Can we catch the Cats in 2008?

[GVGjr]

They were very strong all season but yesterday they were simply awesome.

Their big blokes are all good ones plus there mid's have a bit of size about them and have good skills.

This time last year though the Cats were really searching for answers which sounds very similar with our current plight.

Barring a killer trade or two what do we need to do to get us back mixing it with the big boys?
How do we bridge the gap?

I'm still concerned about the way we were repeatedly thrashed in the last few weeks but I'd like to think that we have a better run at things next season.

[LostDoggy]

I dont really want to comment on whether we will be able to catch the cats, but more about the talk of how premiership teams are going to back up next year.
I have serious doubts about Geelong backing up next year.
If we remember last year the talk was about how young West Coast were and how they were going to be hard to beat. History tells us that due to off field issues & injuries, they were unable to back up.
Geelong have talked about being on a mission this year.
Will they think that the mission is now done and be able to keep up the intensity next year?
Will they have serious injuries? They have had minimal injuries to key players this year
There are too many variables
You look at the other teams and say that the Hawks, Woods, Eagles will probably be better next year.
We have a good core of players, but we need to develop some 'mongrel' and some body size.
Recruiting a ruckman will help.
I think that we will improve, especially if we get a break with injuries and play a more traditional structure.
Geelong have shown that a traditional structure combined with hard players that tackle and commit to the contest that the traditional structure is still the best formula for success.

[Go_Dogs]

Their pressure was fantastic. Port have some of the best foot skills and decision making going around normally, and yesterday they were pressured into repeatedly making stupid errors.

Geelong were fantastic, and it's clear they are a fair way in front at this point in time of most competitors.

[BulldogBelle]

I can't see why we can't catch the Cats next season, who would've thought that they would be premiers especially after how they were travelling last season and the remarkable turnaround they put on show this season.

A few of the Geelong players have mentioned many a times that they all sat down and spoke a few home truths about themselves and their teammates and what they had to do to turn things around. Look at them now, they have just about scooped up every award imaginable this season.

For whatever reason we lost our way in the second half and there will be a lot of soul searching happening at our club. We beat both of the teams in the Grand Final this year - so we can win with the best of them but the mental application and physical pressure just wasn't there.

I am confident we will turn things around. Bring on 2008!

[The Underdog]

Footy seasons are long and anything can happen. A couple of injuries and the Cats could come right back to the pack, not to mention the possibitly of a premiership hangover, after such an historic win. I think midfield wise we can match them almost straight up, talent wise at least. However the areas they are a lot better than us are:
- The ruck, although this time last year they didn't look that strong. Strong season by Ottens helped them immensely. We need Hudson to provide that sort of effort with support from Will.
- Defence. Their backline is the best in the league. They provide rebound without giving up big scores and don't turn the ball over. Ours provides rebound and turns the ball over too often, putting the pressure straight back on us.
-Tall forwards. They have an array of good quality tall forwards supported by good ground level players and guys like Stokes, Byrnes and Varcoe who are in the team to provide forward line pressure and actually do it.
-One thing I noticed they were brilliant at, in the GF especially, was finding a free man from a contested situation. They nearly always manged to get the ball out from under a pack or in a tackle to an outside player. We were very good at this in 2006. Not so good this year.

To be honest we have a long way to go. I think the talent is there but the consistent effort required and the development of some consistent talls needs to come.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Also the way they still somehow manage to get the ball to a teammate when being tackled. Ling half shrugging off an opponent and although the tackle 'stuck' Ling made sure the ball got out to a teammate who goaled. Fantastic upper body strength.

[mjp]

Also the way they still somehow manage to get the ball to a teammate when being tackled. Ling half shrugging off an opponent and although the tackle 'stuck' Ling made sure the ball got out to a teammate who goaled. Fantastic upper body strength.

Fantastic decision making by his team-mates to remain part of the contest and provide him with an option.

[LostDoggy]

Geelong has proved itself an outstanding team and thoroughly deserves their Premiership.

If we are to compete with them we need players with the body size to match them. Byrnes is probably the only one in the side who is slight on.

Another point of difference is their big man strength in the forward line with Moody and Ablett supported by Ottens - we have no equivalent to these three.

Thirdly, their game plan of playing on at all costs, forwards maintaining their positions and their use of the centre corridor is a lesson for all teams.

You simply do not see Geelong players break free and have to stop because there is nobody in front of them. When they move into the forward line, they have Chapman, Johnson and Moody to kick to and if they're covered there's Ablett or an onballer running on.

Their mid-field is also strong with Ablett and Bartel (both class acts) supported by an excellent stopper in Ling (again we have no equivalent).

As much as it hurts to say it, we still have a long way to go.

[Mantis]

Fantastic decision making by his team-mates to remain part of the contest and provide him with an option.

And that there is one of our major problems: Number's at the contest. When we play well (which was rare this year) we seem to hunt in packs, when we don't we have too many players forward of the ball, hoping that the ball will end up in there hands and they can get the plaudits. The Geelong players seem less interested in individual performances and more interested in how there efforts will effect the team's overall performance.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Their backline spoiling and generally their chasing and tackling were very good particularly early. When they gained posession they moved the ball quickly to long options while also having guys front and square ready to rove it.

Their ball movement was just class

At this stage I am just not prepared at this stage to commit to saying: "We can catch Geelong."

We dont do enough of the team things well enough, and we certainly dont tackle well enough to get to their level

[Go_Dogs]

It's all work rate. Time and time again they would have an extra 2 or 3 players at a contest, working hard to create contests, and then spreading quickly as soon as possession was won. IMO, forget body size (sure it helps) if your working as hard as they are, it would be difficult to lose.

[LostDoggy]

It's all work rate. Time and time again they would have an extra 2 or 3 players at a contest, working hard to create contests, and then spreading quickly as soon as possession was won. IMO, forget body size (sure it helps) if your working as hard as they are, it would be difficult to lose.


You simply can't forget body size. Its the difference between being knocked off the ball or knocked off your feet rather than staying in the contest. Its the primary reason why they are succesful at winning the contested ball.

[Mantis]

You simply can't forget body size. Its the difference between being knocked off the ball or knocked off your feet rather than staying in the contest. Its the primary reason why they are succesful at winning the contested ball.

But if you compare the body sizes of there core midfield group in Ablett, Corey, Ling and Bartel to ours in West, Cross, Boyd and Cooney you would find they aren't too different.

[hargs37]

baby steps folks. There are 10 other teams we need to catch before we get to Geelong. Hope the boys go away and enjoy the next couple of weeks because this pre season will be a beauty. The kangas did it and i think we will do the same. Rocket will not take 2 seasons of that in a row and will show the rest of the league why he's one of the best! Hoping so any way!

[dog town]

It's all work rate. Time and time again they would have an extra 2 or 3 players at a contest, working hard to create contests, and then spreading quickly as soon as possession was won. IMO, forget body size (sure it helps) if your working as hard as they are, it would be difficult to lose. Totally agree. People get too caught up in body size. Winning contested ball is a skill just like anything else and there are things you can do to increase your chances of winning them. Work rate, positioning and courage all play just as big a part as body size.

[Dry Rot]

Totally agree. People get too caught up in body size. Winning contested ball is a skill just like anything else and there are things you can do to increase your chances of winning them. Work rate, positioning and courage all play just as big a part as body size.

Yes, that little bloke Kerr goes OK.

[Mofra]

Well, why not list what we would need?

We need to increase our clearance rate, which means better functioning midfield group.

Hudson rucked well & managed a heap of clearances. Tick.
Ablett = star with a former allication problem. Cooney? Tick.
Bartel - gun midfielder from junior days. Griffen? Tick.
Ling - heaps of ticker, run with player, never drops his head. Cross? Tick.
Corey - hates being beaten, can run forward and snag a goal. Boyd? Tick.

Now it gets interesting here. The forward set up.
Mooney was a former ruck, aggressive, turned forward. Both Minson & Skipper have the size & aggression, the timing of leads concerns me.
Extremely tentitive maybe possible hopeful type tick. Perhaps they can both be in the side, as back-up ruckman to Hudson with 1 forward at all times?

Nathan Ablett - I don't rate him as highly as many other. Young, skinny developing tall who has a go. Tiller. Tick.
Chapman - we have no obvious replacement. He is an absolute gun who is impossible to tackle. Hahn can do his inside work.
Steve Johnson - freak who creates goals from nothing. Aker next year? Half tick.
In our favour, we have the best Johnson in the league. Big Tick.
Small forward. Harbrow runs & chases, as a defensive HF player. Good. Gia was our no 1 assist player. Injury free he is an asset to any side. Carrying an injury, he is an average player in an average side. Up to the injury gods.
Rob Murphy - brilliat Forward workhorse. Tick to us.

Backline? Harris can match Scarlett in most areas. Scarlett is getting older. Tick.
CHB? Williams may not be in Egan's class yet, but we have Doogs as a back-up, Hargrave can play undersized if need be, and Morris would tackle King Kong if Eade told him too. We struggle with a BP type, however an Addison or Call might work).

On paper, there is much that need to go right for us to match Geelong. Hower, it is worth noting at the end of 06/start of 07:
- Bomber was named with Connolly the most likely to be sacked mid season
- Geelong had "underperformed on paper"
- Mental strength was questioned; Johnson being stood down for 6 weeks didn't help them
- A big name trade was "underperforming" in the eyes of the AFL community
- They had missed the finals when widely tipped to make it

Fools panic, wise men plan.

[hargs37]

Who was Matthew Egan before this year. Exactly where big tom is now! I reckon we have an awsome backline to build on. Add Gillbee down back, and I think we should move Bob back there, as Higgo and Aker can play that leading small role, yet probably dont have the defensive capabilities as murph. Another tick for the back. The onballers need to find that right mix of flair and run, yet the grunt and toughness to be able to lock down opponents when required. Griffen and Cross are great at that.(Althouh you mentioned Cross as a strong body comparing to Ling, but i think he probably lacks that genuine ability to break a tackle. Too Light) West has to worry about getting the ball, as usual. Boyd showed he has class and poise, as well as a defensive side to his game. One bloke who was given an opportunity half way through the year that I found enlightening was Sam Power. Given a few jobs on some big names and certainly impressed me. Managed to do a few things with the nut when he got it as well. I had him on the scrap heap end of last year, but seems to have a reasonable motor. Could be a find. Eagle and Ray, well seemed totread water. ? marks over them in future. The forwards ,well who knows. Not me so i wont even try on this thread!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The biggest problem our group has is what Geelong managed to find this season. That undeniable desire to win, and win big. The way they hunted in packs, chased, tackled and worked as a team this year was incredible. When they had an opponent on the ropes, they made sure they buried them. The determination and the grit they showed is admirable and I hope more than anything we are able to discover this. Can you imagine if our side played with the same intensity as Geelong did? Players like Cooney, Griffen & even Akermanis would be mouth watering to watch.

One positive though is the backline. Although it's still very much developing, it's finally starting to come together and look a lot better than it has for years. For as long as I can remember we've never had a seriously good backline, especially in the last few years, where we've generally had a decent forward mix and a good midfield, but always lacked down back. Sides like Geelong have had good backlines for years. However, Harris had a pretty good season in a very poor year for the club. He'll only improve if he doesn't have to contest ball after ball. Williams coming on is a huge positive too. He's a quick learner and he has all the tools to be a cornerstone of the backline. Gilbee is fantastic; what I love about him is his ability to be defensive when it counts. He's actually very good at jumping and spoiling the ball. He positions himself well in these scenarios too. Morris is the perfect lockdown player whilst Hargrave playing on the third tall can do damage offensively. Griffen when down there is a class act as we all know, and if we are able to find another hard nosed defender (Callan?) then it's looking much better again, as we're able to release McMahon to a wing where IMO he plays much better football.


Hypothetically;

Morris - Harris - Callan
Hargrave - Williams - Gilbee


To me that would seem a fairly decent backline IF Callan is capable of playing a hard nosed role similiar to that of Morris'. That would mean we have 2 tough, hard at it and tight fitting small-medium defenders, a 'general' & possible AA in Harris, an ever improving and young CHB, an AA HBF & a third tall that would finally be allowed to play on oppsitions third best forward. Hargrave could carve them up both ways IMO.

And as we all know, Premierships are won with the back six. If you then tinker with the midfield, making sure they're regularly giving the back six a chop out then we should start to see rapid improvement in our side.

[dog town]

Who was Matthew Egan before this year. Exactly where big tom is now! ! He was well ahead of where Williams is now. I tipped Matty Egan to be an AA 2 years ago.I like Williams but Egan was rated very highly prior to this season by anyone who has watched a him.

[hargs37]

He was well ahead of where Williams is now. I tipped Matty Egan to be an AA 2 years ago.I like Williams but Egan was rated very highly prior to this season by anyone who has watched a him.

Of course you did!:confused:

[dog town]

Of course you did!:confused: Not sure why I need to justify this but anyway read post 13 of the thread below.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235012&highlight=egan

Not quite 2 years ago but 2 footy seasons.

[LostDoggy]

Lier! April 2006 is not 2 years or 2 full seasons ago ;)

Great get anyway

[GVGjr]

Lier! April 2006 is not 2 years or 2 full seasons ago ;)

Great get anyway


He has a terrific eye for talent and calling things early so I never doubted it. I still recall him saying Gilbee would be a 200 game player and at that stage I don't think he had played more than 6 senior games.

[dog town]

If I say it about enough players I am bound to get some right;)

On the down side I am pretty sure that the year Kingsley Hunter got moved to FB I thought he could be one of the top backmen in the comp. Oops!

[LostDoggy]

If I say it about enough players I am bound to get some right;)

On the down side I am pretty sure that the year Kingsley Hunter got moved to FB I thought he could be one of the top backmen in the comp. Oops!

I know a couple of brothers that still believe that.

[Mofra]

We can't catch the Cats if we take there seconds players and put them in our firsts can we.
You'll need to read a little more into it than that. Coaching issues & VFL B&F in the team that won both AFL & VFL premierships.
Do we have a small BP better than Callan?

Hint: the answer is no.

[LostDoggy]

Do we have a small BP better than Callan?


I'm all for getting Callan cheaply, he'll add depth to the list. But we do have better smalls. Well, better back pockets anyway. Not until Callan was mentioned on the bulldogs board was Tim ever a back pocket. He's a midfielder that some times drifts back. Like Boydy used to do.

[GVGjr]

I'm all for getting Callan cheaply, he'll add depth to the list. But we do have better smalls. Well, better back pockets anyway. Not until Callan was mentioned on the bulldogs board was Tim ever a back pocket. He's a midfielder that some times drifts back. Like Boydy used to do.

A Cats supporter mate of mine who is know as being very critical of his own players really rates his as a hard nosed defender. He said the one thing for sure is that Callan will give you everything he has.

[The Underdog]

A Cats supporter mate of mine who is know as being very critical of his own players really rates his as a hard nosed defender. He said the one thing for sure is that Callan will give you everything he has.

God knows we don't need a player like that :rolleyes: