Koby Stevens - Welcome to the dogs

[bornadog]

Pick 44 plus a swap of later pick.

Age: 21yr 4mth Games: 11 Born: June 18, 1991
Height: 187cm Weight: 83kg Position: Midfield
Last Drafted: Round 2, Pick #23 2009 National Draft

[azabob]

Pick 44 plus a swap of later pick.

Age: 21yr 4mth Games: 11 Born: June 18, 1991
Height: 187cm Weight: 83kg Position: Midfield
Last Drafted: Round 2, Pick #23 2009 National Draft

Welcome Koby.

(The good old swap of pick later that will never happen).

[LostDoggy]

So Lake and 27 for Stevens and 21 and a late swap of picks we may never use.

[LostDoggy]

Welcome Koby. Glad it didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Guess the little WB site advertisement of "6 inside 51" in relation to picks might have to be taken down ;)

[F'scary]

This is favourable news.

Because he is a long-standing comrade-at-arms with Clay_Smith, we will have two invincible warriors of steel who will back each other to the death in the toughest hand-to-hand combat situations in the midfield trench warfare. We will be unconquerable with this combination.

[WB4Life]

This is favourable news.

Because he is a long-standing comrade-at-arms with Clay_Smith, we will have two invincible warriors of steel who will back each other to the death in the toughest hand-to-hand combat situations in the midfield trench warfare. We will be unconquerable with this combination.

and will get some cheap pies for the boys...

[WB4Life]

In all seriousness, hope he can flourish as part on the western front... look forward to seeing him in the hoops.

was worth the punt at 44.

[F'scary]

and will get some cheap pies for the boys...

the food of warriors.

[Doc26]

So Lake and 27 for Stevens and 21 and a late swap of picks we may never use.

Nah. I've become more pragmatic about this.

My spin on your comparison. Koby and 21, for 27 plus a whole lotta cash freed up, for someone that no longer wanted to be with us and who wouldn't play anymore than ~20 games with us given his body and mind held up for one more season with us.

Welcome aboard Koby.

[bornadog]

Koby had offers from Essendon and the Saints but chose the Dogs - nice one.:)

[Mofra]

Koby had offers from Essendon and the Saints but chose the Dogs - nice one.:)
Doesn't want to train out in the old Zone 3 areas of Melbourne, and prefers to play for a team that suits his style of play.

At least we know his decision making is top notch :D

[bornadog]

Doesn't want to train out in the old Zone 3 areas of Melbourne, and prefers to play for a team that suits his style of play.

At least we know his decision making is top notch :D

Apparently will head with the team to London next week, so right into it.

[always right]

Doesn't want to train out in the old Zone 3 areas of Melbourne, and prefers to play for a team that suits his style of play.

At least we know his decision making is top notch :D

And clearly someone focused on the big picture rather than short term goals;)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Seems to be suggestions that no later picks are involved.

Stevens for #44 is good, anyway.

[Remi Moses]

So Lake and 27 for Stevens and 21 and a late swap of picks we may never use.

It's a bit deeper than that.
Lake would have walked in 2013.
We'd be coughing up 500 for a guy who doesn't want to be here.
We'd get bugger all Compo.

[bornadog]

Seems to be suggestions that no later picks are involved.

Stevens for #44 is good, anyway.

We have a down grade of a later pick, but no details yet.

[Topdog]

I'd have prepared 51 but it's not a big deal. Welcome to the kennel Koby! Finally happy with a move we made this trade period

[bornadog]

Video highlights

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/bulldogs%20tv/tabid/8663/contentid/499316/default.aspx

[always right]

Like the extra pick we were gonna get from Sydney in the Vezpremi deal?

You appear to be living in a very very dark place Chops. Reach out to your Bulldog brethren and we will be there for you.

[LostDoggy]

You appear to be living in a very very dark place Chops. Reach out to your Bulldog brethren and we will be there for you.

Insert smirk with snort from Hobdog:D

[Bulldog4life]

You appear to be living in a very very dark place Chops. Reach out to your Bulldog brethren and we will be there for you.

Gave me a chuckle.:D

[Eastdog]

Welcome Koby. Hope everything goes well for you at our club and you establish yourself as a very good midfielder for our team.

[w3design]

Video highlights

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/bulldogs%20tv/tabid/8663/contentid/499316/default.aspx

His run on the HFF, reminded me of Leon Cameron.

[SlimPickens]

Happy with this signing best of luck to Koby. Here's hoping for a longer successful career down at the kennel

[turtle]

Good luck Koby!
What I like most about this trade is that it is consistent with the clubs strategy (whether its the correct strategy or not is another discussion) Unlike the Dee's who seem to be interested in everyone we seem determined to stay on the path that has been set. I hope we don't do anything stupid in the last hour on Friday!

[Grantysghost]

Some good quotes in this article - "Hard as a cats head" made me laugh. Think we've done well getting him across.

Koby Stevens ideal recruit for WB (http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/koby-stevens-the-ideal-recruit-for-the-western-bulldogs/story-fnfll94y-1226502413962)

[1eyedog]

Goes back with the flight and smashed Hayes with a beaut tackle. Good size and committed.

[Sedat]

You appear to be living in a very very dark place Chops. Reach out to your Bulldog brethren and we will be there for you.
Chops makes a good point. Stevens cost us a higher pick than what we wanted to initially outlay. West Coke stood their ground (on an uncontracted player mind you) and once again we caved.

Add to that the instances where we have been promised additional picks in previous deals (Hall and Vesz) which never materialised. We are officially the easybeats of trade week negotiations. That's not to suggest we shouldn't have gone after Stevens, and I hope he has a sensational career at the kennel.

[jeemak]

It's funny that we always bemoan particular clubs for being pricks to deal with and not giving any ground towards what would be reasonable compensation within deals, yet we want our club to behave in a similar manner in pretty much every case.

44 seems like a reasonable outcome to me, though it all depends on whether 51 lands us the player we have in our sights at that point of the draft.

We need to close out the deal as well, which means ensuring we receive the picks we're entitled to.

[FrediKanoute]

Chops makes a good point. Stevens cost us a higher pick than what we wanted to initially outlay. West Coke stood their ground (on an uncontracted player mind you) and once again we caved.

Add to that the instances where we have been promised additional picks in previous deals (Hall and Vesz) which never materialised. We are officially the easybeats of trade week negotiations. That's not to suggest we shouldn't have gone after Stevens, and I hope he has a sensational career at the kennel.

Negotiation though is an art not a science, especially in the AFL where you are re-negotiating with same people every year. It pays not to screw your opponents to the wall and sometimes compromise. When you negotiate you should never lose sight of what you are trying to achieve. In our case we wanted Stevens. We identified him as a fit. The price of missing Stevens to screw the WCE over companred to dropping 7 places in the draft is probably not that material. Hopefully Stevens will be a better player than anyone we could have taken at 44.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Negotiation though is an art not a science, especially in the AFL where you are re-negotiating with same people every year.

I heard a comment from someone at Essendon who admitted they had earnt a reputation of being difficult and it had got to a point where some clubs didn't bother even talking to them so Essendon were deliberately working towards improving their reputation.

[ledge]

Chops makes a good point. Stevens cost us a higher pick than what we wanted to initially outlay. West Coke stood their ground (on an uncontracted player mind you) and once again we caved.

Add to that the instances where we have been promised additional picks in previous deals (Hall and Vesz) which never materialised. We are officially the easybeats of trade week negotiations. That's not to suggest we shouldn't have gone after Stevens, and I hope he has a sensational career at the kennel.

Problem with chops is that it's the previous coach and list manager that did that. He hasn't given these two a chance and has written them off already, Koby seems a good pick up to me at 44 anyway.

[GVGjr]

Chops makes a good point. Stevens cost us a higher pick than what we wanted to initially outlay. West Coke stood their ground (on an uncontracted player mind you) and once again we caved.

Add to that the instances where we have been promised additional picks in previous deals (Hall and Vesz) which never materialised. We are officially the easybeats of trade week negotiations. That's not to suggest we shouldn't have gone after Stevens, and I hope he has a sensational career at the kennel.

There are lessons to be learned from the past but we shouldn't still be living there.
The Hall and Veszpremi trades were with a different coach and a different list manager and shouldn't even be a consideration for the trade we have just completed.

Stevens for 44 instead of our original offer of 51 doesn't mean anyone made an error.

The coach and new list manager need to measured on how this deal turns out and we won't know that for a while but I have to say I think this is an excellent deal for us.

[ledge]

Trading is bartering you offer the least and they ask for the most but you come to a compromise, obviously the offer was 51 in hope but we obviously had 44 as acceptable too and deal was done.
Macca pointed out the criteria for picking players and koby obviously met the criteria at 44 or we wouldn't have taken him, From what I took out of meeting once a club asks for more than we think he is worth we walk.

[AndrewP6]

Dunno a thing about him, but good luck to the lad. Hope he cracks in! ;)

[LostDoggy]

He will be first picked for my Supercoach team next year :D

[LongWait]

Dunno a thing about him, but good luck to the lad. Hope he cracks in! ;)

Better than a team full of these:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/TraderZer0/downhillskier.jpg

[G-Mo77]

Happy it was finally settled. From what I hear we've got a steal with #44. Nice little connection there with Clay Smith as well. Should be a nice combination as they grow together.

[always right]

Chops makes a good point. Stevens cost us a higher pick than what we wanted to initially outlay. West Coke stood their ground (on an uncontracted player mind you) and once again we caved.

Add to that the instances where we have been promised additional picks in previous deals (Hall and Vesz) which never materialised. We are officially the easybeats of trade week negotiations. That's not to suggest we shouldn't have gone after Stevens, and I hope he has a sensational career at the kennel.

I never said he didn't make a good point but my comment and offer to him still stands.

[The Underdog]

Chops makes a good point. Stevens cost us a higher pick than what we wanted to initially outlay. West Coke stood their ground (on an uncontracted player mind you) and once again we caved.



Let's reconvene in 5 years and see how big a concession this was and whether it was worth it...deal?

[Bulldog4life]

Little difference in results between a team of downhill skiers and a team where everyone cracks-in.

You and Andrew are so predictable Chops.

[GVGjr]

Guys, lets get back on track please.

[AndrewP6]

You and Andrew are so predictable Chops.

So a little joke is off limits now? I'll try to make comments that will leave people guessing from here on.

[Bulldog4life]

So a little joke is off limits now? I'll try to make comments that will leave people guessing from here on.

No a joke is fine Andrew but your constant veiled criticism of our Coach is wearing thin. Now back to the thread.

[AndrewP6]

No a joke is fine Andrew but your constant veiled criticism of our Coach is wearing thin.
This a forum for opinions.

Now back to the thread.
On that we can agree.

[LongWait]

Little difference in results between a team of downhill skiers and a team where everyone cracks-in.

What poor impulse control you must have Chops - you just can't help but respond to any remotely positive contribution.

I like the sound of Koby Stevens and I like that we will have a team which will value contested football and playing for each other above everything else.

[stefoid]

Let's reconvene in 5 years and see how big a concession this was and whether it was worth it...deal?

Lake trade will depend on how pick 22 and Stevens turn out.

[Sedat]

Lake trade will depend on how pick 22 and Stevens turn out.
This. We've essentially swapped a champion of the club and AA key defender for an unproven inside midfielder onto our list for a 6 spot upgrade in the 2nd round. Furthermore the AA defender was under contract (and theoretically more difficult to budge) and the unproven midfielder was out of contract.

I'll say it again...the trading out of Lake and the trading in of Stevens are both fine in principal - no issues at all. But to end up basically swapping one for the other on our list is dreadful negotiating on our behalf. We have no spine or backbone when it comes to the trade table - one minute we were not backing down from pick 51 and lo and behold we acquiesce. With the Lake trade we basically took Hawthorn's first offer without blinking.

And further to Jeemak's comment about being a good trading team, there will be no fear of clubs not wanting to trade with us. On the contrary, there's a list of clubs 17 deep that are lining up to trade with us.

[ledge]

This. We've essentially swapped a champion of the club and AA key defender for an unproven inside midfielder onto our list for a 6 spot upgrade in the 2nd round. Furthermore the AA defender was under contract (and theoretically more difficult to budge) and the unproven midfielder was out of contract.

I'll say it again...the trading out of Lake and the trading in of Stevens are both fine in principal - no issues at all. But to end up basically swapping one for the other on our list is dreadful negotiating on our behalf. We have no spine or backbone when it comes to the trade table - we were not backing down from pick 51 and lo and behold we acquiesce. With the Lake trade we basically took Hawthorn's first offer without blinking.

And further to Jeemak's comment about being a good trading team, there will be no fear of clubs not wanting to trade with us. On the contrary, there's a list of clubs 17 deep that are lining up to trade with us.

You forgot to add an AA fullback with injury problems and one year left then would walk away as a free agent, no one doubts he was great for us but moving foreword reality is he had one year to go and he was gone, at least we got something for him and Koby plus whoever we get at 22 is going to play a lot more games than Lake will in the future.

[GVGjr]

I'm not 100% certain how Stevens will go with our side but from what I remember of him as a junior and what I have seen of him with his time at West Coast he will give it his all. I think this will be a winner for us.
Pace and toughness will be a welcome addition to the side as we eventually say goodbye to the likes of Cross etc.

We have come the full circle with our recruiting. For years we focused on talented but laconic types like Grant, Everitt, Boumann and Hill that either frustrated or delighted our supporters depending on how they played but Grant aside they are now gone from the list.
I could probably add that we also traded for the likes of Sherman and DJ who weren't the most intense guys.

The focus has suddenly now moved towards tougher players with a greater intensity and yet some people don't think that is necessarily a good move.

I think we need a blend of toughness and skill and if I follow the old saying of drafting for talent and trading for needs then I don't think the recruitment of Stevens is a bad thing.

I can recall a time when people would heap praise on Ward for being as tough as a cats head but now it's seems we don't appreciate that quality quite as much.

Stevens is maybe seen as a 50/50 chance to make it but I don't see why some aren't too happy to give him a chance.

I like the idea of recruiting a player who's prepared to 'come to work every day'. Time will tell if it works out but I think it will.

[bornadog]

I'm not 100% certain how Stevens will go with our side but from what I remember of him as a junior and what I have seen of him with his time at West Coast he will give it his all. I think this will be a winner for us.
Pace and toughness will be a welcome addition to the side as we eventually say goodbye to the likes of Cross etc.

We have come the full circle with our recruiting. For years we focused on talented but laconic types like Grant, Everitt, Boumann and Hill that either frustrated or delighted our supporters depending on how they played but Grant aside they are now gone from the list.
I could probably add that we also traded for the likes of Sherman and DJ who weren't the most intense guys.

The focus has suddenly now moved towards tougher players with a greater intensity and yet some people don't think that is necessarily a good move.

I think we need a blend of toughness and skill and if I follow the old saying of drafting for talent and trading for needs then I don't think the recruitment of Stevens is a bad thing.

I can recall a time when people would heap praise on Ward for being as tough as a cats head but now it's seems we don't appreciate that quality quite as much.

Stevens is maybe seen as a 50/50 chance to make it but I don't see why some aren't too happy to give him a chance.

I like the idea of recruiting a player who's prepared to 'come to work every day'. Time will tell if it works out but I think it will.

Good Post GVGjr.

I wonder who is tougher Clay or Koby:p

These guys will really work well together along with Libba, Wallis, Dahl we have some skill, and pace to go along with the tougness in the midfield. As you said previously if we can add some more pace with the first round picks, the future will be bright.

[Sedat]

The focus has suddenly now moved towards tougher players with a greater intensity and yet some people don't think that is necessarily a good move.

I think we need a blend of toughness and skill and if I follow the old saying of drafting for talent and trading for needs then I don't think the recruitment of Stevens is a bad thing.
Agree with this - although I haven't seen much of Stevens the word of many respected posters here suggest that he is well worth the punt.

[GVGjr]

I wonder who is tougher Clay or Koby:p

These guys will really work well together along with Libba, Wallis, Dahl we have some skill, and pace to go along with the tougness in the midfield. As you said previously if we can add some more pace with the first round picks, the future will be bright.

Why speculate when the opposition players can decide that for us ;)

I think the list has been taking shape over the last two seasons as we have moved away on our reliance on trading for senior players to top up. Also remember that on top of Wallis, Liberatore, Dahlhaus and Smith we did very well with the likes of Dickson.

Stevens can hopefully establish himself as a player that can fill a few positions for us.

[Sedat]

You forgot to add an AA fullback with injury problems and one year left then would walk away as a free agent, no one doubts he was great for us but moving foreword reality is he had one year to go and he was gone, at least we got something for him and Koby plus whoever we get at 22 is going to play a lot more games than Lake will in the future.
And you forgot to include whoever Hawthorn select at pick 28, seeing as we lost that pick during the trade period. Also how can you possibly make the assumption that pick 22 will automatically play more games than Lake will at Hawthorn? We might end up selecting another Jesse Wells at pick 22 like we did in 2002.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

And you forgot to include whoever Hawthorn select at pick 28, seeing as we lost that pick during the trade period. Also how can you possibly make the assumption that pick 22 will automatically play more games than Lake will at Hawthorn? We might end up selecting another Jesse Wells at pick 22 like we did in 2002.

Don't remind us :o

[jeemak]

And you forgot to include whoever Hawthorn select at pick 28, seeing as we lost that pick during the trade period. Also how can you possibly make the assumption that pick 22 will automatically play more games than Lake will at Hawthorn? We might end up selecting another Jesse Wells at pick 22 like we did in 2002.

Didn't we lose the pick what is now 28, and gain pick 44, while actually trading Lake for pick 22? I suppose it's easy to look at dispensing of Lake for just a pick upgrade, but that's not really being fair.

So the club decided that it needed to downgrade what was then a second rounder, and gain what was then a first rounder for Lake. In the meantime it's spent a considerable period of time attempting to lure players with the picks that were a by bi-product of the initial Lake trade, finally landing Stevens with the downgraded pick.

How much of a hand would we have had to play throughout the trade period to fill gaps on our list if all we had was pick 28 up our sleeve and Lake still on our list at deaths door? Could an alternative outcome have been that we held on to Lake waiting for Hawthorn to cave, we might not have been in a position to trade for players like Gumbleton and Dawes, ultimately paying overs for the former or Koby Stevens because we didn't attain a mid-range pick?

I could just imagine the venom on this board if we had have given up 28 for one of Gumbleton or Stevens, and ended up offloading Lake for a lesser pick than we received for him early on because we always knew he wanted to leave us. That level of venom would have been amplified if we had have kept Lake for one more year because he was contracted and didn't get exactly what we wanted, only to lose him for nothing when he becomes a free agent.

When I look at your examples on individual trades I find it hard to disagree with what you're saying, though when I look at our position and imagine our potential list management and trade period strategies in an holistic way I tend not to take the same hard line.

We could easily have sat around trying to keep opposition clubs honest and squeeze as much as we could out of them, though that might have ultimately hampered our ability to improve our list across the three week period (which is painfully longer than it needs to be, mind you).

[Remi Moses]

Brian's a former AA full back.
He wanted to go and was on big coin.
Some on here would be shouting from the roof tops with the shafting we'd get with the FA Compo. Obviously Hawthorn or ourselves didn't want Brian's salary, so reading between the lines we gave them 27.

[jeemak]

Brian's a former AA full back.
He wanted to go and was on big coin.
Some on here would be shouting from the roof tops with the shafting we'd get with the FA Compo. Obviously Hawthorn or ourselves didn't want Brian's salary, so reading between the lines we gave them 27.

They actually gave us what was 21 at the time. We downgraded 27 to 41 which turned into Stevens.

As Sedat has said earlier, the ultimate value of the exchange will be seen when we allocate what was 21 and is now 22 to a draft pick, and how Hawthorn use what was 27 and is now 28.

[GVGjr]

Guys, lets get back on track please.

I've cleaned off a couple of posts that aren't in line with the thread title.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I quite like the idea of adding Stevens. Physically he looks ready to go, and ready to play immediately and it seems as if he is going to give it his best shot.

Im anxious to add more run and foot skills to the team but I recognise that Stevens is worth a shot.

Sometimes a friendship/connection with another player can drive a player to great heights. We only have to look at classic bulldog combos of Smith and Johnson, and particular Boyd and Cross who have propelled each other to higher levels through their drive and determination.

Im hoping Clay and Koby can work their backsides off to become another great Bulldog combo, as I am with Libba and Wallis

[Maddog37]

I like the idea of having guys like Clay, Libba, Mitch, Koby, Lin, Dal etc that train very hard and raise the level of competitiveness on the track which will flow through into matches.

I went to one training session last year and the main memory I have is watching Clay take on the older guys in the wrestling drills and coming out on top. If you have a few blokes all trying to best each other at all times then it breeds a combative, hard edged unit.

Imagine two groups doing competitive work, in one group is J Grant, Vez, Coons and Sherman. In the other is Lin, Clay, Mitch and Libba. Which group is more talented? which group wins?

Koby ticks all the boxes in regards to age and playing style that the coach wants. Lets just hope he can play consistently at AFL level.

[whythelongface]

Welcome to the kennel Koby. Looking forward to seeing you don the Red, White and Blue and being part of a very bright future for our club.

[Maddog37]

This. We've essentially swapped a champion of the club and AA key defender for an unproven inside midfielder onto our list for a 6 spot upgrade in the 2nd round. Furthermore the AA defender was under contract (and theoretically more difficult to budge) and the unproven midfielder was out of contract.

I'll say it again...the trading out of Lake and the trading in of Stevens are both fine in principal - no issues at all. But to end up basically swapping one for the other on our list is dreadful negotiating on our behalf. We have no spine or backbone when it comes to the trade table - one minute we were not backing down from pick 51 and lo and behold we acquiesce. With the Lake trade we basically took Hawthorn's first offer without blinking.

And further to Jeemak's comment about being a good trading team, there will be no fear of clubs not wanting to trade with us. On the contrary, there's a list of clubs 17 deep that are lining up to trade with us.

This bolded part is simplistic and completely ignores his age, health, the state of our list and where he fits into the new coachs assessment grid.

If you use this rationale, we got rid of a three time premiership, multiple All Australian and Brownlaw medallist for nothing when we booted Aker.

[Topdog]

spin it any way you like he was worth more than an upgrade of 6 picks and pick 41 (now 44)

[Sedat]

This bolded part is simplistic and completely ignores his age, health, the state of our list and where he fits into the new coachs assessment grid.

If you use this rationale, we got rid of a three time premiership, multiple All Australian and Brownlaw medallist for nothing when we booted Aker.
Akermanis wasn't under contract, and he also wasn't getting a kick. Lake was under contract, heavily courted by Hawthorn, and he played several fine games in 2012 (he did tail off towards the end of the season to be fair). Chalk and cheese.

Anyway I've made my point on our negotiating shortfalls - good luck to Koby, I hope he has a terrific career at the kennel.

[azabob]

Pick 44 plus a swap of later pick.



Interestingly Patrick Keane from the AFL has reported via twitter there is no swap of a later pick.

[bornadog]

Interestingly Patrick Keane from the AFL has reported via twitter there is no swap of a later pick.

Thats what was reported yesterday, who knows

[azabob]

Thats what was reported yesterday, who knows

Exactly, so many media sources these days, hard to sepereate fact from fiction.

[bornadog]

Exactly, so many media sources these days, hard to sepereate fact from fiction.

Ok, on the trade tracker, AFL site the official trade is just pick 44

Link (http://www.afl.com.au/trade/tabid/15020/default.aspx)

[jeemak]

So you were right in that we wouldn't end up retrieving a late draft pick that was never put on the table?

Well, I suppose when you're right, you're right.

[always right]

Maybe because I was right in this instance.
A dark place? What do you call 4th last and more of the same expected?

Lighten up Chops.:)

[The Underdog]

We're not going to use a pick after 51 for anything other than upgrading rookies, it doesn't matter. Stevens for pick 44 is a perfectly acceptable trade.

[F'scary]

We're not going to use a pick after 51 for anything other than upgrading rookies, it doesn't matter. Stevens for pick 44 is a perfectly acceptable trade.

KO Korby has the right physical dimensions. The same with this Young they have got for pick 71. I think I can see where Sir Paul is headed. He wants a big, physical team that will crush the opposition with outstanding displays of sheer brute force.

[westdog54]

Maybe because I was right in this instance.
A dark place? What do you call 4th last and more of the same expected?

I call it rebuilding.

I call it allowing a young inexperienced team to grow into an older, experienced team.

I call it short term pain for long term gain.

I call it giving the new powers that be a chance before brazenly writing them off.

I can continue if you wish.

[Twodogs]

I call it not being very good.
I can continue as well.


We know.


It's cyclical. It's the nature of things. I'm not 100% onbord with everything we've done lately but the last few weeks have given me a bit of confidence that we may get the next few weeks right. And what we do over the next few weeks is going to be vitally important. If we get next few weeks right then the pain we've felt over the last 18 months might be worthwile.

[westdog54]

I call it not being very good.
I can continue as well.

Is that what you called it in 2007?

[Sedat]

Is that what you called it in 2007?
We were 9-6 at one stage in 2007 and travelling well enough, although the list was shot from an injury perspective for the last 6 weeks of that season. And we did get to 13-1-1 the very next season when most of these players came back from injury and had full pre-seasons.

[Maddog37]

We were always gonnabottom out after hanging onto old blokes too long. Cooneys knee hurts and we ave had a change of coach too.

I really do not know what else is expected.

[bornadog]

We were 9-6 at one stage in 2007 and travelling well enough, although the list was shot from an injury perspective for the last 6 weeks of that season. And we did get to 13-1-1 the very next season when most of these players came back from injury and had full pre-seasons.

but, we had some big thrashings in those last games in 2007. The closes we got was a draw with the Saints, the rest were similar to this year, ie 10 plus goals schalckings. You may blame injuries and we played lots of youngsters, but guess what, thats what we have played all this year, especially in the second half.

No one called for Rockets head in 2007 like they have this year with Macca.

[Sedat]

No one called for Rockets head in 2007 like they have this year with Macca.
Ummm, Smorgon nearly sacked Rocket after the 'exhaustive review' at the end of 2007. Smart move that would have been.

[bornadog]

Ummm, Smorgon nearly sacked Rocket after the 'exhaustive review' at the end of 2007. Smart move that would have been.

I guess I was talking about the fans and on WOOF;)

[Topdog]

We know.


It's cyclical. It's the nature of things. I'm not 100% onbord with everything we've done lately but the last few weeks have given me a bit of confidence that we may get the next few weeks right. And what we do over the next few weeks is going to be vitally important. If we get next few weeks right then the pain we've felt over the last 18 months might be worthwile.

agree 100% with that. Last few weeks has given me some confidence.

[LostDoggy]

No cos I knew we would be better in 2008 and we were. Do you think we will be better, worse or the same in 2013?

I'm going with slightly better in 2013

[Hotdog60]

I'm going with slightly better in 2013

So would I, maybe with another preseason into the kids and some more games under the belt who knows. We need something up forward to happen though.

[ledge]

All I can say is everything macca has said he will do he has done, concentrated on getting the ball and also getting players who train hard and want to go in hard.
He has from the start said we need good players in and out of the club, he has definitely started cleaning out some he doesn't think fit the criteria and you can only get rid of so many a year.
He has said he will get young kids in and bring them up together, this seems so too with the age of players he is bringing in .
He has also said be patient let the kids grow together.
I am willing to be patient of it means success and from what I see we are definitely following a plan.

[LostDoggy]

Agree, absolutely, Ledge. My only regret is that we didn't get Martin. I think that would have really set us up, if all the talk about this player was to be believed.

I totally agree with getting players of the highest character, those who lift when the side is in trouble, those who sacrifice their own game to play a role, those willing to learn and be part of a hardened group growing together so they know each's game inside out, those who show real leadership ability. It's where we have to start and where we build a real unit of contested hard at freaks.

If Lake or Sherman couldn't or wouldn't sacrifice for us, then I'm happy they are gone.....no matter how good they turn out to be in 2013-2014.