Chris Dawes?

[Raw Toast]

The rumours swirling around Chris Dawes might prove a painful distraction to the angst generated by the Lake trade, and so I think they're worthy of a thread for themselves :eek:

This might become redundant very quickly if Carlton or another team get him, but ugly noises are abounding of us giving up pick 21 and likely more (another pick or Tutt) for Dawes.

I actually think he is the kind of player that will be good for us, at least for a few years. Our young key position forwards need to get a bit bigger before they can handle being double-teamed and it is better to have someone who can take the punishment rather than risk Cordy/Jones etc being smashed to bits.

Dawes could be a useful foil as the number 1 forward, and the others could go ok learning their craft in the pockets and flanks. I know this is unlikely to be a view shared by many of you, but I'd be happy with him, if the price was right.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty pessimistic on the price being right. I could have lived with swapping Lake for Dawes, because it seemed like we were going to be able to play Lake forward, and Dawes has had much better results as a forward than Lake ever has.

But to give up pick 21 now that we've seemingly been paid unders by the Hawks is not that nice. And then to add another pick or player in with it is even worse.

Carlton seem to be pushing the price up and Dawes is under contract, so can't walk to us via the preseason draft. With the price this high, I'd be happy for him to go to the Blues.

I live in hope but this is hard to be optimistic. Of course, we need to embrace the humour of moments like these. And I did enjoy the moaning of Mapgies barrackers that pick 21 + our pick in the low 40s was way too little (!!!!!) to pay for Dawes. I pray that they are proved correct.

[Desipura]

In a premiership year, he kicked a record high 30 goals in 20 games. I can't see how he could significantly improve his output in a lesser side.
His marking above his heard is Simon Minton Connell like. I cannot get excited by this trade.
Pick 41 I could live with, not 21 and a player, that's ridiculous!

[Dry Rot]

What is Carlton offering?

[Desipura]

What is Carlton offering?

A bag of samboy salt and vinegar chips (I just scoffed half a big packet as I am typing)

[Bulldog4life]

I remember threads similar to this when Kennedy & Schulz were available. Not a lot wanted those 2 either.

[Raw Toast]

What is Carlton offering?

Don't know. But the twittersphere is abounding with rumours that we're giving up Picks 21 and 47.

Hopefully just draft-fever.

*Edit: Actually, that's a bit silly given that pick 47 is being used on Hunter.

[Sedat]

In a premiership year, he kicked a record high 30 goals in 20 games.
Minson kicked about that much as our designated key forward in 2008 - it isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Dawes' ability to hit the scoreboard.

I'm very underwhelmed by the thought of parting with pick 21 form Dawes, let alone pick 21 and another pick or player.

[Desipura]

I remember threads similar to this when Kennedy & Schulz were available. Not a lot wanted those 2 either.

I liked Schultz and thought he was worth a second chance.

[comrade]

I liked Schultz and thought he was worth a second chance.

Source?

[Bulldog4life]

I liked Schultz and thought he was worth a second chance.

You were one of the few Desi.:)

[Desipura]

Source?

I don't get what you mean by source? I'm not suggesting he wants to leave Port

[SlimPickens]

I guess you need to way up his positives and negatives.

Positives-
- Takes no.1 key defender allowing Cordy, Jones, Grant or Dickson to get a lesser like.
- Has a good reputation for his professionalism.
- Is generally a reasonable shot at goal.
- Is in appropriate age bracket meaning he could feasibly play for 6-7 years.
-Still has upside and improvement
-Will be in our best 22


Negatives
-Goes missing in games too often/consistency issues
-His best return so far is 30 goals in a season.
-Salary may be consider "overs"
-Will cost us a first round pick (mind you i'd be calling double standard if people complained about this after saying "it's not even a first round pick" when traded for Lake)
- Will be in our best 22.

An interesting prospect which i'm really not sure about, our alternatives aren't exactly setting the house on fire. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[Desipura]

You were one of the few Desi.:)

There were a few otters on here as well. It's not as if Richmond were asking for a lot for him (unlike Collingwood with Dawes)

[comrade]

I don't get what you mean by source? I'm not suggesting he wants to leave Port

Just interested if you were on of the few that publicly stated they wanted to give Schulz a second chance.

[Desipura]

Just interested if you were on of the few that publicly stated they wanted to give Schulz a second chance.

I did not strongly advocate that we should get Schultz however I always thought he was worth a 2nd chance.
I saw him kick a few bags of 6s in his time at the tigers.
Whether I publicly stated it on here I am not sure. A mate of mine and I thought he could be a decent player elsewhere, that is a conversation I can recall.
I'm sure you will probably search the archives.

And just for the record, I don't lie.

[Sedat]

I liked Schultz and thought he was worth a second chance.
Welcome aboard the Schulz bandwagon Desi - not many seats left now. Still plenty of seats left in my Ed Barlow and Matt Spangher bandwagons :D

[Go_Dogs]

Agree with the OP.

Not totally against Dawes, but don't want to part with pick 21 or more. Shame Collingwood's next pick isn't until 39, but if they could acquire an earlier pick and trade that with Dawes to us for 21, maybe it could come close.

Hope we don't rush in with this, although by the rumours perhaps we have, and perhaps other clubs are prepared to offer more. Guess we'll wait and see.

[azabob]

I guess you need to way up his positives and negatives.

Positives-
- Takes no.1 key defender allowing Cordy, Jones, Grant or Dickson to get a lesser like.
- Has a good reputation for his professionalism.
- Is generally a reasonable shot at goal.
- Is in appropriate age bracket meaning he could feasibly play for 6-7 years.
-Still has upside and improvement
-Will be in our best 22


Negatives
-Goes missing in games too often/consistency issues
-His best return so far is 30 goals in a season.
-Salary may be consider "overs"
-Will cost us a first round pick (mind you i'd be calling double standard if people complained about this after saying "it's not even a first round pick" when traded for Lake)
- Will be in our best 22.

An interesting prospect which i'm really not sure about, our alternatives aren't exactly setting the house on fire. Will be interesting to see what happens.

This is the only way to look at it.

I guess it isn't a good thing when in your best 22 is a negative and a positive. If he could kick 30 goals for us, it would be a positive.

The upside for me is he will take the number one defender, the downside is what picks/ players we will have to give up to get him.

If we could get another second round pick, I would be comfortable on us using that on him.

Better still, lets not even entertain anymore trading and lets go to the draft table.

[Desipura]

Welcome aboard the Schulz bandwagon Desi - not many seats left now. Still plenty of seats left in my Ed Barlow and Matt Spangher bandwagons :D

I was on the Trent Bartlett bandwagon. I sent Wallace a letter stating we should pick him up from the Lions.
Coincedentally and sadly, a month or so later, he was with us. :eek:

[Dry Rot]

I was on the Trent Bartlett bandwagon. I sent Wallace a letter stating we should pick him up from the Lions.
Coincedentally and sadly, a month or so later, he was with us. :eek:

Sir, you are a God.

Bartlett was delisted on the verge of greatness.

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4949/bartlettc.jpg

[SlimPickens]

any chance of keeping the thread on track?

[Raw Toast]

any chance of keeping the thread on track?

I guess we should, but humour around predictions we got wrong and the belated recognition of Bartlett's supernatural powers are part of what keeps us slightly sane.

[LostDoggy]

In a premiership year, he kicked a record high 30 goals in 20 games. I can't see how he could significantly improve his output in a lesser side.
His marking above his heard is Simon Minton Connell like. I cannot get excited by this trade.
Pick 41 I could live with, not 21 and a player, that's ridiculous!

Hard to compare his output of 30 goals when the team was kicking it to Cloke.

[Desipura]

Hard to compare his output of 30 goals when the team was kicking it to Cloke.

And why do you think they were doing that?
We don't currently have a Cloke, Dawes would be our number 1 target, how do you think he would cope?

[LostDoggy]

Had to laugh when I heard this rumour, then shudder when I heard it the 10th time.

The clip shown on the news the other day also made me shudder, when they mentioned he was on the move and Melbourne had shown interest, they showed his recent mark-slipping-through-hands-ball-hitting-head incident, "Good luck to that club" I laughed, which now could mean good luck to us :(

Potential trade has the second-club-failed-forward written all over it

[Maddog37]

He played CHF in one of the best teams in the comp for the last few years and yet he is not good enough to get a game for a team that lost fifteen games straight. A team that basically has no key forwards of any maturity.

He is worth pick 21 but I would prefer 41 and some steak knives.

On the other hand I really have no idea as to how he would go being the main man.

[LostDoggy]

On the other hand I really have no idea as to how he would go being the main man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5W7NH59W1c

Skip to 1:03 - thats how I think he would go. :eek:

[LongWait]

If members of the WOOF community are as offended about the prospect of trading for Chris Dawes as they state they are on here, then I'd suggest they write an email to the club overnight expressing their outrage.

It's likely to be much more effective than having another throw-off on here.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Had to laugh when I heard this rumour, then shudder when I heard it the 10th time.

The clip shown on the news the other day also made me shudder, when they mentioned he was on the move and Melbourne had shown interest, they showed his recent mark-slipping-through-hands-ball-hitting-head incident, "Good luck to that club" I laughed, which now could mean good luck to us :(

Potential trade has the second-club-failed-forward written all over it

I am going to hold off until this is confirmed. I am still holding out that we are not that stupid to make this trade happen.

[gohardorgohome]

12.7 disposals per game this year
0.7 goals per game this year

Not enough for a decoy forward let alone the main man.

No! No! No! No! No!

[Mofra]

Compared to other pick 21s, it's not actually that bad a deal.
He competes hard, hits packs hard and generally runs harder than any of our forwards did this year, even playing with a hand injury for most of the year.

I must admit I was against this when I first heard it, but the more I consider it the less I am against it. His figures aren't dissimilar to Drew Petrie at a similar age and he is certainly better than anyone we have on the list.

Meets the "quality person" criteria off-field as well.

[AndrewP6]

If members of the WOOF community are as offended about the prospect of trading for Chris Dawes as they state they are on here, then I'd suggest they write an email to the club overnight expressing their outrage.

It's likely to be much more effective than having another throw-off on here.

Apart from spleen-cleansing, it won't achieve a thing.

[SonofScray]

Ugh. This has disaster written all over it. We don't need a tall forward. We need a good tall forward. Adding another battler to the mix won't give us much.

[Dog54]

Robbo just tweeted. we are giving both pick 21 and 47 for Dawes.... I am losing faith in the football department very quickly.

[Dancin' Douggy]

If members of the WOOF community are as offended about the prospect of trading for Chris Dawes as they state they are on here, then I'd suggest they write an email to the club overnight expressing their outrage.

It's likely to be much more effective than having another throw-off on here.

I did.


I have been a member of the club for about 20 years and have never contacted the club before about any issue.

I am writing this email to express my hope that the club doesn't use our pick 21 on Chris Dawes.

I have seen the club recruit 2nd and 3rd string forwards with regular monotony over the years.

They never work out. They never change the clubs fortunes. They never 'deliver'.

By trading Brian Lake we have heard the message loud and clear that the club is rebuilding for long term success.
And one benefit of trading Brian was an upgrade from pick 27 to 21.

So PLEASE use the pick on a kid in the draft. PLEASE.

I will be seriously disillusioned with the club if it goes through with the Dawes deal.

I can handle pain while there's hope.
I can't handle mediocrity.

Yours Sincerely.

[DOG GOD]

Robbo just tweeted. we are giving both pick 21 and 47 for Dawes.... I am losing faith in the football department very quickly.

Yep word from the twitter guys is that the Dawes for picks 21 and 47 will be announced tomorrow....oh dear oh dear oh dear. Why is the McCartney era reminding me so much of the rhode era?

[Remi Moses]

So 24 hrs ago the club boasted about 6 picks inside the top 50!
So they blink 24 hrs later!
Simply pathetic to be honest:mad:

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Yep word from the twitter guys is that the Dawes for picks 21 and 47 will be announced tomorrow....oh dear oh dear oh dear. Why is the McCartney era reminding me so much of the rhode era?

I really want McCartney to be successful, but I am getting the impression as each day passes that this whole thing is going sideways quickly.
I will refrain from expressing my dismay any further, lest my negativity make any others sad.

[Remi Moses]

Yep word from the twitter guys is that the Dawes for picks 21 and 47 will be announced tomorrow....oh dear oh dear oh dear. Why is the McCartney era reminding me so much of the rhode era?

What happened to "building from within"
Trying to be positive, but its getting impossible!!

[1eyedog]

Sir, you are a God.

Bartlett was delisted on the verge of greatness.

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4949/bartlettc.jpg

Seems like you make a habit of this with your Jack Redpath bangwagon now:D

I'm not sure Dawes will command the best key back, perhaps he'll get the biggest but not the best. I'm 50/50 on whether opposition coaching staff will view Jones as more a threat and put a McPharlin on Jones and a Dawson on Dawes (for example). Certainly Jones is a better mark, more athletic and has more immediate improvement in him than Dawes.

[jeemak]

Yep word from the twitter guys is that the Dawes for picks 21 and 47 will be announced tomorrow....oh dear oh dear oh dear. Why is the McCartney era reminding me so much of the rhode era?

Which Twitter guys?

[Dog54]

Yep word from the twitter guys is that the Dawes for picks 21 and 47 will be announced tomorrow....oh dear oh dear oh dear. Why is the McCartney era reminding me so much of the rhode era?

So we were all worried about pick 21 for Dawes and we up the anti with 47 as well!! Please tell me it is all a bad dream..... 11 losses on end maybe death is upon the club very soon.

[AndrewP6]

I really want McCartney to be successful, but I am getting the impression as each day passes that this whole thing is going sideways quickly.
I will refrain from expressing my dismay any further, lest my negativity make any others sad.

Feel free to send a PM my way, we could be on the same page.

[AndrewP6]

I really want McCartney to be successful, but I am getting the impression as each day passes that this whole thing is going sideways quickly.
I will refrain from expressing my dismay any further, lest my negativity make any others sad.

Feel free to send a PM my way, we could be on the same page.

[jeemak]

I really want McCartney to be successful, but I am getting the impression as each day passes that this whole thing is going sideways quickly.
I will refrain from expressing my dismay any further, lest my negativity make any others sad.

Perhaps save the maudlin stuff until it's announced at least! :o

[DOG GOD]

Which Twitter guys?

Mark Robinson and jay Clark.

[The Underdog]

Well, if there's one thing I can say about this trade period. I'm constantly being astounded and shocked. Not always in a good way though

[KT31]

Well, if there's one thing I can say about this trade period. I'm constantly being astounded and shocked. Not always in a good way though

That indicates you have been shocked in a good way at some stage.

[jeemak]

Mark Robinson and jay Clark.

Jay Clark - https://twitter.com/ClarkyHeraldSun

Mark Robinson - https://twitter.com/Robbo_heraldsun


Hmmmmm. I'm not convinced.

[bornadog]

Which Twitter guys?

Robbo

Also this:

Jon Ralph ‏@RalphyHeraldSun
If Dogs gave up picks 21 & 47 for Dawes it would basically be a 1st round pick & Lake for an underachieving forward. Still, they need a tall

Jon Ralph ‏@RalphyHeraldSun
I think the Dogs need Dawes. Or someone like him. Important for their structure, so Cordy gets the 3rd best tall, so they can sell hope too

Mark Stevens ‏@StevoHeraldSun
Dogs have 5,6 up sleeve which means they can go a little overs for Dawes. Still 24, big body and will help Jones. Not aghast

[DOG GOD]

Jay Clark - https://twitter.com/ClarkyHeraldSun

Mark Robinson - https://twitter.com/Robbo_heraldsun


Hmmmmm. I'm not convinced.

I really hope your right jeemak

[LostDoggy]

I know i'm in the minority, but I'm in the get Dawes camp.

Although i think pick 21 and 47 is paying overs. I would be happy to part with pick 21 for Dawes.

He's only 24, has proven to be a pretty good player at AFL level for a sustained period and has shown he is a pretty solid 2nd ruckmen, something we are crying out for. Campbell, Cordy, Jones and Grant don't fit any of that criteria.

He's in the age group of players we need. Once our next crop comes through, every premiership side needs experienced players aged 28-31 to compliment the rest of the list.

Having said all that, I won't be too disappointed if we miss out.

[azabob]

Adam White sums it up well-

@White_Adam: The silly chase for Dawes proves why Cloke was worth five years. There are simply very few reliable key position forwards in the competition

@White_Adam: Chris Dawes has kicked 83 goals from 71 games in a team that has more inside 50s than most. This year he kicked 16 goals from 23 games.

@White_Adam: Dawes is a solid player that can 'play a role' in a team and will give everything for his team. But reality seems to have been lost to some.

[Dry Rot]

Seems like you make a habit of this with your Jack Redpath bangwagon now:D


I liked Kingsley Hunter too.

I can see a pattern of talent here: Bartlett, Hunter, Dawes.....

[bornadog]

I liked Kingsley Hunter too.

I can see a pattern of talent here: Bartlett, Hunter, Dawes.....

Biggest issue with Hunter was he had no heart. He did not like body contact at all.

One thing with Dawes, he has a big body which we lack at the moment.

[Sedat]

By trading Brian Lake we have heard the message loud and clear that the club is rebuilding for long term success.
And one benefit of trading Brian was an upgrade from pick 27 to 21.
I think the acquisition of Dawes (assuming it is going to happen) is not the massive disaster some are portraying it to me. However it is a scathing slap in the face for the integrity of our footy dept, when in the space of 48 hours their proclamations about 6 picks in the top 50 (and the unprecedented chance to rebuild for long-term) have hastily been thrown out.

[jeemak]

I really hope your right jeemak

Strange, when I logged on to his twitter feed at the time of posting Robinson's page didn't have any mention of us and Dawes. Now I can clearly see why you might be concerned.

We'll see what else we get out of it. Perhaps there's more detail to it, and a pick swap is involved with our pick 47.

[Remi Moses]

So why on earth would Collingwood pick up a 29y/o to fill the Dawes role?
They've go no confidence in him!!
Got nothing against Chris,as he comes across as a well spoken articulate young man.

[Dog54]

So why on earth would Collingwood pick up a 29y/o to fill the Dawes role?
They've go no confidence in him!!
Got nothing against Chris,as he comes across as a well spoken articulate young man.

You are 100% correct they do not rate him

[jeemak]

I think the acquisition of Dawes (assuming it is going to happen) is not the massive disaster some are portraying it to me. However it is a scathing slap in the face for the integrity of our footy dept, when in the space of 48 hours their proclamations about 6 picks in the top 50 (and the unprecedented chance to rebuild for long-term) have hastily been thrown out.

I don't think Dawes on our list for pick 21 is too much. He's a reasonable player, and you have to pay overs for half competent tall forwards. It's just how things work. Going for 21 and 47 is a bit much for me though.

Sedat, do you recall if they actually stated rebuilding on the back of having six top 50 pickswould be done solely through the draft? If not, I think I have an idea how some might react to the spin dealt out at the end of the trade period, when we actually only draft four players apart from Rookie upgrades, including Hunter!

[bornadog]

Strange, when I logged on to his twitter feed at the time of posting Robinson's page didn't have any mention of us and Dawes. Now I can clearly see why you might be concerned.

We'll see what else we get out of it. Perhaps there's more detail to it, and a pick swap is involved with our pick 47.

Hawthorn want a second round pick for Clinton Young, so the Pies may use their second round which I think is 58 and keep our second round at 47 (the Sam Reid compensation, a freebie as we were lucky to get anything as we were delisting him), or give 47 to the Hawks.

[jeemak]

Hawthorn want a second round pick for Clinton Young, so the Pies may use their second round which I think is 58 and keep our second round at 47 (the Sam Reid compensation, a freebie as we were lucky to get anything as we were delisting him), or give 47 to the Hawks.

Sure. They may also offload another player and pass that on to us. Who knows?

[bornadog]

Sure. They may also offload another player and pass that on to us. Who knows?

I look at 47 differently so I am not fussed. 21 is really a second rounder in any other year but with all the compensation picks activated it is technically a first rounder.

[Raw Toast]

Robbo just tweeted. we are giving both pick 21 and 47 for Dawes.... I am losing faith in the football department very quickly.

As I noted in my original post, I don't understand how we can give pick 47 as well, given that this is the pick we've committed to using on Hunter.

Of course, we do also have pick 42 that we got from the Hawks. Welp.

[Sedat]

As I noted in my original post, I don't understand how we can give pick 47 as well, given that this is the pick we've committed to using on Hunter.
We used pick 46 on Hunter. Pick 47 is the band 5 compensation pick for 'losing' Sam Reid as an uncontracted player to GWS.

[bornadog]

As I noted in my original post, I don't understand how we can give pick 47 as well, given that this is the pick we've committed to using on Hunter.

Of course, we do also have pick 42 that we got from the Hawks. Welp.

F/s is pick 46, 47 is compensation for losing Reid to GWS and 41 we got from the Hawks - sorry Raw Toast you got them all wrong:D

[Raw Toast]

I think the acquisition of Dawes (assuming it is going to happen) is not the massive disaster some are portraying it to me. However it is a scathing slap in the face for the integrity of our footy dept, when in the space of 48 hours their proclamations about 6 picks in the top 50 (and the unprecedented chance to rebuild for long-term) have hastily been thrown out.

Hmmmmm, I'm generally agreeing with your posts, but weren't you also calling for a bit more subterfuge from our footy dept as well? It's a tricky situation, but FWIW I'm happy for them to lie through their teeth if it helps us do better in trade week. I don't want to turn in Pelchen, but a bit of cunning would be appreciated.

The unfortunate thing that I suspect lots of us agree on, is that it is hard to have a heap of faith in the footy dept at the moment. Still if they've got a hidden plan in mind, lets hope it's one that does the job!

[Raw Toast]

We used pick 46 on Hunter. Pick 47 is the band 5 compensation pick for 'losing' Sam Reid as an uncontracted player to GWS.


F/s is pick 46, 47 is compensation for losing Reid to GWS and 41 we got from the Hawks - sorry Raw Toast you got them all wrong:D

Damn. Thanks for that Sedat and BD - I'd forgotten about the compo pick, and thought 47 was what 46 will become after the Goddard compo goes through (which is why I'd bumped up 41 as well)...

[bornadog]

Link (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/department-of-trades/trade-deal-for-collingwood-forward-chris-dawes-still-to-be-done/story-fn69a32t-1226493172346)


WEEKEND talks are expected to decide the future of Collingwood forward Chris Dawes.

Rumours were rife on Wednesday that Dawes had agreed to a deal with the Western Bulldogs, but that was hosed down by his management on Wednesday night.

Dawes' manager, Ben Niall, met the Dogs on Tuesday, but said he was still gathering information so his client could make the best call on where to play next year.

Melbourne was also among the interested parties.

"No decision has been made," Niall said.

"We're still going through a process. We've got a few clubs that we've met with. It's really about getting a sense of the club and its list evolution and where they're going."

Dawes said he wanted to leave the Pies after the club's capture of West Coast forward Quinten Lynch.

The 24-year-old had two years to run on a contract he signed 12 months ago, meaning rival suitors would have to formulate a trade acceptable to the Magpies.

The Bulldogs were not short on draft picks that could get a deal for Dawes over the line.

The Dogs had three first-round selections and six of the first 47 picks after receiving No.21 and No.41 from Hawthorn in the deal for Brian Lake.

[Sedat]

Hmmmmm, I'm generally agreeing with your posts, but weren't you also calling for a bit more subterfuge from our footy dept as well? It's a tricky situation, but FWIW I'm happy for them to lie through their teeth if it helps us do better in trade week. I don't want to turn in Pelchen, but a bit of cunning would be appreciated.

The unfortunate thing that I suspect lots of us agree on, is that it is hard to have a heap of faith in the footy dept at the moment. Still if they've got a hidden plan in mind, lets hope it's one that does the job!
There's behind the scenes subterfuge and then there's blatant lying and mirepresenting the club - if the Dawes trade is true, our guys misrepresented the club on Monday afternoon after the Lake trade.

[Redemption97]

This is sounding more than a rumor now. I'm normally positive but im finding our pick offer hard to accept if true. He'd easily improve us, of that i have no doubt but I think we are paying overs if it truly is 21 & 47.

I've watched him play some good footy in patches over the years. We works hard, hits packs and when confident can be reasonably dangerous.

He at least will take some of the defensive heat off Jones, Grant and Cordy. He really lost his confidence this year so if we do get him I hope the change to the doggies helps him find that lost footy mojo! Be interesting to see him as the alpha forward role rather than second fiddle to Cloke and in the ruck as he did this year.

[G-Mo77]

We got serious unders for Lake and now we're paying serious overs for Dawes.

Meh. I just don't care anymore. Welcome to the club Chris.

Edit: If this goes through

[bornadog]

This is sounding more than a rumor now. I'm normally positive but im finding our pick offer hard to accept if true. He'd easily improve us, of that i have no doubt but I think we are paying overs if it truly is 21 & 41.

I've watched him play some good footy in patches over the years. We works hard, hits packs and when confident can be reasonably dangerous.

He at least will take some of the defensive heat off Jones, Grant and Cordy. He really lost his confidence this year so if we do get him I hope the change to the doggies helps him find that lost footy mojo! Be interesting to see him as the alpha forward role rather than second fiddle to Cloke and in the ruck as he did this year.

Rumour is pick 47 not 41, however see article I posted above, so not done yet.

[SlimPickens]

I guess that is something that may have been lost. Dawes still needs to agree to come to the doggies.

[MrMahatma]

Well, we did want to Bring Back Bartlett. I guess the people spoke and the footy dept listened...

[jeemak]

After reading BAD's link I suppose I might be able to come to the conclusion that our own poor list management and football departments actions this year will be mitigated by the poor list management and football departments actions in previous years!

Dawes, if not just after money, might not view us as a reasonable option to be traded to. I suppose there's always a silver lining, you just have to look very hard for it sometimes!

[Raw Toast]

There's behind the scenes subterfuge and then there's blatant lying and mirepresenting the club - if the Dawes trade is true, our guys misrepresented the club on Monday afternoon after the Lake trade.

In the US they call the month of trading and then drafting in the NFL 'liars month' - it might be an indictment on me, but I don't mind it.

[Raw Toast]

Well, we did want to Bring Back Bartlett. I guess the people spoke and the footy dept listened...

Glorious!

[Twodogs]

Now that I've been to my happy place for a few hours I'm coming to terms with 24 and 40something for Dawes. As already pointed out he'd do a lot of the donkey work up forward and at least he seems to want to come to the club.

If we dont get him then I'm just as happy to keep the picks.

[Redemption97]

Rumour is pick 47 not 41, however see article I posted above, so not done yet.

I've edited. Despite that I'm still not too keen on the alleged offer. 21 should be plenty enough given his drop in form this year.

I saw your link just after my post. Yes he might not be too keen to not be in the finals for a few years! Melbourne is not a great option either on that front!

[Eastdog]

If we are going to get Chris Dawes what role will he play. Would FF be his best position to get the most out of him. If we have him as a second ruck man like Collingwood did we won't get the most out of Dawes. Minson we got the most out of this year as he was our new #1 ruck and hopefully now with Roughead being our #1 fullback he shows his potential.

[Topdog]

I give up if the rumored trade is true

[Redemption97]

I'd say he'd switch between deep forward to lead up player when kicking long up the wings.

This year he wasn't too flash with his marking but when confident I've seen him clunk some great grabs on the lead and contested. Kicking for goal is ok but not super. He's only 24 so there is scope for improvement.

I'd see him taking the opposition's best back and freeing the likes of Jones and Cordy to play on lesser defenders.

[jeemak]

Eastdog, I'm not sure he's suited to second ruck though he will be able to help out in the forward line with those duties if one of either Minson and Campbell have the sub vest on, and Cordy is plainly being played as a forward. Considering Roughead is being earmarked as a backman to replace Lake, he's not likely to be in the equation for ruck duties unless we get injuries on game day, or other key backs like Talia, Markovic and Roberts get early runs on the board and he struggles.

Dawes' only realistic position with us will be as a full forward, or forward pocket. I still think that in the event of us bringing Dawes in, we'll be aiming to have Grant and Jones playing high, Dawes switching between deep forward and 40-50m out with Cordy who will mainly stay deep.

I think it's more likely that Cordy will help out with ruck duties around the ground for developments sake when we need assistance when Minson and Campbell are having a spell.

[anfo27]

I can't believe we are giving up 21 & 47 for this guy. This has been the trade period from hell & there is still 2 weeks to go. I don't think i can last another 2 weeks of this. We are a joke & clubs are laughing at us.

Please do not do this deal.

[Eastdog]

Eastdog, I'm not sure he's suited to second ruck though he will be able to help out in the forward line with those duties if one of either Minson and Campbell have the sub vest on, and Cordy is plainly being played as a forward. Considering Roughead is being earmarked as a backman to replace Lake, he's not likely to be in the equation for ruck duties unless we get injuries on game day, or other key backs like Talia, Markovic and Roberts get early runs on the board and he struggles.

Dawes' only realistic position with us will be as a full forward, or forward pocket. I still think that in the event of us bringing Dawes in, we'll be aiming to have Grant and Jones playing high, Dawes switching between deep forward and 40-50m out with Cordy who will mainly stay deep.

I think it's more likely that Cordy will help out with ruck duties around the ground for developments sake when we need assistance when Minson and Campbell are having a spell.

Cordy helping out in the ruck would be better for him because when his been forward he hasn't looked very convincing. Do you reckon jeemak now if Dawes comes to us and plays up there that we will score more goals than we have this season.

[jeemak]

Link (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/department-of-trades/trade-deal-for-collingwood-forward-chris-dawes-still-to-be-done/story-fn69a32t-1226493172346)


WEEKEND talks are expected to decide the future of Collingwood forward Chris Dawes.

Rumours were rife on Wednesday that Dawes had agreed to a deal with the Western Bulldogs, but that was hosed down by his management on Wednesday night.

Dawes' manager, Ben Niall, met the Dogs on Tuesday, but said he was still gathering information so his client could make the best call on where to play next year.

Melbourne was also among the interested parties.

"No decision has been made," Niall said.

"We're still going through a process. We've got a few clubs that we've met with. It's really about getting a sense of the club and its list evolution and where they're going."

Dawes said he wanted to leave the Pies after the club's capture of West Coast forward Quinten Lynch.

The 24-year-old had two years to run on a contract he signed 12 months ago, meaning rival suitors would have to formulate a trade acceptable to the Magpies.

The Bulldogs were not short on draft picks that could get a deal for Dawes over the line.

The Dogs had three first-round selections and six of the first 47 picks after receiving No.21 and No.41 from Hawthorn in the deal for Brian Lake.


I can't believe we are giving up 21 & 47 for this guy. This has been the trade period from hell & there is still 2 weeks to go. I don't think i can last another 2 weeks of this. We are a joke & clubs are laughing at us.

Please do not do this deal.

We haven't done the deal just yet, and we're not even a lock to land him.

We need to be realistic about who's likely to be available around the pick 21 mark (ie, will they have a bigger impact on our club than Dawes might), and the pick 47 mark before we get too upset about the clubs actions (considering Norf were willing to use pick 35 on Hunter who was rated by most on this site as no better than a very late second round pick, but most likely a mid to late third).

We also need to consider how they see the list balancing out after we potentially offload guys like Sherman, Veszpremi, Grant, Tutt (these are guys that fellow woofers have nominated as potential out-trades, not necessarily mine) etc, and picks we might trade in for them.

I hope there's a plan, I really do. I wasn't as offended by the Lake deal as others, though it seems I'm in the minority on that one. But as you say, there's two weeks to go in the trade period and there might be some very good reasons behind the club acting in the way it has to this point.

I'm not going to pillory the club until the trade and draft periods are over, and we get a bit of a handle on how the players brought in compare to those moved on, and see how the list comes together throughout next year.

[Dry Rot]

I hope there's a plan, I really do.

I think there is, but it's a bad plan. Among other errors, I think it anticipates that Jones and Cordy will be useful forwards.

[jeemak]

I think there is, but it's a bad plan. Among other errors, I think it anticipates that Jones and Cordy will be useful forwards.

That Jones guy that was in the top five or so in the league for contested marks at 20 year old when he had a bigger bodied player taking some the heat off?

I know Cordy has had a slow start, but he's had to work around putting on 25kg or so since being drafted in 2008, amongst dealing with multiple shoulder operations as well. Are you sure you're not jumping the gun with him DR?

If the Dawes trade comes off, irrespective of what we trade for him with I can't see it being a bad thing for Cordy and Jones.

[Dry Rot]

That Jones guy that was in the top five or so in the league for contested marks at 20 year old when he had a bigger bodied player taking some the heat off?

I know Cordy has had a slow start, but he's had to work around putting on 25kg or so since being drafted in 2008, amongst dealing with multiple shoulder operations as well. Are you sure you're not jumping the gun with him DR?

If the Dawes trade comes off, irrespective of what we trade for him with I can't see it being a bad thing for Cordy and Jones.

The bright side is that we'll be shown what our our tall forwards are like in 2013 , finish last and get Boyd.

I don't get see much of the Dogs on TV, but from what I've seen Jones and Cordy are awful tall forwards.

Jones may become a fair CHB to replace Williams, but I dunno where Cordy should play.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Feel free to send a PM my way, we could be on the same page.
For better or worse I tend to limit my participation on forums to that of public discussion. I'm not really on any page.
As someone fairly posted, I should save my maudlin reactions for at least until this deal is officially done.

[Topdog]

The potential is there with Jones DR. Kid can play

[azabob]

Dawes, if not just after money, might not view us as a reasonable option to be traded to. I suppose there's always a silver lining, you just have to look very hard for it sometimes!

By all accounts Dawes isn't after the money, he want's success hence signing a 3 year deal for perhaps less than he was worth.

Having said if he feels he did the right thing by Collingwood and now they have chewed him up and spat him out, he may be just out for himself. Can't really blame him either.

[Mantis]

Nothing has happened yet, but if we give up the rumoured picks for Dawes how can we take those in charge of making footy decisions out our club seriously?

We trade away Lake, which I do see merit in, but to justify this decision we make the point that we now have 6 picks in the top 50 to use as we look to the future... Fine.

But then to be reported to be using 2 of these picks on a player who doesn't look capable of being the 60 to 80 goal forward we would require him to be (especially for a 1st and early 3rd round pick), well we are just digging a big hole for ourselves.

Others may have already raised this point, but they aren't selling me any hope doing this, in fact the are just plain lying.

[chef]

Chris Dawes and pick 39 to the Western Bulldogs for pick 21 and 41, apparently.

[G-Mo77]

Chris Dawes and pick 39 to the Western Bulldogs for pick 21 and 41, apparently.

Look I'd be a little happier with that, would rather hit the draft though.

[azabob]

Nothing has happened yet, but if we give up the rumoured picks for Dawes how can we take those in charge of making footy decisions out our club seriously?

We trade away Lake, which I do see merit in, but to justify this decision we make the point that we now have 6 picks in the top 50 to use as we look to the future... Fine.

But then to be reported to be using 2 of these picks on a player who doesn't look capable of being the 60 to 80 goal forward we would require him to be (especially for a 1st and early 3rd round pick), well we are just digging a big hole for ourselves.

Others may have already raised this point, but they aren't selling me any hope doing this, in fact the are just plain lying.

Others have raised it, and you are 100% spot on.

[whythelongface]

The bright side is that we'll be shown what our our tall forwards are like in 2013 , finish last and get Boyd.

I don't get see much of the Dogs on TV, but from what I've seen Jones and Cordy are awful tall forwards.

Jones may become a fair CHB to replace Williams, but I dunno where Cordy should play.

Jones has a lot of upside. Last year he started the season as the leading go to forward and a lot of expectation was placed on his shoulders. He was often pitted against the opposition's best defender and was also double teamed on numerous occasions. He certainly didn't perform up to our expectations and his confidence slipped noticeably as the season wore. He is still only 21 and is still developing.

If we get Dawes (I only hope we get him if it is for a draft pick in the 40's or lower) then this will help Jones develop as he will have a developed bigger body player as his foil.

What makes you think he may become a fair CHB? Have you see him play there? I can'recall seeing him at CHB but maybe he has and I missed it.

As for Cordy I am not sure of his best position. Again he has shown glimpses of form in the forward line. He is still a long way IMO.

[gohardorgohome]

Chris Dawes and pick 39 to the Western Bulldogs for pick 21 and 41, apparently.

Source?

[chef]

Source?

Someone(usually pretty reliable) claiming to have inside knowledge at the Pies. Don't take it as gospel as it's also on FB and other places on the net.

[WB4Life]

I did.


I have been a member of the club for about 20 years and have never contacted the club before about any issue.

I am writing this email to express my hope that the club doesn't use our pick 21 on Chris Dawes.

I have seen the club recruit 2nd and 3rd string forwards with regular monotony over the years.

They never work out. They never change the clubs fortunes. They never 'deliver'.

By trading Brian Lake we have heard the message loud and clear that the club is rebuilding for long term success.
And one benefit of trading Brian was an upgrade from pick 27 to 21.

So PLEASE use the pick on a kid in the draft. PLEASE.

I will be seriously disillusioned with the club if it goes through with the Dawes deal.

I can handle pain while there's hope.
I can't handle mediocrity.

Yours Sincerely.


basically the same thing i wrote... stay strong stick to the rebuild.

[LongWait]

I hope we do secure Dawes and I don't think that 21 is paying overs at all. Pick 21 is a total crap shoot. The picks we have that are seriously important and where you should have confidence that you will get quality are picks 5 and 6.

I think a lot of supporters under-rate Dawes as a footballer and over-rate the options we have up forward.

Lake, it appears, was to have been the big-bodied key forward option but he didn't want. So Dawes it is. We know that Jones and Campbell can't do it yet, maybe never.

[always right]

Nothing has happened yet, but if we give up the rumoured picks for Dawes how can we take those in charge of making footy decisions out our club seriously?

We trade away Lake, which I do see merit in, but to justify this decision we make the point that we now have 6 picks in the top 50 to use as we look to the future... Fine.

But then to be reported to be using 2 of these picks on a player who doesn't look capable of being the 60 to 80 goal forward we would require him to be (especially for a 1st and early 3rd round pick), well we are just digging a big hole for ourselves.

Others may have already raised this point, but they aren't selling me any hope doing this, in fact the are just plain lying.

I'm normally happy to put my faith in those making decision in the club as they are obviously closer to understanding the grand plan. I have to say though that if the rumours are true and we are proposing a trade of picks 21 and 47 for Dawes, I will be seriously disillusioned.

I don't see great improvement in Dawes. He's 24 and at best he's shown he can be a strong bodied presence up forward. If we are trying to sell hope on the basis we are investing in youth for the future, don't piss two of our draft picks against the wall on a mature age player of limited quality. Offering pick 21 for him is in my view over the odds. Offering up an additional pick essentially means we have traded Lake for Dawes....not a great result.

In years to come I want to watch the players we pick with 21 and 47 and say the club got it right with the Lake trade. Next year is going to be tough....probably tougher than this year unless our young blokes come on quicker than expected. I don't think the inclusion of Dawes is going to make a significant difference and I don't want to watch him running around next year with a knot in my stomach about which talented young blokes we might have picked up instead of him.

[G-Mo77]

I hope we do secure Dawes and I don't think that 21 is paying overs at all. Pick 21 is a total crap shoot. The picks we have that are seriously important and where you should have confidence that you will get quality are picks 5 and 6.

I think a lot of supporters under-rate Dawes as a footballer and over-rate the options we have up forward.

Lake, it appears, was to have been the big-bodied key forward option but he didn't want. So Dawes it is. We know that Jones and Campbell can't do it yet, maybe never.

You're right #21 could be a hit and miss but the club were banging on how important that extra pick in the first round was to them at building and going forward. I'm not that against Dawes but I'm against lying down, again, to a club who seem desperate to unload his contract. From what I hear it's $500K per season for 2 more years so Collingwood possibly have a TPP problem and the $avings so many bleated about Monday after we traded Lake is virtually gone.

The mixed messages that are passed around and the way negotiations have been taking place so far this week it makes me think that our recruiting team has no plan at all and are making things up as they go.

[Throughandthrough]

sounds like its a lock, and done at a fair price. I'm more than happy to have him at teh Dogs, he'll go well.

[whythelongface]

You're right #21 could be a hit and miss but the club were banging on how important that extra pick in the first round was to them at building and going forward. I'm not that against Dawes but I'm against lying down, again, to a club who seem desperate to unload his contract. From what I hear it's $500K per season for 2 more years so Collingwood possibly have a TPP problem and the $avings so many bleated about Monday after we traded Lake is virtually gone.

The mixed messages that are passed around and the way negotiations have been taking place so far this week it makes me think that our recruiting team has no plan at all and are making things up as they go.

Didn't McCartney go on record as saying that we wouldn't be active in the trade period (unless a high quality player was available at the right price). Dawes is a reasonable player but not what I would consider a high quality player. Therefore it appears that there are definitely mixed messages coming from our club in regards to what our strategy is.

[bornadog]

sounds like its a lock, and done at a fair price. I'm more than happy to have him at teh Dogs, he'll go well.

Reading The Age this morning, they say the deals are on the table, we have the best deal for Collingwood, but its now up to Dawes to decide whether he wants to come to the Dogs.

From his perspective he has played finals including GF for the past 4 or so years at a club with seemingly unlimited resources, in front of average crowds of over 50,000 and is made to feel like a god by adoring fans.

He has to way up what the Doggies have to offer in another redevelopment year with very little chance of playing finals, at least for 2013.

Not only is it a big decision for the Bulldogs, but also a big decision for Dawes. Apparently once he makes up his mind, the deal will be done - expected by end of day or tomorrow.

[bornadog]

Didn't McCartney go on record as saying that we wouldn't be active in the trade period (unless a high quality player was available at the right price). Dawes is a reasonable player but not what I would consider a high quality player. Therefore it appears that there are definitely mixed messages coming from our club in regards to what our strategy is.

Of course that is your opinion, yet Macca, Neeld and Malthouse all rate him. Malthouse would like him at Carlton, but they don't have much to offer Collingwood, and would need to free up further players.

[LostDoggy]

Risky trade, but are there many safe ones? So far our effort in the trade period looks something like Lake and pick 27 for Chris Dawes. Dawes is 24 years old, a strong-bodied key forward and we could get 6-8 years service from him. By all accounts is a ripper bloke off-field and can see him following a Drew Petrie like improvement, sooner rather than later. Glad to see the Club making some gutsy choices.

[hujsh]

Look I'd be a little happier with that, would rather hit the draft though.

You're happy with Dawes for pick 21? That's essentially the deal.

Or you could look at it as Lake and pick 27 for Dawes and pick 39. Unless I'm mistaken.

[LostDoggy]

From the way the jungle drums are beating I think we will do this trade, so we may very well need to look at it from a position of what could he do for us, dare I say it, going forward.

Not overly excited by Dawes's own ability, but in the structure of the team overall and as part of a developing forward line could be very useful.

As long as we dont expect too much from him individually...... :rolleyes:

Who knows, he may turn out better than any of us had hoped, and we do need a mature body in the forward line.

I realise that he has some short comings, but due to the diluted talent pool due to 18 teams now involved, it is difficult to get the complete package.

[whythelongface]

Of course that is your opinion, yet Macca, Neeld and Malthouse all rate him. Malthouse would like him at Carlton, but they don't have much to offer Collingwood, and would need to free up further players.


Do they rate him as high quality though? or is he rated just as a good solid player. What is it that makes them rate Dawes? Is it ability or work ethic or attitude or all of these attributes. From what I have seen of him (which is not a hell of a lot) there is definitely some upside too him but he also seems cumbersome as well and carries a bit of weight. Is he the type of player that we want? Why is the club so keen on him?

[bornadog]

Do they rate him as high quality though? or is he rated just as a good solid player. What is it that makes them rate Dawes? Is it ability or work ethic or attitude or all of these attributes. From what I have seen of him (which is not a hell of a lot) there is definitely some upside too him but he also seems cumbersome as well and carries a bit of weight. Is he the type of player that we want? Why is the club so keen on him?

All good questions, but like you I haven't seen a lot of him and can only go by what the coaches say.

[Topdog]

He brings attitude. Not a great mark, doesn't kick many goals, not near pick 21.

Everyone saying Carlton don't have anything to offer. They have a pick before 21. If they really wanted him, i.e makthouse thought he was a very good player they'd be offering it

[jeemak]

He brings attitude. Not a great mark, doesn't kick many goals, not near pick 21.

Everyone saying Carlton don't have anything to offer. They have a pick before 21. If they really wanted him, i.e makthouse thought he was a very good player they'd be offering it

Cllubs prefer to use their first round draft picks on getting in some young talent where possible. We have pick 5 and 6, which minimises the impact of losing a late first rounder, or early second rounder.

[bornadog]

He brings attitude. Not a great mark, doesn't kick many goals, not near pick 21.

Everyone saying Carlton don't have anything to offer. They have a pick before 21. If they really wanted him, i.e makthouse thought he was a very good player they'd be offering it

I doubt Carlton would give up pick 11? Their other problem is the cap.

[SlimPickens]

From his perspective he has played finals including GF for the past 4 or so years at a club with seemingly unlimited resources, in front of average crowds of over 50,000 and is made to feel like a god by adoring fans.

This might be a tad of an overstatement, eat their own springs to mind. Dawes copped it from all and sundry this year. The game against North where him and Cloke both had nights they would rather forget, I thought there was going to be a riot with the magpie army ripping the jumpers off these two blokes.

Like most players Dawes is loved when going well but geez they turned on him quick this year when he wasn't.

[Dancin' Douggy]

This is where it seems crazy to pull the trigger on the Lake deal on day one.

If we were still sitting on that trade we may have worked a 3 way deal with the Hawks and the Pies without losing a top 20 pick.

[Mofra]

Risky trade, but are there many safe ones? So far our effort in the trade period looks something like Lake and pick 27 for Chris Dawes. Dawes is 24 years old, a strong-bodied key forward and we could get 6-8 years service from him. By all accounts is a ripper bloke off-field and can see him following a Drew Petrie like improvement, sooner rather than later. Glad to see the Club making some gutsy choices.
I mentioned on another thread his stats aren't dissimilar to Petrie at a similar age.
Dawes is far more suited to the FF role he played in 2011 than the Leigh Brown type role he played in 2012.

I don't think 21 is overs - the best pick 21 in past years is Hayden Ballantyne and I';d take Dahlhaus (a rookie pick) over Ballantyne.

I am dead against any messing with picks 5 or 6 for Dawes.

[LostDoggy]

This is where it seems crazy to pull the trigger on the Lake deal on day one.

If we were still sitting on that trade we may have worked a 3 way deal with the Hawks and the Pies without losing a top 20 pick.

You reckon we'd get a better outcome dealing with both the Hawks and the Pies at the same time? I highly doubt it.


I mentioned on another thread his stats aren't dissimilar to Petrie at a similar age.
Dawes is far more suited to the FF role he played in 2011 than the Leigh Brown type role he played in 2012.

I don't think 21 is overs - the best pick 21 in past years is Hayden Ballantyne and I';d take Dahlhaus (a rookie pick) over Ballantyne.

I am dead against any messing with picks 5 or 6 for Dawes.

Ballantyne is a little beauty. Definitely ahead of Dahlhaus at the moment, much as I love Lukey.

[LostDoggy]

Well I'm happy enough to get Dawes as our forward line desperately needs a big solid player (resting rucks aren't natural forwards as we've seen) and this will allow the pressure to come off Jones and Cordy and allow them to learn their craft on lesser defenders. Yes we said we wouldn't be active during trade period, however these comments are made based on the information at hand, and as we all know, things change pretty quickly and opportunities present themselves.

Suppose this, Dawes was good in 2010/11, but what if he was playing injured last year and what if his relationship with Buckley isn't strong? His willingness to leave a big successful club and the club's willingness to let him leave could suggest that the relationship isn't strong for various reasons. I also think that Dawes fits the age bracket and also fits within the development plan the club is taking. KPP's don't hit their peak until later on so he is also still developing himself.

At the end of the day, I'll back to the hills anyone who is willing to pull on the red, white and blue.

[WB4Life]

for all those against it, get on twitter, FB, email the club, it may all be for nothing, but doing nothing will for sure do nothing.

make sure they understand that we will stick by them thru the rough rebuilding years. Dawes doesn't fix us in 4 - 7 thats what we need to look at, write of 2013 - 2015, we need to draft for the future, get as many picks as we possible can and build an army...

getting a mediocre big man to take the weight of our up and comers is all well and good, but not at the expense of the rebuild.

[LostDoggy]

for all those against it, get on twitter, FB, email the club, it may all be for nothing, but doing nothing will for sure do nothing.

make sure they understand that we will stick by them thru the rough rebuilding years. Dawes doesn't fix us in 4 - 7 thats what we need to look at, write of 2013 - 2015, we need to draft for the future, get as many picks as we possible can and build an army...

getting a mediocre big man to take the weight of our up and comers is all well and good, but not at the expense of the rebuild.

The club (rightly or wrongly) would have more esteem for what the drunk across the road thinks than the “ferals” on Facebook.

[Dancin' Douggy]

You reckon we'd get a better outcome dealing with both the Hawks and the Pies at the same time? I highly doubt it.



Ballantyne is a little beauty. Definitely ahead of Dahlhaus at the moment, much as I love Lukey.

Yeah but it wouldn't hurt to try. Because we can just sign off on the lake deal in 2 weeks time if don't get a better outcome.

[LostDoggy]

Well I'm happy enough to get Dawes as our forward line desperately needs a big solid player (resting rucks aren't natural forwards as we've seen) and this will allow the pressure to come off Jones and Cordy and allow them to learn their craft on lesser defenders. Yes we said we wouldn't be active during trade period, however these comments are made based on the information at hand, and as we all know, things change pretty quickly and opportunities present themselves.

Suppose this, Dawes was good in 2010/11, but what if he was playing injured last year and what if his relationship with Buckley isn't strong? His willingness to leave a big successful club and the club's willingness to let him leave could suggest that the relationship isn't strong for various reasons. I also think that Dawes fits the age bracket and also fits within the development plan the club is taking. KPP's don't hit their peak until later on so he is also still developing himself.

At the end of the day, I'll back to the hills anyone who is willing to pull on the red, white and blue.

He might also thrive being the number 1 target.

Look, guys, either way at least he looks the part. He might be a bit of an intellectual off-field, but on-field he looks like a gorilla.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I mentioned on another thread his stats aren't dissimilar to Petrie at a similar age.
Dawes is far more suited to the FF role he played in 2011 than the Leigh Brown type role he played in 2012.

I don't think 21 is overs - the best pick 21 in past years is Hayden Ballantyne and I';d take Dahlhaus (a rookie pick) over Ballantyne.

I am dead against any messing with picks 5 or 6 for Dawes.

Yes but it is not logical to look at just who went at pick 21. By losing pick 21 for Dawes we are ostensibly giving up the right to any players between pick 21 and our next pick (47?) For example wasn't Tippet pick 32 and Sam Reid from Sydney pick 30 something. Unless the club think very little of either the talent at that position of the draft, or have little faith in our recruiting team to find talent at that level of the draft then I think we should stick to our plan of drafting our own.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah but it wouldn't hurt to try. Because we can just sign off on the lake deal in 2 weeks time if don't get a better outcome.

(Firstly, sorry for all the replies guys.)

I remember a few times in recent years (correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm sure you all will :)) Hawthorn have pulled out at the last minute and left us stranded, perhaps we just didn't want to give them that opportunity again. Once bitten twice shy.

[Topdog]

My main problem is Dawes is a complete stop gap in my opinion.

[LostDoggy]

Yes but it is not logical to look at just who went at pick 21. By losing pick 21 for Dawes we are ostensibly giving up the right to any players between pick 21 and our next pick (47?) For example wasn't Tippet pick 32 and Sam Reid from Sydney pick 30 something. Unless the club think very little of either the talent at that position of the draft, or have little faith in our recruiting team to find talent at that level of the draft then I think we should stick to our plan of drafting our own.

This strengthens the case for Dawes, in my view. Are we going to find a KPP that can keep the pressure off Cordy, Grant and Jones at picks 21-47?

[comrade]

I mentioned on another thread his stats aren't dissimilar to Petrie at a similar age.
Dawes is far more suited to the FF role he played in 2011 than the Leigh Brown type role he played in 2012.

I don't think 21 is overs - the best pick 21 in past years is Hayden Ballantyne and I';d take Dahlhaus (a rookie pick) over Ballantyne.

I am dead against any messing with picks 5 or 6 for Dawes.

You can't just look at the players picked at 21 in isolation. It's the opportunity cost of giving up pick 21. There is PLENTY of quality left in the draft between pick 21 - 40.

By giving away pick 21, we're giving up the opportunity to recruit a very good young player.

In 2010, Pick 21 would have given you access to Jack Darling, Kieren Harper and Patrick Karnezis (all before pick 30).

In 2009, Pick 21 would have given you access to Mitch Duncan, Jack Gunston and Sam Reid (all before pick 40)

In 2008, Pick 21 would have given you access to Jackson Trengove, David Zaharakis, Jack Redden, Nic Suban, Dayne Beams and Daniel Hannebery (all before pick 30).

[Rocket Science]

I liked Kingsley Hunter too.

I can see a pattern of talent here: Bartlett, Hunter, Dawes.....

Surely Tom Davidson rates a mention too...

[DOG GOD]

Unless the club think very little of either the talent at that position of the draft, or have little faith in our recruiting team to find talent at that level of the draft then I think we should stick to our plan of drafting our own.

In my opinion, if the club have little faith in our recruiting team to find talent around the 21 pick mark, then the recruiting team we have need to be sacked.

[DOG GOD]

You can't just look at the players picked at 21 in isolation. It's the opportunity cost of giving up pick 21. There is PLENTY of quality left in the draft between pick 21 - 40.

By giving away pick 21, we're giving up the opportunity to recruit a very good young player.

In 2010, Pick 21 would have given you access to Jack Darling, Kieren Harper and Patrick Karnezis (all before pick 30).

In 2009, Pick 21 would have given you access to Mitch Duncan, Jack Gunston and Sam Reid (all before pick 40)

In 2008, Pick 21 would have given you access to Jackson Trengove, David Zaharakis, Jack Redden, Nic Suban, Dayne Beams and Daniel Hannebery (all before pick 30).

Some VERY good players there comrade...would love any of them at the dogs !!!

[LostDoggy]

I think the history of us picking up dud forwards was born from the list deficiency we had for a long time with our key forwards and the constant pressure the club was under to unearth a key forward to help take us to the next level. I also believe that the football department these days is much better qualified to make decisions than past footy departments. I will say that this is just my opinion and not based on any real knowledge!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

In my opinion, if the club have little faith in our recruiting team to find talent around the 21 pick mark, then the recruiting team we have need to be sacked.

Correct!

[WB4Life]

The club (rightly or wrongly) would have more esteem for what the drunk across the road thinks than the “ferals” on Facebook.

the point i'm trying to make is it's all well and good to have our intelleuctual discussions on here, but how bout actually going to the club with our concerns... let them know we will support the rebuild thru the bad times. whether that be social media or direct contact with the club itself... whats the point to thumping our chest in private...

don't get me wrong this is not a rip up your membership call to arms, its a call to arms in support of the club, and doing the hard yards to try and reclaim some longterm success!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

This strengthens the case for Dawes, in my view. Are we going to find a KPP that can keep the pressure off Cordy, Grant and Jones at picks 21-47?

See Comrade's post for examples of past talent available. A Jack Darling, a Sam Reid, a Kurt Tippet?
Let's be honest (as opposed to negative) Dawes is not going to improve much, and he is a support act at best. He is not going to make a large difference to our win loss ratio next year. I would rather we locate and stockpile some more talent via the draft than tread water with an average footballer in Dawes.

[Maddog37]

We don't even know if we will get him yet but assuming we do, maybe they think having a more mature individual in the forward line will assist the development of our kids hence the net overall effect is greater than simply the individuals output.


He is young and finals experienced, Malthouse and Neeld both know him well and want him at their clubs.

[DOG GOD]

He is young and finals experienced, Malthouse and Neeld both know him well and want him at their clubs.

Then let them get screwed over by the pies and we can walk to the draft :)

[Hotdog60]

If it happens lets hope he come to us with something to prove, to show the wobbles the error they have made.

Maybe he has been put in a role that is not suited to him and he could be a natural FF which was taken by Cloke and then the deficiencies in the wobbles ruck line up had him also doing something that he was not suited to.

I hope that if it happens that he jumps to another level.

If it does happen let it happen for us in a very big way.

[LongWait]

the point i'm trying to make is it's all well and good to have our intelleuctual discussions on here, but how bout actually going to the club with our concerns... let them know we will support the rebuild thru the bad times. whether that be social media or direct contact with the club itself... whats the point to thumping our chest in private...

don't get me wrong this is not a rip up your membership call to arms, its a call to arms in support of the club, and doing the hard yards to try and reclaim some longterm success!

You should email the club and calmly and rationally explain your view. If more supporters did this about issues they feel are important we would be a better club for it.

I don't think that using internet forums or social media is the most effective way to get to the decision-makers in the club.

[WB4Life]

We don't even know if we will get him yet but assuming we do, maybe they think having a more mature individual in the forward line will assist the development of our kids hence the net overall effect is greater than simply the individuals output.


He is young and finals experienced, Malthouse and Neeld both know him well and want him at their clubs.

this is the obvious thinking, but my problem is we are doing it at the expense of rebuilding thru draft picks, he's and what he brings not worth what we are giving up!

if they are as high on them as they say, where are thier offers? Melbourne have very similar picks to us, while carlton have 11 and 33, i'm sure they could add other pieces, cause they wouldn't be giving up 11.

[Doc26]

Been pondering the Dawes topic since his name first became associated with us. I'm still not convinced it's that bad a move to look at bringing him over at a fair price.

Yes, I to have seen him perform poorly on numerous occasions throughout 2012 although with Leigh Brown moving on at the end of 2011 his role at Collingwood this season did change significantly being called on to fill the very different role that Leigh Brown filled for them as 2nd ruck. Have heard from numerous Collingwood supporters that they believed his Club was doing him a disservice but he battled on without quarrel. He's certainly made of good character and is popular with his team mates.

His confidence loooked damaged as a result of his changed circumstance and appeared to have the effect of limiting his effectiveness as a leading target, too often finding himself running under the ball and losing his ability to take a contested grab or even spoil a contest.

As a strong body, lead up tall forward and at a nice age of ~24 he could certainly fill a need for us in providing a leading target, assist in bringing on the development of Jones, Cordy even Fletcher Roberts whilst helping to give our small forwards a better chance of being competitive.

I don't believe the proposition is as bad as it might seem to be being made out to be.

[WB4Life]

You should email the club and calmly and rationally explain your view. If more supporters did this about issues they feel are important we would be a better club for it.

I don't think that using internet forums or social media is the most effective way to get to the decision-makers in the club.

all my posts, emails have been calm and rational.

i have explained please don't waste our draft picks on a player that will potentially benefit us in the next couple of years, we need to think 4 - 7 years down the track, we need to build from the ground up through drafting talented youngsters, and developing them to be a force in the future, lets be honest the next 2 - 3 years are going to hurt, but can you imagine the group we could put together, not to mention the young talent we currently have on our roster.

these 100 + point loses will hurt, some supporters will get angry, but we have to stick to the long term plan. we will stand behind you in the dark years cause we can see the light.

[LostDoggy]

I understand the position regarding recruiting quality young players and I agree that 21 for Dawes is paying overs, but my issue is that if we go for another young player then we most likely have to wait for that player to play a couple of seasons to see if the pick was worthwhile.

Yes, I think Dawes is worth chasing for the right price. We know what we are getting, he has a big body and will take a larger KP backman to relieve pressure on the less physically developed KP fwds. I know history says we have poor records of picking up KPF duds, but from my memory we didnt have a lot of younger talent pushing up behind these 'great white hopes'. We have 2-3 developing forwards who need to have some physical strength around them to assist in their development.

What price we would be willing to pay, Im not sure (hopefully not pick 21). Collingwood would probably want overs as he is under contract, so if it is an unrealistic price, we need to let it slide and keep looking.

However, I do like the thought of a player with a bigger build to come into the club to help the fwd line over the next couple of years. Maybe someone from the VFL, SANFL or WAFL, at least they wont cost us too much.

[DOG GOD]

I wouldn't mind having Dawes, but I'd like to see if we could offload someone like Sherman and a latter pic for someone's pick around 26-32 and offer that for Dawes.

Someone on big footy mentioned about a trade that would involve us giving pick 6 to GWS and getting picks 12,13 and Anderson in return...how would posters feel about that?

[Murphy'sLore]

Picks 5 and 6 should be untouchable. God! Do GWS really need another pick in the top 10??

[LostDoggy]

If Kurt Tippet nominated Bulldogs has his destination of choice, would the Dawes Knockers be throwing pick 21 at the crows & cartwheeling around whitten oval?
If so, Dawes & Tippet's career average stats read very much the same, except Dawes has a premiership medal & is a year younger, nowhere near reached his peek.

SHUSH.....don't tell Sydney!

Dawes is currently better than anything we have up forward.
I have faith in the people payed lots of money to make these decisions, & I hope they get the deal done!

[always right]

As much as I don't rate Dawes I'm more concerned that we don't pay overs for him. We should walk away unless the deal is a good one and I don't think picks 21 and 47 is a good deal for us. They don't want him so we are in the bargaining position. Surely we aren't desparate to get him.

[LongWait]

all my posts, emails have been calm and rational.

i have explained please don't waste our draft picks on a player that will potentially benefit us in the next couple of years, we need to think 4 - 7 years down the track, we need to build from the ground up through drafting talented youngsters, and developing them to be a force in the future, lets be honest the next 2 - 3 years are going to hurt, but can you imagine the group we could put together, not to mention the young talent we currently have on our roster.

these 100 + point loses will hurt, some supporters will get angry, but we have to stick to the long term plan. we will stand behind you in the dark years cause we can see the light.

All good points too.

[hujsh]

If Kurt Tippet nominated Bulldogs has his destination of choice, would the Dawes Knockers be throwing pick 21 at the crows & cartwheeling around whitten oval?
If so, Dawes & Tippet's career average stats read very much the same, except Dawes has a premiership medal & is a year younger, nowhere near reached his peek.

SHUSH.....don't tell Sydney!

Dawes is currently better than anything we have up forward.
I have faith in the people payed lots of money to make these decisions, & I hope they get the deal done!

Tippet has shown more than Dawes. For one Dawes hasn't kicked more than 30 goals in a season while Tippet has done so 4 years in a row with 55 goals coming in 2009

[Guido]

which means they can go a little overs for Dawes.
"which means we can go a little overs" seems to be our MO in list management.

Thing is, if you do it year after year after year, you are consistently chipping away at the quality of your list. When it comes to the crunch, if you've done it often enough (which we have), a few of these draft picks will inevitably cost you top echelon talents which leave you just short of a premiership.

The question is, would we select Chris Dawes at pick 21 in the actual draft? A guy turning 25 in his first season, on an over the odds wage, with the club at least 3-4 years from genuinely challenging, is it really a prudent move? Does it help or hinder the club's long term premiership chances?

Granted the kid at 21 has essentially got between a one in 2 and one in 3 chance of being a 100+ gamer, the kid at 47 probably a one in 4 chance, but if you do hit, it's a 10 year plus pay-off, and probably for someone who will consistently sit in the top dozen on the list and contribute to a number of premiership tilts.

There is only one way that this club can outperform others and get itself on the pathway to a premiership, and that's via outstanding drafting and managing it's cap better than anyone else. Getting Boyds, Dalhouses, Woods, Wards, Lakes, Harbrows, Gilbees, Murphys, and getting as many of them as possible. This is achieved via having as many tickets in the lottery as possible, NOT through "we've got other picks, so we can afford to offload these other ones on overpaid middle of the road players". Build a salary cap warchest and target REAL solutions: out of contract elite youngsters, or have multi $million contracts ready for the right free agent when the time comes.

I've got faith in the recruiting department (not their trading), but even the best eye for talent in the country is friggen pointless without the picks to be able to pull the trigger on quality young guns when it would/should have been your turn.

And again, are there systems in place to pull the guys in charge up? Given his record, Fantasia is desperate for results NEXT year, not 2016-2017 when the drafted kids will come into their own. Ditto McCartney. They could have a brain explosion and want to trade pick 5 next, who is there to pull them up?

It's the exact same bullshit trotted out in 2003 "we've got 1 and 4, we can afford to be a bit bold". **** bold. How about trying intelligent, prudent, long term planning for a ****ing change.

[always right]

Clubs are built on hope. At the moment the overwhelming mood amongst members is that we need to rebuild so we are prepared to go through some more pain if the medium to long term outcome gives us genuine cause for hope.

IMO trading for Dawes is short sighted. If it goes ahead and doesn't prove successful, all that hope disappears or is severely damaged. The club is in a precarious position. I'm happy to stick with the club no matter what but my sense is we are one major stuff-up away from losing plenty of other members. This is a stressful time when it should be one of genuine excitement about being in a good position to make good drafting decisions for the future.

[Guido]

I have faith in the people payed lots of money to make these decisions, & I hope they get the deal done!
That they're paid big money to manage the footy department means nothing.

I did an analysis on Bigfooty last year on our history in using picks for recycled players - Trading and the Doggies (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/trading-and-the-doggies-15-years-of-pissing-picks-up-the-wall.837159/) - with hindsight, how many pick ups would be regarded as good value given the draft picks used to acquire them? How many of them were "a little bit overs" (and accepted as a necessary evil by both supporters and those in charge) even at the time of pulling the trigger? 80%? 90%?

There are probably another dozen other recycled players that I missed in that thread purely due to the fact that I couldn't even remember them because they barely played a game.

Everyone one of those decisions was made by people being paid hundreds of thousands to manage the footy department, doesn't mean their decision making was any good. Same goes for the current crop.

[Dogmatic]

Surely Tom Davidson rates a mention too...

Aaron james

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't mind having Dawes, but I'd like to see if we could offload someone like Sherman and a latter pic for someone's pick around 26-32 and offer that for Dawes.

Someone on big footy mentioned about a trade that would involve us giving pick 6 to GWS and getting picks 12,13 and Anderson in return...how would posters feel about that?

Forgive my ignorance, but who is Anderson? I looked at the GWS squad & there is no player of that name there.......help!!

[Mofra]

Forgive my ignorance, but who is Anderson? I looked at the GWS squad & there is no player of that name there.......help!!
Jed Anderson, NT zoned player - plenty of discussion on the boards about him already so should be asy to find some info.
GWS can pre-list him and trade him for a pick.

[Mofra]

The question is, would we select Chris Dawes at pick 21 in the actual draft? A guy turning 25 in his first season, on an over the odds wage, with the club at least 3-4 years from genuinely challenging, is it really a prudent move? Does it help or hinder the club's long term premiership chances?

Granted the kid at 21 has essentially got between a one in 2 and one in 3 chance of being a 100+ gamer, the kid at 47 probably a one in 4 chance, but if you do hit, it's a 10 year plus pay-off, and probably for someone who will consistently sit in the top dozen on the list and contribute to a number of premiership tilts.
Dawes almost certainly will play 100+ games for us. I have more faith in that than in Tutt or Howard getting to 100 (I like Tutt but the coaching staff seem to have issues with him).

If we are going to take a risk on a Stringer or Menzel (and I'd be happy to get Stringer), than Dawes balances the risk with the safety of a known quantity.

[Bulldog4life]

Dawes almost certainly will play 100+ games for us. I have more faith in that than in Tutt or Howard getting to 100 (I like Tutt but the coaching staff seem to have issues with him).

If we are going to take a risk on a Stringer or Menzel (and I'd be happy to get Stringer), than Dawes balances the risk with the safety of a known quantity.

I keep reading this Mofra. Is this something you know for a fact or is it like Chinese Whispers?

[SlimPickens]

I keep reading this Mofra. Is this something you know for a fact or is it like Chinese Whispers?

The only thing coach related i recall is Bmac mentioning how impressed he was with how Tutt approached his rehab to injury earlier in the year.

[LongWait]

I keep reading this Mofra. Is this something you know for a fact or is it like Chinese Whispers?

Source of the story appears to be 15 year old trolls on the Facebook page.

[LostDoggy]

Jed Anderson, NT zoned player - plenty of discussion on the boards about him already so should be asy to find some info.
GWS can pre-list him and trade him for a pick.

Cheers Mofra.

If it's a high number of picks within the top 50 that we are looking for, is there a huge difference between having #5 & #6, trading away #6, keeping #5, but getting #12 & #13 as maybe a player as well?

I wonder if the club are looking at that deal to securing Dawes at #21 but then still having 3 first rounders? Just hope they dont pay overs for Dawes.

[Hotdog60]

I think the general consensus is we don't mind Dawes coming on board it's just we don't want to pay too much.

[Murphy'sLore]

I think the general consensus is we don't mind Dawes coming on board it's just we don't want to pay too much.

Just like we didn't mind losing Lake, but feel we didn't get enough for him.

[KT31]

I think the general consensus is we don't mind Dawes coming on board it's just we don't want to pay too much.

Agree.

[Bulldog4life]

Source of the story appears to be 15 year old trolls on the Facebook page.

Thanks LW. Thought as much. It keeps popping up. Tutty had an injury plagued season. Looking forward to see how he goes in 2013.

[Mofra]

If it's a high number of picks within the top 50 that we are looking for, is there a huge difference between having #5 & #6, trading away #6, keeping #5, but getting #12 & #13 as maybe a player as well?

I wonder if the club are looking at that deal to securing Dawes at #21 but then still having 3 first rounders? Just hope they dont pay overs for Dawes.
Hard to say, I assume at this stage of proceedings we have a strong idea of who we want at 5 & 6 and who may be available at 12 & 13.

If it was #6 for #12 & #13 and Jed Anderson, in my uniformed opinion, we'd jump at it.


Source of the story appears to be 15 year old trolls on the Facebook page.
Nope.

[Topdog]

Dawes won't get to 100 with us. He'll plug a gap for 4 seasons and then be out of AFL.

Fantastic posts Guido

[stefoid]

At the end of the day he is a forward who has trouble marking the ball, which is like an outside mid who cant kick. - if your form is good you can achieve 'average' and if it isnt you are deplorable.

[Grantysghost]

If Kurt Tippet nominated Bulldogs has his destination of choice, would the Dawes Knockers be throwing pick 21 at the crows & cartwheeling around whitten oval?
If so, Dawes & Tippet's career average stats read very much the same, except Dawes has a premiership medal & is a year younger, nowhere near reached his peek.

SHUSH.....don't tell Sydney!

Dawes is currently better than anything we have up forward.
I have faith in the people payed lots of money to make these decisions, & I hope they get the deal done!

Tippett is one of those players that could potentially be anything. Has a huge upside. I was at the prelim and those kind of guys in finals are gold. He and Walker nearly took the game away from the Hawks. On Dawes current seasons form you couldn't rate his ability as equal to Tippett's. Be interesting to see what happens if Kurt gets k'od in his first hit out with the Swannies. Bit of a worry there. If we get Dawes, i just hope we don't give away too much. (PLEASE!).

[Remi Moses]

I'm a little bemused by the Tutt negativity.
He hasn't been able to get on the park for anyone to give an accurate Assesment !

[Topdog]

If Kurt Tippet nominated Bulldogs has his destination of choice, would the Dawes Knockers be throwing pick 21 at the crows & cartwheeling around whitten oval?
If so, Dawes & Tippet's career average stats read very much the same, except Dawes has a premiership medal & is a year younger, nowhere near reached his peek.

SHUSH.....don't tell Sydney!

Tippett gets more kicks, hitouts and most importantly goals. Tippett has shown the ability to kick bags kicking 5 or more 6 times in his career. Dawes has 0. Tippett has kicked 4 goals in a game 14 times, Dawes 2. Tippet hits the scoreboard 3.1 times a game, Dawes 1.9.

Dawes has 13 goals in 12 finals. Tippett has 13 in 6.

Yep very similar output.

Dawes does get 2 more handballs a game and 1 more mark. But I'll take 4 or more goals 20 times compared to 2 anyday to the week and twice on Friday, Saturdays and Sundays

[bornadog]

I'm a little bemused by the Tutt negativity.
He hasn't been able to get on the park for anyone to give an accurate Assesment !

There is no negativity towards Tutt, however, the coaching stuff have some issues (from what we hear)

[bornadog]

Dawes has been paid a visit from Neeld and Leigh Brown (now Melbourne ass) to try and convince him to go to Melbourne.

I won't be unhappy if he doesn't choose the dogs, but will welcome him if he does. Personally, I don't think he will be playing for us.

[Topdog]

Would rather have a crack at Gumbleton

[azabob]

Would rather have a crack at Gumbleton

Seriously, stop mucking around and giving the club possible ideas.

[Sedat]

That they're paid big money to manage the footy department means nothing.

I did an analysis on Bigfooty last year on our history in using picks for recycled players - Trading and the Doggies (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/trading-and-the-doggies-15-years-of-pissing-picks-up-the-wall.837159/) - with hindsight, how many pick ups would be regarded as good value given the draft picks used to acquire them? How many of them were "a little bit overs" (and accepted as a necessary evil by both supporters and those in charge) even at the time of pulling the trigger? 80%? 90%?

There are probably another dozen other recycled players that I missed in that thread purely due to the fact that I couldn't even remember them because they barely played a game.

Everyone one of those decisions was made by people being paid hundreds of thousands to manage the footy department, doesn't mean their decision making was any good. Same goes for the current crop.
Can't argue with any of that Guido. Dalrymple stuffed his first draft with us but he has shown a good eye for talent since then - would be good to back him in and give him a strong hand to deal with on draft day this year. How good would it be to unearth another 1999 crop, or a Geelong 1999/2001 crop?

It's as if we got Lachie Hunter for slight unders so feel duty-bound to give overs for the rest of our trades. Clayton was shrewd during trade week (still is) and never paid overs for any recycled player. Sure they didn't all work out but when you bring in a Tim Callan for a 2-spot downgrade from pick 61 to 63 it's not exactly betting the farm.

[DOG GOD]

We did give 20's for street and koops didn't we? I might be wrong, under clayton.

[Sedat]

We did give 20's for street and koops didn't we? I might be wrong, under clayton.
Clayton was only recruiter from 1999 to 2003 - in 2003 Stephen Newport was our trade week negotiator and head of football. When he was given the lemonade and sars, Clayton stepped in and became list manager and player contract negotiator before Fantasia's arrival at the kennel.

[Murphy'sLore]

Given that an announcement on Dawes was supposedly imminent this time yesterday, and we've still heard nothing, is it fair to assume that the wheels have fallen off the deal?

[azabob]

Given that an announcement on Dawes was supposedly imminent this time yesterday, and we've still heard nothing, is it fair to assume that the wheels have fallen off the deal?

It appears the deal was never imminent. Dawes is still yet to decide which club he wants to go to.

[DOG GOD]

Clayton was only recruiter from 1999 to 2003 - in 2003 Stephen Newport was our trade week negotiator and head of football. When he was given the lemonade and sars, Clayton stepped in and became list manager and player contract negotiator before Fantasia's arrival at the kennel.

Oh, forgot about Newport. Thanks for clarifying that sedat.

[LongWait]

Can't argue with any of that Guido. Dalrymple stuffed his first draft with us but he has shown a good eye for talent since then - would be good to back him in and give him a strong hand to deal with on draft day this year. How good would it be to unearth another 1999 crop, or a Geelong 1999/2001 crop?

It's as if we got Lachie Hunter for slight unders so feel duty-bound to give overs for the rest of our trades. Clayton was shrewd during trade week (still is) and never paid overs for any recycled player. Sure they didn't all work out but when you bring in a Tim Callan for a 2-spot downgrade from pick 61 to 63 it's not exactly betting the farm.

The drafting strike rate once you get past the top dozen picks is not very high. The average AFL footballer will play less than 30 games. Not saying we shouldn't invest heavily in the draft and use drafting as our primary team building strategy, but to only use the draft would be just as flawed in my opinion as only using trading and free agency.

I think it is about getting the balance between the recruitment methods right for the club at any given time. Assess each opportunity on it's merits and not be dogmatic about any one approach.

Which was the last Premiership team not to have a single player that was traded in from another club?

[DOG GOD]

It appears the deal was never imminent. Dawes is still yet to decide which club he wants to go to.

Hopefully with the neeld/ brown influence that will get him to Melbourne.

[Mantis]

Dawes has been paid a visit from Neeld and Leigh Brown (now Melbourne ass) to try and convince him to go to Melbourne.

I won't be unhappy if he doesn't choose the dogs, but will welcome him if he does. Personally, I don't think he will be playing for us.

If some of the offers I'm hearing are true in reagrd to players from other clubs Dawes would eb silly to knock back an offer from Melb.


Given that an announcement on Dawes was supposedly imminent this time yesterday, and we've still heard nothing, is it fair to assume that the wheels have fallen off the deal?

Has Dawes even told Coll that he wants out? Considering that he is still contracted I'm pretty sure nothing can happen until a request for trade is made.

[LongWait]

If some of the offers I'm hearing are true in reagrd to players from other clubs Dawes would eb silly to knock back an offer from Melb.



Has Dawes even told Coll that he wants out? Considering that he is still contracted I'm pretty sure nothing can happen until a request for trade is made.

Collingwood were shopping Dawes around last week without his knowledge apparently.

[bornadog]

Dawes decision 'by Monday'
By Peter Ryan
1:42 PM Thu 11 Oct, 2012

MELBOURNE expects Collingwood's Chris Dawes to make a decision on his future before the weekend is over.

Dawes has a contract with the Magpies but indicated last week he was keen to explore his options after Collingwood recruited ruckman/forward Quinten Lynch from West Coast under free agency.

Demons coach Mark Neeld said he and assistant coach Leigh Brown had met with Dawes - a player Neeld coached at Collingwood and a former teammate of Brown's - a couple of times but Dawes was yet to make the call on where he wanted to play next season.

"We've also been told that we are one of three (clubs interested in Dawes) so at the very worst we're 33 and a bit per cent chance," Neeld said.

[Guido]

Dawes almost certainly will play 100+ games for us. I have more faith in that than in Tutt or Howard getting to 100 (I like Tutt but the coaching staff seem to have issues with him).

If we are going to take a risk on a Stringer or Menzel (and I'd be happy to get Stringer), than Dawes balances the risk with the safety of a known quantity.
I don't think he'll make 100 games with us, but regardless, you could say "could probably play 100+ games for us" for most established mid-tier 24/25 year olds in the comp. It doesn't mean trading a first rounder for them is quality list management.

IMO, there are certain keys to a successful trade pick-up:

Must be more likely than not to be among the comps top 100 players - possible, but probably not
Must be of an age where he is likely to be a contributor to your next flag tilt - possible, but probably not
Unless 5 mins to midnight on the premiership clock, must be more likely than not to play 100 games or more - 50/50

Look at the range of pick (+/- 3 selections) we're looking at. Just in the last few years, 19-25 gets the likes of Fyfe, Ward, Bastinac, Menzel, Redden, Shuey, Zaharakis, Isaac Smith ... if there's quality of that standard in this year's draft at the pick we're discussing, is this a good trade?

[Eastdog]

Free Agency it causes all these rumours. Apparently Dawes is going to announce what he is going to do in a couple of days.

[Hotdog60]

Free Agency it causes all these rumours. Apparently Dawes is going to announce what he is going to do in a couple of days.

I don't think Dawes is a free agent and is still under a 2 year contract (I think)

[azabob]

Free Agency it causes all these rumours. Apparently Dawes is going to announce what he is going to do in a couple of days.


I don't think Dawes is a free agent and is still under a 2 year contract (I think)

Correct Hotdog, free agency has nothing to do with the Dawes situation.

[Eastdog]

I don't think Dawes is a free agent and is still under a 2 year contract (I think)

You're right Hotdog60. If Dawes is going to move its going to be a trade and will cost something as yes he is still contracted. I was just saying with free agency that it has created lots of rumours some maybe true some not.

[Sedat]

The drafting strike rate once you get past the top dozen picks is not very high. The average AFL footballer will play less than 30 games. Not saying we shouldn't invest heavily in the draft and use drafting as our primary team building strategy, but to only use the draft would be just as flawed in my opinion as only using trading and free agency.

I think it is about getting the balance between the recruitment methods right for the club at any given time. Assess each opportunity on it's merits and not be dogmatic about any one approach.

Which was the last Premiership team not to have a single player that was traded in from another club?
All good points LW. I would say we've under-utilised the draft since 2000 and over-used recycled players. Apart from 2002 when we had 3 picks in the top 20, we've never had a really strong hand of high picks in any given year - we've always had a penchant for trading out 2nd/3rd round picks, even when we've had a clutch of really high picks in some years and decided to trade them out (like 2003).

As you say, a good mix of the two philosophies is what's needed, but just as importantly it is crucial to understand the worth of a) the draft pick in question and b) the player being recycled - IMO we've been poor in establishing the true worth of players we are trading in and have paid overs on just about every single one (including Barry Hall) in the last few seasons, which goes back to my point about us being poor negotiators. Also when there are multiple suitors (as is the case with Dawes) sometimes it is best just to walk away and hold onto the pick/s, because invariably you'll pay overs.

[Guido]

Can't argue with any of that Guido. Dalrymple stuffed his first draft with us but he has shown a good eye for talent since then - would be good to back him in and give him a strong hand to deal with on draft day this year. How good would it be to unearth another 1999 crop, or a Geelong 1999/2001 crop?
It's more the players that he's missed out on which gives me confidence.

His number #1 option before Howard was Jetta, a couple of year's ago the number #1 on his draft list given our position was Howe, he had Mzungu as a pre-list target, there's plenty of examples/cues to prove he's not out of his depth.

Clayton was shrewd during trade week (still is) and never paid overs for any recycled player.
IMO a couple of his trades were too smart/cute by half and cost us, but we'll agree to disagree. :)

[Eastdog]

All good points LW. I would say we've under-utilised the draft since 2000 and over-used recycled players. Apart from 2002 when we had 3 picks in the top 20, we've never had a really strong hand of high picks in any given year - we've always had a penchant for trading out 2nd/3rd round picks, even when we've had a clutch of really high picks in some years and decided to trade them out (like 2003).

As you say, a good mix of the two philosophies is what's needed, but just as importantly it is crucial to understand the worth of a) the draft pick in question and b) the player being recycled - IMO we've been poor in establishing the true worth of players we are trading in and have paid overs on just about every single one (including Barry Hall) in the last few seasons, which goes back to my point about us being poor negotiators. Also when there are multiple suitors (as is the case with Dawes) sometimes it is best just to walk away and hold onto the pick/s, because invariably you'll pay overs.

Recycled players: Why do you reckon Sydney can pull it off so well. Why do clubs like us always struggle with that.

[LongWait]

All good points LW. I would say we've under-utilised the draft since 2000 and over-used recycled players. Apart from 2002 when we had 3 picks in the top 20, we've never had a really strong hand of high picks in any given year - we've always had a penchant for trading out 2nd/3rd round picks, even when we've had a clutch of really high picks in some years and decided to trade them out (like 2003).

As you say, a good mix of the two philosophies is what's needed, but just as importantly it is crucial to understand the worth of a) the draft pick in question and b) the player being recycled - IMO we've been poor in establishing the true worth of players we are trading in and have paid overs on just about every single one (including Barry Hall) in the last few seasons, which goes back to my point about us being poor negotiators. Also when there are multiple suitors (as is the case with Dawes) sometimes it is best just to walk away and hold onto the pick/s, because invariably you'll pay overs.

I think from memory we used pick 47 on Hall. Wasn't overs given we got two good seasons from him when we were in Premiership mode. Aker and Hudson were also good trades at the time and we didn't pay overs. Our trading record under Fantasia (cue howls of derision) isn't as bad as it's sometimes portrayed on here.

Anyway, it seems you and I broadly agree on strategy and hope that the club negotiates well in whatever it does. I thought it was a promising sign that we didn't flinch when Gold Coast and then Melbourne went hard for the Mini Draft picks. We didn't fall in love with the deal and immediately counter with a higher offer. We seem to have known our walk away price and when it was exceeded, we walked.

It looks like we haven't fallen in love with the Dawes trade either. We have put a bid on the table and others have raced in as well to make their offers to Dawes and bids to Collingwood. We should walk on this trade as well if the price asked exceeds our valuation on the trade. Whether you agree with the bid we are alleged to have made is another matter - but the signs are there that we are not being reckless, nor naive.

[Mantis]

It looks like we haven't fallen in love with the Dawes trade either. We have put a bid on the table and others have raced in as well to make their offers to Dawes and bids to Collingwood. We should walk on this trade as well if the price asked exceeds our valuation on the trade. Whether you agree with the bid we are alleged to have made is another matter - but the signs are there that we are not being reckless, nor naive.

Are you certain we have?

I know we have approached Dawes with an offer, but have we approached Collingwood?

[LongWait]

Are you certain we have?

I know we have approached Dawes with an offer, but have we approached Collingwood?

I don't know what the bid is but I do know that discussions with Collingwood have taken place.

What are you getting at?

[G-Mo77]

So it looks like it's Melbourne. Can't say I'm that upset.

[azabob]

So it looks like it's Melbourne. Can't say I'm that upset.

Why are you saying it's Melbourne?

[G-Mo77]

Why are you saying it's Melbourne?

Just reading reports and putting 2 + 2 together. Doesn't seem like we're pushing that hard from what I've read. Could be leaks from player managers or Collingwood to talk up a bit of extra currency.

[Sedat]

I think from memory we used pick 47 on Hall. Wasn't overs given we got two good seasons from him when we were in Premiership mode. Aker and Hudson were also good trades at the time and we didn't pay overs. Our trading record under Fantasia (cue howls of derision) isn't as bad as it's sometimes portrayed on here.
Hall was 33yo and just missed half a season after effectively being kicked out of Sydney. It's a credit to him that he played so well for us but a 3rd round pick on its own was significant overs - in any event, Sydney was supposed to throw pick 55 back to us as part of the deal so it was only going to be an 8 pick downgrade but we somehow ended up forgetting/not submitting the paperwork for this added pick. The same thing happened with the Vesz/Everitt trade - sloppy work. They are smallish things in isolation but they add up. The additional pick in the Hall trade for example could have been used by Dalrymple on a young project instead of picking up a fringe dud or retaining a veteran like Eagle one year too long.

Aker and Hudson trades were both under Clayton's watch and I thought both were good trades - Aker would have been a great trade if he was able to get a kick in the 09 PF and then retired that season after a 4th premiership. Hudson and pick 43 for pick 30 and 38 was a bargain outlay considering a dud like Cameron Wood commanded pick 14 outright in the same trade period.

[azabob]

Just reading reports and putting 2 + 2 together. Doesn't seem like we're pushing that hard from what I've read. Could be leaks from player managers or Collingwood to talk up a bit of extra currency.

Got ya. Neeld & Co seem fairly confident in getting him to agree.

Could work out for the best.

[Sedat]

Recycled players: Why do you reckon Sydney can pull it off so well. Why do clubs like us always struggle with that.
Sydney has had some misses - Everitt (x2), Paul Chambers, Henry Playfair spring to mind. Didn't they get David Spriggs as well?
What Sydney are good at in the main is identifying 'unsexy' players who can provide a role and who are under-valued by the rest of the competition. Marty Mattner, Ted Richards, Rhyce Shaw, Kennedy, McGlynn all good examples. None of the other clubs were rushing the door down to get these players at the time, and they have all played their roles well once at the Swans.

[LongWait]

Hall was 33yo and just missed half a season after effectively being kicked out of Sydney. It's a credit to him that he played so well for us but a 3rd round pick on its own was significant overs - in any event, Sydney was supposed to throw pick 55 back to us as part of the deal so it was only going to be an 8 pick downgrade but we somehow ended up forgetting/not submitting the paperwork for this added pick. The same thing happened with the Vesz/Everitt trade - sloppy work. They are smallish things in isolation but they add up. The additional pick in the Hall trade for example could have been used by Dalrymple on a young project instead of picking up a fringe dud or retaining a veteran like Eagle one year too long.

Aker and Hudson trades were both under Clayton's watch and I thought both were good trades - Aker would have been a great trade if he was able to get a kick in the 09 PF and then retired that season after a 4th premiership. Hudson and pick 43 for pick 30 and 38 was a bargain outlay considering a dud like Cameron Wood commanded pick 14 outright in the same trade period.

I know what you think of Fantasia so I won't go there ;) But I think you are not giving credit for the Hall trade. We all know the circumstances that lead to the trade, but your perception of pick 47 being overs doesn't equate for me with the output we got for Hall and doesn't acknowledge that we really wanted him - and Hall's output for us showed that we were right to have that view. We made a Prelim immediately and Hall kicked 80 goals that year. It was a really good trade for us and well worth pick 47.

[Mantis]

I don't know what the bid is but I do know that discussions with Collingwood have taken place.

What are you getting at?

That's fine.. I'm hearing that we are awaiting Dawes response before progressing, but if you have heard we have had discussions with Coll I'll take it that we have.

[azabob]

Sydney has had some misses - Everitt (x2), Paul Chambers, Henry Playfair spring to mind. Didn't they get David Spriggs as well?
What Sydney are good at in the main is identifying 'unsexy' players who can provide a role and who are under-valued by the rest of the competition. Marty Mattner, Ted Richards, Rhyce Shaw, Kennedy, McGlynn all good examples. None of the other clubs were rushing the door down to get these players at the time, and they have all played their roles well once at the Swans.

Mark Seaby, if you really sat down and thought about it they probably have a 50/50 strike rate, so are they really that good at it? Or due to law of averages they do it so often they have to get lucky, some of the time?

[Sedat]

But I think you are not giving credit for the Hall trade.
It's not about the picking up of Hall - he was a terrific acquisition - it was about establishing his worth at the time he was traded. He was out of contract for starters, Sydney had clearly had enough of him and wanted him out of the club, he was 33yo and in the games he played in 2009 he was moving around like the Queen Mary, and hardly any other clubs were interested in him. We could have just let him go through to the PSD with 99% surety that he would still be there.

In the end we agreed to a pick downgrade in the 3rd round, but somehow this ended up being a straight out 3rd round pick. Had we secured the downgraded 3rd round pick (as was initially agreed to between the clubs), Tutt could have been selected at pick 55 (nobody else had him on their radar), freeing up pick 31 to get any number of players - Sam Reid, Allen Christensen, Nathan Vardy, Ben Stratton, Sam Shaw all notables that were still available at pick 31. Instead we had 1 less ND pick than we otherwise should have, and chose to upgrade Mulligan onto the main list. Like I said, smallish things can manifest into bigger things.

[LongWait]

It's not about the picking up of Hall - he was a terrific acquisition - it was about establishing his worth at the time he was traded. He was out of contract for starters, Sydney had clearly had enough of him and wanted him out of the club, he was 33yo and in the games he played in 2009 he was moving around like the Queen Mary, and hardly any other clubs were interested in him. We could have just let him go through to the PSD with 99% surety that he would still be there.

In the end we agreed to a pick downgrade in the 3rd round, but somehow this ended up being a straight out 3rd round pick. Had we secured the downgraded 3rd round pick (as was initially agreed to between the clubs), Tutt could have been selected at pick 55 (nobody else had him on their radar), freeing up pick 31 to get any number of players - Sam Reid, Allen Christensen, Nathan Vardy, Ben Stratton, Sam Shaw all notables that were still available at pick 31. Instead we had 1 less ND pick than we otherwise should have, and chose to upgrade Mulligan onto the main list. Like I said, smallish things can manifest into bigger things.

The PSD approach is supposition on your part - you can't know the unknowable and can't know that we could have picked Hall up before anyone else in the PSD. It only takes one club to take the risk and we miss out. Getting greedy is rarely a good negotiating or trading tactic in my experience.

Hall's value at the time was whatever someone was prepared to pay for him - not what you and I might think someone would hypothetically or theoretically pay for him. We were prepared to pay pick 47 and Sydney accepted. We got good value for that pick - so I maintain that it was a good trade at a good price.

The rest of the stuff you've mentioned is about your view of Fantasia's incompetence. I haven't got a clue about that and won't comment.

[Sedat]

Hall's value at the time was whatever someone was prepared to pay for him
Quite right - Kerry Packer once sold Channel 9 for $1bn to Alan Bond ;)

[F'scary]

Just reading reports and putting 2 + 2 together. Doesn't seem like we're pushing that hard from what I've read. Could be leaks from player managers or Collingwood to talk up a bit of extra currency.


Got ya. Neeld & Co seem fairly confident in getting him to agree.

Could work out for the best.

Correct. I have analysed his career statistics. Unless Western Bulldogs intend using draft picks to bolster their reserves team, he is a dud.

[Eastdog]

We may not get him and that probably would be better for us in that we keep our draft picks and go for the best young talent in the country. Do you reckon though if Dawes did come and play with us that he may play better than he was at Collingwood. There are certains areas of his game that need improving but he still could be very useful.

[LostDoggy]

We may not get him and that probably would be better for us in that we keep our draft picks and go for the best young talent in the country. Do you reckon though if Dawes did come and play with us that he may play better than he was at Collingwood. There are certains areas of his game that need improving but he still could be very useful.

Had a good season the previous year and had to ruck this year. 80 games 24 year old key forward, something that we need at the moment. He will get back to his 2011 form if he is used as our main forward.... Draft him

[GVGjr]

Surely Tom Davidson rates a mention too...

Not really. A rookie list player who couldn't earn a promotion with 12 senior players injured.

[Eastdog]

Had a good season the previous year and had to ruck this year. 80 games 24 year old key forward, something that we need at the moment. He will get back to his 2011 form if he is used as our main forward.... Draft him

In that case if we do use him as a key forward he would be a very good pick up and hopefully he recaptures that form from 2011.

[Remi Moses]

Sydney has had some misses - Everitt (x2), Paul Chambers, Henry Playfair spring to mind. Didn't they get David Spriggs as well?
What Sydney are good at in the main is identifying 'unsexy' players who can provide a role and who are under-valued by the rest of the competition. Marty Mattner, Ted Richards, Rhyce Shaw, Kennedy, McGlynn all good examples. None of the other clubs were rushing the door down to get these players at the time, and they have all played their roles well once at the Swans.

Spot on. They're batting about 500, I 'd reckon.
The whole moneyball and Sydney comparison is nonsense.
Kennedy and Mumford were offered better deals than from their old clubs.
Their good drafting gets overlooked

[Topdog]

Had a good season the previous year and had to ruck this year. 80 games 24 year old key forward, something that we need at the moment. He will get back to his 2011 form if he is used as our main forward.... Draft him

I'd question rating his season as good. It was average. Surely 40 goals is needed for good?
Dawes didn't even reach 30.

Let's stop rating him just because he is now linked to us. I can't believe someone even mentioned him in the same league as Tippett.

[Throughandthrough]

I'd question rating his season as good. It was average. Surely 40 goals is needed for good?
Dawes didn't even reach 30.

Let's stop rating him just because he is now linked to us. I can't believe someone even mentioned him in the same league as Tippett.

Tippett was rubbish for much of this year.

I hope we get Dawes. A big burly forward that can take a mark and kick a goal. Sure he makes a few mistakes from time to time but hell we need him.

[Eastdog]

I'd question rating his season as good. It was average. Surely 40 goals is needed for good?
Dawes didn't even reach 30.

Let's stop rating him just because he is now linked to us. I can't believe someone even mentioned him in the same league as Tippett.

Good point Topdog. While players that are connected to us are exciting we shouldn't get our hopes up very time someone is connected as they may not turn out to be that much.

[w3design]

I know i'm in the minority, but I'm in the get Dawes camp.

Although i think pick 21 and 47 is paying overs. I would be happy to part with pick 21 for Dawes.

He's only 24, has proven to be a pretty good player at AFL level for a sustained period and has shown he is a pretty solid 2nd ruckmen, something we are crying out for. Campbell, Cordy, Jones and Grant don't fit any of that criteria.

He's in the age group of players we need. Once our next crop comes through, every premiership side needs experienced players aged 28-31 to compliment the rest of the list.

Having said all that, I won't be too disappointed if we miss out.

I too think Dawes will be good for us and at least give us a target and is still young enough to grow with our young team . But if we don't get i'm not fazed at all.
We have to nail pick 5 &6 thats the key.

[1eyedog]

Tippett was rubbish for much of this year.

I hope we get Dawes. A big burly forward that can take a mark and kick a goal. Sure he makes a few mistakes from time to time but hell we need him.

Any key forward who has played over 50 games and has played around the same amount of games as goals kicked is not worth looking at.

He is a one goal a game player. He is not going to make any difference, Jones will again be put on the back burner in terms of development and we will just bomb it long to Dawes as a get out clause. He is too slow on a lead because he is too heavy and I have visions of him this year leading to the ball with the backman right on his hammer ready to spoil. He rarely marks on a lead due to an issue of pace and when he crashes a pack is just as likely to take out our players out as well.

It will be predictable and frustrating. He is Stewart Loewe who can't mark.

Gee we are a desperate lot aren't we!

[Eastdog]

Any key forward who has played over 50 games and has played a far higher number of games than goals kicked is not worth looking at.

Gee we are a desperate lot aren't we!

We sure are. We are crying out for a key forward but maybe somewhere in the draft will find the next great full forward fingers crossed.

[Topdog]

Tippett was rubbish for much of this year.

I hope we get Dawes. A big burly forward that can take a mark and kick a goal. Sure he makes a few mistakes from time to time but hell we need him.

Yes he was whilst battling concussion. Yet he still outperformed Dawes best EVER year. Smashed it actually. Played 21 times,2 of those cut short by concussion and 1 where he was still clearly affected by it. Yet kicked 9 more goals than Dawes.

So yes I can't believe someone compared Dawes to Tippett

[LostDoggy]

I don't mind if we get Dawes at the right price. There I have said it, I am out of the closet..

[1eyedog]

Hey I don't mind if we get him either but the right price is not 21 and if that's the case he's not going to the Bulldogs.

[1eyedog]

Yes he was whilst battling concussion. Yet he still outperformed Dawes best EVER year. Smashed it actually. Played 21 times,2 of those cut short by concussion and 1 where he was still clearly affected by it. Yet kicked 9 more goals than Dawes.

So yes I can't believe someone compared Dawes to Tippett

Never seen Dawes rip a mark like Tippett can. Tippett is 3 inches taller and quicker as well. Tippet always looks dangerous, Dawes doesn't.

[Throughandthrough]

And tippett is asking for a million a year. Offer the crows griff roughy and wallis and we can have him

[1eyedog]

And tippett is asking for a million a year. Offer the crows griff roughy and wallis and we can have him

Yeah he is def being paid overs no doubt

[Topdog]

And tippett is asking for a million a year. Offer the crows griff roughy and wallis and we can have him

Not really the pointb but yes he will be.
Also not against him coming for pick 41, perhaps 41 & 47

[jeemak]

Unfortunately tall forwards that can play a role cost more than other role players of different type at the trade table.

Pick 21 for Dawes is pretty much spot on, I would think.

[AndrewP6]

Didn't McCartney go on record as saying that we wouldn't be active in the trade period (unless a high quality player was available at the right price). Dawes is a reasonable player but not what I would consider a high quality player. Therefore it appears that there are definitely mixed messages coming from our club in regards to what our strategy is.

Certainly did.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He has to agree to come to us though, right?

Can't see him choosing us over Carlton or Melbourne. We aren't exactly an attractive proposition at the moment. Not many 24 y.o's would be eager to join a club just beginning a lengthy rebuild.

[LongWait]

Unfortunately tall forwards that can play a role cost more than other role players of different type at the trade table.

Pick 21 for Dawes is pretty much spot on, I would think.

Dogwatch has done some interesting research looking at all of the key forwards the club has drafted and tried to develop over the past 20 tears or so. Since Chris Grant, the closest he could get to a success was Simon Cox (second best was Patrick Bowden!!) and I think the maximum number of games played by any of them was 58. 18 attempts, 1 dubious success, 11 fails and 6 still on our list.

If we want a key forward, we will have a much higher chance of getting a 100-gamer by trade or free agency.

[Topdog]

Dogwatch has done some interesting research looking at all of the key forwards the club has drafted and tried to develop. Since Chris Grant, the closest he could get to a success was Simon Cox (second best was Patrick Bowden!!) and I think the maximum number of games played by any of them was less than 60.

If we want a key forward, we will have a much higher chance of getting a 100-gamer by trade or free agency.

Not if that player is Chris Dawes.

[LongWait]

Not if that player is Chris Dawes.

Chris Dawes is a big chance to play another 100 AFL games. He'll almost certainly pass Simon Cox's 58 before he retires. It may not be with us, but I think you are very wrong in your assessment of Dawes. No star, but a very solid key forward and, so far, better than anything we've drafted since Chris Grant.

[jeemak]

Dogwatch has done some interesting research looking at all of the key forwards the club has drafted and tried to develop over the past 20 tears or so. Since Chris Grant, the closest he could get to a success was Simon Cox (second best was Patrick Bowden!!) and I think the maximum number of games played by any of them was 58. 18 attempts, 1 dubious success, 11 fails and 6 still on our list.

If we want a key forward, we will have a much higher chance of getting a 100-gamer by trade or free agency.

One of few regrets I have about not posting on BF these days is missing out on dogwatch's posts.

There's not many top shelf forwards in the AFL, and it shows how hard it is to draft them and turn them into reasonable players.

The game has become so defensive and running oriented that forwards rarely have an opportunity to dominate contests on a one on one basis.

I think what needs to be taken from all of this, is we should be open to trading players in and be prepared to try our hand at top level talent when it presents itself in the draft.

To think we had our most realistic chance of reaching a grand final since 1997 without a genuine forward tall target. A player like Dawes in 2009 would have had a fairly solid impact.

[SonofScray]

To think we had our most realistic chance of reaching a grand final since 1997 without a genuine forward tall target. A player like Dawes in 2009 would have had a fairly solid impact.

I have been thinking about this type of argument a bit. Most of my life as a fan there has been a lot of huff and puff around the quest for a gun FF, or CHF.

It has been an obsession in some ways. Yet, we've looked closer without one than we ever have with the guys we've traded for. You are just not going to get the type of white knight, gun forward we yearn for in a trade. It would almost be unfair to put Dawes through it. It mightn't be you or I jeemak, but a lot of Dog's fans will just expect too much from him. We are impatient with tall forwards. As soon as they are not Chris Grant, or Carey we want to make them backmen, or get rid of them.

[jeemak]

I have been thinking about this type of argument a bit. Most of my life as a fan there has been a lot of huff and puff around the quest for a gun FF, or CHF.

It has been an obsession in some ways. Yet, we've looked closer without one than we ever have with the guys we've traded for. You are just not going to get the type of white knight, gun forward we yearn for in a trade. It would almost be unfair to put Dawes through it. It mightn't be you or I jeemak, but a lot of Dog's fans will just expect too much from him. We are impatient with tall forwards. As soon as they are not Chris Grant, or Carey we want to make them backmen, or get rid of them.

If we land Dawes it will be interesting (or depressing) to see how much expectation is heaped on him by our supporter base, most of whom it seems wouldn't have wanted him in the first place. A dropped mark here, another one there will create mayhem in the stands. The vitriol meter will be working overtime unfortunately.

Unless you get lucky like the Swans and land a player like Tippett through the trade period the reality is most gun forwards stay put and are unnatainable. For the rest of us, we have to settle on players like Dawes to become one of many forward targets.

If we were to land Dawes, I could imagine our forward line being very difficult to deal with on the proviso at least two of Cordy, Jones and Grant develop as we hope.

[Scorlibo]

FF solution: stop playing Jarrad Grant as a flanker, he still has the stickiest hands at the club.

[Topdog]

Chris Dawes is a big chance to play another 100 AFL games. He'll almost certainly pass Simon Cox's 58 before he retires. It may not be with us, but I think you are very wrong in your assessment of Dawes. No star, but a very solid key forward and, so far, better than anything we've drafted since Chris Grant.

Jones will be a better player than him IMO. And I say very confidently that a player that is selected between picks 21 & 27 will be far better than him too. I hope we dont deprive ourselves the opportunity to draft that player

[G-Mo77]

Jones will be a better player than him IMO. And I say very confidently that a player that is selected between picks 21 & 27 will be far better than him too. I hope we dont deprive ourselves the opportunity to draft that player

I'm very comfortable with Jones as well. I can see adding another big body to take a bit of the heat away from him as an advantage though but at what price? If we're just looking for a big body to crash packs then scout the suburban leagues and draft someone very late. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper. Maybe we have that guy in Redpath who is likely to be retained (big stretch)

I've warmed a little on getting Dawes, I'll admit that. Still I'd be happier if he chose Melbourne or Carlton. The Doggies have been on and on about building from within and drafting so I'd rather they continue that way.

[gohardorgohome]

I think that the Western Bulldogs should only recruit players who are deemed to be potential premiership players when our next window may open up in 2016+.

Collingwood would consider themselves as premiership potential next year and Dawes is not in their plans...

He is no Brad Ottens. I would not pay overs for him.

Wait till the Victorian Gold Coast and GWS young quality talls come out of contract.

I don't care if we don't win many games next year. The only thing that counts is getting the younger players going about it the right way.

[chef]

Emma Quayle: Lions chase Dawes.

[Mantis]

Emma Quayle: Lions chase Dawes.

The Lions list manager Robbie Kerr was on the radio the other night and said they were on the look out for a 'big' forward so it's no surprise from that to hear them being linked to Dawes.

They have cap space as well now they have Fev out of the system.

[Twodogs]

Emma Quayle: Lions chase Dawes.



Go, Vossy, go!!!

[Topdog]

Go, Vossy, go!!!

haha exactly.

[LongWait]

I'm not hell bent on us getting Dawes by any means but I think that some of the assessments of him that are made by our supporters are unrealistic and way too pessimistic. I'd like some objectivity to the discussion but I understand we can't, and don't want to, all have the same views on everything.

I really don't care too much whether or not we get Dawes unless the club really, really wants him and we miss out. I'm hoping that we don't overpay but I'm fairly sure that we will know what our walk away price is and that we'll stick to it.

I find it interesting that at least 4 clubs have joined the chase for Dawes - that doesn't sound to me like Dawes really is the pathetic spud that some are painting him to be.

[Hotdog60]

Reports are if we miss Dawes we may go after Gumbleton.

[always right]

I'm not hell bent on us getting Dawes by any means but I think that some of the assessments of him that are made by our supporters are unrealistic and way too pessimistic. I'd like some objectivity to the discussion but I understand we can't, and don't want to, all have the same views on everything.

I really don't care too much whether or not we get Dawes unless the club really, really wants him and we miss out. I'm hoping that we don't overpay but I'm fairly sure that we will know what our walk away price is and that we'll stick to it.

I find it interesting that at least 4 clubs have joined the chase for Dawes - that doesn't sound to me like Dawes really is the pathetic spud that some are painting him to be.

I don't think he's a spud but I don't want to pay overs. He's not worth losing two draft picks over.....unless they are later draft picks. If we give Collingwood pick 21 I'm kind of of okay with that but if we offer 47 up as well, I would want to get a draft pick back from Collingwood.

[LongWait]

I don't think he's a spud but I don't want to pay overs. He's not worth losing two draft picks over.....unless they are later draft picks. If we give Collingwood pick 21 I'm kind of of okay with that but if we offer 47 up as well, I would want to get a draft pick back from Collingwood.

I agree - to me the answer to the Dawes question lies in the price paid.