I will take those memories to my grave. I owe the Club a debt that can never be re-paid. How much do I love the Bulldogs? How many grains of sand are there on the beaches of the earth?

[bornadog]

Now delisted.

[Twodogs]

Geez. I hope we don't get any silly ideas.

[1eyedog]

Re: the pleasure of winning the flag.
This may sound a little over the top to some but, for supporters like myself who've got 60 years of memories in the bank, I don't think the players can even remotely understand the esteem in which I hold them. I will never be able to thank them enough for their efforts in 2016 and particularly during the finals. They were simply magnificent. I travelled back from Indonesia to see the game. I'm back travelling again and courtesy of Woof and the net, even though I'm in a tiny port called Waikelo on the NW coast of Sumba, I'm able to re-live all of the glorious feats of courage, skill and desperation we displayed in that finals campaign. I will take those memories to my grave. I owe the Club a debt that can never be re-paid. How much do I love the Bulldogs? How many grains of sand are there on the beaches of the earth?

Not as many as there are stars in the universe apparently.

[westbulldog]

Re: the pleasure of winning the flag.
This may sound a little over the top to some but, for supporters like myself who've got 60 years of memories in the bank, I don't think the players can even remotely understand the esteem in which I hold them. I will never be able to thank them enough for their efforts in 2016 and particularly during the finals. They were simply magnificent. I travelled back from Indonesia to see the game. I'm back travelling again and courtesy of Woof and the net, even though I'm in a tiny port called Waikelo on the NW coast of Sumba, I'm able to re-live all of the glorious feats of courage, skill and desperation we displayed in that finals campaign. I will take those memories to my grave. I owe the Club a debt that can never be re-paid. How much do I love the Bulldogs? How many grains of sand are there on the beaches of the earth?


So well said Merantau, I echo your thoughts, safe travels.

[merantau]

So well said Merantau, I echo your thoughts, safe travels.

Thank you my friend. I made it back to Lombok two days ago all limbs intact. 3100 kms through Lombok, Sumbawa, Flores, Alor, Timor, Sabu, Sumba, Sumbawa and home again. And each night I'd be re-living Finals highlights. It's been the trip of a lifetime - never tire of watching Heath Shaw looking for someone to blame each time Dicko makes him look like a chump. Heath looks like Goddard on roids. Great for a laugh. Thanks Heath.

[westbulldog]

Merantau, re your post "I'm able to re-live all of the glorious feats of courage, skill and desperation we displayed in that finals campaign." - I have watched every final again including the GF a lazy 6 times (so far). Last night I watched the post GF edition of AFL 360 on Fox. Notably, Gerard Whately would have given Dale Morris the Norm Smith medal - Gerard remarked that Dale had 2 kicks - Watching the replays, Dale Morris. Liam Picken and so many others showed all the skill and absolutely unrelenting courage that just epitomises our club motto "Cede Nullis".Thanks to bornadog's post on woof, I will spend the summer reading 'Against all Odds'

[merantau]

Not as many as there are stars in the universe apparently.

Yes, space being infinite, you are right I think. It's pretty humbling when you think about it. Just imagine how many grains of sand in a single 44 gallon drum and how many zillions of drums you could fill before you'd collected all the world's sand. To think that their could be more stars than this is head ache inducing. So, I'm going to watch Heath Shaw waving his arms about, apportioning blame and tongue lashing his team mates for a good belly laugh. Good onya Heath. If you hadn't been born, we would've had to invent you. Jeez it would be great to see you and Goddard playing alongside one another.

[bulldogtragic]

I love the convo. But every time I see this thread updated there's a little piece of me fearing someone posting a new article about us recruiting Dawes.

Phew. Crisis averted, so far.

[westbulldog]

I love the convo. But every time I see this thread updated there's a little piece of me fearing someone posting a new article about us recruiting Dawes.

Phew. Crisis averted, so far.

Never fear

[hujsh]

Merantau, re your post "I'm able to re-live all of the glorious feats of courage, skill and desperation we displayed in that finals campaign." - I have watched every final again including the GF a lazy 6 times (so far). Last night I watched the post GF edition of AFL 360 on Fox. Notably, Gerard Whately would have given Dale Morris the Norm Smith medal - Gerard remarked that Dale had 2 kicks - Watching the replays, Dale Morris. Liam Picken and so many others showed all the skill and absolutely unrelenting courage that just epitomises our club motto "Cede Nullis".Thanks to bornadog's post on woof, I will spend the summer reading 'Against all Odds'

I'm sure it's been brought up here before but I had to laugh when I saw the GWS banners with 'Never Surrender' written on them. Like their club it's just a cheap tasteless ripoff of what we've done better