Demons' lame-duck excuses

[bornadog]

link (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-lameduck-excuses-20130212-2eb5v.html)

Caroline Wilson
CHIEF FOOTBALL WRITER FOR THE AGE


DESPITE the regular protestations of the AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou and his commission, when the blowtorch was placed on the integrity of certain home-and-away matches in 2009, there appears no doubt in anyone's mind any more that Melbourne worked to lose games of football that year.

The response to that allegation from Melbourne staff and board members since the murky evidence gleaned in the AFL's tanking investigation was first revealed has been uniform and unconvincing.

The Demons' unofficial defence since it became clear they had a very serious case to answer has been run along several lines. The first is the schoolyard excuse: that everybody else was doing it - or at least a sufficient number of clubs, meaning that their club should not be singled out. Further, if the club is punished, then it will drag down others along with it.
Another excuse by Melbourne is that staff and former staff were ''verballed'' or harassed by AFL investigators.

This is not a defence against the charge itself but a complaint in the manner by which the AFL gathered its information from those men who attended a meeting addressed by Chris Connolly at the Junction Oval ''vault''.

Then there is the Connolly role in all of this. Connolly has vigorously defended himself, claimed himself to have been singled out as part of a conspiracy - the club was bitterly divided in his last year as football boss - and claimed that he was being light-hearted if he said anything at all about losing games. So that, in essence, is what Melbourne is unofficially saying in its defence. That it wasn't the only ''tanker''; that witnesses were bullied and that Connolly was only joking. Oh, and that the AFL knew what was going on and tacitly allowed it.
And that Melbourne is too weak to be punished. And - finally - that the AFL has no proof. Certainly the whistleblower Brock McLean provided no evidence. It is understood that Melbourne will be charged in the coming days and almost certainly by Friday. One expected charge is bringing the game into disrepute. Connolly will be charged as will former coach Dean Bailey, but Fairfax Media could not confirm whether CEO Cameron Schwab would also be charged.

Acting AFL football boss Gillon McLachlan is running the affair, having taken it over from the departed Adrian Anderson and has refused to discuss what has reportedly been constant dialogue with all parties. At the height of the Australian Crime Commission sport scandal late last week Connolly was being interviewed at AFL headquarters.

While club president Don McLardy missed the point entirely at last week's Melbourne annual general meeting when he suggested that his players had wrongly been accused of not trying, McLardy remains steadfast in his view that he would fight the AFL's charges all the way to the highest court in the land.
This is unlikely to happen. Neither Melbourne nor the AFL can afford a costly and protracted legal battle and it is clear now that not everyone at the club is behind that fight-at-all-costs mentality.

Another view is that the Demons would be wiser to push for a negotiated outcome. Certainly the view at the game's headquarters is that the charges will be laid and that Melbourne and its officials - and Bailey - will face the AFL Commission in the manner that Adelaide did late last year.

Charges of draft tampering and - for Bailey - not coaching to his utmost have also been looked at.

The Demons have engaged former Federal Court judge Ray Finkelstein to lead their defence and their view is that they have a very good case. Perhaps in legal terms they are correct even though their stated excuses are so so flimsy, irrelevant and in some cases childish.
Perhaps, in the name of political expediency, their punishment will be mitigated. But it shouldn't be. What Melbourne did to its players in 2009 was unacceptable.
It is true the AFL can hold its head far higher than at least two other football codes in Australia where match-fixing allegations are concerned, but everybody involved in this case knows that the game's integrity is paramount.

Melbourne manipulated football results in 2009. Bailey knew it, McLean and several teammates knew it and resented it and a disturbing number of witnesses have attested to it. To let the club off the hook now would be as damaging to the game's image as Melbourne was back in that clumsy, divided and unhappy time four seasons ago.

[Flamethrower]

Heard on SEN tonight that the MFC have released a statement saying that most of the "facts" in Wilson's article are total BS.

The media have never been known for letting facts get in the way of a story. :rolleyes:

[Remi Moses]

Heard on SEN tonight that the MFC have released a statement saying that most of the "facts" in Wilson's article are total BS.

The media have never been known for letting facts get in the way of a story. :rolleyes:

Don't always agree with her, but at least she's not matey chummy journo like a few.

[Remi Moses]

Mcclardy made a silly comment that the players always "Try".
Issue is the coaching staff and hierarchy.
End of the day the defense of we weren't the only ones doing it, (that doesn't make it right, I think)
I think the AFL should have a moratorium on tanking.

[LostDoggy]

Don't always agree with her, but at least she's not matey chummy journo like a few.

Agree, but she's gone too far to the other extreme, “firing shots into the crowd” to prove she's not a matey chummy journo.

[Remi Moses]

Hmm listening to Garry Lyon talking on the Demon tanking issue.
Wouldn't be conflicted would he?:rolleyes:

[Mofra]

Demons Chair released a short statement on the MFC website - I imagine someone at The Age has received an interesting phone call

[bornadog]

Getting closer to an outcome:

No draft penalties likely for Melbourne (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/no-draft-penalties-likely-for-melbourne-20130215-2eia4.html)

[FrediKanoute]

Getting closer to an outcome:

No draft penalties likely for Melbourne (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/no-draft-penalties-likely-for-melbourne-20130215-2eia4.html)

So they systematically cheat and walk away with a slap on the wrist. Its pretty appalling by the afl. You have a player coming out and saying we were told to drop points, guys played out of postion and still nothing done. Unsurprising though from Demitriou and co. when it comes to hard decisions they aren't interested.

[Cyberdoggie]

Looks like they have offered a reduced penalty fee in order to get this over and done with.
This drugs issue couldn't have come at a better time for Melbourne. I think the AFL would want to sort all these issues out as soon as possible to protect the brand, wouldn't want to fight a lengthy court case with Melbourne while also trying to clean up the drug situation.

[bornadog]

really should lose a first round draft pick.

[bornadog]

Connolley suspended one year

Bailey suspended for 6 months from coaching

Melbourne Fine of $500k

[Maddog37]

really should lose a first round draft pick.


I personally have a sneaking suspicion that the loss of draft pics can have a destabilizing effect on the competition for too long just as the effect of priority picks do in reverse. I would prefer they punished clubs in other methods and leave the draft untainted. That's just me though.

[KT31]

I personally have a sneaking suspicion that the loss of draft pics can have a destabilizing effect on the competition for too long just as the effect of priority picks do in reverse. I would prefer they punished clubs in other methods and leave the draft untainted. That's just me though.

One first round draft pick could not possibly destabilize the competition.
Using the argument, one would suggest the Dee's are one up on picks and to re-equalise the draft they should miss a selection.

[Maddog37]

One first round draft pick could not possibly destabilize the competition.
Using the argument, one would suggest the Dee's are one up on picks and to re-equalise the draft they should miss a selection.


Just a theory KT. I would just like to see the draft and the draw be left alone a bit more.

[jeemak]

Just a theory KT. I would just like to see the draft and the draw be left alone a bit more.

Agree. Teams need to improve on the back of an even draw, and good holistic management of their football clubs. Loading up on early picks hasn't worked for a few clubs to this point, and it's clear that clubs like Melbourne have had significant shortcomings in how they've managed their entire playing lists.

I think Melbourne has benefitted from the sluggish response of the AFL over an extended period of time, and the perceived need to resolve the issue prior to the home and away season. I have very little doubt Connolly and Bailey were acting under instruction to position the club to benefit from the priority pick system. I suppose they're unlucky to have taken the fall, partly due to the fact the AFL needs to be seen as not being completely short sighted and incompetent through admitting a club rorted their equalisation system, ultimately affecting the outcomes of matches played (and wagered on).

[GVGjr]

The AFL has negotiated a settlement that targets two individuals rather than finding the club guilty of tanking. The Melbourne FC obtained a favorable draft pick and yet haven't been penalized at the draft table.

The AFL got an outcome but justice hasn't been served.

[FrediKanoute]

The AFL has negotiated a settlement that targets two individuals rather than finding the club guilty of tanking. The Melbourne FC obtained a favorable draft pick and yet haven't been penalized at the draft table.

The AFL got an outcome but justice hasn't been served.

Agree, Connelly and Bailey are the patsy's who have taken the fall for the Dee's systematic cheating. Is there anything worse than sending out a team with instructions to underperform? It goes completely against the whole ethos of competitive sport......the AFL needed to send a message. Not a Carlton sized message, but one which still compromised Melbourne's competitiveness. I think losing their first round pick in 2013 and first round Rookie draft pick would have been fair.

[Ghost Dog]

The AFL press conference was not at all convincing. With such a serious allegations, Demetriou should have been there.
They send mixed messages by saying the club was not guilty, but then fine them...go figure.

[AndrewP6]

What an absurd finish. Not guilty but we're fining you anyway.

Wet lettuce leaf if ever I've seen it.

[Sedat]

BUMP

So this is how 'punishment' works in the AFL system. A club is fined $500k for being found to have deliberately lost games to gain an advantage at the draft table, and them the same club is given $2.7m as a bail-out package by the AFL a few months later for all the screw-ups of their own making.

Under the same criteria, expect Essendon to get a $1m fine for their (allegedly) systematic illegal supplements program and then get given a $4m cheque by the AFL to upgrade their shiny new Tullamarine science lab, I mean training base :rolleyes:

Under the current regime, the AFL is in serious danger of alienating generations of rusted-on supporters with their cynical, contrived, unethical management of the game. A management that deals almost exclusively in duplicity, cover-ups and spin to 'protect the brand'.

[Ghost Dog]

Don't like it. If Melbourne were a private company and were found to have deliberately deflated their stock, the book would be thrown at them.
Imagine a bank who deliberately misleads on their share price and then gets propped up by the state government to the tune of millions of dollars. There's no real counter argument.

But what of their " Investors ", the fans? I have a friend who has followed Melbourne for 50 odd years. The AFL is doing this with the exact purpose of salvaging some pride for the "rusted-on supporters " of the MFC. But, it's hard to imagine how a club could have much pride after a bail out like that, and while they may come to dominate the competition, I surmise their duplicity will come to haunt the culture of their club.

[comrade]

Under the current regime, the AFL is in serious danger of alienating generations of rusted-on supporters with their cynical, contrived, unethical management of the game. A management that deals almost exclusively in duplicity, cover-ups and spin to 'protect the brand'.

They've passed the point of no return, in my opinion.

From being a die hard lover of all things footy, I now watch the Bulldogs and hate everything else to do with the AFL due to the tsunami of shit the administration has heaped on the game.

Tanking, third party deals, stadium agreements, sexism, new franchises, illegal drug use etc. All these issues have been handled horribly by Demetriou and his cronies.

[bulldogtragic]

So what's the moral of the story?

Do the wrong thing, get heaps of top draft picks, and then get millions. Years later to be handed success, god knows, maybe a tainted premiership. It's a kick in the guts to teams like our who are good and honest struggling citizens who get nothing for doing the decent thing.

I don't know how the AFL commission justifies its recent behaviours/decisions.

[Ghost Dog]

The thing is, we are like resigned citizens in a farce democracy who put up with shiteful governance day in and day out, but just accept the poor decision making, turning up each weekend to consume more.
It's time fans held the faceless decision makers at the AFL to account.
Unless a grassroots campaign takes more interest in how AFL decisions are made, the situation will continue.

[LostDoggy]

The thing is, we are like resigned citizens in a farce democracy who put up with shiteful governance day in and day out, but just accept the poor decision making, turning up each weekend to consume more.
It's time fans held the faceless decision makers at the AFL to account.
Unless a grassroots campaign takes more interest in how AFL decisions are made, the situation will continue.

If you want to picket AFL House, I'm free most weekends,

[jeemak]

Don't like it. If Melbourne were a private company and were found to have deliberately deflated their stock, the book would be thrown at them.
Imagine a bank who deliberately misleads on their share price and then gets propped up by the state government to the tune of millions of dollars. There's no real counter argument.

But what of their " Investors ", the fans? I have a friend who has followed Melbourne for 50 odd years. The AFL is doing this with the exact purpose of salvaging some pride for the "rusted-on supporters " of the MFC. But, it's hard to imagine how a club could have much pride after a bail out like that, and while they may come to dominate the competition, I surmise their duplicity will come to haunt the culture of their club.

The private company accountability line of argument against AFL assistance is a bit of a stretch, particularly from supporters of a club like ours, which has been heavily dependant on AFL support for over a decade.

I do agree with you however, on the point that the culture of the MFC isn't going to be helped from being bailed out of this disgraceful mess unless significant governance layers are placed over the club and managed very heavily.

The conundrum for me is who do we trust, and who do supporters of the MFC trust to manage the implementation of appropriate governance independently of the AFL and its heavily compromised, commercially oriented commission and senior management?

[jeemak]

BUMP

So this is how 'punishment' works in the AFL system. A club is fined $500k for being found to have deliberately lost games to gain an advantage at the draft table, and them the same club is given $2.7m as a bail-out package by the AFL a few months later for all the screw-ups of their own making.

Under the same criteria, expect Essendon to get a $1m fine for their (allegedly) systematic illegal supplements program and then get given a $4m cheque by the AFL to upgrade their shiny new Tullamarine science lab, I mean training base :rolleyes:

Under the current regime, the AFL is in serious danger of alienating generations of rusted-on supporters with their cynical, contrived, unethical management of the game. A management that deals almost exclusively in duplicity, cover-ups and spin to 'protect the brand'.


They've passed the point of no return, in my opinion.

From being a die hard lover of all things footy, I now watch the Bulldogs and hate everything else to do with the AFL due to the tsunami of shit the administration has heaped on the game.

Tanking, third party deals, stadium agreements, sexism, new franchises, illegal drug use etc. All these issues have been handled horribly by Demetriou and his cronies.

I think Comrade's comments are perfect to follow yours' Sedat.

Much like Comrade, I don't really watch or pay attention to anything that involves the AFL product (unless it involves cases like this, that identify injustices clubs like ours have to bare the brunt of - considering these revenues will have to be derived at the expense of other clubs), because I've realised the administration isn't interested in fair treatment of all licensed stakeholders. They have a clear doctrine of profit generation and expansion, and have manipulated the fixture to achieve this and bias media coverage to enhance the manipulated fixture further.

How can we expect a league, which manipulates the most fundamental aspect of equity in the game to maximise profit, to act with any accountability and integrity?

The AFL is bloody lucky that Rugby League and A League Football are run by hacks, otherwise they'd be facing serious competition for prominence amongst a community that has very little positive public feedback for it on display. The management level of the AFL is putrid to the point where its stench reaches the common rusted on supporter, who is waking up to realise it's trying to be conned that a painted red turd on a stick is actually a toffee apple.

[Remi Moses]

Excellent points Jeemak. I'd agree with you on the A-League being run by " Hacks" 12 months ago, but I'd say in the last 12 months massive improvement.

[bulldogtragic]

Dees major sponsor Opel pulling out of Australia. AFL will need to bump it to $5,000,000 now.

[Remi Moses]

Dees major sponsor Opel pulling out of Australia. AFL will need to bump it to $5,000,000 now.

They'll probably want a priority bloody sponsor :mad:

[LostDoggy]

They've already got the AFL as a major sponsor, mother.

They're like a child that keeps coming home after blowing their inheritance.

[Ghost Dog]

I watched the Robbie Flower interview on open Mike recenty. During the 80's their training facilities were on par with ours. Training in the car park and so forth. I'm not exactly sure they have ever been a 'well off club'. It was run as more or less an amateur offshoot of the MCC until Barrassi came along. They've had money, but I don't know if it's been invested into their footy club in any meaningful way. Their administration has been poor.

[Remi Moses]

They had a lot of old money back in the day.
The AFL really should stop feeding the misconception of an " even " playing field.
We're seeing first hand tomorrow, playing a side who have extra salary cap room under the misnoma of "Cost of living allowance". Total fallacy, along with third party agreements, stadium deal farce, TV exposure etc etc.

[bulldogtragic]

I wonder if this result enhances Melbourne being given Boyd. Probably :(

[LostDoggy]

Melbourne beat by GWS......."Tank you very much, we'll take Tom Boyd".

[LostDoggy]

Melbourne beat by GWS......."Tank you very much, we'll take Tom Boyd".

Sorry, my letter "h" didn't seem to work during that post. :rolleyes:

[Remi Moses]

If they do get a priority pick( which is just mind boggling )
They should be made to trade it for a senior player.
Throwing a kid there way isn't going to fix their problems.
They need to get their coaching, teaching and beef up their recruiting dept to improve.

[LostDoggy]

Question begs, will they make it through this next ten year period:

Their saviour and prime mover, Jim Stynes is gone. It took a man on his death bed to give his last few years to Melbourne when nobody else could seemingly do it - before and after.

GWS and to a lesser extent, GC are the AFL's main concern for the next decade.

We'll improve and challenge before they do because we're a proud club that never bottoms out for an extended period.

The AFL will have to fund them now and into the foreseeable future. Do they want too? Do they need too? Have they had their chance ? Should they be made to be the Tasmanian Demons ? Oldest football club in the world, but how long can they hold that candle as their right to survive off everyone else?

[LostDoggy]

Sadly there are two choices that I can see.

Take the club out for a midnight stroll in a dark wood with a gun and a shovel so we can all move on

Give them a priority pick.

I know they have Hogan coming next year but good blimey they are bloody aweful.

If they give them a pick then we want one too and so will the saints so its pretty tricky.

The other issue is GWS have "tanked" their first two years by throwing the kitchen sink at youth. They traded every benefit they were given to build experience into their list for the best youth in the county instead. Which is effectively tanking against the list building rules.

It may be in our best interests to fight for Melbourne to get Boyd instead of GWS as ridiculously stupid as that is.

Man I'm getting sick of the smug, complacent, greedy, disgusting, toffy-nosed a-holes at afl house stuffing up this code.

[Ghost Dog]

They had a lot of old money back in the day.
The AFL really should stop feeding the misconception of an " even " playing field.
We're seeing first hand tomorrow, playing a side who have extra salary cap room under the misnoma of "Cost of living allowance". Total fallacy, along with third party agreements, stadium deal farce, TV exposure etc etc.

Well, not even old money, but new money. Schwab was paid $500,000 dollars a year at Melbourne. But what did their footy department see of the millions made by the 12th most well off club out of the top 30 in Australia?
I think a bunch of leeches, business types have made a bunch of decisions without any eye for development of young people.
(http://www.brw.com.au/p/leadership/top_business_talent_fails_to_prevent_Ow29iR2VGzE7u3ifulJXZL)

Article above written in April in Business review weekly regards Melbourne says exactly that.

[Ghost Dog]

They had a lot of old money back in the day.
The AFL really should stop feeding the misconception of an " even " playing field.
We're seeing first hand tomorrow, playing a side who have extra salary cap room under the misnoma of "Cost of living allowance". Total fallacy, along with third party agreements, stadium deal farce, TV exposure etc etc.

They've had a fair bit of money in the modern era. But they've let economic rationalists try to short cut the process of development.


Article from Business Review Weekly, not exactly a sporting rag, but with some pretty good points.

Top business talent fails to prevent Melbourne Football Club’s capitulation

As the sporting club of choice for Melbourne’s blue bloods and business elite, it is hard to understand how the Melbourne Football Club could become such a den of mismanagement.

Melbourne were ranked 12th on BRW’s inaugural Top 30 Football Clubs list last year.

The top place getter was the Collingwood Football Club, which made a $7.84 million profit on revenue of $69.64 million in 2012.

Football clubs, especially AFL clubs, are becoming big businesses and are highly adept at attracting top business people to their boards.

Melbourne has the added advantage of a close association with the exclusive Melbourne Cricket Club, which counts many top business figures as members.

Melbourne’s board is packed with impressive names. The chief executive of the $3 billion Bank of Queensland Stuart Grimshaw and executive general manager of Network Ten Russell Howcroft both occupy board seats.

Other board members include former legal counsel for James Packer’s Publishing & Broadcasting, Guy Jalland ,and former global managing partner of risk services for accounting giant Deloitte, John Trotter.

Sitting on a football club board can provide a welcome change of pace for a successful business person but there are many cases of smart managers making strange decisions at football clubs.

One club chief executive tells BRW that it is common for successful business people to “check their brains at the door” when they take positions on football club boards.

Link (http://www.brw.com.au/p/leadership/top_business_talent_fails_to_prevent_Ow29iR2VGzE7u3ifulJXZL)

[Ghost Dog]

Melbourne beat by GWS......."Tank you very much, we'll take Tom Boyd".

Well, if you look at their backs, they were certainly not chasing very hard even in the first quarter.