Draft Day Talk

[GVGjr]

Lets move the discussions away from the predictions thread to this one.

By the way very soon a number of youngsters will be joining the greatest club in the competition and I know that I can't wait to get them to the Kennel. ;)

[Jasper]

Its an exciting time for the club and the players names that will be called out tonight.
Im really looking forward to it.
Wines and Stringer would be my preferences at 5 and 6.
How quickly will they get the boys down to the club?

[LostDoggy]

Really looking forward to tonight.

I really hope we go with Gartlett or Jacobs if either are availble at 21/22.

[G-Mo77]

Any TV Coverage?

[GVGjr]

Any TV Coverage?

Foxtel of course

[G-Mo77]

Foxtel of course

Thanks. Wasn't sure as I don't have Foxtel. Looks like radio for me.

[mighty_west]

By the way very soon a number of youngsters will be joining the greatest club in the competition and I know that I can't wait to get them to the Kennel. ;)

Amen to that!!!

Draft time is a strange one, some supporters really couldn't care less about it or watching it, yet to alot of us it's like being a child waiting and waiting for the 25th of December, exciting stuff.

I think whichever players we get at 5 and 6 will be quality, so I'm not overally too fussed who we get, would have loved Toumpas or O'Rourke but will most likely be gone, but the more I'm reading about and watching clips of McCrae, he also excited me with his freakish like skills and ability to dodge and weave, kind of reminds me of a cross between Pendlebury and Fyfe.

Not long to go now, Go Dogs!

[dog town]

Thanks. Wasn't sure as I don't have Foxtel. Looks like radio for me. Macca on fox sports news giving nothing away. Did say "its a myth that you can have too many guys who are good in a contest". Was questioned about Menzel and gave nothing.

[Go_Dogs]

Made an effort to get home in time to get comfortable on the couch with Foxtel on and will probably have the AFL Tracker running too :D

Really thinking we'll end up with Macrae and Stringer could still be a few surprises though, and no idea at 21 but we should get a pretty handy player.

Very happy it's back to a normal order instead of reverse top 10, just have to hope the coverage is better than last years too.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm getting quite excited over this draft, moreso than any other time.
Yes in 04 we had pick 1 and 4, and 05 we had 3 and 6, but there didn't seem to be as much speculation about where guys would go in those years, nor as much depth as this year looks to have.
I think unless there are some surprises by GWS, we will be forced to have a good hard think about who we choose when picks 5 & 6 roll around.

Irrespective of who we choose, I just hope that we look back in 3-4 years and look at this draft as the one where we really set a platform for our future success.

[LostDoggy]

Locked in my room with the dog and laptop! All the best woofers, here's hoping we have smiles after this

[GVGjr]

Its an exciting time for the club and the players names that will be called out tonight.
Im really looking forward to it.
Wines and Stringer would be my preferences at 5 and 6.
How quickly will they get the boys down to the club?

They will get them down to the club quickly enough. Are you still keen on Dean Towers?

[LostDoggy]

Macca on fox sports news giving nothing away. Did say "its a myth that you can have too many guys who are good in a contest". Was questioned about Menzel and gave nothing.

He is a master at saying a bit but not a lot :)

[bulldogsman]

Anyone have a prediction to for a slider or a smokie?

For me

Smokie - Spencer White
Slider - Mason Shaw

[Eastdog]

Whitfield, O rourke snapped up 1 and 2 for GWS.

[SlimPickens]

They're you go O rourke pick two, Toumpas to slide.

[Go_Dogs]

Going to plan so far.

[Greystache]

Going as predicted so far

1. Whitfield
2. O'Rourke

[Greystache]

3. Plowman

Sounds like Wines will slide

[G-Mo77]

Mate was home so watching it on Fox. :)

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Right we're on.. Toumpass to the Dee's.
Will we pull the trigger on Wines..

[Hotdog60]

Toumpas goes to the Dees

[G-Mo77]

Plowman gone so think we'll get Wines. Be surprised if Melbourne pass on Toumpas.

[Greystache]

4. Toumpas

We're up, this will be interesting. Probably Stringer

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Welcome Jake Stringer!

[Hotdog60]

Stringer to the dogs

[Eastdog]

Welcome to the Bulldogs Jake Stringer.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Welcome Jackson Macrae wtih pick 6

[Eastdog]

Welcome Jackson Macrae.

[Ghost Dog]

Done! Stringer and Macrae! AWESOME! Welcome boys.

[SlimPickens]

Good result like Macrae and Stringer going to plan isn't it

[Pedro Sanchez]

Good result - Emma's picked it like a dirty nose so far. Wines must have been hard to overlook...

[SlimPickens]

Good get for PA, nice player

[The Underdog]

Welcome Jake Stringer "Bell" & "Action" Jackson Macrae

[Eastdog]

Wonder where Menzel will be picked up.

[Go_Dogs]

Pretty happy with that. Now let's nail pick 21.

[Pedro Sanchez]

Welcome Jake Stringer "Bell" & "Action" Jackson Macrae

I concur - I like this

[bulldogsman]

Happy with that result, welcome to the club boys. Macrae has been a favourite all year, especially happy with that.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I must admit I had a little fist pumping "YEEESSS" When we picked Stringer.

[comrade]

Stringer looks like a natural footballer, very smart. I hope he can get a to a very high fitness level because I'm pretty confident he'll be a quality player.

[SlimPickens]

Ok so no Menzal in top 10. Clearly a talent, injury obviously a massive concern for us but others also.

And there he goes to Carlton

[SlimPickens]

Couple of tall surprises by GWS, although I did have Jaksch at 12

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Nathan Hrovat, welcome to the club!

[Mofra]

Wow - didn't think we'd pass on O'Brien at 21

[bulldogsman]

Surprised we passed on O'Brien.

[Go_Dogs]

Hrovat, bit surprised by that pick. Will be interesting to hear the reasoning behind that one, but nonetheless, welcome aboard Nathan.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Surprised we didn't get O'Brien

I wonder if we thought Hrovat would go earlier? He must've been rated a fair bit higher than who we perhaps thought would be available at 21.

[Ghost Dog]

Nathan Hrovat - Our Midfield will be the ducks guts

[Eastdog]

Welcome to the Bulldogs Nathan Hrovat from Mill Park FC.

[azabob]

Welcome Jake Stringer "Bell" & "Action" Jackson Macrae

Hope Jake has longer career than Stringer!

[Cyberdoggie]

Nathan Hrovat, welcome to the club!

Will be a popular player at the club

[comrade]

Collingwood killed it?

[SlimPickens]

Hrovat very good player, surprised we went him but not disappointed.

[GVGjr]

Wow - didn't think we'd pass on O'Brien at 21

Me neither. Does this indicate that we see Stringer as a forward?

[Go_Dogs]

Collingwood killed it?

Grundy and Kennedy? In my opinion they absolutely smashed it :mad:

[Eastdog]

Collingwood killed it?

It's liked they had a secret deal :D but we all know why they got 3 in a row because of the Crows saga.

[Go_Dogs]

Me neither. Does this indicate that we see Stringer as a forward?

I guess so, unless we've got someone in mind who may be available at our next pick.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Hrovat very good player, surprised we went him but not disappointed.

From his bio he fits a clear need at our club, being a good user of the ball.
All in all happy so far. Have filled needs with skillful players, and Hrovat and Macrae not slow either.

[Mofra]

Spender White ahead of O'Brien as well. Saints.

[always right]

We've clearly gone best available. Staggered we passed on O'Brien. Now the Hawks pick him up......why do they need another key forward?

[GVGjr]

Not surprisingly the Giants have gone tall with a number picks :)

[mjp]

Stewart at 27??

[comrade]

Stewart at 27??

Too high?

[GVGjr]

The add another key forward in O'Brien. They stick to their plans don't they?

[GVGjr]

Too high?

I think so.

[Mofra]

The add another key forward in O'Brien. They stick to their plans don't they?
I'd prefer too many tall forwards than not enough.

[Eastdog]

Our next somewhere in the 40s I think.

[bulldogsman]

I think so.

Me too.

Still no Garlett...

[comrade]

Me too.

Still no Garlett...

I'm staggered that someone who is supposedly so good hasn't been picked yet. Surely, he's not that bad off field?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Our next somewhere in the 40s I think.

Yes, but already decided, we must pick Hunter.
Our next live pick is 51? or is it 50?

[jeemak]

Me neither. Does this indicate that we see Stringer as a forward?

I've been saying for a while that we desperately need a utility that predominantly plays and can significantly influence a game forward and midfield. Maybe the coaching staff see Stringer being a player that can fill that need.

[GVGjr]

If he is available we should take Garlett. Lets back Brett Goodes to do his job.

[comrade]

If he is available we should take Garlett. Lets back Brett Goodes to do his job.

Can't see it happening to be honest. Can you?

[Ghost Dog]

CLubs going slower now. Takes time to sort through the later picks.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

If he is available we should take Garlett. Lets back Brett Goodes to do his job.

Saints took their time, in picking Saunders. Wonder if they were thinking hard about Garlett?

[GVGjr]

Can't see it happening to be honest. Can you?

Surely the risk is minimized now?

[The Underdog]

If he is available we should take Garlett. Lets back Brett Goodes to do his job.

Agree completely. Talent wise will be a mile ahead of anyone else available. Still can't see it.

[GVGjr]

Damn, I wanted Marsh to the Dogs

[G-Mo77]

Saints look stressed. Hope they stuff it all up.

[Cyberdoggie]

A few more W.A. boys taken than expected MJP?

[Murphy'sLore]

Would love to see us take the punt, now we've got some safe picks in the bank.

[NoName]

Like the look of Stringer.

[Pickenitup]

Membrey for us at 51 surely?

[GVGjr]

Membrey for us at 51 surely?
He's probably right in the mix.

[comrade]

I can see Swans taking Garlett with their next pick, if WC doesn't.

[bulldogsman]

Some reasonable players still around. Nick Graham, Rory Atkins, Tim Membrey, Sam Colquhoun and of course Garlett. Atkins is another favourite of mine :)

[GVGjr]

Some players reasonable players still around. Nick Graham, Rory Atkins, Tim Membrey, Sam Colquhoun and of course Garlett. Atkins is another favourite of mine :)


Some good names there. We have had a sniff at Atkins haven't we?

[josie]

Indiscretions serious enough to have all clubs spooked. Not sure Garlett is worth the risk.

[Ghost Dog]

Pick 50 Joshua Prudden --- anyone know of this guy??

[Mofra]

Prudden?

Edit: Another inside mid, from Seymour

[comrade]

Kid doesn't even have a bio.

[soupman]

Pick 50 Joshua Prudden --- anyone know of this guy??

Alledgedly another inside mid

[bulldogsman]

Josh Prudden an inside midfielder from Murray bushrangers. I'll do a write-up later, not overly happy with this one

[SlimPickens]

Prudden surprised but understand he has been at the club a bit so we must see something

[josie]

Does anyone have any knowledge of Joshua Pruden?

[GVGjr]

A few of us have been talking about Prudden. He was down at the club a little while back

[Murphy'sLore]

Josh Prudden an inside midfielder from Murray bushrangers. I'll do a write-up later, not overly happy with this one

ANOTHER one???

[Ghost Dog]

Jeezus wake me up when we get to pick 84

[soupman]

From inside football:

Josh Prudden, 182cm, 76kg. Murray Bushrangers
"He is an assumption college boy who had limited time with us due to his time at school. He is an inside midfielder who is super clean around the footy and makes great decisions disposing of the ball under pressure. He played in the senior gvfl grand final with Srymour this year.

[The Underdog]

God AFL clubs are a bunch of soft cocks

[Eastdog]

There will be a lot more passes now.

[DOG GOD]

Surprised colquhoun hasn't gone yet...or have I missed him?

[Remi Moses]

Is McCartney not going to be content until we have a team of inside mids?

[GVGjr]

Surprised colquhoun hasn't gone yet...or have I missed him?

Still available. I think there is a query on his pace

[Ghost Dog]

So how does it work if they pass?
McCartney looks set to find the winning mix in the midfield or bust. Once he has it, will trade for other positions.

[comrade]

Do we have another live pick or is it all upgrades from here?

[GVGjr]

So how does it work if they pass?

The can't pick other players unless it's rookie elevations.

[soupman]

Is McCartney not going to be content until we have a team of inside mids?

At least many supporters wish of having a team of Pickens may come to fruition.

[divvydan]

We have one more live pick, but we might pass and use it in PSD.

[Pickenitup]

How Good Does Jake Stringer Speak so much energy Glad we have him Big Boy Already!

[The Underdog]

Do we have another live pick or is it all upgrades from here?

We've got one more if we choose to use it

[EasternWest]

Just heard Stringer speak for the first time. Seemed like a pretty grounded, simple (in a good way) kid. I was impressed.

[G-Mo77]

Is McCartney not going to be content until we have a team of inside mids?

Players don't always play in the positions they at under 18 level. Don't understand what the big deal is to be honest.

[comrade]

Urgh, if we pass we know Prismall is on his way.

[DOG GOD]

Urgh, if we pass we know Prismall is on his way.

Please don't pass.

[Bulldog4life]

Is McCartney not going to be content until we have a team of inside mids?

When Geelong was on top all their mids could get their own ball. What's the problem?

[whythelongface]

How long does it take St Kilda to make a selection!!

[GVGjr]

When Geelong was on top all their mids could get their own ball. What's the problem?

Exactly. We can always teach them some other tricks

[G-Mo77]

How long does it take St Kilda to make a selection!!

Because they're muppets.

[comrade]

Does Calder have an amazing development program or do they attract a superior quality of junior footballers? Absolute draft pick machine.

[jeemak]

From inside football:

Josh Prudden, 182cm, 76kg. Murray Bushrangers
"He is an assumption college boy who had limited time with us due to his time at school. He is an inside midfielder who is super clean around the footy and makes great decisions disposing of the ball under pressure. He played in the senior gvfl grand final with Srymour this year.

I like the words clean, great and pressure when it comes to player disposal.

If he's athletic enough, I'm sure we can instruct him to be the receive player and make good decisions with the ball.

Some people need to relax and let the professionals do their job and the kids develop rather than getting in a huff five minutes after a name has been called in the 50's at the draft table.

[NoName]

Please don't pass.

we passed.

[Eastdog]

Was great hearing Stringer and MacRae speak and they both look excited in joining us and doing the pre season.

[GVGjr]

Does Calder have an amazing development program or do they attract a superior quality of junior footballers? Absolute draft pick machine.

A combination of a few things I think.

[comrade]

Might as well have the Welcome Prismall thread ready to go, GVG.

Surely Garlett is worth a shot compared to a guy who is just a battler with major injury problems.

[G-Mo77]

Might as well have the Welcome Prismall thread ready to go, GVG.

Surely Garlett is worth a shot compared to a guy who is just a battler with major injury problems.

That's my thoughts. I'd rather take a gamble on a kid than pick up a broken down has been that never was.

[DOG GOD]

Thre must be some massive concerns with garlett not getting picked up, not even with pick 100

[GVGjr]

Might as well have the Welcome Prismall thread ready to go, GVG.

Surely Garlett is worth a shot compared to a guy who is just a battler with major injury problems.

Plenty can happen Comrade :)

[comrade]

That's my thoughts. I'd rather take a gamble on a kid than pick up a broken down has been that never was.

He fits 2 major criteria though. Not a dickhead and has played at Geelong :D

[SlimPickens]

Cannot believe Garlett didn't get picked up. Has scared them off the recruiters big time.

Happy with our picks, don't know much about Prudden but rate Dalrymples late selections in the past so will back his judgement.

[G-Mo77]

He fits 2 major criteria though. Not a dickhead and has played at Geelong :D

Another criteria is running something Prismal can't do, he's barely been able to walk without a limp for most of his career.

[Hotdog60]

Cannot believe Garlett didn't get picked up. Has scared them off the recruiters big time.

Happy with our picks, don't know much about Prudden but rate Dalrymples late selections in the past so will back his judgement.

There's video of highlights on the bulldogs site. Seems hard at it and a reasonable kick.

[Eastdog]

If Garlett gets picked up now it will be a very good get very late on.

[comrade]

Good to see that we've picked up some left footers. Prudden's kicking looks tight enough and he seems to know his way around a contest.

Which players surprised you in not getting picked?

[The Cowshed]

Staggered Gartlett wasn't picked up...was thinking yes, we'll get him at pick 84, then PASS!

[GVGjr]

Garlett, Saad and Hannath spring to mind

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I like the words clean, great and pressure when it comes to player disposal.

If he's athletic enough, I'm sure we can instruct him to be the receive player and make good decisions with the ball.

Some people need to relax and let the professionals do their job and the kids develop rather than getting in a huff five minutes after a name has been called in the 50's at the draft table.

Don't have a problem with this selection, based on the bio. I think we addressed the main areas we needed to, making sure we addressed skill with our first 3 picks.
Don't see an issue adding another inside mid, at pick 50 -and from the bio, he's seems like he can use the ball well, so that's a tick from me.

[LostDoggy]

God AFL clubs are a bunch of soft cocks

A lot of people querying Garlett not being picked up.

Every recruitment team passed on him.

There is lot we don't know....for instance do we know if as part of draftee testing, drug testing is done? If so do we know if Garlett passed? Not suggesting he is a druggie, but there is simply too much we don't know.

Clubs are now corporate animals and reliant on corporate dollars, and simply can't afford to take high risk players. Look at Richmond's worries with Martin and Connors and possibly costing them a finals place this year. Look at Pies losing a TAC sponsorship for a bloke who isn't there anymore. Same with Tiges TAC sponsorship.

Don't think its being soft, its just being realistic.

[F'scary]

Stringer: 1.91m & 91kg at 18yo.

Stringer = the new Tony Lockett?

If FF, then a few things are sorted out:

Cordy = Ruckman
Jones = CHF
Grant = HFF/FP.

I'd hate to see Stringer rotated around position after position filling gaps.

Stringer = FF.

[The Underdog]

A lot of people querying Garlett not being picked up.

Every recruitment team passed on him.

There is lot we don't know....for instance do we know if as part of draftee testing, drug testing is done? If so do we know if Garlett passed? Not suggesting he is a druggie, but there is simply too much we don't know.

Clubs are now corporate animals and reliant on corporate dollars, and simply can't afford to take high risk players. Look at Richmond's worries with Martin and Connors and possibly costing them a finals place this year. Look at Pies losing a TAC sponsorship for a bloke who isn't there anymore. Same with Tiges TAC sponsorship.

Don't think its being soft, its just being realistic.

Because there'd be no kid who got picked up tonight who might have used drugs or had disciplinary issues. Have some backbone and back in your "culture" and "leaders".

[comrade]

Look at Pies losing a TAC sponsorship for a bloke who isn't there anymore. Same with Tiges TAC sponsorship.

Don't think its being soft, its just being realistic.

Those rumours of Garlett desecrating a taco shell might be true. :D

[LostDoggy]

Because there'd be no kid who got picked up tonight who might have used drugs or had disciplinary issues. Have some backbone and back in your "culture" and "leaders".

Not speaking about Garlett, but some people are recidivists, some people are just shit people who won't change no matter what opportunity given to them.

Specifically on Garlett, people are seeing warning signs with Garlett getting kicked out of the AIS, and if he couldn't hold his shit together pre-draft when is he ever going to???

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[F'scary]

Do not understand the pass. Who will be available in PSD that was not in this draft. Wasn't Prismall in the ND?

[bulldogsman]

Don't have a problem with this selection, based on the bio. I think we addressed the main areas we needed to, making sure we addressed skill with our first 3 picks.
Don't see an issue adding another inside mid, at pick 50 -and from the bio, he's seems like he can use the ball well, so that's a tick from me.

I don't have an issue with a another inside mid. I do have an issue on the players we overlooked though. Atkins and Garlett were the two I'm disappointed we didn't take. Time will only tell.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'm just happy we took Stringer.
Might turn out to be the 'Buddy' of this draft.

Compared to the top 5 he's the unique beast.

Might be tearing teams apart in 2 or 3 years.

For those who think he may be just an early developer bully.
Check his performances in the VFL, AFTER his broken leg.

A cult hero in the making.

[G-Mo77]

Do not understand the pass. Who will be available in PSD that was not in this draft. Wasn't Prismall in the ND?

I don't think so.

[Doc26]

Do not understand the pass. Who will be available in PSD that was not in this draft. Wasn't Prismall in the ND?

Numerous will be available, Prismall, Bate, Petterd etc etc. Not sure if they nominated for the ND.

[mjp]

Not speaking about Garlett, but some people are recidivists, some people are just shit people who won't change no matter what opportunity given to them.

Specifically on Garlett, people are seeing warning signs with Garlett getting kicked out of the AIS, and if he couldn't hold his shit together pre-draft when is he ever going to???

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yep. Kicked out of the AIS because he went to schoolies instead of attending AIS camp. He is immature. And Harley Bennell got sent home from the AIS tour to South Africa and that seems to have turned out OK.

[soupman]

Do not understand the pass. Who will be available in PSD that was not in this draft. Wasn't Prismall in the ND?

Who was available in the ND that won't be in the PSD?

This gives another couple of weeks to assess who's left, maybe have players train with us, conduct interviews on players we weren't sure on yet and even more tedious highlight video watching.

It basically gives us pick 1 in the rookie draft, with the added bonus that they are on our main list.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I don't have an issue with a another inside mid. I do have an issue on the players we overlooked though. Atkins and Garlett were the two I'm disappointed we didn't take. Time will only tell.

I'm certainly not well versed in rating the talent available, especially outside of the wlel known top few prospects, so I'm in no position to defend this selection over other kids we overlooked.
I do wonder whether given discipline/off field issues amongst one or two of our young kids this year, whether this made us particularly gun-shy over selecting Garlett.
Perhaps our coaches felt that at this stage of our list development we are not well positioned to cope with any potential disruptive elements. And I'm not saying Garlett is a bad kid. I'm just wondering out aloud whether perhaps right now our decisions tonight were guided more on focussing on adding and building leadership as the first priority?

[FrediKanoute]

Yep. Kicked out of the AIS because he went to schoolies instead of attending AIS camp. He is immature. And Harley Bennell got sent home from the AIS tour to South Africa and that seems to have turned out OK.

MJP I am with you on this. I think yes the guy has issues, and that is enough not to take him in the top 50, but when you get to the end of the draft and he is still there......take the punt. No one is going to bat an eyelid at cokcing up a pick in the 80's, but if the punt works (and on talent alone Garlett has the talent) then you not only look like a genius, but the team wins.....big time.

To dare is the to........

[The Bulldogs Bite]

MJP I am with you on this. I think yes the guy has issues, and that is enough not to take him in the top 50, but when you get to the end of the draft and he is still there......take the punt. No one is going to bat an eyelid at cokcing up a pick in the 80's, but if the punt works (and on talent alone Garlett has the talent) then you not only look like a genius, but the team wins.....big time.

To dare is the to........

I'm amazed/shocked/astonished that he didn't get picked up.

Must be something more to it.

[Sedat]

MJP I am with you on this. I think yes the guy has issues, and that is enough not to take him in the top 50, but when you get to the end of the draft and he is still there......take the punt. No one is going to bat an eyelid at cokcing up a pick in the 80's, but if the punt works (and on talent alone Garlett has the talent) then you not only look like a genius, but the team wins.....big time.

To dare is the to........
Yep, we urinated a 70's pick down the drain on Shane Thorne, followed up the year after on a late hail mary selection on Zeph. FFS, roll the dice and back in your culture and leaders to get the best out of an elite talent.

More fool every club for being so conservative.

[comrade]

Yep, we urinated a 70's pick down the drain on Shane Thorne, followed up the year after on a late hail mary selection on Zeph. FFS, roll the dice and back in your culture and leaders to get the best out of an elite talent.

More fool every club for being so conservative.

Aren't you arguing against picking Garlett with those examples?

Talented indigenous kids with questionable attitudes haven't exactly worked out for us in the past.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I guess we weren't the only team who ignored him with 'junk picks' seems crazy but there must be some HUGE issues there.

[Sedat]

Aren't you arguing against picking Garlett with those examples?

Talented indigenous kids with questionable attitudes haven't exactly worked out for us in the past.
Neither Thorne nor Skinner were elite 18yos who had proven themselves at national U18 nor state level - they were journeymen in their early 20's who were one in a million chances.

[LostDoggy]

Newsflash! All 18 clubs passed on Garlett, should that not tell people something?

[LostDoggy]

Yep. Kicked out of the AIS because he went to schoolies instead of attending AIS camp. He is immature. And Harley Bennell got sent home from the AIS tour to South Africa and that seems to have turned out OK.

And you are absolutely certain that Garlett getting kicked out of the AIS and a few questionable decisions on smoking, drinking and social media is all he has done?

Are you really sure?

Do you really think 18 cut throat professional clubs looking for an edge at almost any cost would all not take a 'Top 5' talent because of these issues.

Do you really think that all 18 clubs would be so stupid and weak. Or is there perhaps even a slight possibility that you and a few others don't actually know the full story of Garlett?

[jeemak]

And you are absolutely certain that Garlett getting kicked out of the AIS and a few questionable decisions on smoking, drinking and social media is all he has done?

Are you really sure?

Do you really think 18 cut throat professional clubs looking for an edge at almost any cost would all not take a 'Top 5' talent because of these issues.

Do you really think that all 18 clubs would be so stupid and weak. Or is there perhaps even a slight possibility that you and a few others don't actually know the full story of Garlett?

Perth's a small town. I'm not too sure there'd be many people in MJP's position that don't know a lot more about Garlett than most of the other AFL recruiters.

Without speaking for him, I think MJP is suggesting he is that freakishly talented the risk of throwing a late pick at him is outweighed by the potential benefit to your club down the track. Getting the kid in to a professional environment might just be the thing he needs to push him along.

My personal feelings on this right now are that irrespective of whether we picked him up, or another team picked him up I hope he has some really excellent support around him. His position would be a bloody difficult one to navigate for an immature kid.

If clubs didn't think he'd be worth a senior list spot, I'd be very surprised if they didn't think a rookie spot would be worthwhile.

[LostDoggy]

Heard B-Mac on SEN after the draft and he made some interesting comments.
He was asked which draftees was he expecting to play seniors next season and it was Hrovat he named.
He was also strong again on character of the individuals drafted. He commented that it was better to get "good people & people of good character" into the club and on field skills can be taught later.
I guess the whole Garlett issue came down to that.
I think that clubs are terrified of taking on perceived bad eggs because bad publicity makes it harder to attract sponsors.
From our perspective we probably dont have the number of members or sponsorship dollars to risk on a Garlett not being successful.

Personally I feel that most recruiters dont do a good job. If you look at the number of rookies that eventually get upgraded and then look at the number of guys that are cut each year from primary lists, it shows that they dont know much at all. Way too many misses.
Look at Dalhaus, he went from Williamstown reserves to being an important part of our on-field senior team in a matter of months, yet not one recruiter felt he was worthy of being put on a primary list. At the end of 2011 he had become so important to us, I doubt we would have traded him for anything lower than a top 10 pick.

[LostDoggy]

Perth's a small town. I'm not too sure there'd be many people in MJP's position that don't know a lot more about Garlett than most of the other AFL recruiters.

Without speaking for him, I think MJP is suggesting he is that freakishly talented the risk of throwing a late pick at him is outweighed by the potential benefit to your club down the track. Getting the kid in to a professional environment might just be the thing he needs to push him along.

My personal feelings on this right now are that irrespective of whether we picked him up, or another team picked him up I hope he has some really excellent support around him. His position would be a bloody difficult one to navigate for an immature kid.

If clubs didn't think he'd be worth a senior list spot, I'd be very surprised if they didn't think a rookie spot would be worthwhile.

Mate I lived in Perth for ten years, and I know that the Eagles and to a lesser extent Freo literally run that town. I would be massively surprised if the Eagles and Freo's recruiting networks and local plugged in knowledge doesn't just shade MJPs (no disrespect to MJP), yet they didn't pick Garlett up.....

[jeemak]

Mate I lived in Perth for ten years, and I know that the Eagles and to a lesser extent Freo literally run that town. I would be massively surprised if the Eagles and Freo's recruiting networks and local plugged in knowledge doesn't just shade MJPs (no disrespect to MJP), yet they didn't pick Garlett up.....

Fair enough. They'd have their own reasons for not taking him, and they obviously didn't think the risk in doing so were outweighed by the potential he has. They also might have realised that if taken, it would be very hard for him to make whatever changes they deemed necessary for him to become an AFL footballer living amongst the same influences that he currently is. Just a thought.

Fremantle's and West Coast's recruiters are just as prone to getting it right, or wrong as everyone elses. Conventional wisdom isn't always the best indicator of what's right and wrong, it will be interesting to see how things pan out in the PND and RD.

[bornadog]

And you are absolutely certain that Garlett getting kicked out of the AIS and a few questionable decisions on smoking, drinking and social media is all he has done?

Are you really sure?

Do you really think 18 cut throat professional clubs looking for an edge at almost any cost would all not take a 'Top 5' talent because of these issues.

Do you really think that all 18 clubs would be so stupid and weak. Or is there perhaps even a slight possibility that you and a few others don't actually know the full story of Garlett?

You have no idea who MJP is do you?

Please don't question his knowledge when you don't have any inside information.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Doesn't matter what pick is used to pick up Garlett. The risk is still essentially the same: He could cause publicity issues for the club meaning lost sponsorship, fans etc and have a negative affect on young team mates destroying club culture. Sure a failed pick 80 is nothing compared to a failed pick 21 but saying he was worth the punt as it was only a pick in the 80s ignores the fact that if he is on the list he is risking potential lost sponsors and fans. THAT is the risk. Not wasting a pick

[LostDoggy]

You have no idea who MJP is do you?

Please don't question his knowledge when you don't have any inside information.

Flip it around, please don't question the 18 recruitment departments of the AFL clubs when you don't have any inside information.

[Maddog37]

You have no idea who MJP is do you?

Please don't question his knowledge when you don't have any inside information.

Surely people can state their opinions regardless of who they are conversing with BAD. :)

[Bulldog4life]

Surely people can state their opinions regardless of who they are conversing with BAD. :)

Thinking the same thing. Surely this forum is just not for people "in the know".

[jeemak]

Flip it around, please don't question the 18 recruitment departments of the AFL clubs when you don't have any inside information.

I think what's trying to be said is that in this case we might be dealling with somebody that has more intimate knowledge of the kid than the 18 clubs and their respective recruiters........

[LostDoggy]

I think what's trying to be said is that in this case we might be dealling with somebody that has more intimate knowledge of the kid than the 18 clubs and their respective recruiters........

If that is indeed the case, state your credentials in relation to this issue, otherwise you are just another anonymous poster.

I appreciate the polite way you have communicated Jeemak.

Having checked a few of his posts to see if his recent post was a one off, I find the communication methods of BAD to be quite condescending and quite poor. Is there an ignore function on this forum, I'd really rather not have to read his 'work' and there does appear to be quite a lot of it.

[jazzadogs]

Flip it around, please don't question the 18 recruitment departments of the AFL clubs when you don't have any inside information.
I don't know MJP personally but I think its safe to say he has inside information. If there is one opinion on this board you can trust, its MJPs. Doesn't mean you have to agree, of course.

[LostDoggy]

I don't know MJP personally but I think its safe to say he has inside information. If there is one opinion on this board you can trust, its MJPs. Doesn't mean you have to agree, of course.

Thanks for the insight, it doesn't really matter if I agree with MJP :o, its the fact that in this case 18 clubs (and their vast networks) didn't agree with him that does matter.

Anway good luck to Garlett, hope life works out for him.

[G-Mo77]

Having checked a few of his posts to see if his recent post was a one off, I find the communication methods of BAD to be quite condescending and quite poor. Is there an ignore function on this forum, I'd really rather not have to read his 'work' and there does appear to be quite a lot of it.

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist

Just type the user in the ignore list.

You won't see any posts of the user that you ignore after that.

[SlimPickens]

Anyway good luck to Garlett, hope life works out for him.

This may be the kick up the arse he needs to sort some stuff out. There is no doubting Dayle is a talented kid but clubs are just so worried about getting burnt these days that the risk clearly outweighs the reward.

Must admit the other big surprise for me on draft day was Colquhoun not getting drafted, would have thought his decision making and his ability to accurately distribute the ball by foot would have had him in sight of the clubs.

He'd be one I'd be keen to look at, at the PSD. Has anyone got a Fletcher Roberts type in mind this year?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Newsflash! All 18 clubs passed on Garlett, should that not tell people something?

Jesus are there 18 clubs now? I've got to get out more. That really is an unwieldy number.

It's as if there was a united front not to pick Garlett. Surely it will be in his best interest, the message to him is clear: no matter how talented, he will not be an AFL player unless he is committed and professional, or at least tow the line. Having said that I would have taken him with our later pick in a blink.
Love our new boys, lots of leftie power and we have a club of midfielders of which the rebellious gladitorial army would be proud.

[jeemak]

If that is indeed the case, state your credentials in relation to this issue, otherwise you are just another anonymous poster.

I appreciate the polite way you have communicated Jeemak.

Having checked a few of his posts to see if his recent post was a one off, I find the communication methods of BAD to be quite condescending and quite poor. Is there an ignore function on this forum, I'd really rather not have to read his 'work' and there does appear to be quite a lot of it.

BAD's a pussy cat. Don't stress if his communication can be a bit direct.

He posts a lot of good information, and when the footy starts he has pretty good insight.

[Rance Fan]

Hey guys whats the selection order for the AFL pre-season and rookie drafts?

[hujsh]

Since when are the AFL recruiting departments infallible. All clubs have screwed up their assessments of players time and again (and the examples of this are too numerous to mention) so when someone with personal connections to a player speaks up I think it's worth noting, rather than dismissing.

I also don't think we should necessarily have blind faith in our recruiting networks. Expressing concerns as happened in 2009 when we drafted Howard and Tutt is fine (and in hindsight justified somewhat) and our decision to overlook Garlett should be questioned and analyzed. Mjp offers a deeper perspective here to about how big or small a risk this guy would be and the potential upside he could bring.

It certainly feels like we've lost a big opportunity here to get one up on all the other clubs and given all the concessions that GWS and GC have received it's exactly the kind of move that we should make if we don't want to be fodder when all those kids come good

[Ozza]

Pre-draft - I was in favour of taking a risk and picking up Gartlett.

But if he is indeed the most talented kid in the land, or even in the top 10 - and every club have bypassed him - then something smells.

[Mofra]

Mate I lived in Perth for ten years, and I know that the Eagles and to a lesser extent Freo literally run that town. I would be massively surprised if the Eagles and Freo's recruiting networks and local plugged in knowledge doesn't just shade MJPs (no disrespect to MJP), yet they didn't pick Garlett up.....
I wouldn't suggest they are infallible - Murray Newman is on charges and just got beaten in a time-trial by his 44 year old coach!
This is not long after the scandals about Eagles culture have emerged in the preceding few years.

Gartlett issues aside, they should not be assumed to be great judges of personality.

[Ghost Dog]

You have no idea who MJP is do you?

Please don't question his knowledge when you don't have any inside information.

Emma Quayle on Garlett

But Thursday night was also about who missed out. Every year, there are plenty. But not all of them have the talent of Dayle Garlett, who played some breathtaking football for Western Australia and Swan Districts this year and has everything clubs want: extreme pace, extreme skill, an ability to make a match all about him.
The problem was his off-field issues, the trouble he has gotten himself into. Early this week it became clear that 14 clubs wouldn't take the risk on him, at any pick. By the later rounds of the draft, as clubs started to promote rookies and pass on picks, it became clear that none were willing to take him on. They couldn't find a way to justify it.
Nor could they find a way to add Shannon Taylor, Chris Yarran or Marvin Worrell, talented teenagers who lack a strong work ethic. Nor could they give the likes of Daniel Connors, Kyle Reimers or Jason
Gram, all of whom have had their off-field discipline questioned, another opportunity.
How important is character? ''It's massively important, because the demands of the game are at a level we've never seen before,'' said Sydney's recruiting manager Kinnear Beatson.
''They've got to be able to deal with the increased training load, to deal with all of the meetings, they've got to come to terms with the greater accountability, and if their history suggests they struggle in those areas, they're probably not going to get any better.
''This draft's proved that. If you're considering a player and thinking, 'Two-year contract, $250,0000 investment, how will your senior players react to this kid…' you might go for the safe option. It's not a cheap investment.''


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/character-is-draft-buzz-word-20121122-29te1.html#ixzz2D0LqTL8j

No disrespect to anyone in here, but in the forum guidelines it states it's not great to jump in to defend mates and start having a go at others.
I think people are more than capable of defending themselves. Be nice.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldn't suggest they are infallible - Murray Newman is on charges and just got beaten in a time-trial by his 44 year old coach!
This is not long after the scandals about Eagles culture have emerged in the preceding few years.

Gartlett issues aside, they should not be assumed to be great judges of personality.

I agree, no-one is infallible, be they parents or coaches of players or recruiters.

[boydogs]

If that is indeed the case, state your credentials in relation to this issue, otherwise you are just another anonymous poster.

Play the ball not the man mate.

There are people involved in footy, with the club or who have contacts at the club that post here who may wish to remain anonymous, and that is fair enough. Just stick to the content of their posts and there won't be an issue.

[bornadog]

If that is indeed the case, state your credentials in relation to this issue, otherwise you are just another anonymous poster.

I appreciate the polite way you have communicated Jeemak.

Having checked a few of his posts to see if his recent post was a one off, I find the communication methods of BAD to be quite condescending and quite poor. Is there an ignore function on this forum, I'd really rather not have to read his 'work' and there does appear to be quite a lot of it.

Not meant to be. Sometimes you have to back off when clearly the other poster is in the know.

[Dazza]

After seeing Garletts photo with the hashtag 'cooked' next to it. I wouldn't want him even in the rookie draft.

[GVGjr]

Regarding Garlett, I don't see enough downside not to select him because the upside is enormous.
He's hugely talented and a potential match winner but that is countered by the fact that he is immature and somewhat unreliable.
To that end we should draft him and set-up a good support process much like we should do with every interstate youngster we select.

If he responds well then we have a great outcome but if he stuffs up then he spends the majority of his time at Williamstown under Brett Goodes and Peter Germans supervision.

One consideration that may weigh heavily for the club is perhaps we already have sufficient challenges we need to be working on within our current playing list and we don't think we have the resources to take on more.

[LongWait]

Regarding Garlett, I don't see enough downside not to select him because the upside is enormous.
He's hugely talented and a potential match winner but that is countered by the fact that he is immature and somewhat unreliable.
To that end we should draft him and set-up a good support process much like we should do with every interstate youngster we select.

If he responds well then we have a great outcome but if he stuffs up then he spends the majority of his time at Williamstown under Brett Goodes and Peter Germans supervision.

One consideration that may weigh heavily for the club is perhaps we already have sufficient challenges we need to be working on within our current playing list and we don't think we have the resources to take on more.

I thought Dayle might have been a good get GVG but the rumors that are circulating about Garlett's lifestyle and some of the stories of his work ethic and commitment issues have me a lot more worried than I was pre the draft.

Essendon have sought permission for him to train as I understand it. Looks like they'll consider him. Someone will probably take the risk.

Perhaps the kid needs to spend a year at WAFL level showing he wants an AFL career and that he can clean up his lifestyle before he'll be drafted.

[LostDoggy]

Richmond took the risk with Martin and have lost a player out of it and could still lose him as well. Buddy paid off with sheer work invested by the hawks team including the spin department. I'd hate to take Garlett and lose both he and Libba in two years. Easier by far to take Hayes and invest for mine. A champion team will beat a team of champions with issues.

[The Underdog]

Richmond took the risk with Martin and have lost a player out of it and could still lose him as well. Buddy paid off with sheer work invested by the hawks team including the spin department. I'd hate to take Garlett and lose both he and Libba in two years. Easier by far to take Hayes and invest for mine. A champion team will beat a team of champions with issues.

West Coasts premiership says otherwise. Hawthorn's too. And Connors is way more responsible for his own demise than Martin was.

[Ghost Dog]

West Coast would never get away with half of that stuff these days. Plus the fact is they lost Judd because he got fed up with the culture of the club. Let's not mention Chris Mainwaring either and how much the Eagle's culture contributed to his life choices. It's not all about winning premierships. West Coasts wins during that period will forever be suspect with the question of drugs.

Not sure about the point you are making with Hawthorn and how their premiership is relevant. Do you know something I don't?

I'd be open to drafting Garlett if he had a water-tight contract and were at a stronger development phase.
Our issues with Liberatore during the recent season suggest that leadership could be improved.
AFL represents a section of society and there will always be these things coming up, as they do in the 'outside' world.
On the flip side, issues ( drugs and alcohol ) in the media drain not only the footy department, but sap mindfulness of young players, of which we have many.

[LostDoggy]

I thought Dayle might have been a good get GVG but the rumors that are circulating about Garlett's lifestyle and some of the stories of his work ethic and commitment issues have me a lot more worried than I was pre the draft.

Essendon have sought permission for him to train as I understand it. Looks like they'll consider him. Someone will probably take the risk.

Perhaps the kid needs to spend a year at WAFL level showing he wants an AFL career and that he can clean up his lifestyle before he'll be drafted.

I would consider him as a rookie and let him spend 12 months in WA. Best case he become a superstar per L Jetta and we either bring him to Melbourne or trade him to a WA team. If he's that good surely he's worth a rookie list place. I think sometimes clubs can suffer a little herd-like behavior and follow each others opinion. I just see massive upside in an area we are deficient in. Then again he might not make it to rookie draft.

[mjp]

Wow. Look what happens when you don't log on for a couple of days.

1/.As per GD's comments, I am happy to stand up for myself (though do appreciate the thoughts of those who jumped in on my behalf).

2/.The whole 'do you know who MJP is' stuff is hard for me to read and why I try not to post too much on the forum re- the draft, u18's, national champs etc. In any case, to post at all I need to remain semi-anonymous (those who know, know - those who don't, don't) and try to state things as opinion rather that fact.

3/.I think I am as close to Dayle and the issues with Dayle as anyone outside of the Swan Districts footy club. I have a couple of stories I would share that reflect positively on the friendship and commitment that Dayle have shown to me but instead will provide a link to the West Australian from last week:

Quote (This is Phil Smart talking):
He told his own story of Garlett and close friend, Eagle Murray Newman, currently in a pickle of his own for an alleged nightclub incident and returning to pre-season training relatively out of shape.

"I had been out here for about six months and we had torrential rain and I was doing some work at the back of my house," he said.

"My retaining wall hadn't gone up and the neighbour's fence and dirt was collapsing into my pool."

Smart wasn't able to get home at the time.

"I rang Dayle and Murray and asked them if there was any chance of them getting over to my house to see what they could do," he said.

"I couldn't leave the club and I couldn't get anyone else.

"They went out there at 5pm and they finished on the shovels at 9pm, just digging sand and dirt and trying to keep it out of my pool, otherwise the whole thing would have gone in."
Link: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/afl/15465058/more-to-garlett-than-eye-can-see/

I honestly believe Dayle is the BEST player to have ever gone undrafted. You can talk about talented players who have missed out - from WA this year the names Marvin Warrell, Shannon Taylor and Chris DeLuca spring immediately to mind - for reasons of work-rate, body size, whatever...but in terms of someone who has performed at the highest level - u16's, u18's championships - (and I dont mean showed flashes...I mean REALLY performed at a higher level than anyone else on the ground) and SENIOR level (3 goals in league 2nd semi this year, 2 more in the prelim) I cannot think of anyone who has ever been better than Dayle.

Is he immature? Yes. Is he really unsure of himself and how to speak to AFL clubs given the negativity swirling around him for > 6 months? Yes. You read that Jack Darling turned his off-field issues into a positive during interviews, telling clubs he is a stronger person now etc etc - Dayle simply isn't capable of doing that no matter how much work people do with him re- spin and strategies...further more, if everyone understood the nature of the questions asked of players at the interviews - many of whom are just 17 - you would be horrified.

Do I really care that the Bulldogs didn't draft him? Of course I do. I have been a member for a really long time and want the club to have success...I also like watching good players and I am convinced that Dayle will be one of those. Am I embittered that NO clubs drafted him? Absolutely. As an industry we all talk about talent pathways and support networks and all of that, but when push comes to shove everyone wants to play it safe.

If it costs $250K per draftee, who would you rather spend the money on. Someone who will be a great citizen and - best case scenario - will play 100 senior games. Or someone who has unique abilities, has been a stand out performer at every level he has played and best case scenario wins multiple B&F awards and becomes a legend of the club. Is there risk with option 2? Of course there is...but shouldn't we all be swinging for the fences and backing in the processes we have in place to make sure things don't go awry?

Hell, the first time he has 7 bounces and kicks a goal (like he did in the 1's for Swans this year) the club who has listed him will sell 1000 footy jumpers with his name on the back...surely that will go someway towards paying off the investment (if it is all about $) even if the goal didn't.

[stefoid]

MJP, in all seriusnes, why not have a chat with the coach about it?

[Remi Moses]

He said he's gotta leave WA.
Someone will rookie him, no doubt.
Does he fall under the "Jack the lad"category?

[LostDoggy]

Wow. Look what happens when you don't log on for a couple of days.

....The whole 'do you know who MJP is' stuff is hard for me to read and why I try not to post too much on the forum re- the draft, u18's, national champs etc. In any case, to post at all I need to remain semi-anonymous (those who know, know - those who don't, don't) and try to state things as opinion rather that fact.

3/.I think I am as close to Dayle and the issues with Dayle as anyone outside of the Swan Districts footy club. I have a couple of stories I would share that reflect positively on the friendship and commitment that Dayle have shown to me but instead will provide a link to the West Australian from last week:


MJP - appreciate your insights. Apologies if came on too strong in earlier posts, as was not aware of your relationship with Dayle, and this might have been a bit close to home.

Having said that you've indicated you are as close to him as anyone outside of Swan Districts.

Noting that we have Ash Hansen on staff.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/afl/15448066/ex-eagle-hansen-joins-bulldogs-coaching-staff/

And given Ash was part of Swan Districts recently, what do you think is the input Ash offered into the decision to not recruit Dayle - surely he was asked?

Your thoughts appreciated.

[mjp]

Unsure but Ash Hansen is a ripping bloke - I am sure if asked he would have answered honestly...

[LostDoggy]

Unsure but Ash Hansen is a ripping bloke - I am sure if asked he would have answered honestly...

That leaves it open :). A few ifs and buts here..But assuming you are implying Ash agrees with you, then if Ash backed Dayle (and as a development coach his job would in part be assessed on Dayle's development), I am starting to wonder if a punt on a possible top 5 talent with one of Dayle's coaches from last year who would be responsible for developing Dayle this year, may not be so bad (again assuming Ash agrees with your assessment).

May still be a bit to play out... maybe....??

[mjp]

It has to be open because I haven't spoken to Ash. I am sure he has seen the best and worst of Dayle (and Murray Newman for that matter) in the past two years at the black ducks.

Ash wasn't a coach at Swans last year - he was the full-forward!

[Rocco Jones]

Surely a team will rookie him. What's the wage for a rookie these days? $60-70k? Do you have to offer interstate rookies 2 years anymore? Even if you do, the investment becomes less than the $250k from taking them in the National Draft.

I know it's not quite as simple as this but rookie him. Send him to your reserves/state league club until he demonsrates desired attitude. If he slips sends him back. If he continues to stuff up/stuffs up big time, get rid of him. We don't have a rookie list spot at the moment but can elevate Austin and draft Garlett. Can't see us doing it considering our great attitude thing and fact no one else has gone for him anyway.

[bornadog]

MJP mentioned interviewing players and making the interview part of the decision to recruit or not. What a bloody joke the AFL has become when talent like Garlett can't make it to an AFL club.

Do AFL clubs really think that every 17 year old kid has the confidence and ability to do an interview like a pro-athlete. Surely, clubs must re-think their strategies.

[GVGjr]

MJP mentioned interviewing players and making the interview part of the decision to recruit or not. What a bloody joke the AFL has become when talent like Garlett can't make it to an AFL club.

Do AFL clubs really think that every 17 year old kid has the confidence and ability to do an interview like a pro-athlete. Surely, clubs must re-think their strategies.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as that. I'm sure clubs make plenty of allowances within the interview process and have no expectation that the youngsters have to interview like a professional. It becomes increasingly harder though when the player you are interviewing isn't switched on, paying or attention or is displaying some traits that may not be suitable to life as a professional sportsman.

I think all of the clubs wanted to draft him but he made it almost impossible for them to do so through a combination of a number of things outside of his interviewing skills.

The interview is just one part of the process and I don't believe it was just a poor interview that moved the clubs off him.

I still want us to have another look at him and especially to see if we can put together a level of support that could make it work.

[ledge]

MJP mentioned interviewing players and making the interview part of the decision to recruit or not. What a bloody joke the AFL has become when talent like Garlett can't make it to an AFL club.

Do AFL clubs really think that every 17 year old kid has the confidence and ability to do an interview like a pro-athlete. Surely, clubs must re-think their strategies.

Or Maybe the kid is just an out and out dickhead, if all clubs passed him
Up that tells me he is a problem not the teams.
You think clubs don't take into account age and the immaturity involved of course they do.
In the end the kid has to want to play it and be prepared to pull his weight proffessionally.
Just because you are a great junior player doesn't mean you want to actually play it as a proffession, maybe he is happy just hanging out with his mates and playing with them?
Your saying how stupid clubs are but to me it's plain and simple none of the clubs think he is up to the rigours and devotion of being an AFL player.

[bornadog]

Or Maybe the kid is just an out and out dickhead, if all clubs passed him
Up that tells me he is a problem not the teams.
You think clubs don't take into account age and the immaturity involved of course they do.
In the end the kid has to want to play it and be prepared to pull his weight proffessionally.
Just because you are a great junior player doesn't mean you want to actually play it as a proffession, maybe he is happy just hanging out with his mates and playing with them?
Your saying how stupid clubs are but to me it's plain and simple none of the clubs think he is up to the rigours and devotion of being an AFL player.

Have you read MJP's post?

[GVGjr]

Your saying how stupid clubs are but to me it's plain and simple none of the clubs think he is up to the rigours and devotion of being an AFL player.

I understand where MJP and BAD are coming from and given the investment required I also understand why clubs were reluctant.

Perhaps a club could select him and work out something with Swan Districts to develop him further with the view of bringing into the AFL system the following year.

I think he is suffering more from being immature than necessarily being a bad kid.
Think back to when we were the same age and I bet a lot of us were still walking around and bumping into things.

[Ghost Dog]

I don't think it's as cut and dry as that. I'm sure clubs make plenty of allowances within the interview process and have no expectation that the youngsters have to interview like a professional. It becomes increasingly harder though when the player you are interviewing isn't switched on, paying or attention or is displaying some traits that may not be suitable to life as a professional sportsman.

I think all of the clubs wanted to draft him but he made it almost impossible for them to do so through a combination of a number of things outside of his interviewing skills.

The interview is just one part of the process and I don't believe it was just a poor interview that moved the clubs off him.

I still want us to have another look at him and especially to see if we can put together a level of support that could make it work.

The revelation of there being a child very late in the piece was not held in high regard.
Clubs should have known about that a lot earlier.

[Doc26]

The revelation of there being a child very late in the piece was not held in high regard.
Clubs should have known about that a lot earlier.

GD, I believe you're referring to Josh Simpson here, not Dayle Garlett.

The Dockers actually picked him.

[Ghost Dog]

Cheers - was getting confused.

[Bulldog4life]

If any player has discipline issues prior to being drafted I'm sure Clubs take into account whether that player can cope with the massively increased amount of discipline required to play AFL. This is not targeting Garlett but all players coming out of the junior ranks.

[LostDoggy]

Or Maybe the kid is just an out and out dickhead, if all clubs passed him
Up that tells me he is a problem not the teams.
You think clubs don't take into account age and the immaturity involved of course they do.
In the end the kid has to want to play it and be prepared to pull his weight proffessionally.
Just because you are a great junior player doesn't mean you want to actually play it as a proffession, maybe he is happy just hanging out with his mates and playing with them?
Your saying how stupid clubs are but to me it's plain and simple none of the clubs think he is up to the rigours and devotion of being an AFL player.

I'm with Ledge on this one.

Yes i realise people on the forum may know him personally, but that doesn't mean others aren't entilted to an opinion.

All 18 clubs passing on such a talent just doesn't sit right with me.

[G-Mo77]

I'm with Ledge on this one.

Yes i realise people on the forum may know him personally, but that doesn't mean others aren't entilted to an opinion.

All 18 clubs passing on such a talent just doesn't sit right with me.

Don't let others in here tell you not to have an opinion.

I'm with you, 18 clubs evaluated him and passed him up. Something isn't right.

[Mantis]

All 18 clubs passing on such a talent just doesn't sit right with me.



I'm with you, 18 clubs evaluated him and passed him up. Something isn't right.

With the level of scrutiny coming from the various stakeholders within the game I just believe clubs aren't willing to take the risk on such a player in the ND.

Rightly or wrongly taking a 'troubled' player him in the rookie draft just seems the more 'normal' course of action.

The game is becoming more and more vanilla with every ticking second... Boring in fact.

[EasternWest]

Don't let others in here tell you not to have an opinion.

I'm with you, 18 clubs evaluated him and passed him up. Something isn't right.

Yeah I agree too, BUT!

I'd still rookie him. I regard the cost as relatively negligible, and if we can help him grow up an realise his obvious potential, the payoff is massive.

If it doesn't work out, it hasn't cost us the farm.

I know there's more to it of course, but looking at it stripped back, that's my take.

[G-Mo77]

Yeah I agree too, BUT!

I'd still rookie him. I regard the cost as relatively negligible, and if we can help him grow up an realise his obvious potential, the payoff is massive.

If it doesn't work out, it hasn't cost us the farm.

I know there's more to it of course, but looking at it stripped back, that's my take.

And I agree with your BUT! :)

[EasternWest]

And I agree with your BUT! :)

Some would say I speak through it :).

[Topdog]

Have you read MJP's post?

yep and 18 clubs disagreed with him. Clubs dont get to know the players as well as others who are involved daily. When you put up facebook stuff like the young man and appear disinterested in interviews you wont get drafted.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

yep and 18 clubs disagreed with him. Clubs dont get to know the players as well as others who are involved daily. When you put up facebook stuff like the young man and appear disinterested in interviews you wont get drafted.

Beauty, that means we can have him because of the stiffling conservatism of the other clubs. Hopefully we're not the lackie of our benefactors and masters, the AFL, and can make a decision without fear of upsetting.
I am backing MJP and my own judgement on Dayle Garlett. Brett Goodes and others can ease the young man into the demands of professional football and we have a chance to get the genuine talent that we need to lift ourselves above the pack. It won't happen though and much is the pity.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

yep and 18 clubs disagreed with him. Clubs dont get to know the players as well as others who are involved daily. When you put up facebook stuff like the young man and appear disinterested in interviews you wont get drafted.

This.

Whilst I agree the AFL is becoming very vanilla, there's a reason for it. They invest a lot of time, energy and money into their players. If you've got a player like Garlett who has struggled to fully commit at U18 level (ie. hungover at training sessions, missing things here and there, drinking/smoking regularly) then how is he going to be able to cope in the AFL system when you're at the club almost every day with training, meetings and so forth?

It doesn't make Garlett a 'bad kid', but it's easy to understand why he was overlooked by 18 clubs.

What if we drafted Garlett and he led Libba astray?

I should have prefaced this by saying I love Garlett as a player and wanted him, but I don't blame clubs for passing.

His best bet is to show clubs he wants to actually play at the top level, demonstrating by a first class attitude next year wherever he plays, whatever level that may be.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Beauty, that means we can have him because of the stiffling conservatism of the other clubs. Hopefully we're not the lackie of our benefactors and masters, the AFL, and can make a decision without fear of upsetting.
I am backing MJP and my own judgement on Dayle Garlett. Brett Goodes and others can ease the young man into the demands of professional football and we have a chance to get the genuine talent that we need to lift ourselves above the pack. It won't happen though and much is the pity.

This is being brought up a lot but there's a difference between easing a player in and having to babysit them.

You can't expect Goodes (and Cross/Boyd/Morris etc) to literally look after him 24/7.

[LostDoggy]

Garlett to train with Essendon.


Bombers coach James Hird confirmed on Tuesday Garlett would train with the club in Melbourne next week and could be picked up if he impresses.

Read more here.....

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-set-to-hand-garlett-an-afl-lifeline-20121127-2a4pp.html

[BornInDroopSt'54]

This is being brought up a lot but there's a difference between easing a player in and having to babysit them.

You can't expect Goodes (and Cross/Boyd/Morris etc) to literally look after him 24/7.

Agreed you can't but this is begging the question.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Garlett to train with Essendon.


Bombers coach James Hird confirmed on Tuesday Garlett would train with the club in Melbourne next week and could be picked up if he impresses.

Read more here.....

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-set-to-hand-garlett-an-afl-lifeline-20121127-2a4pp.html

Well.........now we HAVE to get him.
I'm sure we can trump the bombers in both pre season and rookie drafts so now we can kill two birds with one stone.

Get some risky, but absolutely top end talent, and screw the Bombers in the process.

If Essendon are prepared to have a nibble that's good enough for me.

With the salary cap in place and the expansion teams stockpiling the nations young talent, the only way to keep up with or ahead of the pack is to take some risks and think outside the square.

[bulldogtragic]

Garlett to train with Essendon.


Bombers coach James Hird confirmed on Tuesday Garlett would train with the club in Melbourne next week and could be picked up if he impresses.

Read more here.....

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-set-to-hand-garlett-an-afl-lifeline-20121127-2a4pp.html
I'd be sending scouts down to windy hill.

[Ghost Dog]

I'd be sending scouts down to windy hill.

Why? We already know the kid can play. Not really the issue.
If I had a business, hiring someone who was stoned on his facebook page ( or something else ) would not seem very smart.
It's a team sport; take on people with issues if they are committed to change sure, but it's a drain on resources.
We are already in the red financially.

[bulldogtragic]

Why? We already know the kid can play. Not really the issue.
I take your point but attitude and application might be seen since his non drafting, to go with his skills. But this ain't gunna happen so the point is probably moot.

[Ghost Dog]

I take your point btragic. I reckon our recruiters eat, sleep and drink talent, so I would back them in.
But hey, FWIW, I wish the kid a good career and I hope he doesn't let the party lifestyle impede his career.

[F'scary]

Garlett to train with Essendon.


Bombers coach James Hird confirmed on Tuesday Garlett would train with the club in Melbourne next week and could be picked up if he impresses.

Read more here.....

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-set-to-hand-garlett-an-afl-lifeline-20121127-2a4pp.html

We had our chance with that ND pick 89 or whatever 80-something it ended up as.

I wonder if Esserdon's apparent change of heart will result in a stampede to see who can pick him up?

If we get involved in the hunt but don't get him we will look just a bit silly but if that happens hopefully we will be in company with others who engaged in the late chase for his services.

Perhaps better just to stick to our original decision.

[Topdog]

Decision isnt over IMO. Costs a lot less to draft a rookie and less impact if it goes downhill.

[bulldogtragic]

Garlett training at the bombers just on ten news. Nothing interesting though. I have my sights on which recycled players we go after.

[azabob]

Garlett training at the bombers just on ten news. Nothing interesting though. I have my sights on which recycled players we go after.

Long time BT.

Not sure Prismall or Bate can add value. Not sure who else is about that we would look at considering we have no one of note training with us.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Well.........now we HAVE to get him.
I'm sure we can trump the bombers in both pre season and rookie drafts so now we can kill two birds with one stone.

Get some risky, but absolutely top end talent, and screw the Bombers in the process.

If Essendon are prepared to have a nibble that's good enough for me.

With the salary cap in place and the expansion teams stockpiling the nations young talent, the only way to keep up with or ahead of the pack is to take some risks and think outside the square.

Garlett is a player of exceptional talent and enormous potential. The Bulldogs do not get the opportunity to grab such a talent every decade, at least not since we won a premiership. The expansion teams are stockpiling talent that will mature exactly when our next window of opportunity comes up in about three or four years. We can not afford not to take the chance with Dayle especially as we have a WOOFER, MJP who knows Garlett as a person and footballer, has the interest of the Bulldogs at heart and is passionate about Garlett as being a victim of misunderstanding and believes he will be able to become an AFL player.
If he is too immature there are ways we can help him adjust and if it doesn’t work out we took our chances. If he succeeds the supporters and our sponsors will be ecstatic. The upside is too important to be ignored.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Garlett is a player of exceptional talent and enormous potential. The Bulldogs do not get the opportunity to grab such a talent every decade, at least not since we won a premiership. The expansion teams are stockpiling talent that will mature exactly when our next window of opportunity comes up in about three or four years. We can not afford not to take the chance with Dayle especially as we have a WOOFER, MJP who knows Garlett as a person and footballer, has the interest of the Bulldogs at heart and is passionate about Garlett as being a victim of misunderstanding and believes he will be able to become an AFL player.
If he is too immature there are ways we can help him adjust and if it doesn’t work out we took our chances. If he succeeds the supporters and our sponsors will be ecstatic. The upside is too important to be ignored.

Absolutely well said. My sentiments exactly.

A. You take a rookie who you KNOW will be a major talent if he knuckles down,
or B. you take a rookie who MIGHT show something someday. Was about to start reeling off names but .....................we all know............
Anyhows.

I'll take option A any day of the week.

Also, let's get real about this.

If we are terrified that one 18 year old kid could turn up and completely morally 'wreck the joint' and drag the club into the dark ages then that's pathetic.

Surely we're better than that. And people keep bringing up Libber as a soft target who will just go along with any loose cannon that turns up I think you are completely wrong.

Libber will be hard as stainless steel after this, If anything Libber will be the one to HELP Garlett. Libber was just used by some dregs of mates from secondary school. He would be as filthy with them as he was with himself.

If I was McCartney I would back myself in.

Address the players and the board and say "we think with our policies and procedures in place we can turn this kid around. IN fact it will PROVE that my system works"

I understand the no dickheads policy but.................

[bulldogtragic]

Long time BT.

Not sure Prismall or Bate can add value. Not sure who else is about that we would look at considering we have no one of note training with us.
Yeah too long aza, been ill. I share your sentiments which makes the final two spots intriguing.

[azabob]

Yeah too long aza, been ill. I share your sentiments which makes the final two spots intriguing.

Sorry to hear that, glad to see you are well enough to start posting again.

[Remi Moses]

Agree with the above .Homestly Bate or Prismall?
Rookie the kid, we talk of "educating" yet we follow like sheep the other clubs!
If he fails, he just follows in behind other rookies we've delisted!

[Remi Moses]

Garlett is a player of exceptional talent and enormous potential. The Bulldogs do not get the opportunity to grab such a talent every decade, at least not since we won a premiership. The expansion teams are stockpiling talent that will mature exactly when our next window of opportunity comes up in about three or four years. We can not afford not to take the chance with Dayle especially as we have a WOOFER, MJP who knows Garlett as a person and footballer, has the interest of the Bulldogs at heart and is passionate about Garlett as being a victim of misunderstanding and believes he will be able to become an AFL player.
If he is too immature there are ways we can help him adjust and if it doesn’t work out we took our chances. If he succeeds the supporters and our sponsors will be ecstatic. The upside is too important to be ignored.

Agree entirely, we've got a bloke who coaches and knows the kid and follows our club.
Remember another indigenous kid we had called Les Bamblett who we took a chance with, and not for injury would have been a great player.

[GVGjr]

If we are terrified that one 18 year old kid could turn up and completely morally 'wreck the joint' and drag the club into the dark ages then that's pathetic.

Surely we're better than that. And people keep bringing up Libber as a soft target who will just go along with any loose cannon that turns up I think you are completely wrong.

Libber will be hard as stainless steel after this, If anything Libber will be the one to HELP Garlett.



I'm all for us having a good look at Garlett but no one is saying what I have highlighted above.
What people are saying is that there are good reasons why no club rolled the dice on draft day.

In my opinion clubs have to consider the potential impact to the sponsors and I'm sure this is a major consideration with all clubs who were looking at Garlett.

As for Liberatore, are you sure your comment that "he will be as hard as steel" after his experience is fact or is it more of an assumption?

Personally I don't think he would be ready yet to help anyone else but himself.

[F'scary]

What are these calls to 'rookie' Garlett. In your dreams. He will get at least one much better offer than this with the PSD. Essendon have started the bidding war.

Let's stick to our original decision and move on.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'm all for us having a good look at Garlett but no one is saying what I have highlighted above.
What people are saying is that there are good reasons why no club rolled the dice on draft day.

In my opinion clubs have to consider the potential impact to the sponsors and I'm sure this is a major consideration with all clubs who were looking at Garlett.

As for Liberatore, are you sure your comment that "he will be as hard as steel" after his experience is fact or is it more of an assumption?

Personally I don't think he would be ready yet to help anyone else but himself.

Have to admit it is an assumption, but based on similar experiences I've personally had with other players being dragged backwards by dodgy (but well bred, well educated and wealthy) 'mates' (think private school).
This was in the nineties and I could just see their careers being hampered by wanting to be 'cool'.

I see Libber snapping out of it pretty damn quickly.

Hope I'm right?

[GVGjr]

Have to admit it's an assumption but base on similar experiences with other players being dragged backwards by dodgy (but well bred, well educated and wealthy) 'mates'.
I see libber snapping out of it pretty damn quickly.

Hope I'm right?


This is the thing with youngsters that get off track because we always want to see the best in people.
Maybe Liberatore is made of sterner stuff than most but I think we are minimizing things if we assume its all right behind him now.

I'm tipping that Garlett won't all off a sudden just mature over night and we all need to understand that it will take time and a considerable effort. As talented as he is the clubs know its not as easy as just providing him with the opportunity.

It sounds bold and gutsy to say ignore the behavioral facts and just focus on his footy ability but I'm still thinking there is a lot more to it.

[LostDoggy]

What are these calls to 'rookie' Garlett. In your dreams. He will get at least one much better offer than this with the PSD. Essendon have started the bidding war.

Let's stick to our original decision and move on.

This. Whether McCartney is a great coach or not (I think he might be) he has a solid track record as a leader of men and a developer of talent. Whilst he's not directly responsible for the decision there is no doubt he will have had significant input. The decision was made at the draft when we passed. We need a committed team to build a foundation on for our next tilt. Sometimes that means overlooking good talent because their approach won't fit the team being built. I'm happy to pass albeit its a real shame for the kid.

[jeemak]

Have to admit it is an assumption, but based on similar experiences I've personally had with other players being dragged backwards by dodgy (but well bred, well educated and wealthy) 'mates' (think private school).
This was in the nineties and I could just see their careers being hampered by wanting to be 'cool'.

I see Libber snapping out of it pretty damn quickly.

Hope I'm right?

I'm not sure if your faith in Liberatore is bound by the colours he wears or the way he plays the game, or potentially because you know him and his family.

If it's either of the former two, then I think you're displaying the same level of naivety applied by those both wanting or not wanting to draft Garlett without really knowing much about him aside from his talent. I'm also a little staggered how you can pin Liberatore's behaviour to the influence of well bred, wealthy and educated mates (inferring those three go together like peas, beans and carrots). I grew up knowing poor kids, kids in the middle and rich kids, and the reality is amongst them all you had a pretty even distribution of deadshits and good kids, just by varying degrees.

I know it's an opinion based forum, though I find it difficult that so many people are either vehemently for or against drafting a player based on the opinions of those bemoaned so often for poor drafting choices over the years. I can't help but think that if we used the Prudden pick on Garlett and he flopped, there'd be a ridiculous amount of posters ready to state how badly we got it wrong considering all other clubs had two chances to get him by that stage of the draft!

DD, this isn't a crack at you mate. I suppose I struggle with character determinations over the internet based on information provided by journalists and visions of young kids being stupid young kids over the internet.

If the recruitment team decide to take a punt on him in the RD then great. He's obviously got talent and they think the club can work with him to ensure he becomes a player. If they don't, then that's probably a sign we're not confident in our ability to manage him and we need to look as the reasons why that's the case, particularly if another club is able to do so giving them an advantage.

[boydogs]

If they don't, then that's probably a sign we're not confident in our ability to manage him and we need to look as the reasons why that's the case, particularly if another club is able to do so giving them an advantage.

We're not a rehab clinic mate.

[jeemak]

We're not a rehab clinic mate.

Like it or not, we have a player on our list that has been caught by Victoria police in possession of an ilicit substance passing in and out of coherence on the streets of Melbourne. That player has since been suspended by the club, and has a lot of work to do to pay the club back for the embarrassment he has caused it, as well as having to prove to himself that he is a mature and responsible person (not to mention his family and friends).

On the basis of our football club not being a rehabilitation clinic, are you prepared to give up on him? Or does the talent he's shown to this point in our club colours discount him from being expendable, and worht persevering with?

[boydogs]

Like it or not, we have a player on our list that has been caught by Victoria police in possession of an ilicit substance passing in and out of coherence on the streets of Melbourne. That player has since been suspended by the club, and has a lot of work to do to pay the club back for the embarrassment he has caused it, as well as having to prove to himself that he is a mature and responsible person (not to mention his family and friends).

On the basis of our football club not being a rehabilitation clinic, are you prepared to give up on him? Or does the talent he's shown to this point in our club colours discount him from being expendable, and worht persevering with?

Libba should be on 1 strike, and gone if he gets to 3.

Garlett has photos up on Instagram of being high on drugs, drunk and standing on a dead kangaroo. He has been kicked out of the AIS and sent home from his local club. He turns up to training drunk, drinks during the week and smokes.

I think that puts him on about 6 strikes before he plays a game.

[jeemak]

Libba should be on 1 strike, and gone if he gets to 3.

Garlett has photos up on Instagram of being high on drugs, drunk and standing on a dead kangaroo. He has been kicked out of the AIS and sent home from his local club. He turns up to training drunk, drinks during the week and smokes.

I think that puts him on about 6 strikes before he plays a game.

Pretty sure you only get one strike when you're caught with it in your system, not when you potentially might have taken substances.

If it was the latter, then the AFL would be full of players on a few strikes. Surely you understand that many players indulge in ilicit drug taking, without being caught with it in their systems.

If what you're saying about Garlett is true, then all I'll consider him beyond the norm from many other players is being stupid enough for letting photographical evidence of it being plastered across the internet. To think that he, or Libba are mildly isolated cases of AFL or potential AFL players taking drugs then you've well and truly got your head in the sand.

As for rocking up to training drunk, then that's clearly unacceptable, if that's what he's done. Irrespective of all of that, if we pass on him and another team is able to develop him into a mature person after perserverence then we need to question our ability to do the same. That's what good clubs do.

[bornadog]

Libba should be on 1 strike, and gone if he gets to 3.

Garlett has photos up on Instagram of being high on drugs, drunk and standing on a dead kangaroo. He has been kicked out of the AIS and sent home from his local club. He turns up to training drunk, drinks during the week and smokes.

I think that puts him on about 6 strikes before he plays a game.

Is there evidence of this?

[Maddog37]

This thread has gone completely off the rails.

Way too much opinion based on assumption and all over an immature eighteen year old boy who is getting attention just because he is good at a game.

Time to move on surely........

[The Underdog]

This thread has gone completely off the rails.

Way too much opinion based on assumption and all over an immature eighteen year old boy who is getting attention just because he is good at a game.

Time to move on surely........

They all get attention because they are good at the game.

[Maddog37]

But they don't all get character assassinated based on internet stories and second hand information.

[boydogs]

Pretty sure you only get one strike when you're caught with it in your system, not when you potentially might have taken substances.

I meant within the club, not a formal AFL drug policy strike.


Is there evidence of this?

Phil Smart from Swan Districts has admitted they have sent him home from training for turning up late, but not drunk.

One of his Instagram photos of him drinking & smoking was uploaded a few days before a semi-final, but he now claims it was taken earlier on.

[jeemak]

I meant within the club, not a formal AFL drug policy strike.


Phil Smart from Swan Districts has admitted they have sent him home from training for turning up late, but not drunk.

One of his Instagram photos of him drinking & smoking was uploaded a few days before a semi-final, but he now claims it was taken earlier on.

Oh, OK. There'd be a few out there that would suggest if Libba stepped out of line so significantly again we'd best show him the door.