Three Things I've Learned After the NAB Cup.

[westdog54]

Liam Picken will have his best season this year if Lower takes the tagging role to free him up. From all reports Cotchin was a non factor yesterday and I would love for Liam to get a chance to actually show the skills he possesses with ball in hand.
McCartney might make a few on here look silly with the Roughead to fullback move. Many including me have lambasted it but he seems to be growing into the role nicely and is making some very assured decisions and contesting well for a 23 year old defensive general.
Having Cooney and Morris back will be liking picking up two quality free agents. Its heartening to see them back in full flight. Here's hoping they stay fit and return to something even remotely resembling their All Australian best.


Feel free to add your own contributions. Doesn't necessarily need to be Bulldogs related.

I'm looking to make this a weekly feature after every round.

Make sure its something you've actually 'learned' and that youre not just rehashing the same old criticisms.

[LostDoggy]

1 - Cooney may have proved me wrong... I thought he was completely finished. But looks like he will be a factor this season.

2 - I couldn't see Morris getting anywhere near back to his best, but how dare i ever doubt the great man.

3 - I thought the 'changing of the gaurd' in terms of our midfield options would probably come next year, but Wallis, Libba, Smith, Dahlhaus look ready to impose themselves this year.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

1. Love at first sight is real: Jake Stinger, to quote myself in another post, “A player who can kick the goal he did, one of the all time great goals, showing intent to take the game on, incredible balance and focus, the ability to turn the contest from defence into attack and most of all the ability to be in traffic, left and right side skills, adjusting every step and body position with each movement and have incredible goal awareness and opportunism, all in his first possession in the game at the highest level means he can forge a career from the get go. If Tim Watson could do it from 15, Jake Stringer can do it from 19. “ Not to mention he was mid step when he change his weight from his right side to his left when he oriented himself to the goals and banged it left to right through the sticks. It was an awesome display of intent and instinct. It ranks in my memory of top Footscray goals, incuding Ted Whitten kicking a left foot goal over his shoulder running away from goals from a long way out in front of the grandstand at Western Oval, great long torpedo goals from David Thorpe and Bob Spargo, Steve Kolyniuk’s v. the filth, etc
2. I like the look of Lower and Koby Stevens in our colours.
3. Saw Ayce Cordy take a good grab.

[mighty_west]

1. All of the mature recruits are a huge positive, Lower as mentioned playing that hard tag role freeing up Picken, Stevens also with his toughness and slot nicely into the midfield, Goodes all class down back also a lock in for round 1 and Young showing enough to play a role down back if needed.

2. The Roughead experiment working well, Brian who? Also picking up Hrovat with that trade will add that extra class and speed in the midfield to compliment the blue collar workers beautifully, wouldn't be surprised if Lakeys body only see's him through another season after this anyway.

3. Even more convinced the types of players coming in with the style of gameplan will put us in good stead into the future and that harder edged style which will hold up in big finals games.

[Ghost Dog]

1. The worst scenarios often can go wrong ( Fremantle ) but often does not go wrong ( Richmond, Hawthorn )
2. It's a good thing to admit when you are wrong. ( myself, Jordon Roughead in the backline ). It allows us to tolerate the hardened opions of others with good humor, such as...
3. "Adam Cooney is finished." He's looking just fine.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Cq1_6gEQPys/UUVUaIMp-9I/AAAAAAAACAA/fmmX69maGrU/s320/Fullscreen+capture+3172013+100538+AM.jpg

Magnificent.
Just mark it son.

[AndrewP6]

Cooney just might have more to give. Hoping his output can remain.
Stevens and Lower look right at home. Seem to be good pickups.
Roughy could work at FB.

[G-Mo77]

McCartney might make a few on here look silly with the Roughead to fullback move. Many including me have lambasted it but he seems to be growing into the role nicely and is making some very assured decisions and contesting well for a 23 year old defensive general.



Yeah, think I was the same. Most times there will be a resting ruck (Vickery Saturday) so he's always got a match up. Not sure how he would go if he had to match up on say a Franklin, Kennedy or Walker. Being a defender is not an easy task and it's even harder in the current system. He's made some big strides very quickly so it's a great sign. Scarlett down there mentoring him has obviously been a big help.

[LostDoggy]

1. Recruiters so often get it wrong, and they got it wrong for a decade with Brett Goodes.

[always right]

Yeah, think I was the same. Most times there will be a resting ruck (Vickery Saturday) so he's always got a match up. Not sure how he would go if he had to match up on say a Franklin, Kennedy or Walker. Being a defender is not an easy task and it's even harder in the current system. He's made some big strides very quickly so it's a great sign. Scarlett down there mentoring him has obviously been a big help.

I think you might be underestimating Roughy. He played on Pavlich last week and whilst the more mobile forwards will be challenging, I think Roughy is capable of handling them as well as most.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

1.Greater depth with the recruiting of Stevens Goodes Lower Young and Stringer who should become regular senior players this year.
2. The return of quality players in Morris and Cooney plus Murphy to the forward line are pluses.
3. We are still to solve the problem of having reliable key forwards that can kick goals.

[Dry Rot]

1. We've done well with our mature recruits

2. Brisbane will be worth watching this season (and give us a hard time Rd 1)

3. Mick Malthouse could lose all his hair this season

[G-Mo77]

I think you might be underestimating Roughy. He played on Pavlich last week and whilst the more mobile forwards will be challenging, I think Roughy is capable of handling them as well as most.

I'm not underestimating him at all. I'm very impressed with the way he's going right now. He's had less than 12 months playing the role and already looks quite comfortable. Just because I'm not sure on how he'd go against the elite forwards doesn't mean I don't rate him. I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion from my post?

[Ghost Dog]

1. Recruiters so often get it wrong, and they got it wrong for a decade with Brett Goodes.

Well, lots on here thought pretty much the same thing!
How frustrating must it be for a VFL player who knows they can mix it with the best, but just can't get selected.

[bornadog]

Well, lots on here thought pretty much the same thing!.

I don't believe any one here questioned his ability, I certainly didn't. The questions were at the recruiters taking on a 29 year old compared to say another kid at this stage of our rebuild.

[craigsahibee]

There was one piece of play on Saturday that made up my mind on whether Goodes will be a good (see what I did there) pick up.

During the 3rd quarter the ball was in dispute in the middle of the ground and Goodes won the contested ball in tight environs and was able to find space to deliver into the forward line. That showed me that his awareness, distribution, ball winning ability and strength will go a long way to cover a lack of pace at the top level.

[LostDoggy]

I don't believe any one here questioned his ability, I certainly didn't. The questions were at the recruiters taking on a 29 year old compared to say another kid at this stage of our rebuild.

True. I'm glad they took the 29 year old, to be honest. We need what he's giving us at the moment, and his presence is going to help the kids we do have immeasurably.

[F'scary]

1. Recruiters so often get it wrong, and they got it wrong for a decade with Brett Goodes.

B Goodes should sue every AFL Club for negligence (in recruiting).

[always right]

I'm not underestimating him at all. I'm very impressed with the way he's going right now. He's had less than 12 months playing the role and already looks quite comfortable. Just because I'm not sure on how he'd go against the elite forwards doesn't mean I don't rate him. I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion from my post?

Wasn't suggesting you didn't rate him. I thought you were saying he might struggle on some of the more mobile forwards when you were actually questioning how he might go against the elite forwards.

[Mantis]

How frustrating must it be for a VFL player who knows they can mix it with the best, but just can't get selected.

To be fair Goodes always looked like he was content on being a VFL player.. at least going by body shape.

Credit to him for changing his ways.

[Ghost Dog]

I don't believe any one here questioned his ability, I certainly didn't. The questions were at the recruiters taking on a 29 year old compared to say another kid at this stage of our rebuild.

Bollocks. Don't make me go into the archives. :D

[GVGjr]

To be fair Goodes always looked like he was content on being a VFL player.. at least going by body shape.

Credit to him for changing his ways.

I suppose there are other players in the system like Goodes and Dickson that could make the transition if they commit themselves to doing the work.

[Ghost Dog]

To be fair Goodes always looked like he was content on being a VFL player.. at least going by body shape.

Credit to him for changing his ways.

He does have a fairly blocky torso doesn't he? Even now., being in fairly good shape.
It's like his torso is the same diameter all the way to his hips.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He does have a fairly blocky torso doesn't he? Even now., being in fairly good shape.
It's like his torso is the same diameter all the way to his hips.

I'm guessing he'd be very difficult to stop front on because of that reason. Very thick/strong as you said, probably moreso than his brother who as we know has that remarkable combination of strength and agility.

[Topdog]

Same thing I learn every year for me. NAB cup form means nothing. Lets hope Cooney and Roughy can contribute now that the real stuff starts.

[bornadog]

Same thing I learn every year for me. NAB cup form means nothing. Lets hope Cooney and Roughy can contribute now that the real stuff starts.

This ^^^

Do we really think Hawthorn losing all those games mean they won't be top 4 again.

[EasternWest]

Same thing I learn every year for me. NAB cup form means nothing. Lets hope Cooney and Roughy can contribute now that the real stuff starts.

Yeah.

There's been some optimism on this board of late, (and why not, if there are improvements) but I fear that might bite some if us in the bum when the season proper gets underway.

We will show some improvement, but realistically, we're not very good. That's just how it is.

I hope to see us compete, I'd like to see us win winnable games, and not get trounced so comprehensively over the course of games as consistently as last year.

I think we should prepare ourselves for a better yeah than last, but expect that we still won't be very good.

[Topdog]

I'm optimistic that both will perform just being cautious

[Ghost Dog]

Yeah.

There's been some optimism on this board of late, (and why not, if there are improvements) but I fear that might bite some if us in the bum when the season proper gets underway.

We will show some improvement, but realistically, we're not very good. That's just how it is.

I hope to see us compete, I'd like to see us win winnable games, and not get trounced so comprehensively over the course of games as consistently as last year.

I think we should prepare ourselves for a better yeah than last, but expect that we still won't be very good.

A pretty bleak assessment. Is that true? Or is it just our best and worst efforts are too far apart?
For such a young side, we're at about where you would expect.

[Topdog]

A pretty bleak assessment. Is that true? Or is it just our best and worst efforts are too far apart?
For such a young side, we're at about where you would expect.

Doesnt that last sentence just mean we aren't very good?

At this point in time only looking at the 2013 season I expect our best to not be good enough to challenge for a premiership and our worst to be bottom 3. Therefore for this season we arent very good.

I understand and accept the reasons for it but it doesn't change it.

[AndrewP6]

Doesnt that last sentence just mean we aren't very good?

At this point in time only looking at the 2013 season I expect our best to not be good enough to challenge for a premiership and our worst to be bottom 3. Therefore for this season we arent very good.

I understand and accept the reasons for it but it doesn't change it.

Spot on

[Ghost Dog]

Doesnt that last sentence just mean we aren't very good?

At this point in time only looking at the 2013 season I expect our best to not be good enough to challenge for a premiership and our worst to be bottom 3. Therefore for this season we arent very good.

I understand and accept the reasons for it but it doesn't change it.

Far out, the season has not even started yet! Might just jag a few more than expected

[jeemak]

Far out, the season has not even started yet! Might just jag a few more than expected

What's the basis of that though?

Are you saying we're going to improve at a greater rate than GC, GWS, Melbourne, Port or whoever? Or are you saying there's going to be other sides that drop off rapidly to increase the number of teams circulating around the bottom of the ladder?

Topdog's assessment is fair enough for mine.

[Ghost Dog]

What's the basis of that though?

Are you saying we're going to improve at a greater rate than GC, GWS, Melbourne, Port or whoever? Or are you saying there's going to be other sides that drop off rapidly to increase the number of teams circulating around the bottom of the ladder?

Topdog's assessment is fair enough for mine.

I'm saying you can't say 'we're no good' until we've seen how much Goodes, Lower, Stevens bring to the table.
Other teams might be better than last season, but so are we.

[Topdog]

Perhaps we have different definitions of good. For me top 6 is a minimum requirement for being a good side. I don't think we will have improved 10 spots on the ladder this season.

[LostDoggy]

I'm saying you can't say 'we're no good' until we've seen how much Goodes, Lower, Stevens bring to the table.
Other teams might be better than last season, but so are we.

I'm with you Ghost Dog. I don't really expect us to win many, but I'm keeping an open and optimistic mind, and whilst some might deride that viewpoint, it's better than the alternative.


Perhaps we have different definitions of good. For me top 6 is a minimum requirement for being a good side. I don't think we will have improved 10 spots on the ladder this season.

I have to disagree with that. Top 6 is a pretty tough standard for a team of youngsters, and being a good footy side doesn't always equate to ladder position. Last year's premiers finished third.

[EasternWest]

A pretty bleak assessment. Is that true? Or is it just our best and worst efforts are too far apart?
For such a young side, we're at about where you would expect.

I think we're not very good for mostly the reasons you've listed.

We've also got glaring holes in our setup (most notably a big, goal kicking forward) that contribute to our not-very-goodness.

I agree that for such a young side, we're about where you'd expect. But unfortunately, that makes us not very good.

That's not saying the future is bleak or without hope, just that for 2013 I'm keeping my win/loss expectations down. The big thing I want to see this year is a competitive effort from first bell to last. If we can achieve that, then with the young an inexperienced list we have, I will feel some measure of satisfaction.

As always GD, I appreciate the posotive view you take on things. It sometimes helps to remember to celebrate the good things, no matter how small.

Go Dogs.

[Topdog]

I have to disagree with that. Top 6 is a pretty tough standard for a team of youngsters, and being a good footy side doesn't always equate to ladder position. Last year's premiers finished third.

Well again for me it doesn't matter how young or old the team is. As I said before I understand and accept the reasons for it (not being good) but it doesn't change it.

We can certainly get excited about our youth and dream of the future but this year I feel we wont be a good side.

This is funny though as I thought I wasnt being overly pessimistic before

[westdog54]

Well again for me it doesn't matter how young or old the team is. As I said before I understand and accept the reasons for it (not being good) but it doesn't change it.

We can certainly get excited about our youth and dream of the future but this year I feel we wont be a good side.

This is funny though as I thought I wasnt being overly pessimistic before

Neither did I.

I'm beginning to regret starting this thread.

[LostDoggy]

Neither did I.

I'm beginning to regret starting this thread.

I wouldn't worry too much. The thread asked us to nominate things we'd learned from the NAB Cup for discussion, and seeing as we had a fairly successful preseason campaign — Fremantle aside — it was only inevitable that that discussion would start to centre around expectations for the year ahead. Some of us feel that we're showing real glimpses, others may feel it's only March and too early to get excited, but the discussion has been a pretty healthy one so far.

[Ozza]

I wouldn't worry too much. The thread asked us to nominate things we'd learned from the NAB Cup for discussion, and seeing as we had a fairly successful preseason campaign — Fremantle aside — it was only inevitable that that discussion would start to centre around expectations for the year ahead. Some of us feel that we're showing real glimpses, others may feel it's only March and too early to get excited, but the discussion has been a pretty healthy one so far.

Funny that you say we had a fairly successful pre-season campaign. We had the worst record - bar none - of the pre-season, bottom of the pre-season ladder.

But I know what you mean. We showed glimpses, got game time into new and young players - and were competitive with Hawthorn and Richmond in our two more 'genuine' outings. So I am fairly positive about the pre-season.

[Maddog37]

Not sure our agenda was to finish high on the ladder. Our agenda was to get game time into players that need it and stay in games longer. On that basis it was a success and thus using the ladder as a measure against other teams is meaningless to a degree.

[LostDoggy]

Three things I have learnt

Cordy will make it

Our recruiting is good

Nathan Hrovat will be my favorite player

[Topdog]

Not sure our agenda was to finish high on the ladder. Our agenda was to get game time into players that need it and stay in games longer. On that basis it was a success and thus using the ladder as a measure against other teams is meaningless to a degree.

Surely our agenda was to win matches?

Good to see the young guys though and such a shame that Stringer got injured.

[bornadog]

Surely our agenda was to win matches? .

I doubt it was on top of the agenda, maybe a low priority.

[Bulldog Joe]

Surely our agenda was to win matches?Good to see the young guys though and such a shame that Stringer got injured.

The NAB Cup agenda was definitely not about win/loss.

It was surely about preparation for the team to be more competitive in 2013.

[Bulldog Revolution]

The NAB Cup agenda was definitely not about win/loss.

It was surely about preparation for the team to be more competitive in 2013.

That said winning in the NAB cup is often good preparation for winning in regular season, and we need to learn how to win again

[jeemak]

That said winning in the NAB cup is often good preparation for winning in regular season, and we need to learn how to win again

I think the win against the Hawks will have a greater impact on the group than the loss against the Dockers.

We weren't fancied for either game in the media, and I doubt the side wouldn't have talked itself out of being competitive completely against the Dockers due to the strength and experience of the squad, the strength and experience of Fremantles, as well as the travel.

With the Hawks game we set ourselves to be competitive throughout the entire game and we came away with the points. They're the type of wins that mean something in the preseason.

[Ghost Dog]

The Dockers game went under the radar as it was played out of sight, only for our stoic WA fans to suffer through. Not even televised. We'll just forget about that one.....ahem.

[LostDoggy]

1.The NAB Cup is a fancy name for sponsored practice matches
2. We practised well, even in Mandurah
3. We won't truly know how we're going until we play real games

[Topdog]

I think the win against the Hawks will have a greater impact on the group than the loss against the Dockers.

With the Hawks game we set ourselves to be competitive throughout the entire game and we came away with the points. They're the type of wins that mean something in the preseason.

Yeah thats a good point