Predictions for 2013: our young players

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I thought it would be an interesting exercise to compile a list of young players, given it forms the large majority of our list, and discuss where they are at and where we might think they'll be at by the end of 2013. This gives us a point of reference, so that come the season's end, we can check back and take a look at our "predictions" and see how close (or how far off) the mark we were.

I'm not going to comment on first year players, but feel free to do so yourself.

I encourage everybody to throw up their own list, or if they'd prefer, make some comments/predictions on a select few.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second Year Pups:

Tom Campbell:
Where he's at: Played 7 games in his debut year which was a good effort for a rookie ruckman, despite the fact he's a little older than a typical 18 y.o who comes out of the draft. He appears to have a great work ethic and a willingness to compete. He takes the occasional strong grab and his second efforts are promising. Still very raw though and has much to learn. Currently behind Minson but given Roughy is now our FB and Cordy our FF, he's second in line for ruck duties.
Prediction: One would think he will certainly play more games than he did in his debut year, but he won't be overtaking Minson anytime soon. Needs to perform at a high standard in the VFL and continue to apply what he learns at AFL level. 10-15 games with the occasional good sign. I see him as a worthy longer term project.

Alex Greenwood:
Where he's at: Entering his second year as a rookie, Alex came to the club very raw and under developed. Added to this, he suffered an injury and missed most of his first pre-season. He did play some good football towards the end of Williamstown's campaign, which was encouraging.
Prediction: It's another development year for Greenwood. He is close to last in line in terms of small-medium mids, with other rookies also being preferred in terms of any sort of upgrade. He needs to really impress at VFL level if he's to keep his spot on the list. Unfortunately for him, his game is similar to what we already have, making things difficult for him. I predict he'll be delisted.

Lin Jong:
Where he's at: Played 4 games late in 2012 and equipped himself pretty well. Showed an ability to win the ball in contests, pick up possessions and showed he's got a lot of intensity and courage. On the downside, his disposal is well below average and his decision making is average.
Prediction: Could be a bit of a bolter. Still raw, but has great potential. His improvement trend has been rapid in the last 2-3 years. Elite pace, strong, good defensive skills, can find and win his own ball. I predict he'll have a very good year in the VFL and will be upgraded. Still a rookie currently so may have to settle for 5-10 games at the most if an injury comes.

Daniel Pearce:
Where he's at: Another player who came to the club very raw. Baby faced with a boy's body, but he's got a good frame to build upon and has a great attitude. Struggled in his first few games but played pretty well against North Melbourne before injury ended his season. 5 games was a decent effort.
Prediction: Should play 10-15 games. He has a lot to learn but the coach is a fan and I can see why. I think he'll certainly struggle and look out of place at times, but will have a solid learning curve year, and will prove he's worth persisting with. "Pain with promise", is a simple way of putting it for 2013.

Jack Redpath:
Where he's at: Struggled to make an impact at VFL level in his first season as a rookie, although he did play one outstanding half where he kicked 4 or 5 goals. Physically he's ready, but has much to learn about positioning and so forth.
Prediction: Unlikely to play any senior games unless his form is extremely good and we are hit by injuries. Not too many people are a fan of his, but I'm going to predict he'll get a third year on the list as a rookie.

Fletcher Roberts:
Where he's at: Stacked on quite a few kgs in his first pre-season, had a very good debut season in the VFL and shut down some 'AFL' forwards. Looks a natural, smart footballer. Played 2 games late in the year and looked OK -- a good effort for a young KPP taken in the PSD.
Prediction: Difficult to know if he'll be played as a defender or forward. Realistically he's down in the pecking order, but a few good games in the VFL would earn a call-up pretty quick I'd think. I'm going to predict 8-12 games for Roberts, where he shows an ability to read the play, execute his skills and display his composure.

Clay Smith:
Where he's at: Had a encouraging debut season. Played extremely well in round one with four goals, but did struggle at times after that. However, his second half of the season was impressive. Played 16 games and looked like he could become a very good player, despite an obvious deficiency in his kicking.
Prediction: 20+ games, improved kicking, improved endurance. Wouldn't surprise to see him take charge of games in small bursts with his style of play. Only a second year player, but expectations and my predictions are high.

Michael Talia:
Where he's at: He was already physically developed for such a young kid, but has packed on more size since his initial arrival. Not the best athlete in the world and his disposal is below average, but had a good season in the VFL and improved as the year went on. Did well in his 4 AFL games, showed he certainly has a real future as a KPD.
Prediction: 15 games possibly more. Still will have days when he's badly beaten and days when his disposal makes us cringe, but overall I predict an encouraging year.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Third Year Pups:

Luke Dahlhaus:
Where he's at: Started 2012 off very well but did taper towards the end before an injury ruled him out for the last quarter of the season or so. Played more midfield than he previously did and struggled against the better opposition. Arguably a much better forward than midfielder, but having said that, it was another good year from Dahl. His potential as we know is massive.
Prediction: More of the same. I think he's another year or two off really delivering on his potential, but I think he can have a good 2013 whereby he finds ways to be effective for longer. An improvement on 2012, but not a breakout year yet. Obviously plays 20+ barring injury.

Jason Johannisen:
Where he's at: Improved out of sight in 2012, performing very well at Williamstown straight away. An injury kept him from debuting in the AFL earlier than he did, and even though he only played the 3 games, he showed promise and deserved his list upgrading.
Prediction: To play 17+ games. Big fan of JJ's, think he's certainly ready to play the bulk of the season in the senior side. Elite pace, good skills and good decision maker. My tip for most improved.

Thomas Liberatore:
Where he's at: Made a great impression on the club in his debut year and was performing well in 2012 prior to his major screw-up later in the season, that saw him suspended from the club. Nevertheless, already elite by hand, very good by foot and is superb at the clearances.
Prediction: Tipping he'll have a big year and finish top 5 in the B&F. Not too many faults in his game aside from a lack of pace. Needs to keep improving his tank and that'll come, but I'm predicting he'll really consolidate himself as one of the game's best young mids. 20+ games barring injury.

Mitch Wallis:
Where he's at: Had a terrific 2012 season, grabbing the attention of the footy world with some impressive and consistent performances. Still needs to improve his disposal and endurance, but was the big improver of 2012.
Prediction: Hard to see anything but another strong year for Mitch, as he continues to improve his overall game. I think Libba may overtake him/edge slightly ahead, but I expect Wallis will have another good year. 20+ games barring injury.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fourth Year Dogs:

Christian Howard:
Where he's at: Played 11 games and had a couple of solid outings, including one down at Geelong. Physically he is ready and his endurance is in the top group. However, currently, he hasn't made a position on the ground his own. He is poor defensively and isn't damaging or creative enough with his disposal.
Prediction: He should be given ample opportunity to impress with 15+ games, but unfortunately, I don't think he's good enough. Hopefully he makes me eat humble pie with a very good year but at this stage, I think he's going to be exposed further which leaves him opened to being traded or delisted.

Jason Tutt:
Where he's at: Struggled with injury in 2012 which hampered his progress, but did return to crack 5 games later in the year. Those performances were disappointing, but he has elevated himself into the top group in terms of running so that should help.
Prediction: He has some attributes we lack such as pace and skill, but I question his decision making and his intensity. Again, sadly, I think he will struggle like Howard. I suspect he will show a few more signs than Christian and may have a few good games against lower opposition who afford him time and space, but by and large, I don't see Tutt cementing a spot in our side. Traded or delisted.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fifth Year Dogs:

Ayce Cordy:
Where he's at: The encouraging thing is that Ayce played a fair bit of footy and wasn't hampered by injury. Played 12 AFL matches predominately as a forward and did struggle to make an impact. Showed a few signs against North and Port, but looks more like a first year player as opposed to a fourth at the time. Has had injury setbacks which has delayed his progress, but needs to start delivering more in 2013.
Prediction: I think Ayce will struggle. His severe lack of intensity is my biggest concern -- he lacks presence and doesn't get off the ground enough in marking situations. As a KPF you need to crash packs and be a presence -- Ayce 'floats' and 'drifts' which perhaps suggests he's more of a ruck than a forward, given it's what they tend to do when they're plonked up forward. However, he's too slight to play ruck. Got a contract extension, but I predict we'll be questioning why much more by the year's end. Will play 15+ games.

Liam Jones:
Where he's at: After a good 2011 season, Jones had a disastrous 2012. Nothing went right, and he didn't even look AFL quality. Hopefully it was simply a bad year though, as we know he has proven he can play the game at the top level. By all reports has had a good pre-season and has improved his kicking technique.
Prediction: Should be a much better year for Jones. 18+ games and a return to his 2011-self with some strong marks, hard leads, defensive pressure but this time -- improved disposal both in field and on goal. Not suggesting he'll be a savior, but should have a good year to reinstate our faith.

Jordan Roughead:
Where he's at: Had an impressive 2012, playing in a variety of positions with some success in each of them. Found a spot as a FB in the later rounds and with Lake's departure has since been earmarked for that role full time. Questionable whether his attributes are suited to it, but he did show good signs against good opponents last year.
Prediction: 20+ games barring injury with some beltings coming along the way. Having said that, I really rate Roughy as one of our best young players and think he'll develop into an exceptional footballer. I predict he'll have an impressive season, beating some top grade talent in the process. He will find it tough when our midfield pressure drops though.

[Go_Dogs]

Great read TBB, thanks for going to the effort of putting that together. One thing I do notice is how good our 2010 off-season was for bringing quality players to the club - Wallis, Liberatore, Dahlhaus and Johannisen - all look like becoming high quality players.

I'm on board with most of your predictions, so will just comment on a couple.

Fletcher Roberts - I'm not really sure what to expect from Roberts this year, I think if he played 4/5 games that would be a good result. Form and injuries will be determining factors in whether or not he gets a run. I'd like to see us continue to develop him as a swing man as I thought he was solid down back at AFL level, and has shown a bit forward too. He moves ok for a KP, reads the ball well, and is a neat user by foot. Really, he just needs to play footy all year and if that's at VFL level I'm ok with it. Continuity and then ready for a big 2014 at AFL level.

Clay Smith - Like some others, I have increasingly high hopes about what Clay Smith can do. He's such a sharp, focused individual and he's definitely a bloke you'd want standing next to you on the field. Clay has some way to go to get there, but I think a good example for him is Joel Selwood who had a big impact in his early years. Joel was probably a bit more off half back in his second year still rather than a pure mid but I think Clay has the potential to have a similar impact for a second year player and average 20+ possessions a game as well as have a high contested ball, tackle and clearance count. If his disposal efficiency continues to improve we have a seriously good player. Not only expecting 20+ games from Clay but also a high finish in the B&F.

[Mofra]

Pretty good assessments there TBB, I'll add my 2c on a couple of them:

Tom Campbell - he'll stay on the list and take over as no 1 ruck when Minson is gone in a few years, but I am still unconvinced that he can play the no 2 ruck role (just as Minson struggled when Huddo was our no 1 ruck).

Daniel Pearce - By all accounts he's looking quicker this pre-season which is a positive, as a HBFer of his size without pace is going to struggle at AFL level.

Jack Redpath - I see a bit of Adam Morgan in him; has size and endeavour but struggles to find the ball. I didn't see much potential last year, I;d love for him to prove me wrong.

Fletcher Roberts - I see more potential in him that in alot of other KPPs. I'd love for him to play forward a bit more (he did well when thrown forward for Willy in the VFL finals series) but I think he's ben earmarked as a backman.

Ayce Cordy - He's a virtual 2nd/3rd year player and at his height is still firmly in the developing stage. Expecting him to be our F50 savior will lead to disappointment at this stage.

[Remi Moses]

Good read.
Howard in all honesty missed his first year so reality this is his 3rd year.
Tutt the same, he basically missed last season.
Little early on those two.

[bornadog]

Fantastic read and analysis TBB, looks like you couldn't sleep last night.

Redpath is the one I think is lucky to be on the list at all. He really must show something at Willi this year or I think he won't get the third year on the rookie list as you predict. He did show some glimpses last year and he has a booming kick. Whether he can make it to the next level, I think we will find out this year.

[The Underdog]

Fantastic read and analysis TBB, looks like you couldn't sleep last night.

Redpath is the one I think is lucky to be on the list at all. He really must show something at Willi this year or I think he won't get the third year on the rookie list as you predict. He did show some glimpses last year and he has a booming kick. Whether he can make it to the next level, I think we will find out this year.

He was clearly coming from a long way back fitness wise and I have to say on Friday night he showed a good ability to time his lead and lead at the man with the ball and showed some physicality. He also fumbled a couple of marking attempts which hopefully was down to the speed of the game or nerves. Whether he has enough tricks to get a game at AFL level is something we'll find out this year. With a full pre-season under him he needs to really lift his game at VFL level from last year to justify a 3rd season. He's a big burly old style full forward so there'll certainly be a segment of the supporter base that will be pulling for him to get games, justified or not.

[F'scary]

Dahlhaus: needs to have the star pressure taken off him by giving him tagging roles all season. Picken gets the opposition's number one midfielder, Dahlhaus the number 2. He can line up at the bounce on HFF but then go immediately to his tag.

With Dahlhaus, it seems to me that he sparkles best when he's typecast into defensive roles - the opposition settles into treating him as a low possession tagger and then he bobs up with some neat attacking stuff when it's not expected.

[Cyberdoggie]

Can't disagree with too many of those TBB:

My two cents:

Greenwood: I think this kid has gone under the radar because he started from rock bottom at Willy reserves. Made huge improvements to not only be a regular but to be pretty much Willy's best ball user in the last few rounds and finals.
Greenwood has great foot skills off both sides, i think he puts Howard's "wonder boot" to shame, and he's reasonably tough for a whisp of a lad, without being a clay smith type.

I think he'll surprise a few this year just as JJ did last year, but of course there are doubts on him, ie pace, fitness, size and position. I expect him to be one of our best at Willy this year.

Redpath: I'd like him to do well but i just can't see it happening. I agree with Mofra, he's a bit of a Morgan type, all brawn but doesn't have anything really special about him as a key forward. I don't even think he's a very good body player which is way he'll struggle.
Would love to be wrong though.

Lin Jong: Will improve but is going to frustrate the hell out of us with his turnovers from poor decision and skill errors. The upside is he's a ball magnet. He's like Jack Russell on a tennis court running around like a madman after the ball.

Fletcher Roberts: he's in a minority class at the dogs because he's got raw skill. Got a bit of the Chris Grant's about him and could be anything if he can put all together on the park.
My doubt is that he goes missing at times.


Christian Howard: I've given him a chance and he rarely does anything that impresses me. He does however make some crucial blunders under pressure. Not sure you can teach that out of someone.


Also it wouldn't surprise me to see some of our first year kids go past many on this list.
Hrovat, Stringer, Macrae, Prudden and Hunter all look like classy players.

[Eastdog]

Could Christian Howard be delisted if he keeps going the way he is. If he doesn't improve then that could be a reason to delist and develop another player who could be better in his spot. I think we give players lots of chances but if they don't show it then as a club we have to make the necessary cuts. What would you say to people that they don't rate Will Minson before last season.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Great post TBB

I'm similarly bullish on JJ, Libba, Wallis & Smith, and really excited about the development of JJ.

I was delighted to read your comments on Roughie - the only thing that surprised me last year was that he didn't kick better for goal, when throughout his career he has been a delightfully balanced kick, for a 200cm guy. I just dont want to listen if people tell me he isn't a good kick for goal, Ive repeatedly seen him in practice games kick goals from all over the place.

I also think Pearce is a v.good prospect

I think we are being a bit too quick to judge Ayce based on the forward delivery in the preseason game. I struggle to remember one ball that was well directed to him. Sure, I agree its a crucial year, but its only now that he's looking close to physically ready. I still have high hopes for him, but he has a ways to go.

I could see with a bit of luck that both Howard and Tutt could turn it around, but I could also see it not happening.

Howard needs to find a way to take the game on a bit more, using his gut running and actually backing his kicking skills more. If Tutt can stay fit, he could really have an impact. I believe we are too quick to judge him on a year where he had what 3 hammies and quad injury. He was barely fit. But he does need to be better 1 on 1 - the wing appears to be his spot, but could he get stronger one on one and become a rebounding defender. I still like the idea of him as a back pocket with JJ as the other rebounding play maker.

[Cyberdoggie]

I should of also added that i'm worried about Wallis.

I think he'll bottom out pretty quickly unless he develops his game.

His improvement last year was basically because he cut out all the parts of his game where he was lacking confidence or struggling to make the grade (kicking, run and carry, outside play). Mitch changed from a mostly outside midfielder to an in and under handball flicker. Wallis easily has a more lopsided kick to handball ratio than Cross has ever had, yet we now look at crossy as one dimensional and on the way out.

When Wallis was in the TAC cup, it was always libba who was the douer inside player who always fed it out to Wallis the outside player. Well today Wallis is more inside than Libba is. I just hope that he works on holding the ball more and being a more attacking player that uses the ball with his feet, or he won't improve at all.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Fantastic read and analysis TBB, looks like you couldn't sleep last night.

Redpath is the one I think is lucky to be on the list at all. He really must show something at Willi this year or I think he won't get the third year on the rookie list as you predict. He did show some glimpses last year and he has a booming kick. Whether he can make it to the next level, I think we will find out this year.

Spot on, couldn't sleep, and thought of this for a thread idea! :D

Just on Redpath I am undecided as to whether he'll actually make it, I haven't quite seen enough yet, but I predict that he'll show enough for the coaching staff to invest one more year into him as a rookie. So I guess my predictions aren't exactly high, but not rock bottom either.


I should of also added that i'm worried about Wallis.

I think he'll bottom out pretty quickly unless he develops his game.

His improvement last year was basically because he cut out all the parts of his game where he was lacking confidence or struggling to make the grade (kicking, run and carry, outside play). Mitch changed from a mostly outside midfielder to an in and under handball flicker. Wallis easily has a more lopsided kick to handball ratio than Cross has ever had, yet we now look at crossy as one dimensional and on the way out.

When Wallis was in the TAC cup, it was always libba who was the douer inside player who always fed it out to Wallis the outside player. Well today Wallis is more inside than Libba is. I just hope that he works on holding the ball more and being a more attacking player that uses the ball with his feet, or he won't improve at all.

Great work on coming up with a bold prediction -- these are the sorts of posts I had in mind when creating the thread. Kind of like sticking your neck out there and declaring one thing or another on a certain player.

Interesting points you do raise Cyber and I can't disagree with some of them. He definitely needs to work on his outside game and he has spoken about this a few times over the last 12 months. This is partly why I think Libba will pass him/create a gap this season, as I think Tom can be a damaging player by both foot and hand, whereas Mitch's obvious weakness is his disposal by foot.

[F'scary]

I should of also added that i'm worried about Wallis.

I think he'll bottom out pretty quickly unless he develops his game.

His improvement last year was basically because he cut out all the parts of his game where he was lacking confidence or struggling to make the grade (kicking, run and carry, outside play). Mitch changed from a mostly outside midfielder to an in and under handball flicker. Wallis easily has a more lopsided kick to handball ratio than Cross has ever had, yet we now look at crossy as one dimensional and on the way out.

When Wallis was in the TAC cup, it was always libba who was the douer inside player who always fed it out to Wallis the outside player. Well today Wallis is more inside than Libba is. I just hope that he works on holding the ball more and being a more attacking player that uses the ball with his feet, or he won't improve at all.

I'm not worried about Napoleon. His whole game is around high possession winning in heavily congested areas. His quick, low trajectory, under weighted kicking style (which I thought very effective) reflects this. He is similar imo to Scotty West and Robot Harvey, two top line players who moulded their disposal styles to fit the circumstances of their possession gathering - usually in heavy traffic, heavily tagged, constantly dodging, being bumped all the time, with only one stride maximum to dispose of the ball or having to stand up in tackles the moment they take possession. As an "adult" footballer he is a slippery inside mid.

[Pedro Sanchez]

Good thread. My thoughts o a few players are

• Tom Campbell – looks an honest battler who we’ll get a few good years out of, but not really expecting he’ll be an elite ruckman in the comp.

• Lin Jong – as pointed out his skills are rubbish and decision making pretty average but gee he has a crack. Cant help but love his attack on the ball and opposition. Purely for these elements, I think he’ll make it – just great to have mini wrecking ball in the side. Long term I see him as an ideal back pocket or tagging midfielder.

• Daniel Pearce – I like him. think he oozes class and will become a very accomplished winger / HB. Still has some work to do but he reminds me a lot of a quicker version of Ken Hinkley. Almost a calm and assured figure across half back

• Jack Redpath – like other posters, just don’t see him cutting it although I hope he does. Not sure why, just appeals as one of those players that it’be great to see them dominating our forward line and making a real presence.

• Fletcher Roberts – looks quality but has some work ahead of him. Looking forward to watching him develop.

Clay Smith – much like Jong, you cant go past his hardness and competitive spirit. Going to be a monster of an inside mid. Just hope he is surrounded by classy outside players who can make the most of his ball winning ability in and around the packs.

• Michael Talia – looks good. Think he’ll be a long term member of our back six.

• Jason Johannisen – looks very classy. Will havew a big impact in the team becoming a top contender again, albeit in maybe 2 or 3 years time. like him a lot for all the reasons already stated.

• Christian Howard – from reading a lot of comments on Howard I’m definitely in the more positive half of supporters. Think he’s been written off a little too early. Has some tidy skills and kicks well – think he can make a wing or a flank his own over the next 2 years.

• Jason Tutt – similar to Howard I like him too. Showed so much in that game against Port that makes me think he has more to offer than most. Think he could become a Leigh Montagna sort of player for us. Lots of run and carry and then finishing as well. Hope he gets a good run at it to prove himself…

[westdog54]

Really good thread, not sure there's much more i can add.

The three I'm really looking forward to watching this year are Wallis, Smith and JJ.

Wallis will be Captain of the club within 3 years. Matured considerably last year and flew past Libba in the pecking order. Looking forward to seeing if he can develop his outside skills.

Smith surprised a lot of people last season, and I was one of them. I think he realises his disposal by foot is far from elite and makes his decisions accordingly on the field. When he has the fitness and conditioning to run out a full game he'll be just about unstoppable.

As for JJ, burst onto the scene out of nowhere and showed some real dash and skill off half back. Can't wait to see how much improvement he has in him.

[Ghost Dog]

We lack pace badly; even with the youth injection. A lot of hand wringing over our kicking, but our lack of pace is a major worry.

[Bulldog Joe]

We lack pace badly; even with the youth injection. A lot of hand wringing over our kicking, but our lack of pace is a major worry,.

Pace is over rated. Cross has made a career despite being probably the slowest straight line runner of all time. He does make up for it with elite endurance and amazing courage. Despite being slow running is one of his strengths.

We do however have some pace in the young players with Jong, JJ and Tutt all having zip.

[GVGjr]

When looking through the list of the younger players not many of them are known for their pace and skill level which is a concern.

Will add some thoughts later.

[Mofra]

We lack pace badly; even with the youth injection. A lot of hand wringing over our kicking, but our lack of pace is a major worry,.
Geelong weren't a pacy side yet still moved the ball quickly enough to get themselves out of trouble - a side that is slow of foot can still be quicker than the opposition when it counts.

[Maddog37]

Pace is over rated. Cross has made a career despite being probably the slowest straight line runner of all time. He does make up for it with elite endurance and amazing courage. Despite being slow running is one of his strengths.

We do however have some pace in the young players with Jong, JJ and Tutt all having zip.

Griff, Cooney and Pearce are not slow either. Hrovat and Macrae cover the ground ok and I am not sure about Prudden.

Clay might be sneaky quick too but it would be nice to have a Jetta/Varcoe type in the mix to break the game up.

[Mantis]

Geelong weren't a pacy side yet still moved the ball quickly enough to get themselves out of trouble - a side that is slow of foot can still be quicker than the opposition when it counts.

That fact Geelong are blessed with a high proportion of elite kickers allows them to play the way they do... If we took the risks they do we would get beat by even more.

[DragzLS1]

Griff, Cooney and Pearce are not slow either. Hrovat and Macrae cover the ground ok and I am not sure about Prudden.

Clay might be sneaky quick too but it would be nice to have a Jetta/Varcoe type in the mix to break the game up.



Dahlhaus anybody? We are talking about pace suprised nobody has brought this little speedster up.. He did also run down Yarran last year in that epic loss we had.. Remmeber Griffen even saying to Yarran, DId you jsut get caught?? with a cheeky smile :p

[Mofra]

That fact Geelong are blessed with a high proportion of elite kickers allows them to play the way they do... If we took the risks they do we would get beat by even more.
I think there's a bit of structure invovled here too - yes they have good footskills, but by moving the ball quicker they actually give teammates a little bit of extra time to spot up options under less immediate pressure, which in turn helps disposal efficiency.

Our propensity to give the ball off under pressure to flat-footed teammates is causing us further trouble - it will be worrying if our midfield set-up doesn't change significantly this year.

[always right]

Dahlhaus anybody? We are talking about pace suprised nobody has brought this little speedster up.. He did also run down Yarran last year in that epic loss we had.. Remmeber Griffen even saying to Yarran, DId you jsut get caught?? with a cheeky smile :p

I might be wrong (unlikely) but I recall it being Tutt who ran down Yarran....but agree that Dahlhaus has pace. He's not lightening quick by any means but he has good acceleration and unique running patterns that make him hard to catch.

Of those who have regularly played senior footy I think we only have three players with genuine break the lines pace....Griffen, Dahlhaus and Cooney (when fully fit). Murphy is the next level down although he also has amazing balance and evasive skills. Wood has good pace in a straight line but is not explosive. After that I'm battling to find many with genuine pace.

Regardless of how well you move the ball you still need a a player on each line that can create something simply by their ability to take the game on with their speed. Unfortunately we have a deadly combination;
- Lack of genuine pace
- Below par disposal skills
- A gameplan that is still in early development

[Ghost Dog]

That fact Geelong are blessed with a high proportion of elite kickers allows them to play the way they do... If we took the risks they do we would get beat by even more.

Not just blessed. They put a higher premium on it. Geelong has always prized ' flashy ' football.
We get heaps of the ball, but what's the point if it gets turned over?

[Ghost Dog]

Geelong weren't a pacy side yet still moved the ball quickly enough to get themselves out of trouble - a side that is slow of foot can still be quicker than the opposition when it counts.

Geelong has had some good runners in its midfield over the years. We need more pace in our midfield. But not much on the list, so expect many a drubbing this season. Going to get ugly unless we can inject some run and carry - our skills are not enough to make up for the lack of speed.

[Cyberdoggie]

I think there's a bit of structure invovled here too - yes they have good footskills, but by moving the ball quicker they actually give teammates a little bit of extra time to spot up options under less immediate pressure, which in turn helps disposal efficiency.

Our propensity to give the ball off under pressure to flat-footed teammates is causing us further trouble - it will be worrying if our midfield set-up doesn't change significantly this year.

I'm with you there.

I wonder if they actually practice moving and spreading in their drills as opposed to standing around a circle and handballing a lot.

[bornadog]

I'm with you there.

I wonder if they actually practice moving and spreading in their drills as opposed to standing around a circle and handballing a lot.

In 2005, Rocket decided quick ball movement and getting the ball to the forward line as fast as possible was the way to go. We showed this style in the second half of 2005 and thus a new game plan was born.

Geelong copied our style and took it to a new level, mainly due to a superior midfield and a great backline with some genuine talls in the forward line. To counteract our style and Geelong's, the Saints, the Hawks and the Swans introduced their own negative defensive style. Collingwood took that to another level in 2011 with forward pressure and we saw last year a new style born by the Swans.

Unfortunately, we were found wanting in 2010 with our quick movement game plan, which just goes to show, you have to keep inventing and changing.

[F'scary]

In 2005, Rocket decided quick ball movement and getting the ball to the forward line as fast as possible was the way to go. We showed this style in the second half of 2005 and thus a new game plan was born.



Memories. We were a great team to watch in that era.

[LongWait]

Memories. We were a great team to watch in that era.

I still think we were flat track bullies and more often than not couldn't defeat the very top teams each year.

[jeemak]

I still think we were flat track bullies and more often than not couldn't defeat the very top teams each year.

Kind of like a team that finished third, rather than first in each of those years?

[w3design]

Pace is such a vexing question. Are we talking here acceleration, top speed, sustained speed, straight line or evasive speed. Then there is speed of mind, pace with hands or kicking, and the edge and time given to players who have elite peripheral vision.
Any one or two of these attributes can have a player seen as being "quick".

In reality there are very few true sprinters in our sport, as the other requirements of the game eliminate those who's only real attribute is speed. As I have said previously, if you had a team of 22 Usain Bolts, you would never win a match.
Yes I would love one or two of our players to have the pace of a Jetta or two. I cannot think of one of these greyhound types who performs in more than short bursts within games, but doesn't then disappear for prolonged periods.
Again, what sort of pace are we looking for? Some who are 'quick' are like a young Coons, and achieve top pace within their first handful of strides, but then motor on at a steady rate. Others can take 8-10 paces before they get close to their top speed. Some can sustain pace for a useful distance while others run out of steam pretty swiftly and then come back to the field.

As several posters have pointed out our players on the periphery of packs are frequently flat footed when the ball comes out from our extractors, and for mine that is a coaching/training issue. Shouldn't the in and under players within the pack at the moment of extraction move immediately to protect the receiver, giving him clear air to accelerate away, rather than standing about and watching him get tackled before he has a chance to move off. That is a structural problem, that can and should be fixed.

As for Geelong, I don't believe that they over their successful era have been especially fleet of foot. To me, their 'speed' came from rapid movement of the ball, and almost perpetual motion. This is something given our paying list, and the number of off field staff that came out of, and experienced the Geelong playing style and it's development, we should be trying to make the key to our game.
Once you have possession keep the ball in continual motion until it reaches a player in clear space. He will then have time to decide on his best available option for moving it on, and more time to exercise his skills to the best of his ability. HOPEFULLY !!

[Ghost Dog]

Pace is such a vexing question. Are we talking here acceleration, top speed, sustained speed, straight line or evasive speed. Then there is speed of mind, pace with hands or kicking, and the edge and time given to players who have elite peripheral vision.
Any one or two of these attributes can have a player seen as being "quick".



The biggest question mark is over our midfield. Being able to run means you're not always under pressure. Take Dahlhaus; he doesn't always have to dish it off, because he knows he can evade and usually burn off an opponent. It's all about options. Once your midfield is full of slow, in and under types, just limits what opportunities you can create.

[w3design]

The biggest question mark is over our midfield. Being able to run means you're not always under pressure. Take Dahlhaus; he doesn't always have to dish it off, because he knows he can evade and usually burn off an opponent. It's all about options. Once your midfield is full of slow, in and under types, just limits what opportunities you can create.

To a degree I concur, however to me the problem is not so much having 3 slower paced in and under types in the square, it lies in having more of the same then on the periphery.
Having say Smith, Wal and Boyd or Higgins inside is ok provided there are runner/distributors outside to capitalise on their work. That is simply not going to happen if you then put Howard and Crossy on the wings.
If you have only one runner outside [ eg Griff or Dal] the opposition coach hardly needs to be Einstein to figure if you put a stopper on that player, holding the ball up becomes a piece of cake.
If you are going to use that type of square/stoppage set up, then you need runners on the outside, and more than one.
I don't see the problem as the players we have, more how we use them.

[LongWait]

Kind of like a team that finished third, rather than first in each of those years?

It's more than that isn't it?

We looked great against teams who were not going to challenge for the flag. We rarely beat the premiership contending teams in the home and away season and never in finals. We failed in virtually every big game we played during this period.

That's the quintessential flat track bully for you.

[bornadog]

It's more than that isn't it?

We looked great against teams who were not going to challenge for the flag. We rarely beat the premiership contending teams in the home and away season and never in finals. We failed in virtually every big game we played during this period.

That's the quintessential flat track bully for you.

Geelong and Collingwood last two rounds 2009. Prelim by a whisker. In the end its just luck, but we are going over old ground, when the discussion was on pace.

[Greystache]

Geelong and Collingwood last two rounds 2009. Prelim by a whisker. In the end its just luck, but we are going over old ground, when the discussion was on pace.

10 wins from 57 attempts (from memory) is a big enough sample size to rule out luck.

[Ghost Dog]

To a degree I concur, however to me the problem is not so much having 3 slower paced in and under types in the square, it lies in having more of the same then on the periphery.
Having say Smith, Wal and Boyd or Higgins inside is ok provided there are runner/distributors outside to capitalise on their work. That is simply not going to happen if you then put Howard and Crossy on the wings.
If you have only one runner outside [ eg Griff or Dal] the opposition coach hardly needs to be Einstein to figure if you put a stopper on that player, holding the ball up becomes a piece of cake.
If you are going to use that type of square/stoppage set up, then you need runners on the outside, and more than one.
I don't see the problem as the players we have, more how we use them.

Yeah fair comments. Anyway, one can't make silk out of burlap.We have the list we have. If anyone puts on the colors and plays with their heart, I'll cheer along. But the reality is we lack any real ' game winners' and that's what we need. Maybe Stringer will become one.

[bornadog]

10 wins from 57 attempts (from memory) is a big enough sample size to rule out luck.

The luck I was talking about was the 2009 prelim

[jeemak]

It's more than that isn't it?

We looked great against teams who were not going to challenge for the flag. We rarely beat the premiership contending teams in the home and away season and never in finals. We failed in virtually every big game we played during this period.

That's the quintessential flat track bully for you.

No mate, not in my opinion. Apart from 2009 we weren't as good as the top two teams, and just because we made some seriously crap teams look silly over a three or four year period it doesn't make us flat track bullies.

It's an overly simple way to look at things, to be honest. I mean, how do you not be flat track bullies? By beating teams better than you and losing to teams worse than you?

Anyway, back on track!

I'm going to post on topic after Friday's game against the Faaawks. I haven't seen the Pups this season and I need to see how they're moving.

[Remi Moses]

Couple of young players at Melbourne looked good.
Hogan looked sensational ( better than Dawes!)and Toumpas also.

[The Pie Man]

Not sure if this is the right thread...this does discuss our youth policy though

http://theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/time-for-seasoned-to-be-jolly-20130222-2exec.html

The below is part of the article relevant to us.



If the Sydneys and Richmonds of the AFL are the obvious banner-wavers for needs-specific recruiting of experienced talent, the Bulldogs are towards the other end of the scale.

Essendon is the obvious stand-out, with just one player from another AFL club on its list this year, though that player – former St Kilda star Brendon Goddard – is a sizeable name indeed, but the Dogs have only five, three of whom – Koby Stevens, Tom Young and Nick Lower – have come aboard only this pre-season.

Coach Brendan McCartney is a feted developer of youngsters at AFL level, and the Dogs were burnt to a degree by their recent dabbles in trading, players such as Justin Sherman and Nathan Djerrkura having already come and gone.

But there remain plenty of raised eyebrows among the Dogs rivals about their relative reluctance to plunder the lists of other AFL clubs.
One official from a club which continues to do well out of rival lists said this week he was "staggered" by the extent to which the Bulldogs had remained content to develop from within. "I can't believe it. It's all well and good to say you're going to rebuild through the draft, but the way their list looks, I reckon that could take them up to six years."

[FrediKanoute]

Wow.....6 years. I think there is an element of truth in what has been said there. At our peak we should have topped up. We were gun-shy in chasing Bazza, who would probably have got us over the line in 09.

In terms of now though, its a little different. Would chasing a Cloke or a Pendlebury or a Tippet really have made a difference? Carlton 5 or 6 years ago chased Judd, arguably the best mid in the comp at the time. It hasn't really brought them a great deal of success. Maybe its accellerated Gibbs and Murphy's development, but in reality they had enough talent that they would probably have made it anyway.

I agree Sherman and Djkerra were mistakes.....again, probably 2 seasons to late for both of them. However, would our decline/development really have been hindered/hurried by their recruitment/non-recruitment. To me the problem is more one of selection and development as well as a complete change in philosophy.

Selection - the type of player we selected in the drafts has been a problem. The Everitt draft was a disaster - not one left on our list. The next draft not much better. The Howard/Tutt draft is not looking great. So arguably we haven't had a great drafting record and that's why we have toped up with Stevens and Lower.

Development - a constant complaint through the Eade era was just how little off filed support we had. Heck we had to ask supporters to put up the funds for a rookie one year. Given how rich the rookie draft has proven to be not having the full compliment leaves us behind other teams. That coupled with an underfunded footy department means our kids don't develop as quick as our opponents or worse develop bad habits which they can't shake.

Change in Philosophy - Eade and McCarthy are poles apart in they way they coach and they way they want to develop a team. McCarthy inheireted a series of drafts presided over by Eade where Eade type playes were taken, so it is going to take time for McCarthy type players to come through. Pulling in Lower, Stevens and Goodes is part of this process, part of the expediting of the process, buying some bigger bodies to soak up the punishment of what is a pretty physically demanding game plan.

[bornadog]

Wow.....6 years. I think there is an element of truth in what has been said there. At our peak we should have topped up. We were gun-shy in chasing Bazza, who would probably have got us over the line in 09.

You don't think we chased Bazza in 2009? We tried but he was contracted and the Swans wanted to keep him.

In todays footy it could take 6 years but then again it could take another couple of seasons, you just don't know how players are going to develop. Harbrow and Ward in the team and the drafting looks much better as the whole team does and we wouldn't be talking about how badly we drafted in the last couple of years..

[LongWait]

The Connolly article is very poor journalism in my view.

On the one hand Connolly says we suffered from recruiting players from other clubs and yet he also claims we should recruit more players from other clubs. We have always recruited players from other clubs, as we did in the last trade/draft periods. You could argue we have made some poor selections, but to bag us and praise Melbourne for our recruiting last year is pretty poor form - especially in light of this weeks' events.

[Greystache]

Pointless article to fill column inches while not much is happening. You know that in a few months when Melbourne are rubbish and Richmond has missed the finals he'll write another article criticising the recruiting of recycled players and lack of faith in the draft and their ability to develop youth.

These type of articles get written on the flavour of the day, forgotten tomorrow, and contradicted next month. Mike Sheehan was a classic for it.

[Remi Moses]

Rohan's usually quite good, but really this is space filling in between seasons stuff.
I'd rather pick up players via F/A or other clubs when we're in finals mode to be honest.
For a Melbourne and Richmond I'll give you a Brisbane.Scattergun recruiting that failed miserably.Following the Geelong template,they didn't recruit anyone from the outside of any significance until Ottens in 04.

[Remi Moses]

Pointless article to fill column inches while not much is happening. You know that in a few months when Melbourne are rubbish and Richmond has missed the finals he'll write another article criticising the recruiting of recycled players and lack of faith in the draft and their ability to develop youth.

These type of articles get written on the flavour of the day, forgotten tomorrow, and contradicted next month. Mike Sheehan was a classic for it.

Spot on. Robert Walls also was a classic in that regard.

[Ghost Dog]

But there remain plenty of raised eyebrows among the Dogs rivals about their relative reluctance to plunder the lists of other AFL clubs.
One official from a club which continues to do well out of rival lists said this week he was "staggered" by the extent to which the Bulldogs had remained content to develop from within. "I can't believe it. It's all well and good to say you're going to rebuild through the draft, but the way their list looks, I reckon that could take them up to six years."

Not a lot of players are going to want to come to us.

[LongWait]

Rohan's usually quite good, but really this is space filling in between seasons stuff.
I'd rather pick up players via F/A or other clubs when we're in finals mode to be honest.
For a Melbourne and Richmond I'll give you a Brisbane.Scattergun recruiting that failed miserably.Following the Geelong template,they didn't recruit anyone from the outside of any significance until Ottens in 04.

I like your citing of the Brisbane example Remi. Examples of poor recruiting abound via the draft and via trading/drafting mature age players.

[Remi Moses]

Not a lot of players are going to want to come to us.

They will if we throw big coin ala Mitch Clark.

[stefoid]

Its true that there is no use being a team of developing youngsters at the same time as GC and GWS who are also teams full of developing youngsters, but with much deeper quality. We absolutely need mature players and a hard-arsed attitude to maintain an edge over those teams, or they will leave us in the dust in two years time.

But that article is off the mark - we only have a few traded-in players on our list right now not because we dont try to get players from other clubs, but because most of the ones we did trade in werent up to scratch and we got rid of them.

[bornadog]

Its true that there is no use being a team of developing youngsters at the same time as GC and GWS who are also teams full of developing youngsters, but with much deeper quality. We absolutely need mature players and a hard-arsed attitude to maintain an edge over those teams, or they will leave us in the dust in two years time.

But that article is off the mark - we only have a few traded-in players on our list right now not because we dont try to get players from other clubs, but because most of the ones we did trade in werent up to scratch and we got rid of them.

Another big plus for us is the rookie upgrades. We tried out players like Dahl, JJ, Campbell, over the past two years and we know what we are getting. They are not raw recruits, they have played against the men in the VFL. I think we did well to get Lower and Stevens to top up as they are at a good age and hopefully they will perform.

Overall, at this stage I am happy with our recruiting and perhaps next year we can go after a bigger name player if we need to.

[jeemak]

Why would you recruit a bunch of players in drafts, and not wait for them to give an indication of how your list might fill out, and what it might need to be topped up with? Why would you not build a list with the benefits of early draft picks?

Recruiting ready made players is OK, but to get them to your club you need to have reasonable players on your list that are sundry to requirements, draft picks or gun players that aren't going to be around for the next tilt to trade for them.

Plus, there needs to be quality players available.

[Remi Moses]

Its true that there is no use being a team of developing youngsters at the same time as GC and GWS who are also teams full of developing youngsters, but with much deeper quality. We absolutely need mature players and a hard-arsed attitude to maintain an edge over those teams, or they will leave us in the dust in two years time.

But that article is off the mark - we only have a few traded-in players on our list right now not because we dont try to get players from other clubs, but because most of the ones we did trade in werent up to scratch and we got rid of them.

Not sure if GC have picked up the right types though.
Seems to be a lot of Skinny types( sounds familiar)

[FrediKanoute]

You don't think we chased Bazza in 2009? We tried but he was contracted and the Swans wanted to keep him.

In todays footy it could take 6 years but then again it could take another couple of seasons, you just don't know how players are going to develop. Harbrow and Ward in the team and the drafting looks much better as the whole team does and we wouldn't be talking about how badly we drafted in the last couple of years..

My point was that we were unwilling to sell the farm for him. Most here would have screamed murder if we had given away a first rounder or a young kid, yet I think Bazza in 2009 would have been the difference. It would have been a win win trade.

[GVGjr]

The players I think we can see some improvement in are Johannisen, Smith, Talia and Dahlhaus.

Johannisen - should be able to play 12 senior games providing he stays injury free. He provides us with some pace that we lack and some poise and kicking skills that we also need.
I think I'm keeping my expectations realistic because I'm sure his form will fluctuate and that we will try a few different options through the season.

Smith - will benefit for another preseason but he will also need some breaks through the year.
Competition will be huge for midfield spots so Smith needs to become a factor as a forward. His kicking skills still concern me but he is a hard worker and should get a lot better.

Talia - will get games by default given we are looking to fast track him. He is a competitive type and hopefully the reports that he has improved his mobility are spot on. I think he could get 10 to 14 games this year.

Dahlhaus - has been used mainly as a forward and we all love his work ethic but I think his pace is now required to spend a lot more time in the midfield.

Some of the players I'm concerned about include Liberatore, Cordy, Howard and Tutt

Liberatore - is coming back off a highly distracted season and while there is no doubting his football ability, I don't think fixing the issues he experienced last season is as easy as some people might believe. At his best he gets picked every week but if he hasn't committed himself then he could once again be a distraction.

Cordy - every thing is ready for Cordy to make a big step forward because he has had a nice injury free preseason. He needs to be able to hold his marks up forward and provide 5 minutes in the ruck each quarter to become a regular player. I'm not sure he is ready but excuses are running out for him and its a crunch season.

Howard - is a player I like and I know I will sound like a broken record but while his good games are more than acceptable his bad ones are fairly ugly. He was another youngster who had some distractions last year and if can get focused he can be a valuable player for us.

Tutt - provides some attributes that we really need in our side with his pace and kicking skills but he hasn't really established a spot in the side. He needs a close look at Dahlhaus and see what else he can add to his game. It's easy to say he won't make it because of his height but there are a number of guys around his size in the AFL who have no problems getting a game.

I don't have high expectations on Wallis taking another step forward this year because last efforts last year were impressive. I'd be delighted if he did but I think we need to wait a couple of more years before we see him at his best.
Jones and Roughead have big years ahead of them.

[Ghost Dog]

Ok, thanks for that. How do you feel about the Roughy experiment down back?
I actually feel more confident with him than Cordy as a forward.....

[DragzLS1]

Ok, thanks for that. How do you feel about the Roughy experiment down back?
I actually feel more confident with him than Cordy as a forward.....

I'm really looking forward to roughy down back and like you am more confident in him making it there then Cordy up forward. Think jones will do marginally better this season with the big improvers being jj and talia.

Top goal scoters will be higgens and Gia with grant coming in 3rd or 4th. I just have a feeling

[Ghost Dog]

I'm really looking forward to roughy down back and like you am more confident in him making it there then Cordy up forward. Think jones will do marginally better this season with the big improvers being jj and talia.

Top goal scoters will be higgens and Gia with grant coming in 3rd or 4th. I just have a feeling

Could be on the money with that prediction DGLS1

How good was Gia in the first few minutes V Collingwood? I love watching him play on O'Brien as he regularly out foxes him, despite giving up a height, weight and speed advantage. I reckon he might just rise to the occasion, his last year with us. Going to enjoy watching him this season.

[GVGjr]

Ok, thanks for that. How do you feel about the Roughy experiment down back?
I actually feel more confident with him than Cordy as a forward.....

I understand why we are trying Roughead as a key defender but I think he is better suited long term to being a forward and ruckman. Very happy if he proves me wrong.

[Ghost Dog]

Have to agree.
Roughead is quite a clever player and when you stitch together some highlights it becomes clear he quite a bit of footy 'sense' - a real premium around the goals.

Eg: Toe Poke for goal V North in the NAB last year. Blind Turn and goal V Port - round ?

[Mofra]

Top goal scoters will be higgens and Gia with grant coming in 3rd or 4th. I just have a feeling
I'm still backing Dickson in to lead our goal scoring

[Sedat]

Not sure if this is the right thread...this does discuss our youth policy though

http://theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/time-for-seasoned-to-be-jolly-20130222-2exec.html

The below is part of the article relevant to us.



If the Sydneys and Richmonds of the AFL are the obvious banner-wavers for needs-specific recruiting of experienced talent, the Bulldogs are towards the other end of the scale.

Essendon is the obvious stand-out, with just one player from another AFL club on its list this year, though that player – former St Kilda star Brendon Goddard – is a sizeable name indeed, but the Dogs have only five, three of whom – Koby Stevens, Tom Young and Nick Lower – have come aboard only this pre-season.

Coach Brendan McCartney is a feted developer of youngsters at AFL level, and the Dogs were burnt to a degree by their recent dabbles in trading, players such as Justin Sherman and Nathan Djerrkura having already come and gone.

But there remain plenty of raised eyebrows among the Dogs rivals about their relative reluctance to plunder the lists of other AFL clubs.
One official from a club which continues to do well out of rival lists said this week he was "staggered" by the extent to which the Bulldogs had remained content to develop from within. "I can't believe it. It's all well and good to say you're going to rebuild through the draft, but the way their list looks, I reckon that could take them up to six years."
Rohan is one of the better scribes out there but agree with other people's assessment of this article - it is throwaway filler on a quiet weekend for footy. What the scribes never point out is that the crap U18 recruit is still crap, and also the crap mature age recruit is still crap. Neither strategy is flawed or 100% gospel, but it is all in the talent being drafted/traded for. Talent identification and, once in the system, player development are the keys to good recruiting. All successful teams have a combination of shrewd mature age recruiting as well as getting most of their ND U18 picks spot on - scribes are too busy espousing one philosophy over the other to suit their argument at that point in time, purely because they are so lazy they just want to categorise and generalise.

[F'scary]

Ok, thanks for that. How do you feel about the Roughy experiment down back?
I actually feel more confident with him than Cordy as a forward.....

Got me thinking. Our forward line is such a shambles that maybe we should try Roughead at full forward and...

try Cordy in a key position defence role...at Williamstown.

[GVGjr]

My point was that we were unwilling to sell the farm for him. Most here would have screamed murder if we had given away a first rounder or a young kid, yet I think Bazza in 2009 would have been the difference. It would have been a win win trade.


I agree that Eade always preferred the option of recruiting star players from opposition sides when they were a bit past their best or a bit on the nose at their current side (the likes of Akermanis and Hall). He would have never put together a deal like Wallace did for Eagleton and he would have been very careful looking at the deal you have proposed. In the end we couldn't roll the dice.
We also fell short for Walker but snapped up Sherman which was basically a direct swap for Harbrow.

I suspect McCartney won't be interested in recycled star players unless he can get them very cheaply preferring the "develop them our way approach".
This year he topped up with bargain types in Lower, Goodes, Stevens and Young and would be very much hoping we can gain long careers with the last two.

I'm not sure if there is ever a right way to trade for the bigger names but teams like the Hawks and Swans seem to out perform the competition with their approach.

[Ghost Dog]

Got me thinking. Our forward line is such a shambles that maybe we should try Roughead at full forward and...

try Cordy in a key position defence role...at Williamstown.

I don't know. Ideal if we had a Barry Hall to take the heat off him a bit. Big expectations on him, but probably another preseason away from finding his groove.
If we hadn't picked him, Saints would have had him at 13. Not sure they could have speeded up his development faster than we have.

[F'scary]

I don't know. Ideal if we had a Barry Hall to take the heat off him a bit. Big expectations on him, but probably another preseason away from finding his groove.
If we hadn't picked him, Saints would have had him at 13. Not sure they could have speeded up his development faster than we have.

I take it you are talking about Cordy. Sorry but he is a ruckman and should play about 30-50 games at Willi or Footscray (from 2014) and work his way into the side as a ruckman. Who knows - he might by that stage have the spin off benefit of being a threat in the goal square when being rested up forward.

[kruder]

Got me thinking. Our forward line is such a shambles that maybe we should try Roughead at full forward and...

try Cordy in a key position defence role...at Williamstown.


Surely Cordy is either a mobile ruckman or not an AFL footballer? I don't understand why the club persists with this forward ruck fantasy... It's beyond me that Minson, Cordy Rough and Campbell could be on the same list.

[jeemak]

Surely Cordy is either a mobile ruckman or not an AFL footballer? I don't understand why the club persists with this forward ruck fantasy... It's beyond me that Minson, Cordy Rough and Campbell could be on the same list.

It might have something to do with Minson only having four or so years left, and Roughead being the only member of the other three to have shown what might be called consistent potential.