Melbourne FC. Tanks for the memories.

[Ghost Dog]

Tanking affair: AFL to lift the lid on Melbourne's 'vault'
DateOctober 30, 2012 - 2:53PM 318
Caroline Wilson


THE AFL has uncovered a secret meeting involving at least 10 members of the Melbourne football department in which coaches were reminded of the importance of forfeiting matches in order to gain early draft picks.

Former Melbourne football boss Chris Connolly addressed the 2009 meeting which The Age understands was code-named 'the vault'.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tanking-affair-afl-to-lift-the-lid-on-melbournes-vault-20121030-28h3c.html#ixzz2AkrBuP96

Is anyone surprised this is all going to start coming out?

[Sockeye Salmon]

The AFL's bullshit attitude to anything negative is my single biggest annoyance in football.

Tanking doesn't exist
There are no drugs in football
GWS did not speak to Phil Davis before the end of the season
No-one cheats the salary cap

The AFL deserve all they get

[jeemak]

^I love how Vlad mentions the AFL's no tolerance approach to anything that compromises the integrity of the game, such as tanking, gambling, drugs etc......then conveniently omits the most damaging, the AFL created unfair fixture!

If it wasn't for the Bulldogs I would have NO interest in the AFL whatsoever. They're a pantomime of themselves.

[Sedat]

The AFL's bullshit attitude to anything negative is my single biggest annoyance in football.

Tanking doesn't exist
There are no drugs in football
GWS did not speak to Phil Davis before the end of the season
No-one cheats the salary cap

The AFL deserve all they get
This. But you know what, Melbourne will get the book thrown at them because they've now been proven to have made Vlad sound like the fool that he is for arrogantly dismissing the notion that tanking occurs - even though tanking has been fostered by the AFL's own rules. Fool Vlad in public and you will suffer his wrath. Also he doesn't dare want to be subjected to legal action from the betting agencies so he will bash up an easy target ie: Melbourne in order to protect the millions pouring in from the betting agencies via sponsorship/signage.

Good luck trying to take Collingwood on and prove that they tanked in 2004 in order to get Thomas and Pendlebury - there was one match late that season where they were 4 goals up against North with 5 minutes to go that they somehow lost - Melbourne a much softer target :rolleyes:

[anfo27]

I have to say i'm quite shocked after reading that article. When it was announced the AFL was going to investigate this I just thought they would do half assed job & uncover nothing. Then a smug Vlad will come out and announce that tanking doesn't exist & their investigation proves that.

After reading that article it looks like they are in deep poop. Take Hogan off them & give him to us.

[Grantysghost]

This. But you know what, Melbourne will get the book thrown at them because they've now been proven to have made Vlad sound like the fool that he is for arrogantly dismissing the notion that tanking occurs - even though tanking has been fostered by the AFL's own rules. Fool Vlad in public and you will suffer his wrath. Also he doesn't dare want to be subjected to legal action from the betting agencies so he will bash up an easy target ie: Melbourne in order to protect the millions pouring in from the betting agencies via sponsorship/signage.

Good luck trying to take Collingwood on and prove that they tanked in 2004 in order to get Thomas and Pendlebury - there was one match late that season where they were 4 goals up against North with 5 minutes to go that they somehow lost - Melbourne a much softer target :rolleyes:

Totally agree - difference is they have "evidence" implicating Melbourne in deliberately manipulating the outcome of games from none other than the coach at the time and a senior player in Mclean (and apparently others). Ironically for Melbourne phase 1 of the plan (the tanking) went well but they f'ed up phase 2 (the drafting) so they look like fools all around.
Won't young Brock be popular down at, ah, erm, well wherever Melbourne are based.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Pity all this could not have been finalised prior to trade week, I figure the AFL sanctions may've precluded them from participating in the Mini draft, in which case GC would've had no reason not to make them bid pick 3 on Viney.

[Remi Moses]

Hopefully they lose pick 4

[LongWait]

Hopefully they lose pick 4

If so, Wines would possibly be available at our first pick. My money would be on us taking him - we couldn't resist.

[Mantis]

If so, Wines would possibly be available at our first pick. My money would be on us taking him - we couldn't resist.

Yep.

He is exactly the type of player we would chose if we had the opportunity.

[LongWait]

Yep.

He is exactly the type of player we would chose if we had the opportunity.

Agreed. Wines ticks the coaches' boxes like few others in this draft. He would be a reasonably controversial selection for us.

If we chose Wines and Stringer I'm guessing a few on here might be upset.

[jeemak]

From what I've seen of Wines' footage I'd be pretty happy to get him. He doesn't tick the box of being an outside user exclusively, though he can win the ball and be creative with it and his foot skills seem pretty good to me. I'm sure if asked to play a more outside role he could adapt.

[wimberga]

Happy to get Wines also - seems an aboslute gun!

[Dry Rot]

Hasn't the AFL been investigating this for a while?

Maybe Melbourne feared draft pick sanctions, and hence all their trading picks for some ordinary players.

[Remi Moses]

Hasn't the AFL been investigating this for a while?

Maybe Melbourne feared draft pick sanctions, and hence all their trading picks for some ordinary players.

Bingo! We have a winner.
I think Neeld's read and watched "Moneyball" to often.

[Remi Moses]

^I love how Vlad mentions the AFL's no tolerance approach to anything that compromises the integrity of the game, such as tanking, gambling, drugs etc......then conveniently omits the most damaging, the AFL created unfair fixture!

If it wasn't for the Bulldogs I would have NO interest in the AFL whatsoever. They're a pantomime of themselves.

True. What sport in the world has a compromised Scheldue like the AFL?
Absolute farce

[Remi Moses]

Tanking affair: AFL to lift the lid on Melbourne's 'vault'
DateOctober 30, 2012 - 2:53PM 318
Caroline Wilson


THE AFL has uncovered a secret meeting involving at least 10 members of the Melbourne football department in which coaches were reminded of the importance of forfeiting matches in order to gain early draft picks.

Former Melbourne football boss Chris Connolly addressed the 2009 meeting which The Age understands was code-named 'the vault'.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tanking-affair-afl-to-lift-the-lid-on-melbournes-vault-20121030-28h3c.html#ixzz2AkrBuP96

Is anyone surprised this is all going to start coming out?
Amazing how The Age has trumped the H/S again on a major story!
The Tippett saga revealed by Emma Quayle.

[GVGjr]

^I love how Vlad mentions the AFL's no tolerance approach to anything that compromises the integrity of the game, such as tanking, gambling, drugs etc......then conveniently omits the most damaging, the AFL created unfair fixture!



If they get sanctions it needs to be for first round draft picks. They should lose pick 4 this year and their first round pick and probably their 2nd pick for next season as a minimum.

This limits their ability to trade for players

A fine and a percentage reduction in the salary cap is also required.

The deals with Hogan and Viney might be void now.

Would we use pick 6 on Viney?

[Throughandthrough]

I wish the article was titled "Adelaide Crows embroiled in tanking strategy dramas as Assistant Coach Dean Bailey is investigated for......"

[ledge]

If they get sanctions it needs to be for first round draft picks. They should lose pick 4 this year and their first round pick and probably their 2nd pick for next season as a minimum.

This limits their ability to trade for players

A fine and a percentage reduction in the salary cap is also required.

The deals with Hogan and Viney might be void now.

Would we use pick 6 on Viney?

Wouldn't losing viney upset the Apple cart all that work leading up to taking him and him and his dad expecting to be at melbourne, wonder if we would take him
, not sure he would give 100 % and 2 years down the track he would probably want out

[chef]

Happy to get Wines also - seems an aboslute gun!

Me too.

[Ghost Dog]

This. But you know what, Melbourne will get the book thrown at them because they've now been proven to have made Vlad sound like the fool that he is for arrogantly dismissing the notion that tanking occurs - even though tanking has been fostered by the AFL's own rules. Fool Vlad in public and you will suffer his wrath. Also he doesn't dare want to be subjected to legal action from the betting agencies so he will bash up an easy target ie: Melbourne in order to protect the millions pouring in from the betting agencies via sponsorship/signage.

Good luck trying to take Collingwood on and prove that they tanked in 2004 in order to get Thomas and Pendlebury - there was one match late that season where they were 4 goals up against North with 5 minutes to go that they somehow lost - Melbourne a much softer target :rolleyes:

Wow. Thanks for that. Had not even thought about the betting angle.
They really want to watch themselves. Soccer will take over like a tidal wave as more migrants come here, AFL congestion makes the game less likable, and fans turn away because of this stuff.

[Ghost Dog]

Wouldn't losing viney upset the Apple cart all that work leading up to taking him and him and his dad expecting to be at melbourne, wonder if we would take him
, not sure he would give 100 % and 2 years down the track he would probably want out

I think BMac could turn him around. Make him look at examples where players did not get to the club of their choice, but embraced the challenge. BMAC would say, look, don't waste two years. Get on with it. Then earn the right to go where you want to.
Once he met the likes of Koby Stevens and Clay Smith, I think he would start to form friendships.
He has to accept that if Melbourne is made to lose him, then he simply can't live his dream right now and that's the reality. Many players don't get to the club of their choice first off.

[chef]

Wow. Thanks for that. Had not even thought about the betting angle.
They really want to watch themselves. Soccer will take over like a tidal wave as more migrants come here, AFL congestion makes the game less likable, and fans turn away because of this stuff.

I know soccer is starting to take over up here as kids can play it competitively from age 6, while AFL you have to wait until under 12's. More kids play with the round ball at lunch time too.

[jeemak]

If they get sanctions it needs to be for first round draft picks. They should lose pick 4 this year and their first round pick and probably their 2nd pick for next season as a minimum.

This limits their ability to trade for players

A fine and a percentage reduction in the salary cap is also required.

The deals with Hogan and Viney might be void now.

Would we use pick 6 on Viney?

Agree with most of what you've stated, though I think they should still pay the minimum salary cap at least. Not sure if it's fair to punish players at the club by not paying competitive wages.

I barely bothered with looking at Viney as he was always going to Melbourne. Isn't he supposed to be a bit of an animal and accumulator? What are his skills like?

[KT31]

To whatever degree, it is match fixing and the book should be thrown at all involved.
Both tanking and salary cap breaches are cheating but at least with a salary cap breach the team is still trying to compete and win the game.

[azabob]

I wish the article was titled "Adelaide Crows embroiled in tanking strategy dramas as Assistant Coach Dean Bailey is investigated for......"

Why Dean Bailey? I may be the only one but I can't help but feel Bailey was a huge puppet and fall guy in the whole shebang....

[Bulldog4life]

Why Dean Bailey? I may be the only one but I can't help but feel Bailey was a huge puppet and fall guy in the whole shebang....

He was. Appears he had no choice except resign.

[jazzadogs]

If they get sanctions it needs to be for first round draft picks. They should lose pick 4 this year and their first round pick and probably their 2nd pick for next season as a minimum.

This limits their ability to trade for players

A fine and a percentage reduction in the salary cap is also required.

The deals with Hogan and Viney might be void now.

Would we use pick 6 on Viney?
Can't imagine they could make Viney void...they should still have the right to use their next available pick on him, no matter where it is in the draft. Take their first round picks off them, but I think it would be unfair to take Viney off them.

But I'll happily take Hogan ;)

[mjp]

This will end badly.

I would guess the AFL want Melbourne to keep their picks to help them become more competitive - bit will be compelled to punish them AND the Crows for cheating.

No idea where this all ends.

[Bulldog4life]

This will end badly.

I would guess the AFL want Melbourne to keep their picks to help them become more competitive - bit will be compelled to punish them AND the Crows for cheating.

No idea where this all ends.

Yes it will for them both. There is no doubt that the AFL will make an example out of Adelaide & Melbourne. Harshly I expect.

[Remi Moses]

If they get sanctions it needs to be for first round draft picks. They should lose pick 4 this year and their first round pick and probably their 2nd pick for next season as a minimum.

This limits their ability to trade for players

A fine and a percentage reduction in the salary cap is also required.

The deals with Hogan and Viney might be void now.

Would we use pick 6 on Viney?

There has to be sanctions involved.
Regardless of Melbourne's plight, I think they should lose pick 4 and give up Hogan.

[Dry Rot]

There has to be sanctions involved.
Regardless of Melbourne's plight, I think they should lose pick 4 and give up Hogan.

Re giving up Hogan, does GWS then still hang onto pick #3?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re giving up Hogan, does GWS then still hang onto pick #3?

i don't think any picks/trades/signings already completed will be voided. Pick 4 however i hope will be gone :D

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Hope Melbourne are punished to no end -- never been a fan.

[GVGjr]

Agree with most of what you've stated, though I think they should still pay the minimum salary cap at least. Not sure if it's fair to punish players at the club by not paying competitive wages.

I barely bothered with looking at Viney as he was always going to Melbourne. Isn't he supposed to be a bit of an animal and accumulator? What are his skills like?

I think they could cap it at 97.5% and make Melbourne re-work some contracts

[JohnGentStand]

Dean Bailey was portrayed as a man of principle and integrity. Forget the ' poor Dean' , ' he is a victim too' sentiment. If he ducked out and tanked to save his job then he is as bad as any. Throw the book. Bye-bye Dean.

[Ghost Dog]

Imagine being a player, doing well in a position, then being dragged or moved BECAUSE you are winning your position. How demoralizing.
I really REALLY hope they lose Todd Viney. Just desserts.
What a disgrace to the jumper. To all the players of past eras.

[jeemak]

I think they could cap it at 97.5% and make Melbourne re-work some contracts

What's the minimum?

How do you rate Viney, do you think if available at pick six we'd take him? I'm not too fussed about recruiting players specifically for outside pace and clean skills as much as I am with getting sheer talent on to our list. I do think that if a player has got good foot skills and reasonable pace, matched with excellent ball reading ability that they could play an outside role if required. If we were to select Wines and Viney was available, would you take him and be resigned to allowing one to develop as a more outside user?

[China Dog]

Here's the first real test for our new President. Is he going to kick up a sh*t-storm over this and force the AFL to deal with the Dees before the National draft or are we going to sit back and just take it again?

The Dees should have to forfeit their first round picks in the draft and Viney and Hogan (in 2013) should both have to go back into the draft pool. We should move up to pick 4 and 5.

I'd love to think we will be all over this, but probably we'll be and complient do nothing.

[jeemak]

Dean Bailey was portrayed as a man of principle and integrity. Forget the ' poor Dean' , ' he is a victim too' sentiment. If he ducked out and tanked to save his job then he is as bad as any. Throw the book. Bye-bye Dean.

I'm not sure I've seen that. I've only seen him portrayed as a "dead man walking" and a fall guy.

It's easy to take the high road in this instance and state you'd have behaved differently than Bailey. The reality is though, many clubs have done what Melbourne did in those years, they're just unfortunate (read stupid) they've let too many people in to the circle of knowledge and as a result they've come unstuck.

He'll likely have the book thrown at him, though as an untried coach trying to build credibility in an industry where tanking had become common practice not following instructions would have been career suicide.

[GVGjr]

What's the minimum?

How do you rate Viney, do you think if available at pick six we'd take him? I'm not too fussed about recruiting players specifically for outside pace and clean skills as much as I am with getting sheer talent on to our list. I do think that if a player has got good foot skills and reasonable pace, matched with excellent ball reading ability that they could play an outside role if required. If we were to select Wines and Viney was available, would you take him and be resigned to allowing one to develop as a more outside user?

I think the minimum is something like 94%

Viney is an excellent player and I'd be very interested in him with one of our early picks despite him being an inside midfielder.

I'm not worried about potentially losing him down the track either.

[jeemak]

I think the minimum is something like 94%

Viney is an excellent player and I'd be very interested in him with one of our early picks despite him being an inside midfielder.

I'm not worried about potentially losing him down the track either.

I think once at the club, and having Melbourne as a distant memory after two years we'd be able to hang on to him. If heavy sanctions were imposed on Melbourne you could be assured that a few players would want out, in lieu of them being unlikely to be successful for a while. I couldn't see them being an attractive proposition for potential recruits.

[bornadog]

Its getting worse as the evidence builds up:

We tried to stop tanking (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/we-tried-to-stop-tanking-20121031-28kea.html)

[Sockeye Salmon]

Melbourne were only doing what the AFL were encouraging. If the AFL were so concerned that tanking might happen, why did they give such a massive benefit for doing it.

I'm going by memory here, but other than one or two times when teams eligible for priority picks played each other, no team ever just missed out on a priority pick by one win. What an amazing coincidence.

[jeemak]

Melbourne were only doing what the AFL were encouraging. If the AFL were so concerned that tanking might happen, why did they give such a massive benefit for doing it.

I'm going by memory here, but other than one or two times when teams eligible for priority picks played each other, no team ever just missed out on a priority pick by one win. What an amazing coincidence.

It's just another example of the AFL introducing a rule or concession, and it being completely counterproductive.

Think the introduction of the 15m kick to reduce congestion in the forward line. All that did was make teams set themselves a few metres towards the opposition goal, hence increasing congestion.

Think making the head sacrosanct. All that did was make players dive in head first to a contest to draw a free kick for head high contact, irrespective of the intent of the offender and incidental contact.

Think using 18 teams to justify greater revenue from a broadcasting deal, to equalise the competition from a revenue distribution perspective. All that did was make the fixture even more unfair, resulting in teams craving and needing more exposure filling undesirable broadcasting slots.

The list goes on.

The AFL is poorly governed, and is pulling itself further and further away from credibility as a premium provider of entertainment and services. It is completely unaccountable to scrutiny that is not sanctioned, or controlled and self-serving.

[The Underdog]

Here's the first real test for our new President. Is he going to kick up a sh*t-storm over this and force the AFL to deal with the Dees before the National draft or are we going to sit back and just take it again?

The Dees should have to forfeit their first round picks in the draft and Viney and Hogan (in 2013) should both have to go back into the draft pool. We should move up to pick 4 and 5.

I'd love to think we will be all over this, but probably we'll be and complient do nothing.

Maybe we'll keep quiet because we don't want the AFL to look to closely at 2003 & 2004

[jeemak]

Maybe we'll keep quiet because we don't want the AFL to look to closely at 2003 & 2004

Indeed.

I guess the saving grace is we were so poorly coached any reasonable adjudicator after an investigation would award us retrospective first round picks!

I'm more concerned with 2012 to be honest. :o

[LostDoggy]

Unless they lost every pick in the draft, there is no way Melbourne will lose Viney, he's a father son. If all they have is pick 116, voila! Viney goes at 116.

Forcing Hogan into next years draft is a bit rough on the kid too, after the buildup. I'd like to see the AFL allow a few days for GWS to retrade the pick. Can't see it happening.

Looking forward to picks 4/5

[divvydan]

I would expect any penalties to apply from 2013 onwards.

[Mofra]

Imagine being a player, doing well in a position, then being dragged or moved BECAUSE you are winning your position. How demoralizing.
And what sort of message does that send to the group?

If I was a senior player I'd have zero loyalty to a club that treated me that way - they have a lost a plethora of good players over the past few years.
I can't say I like Carlton very much but I have enjoyed seeing Brock McLean play well in 2012.

[Mofra]

Unless they lost every pick in the draft, there is no way Melbourne will lose Viney, he's a father son. If all they have is pick 116, voila! Viney goes at 116.
The Age is reporting that if Melbourne lost their 1st and 2nd round picks, they would also lose Viney.

[azabob]

The Age is reporting that if Melbourne lost their 1st and 2nd round picks, they would also lose Viney.

Then does Viney go to the draft or to the club who nominated him in father son bidding?

[chef]

The Age is reporting that if Melbourne lost their 1st and 2nd round picks, they would also lose Viney.

This would really open up the draft(especially for us) at the top if this was to happen.

[Twodogs]

Then does Viney go to the draft or to the club who nominated him in father son bidding?



I dont think any club did nominate him.

[chef]

I dont think any club did nominate him.

Pretty sure Port did. If no one nominated him they could have just used their last available pick.

[Sedat]

I dont think any club did nominate him.
Port nominated him at pick 7 - if no club nominated him, Melbourne would have been free to take him with their last pick in the ND.

[Twodogs]

Pretty sure Port did. If no one nominated him they could have just used their last available pick.


Port nominated him at pick 7 - if no club nominated him, Melbourne would have been free to take him with their last pick in the ND.


Cheers guys. So he goes to Port if Melbourne's picks go by the wayside then?

[chef]

Cheers guys. So he goes to Port if Melbourne's picks go by the wayside then?

Not sure as this would be unprecedented.

[KT31]

Cheers guys. So he goes to Port if Melbourne's picks go by the wayside then?

Imagine he would just go into the draft, once Port made their intentions to bid for him no other club needed to bid to force Melbourne to use their first pick.

[MrMahatma]

Age said there could be an emergency hearing with the AFL on 19 Nov. Before the draft.

Also said that sanctions would most likely be for 2013 but I live in hope.

[GVGjr]

Melbourne appear to be mounting the Lance Armstrong defense strategy of deny, deny, deny to all the reports that are indicating that they did take measures to ensure they didn't win some games.

If the AFL has the courage to find them guilty then they need to hit them hard to make sure the balance of the league understand that there is consequences with going down this road.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Melbourne appear to be mounting the Lance Armstrong defense strategy of deny, deny, deny to all the reports that are indicating that they did take measures to ensure they didn't win some games.

If the AFL has the courage to find them guilty then they need to hit them hard to make sure the balance of the league understand that there is consequences with going down this road.

If they come down hard on Melbourne, what do they do to Carlton?

Or do we have a Melbourne Storm type scenario where one side gets smashed because someone blew the whistle but other sides who - despite everyone knowing they were guilty as hell - get away with it because no-one broke ranks?

That's a sure fire way of making sure no-one ever comes clean in the future.

[GVGjr]

If they come down hard on Melbourne, what do they do to Carlton?

Or do we have a Melbourne Storm type scenario where one side gets smashed because someone blew the whistle but other sides who - despite everyone knowing they were guilty as hell - get away with it because no-one broke ranks?

That's a sure fire way of making sure no-one ever comes clean in the future.

I see it in a different way.

All season long there was speculation that Melbourne was tanking games. I have not read one thing where Stynes or anyone of the board got the coaches together and said very simply something along the lines of "You are to pick sides every week that gives this club the best chance of winning every game"

Surely that is the responsible thing for a board to do to make sure the coaches were very clear that was the expectation of them especially given all the media speculation.

If they cannot demonstrate that then the evidence is strongly indicating that they weren't interested in wins.

[jeemak]

Does that mean they were interested in losing though?

I liked how Kennett has come out spinning his standard indignant crap. Hawthorn seemed to have benefitted from some priority picks in 2004 and 2005 from what I can remember.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/kennett-slams-disgusting-melbourne-tanking-20121101-28lw5.html

They wouldn't have tanked though, no way, not his club.

[Murphy'sLore]

It just seems crazy to have gone through all that just for the sake of one extra pick! No one's that good -- not even Tom Scully :rolleyes:

They seem to have completely ruined the club culture, dug themselves into a hole they can't get out of, and ultimately it's all been for nothing. It's almost like a self-punishing crime.

[Ghost Dog]

Murphy's lore good point! Scully is not even THAT GOOD.

Another thing; Lost in all of this are the fans. What about those loyal Melbourne fans who went to the G during that period. Who stuck by their team and rocked up, paid good cash to watch a game of footy, believing their club really needed their support. I'd be asking for my money back.

[bornadog]

Of course, common sense to manage your club. Resting stars, playing the kids when the season is dusted.

It would however, make me livid if my coach dragged me if I was fit and playing well, for some speculative pic. Murphy's lore good point! Scully is not even THAT GOOD.
Think about the players perspective; young blokes, they have a window of 5-6 years on average to enjoy pro AFL. To not be allowed to ply your trade to the best of your abilities. What a drag.

Another thing; Lost in all of this are the fans. What about those loyal Melbourne fans who went to the G during that period. Who stuck by their team and rocked up, paid good cash to watch a game of footy, believing their club really needed their support. I'd be asking for my money back.

All good points and true.

Unless the AFL can prove there was a coordinated plan by the coaches to lose games, it will be hard for the AFL to prove there was tanking.

There is nothing wrong with playing youth when the seasons all but gone or sending injured players off to have surgery and get them ready for next year.

Once a game starts, players don't want to lose and will put in 100%. Of course the coach can make some strange moves but again, how do you prove he was trying to deliberately lose a game?

[Bulldog4life]

All good points and true.

Unless the AFL can prove there was a coordinated plan by the coaches to lose games, it will be hard for the AFL to prove there was tanking.

There is nothing wrong with playing youth when the seasons all but gone or sending injured players off to have surgery and get them ready for next year.

Once a game starts, players don't want to lose and will put in 100%. Of course the coach can make some strange moves but again, how do you prove he was trying to deliberately lose a game?

It appears there might have been and I believe witnesses have come forward confirming this. Then of course there was that infamous meeting.

[Mofra]

Murphy's lore good point! Scully is not even THAT GOOD.

The extra pick was pick #2 - Trengrove.
In theory if they didn't tank they would only got Scully

[Murphy'sLore]

Sorry, my mistake.

So maybe it was worth it?

[comrade]

Murphy's lore good point! Scully is not even THAT GOOD.

Another thing; Lost in all of this are the fans. What about those loyal Melbourne fans who went to the G during that period. Who stuck by their team and rocked up, paid good cash to watch a game of footy, believing their club really needed their support. I'd be asking for my money back.

Plenty of Melbourne supporters that I know went to these games hoping they'd lose. The Jordan McMahon goal was one of their favourite moments of the last 5 years.

[Grantysghost]

Plenty of Melbourne supporters that I know went to these games hoping they'd lose. The Jordan McMahon goal was one of their favourite moments of the last 5 years.

I had a story conveyed to me by a Richmond supporter who was at that game. A Melbourne supporter stormed out disgusted by the teams winning position a couple of minutes before the end. After Jordan kicked the winning goal he stormed back, embraced my mate and jubilantly exclaimed "bring on the draft!"....

Funny story, sad situation.

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/jobs-on-line-dees-warned-20121101-28mx2.html

More damming reports in today's Age.

[Mofra]

Sorry, my mistake.

So maybe it was worth it?
Culturally I'd argue no, it wasn't worth it - then there are repurcussions of the AFL investigation, which seem likely to involve some form of punishment.

[jazzadogs]

The extra pick was pick #2 - Trengrove.
In theory if they didn't tank they would only got Scully
They also might not have finished on the bottom of the ladder, therefore missing out on both Scully and Trengrove.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Sad to think that the AFL were happy to bury this for three years and now after a media frenzy they have decided to act. Makes a mockery of the whole system. It really backfired in Melbourne's face with Scully's defection to GWS.

[Remi Moses]

Murphy's lore good point! Scully is not even THAT GOOD.

Another thing; Lost in all of this are the fans. What about those loyal Melbourne fans who went to the G during that period. Who stuck by their team and rocked up, paid good cash to watch a game of footy, believing their club really needed their support. I'd be asking for my money back.

That's all good when the bonus of an extra pick isn't at stake.
Pick 2 and 5 would have been nice in 04.

[azabob]

That's all good when the bonus of an extra pick isn't at stake.
Pick 2 and 5 would have been nice in 04.

Players or picks? ;)

I'd take player at pick 3 over player at pick 2, but I'd reluctantly take player at pick 5 over player at pick 6 :D.

[Remi Moses]

Players or picks? ;)

I'd take player at pick 3 over player at pick 2, but I'd reluctantly take player at pick 5 over player at pick 6 :D.

That Buddy bloke would have been nice

[jeemak]

That Buddy bloke would have been nice

If we'd have been able to manage him, or get him in the first place.

Not sure how credible the mail was at the time, though I heard he was pretty forthrite in his camp interviews when talking about clubs he did want to be drafted by, versus those he didn't.

[wimberga]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/former-melbourne-sponsor-says-senior-demons-offical-boasted-about-securing-top-two-draft-picks/story-e6frexx0-1226509485103

Still more evidence mounting. Surely they have to get a whack for this (hoping they lose pick 4 this year)!

[Remi Moses]

The big difference is the mounting evidence.
Not defending the Navy cheats( heaven forbid) but some went to ground ( Libba) when it came to approaching the AFL. As they say loose lips sink ships.

[China Dog]

it's really disappointing that weeks have gone by and there is still no AFL decision/position on the Crows and Melbourne. The AFL is trying to let any sanctions slide until next year. We might not get any advantage from this in next year's draft, if we finish below the Demons.

[jeemak]

I'm not too worried about whether we receive an advantage out of the situation.

The way I look at it is that I'm really sad for Melbourne's supporters and players from that time, and just another reminder of how stupid and irresponsible the AFL is. More and more I am disenchanted with the way a great game is being pulverised into an ongoing soap opera, with no consistency in outcomes.

[Remi Moses]

it's really disappointing that weeks have gone by and there is still no AFL decision/position on the Crows and Melbourne. The AFL is trying to let any sanctions slide until next year. We might not get any advantage from this in next year's draft, if we finish below the Demons.

Sorry, but the AFL is currently on Schmoozing at the cup carnival leave.
What a joke!

[The Underdog]

I'm not too worried about whether we receive an advantage out of the situation.

The way I look at it is that I'm really sad for Melbourne's supporters and players from that time, and just another reminder of how stupid and irresponsible the AFL is. More and more I am disenchanted with the way a great game is being pulverised into an ongoing soap opera, with no consistency in outcomes.

Agree completely. This isn't a situation where we should be looking at how we can win out of it or where we should be indulging in schaudenfreude. Melbourne have made a massive error in the systematic way they went about it and there being too many witnesses but there are a number of other clubs including ourselves who profited from the system (or certainly didn't do a lot to avoid profiting) and wouldn't want things looked at too closely.
The Melbourne supporters are the potentially the real losers out of this.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm not too worried about whether we receive an advantage out of the situation.

The way I look at it is that I'm really sad for Melbourne's supporters and players from that time, and just another reminder of how stupid and irresponsible the AFL is. More and more I am disenchanted with the way a great game is being pulverised into an ongoing soap opera, with no consistency in outcomes.

I agree. And looking at the draft, outside of Whitfield and Toumpas who are more than likely headed to GWS, i dont feel Melbourne can 'steal' a player with pick 4 that we desperately want anyway.

[comrade]

Agree completely. This isn't a situation where we should be looking at how we can win out of it or where we should be indulging in schaudenfreude. Melbourne have made a massive error in the systematic way they went about it and there being too many witnesses but there are a number of other clubs including ourselves who profited from the system (or certainly didn't do a lot to avoid profiting) and wouldn't want things looked at too closely.
The Melbourne supporters are the potentially the real losers out of this.

Plenty of Dees fans knew what was happening and not only openly supported it, but took joy in losing.

You reap what you sow and all that.

[China Dog]

I agree. And looking at the draft, outside of Whitfield and Toumpas who are more than likely headed to GWS, i dont feel Melbourne can 'steal' a player with pick 4 that we desperately want anyway.
It's not just an inmprovement with pick five but also improves our pick 22 position, particularly if Adelaide also loses their first round pick. We would effectively have picks 4,5 and 20.

[Dry Rot]

What are the chances of an outcome re the Dees prior to the ND? Not much time left.

The AFL could forward sanctions (losing this years picks and next year's early picks = fine) and say to the Dees accept it and keep Hogan, OR fight it and we withdraw our offer (you'll lose Hogan too)

That might resolve it quicker?

[wimberga]

What are the chances of an outcome re the Dees prior to the ND? Not much time left.

The AFL could forward sanctions (losing this years picks and next year's early picks = fine) and say to the Dees accept it and keep Hogan, OR fight it and we withdraw our offer (you'll lose Hogan too)

That might resolve it quicker?

My understanding is that the AFL will release something on the 19th of November regarding both Melbourne and Adelaide.

Does somebody else recall reading something like this?

[azabob]

My understanding is that the AFL will release something on the 19th of November regarding both Melbourne and St Kilda?

Does somebody else recall reading something like this?

St.Kilda or Adelaide?

The 19th is when the AFL commission meet. Draft is on the 22nd. I cannot see the AFL stripping Crows or Demons of draft picks for this national draft.

[Stevo]

My understanding is that the AFL will release something on the 19th of November regarding both Melbourne and St Kilda?

Does somebody else recall reading something like this?

I believe that to be true. The perplexing problem for the AFL is that they don't really want to punish Melbourne because it will open a bigger can of worms but they can't not address it.

I don't think they will do anything to them this year.

[wimberga]

Ahh yes correct, Melbourne and Adelaide my mistake.

I wish that they would lose picks this year but its looking unlikely.

[GVGjr]

Ahh yes correct, Melbourne and Adelaide my mistake.

I wish that they would lose picks this year but its looking unlikely.

I think Adelaide will, I'm not so sure about Melbourne.