Tom Alvin

[BornInDroopSt'54]

As a member in 1983, I received the Footscray newsletter at the end of the season. The lead article was that we'd recruited a potential star, Tom Alvin from our La Trobe Valley recruiting zone. First round 1984 he is wearing a dirty Carlton guernsey!!! The guernsey was clean.
I assumed we must have had to a sell him to survive. However I just now got on a Carlton site (only in the name of educating a relative what a disgraceful club they are) which stated:

"By 1983, the 21 year-old (TomAlvin) had been tied to Footscray for a season or two, but when his contract lapsed, Carlton believed in his potential and offered him a second chance at a league football career. "

It's hard to reconcile this claim with my memory. Can anyone throw some light on what went on? How did we lose Tom Alvin?

[Bulldog4life]

An article by Mick Malthouse who was our coach at the time:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/news/13680396/free-agency-free-ride-for-top-clubs/

But one player's name which still makes me cringe when I hear it is Tom Alvin. When I first arrived at Footscray in 1984, I read up about this young player we had down in our zone at Bairnsdale.

But all of a sudden, this kid Alvin had gone to Carlton and was no longer a Footscray player. The Blues had flexed their money muscle.

There were a few rumblings at our club and I was a bit naive in my first year as coach, so when I was warned not to make too much of a ripple because Carlton would challenge it in the courts, I let it go.

In the end, the Blues, because they had the money and the name, got a 218-game player and Footscray, who were struggling, got nothing. If I'd had another 12 months under my belt, let me tell you, I wouldn't have been turning my cheek.

[bornadog]

The very reason I hate clubs like Carlton because they flout the rules and think they can do whatever they want by throwing money at it.

[GVGjr]

The very reason I hate clubs like Carlton because they flout the rules and think they can do whatever they want by throwing money at it.

Agreed, They make it easy don't they?

[bornadog]

Agreed, They make it easy don't they?

I once worked in a family company who are regarded in the top 10 or so of the BRW rich list. When they went off to visit one of their retail stores, they just parked in a no standing area as close as they could to the store, because they didn't care about paying the fines let alone the obstruction to other users of the road. Clubs like Carlton, just don't care about the integrity of the competition let alone the rules.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Thanks Bulldog4life, that's the missing piece of the puzzle and interesting yet depressing reading it is too. Beating Carlton is going to be even more enjoyable knowing it. The Bulldogs must have felt like they had to kow tow to the league and that they were on the precipice to be stood over like that. We must have felt utterly unsupported by the league. Perhaps we felt if Carlton were to take it to court, this would create free agency and an environment in which we couldn't survive. Highway robbery and greed of the ugly kind.

[bornadog]

Thanks Bulldog4life, that's the missing piece of the puzzle and interesting yet depressing reading it is too. Beating Carlton is going to be even more enjoyable knowing it. The Bulldogs must have felt like they had to kow tow to the league and that they were on the precipice to be stood over like that. We must have felt utterly unsupported by the league. Perhaps we felt if Carlton were to take it to court, this would create free agency and an environment in which we couldn't survive. Highway robbery and greed of the ugly kind.

We lost a lot of good players in the 70's and 80.s due to being poor and not being able to offer good money. example: Bernie Quinlan was transferred to Fitzroy ( for money) so we could pay off some debts.

[alwaysadog]

I think there was a lot more to it, but as Mick doesn’t go into details, there’s nothing to jog the memory after so much time. Most of the facts are hazy other than that it was definitely dirty work courtesy of the usual suspects.

I have 3 three recollections of this matter but these may folk lore rather than fact.

They are of:

1 Our club sending someone down to see Tom and his family only to find that a reptilian blue bagger (is there any other sort?) had slithered under the back door and was interviewing them in complete contravention of the rules regarding zoned players, and one in whom we had we had already communicated a very real interest;

2 Tom being offered a swag full of money to refuse to come down to us; and

3 A considerable amount of money coming our way subsequently

The biggest affront to us is not that they got away with it, nor that even now they don’t admit to their dodgy methods, but that they rewrite history and on the one hand and present us as just being disinterested and incompetent while on the other they claim the high moral ground because by implication they were the opposite of both of those things.

[The Underdog]

I hope the season starts soon so we can start wallowing in present day injustices. Between this & the 97 prelim thread and discussions about 08-10, we're only missing a thread on the 61 GF to really make ourselves feel bad.

[Twodogs]

I hope the season starts soon so we can start wallowing in present day injustices. Between this & the 97 prelim thread and discussions about 08-10, we're only missing a thread on the 61 GF to really make ourselves feel bad.


Cheer up. 2013 is a premiership centenary for us:


Victorian Football Association

Season 1913

Final ladder


Footscray 14 4 0 155.3 56

North Melbourne 13 4 1 139.6 54

Essendon Association 13 5 0 119.4 52

Brunswick 12 5 1 132.4 50


Williamstown
Prahran
Brighton
Port Melbourne
Northcote
Melbourne City






Finals matches


First Semi-Final


23/08/1913
Footscray
3-5
4-3
5-11
7-13
55

Essendon Association
0-1
2-3
6-3
8-5
53
Result: Footscray
Venue: MCG
Attendance: 13000

Gate: £331



Second Semi-Final


30/08/1913
North Melbourne
1-4
3-8
5-12
8-16
64

Brunswick
1-1
3-2
4-2
4-2
26
Result: North Melbourne

Venue: EMCG
Attendance: 16000-17000




Grand Final


6/09/1913
Footscray
4-2
7-10
8-13
10-14
74


North Melbourne
3-4
6-4
10-6
11-7
73
Result: Footscray

Venue: EMCG
Attendance: 20000
Gate: £384










1913 premiers: Footscray


From:

http://www.thegapchessclub.org.au/vfa/1913.htm



It's definitely an omen.;)

[Ghost Dog]

I hope the season starts soon so we can start wallowing in present day injustices. Between this & the 97 prelim thread and discussions about 08-10, we're only missing a thread on the 61 GF to really make ourselves feel bad.

Post of the month! * fanfare and ticker tape*

[The Underdog]

Post of the month! * fanfare and ticker tape*

I understand the pain of being close and not getting there and the feeling that we'll never win a premiership, but rather than continually reliving pain it's time to own our identity & get on with it. Enjoy the ride, both the peaks and the valleys.

[jeemak]

There's still plenty of positive stuff on here. Sure the retrospective threads are a bit of a downer, but they also provide us with a place to vent amongst sympathetic listeners. It's all good.

[Remi Moses]

Carlton arrogant and conceited .
They are corrupt

[Ghost Dog]

I understand the pain of being close and not getting there and the feeling that we'll never win a premiership, but rather than continually reliving pain it's time to own our identity & get on with it. Enjoy the ride, both the peaks and the valleys.

I'm with you.

[SonofScray]

Its all part of who we are. Just as being deceitful, cheating, SOB's is part of Carlton.

[Ghost Dog]

But have you ever chatted to Carlton supporters? They are so fatalistic about the culture of their own club. We may be a small club, but at least we have pride.
The Visy deal
Elliot
All the deals under the table
Cheating the salary cap.

Like St Kilda, I think their club culture will come back to haunt them.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I understand the pain of being close and not getting there and the feeling that we'll never win a premiership, but rather than continually reliving pain it's time to own our identity & get on with it. Enjoy the ride, both the peaks and the valleys.

To be fair the essence of this thread was an attempt to use the forum and collective knowledge to understand what actually happened, how we lost Tom Alvin, not to wallow in self pity, which is a useless indulgence only to be exorcised by the understanding of what actually happened.

[LostDoggy]

The very reason I hate clubs like Carlton because they flout the rules and think they can do whatever they want by throwing money at it.

You're right except for one thing: they don't think they can do whatever they want — they can do whatever they want.

Judd.

[The Coon Dog]

I'd often wondered why we never got Tom Alvin & ultimately found out. Back in the day you had recruiting zones where players in that zone were tied to your club until they turned 21!

Tom Alvin waited until he was 21 then went to the club he barracked for.

[Greystache]

Maybe someone knew something about this and wanted to make a statement

http://qualityafltradingcards.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/IMG_0379_(480x640).jpg

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'd often wondered why we never got Tom Alvin & ultimately found out. Back in the day you had recruiting zones where players in that zone were tied to your club until they turned 21!

Tom Alvin waited until he was 21 then went to the club he barracked for.

Thanks Coon Dog. That seems to make sense because clearly Alvin wanted to go to Carlton. However he turned 21 in April 1983, 8 months before the Footscray newsletter announcing him as a future star for us. He may have prevaricated around the bush, who knows.

[The Underdog]

I'd often wondered why we never got Tom Alvin & ultimately found out. Back in the day you had recruiting zones where players in that zone were tied to your club until they turned 21!

Tom Alvin waited until he was 21 then went to the club he barracked for.

It seems to have worked out pretty well for him. Probably something most of us would have done given the opportunity and circumstance.

[Ozza]

I can't really remember Alvin as a player - I remember what he looked like, with the long hair, and have in my mind that he was a defender - but was too young to really remember what type of player he was.

Was he a better than average player at VFL/AFL level?

[Twodogs]

Was he a better than average player at VFL/AFL level?


Jack Dyer would have called him as 'good ordinary' player. He was no champion but he would have been pretty handy in the red white and blue. IIRC one of the Morwood brothers grabbed a handful of his hair and pulled him to ground as Alvin tried to run past him with the ball one day. The umpire blew his whistle, took a step backwards and made the dropping the ball symbol. One of the funniest things I have seen on a footy field.


Oh and we got Scott Wynd exactly the sane way as Carlton got Alvin. Scott was tied residentially to North but we signed him the day that North's hold on him lapsed.