Rookies to be elevated [Archive] - Whitten Oval Online Forum

bornadog

31-10-2012, 01:03 PM

Link (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/westernbulldogsnewsfeatures/newsarticle/tabid/4112/newsid/150565/default.aspx)

Jason Johannisen and Tom Campbell will be senior listed players in season 2013, with the Club today signalling its intent to elevate the pair to the primary list for next season as part of today’s first list lodgement.

Both Campbell and Johannisen made their senior debut this season in round 13 and round 19 respectively, with Campbell going on to play seven games in Bulldogs colours, while Johannisen took the field on three occasions.

A debut against the Brisbane Lions saw Campbell take first ruck duties and ultimately win the position, with a game high 28 hitouts as well as five clearances.

Campbell was also an instrumental player for VFL affiliate Williamstown, dominating the ruck for much of the season and eventually taking out the Best Williamstown Player Award at the 2012 Charles Sutton Medal.

South African born Johannisen demonstrated composure and skill at AFL level, breaking lines and providing run from the wing and off half-back.

The quietly spoken 19 year old was in his second year on the Bulldogs rookie list before earning his senior call up, with his outside dash and clean foot skills likely to feature more prominently in the coming seasons.

In addition to Campbell and Johannisen’s rookie elevation, 2012 rookies Alex Greenwood, Jack Redpath, Mark Austin and Lin Jong will remain on the rookie list for a second year in 2013.

bornadog

31-10-2012, 01:05 PM

Jong will get his go at the end of next year if he keeps improving, he is only 19 years old.

Austin must be disappointed especially as I think he is better than Markovic. If Morris doesn't make it, he will be elevated.

Ghost Dog

31-10-2012, 01:12 PM

Good news. Will be handy players both of them. JJ am especially excited about.

G-Mo77

31-10-2012, 01:29 PM

I would have liked a pick in the rookie draft so would have elevated Austin. What was the reasoning for dropping the rookies from 6 - 4?

1eyedog

31-10-2012, 01:34 PM

Astounded that Austin didn't come up given the departure of Lake and the much touted move of Williams forward.

chef

31-10-2012, 01:41 PM

I would have liked a pick in the rookie draft so would have elevated Austin. What was the reasoning for dropping the rookies from 6 - 4?

They gave clubs an extra 2 rookies because of the compromised drafts.

chef

31-10-2012, 01:43 PM

Glad we only up graded two, as I prefer to have another pick in the draft.

If Austin and Jong are any good they'll be added to the list during the year.

Axe Man

31-10-2012, 02:06 PM

What was the reasoning for dropping the rookies from 6 - 4?

6 rookies was only a temporary measure during the introduction of Gold Coast and GWS, it is reverting back to 4.

Mantis

31-10-2012, 02:27 PM

Astounded that Austin didn't come up given the departure of Lake and the much touted move of Williams forward.

With Roughead, Talia and possibly Roberts playing more in defence next year I agree with this move.

However I agree with others that Austin is a better option than Markovic.

azabob

31-10-2012, 03:00 PM

LostDoggy

31-10-2012, 03:27 PM

The club had to elevate both of these players after what they have shown. Campbell, especially, would not last long in the draft - amazing what he was able to do with no tank; looking forward to his efforts with a pre-season of running under his belt. JJ has shown that he is a class act, and his work ethic is second to none - will come on rapidly with another pre-season under his belt, too. Really looking forward to these blokes, and others, when they have a another 30 or 40 games in them. Austin is a journeyman at best (although the same could be said for Marko). He will get further (limited) opportunities if/when injuries arise. In the meantime, younger players must get the games, ie Talia, Roberts.

F'scary

31-10-2012, 03:45 PM

We should have cut Veszpremi to create one more late draft pick for upgrading Jong. Based on last year, Jong would get more games in 2013 than Veszpremi. Go figure. Veszpremi is also a one position player: FP. We have plenty of FP's at the moment.

F'scary

31-10-2012, 03:47 PM

The club had to elevate both of these players after what they have shown. Campbell, especially, would not last long in the draft ...

Were we at risk of losing Campbell if we had not drafted him? Isn't it 2 years on the rookie list?

LostDoggy

31-10-2012, 04:07 PM

Were we at risk of losing Campbell if we had not drafted him? Isn't it 2 years on the rookie list?

Spot on, F'scary. For some reason, I had him with JJ - already rookied with us for two. Still think it's a good call, though - 200cm+ monsters with so much upside are rare. Definitely a keeper.

Cyberdoggie

31-10-2012, 04:10 PM

Were we at risk of losing Campbell if we had not drafted him? Isn't it 2 years on the rookie list?

This year was his first.

The Bulldogs Bite

31-10-2012, 04:18 PM

Personally not sold on Greenwood and to a lesser extent Redpath, but I can understand why Austin wasn't upgraded.

He has a history of injury that he really needs to overcome. I think Austin is actually a very good defender in the Morris mould, suited to take that third tall. However, he keeps getting injured. If he performs next year, I can't see why he wouldn't be upgraded.

Jong showed quite a bit in his few games this year, but the right call was made. Another year will benefit him and allow us to sort out our list before promoting him.

Great to see JJ upgraded and Campbell is a solid long term option too.

Dry Rot

31-10-2012, 04:25 PM

So how many live draft picks do have left?

And if we keep Austin, Jong and Redpath, does that mean we have only one spot left for a new rookie?

bornadog

31-10-2012, 04:31 PM

So how many live draft picks do have left?

And if we keep Austin, Jong and Redpath, does that mean we have only one spot left for a new rookie?

Plus Greenwood will remain as a rookie, so no spots.

Live picks we have 5

chef

31-10-2012, 04:32 PM

So how many live draft picks do have left?

And if we keep Austin, Jong and Redpath, does that mean we have only one spot left for a new rookie?

No rookie picks and picks 5,6,21,50 and 89 in the draft I think. Thats if we don't sign a FA.

azabob

31-10-2012, 04:44 PM

F'scary

31-10-2012, 04:48 PM

Two questions,

1) Who are our FP's?

2) Who are our goal kicking FP's?

Dickson, Higgins, Dahlhaus, Giansiracusa.

F'scary

31-10-2012, 04:51 PM

Spot on, F'scary. For some reason, I had him with JJ - already rookied with us for two. Still think it's a good call, though - 200cm+ monsters with so much upside are rare. Definitely a keeper.

Definitely. Would have liked to have seen Jong upgraded too.

soupman

31-10-2012, 05:02 PM

azabob

31-10-2012, 05:06 PM

Dickson, Higgins, Dahlhaus, Giansiracusa.

Not sure I agree on Dahlhaus and Higgins - I think they will spend more time in the midfield in 2013.

Gia and Dickson are very clever small forwards (Even though you want Gia gone, it will be interesting to see how he goes).

bulldogsman

31-10-2012, 05:16 PM

Plus Greenwood will remain as a rookie, so no spots.

Live picks we have 5

I believe we are able to take two International rookies, or is it just one? I know that's a new rule the AFL have put in place.

Dry Rot

31-10-2012, 05:30 PM

Plus Greenwood will remain as a rookie, so no spots.

Live picks we have 5

No rookie picks and picks 5,6,21,50 and 89 in the draft I think. Thats if we don't sign a FA.

Thanks.

Wonder if we'll keep the #89 spot for the PSD?

Axe Man

31-10-2012, 06:08 PM

I believe we are able to take two International rookies, or is it just one? I know that's a new rule the AFL have put in place.

Not only international rookies, the rules are:

Under Player Rule 21.1.2 each Club may include up to three additional players on its Rookie List provided the player either:
- has not been registered or played in an Australian Football competition for three years immediately before inclusion on the Rookie List
- is an International Player, meaning he is not an Australian citizen and has not lived in Australia for a substantial period of time (note: Irish players are excepted)
- is a former NSW Scholarship player with that Club
- is a former International Scholarship player with that Club
- is a rookie zone selection for Clubs based in Sydney, Brisbane or the Gold Coast

and

Clubs may now list one Irish player under Player Rule 21.1.2.

Link (http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/2012/MemoRookiesAug14.pdf)

bulldogsman

31-10-2012, 06:16 PM

Thanks Axe Man.

Go_Dogs

31-10-2012, 06:30 PM

Nice to see the club show some restraint with the rookies. In the past we have promoted them off a handful of mediocre games (Hooper) or for no reason at all (Mulligan, Panos).

Finally we are using it correctly, to promote players that we think will be a regular part of the side (Johannissen) or will get semi-regular games (Campbell). Also we've kept players that have shown potential (Jong) on there for a bit longer, a little more like how Freo have managed their rookie list in the past.

Agree with all that.

Jong was good towards the end of 2012 but he is probably still behind a few in the pecking order when the list is at full fitness so I don't mind him having another year as a rookie to continue to develop. If he continues along as he did in 2012, no doubt he'll be upgraded for 2014.

As you point out, Freo have managed their rookie list very well over recent years and we should certainly be looking at them as an example of how to effectively manage the rookie list.

JohnGentStand

31-10-2012, 06:33 PM

I am happy to keep Jong, Redpath and Austin, but havent sen enough of Greenwood.... What are his strengths? Where do the faithfull see him in 3 years time?

Sockeye Salmon

31-10-2012, 08:04 PM

Were we at risk of losing Campbell if we had not drafted him? Isn't it 2 years on the rookie list?

While we could have offered him a rookie list spot for another year, he would be under no obligation to accept it. Any other team could promise to draft him if he nominated.

F'scary

02-11-2012, 02:28 PM

Not sure I agree on Dahlhaus and Higgins - I think they will spend more time in the midfield in 2013.

Gia and Dickson are very clever small forwards (Even though you want Gia gone, it will be interesting to see how he goes).

Sorry about Gia but I look at the list changes Collingwood (currently riding high in the top 8), has rung in, that is 13 to our 10 and I think that we should have gone a bit harder. The players who just hung on (and I count Gia in this group because of age-related fitness issues that are only going to get worse) can consider themselves pretty lucky given our relative ladder position to Collingwood. But... maybe Gia can make a recovery and enjoy a year like 2011 again. Great for the side if he can. Just got to get Kosi to run across his path.

jeemak

08-11-2012, 12:18 AM

Sorry about Gia but I look at the list changes Collingwood (currently riding high in the top 8), has rung in, that is 13 to our 10 and I think that we should have gone a bit harder. The players who just hung on (and I count Gia in this group because of age-related fitness issues that are only going to get worse) can consider themselves pretty lucky given our relative ladder position to Collingwood. But... maybe Gia can make a recovery and enjoy a year like 2011 again. Great for the side if he can. Just got to get Kosi to run across his path.

Collingwood's position has no relevance to ours. They have a deeper spread of talent than we do, and they are in a better position to cut dead wood than we are right now too.

If you look at the age profile of our list, and consider we've still got Murphy, Boyd, Cross and Giansiracus running around for us, we have turned ourselves into the third youngest in the competition since the end of the 2012 season. I'm not sure whether there'd be value in cutting deeper than we have, especially if we've determined we can source the required amount of talent in the draft to keep us going.

Melbourne were completely bereft of leadership over the last two seasons. Cutting players like Gia (after trading out Lake) would only take us a step closer to being in their shoes.

Ghost Dog

08-11-2012, 08:08 AM

Collingwood's position has no relevance to ours. They have a deeper spread of talent than we do, and they are in a better position to cut dead wood than we are right now too.

If you look at the age profile of our list, and consider we've still got Murphy, Boyd, Cross and Giansiracus running around for us, we have turned ourselves into the third youngest in the competition since the end of the 2012 season. I'm not sure whether there'd be value in cutting deeper than we have, especially if we've determined we can source the required amount of talent in the draft to keep us going.

Melbourne were completely bereft of leadership over the last two seasons. Cutting players like Gia (after trading out Lake) would only take us a step closer to being in their shoes

Not sure I agree. Baby Bombers? It is possible to build a core side around young players. Depends how you do it. We have Addison, Dickson, Boyd, Cross, Murphy, Glove - Vezpremi. That's your spine right there. How may more older blokes do you need? What does Gia do that Dickson can't?
Melbourne had all sorts of issues that make them a poor example of how to get a young side firing.

Cyberdoggie

08-11-2012, 09:51 AM

Not sure I agree. Baby Bombers? It is possible to build a core side around young players. Depends how you do it. We have Addison, Dickson, Boyd, Cross, Murphy, Glove - Vezpremi. That's your spine right there. How may more older blokes do you need? What does Gia do that Dickson can't?
Melbourne had all sorts of issues that make them a poor example of how to get a young side firing.

If Boyd wasn't there, Gia probably would of been the captain. He's certainly the best public speaker other than Murphy, and is obviously very highly thought of amongst the group. If it wasn't for his ageing/slowing body and perhaps the role he plays up forward he would of been chosen.

If you lose anyone with experience and leadership it hurts the development of your group.
The less of these players you have the less influence they have over the group.

jeemak

08-11-2012, 10:34 AM

Not sure I agree. Baby Bombers? It is possible to build a core side around young players. Depends how you do it. We have Addison, Dickson, Boyd, Cross, Murphy, Glove - Vezpremi. That's your spine right there. How may more older blokes do you need? What does Gia do that Dickson can't?
Melbourne had all sorts of issues that make them a poor example of how to get a young side firing.

You mean that side that had Tim Watson, David Grenvold, Chris Danniher, Mark Harvey and Paul Salmon running around?

I suppose what Gia can do that Dickson can't is lead through experience as an AFL veteran on the field and around the club. I'm not saying Dickson won't be capable of doing that at some stage, though Gia has 12 more years on a senior AFL list than he has.

I agree that Melbourne had all sorts of issues. Many would argue that a major one was their lack of senior leaders to assist in the development of their younger players.

Anyway, this thread is about Rookies. I'm glad JJ got elevated, as I really liked his composure in patches at the highest level.

Dry Rot

11-11-2012, 06:56 PM

2012 rookies Alex Greenwood, Jack Redpath, Mark Austin and Lin Jong will remain on the rookie list for a second year in 2013.

Anyone else wondering if we should have kept all four?

We've done relatively well out of our rookies, so maybe some new blood would have been worth a go?

GVGjr

11-11-2012, 07:04 PM

Anyone else wondering if we should have kept all four?

We've done relatively well out of our rookies, so maybe some new blood would have been worth a go?

To me Austin and Jong make a lot of sense. I didn't see enough in Redpath to think he is worth sticking with and Greenwood is line ball.

I'd probably prefer to have kept two spots open.

azabob

11-11-2012, 08:16 PM

To me Austin and Jong make a lot of sense. I didn't see enough in Redpath to think he is worth sticking with and Greenwood is line ball.

I'd probably prefer to have kept two spots open.

To be fair to Greenwood apparently he came on quite well later in the year. JJ would've been line ball, if not below the line in his first year.

Im happy to keep all of them on.

The Bulldogs Bite

11-11-2012, 11:34 PM

My issue with Greenwood is that he is very lightly built both in height and weight and yet he is predominately an inside midfielder. We've got some strong talent already on the list, so I can't see how he replaces them.

He did improve and his skills are neat, but I would have liked to pick up another rookie. Redpath was 50/50 for mine - happy enough to keep him on.

w3design

12-11-2012, 11:54 AM

Sorry about Gia but I look at the list changes Collingwood (currently riding high in the top 8), has rung in, that is 13 to our 10 and I think that we should have gone a bit harder. The players who just hung on (and I count Gia in this group because of age-related fitness issues that are only going to get worse) can consider themselves pretty lucky given our relative ladder position to Collingwood. But... maybe Gia can make a recovery and enjoy a year like 2011 again. Great for the side if he can. Just got to get Kosi to run across his path.

Ha, your talking about a younger Gia there. Even Kosi would need to be stationary for Gia C2012 to bump/tackle him. In all honesty Gia would have difficulty catching and tackling a witches hat on a breezy day unfortunately, even then only if he could manage somehow to keep on his feet.
As to young Greenwood, folks should cut the kid a little slack. For heavens sake he has not even had a pre season at all yet. He spent most of his only one with his foot in a moon boot. That pretty much equates to him being a kid straight out of high school playing against men. Give him a proper pre season, and another year in the system, then start to consider if he has what it takes or not.
The final match aside, he seemed to be developing quite nicely as the season went on. I don't know if anything has changed, but B Mac seemed quite enamoured of the kid before the season got under way.